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Messages - bulmabriefs144

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391
Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« on: May 01, 2015, 05:23:45 am »
Ignore this troll. Supposedly Bern is a leech for having friends.

This unfortunately reflects something I've felt about myself all my life, that because I was scraping by, and needed food stamps, or that because I was close to my family versus being some full-time businessperson, that I was doing something inferior. But you know what? It's time to stop hating people for not  conforming to your narrow idea of success. In this world, there are people who make a living at a job outside their house. There are also people like authors and eBay sellers, that make money at their home. There are also people who make money through sex trade, not just through prostitution but through legal dating for pay sites. There are people like the Travelers (gypsies) who have no fixed home. There are religious groups that go door to door.

There are many realities of life. That Bern is somehow not facing reality because she doesn't sell out to your opinion of life... Of course, she needs to stop playing around and accept that swords can't block magic. Wonderful idea. Maybe you'd like to apologize when she gets burnt to a cinder because she refused to draw her swords because reality is that people compete and magic swords aren't real. Uhhh you're confusing reality show with reality. In a reality show, the winner of a contest wins a truck, and nobody else is considered. In reality, the loser of the contest might use their own methods to get a truck.

Now I'm gonna talk about change and growth. Bern has clearly been developing and growing through this entire battle. But because she hasn't adapted to this fighting you are unhappy. Not all change is desirable. You think it would be awesome to see her go all bloodthirsty but this isn't who she is, and this place is sick. Normal people fight to survive. Crazed people ruthlessly fight even people who are not a threat to them, like a big lawyer coming down hard on some small rural entrepreneur because country people don't deserve to be successful. She is making it work, so you rule it's a "cheat" because she couldn't possibly be successful without doing whatever method you think is the only approved one. Except she did. And she won. Give it a rest already.

In terms of change being bad, we routinely think being at the top of a corporate ladder is the  ideal of success. Is it? We have a small businessman who has work-life balance. He has the girl, he has a steady job, and he has friends and hobbies. There's an offer to go to the city where he would leave all of that behind for more money in the short term (but the job is highly competitive and will probably fire him later) so I assume as part growth and change he should naturally take the job according to you.

Bern is not a vampire or a leech. She is a decent person trying to remain a decent person in a climate that is void of decent people (like a person who believes in justice being surrounded by crooked lawyers).

392
Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« on: April 30, 2015, 03:57:34 am »
Unfortunately, the fact of the matter is, not only is she probably playing into their hands (firm resolve is probably where most of these thugs started) but there is nowhere she can go. What, you think leaving the scene will get them to leave her alone? No, they'd send enforcers after her to get her back. And if raw force failed, they might use trickery. Make her think she's safe but they bring the colosseum to her.

I'm not advocating she suck it up and put up with this. I'm saying she request to be taken off fighting duty. It may take a few more of these, but  ironically prison might be her way out. She is a hard worker, and would rather have done that, except Polly thought this was an easy fix. I don't blame Polly though.

The sad truth is that while she probably has leverage and warden could be challenged the same isn't true of Polly. Hell, Bern could probably even challenge the Warden for her freedom (the warden seems smarter than those chumps and might put up a fight). Actually this is what she should do, forgo prison and simply wager her freedom with the warden to get out of here fast. This would not be escaping but winning fair and square.

Unfortunately, Polly has a number of men and women to satisfy, plus more fighting. She'll have to leave Polly behind, at least temporarily in order to see Maytag.

393
Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« on: April 28, 2015, 04:34:20 am »
Or she's gonna get out by asking the warden if now that she's A Rank to transfer the rest of her marks to prison. Being fugitive means she'd be chased and such. That said she could probably ask the warden to challenge her fpr the rest of her marks, and given both her new popularity and her power he might be pressured to accept. If some of the strongest got beaten like chumps, it may be better for him in the long run. After a few rounds or her doing mostly guarding, he'd probably transfer her anyway if only to not have severed limbs all over the place.

The sword is not a deus ex machina. It isn't invincible and didn't come out of nowhere.  There are clearly defined traits of the sword, making it likely only as strong as her enemies attacks. If she just swings first, it's a normal sword, as we saw in the fight versus the staff guy. And its of no use if people outflank her and she can't block.

Magical items have traits that doesn't mean they are invincible. I have magical stones in a D&D campaign. They are overpowered, but by no means invincible. They give sorta pack tactics and creation once a day. I set them up in the story as shards of a larger stone which controlled reality. It has drawbacks, like  not being able to work if the party member is hit by a psychic attack (this turn) or while the target is affected by rage, insanity, or fear. It also only activates if the party takes advantage of it, because I seldom remember to apply it.

