Author Topic: Chapter 33: Discussion  (Read 13682 times)

charles

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Re: Chapter 33: Discussion
« Reply #30 on: June 19, 2012, 01:36:37 am »
Well... I guess May has always been on a journey of self discovery, finding out what makes her happy in life.

For years she simply didn't know until she developed her first childhood friend and came to the realisation that she enjoyed forming positive relationships with people.  Then she discovered the joy of deeper, stronger relationships with committment such as that with Xenfer and her current one with Bern.  But for those, and to people in general, she'd been lying to a good extent and while those relationships made her feel good, she felt bad for the guilt at lying and decieving.  Now she's discovered a rush for honesty where the pressure and guilt of holding together the lies is lifted off her for what is usually a temporary jolt of pain that resolves into a deeper connection with those she reveals them to.

Really, Maytag is all about making herself happy and just as she said to Regina, she's still discovering the many things in life that make her happy.

EDIT:
WAIT!!! All she said was that she would reveal something very personal.  She does say on the next page that its something she thinks Regina deserves to know, but maybe we're off track on thinking it has to be something that relates so directly to Regina.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2012, 02:28:42 pm by charles »
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Azure Priest

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Re: Chapter 33: Discussion
« Reply #31 on: June 20, 2012, 05:30:11 am »
"I was really born as a man, but as a result of failed sorcery experiment(s), I became a woman, AND I LOVE IT!"

Kiran

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Re: Chapter 33: Discussion
« Reply #32 on: June 21, 2012, 12:20:32 am »
So it's about wanting to eat Regina out after all :P
So May indeed still loves her judging from all this blushing and secrecy rather strongly, Bern doesn't know about it, also that last panel look...
We need them to get reunited, I kinda want Polly to meet May and see how that would play out.

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Re: Chapter 33: Discussion
« Reply #33 on: June 22, 2012, 04:54:17 am »
Hmm.  Well May's enjoying her honesty.  But, we see her back away.  SHE might be able to resist for Bern's sake.  But could it have been a mistake telling Regina?  Can the new, somewhat bolder Regina resist? 

charles

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Re: Chapter 33: Discussion
« Reply #34 on: June 23, 2012, 01:40:43 am »
I'm pleased at how May has expressed her feelings here.  She hasn't gone right into the sexual side strongly but much more the emotional.

I don't quite know how Regina will take this.  I don't think she'll be angry but maybe a little confused about how she should respond or feel.
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Kiran

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Re: Chapter 33: Discussion
« Reply #35 on: June 25, 2012, 12:54:43 am »
Regina's reaction is kinda cute, especially that 4th panel how she touches her lips...
She wants it bad, or I'm reading it wrong ^^

But May doesn't consider herself as bisexual?
Or at least she doesn't limit herself as one, so she is pansexual then?
Or maybe it's the other way around and she's asexual who takes her partners sexuality into consideration and mimicks them for that pleasure factor?

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Re: Chapter 33: Discussion
« Reply #36 on: June 25, 2012, 08:59:44 am »
Not bisexual? .... Is she Omni-sexual like Capt. Jack from "Dr. Who" and "Torchwood?"

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Re: Chapter 33: Discussion
« Reply #37 on: June 25, 2012, 11:02:13 am »
Honestly this whole "reveal" seems (and is by her own admission) incredibly selfish.  I mean, realistically what are Regina's options here with this information?

-She could be totally in love with Maytag and believe this is Maytag reciprocating (which Maytag is then not able to do because of her recent vow of monogamy with Bern)

-She could not feel the same way and be flattered but ultimately uninterested (this is probably ideal, assuming this route leads to her not feeling awkward).

-She could not feel the same way and then become awkward around Maytag, second-guessing any and all of Maytag's kindness (which is a sad but true thing that happens, someone admits feelings and suddenly everything they have ever done, and will ever do, is seen in a different light).

I'm sure there are more but most possible outcomes that I can think of are either negative or neutral as far as Regina goes, with the only person standing to gain anything being Maytag.  I know it's a personality thing but I've never been comfortable advocating for sharing information without having a purpose other than "it makes *me* feel better."

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Re: Chapter 33: Discussion
« Reply #38 on: June 25, 2012, 12:29:00 pm »
Maytag's eyes look strange when she gazes at Regina.  Perhaps the water is enchanted?