394
Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« on: April 27, 2015, 05:26:54 pm »
Aaand again, as always, Bernadette is rescued by another person.

She does not grow.
She does not adapt.
She does not face reality.

Someone else is again getting the coals from the fire for her (in the latest round it's first Warden who offers the "chance" without Bernadette doing anything to get (not even speaking of "earn" it), then it's Polly who pledges to pay the price for the "chance", now this time her father who shows up with the Deus-Ex-Machina-Sword).

I'm very interested in where this plot arc is going, so far I have no clue. The message so far merely is "Bernadette is carried through everything by other people".

You seem to have a very narrow idea of what reality is, then.  It is not simply your dog eat dog programming, it's all of this. And people can make whatever choices in life they wish.

As for the latter. All of us owes our lives to other people. Bern is honest about it. I mean, did you get that job without the teachers who taught you? You can work as hard as you with, but unless you have people to buy food and clothes from, the only way to not be naked is to sew your own. We can talk about "strength" and "independence" but it's crap. We owe our lives to our parents, we owe our happiness to our friends who support our dreams, we owe our jobs to our employers or clients. If you think you're perfect by yourself, you are kidding yourself.

Bern doesn't need to grow according to your standards. She is growing according to hers.

She doesn't need to adapt according to this place. It's a hellhole, if you get used to it, you're doing it wrong.

And yes, The Person Above Me. It is good to have friends. They make even a crappy place livable. Friends are people you can count on when you're in need, and you know they'll take your call.

395
Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« on: April 26, 2015, 07:28:19 pm »
Oh for pete's sake. What have these guys got to gain from this? If Bern hits them any harder, they're likely to die. Still, they're grabbing her legs, trying to yank the swords out of her hands, and just plain fighting dirty.

What's worse is that while the "death penalty" seems to be lifted for them, there is no guarantee that the same rules apply to Bern. So if she kills them, even accidentally, she will get penalized despite the fact that they just keep overexerting themselves.

They are probably promised freedom. But seriously, what freedom is worth another person's life? Seriously.

The thing is, he could not possibly disarm her. Why? Because of the nature of the swords.

When the swords hit the fist, the other sword glowed. In other words, the sword transfers the energy of the attack through the other sword. As in, a fireball shifts to the other sword. If he tries to disarm her, it's his strength being used. She's not lightening it, he's using his own strength against himself.

She needs to knock these two away, and then put a quick nonlethal end to the battle.

396
Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« on: April 23, 2015, 04:08:42 pm »
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Here is where I yell at *Bern* to remember that she's still in a fight, for Maytag's sake, move yer ass and kick some already.

That's debatable. He's still standing but as far as the crowd is concerned , they're beaten. He's just embarrassing himself against someone who doesn't want to hurt him, and probably could just ball-kick him. I think Bern would prefer it if he conceded, and they both moved on. 

And yes, it looks like it transfers energy into the other sword. When the two swords are crossed, it creates a feedback loop that cancels energy. Given how powerful that sword is, I don't think attacking him directly would be good if she wants to do a no kill principle. It would probably knock him across the room at the very minimum of pressure.

Update since new comic: Yeah... these guys are punks. Bern would prefer them all knocked out and challenging other people, they're stubborn, and won't give up until they hurt her or she seriously hurts them. He managed to bloody her face and that should leave a scab for awhile. She needs like shield effect, that can knock them away without having their blood on her hands. But this might end badly. 

397
Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« on: April 22, 2015, 04:39:20 am »
Oh I've one thing to add. I was watching Berserk, and was struck by the (seemingly unrealistic) pain tolerance. So I looked up about the berserk culture, and found an interesting video on the wiki (tvtropes of course). It was called the myth of on hit kills.

Basically, the body is a funny thing.  Some people can die from minor bullets. Some people can have freaking sword wounds from shoulder to heart and keep going until they win the fight, okay now I can die.  This is basically the effects of adrenaline. My point?

Well two things, she may not have killed them, so they could live on for awhile. Hopefully not coming back to bully her (hey it'd be great if she earned their respect and later they could stand up for her, but I'm not holding my breath), but that means that she wouldn't have the guilt to live with. This was a deathmatch so unless she was handicapped I think they wouldn't penalize her.
The second thing is, in battle you have to keep your guard up.  Big guy could try something cheap at the last second, either to hurt her, or disqualify her.

398
Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« on: April 20, 2015, 11:00:52 am »
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And that would be STUPID, as she's still in jail and has to work off her marks. If she revolts now, all she's going to accomplish is making things worse or getting herself killed. (The guards wouldn't have to restrain her. They could just label her a violent, and extremely dangerous threat and attack her from a distance with crossbows.)

Remember, this arena has been around a long, long time. They have measures in place to deal with riots and armed revolts. The best thing for Bern right now is to clear up her marks, get out of jail and then protest. There's no law against speech in this country.

Given what everyone just witnessed, I don't think that's happening. They may however try to sway public opinion against her, or neglect her (they don't HAVE to feed her).

That said, the public ummmm seems to be on her side. Even if they tried to call her a cheater, or act like a fake win, the audience wouldn't care.

Which brings up an interesting point. I don't know that Bern actually knows what to do with praise.

Everyone has some aspect of themselves that is dark. But for Bern, I think self-hatred is a priority over any hatred of the crowd. As far as the Healer, she was just angry. I think if called on it, she might have been unable to carry out her threat. Not sure though. I don't think I'd like to see her cruel or hateful, but I know what you mean, it's pretty stressful, and she may hurt lots of people without meaning to. Hopefully, she'll be able to live with herself when this is all over.

399
Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« on: April 18, 2015, 05:37:20 am »
Effectively, it's a rebound effect.

There are some things a clever caster can do to make her have trouble. And in a standard swordfight, she would still need to use all of her skill. I run D&D campaigns, and you can say that ability is unbalanced, or you can find a way the characters can counter it. Obviously, head-on magic attacks, is not the way.

Stuff like tying her legs down, yeah that seemed to work.

And yea, after alot of failure, depressive scenes, and other crap, it's nice to see Bern win like this.

400
Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« on: April 17, 2015, 05:11:55 pm »
Why is the old dude not butt naked like everyone else?
If we're doing this, we might as well go all the way and have wrinkly old man nutsack scrape all over the floor.

Thank you for that completely horrifying image. I will have nightmares forever.

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Well this is silly, the swords are doing all the work for her. All she has to do is block.

I suppose you'd still say that if you were in a cage match with three trained killers. Blocking is rather tough to do when you're outnumbered. I'm an amateur blunt weapon (usually staff) user. I know a few quarterstaff moves from watching people, and some sword skills, so I can technically fight "two sworded" with bamboo. I was at a farm and we were goofing off, and I could beat most of the other people fighting with bamboo in single combat, and block effectively. However, as soon as they came at me from two sides, dividing my concentration was pretty difficult, and I routinely got clobbered. This by the way was against kids less than half my age, meaning when it was just one, I could block and counter without hurting them seriously. From two directions, I lost to kids.

There is actually way more skill involved in blocking than attacking. Most people can win at chess by being hyperaggressive, but winning a game of the same where you simply counter all advances, and then "oh, checkmate" yea that's a bit harder.

Also, I think there is a learning curve to these swords. They do in fact operate on repulsion (yay, I was right!) but initially all they did was halt the force of the attack. What she's doing now is effectively pushing the attacks back with her own strength.

In all likelihood, the limit to the swords is her limit. As in, if someone were to use a continuous energy pulse (think force lightning from Star Wars), and keep solid pressure going, Bern might have trouble pushing back the attack. No, the swords aren't absorbing the energy, they are pushing stuff back.

These swords probably couldn't smash a wall. They are a defensive not offensive sword.  The reason these swords smashed, the reason the spells reflected?

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AttackReflector

The sword smashed because its own magically enhanced force rebounded.

The spells turned back because of the same.

Because of this, her enemies rather than being "high-level" (it wouldn't make a difference) either use nonmagical tricks (the extending staff may have been just a retractable staff with a taser attached) or have real weapon skill. It's like Inuyasha's Backlash Wave, it probably has a stronger effect the more powerful magic the attack, so ironicallly "high-level" attacks are precisely what opponents will avoid using.

Also, btw, these weren't unrecognizable effects. Bolo Girl used a razor wind effect, the old guy used a flame sphere.

401
Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« on: April 15, 2015, 06:22:57 pm »
And BOOM that's what we were waiting for.  As for Bern getting no character development, she has had tons.  She's being forced to go against her very nature as a pacifist and kill/maim to save not only herself but her friend.  She's also having to accept magic as a source of her current strength.  This is the perfect kind of development for Bern's character.

I agree for this reason and several others that have been hit upon.  I do, however, NOT think this match with the other two is  'won' already.  Brute force may not work on Bern's invincible blades.. but there are MANY ways around the 'blade'.. the other two should be interesting fights.. as they will also have to 'dig-deep' to fight in new and unorthodox ways.