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Re: Chapter 33: Discussion
« Reply #39 on: June 25, 2012, 09:45:53 pm »
Maytag's eyes look strange when she gazes at Regina.  Perhaps the water is enchanted?

A bit huh... it's difficult to say.

In the latest panels her eyes are very clear though. I don't think she's under any enchantment.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2012, 11:55:06 pm by akashayi »

Kiran

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Re: Chapter 33: Discussion
« Reply #40 on: June 26, 2012, 05:19:56 am »
So indeed it's pansexuality, basically May wants to sleep with anyone she is friends with and/or finds interesting as best way to maintain the positive feelings between them...

Really Bern I feel so sorry for you, I really doubt that keeping such free bird in monogamous cage bound by love will ever work...

I wonder when our two love birds will realise fully that the relationship between them will never work exactly due to May and also Bern nature, I kinda doubt that May will be ever comfortable in longer time with such restriction to be bound to one partner, or I really doubt that Bern would stand any longer way being with May if she would give her green light to do it with other people.

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Re: Chapter 33: Discussion
« Reply #41 on: June 26, 2012, 08:12:28 am »
I've been thinking about this since last night, and it really strikes me as a pretty emotionally shallow outlook from May; it also raises some questions I have that I would love to know her stance on.

For starters, in her mind, what makes her relationship with Bern different than her (desired) relationship with everyone else?  Like, if in her ideal world she shares all types of intimacy with everyone who she cares about, then what is the point of even having a "set apart" relationship with Bern? Is it just that she loves Bern "more" than she loves other people? 

I guess what confuses me is that she's admitted that she basically wants to be with Bern but have the freedom to connect physically with others (an open relationship like what Umber has), but if what she's saying in this page is really true, then what's the point of the "relationship" part with Bern?  What makes it Bern different than being just another person that Maytag loves and wants to experience both physical and emotional intimacy with?

Also, what about people to whom she isn't physically attracted?  Does that mean she feels she can never have a truly deep relationship with them?  Obviously it's a comic, particularly one drawn in a certain style, so I doubt we'll have much interaction with people who aren't physically attractive (outside of the priestess Varja or Vajra or whatever in Bloody Mary's town), but what about people who aren't conventionally attractive?  Does she really find every single conceivable body type and physical appearance to be something she would want to experience physical intimacy?  Does this mean she believes you can never truly be close to family members (as I assume [perhaps wrongly] that she does not feel the desire to experience physical intimacy with her family members, although to be fair she lost her mother when she was young and had no other family that she's ever spoken of, so maybe she does think you can't ever really be close to your family)?

TL;DR version - I'm really not trying to nitpick or anything, I'm just genuinely curious how Maytag defines relationships.  The idea that all relationships are, or should be, all or nothing seems really emotionally shallow and inflexible to me.

Yeti

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Re: Chapter 33: Discussion
« Reply #42 on: June 26, 2012, 01:00:10 pm »
I'll try and handle some of these questions for you. I'll also handle them out of order, because I laugh in the face of coherency. First then, Maytag's reveal here (and as mentioned a few posts up) is that she's a pansexual (though it seems very out of character for her not to know the word for it somehow). This means that she's attracted to personality, or as she puts it, people she likes. Ergo physical attraction no longer matters, if she likes it then she wants to get intimate with it. Potentially societal norms have prevented her from being able to feel attraction for family members, but to be honest given Maytag's character I wouldn't be too surprised if she'd tap them.

Umber has a little more than an open relationship, Umber has a polyamorous relationship. The difference being that whilst open relationships allow for physical contact with others, polyamorous relationships allow you to start up relationships with other people as well as the physical contact. This would be Maytag's dream, to be able to have relationships with as many people as she likes in absolutely any capacity she likes. Bern however wants her to only experience both physical and (more seriously) emotional relationships with her alone.

To Maytag, Bern is the most important person in the world - desire to be intimate with everyone she likes doesn't result in liking people equally. Bern is hurt by the idea of Maytag having a polyamorous relationship due to her own personal philosophies and Maytag feels she owes it to Bern to not hurt her. So the relationship is 'set aside' for Bern's sake, despite it being far from Maytag's ideal. If Bern was able to give Maytag her poly relationship, then given the right people came along then Maytag could develop emotional bonds comparable perhaps to those she has with Bern.

One imagines this as an idea is something that might scare Bern as a concept. What Bern is (hypothetically) missing however is that every bond Maytag makes is going to be different. Bern, and the bond Maytag has with her, is unique. As is every single other bond Maytag has. Consequently Bern couldn't just be replaced.

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Re: Chapter 33: Discussion
« Reply #43 on: June 26, 2012, 03:07:08 pm »
Needs more Crest...

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Re: Chapter 33: Discussion
« Reply #44 on: June 26, 2012, 06:10:14 pm »
I was planning to have some Crest scenes in this chapter, but I realized I can't, because chronologically his scenes can't happen while this bath is happening.  (Bern's next scenes can't either, hence why there's very little of her.)  So I decided to get this whole Maytag part out of the way first.  Crest has some really important scenes coming up soon, so he'll start getting a lot more page time.  I'm planning on having that start next chapter, though we'll have to see how that will fit with Bern's events happening soon.

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Re: Chapter 33: Discussion
« Reply #45 on: June 27, 2012, 03:03:14 am »
Regina looks super comfortable.
I'm sure she's glad to know this!

charles

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Re: Chapter 33: Discussion
« Reply #46 on: June 27, 2012, 05:24:09 am »
I'm a fence sitter on the Bern VS Maytag relationship stance.  Really I can understand the ideas behind both their philosophies and see the merits in both.  I probably come across as being in the "Bern Camp" more but I think thats just 'cos it tends to be her who's seen as the bad guy in this the most.

Bern is of the philosophy that two people in a committed relationship share a bond that is unique to them.  It can generally make people feel good and important in life to have someone who loves you to a level that they love no-one else.  It makes you feel special to that person and seeing them feel that way about other people can make the bond seem less significant or even insignificant.  Effectively you see yourself as just one of many deep loves in that person's life rather than the one.

Maytag on the other hand enjoys deep and intimate connections with many people, enjoying the mass of it rather than the uniqueness.  Likewise she does feel for these others and if they're being intimate with people other than her is only happy for them to be experiencing what she desires to feel with as many people, as often as possible.

The problem is that Maytag's frivolities are hurtful to Bern.  Just as Maytag is making an effort to be committed, Bern could also make the effort to accept and allow Maytag's sexual freedom.  Actually, she did exactly that for quite some time and bore it in quiet silence.  This arrangement is really Maytag making an effort to return the favor and I suspect they'll likely work to further understand each other's points of view and continue to compromise their stances as they gain understanding.

This latest development with Polly is a problem though.  What Bern is really doing wrong here, and whats been wrong with all Maytag's sleeping behind Bern's back, is the dishonesty.  Misleading each other rather than talking through their differences and feelings on subjects.  You could probably argue successfully that if they had been honest with each other in the beginning then they wouldn't be together today.  Maytag would simply say that she doesn't believe in committed relationships, Bern would inform her that such an arrangement is not acceptable to her and they go their separate ways having not had the time to form a deep relationship.  But they did mislead each other and grew too close for either to really risk the destruction of the relationship by not working hard to cover up the differences or pretend they didn't noticable.
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Yeti

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Re: Chapter 33: Discussion
« Reply #47 on: June 27, 2012, 07:30:43 am »
Hold on a minute there charles, I feel you've got a nit running around in that post and I want to pick it. Both polyamory and Maytag are a little more complex than simply desiring a "mass of bonds" which are effectively the same. May appreciates people for their unique traits, for their personalities - I hazard a guess here that this is part of what makes her a very capable poker player. Ideally yes, she'd like a mass of deep bonds, but every single one of those deep bonds she'd appreciate on a unique level; no one would ever be able to replace the bond she has with Bern, and Bern should still have every reason to feel special. 

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Re: Chapter 33: Discussion
« Reply #48 on: June 27, 2012, 01:20:51 pm »
Assuming May is indeed pansexual and desiring of polyamorous relationships, I'm curious to know whether or not she'd be able to comfortably pull them off.  I find it hard to believe that May wouldn't become jealous if any of her partners formed deep emotional and physical relationships with others.  Her desires are ambitious for that reason, as well as for the assumption that she will be able to be aroused enough by all of her friends to enjoy sex with all of them.  It seems more like wishful thinking than a practical solution.

Kiran

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Re: Chapter 33: Discussion
« Reply #49 on: June 29, 2012, 01:24:09 am »
My inner pervert is blushing!
Go Regina, go!
 :-*
So now both Bern and May were kissed by people they are rather fond of, Bern so far didn't falter, now it will be interesting to see what May will do.