Classically, the way to counter antimagic is to alter the environment around them. A direct attack can be negated, but heating up the air, or removing the land via earthquake means things get uncomfy for the person, and they might be defeated anyway from stuff just being generally unpleasant.

She just sliced chunks of flesh though.

402
Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« on: April 14, 2015, 06:25:12 am »
Wait, isn't an I-beam this?



http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=2481

That is pretty clearly not an I-beam.

403
Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« on: April 13, 2015, 06:19:21 am »
I also think about now (after he gets up from getting thrown across the room when she pushed forward and sliced his sword), they'll probably switch to a gang-up approach. Him trying to brawl punch her, the others lobbing various types of magic. I assume with her name being Blue Fire she has something more in her bag of tricks than just the rope stuff.

404
Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« on: April 13, 2015, 06:08:13 am »
Linked so I don't have to go back and forth.

http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=2515

Why is the sword splitting like it's made of stone? It sorta reminds me of working backstage in theatre where something is painted to look like wood but is actually foam. (Hint: stone smashes into blocks when cut by something sharp, metal and glass tend to form jagged edges)

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He's A rank because he doesn't have enough control or finesse. He has enough strength and brute force for S-rank, but if he actually wields it, he would kill his opponent.... except now that Bern has the swords of Split Rose.

I suspect he's also A/S rank because he's a brute without a weapon. In all likelihood, holding back means he normally fights sans I-beam. He can probably do the same thing with his bare fists to lesser extent, make a heavy/light punch.  That said, he'd probably have a better chance trying to punch her as himself instead of relying on magic to boost him. But he strikes me as an idiot so I suspect this won't dawn on him.

I suspect at least a panel next comic of complete and utter shock.

405
Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« on: April 11, 2015, 07:43:28 am »
I have to admit I'm a little disappointed that Bern appears to have to go through basically no character growth so far. She just sort of gets handed magic weapons that will let her win the fight.

I'm reserving total judgement until I see how this plays out, but I think this particular arc has left a lot to be desired so far.

I remember in college, a guy from my drama class was convinced that if a character wasn't completely different, the writer hadn't done their job. I wasn't sure I agreed. Now I know I don't.

A character can be made one-dimensional (that character is "evil/good", that character is their job title like a guard or smith, that character is pretty/ugly, basically they can be summed up in a single word) or flat, two-dimensional or have personality (basically you choose a list of traits, and the character is basically the sum of their traits), or three-dimensional (they act like a real person you would meet on the street rather than a persona, they have flaws, they have pain, they may have addictions or moments of darkness) and "well-rounded". Now, being one-dimensional isn't always a bad thing provided the character is minor, likewise, a story is said to be really good if minor characters are at least two dimensional. Likewise, unless you are doing a melodrama, the hero of the story should not come across as one-dimensional, as people will accuse you of bad writing.

Among fully fleshed out characters, there are two distinct and equally valuable character types. The static character and the dynamic character.

The static character, despite their name, actually can undergo character development along the course of the series, but they tend not to. That is, a static character has character development as an optional feature. Bern is a static character. A good example of this tye would be Naruto, he spends over half the show talking about how he won't take back his words, that is his ninja way. Character development on his part is extremely subtle, and he simply adds character rather than changing any of his current ways (he still won't do this or that because of his ninja way, but gradually learns to trust his comrades and not try to do everything himself).

The dynamic character, undergoes character development frequently, changing gradually from one person to another. They are not afraid to let go things that aren't working for them, and massively revamp their personality. Maytag is a good example as she started out deadpan, and then became the mask, and is expected to change even more. A good anime example of this  is Luke from Tales of the Abyss, starting out as a nice jerk, becoming just a jerk, realizing the error of his ways, then he finds out he's a clone, then gradually becomes a proper hero.

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I guess it's fair to just assume that beambro is a seasoned veteran and wouldn't do such a rookie mistake just like we just accept that the "split rose" is the "ultimate defense technique" even though it probably doesn't make much sense in a real fight in which lots of sword "clang clang" never really happens.

Do we in fact know this? Maybe he's a person who has gotten by on a heavy weapon and using gravity-self magic. Sort of like if you have wolverine-style healing, and something hits you that can't be healed, you wouldn't normally be good at dodging, because you would be expecting to shrug it off (wolverine, oddly enough being an exception, because despite being night-immortal is also a seasoned fighter). Bern on the other hand, has had plenty of experience in all types of combat, and knows when to get out of the way and when to try to block. She uses a style that requires studying the enemy rather than just slashing people down. It seems to me, that she is the seasoned warrior, he's just a big thug with a big sword. Especially given that his attacks leave openings all over the place, and after being blocked, his first instinct is to just do a big overwhelming downswing. Oh yea, the other stuff worked so well, let's try the same tactic. If he was a seasoned warrior, he would try to disrupt her balance by attacking the ground or something (we know the sword can disrupt direct attacks, but maybe not shock waves or indirect stuff).

I was thinking this as well, but the problem is, that sword isn't a tiny bokken, so any feint would require teamwork with the others.

406
Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« on: April 07, 2015, 06:17:42 am »
So... why didn't berns dad just visit her to tell her how to use those incredibly complicated weapons she doesn't know what they do?

If I was in jail for threatening someone and my dad gave me a custom AK to use in the daily deathmatches to get out of there and I have never fired an AK, only pistols and it's a weird, mutant AK that I'm not even sure what it does if I pull the trigger so I can only apply my pistol knowledge in a vague way that may or may not apply, you'd think he'd tell me how to use the custom safety, how to load the thing properly, what not to do with it etc. because it's his weapon, he knows everything about it.
In fact I'd probably not use the darn thing at all in a situation with exactly 0 room to fuck around.
I'd stick with what I know works, even if the weapon is "better" cause it's worthless and dangerous if I don't know exactly how to use it.

Grant seems pretty chill about his daughter fighting those incredibly dangerous dudes with his weapons that she knows nothing of.


Uhhhh, this was answered in the comic itself. She already knows how to use this. Because it's part of the sword style she's mastered and learned all her life. Unlike magical items, this seems to work automatically so it's closer to "here's a bazooka, pull the trigger" to someone already trained in lifting heavy stuff. They just hoist the bazooka, aim and pull it. It looks like aside from blocking she's giving virtually no effort on this.

That said, to win she's gotta find an opening. And at least finish him before the others pull more tricks on her. 2 on one, when the two are effect users, not as hard as 2 effect users, and one physical threat.

407
Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« on: April 03, 2015, 08:06:09 am »
Welp, she's doing a good job of blocking.

And a very good job of making him look like a chump.  ;D

Uhhh, guys, weren't you supposed to be ummm "killing her"? Far from that, he hasn't given her a scratch.

That said, as long as she stays doing what she's doing, and isn't cocky, I doubt he could give her one. She's a good swordswoman, and she's got a weapon that can stand up to him, the most he could do is hurt her arm or something with powerful blows. But given that she's now blocking one handed, I'm not sure that's an option.

I think this sword operates based on repulsion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repulsive_force

If someone cast a fire spell, normally, all you could do is counter it. Form a barrier, or using an opposite effect. In the opposite effect, this would be using water or ice against fire (real science says you would need to watch for a steam explosion too). In the case of a barrier. Most barriers operate on a constructed field that enough pressure can break. It doesn't look like this is operating that way, however. In fact, it doesn't look like she is being magically drained, or expending any real effort. She's just blocking, and the sword is pushing the blade back (it doesn't look like it, but the entirety of the force is going pfffft). It's not a force shield, so much as the sword is exhibiting targeted repulsion. If someone cast the above flame spell, a force field would last until heat destroyed it. A heat repulsion sword would simply bounce the heat off.

408
Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« on: March 30, 2015, 02:57:46 am »
Huh. That's interesting.

Best I can understand about these swords is that they're magnetic, and they work together by generating a force field by having a mixed positive/negative charge (that is, they are alternating versus all positive or negative on one side, so they create an energy field rather than attraction). This is a visible electromagnetic field rather than the other sword's power.

http://engineering.mit.edu/ask/why-can%E2%80%99t-magnetism-be-used-source-energy

I'm thinking less "power stealing" and more "power draining". He probably can't use the sword again.

409
Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« on: March 28, 2015, 06:06:56 am »
I remember there was a law of physics that said that an object (say, a glass of water) was equally broken on the floor and on the edge of the table, that until momentum/gravity/other forces were applied, it would always be between those states.

The swords are antimagic, because they are made from something that is magic in the original sense. If the "magic" here is a type of science, these swords have the power to suspend all of it, by operating on some principal that is beyond science. The other stuff is fake, these swords can somehow dismiss them as such. Since most magic operates under effects that can be produced through science, this effectively protects against everything that the qualia can project; logically, this has a kitchen sink effect against a very wide range of effects.