Or it was just Regina trying to see how it would feel?
If that rocked her world or was worse than kissing her past boyfriend, so maybe just an experiment.

Assuming May is indeed pansexual and desiring of polyamorous relationships, I'm curious to know whether or not she'd be able to comfortably pull them off.  I find it hard to believe that May wouldn't become jealous if any of her partners formed deep emotional and physical relationships with others.  Her desires are ambitious for that reason, as well as for the assumption that she will be able to be aroused enough by all of her friends to enjoy sex with all of them.  It seems more like wishful thinking than a practical solution.
That is one thing I want to see touched in the comic, we know Bern is jealous of May, and she allowed for cheating to happen so May as younger one would simply crazy out for it to pass with time, but she hated it on personal level.
But is May capable of being jealous over Bern if she became intimate with someone else?
From all we got of May and her philosophy here she shouldn't, she rather should be glad that Bern found another nice person to be with in such relation and connect.
I kinda want to see their relation brake fully, cause personally I don't see a proper exit in it, in Bern place(since I'm a happy monogamist who thinks being loyal is the most important thing), if I would really love Maytag I would simply let her go, knowing fully I limit her happiness, and that she can't be truly happy with me due to her true nature, at the same time knowing I would never allow her to sleep around with other which would dimnish our special connection with time.

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Re: Chapter 33: Discussion
« Reply #50 on: June 29, 2012, 03:02:43 am »
Yeah that WAS a bad idea to tell her that now that she restricted herself out of her old lifestyle.
It would be funny if may remains steadfast while bern cracks.

Whatever way it swings will not matter anyway because zombie suspiria will start nibbling on people soon so there's bigger things to worry about.

Lord Stone

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Re: Chapter 33: Discussion
« Reply #51 on: July 02, 2012, 06:48:13 am »
This might trigger a bit of a guilt trip I guess. Wonder how Maytag's going to respond to this... or how she is going to explain the details of this particular conversation to Bern, because it's starting to look like that might become inevitable as well...

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Re: Chapter 33: Discussion
« Reply #52 on: July 03, 2012, 06:24:19 am »
Are 4 enough for an orgy?
If so I could settle for a lesbian orgy too.

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Re: Chapter 33: Discussion
« Reply #53 on: July 04, 2012, 03:44:07 am »
Egads.
Maytag! Clothes! xD
Winner of Brion Foulke's "cute little panda"-award.
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Re: Chapter 33: Discussion
« Reply #54 on: July 04, 2012, 05:01:39 am »
What's the sentence for streaking?
What good is dreaming it if you don't actually do it?.

Azure Priest

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Re: Chapter 33: Discussion
« Reply #55 on: July 04, 2012, 05:41:01 am »
Ok, Regina's really not taking this well.

No matter how "nicely" you do it, turning down a crush is always painful, but Regina, really, is seriously being unfair about it.

As for Maytag, really, it's nice that she's got no problem being nude in public, but even in this "safe" city, it's quite dangerous to walk about completely naked.

ducky_worshiper

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Re: Chapter 33: Discussion
« Reply #56 on: July 05, 2012, 12:26:08 pm »
I don't think Regina is being unfair at all.  If Maytag hadn't decided that she suddenly got some high from telling the "truth" then none of this would have happened.  Did Regina still pine for Maytag? Yes, but she *knew* May was in a relationship and had no reason to believe that anything would ever come of her and Maytag.

Now?  Now she's not only been told that she was technically assaulted while passed out (no matter how much she adores Maytag, May took major inappropriate advantage of Regina when she kissed her), but she's been told "hey I love you too but that's not gonna change anything, right?" 

L0g0s

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Re: Chapter 33: Discussion
« Reply #57 on: July 06, 2012, 02:24:51 pm »
Bad Regina, BAD!

Though I suppose this shows that Maytag may not be as good a judge of people as we (I) thought.

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Re: Chapter 33: Discussion
« Reply #58 on: July 06, 2012, 05:35:39 pm »
Though I own all the books so far, this is my first post here.

http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=1577; Perhaps a better term for what Maytag is trying to describe would be Pan-Sexual? (Gotta love those sexy, sexy pans. They get so dirty when you cook with them)
« Last Edit: July 06, 2012, 05:37:14 pm by TheBlackCat »

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Re: Chapter 33: Discussion
« Reply #59 on: July 06, 2012, 07:40:24 pm »
Can one of those who is castigating Regina please explain to me why she is the one in the wrong here?