Let's give an example above. If you sliced this with the sword, the glass, besides whatever wounds the sword produced, there would be no effects of gravity or momentum. It would be on the floor, but it would be whole. It maintains the original cause of how it got from A to B (you knocking it off), but removes all forces applied in the process.

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Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« on: March 27, 2015, 06:04:23 am »
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So.... heh we have an eye opener here...

This seems to mean to me.. IF the source of magic here is the nanites... what they have done..I can only assume physics-wise... the swords are a nano-colony that is dormant until the two swords are used in hand together... the nanites communicate this as the key to do what they are supposed to do.. for the wielder of the swords. 

I personally don't believe the sword is "magic".

I believe Bern's sword works by being a substance which is intrinsically toxic to the Qualia (yes, remember them?) or which when used together, produces a shockwave (think EMP) that kills nearby Qualia. If the former is true, the substance could very well be something way more atomically dense than say steel, but light like aluminum.

Also, kudos for this scene. Given how Mister Lobster has been dragging his feet on narration, I fully expected a Naruto-style flashback of Bern's life without any resolution to this, and have a part 3 showing her block it.  ;D Okay, that would be terrible.

As it is, this short "goodbye everyone" followed by an Oh Crap moment. The expression on their faces is classic.


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Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« on: March 25, 2015, 05:32:57 pm »
Ugh, we've got an issue here.

If it were a side swing, the magic cancellation effect would indeed rip his arm off.

However, a downward swing, if the cancellation hits, I would imagine this would become heavy at exactly the wrong moment. Or... someone help me out here with the physics. Would it pull him off balance?

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Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« on: March 20, 2015, 03:39:04 pm »
Welp, her legs are pinned. She's dead now.  ;D

Okay, I'm trolling a bit. She's got a few things left to try. Tricky old man, though.

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Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« on: March 18, 2015, 09:54:56 pm »
But many things are force in a way that isn't readily apparent.

Violence is force because it forces people to die, or it forces (through threat) people to do as you want. A bar room brawl isn't inherently about force unless it can be proved something coercive about it was intended (i.e. "you take that back", "make me", brawl starts). Rape would technically also qualify (forcing sex).

Stealing might be fine (as long as it is slight of hand, and not armed robbery), because while someone is technically giving you something without their knowledge but you are not consciously attempting to force them to do anything. Taking a loaf of bread, a baker might need to count it as a loss because forcing them to pay would be a crime.  :'(

The statement about the force is interesting. Bern can't dodge anymore if this is true, and she hasn't nerve to fight right now, but maybe another tactic. If she could find the nerve even to block, these swords (if they're all they are cracked up to be) might cancel midswing, doing an Izuru Kira (Bleach) imitation.  That said, we have no idea how these things work. But if she does manage it, it might be interesting to see how things play out in all its gory detail.

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Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« on: March 15, 2015, 09:12:00 pm »
Oh my.  :o Thanks for pointing that out (well, there's also imprisonment).
And remember, Polly decided that only violent insane people would choose torture.

She's not a warrior though. She's a would-be knight.

The D&D equivalent of what this group is, would be closer in terms of code of conduct to paladins (you saw how her superiors basically flipped out about her being lesbian). Rigorous moral standard, and so on, and so on. Let's say she did get it together, and plowed through doing whatever would let her win at all costs. What would someone with her temperament do? Commit suicide. Immediately. Forget being a lesbian, doing something that would disgrace who she was, yeah pretty much be unable to handle the day to day if she did keep alive. You think she's bad right now? Let's say she ummm went crazy berserk and tore them apart? Would she trust herself to get near another soul again? Nah, more likely she'd just stick herself in a corner and talk to herself or something, being frightened literally of her shadow.

(This movie preview from about 1:10 onward)

At the end of the day, Bern needs to be able to live with herself.

She needs to fight, yes. But she needs to fight cleaner and better than her opponents, to fight as she is. Basically, make them look like complete chumps without killing them. Which, as hard as this situation is, is even harder. That doesn't mean she can't do some "disarming" though.

415
Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« on: March 14, 2015, 05:09:31 am »
You might have something there, maybe the Warden has an inkling as to what the swords can do and wants to force Bern into a position where she -must- block or Polly gets squished?  Would also be a situation where Bern could discover what the swords do together as a pair.

My theory is that the Warden recognised Bernadettes ability, but also her weakness: Innocence.

Bernadette lives the live of a fighter, but has found a way to maintain her innocence in it. She has a code that goes way beyond a usual Knight's Code of Honor, she is basically a pacifist with swords.
Her entire fighting technique reflects that. Be passive. Be evasive. Do not risk. Do not become guilty.

But if you are against a foe you cannot win othervise, you must risk. You must seize a moment. In the right moment, in that split second, you do not need to be innocent, passive, concerned, you must act, dash forward, take the price. Shut out the thoughts and the concerns, shut out passivity. It is impossible for Bernadette to do that, she rests in herself - this is good, but not for a fighter.

But as I said it goes beyond this: with her style Bernadette also does not risk to become "guilty" in any way. She does not risk having to kill a feo. She fights, but the killing? That do others, people who fight with her and are more rash. She does not risk doing something morally questionable, does the other person deserve death, no matter this fight? Maybe, maybe not. Bernadette has no problem, she stays back.
To use something visual: In her profession she might get literally her hands bloody but her whole fighting style is there to minimise the chance to metaphorically get her hands bloody (funny inversion of how it usually goes).

If Bernadette wants to unlock her maximum potential - and thus her ability to survive as much as she can; something she needs here in this arena - she somehow has to lose a part of that innocence. She has to understand she won't make it with her full conscience intact, that while she is a good person, she has to do bad things if her profession is a fighter and if she wants to survive.

Warden offers her that before she puts her in a fight where she a) needs to use it for b) the price to have a perspective to get out of the arena.
Polly takes away all offers from Warden. The offers all have one thing in common (as was pointed out already): they make Bernadette suffer through unfair hardship without killing her. In short: They take a part of innocence and leave a black mark where it was, so Bernadette must come to peace with that black mark. This can then fuel the power she needs for her chosen profession.
Polly gets Bernadette into the arena without all that.

What is left here where Bernadette can "suffer, but not death. Lose something that leaves a black mark on her soul". There is only one thing left. Polly.

I think this is at least what Warden thinks and I find it possible that when Warden starts talking next she will make Polly understand, which leads to Polly "doing all she has to do protect Bernadette". She'll dash in a sacrifice herself. Being killed in those cirumstances? Yes, totally is on par with the options that were offered to Bernadette.

I can't read all of this because I'm on a touchphone and the superbig keyboard and supersmall lettering is eating the page.

You guys all agree that innocence is a weakness. Okay, story time.

This reminds me of something my dad told me about his father in law. Much like the song Rude, he wanted the daddy's blessings. Her dad however dismissed him as someone who was a "dreamer" who didn't know about how life could be cruel (my mom basically worked herself through college, probably because he was a jerk and wouldn't pay). Trust me, he knew, he even told me as much.  I know. All of us know. But... unlike this (ahem, a-hole) he seemed to know that life could be better. He wanted to be a priest because he wanted to work for a better world. A world where people Didn't Have to bloody their hands on a regular basis.

Bern didn't just choose  this path because it was easy. In fact, she was willing to break even her vow of fidelity (yes, reread the comic, bern and may swore they wouldn't cheat on each other, meaning the one option that she could pick was B, not A). She willingly gave up her dream as a knight btw, so the whole safety and innocence bit is not really valid (I dunno if you mentioned safety, but you seem to be under the impression that her life until now has been soft choices). Bern would want a world where Polly doesn't have to go through what she's about to. But she does. The one thing she can do for Polly is keep her request to not sink to the level of these people. She doesn't need a lesson in brutality, in fact she'd rather die a hundred times over than become the sort of crazed person the crowd and her target seems to be. If you think she's weak for that, well... can't say much to you.

Bern has not given up, she is still fighting, as a knight, not a common fighter. She's studying her opponents, and if she can win, she will. That said, this big overhead swing looks a bit ominous.

416
Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« on: March 11, 2015, 09:06:51 pm »
She needs to do a Kenshin Himura and jump atop the blade.  ;D

Sunphoenix is right, also, the problem with a heavy weapon like that is that every swing fully commits you to following through so if he swings right, it moves all the way right. Bern doesn't really need to commit, she can bob and weave, feeling him out until she has a good sense of him.

Just hope he doesn't drive her into a corner.

She doesn't necessarily have to be aggressive, so much as face him in a way that isn't head on. Sidestep, and strike so force doesn't matter.

(From Chapter 42)


Going back to my point: How this will be achieved? What must Bern do to reach your point without the martial prowess? These people want blood. They're animals, basically, though the warden is at the least giving Bern a tiny chance. Bern has to win, or at least fight like mad to gain their so-called "respect"...

(Backtracking a bit from the fight proper, but as there's only so much you can say about a giant beam of metal) While we're talking about proving herself... why does she need to prove anything to these jerks? She doesn't know them, she doesn't identify with them (dyed-in-the-wool pacifist, and the "fans" are all bloodcrazed), and couldn't care less if they are impressed with her, she just wants to get out of here alive.

She went out with the intention of saving a loved one. Got no help (on the contrary everywhere she went, people demanded money and resources she didn't have) until finally frustrated she's like "look, do it or else", so she got jailed.

Someone criticized her for letting Polly take 10x. Ummm, yea, not much she could do to stop her. She was emotionally pushed into a wall. She had three or four monstrous choices, and by the time she got around to choosing, her friend takes that away from her. And if she tried to take responsibility, her friend basically told her "nuh huh, whatever you do, I'll outbid you, so you're just hurting me." So yea, she's in a situation, where she can't seem to push out, and now she's in a battle where she doesn't see an opening.  That she's even in this battle and doesn't say "forget it, keep me in here forever, I'm not fighting" takes some nerve. But unless she can find some gap in her enemies or in this situation, she's pretty screwed. It was good that she managed to get those swords, even if it wasn't her doing.

Basically, she needs breathing room what she can just look at the issue of how to counter this fighter, and bounce back from all of this.

417
Flipside Discussion / Re: Intermission 30: Special Voting Thread!
« on: February 24, 2015, 06:49:36 am »
I'm actually more interested in Crest.

Maytag with likely get through her fear, possibly offscreen, only explaining in flashback how she did it. I don't see her as being a "dedication" type, but I do see her as having a great deal of drive for the short haul. That said, she might just say "#*%$ it" to an effort that is getting her nowhere, ask for her dimension bag back and leave. May would probably be my first choice, though, I'm just picking Crest to have a change of pace.

Based on what we know of Bernadette, based on what I know of the reality of this world as explained by Thin Man, I have a good theory of what happens next (now that I say this, our creator will likely try to Joss said theory). We know that the world isn't actually as it seems, that monsters called Qualia maintain the illusion called magic. We know that these swords are somehow toxic to magic, but if magic doesn't exist, this means that antimagic is not actually a type of magic (as in the sword is not "enchanted" with magic destruction, so the original assessment of it being a sort of "hypocrisy" might be off), but rather an energy (the swords might operate on a sort of EMP burst that shocks Qualia) or substance that allows the user to see the world or touch the world of the Qualia, possibly slashing them in midair or something.

Now, Bernadette could try hard to be something she's not, overcoming the "coddling" as the warden says. But I don't think she's gonna fight in the conventional sense anyway. And I think she is fine as is, actually at an advantage because she feels guilty and depressed.

Let me explain. Remember how with one sword, she was unable to block magic? It was because she was actively trying to survive. She was also because of that seeing the world as a world of magic. That is, she was actively playing by the rules of such a world. On the other hand, here, her feelings are raw and honest, and rather than a survival instinct, she will fight exactly according to her style. That is, she is in the right mindset to attack something besides conventional enemies. Which brings us to Bern's character.

Bern has a direct, functional style of sword fighting, more suitable for slashing objects or killing monsters, than cutting at humans. It is the same style she should be using to view the world, as something that is just a smoke and mirrors to be cut apart, revealing the truth. Normally, her survival instinct would kick in, as I say, and she'd be like "I've gotta survive against the magic/weapons etc." Instead, she is like "I don't care." Because or this, she can actually unconsciously transcend the "magic" of the Qualia and start to notice things don't add up.

Now, on the other hand, we have the three thugs she's against. As the warden said, these three have probably had this very drive to survive. Where has this led them? Well, naturally, they learned any techniques they could to win. That is, cheap tricks. Their power is based on magic, on smoke and mirrors, on appearing to have an edge. For most people, yes, the warden would be right, and she would lose. But she is wielding the exact best weapon against such things. The truth. The first one True Strike, is probably rather strong, but it looked like his sword in the last comic was possibly either getting his own magic boost (something like a Bless Self spell) or was itself a magic sword. Low Blow sounds like his fighting style is like Maytag's, using magic weapons and tools to quickly get the drop on people. And the Blue Fire sounds like a straight up mage.

In all likelihood, how this would go down, assuming she figures out how to properly use the swords? An embarrassing curb stomp battle, possible ending with all opponents completely disarmed and Bern walking away without having spilled a drop of blood.

Yea... as satisfying as that scene might be, that was alot of buildup for what might be little actual fighting.

In a side note, that was almost more padding and filler than the Naruto anime series.   

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