Author Topic: Chapter 54: Discussion  (Read 1190 times)

bulmabriefs144

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Chapter 54: Discussion
« on: November 04, 2019, 05:45:35 am »
I guess it's okay if I start? No discussion page yet.

So we have the title page Strength Is Kindness, and an ominous looking scene with Bell looking down at stuff. 

Besides looking inordinately like a librarian, and making me think she's some super-powerful behind-the-scenes puppertmaster (always the quiet ones), I get a few impressions from Bell.

I mean, we've barely heard her talk  but I immediately associate her with the anime Maho Tsukai Tai! where the entire first act had aliens versus witches (until they turned it into giant cherry blossom tree).  I dunno how much that has to do with anything, but the big pmibous bell-shaped building sorta look the same.

The other thing is, I was reading Japanese borrowed words and "bell" apparently sounds so much like "bear" that they had to artificially make a new sound even though Japanese doesn't have a strong R sound.  If she suddenly turns out to be like an angry bear, my suspicions will be confirmed.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2019, 05:55:01 am by bulmabriefs144 »
"この世界の悪があれば本当に、それは人類の心の内にあります."
(Truly, if there is evil in this world, it lies within the heart of mankind)
—Edward D. Morrison

sunphoenix

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Re: Chapter 54: Discussion
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2019, 06:54:30 pm »
Qtalda is just creepy as fuck!
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein

bulmabriefs144

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Re: Chapter 54: Discussion
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2019, 04:54:28 am »
Okay, I finally believe Qtalda wasn't the mastermind.  A person who knows what a situation looks like would withdraw like this, while a manipulative type would tell ppl that it's all Suspiria's faylt then try to take power.

Also, invisible Qtalda is kinda cute.

I'm thinking the reason she's invisible btw is (stop me Brion if this turns out to be a spoiler) because in the course of testing her Death and Decay spell, she destroyed her own physical body and is basically a solid spirit.
"この世界の悪があれば本当に、それは人類の心の内にあります."
(Truly, if there is evil in this world, it lies within the heart of mankind)
—Edward D. Morrison

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Re: Chapter 54: Discussion
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2019, 07:56:27 pm »
I'm STILL not convinced! Assholes can be insightful at points to see the shit they have ~ so carefully plotted out {or so they thought} blow up in their faces!

Remember, Qtalda's plan was not to kill off the Conclave..they were, after all, more than half of them already in her pocket... even the leader did not know he was no longer in control of the Conclave!  The fact is she underestimated Suspiria's power and when Suspiria turned her ~ 'full-proof; "kill the annoying inconvenient little sorceress bitch" spell', back on her and her cronies.. it ROYALLY Screwed Qtalda's plans to remain the hidden control behind the Conclave.

Nah, I still think she's dirty...to her invisible core!
« Last Edit: November 07, 2019, 08:02:51 pm by sunphoenix »
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein

bulmabriefs144

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Re: Chapter 54: Discussion
« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2019, 07:35:06 am »
Here's how I see it.

I had originally thought of her as a schemer to take ownership of the Conclave, something like gaslighting Suspiria until she did it for her.

After all of this, she would be like "Suspiria did it, look, look!" I also suspected Bell (as I say, always the quiet ones) did alot of mind-control stuff and was way stronger than the Conclave originally believed.

And yet, a person who realizes that they aren't legitimate, means... they would have committed an act in full view that it would gain them nothing and cost them disgrace.  Qtalda could simply have allowed everyone to believe she is dead (she's invisible after all), and the others Crest was talking to would be like "Ummmm she does have parents, it's possible everyone was brainwashed." The blame would still entirely be on Suspiria, but Qtalda could be a secret joint leader and Bell would ostensibly be the official admin of the Conclave. Nobody would even know she's still there (literally), and this is all it would take for her to get away with her plans.  Instead, she refuses power, and openly admits that she is still alive.

That's not "part of a longer plan" that's sabotaging any plans you might have.

This is not to say she is not, as Suspiria puts it an "evil bitch."  But as things go, neither the Thin Man (more of a Cloudcuckoolander scientist type) nor Suspiria (too powerful and unstable for her own good) nor even Qtalda are what you'd call stock villains.

Omae wa mou shindeiru

Update: Yes, she'd rule exactly like this, if she were trying to takie over. Publicly assign someone else and pull their strings. Exactly like... uh oh.  :o
« Last Edit: November 09, 2019, 04:21:14 am by bulmabriefs144 »
"この世界の悪があれば本当に、それは人類の心の内にあります."
(Truly, if there is evil in this world, it lies within the heart of mankind)
—Edward D. Morrison

sunphoenix

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Re: Chapter 54: Discussion
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2019, 05:34:33 am »
Yeah... same old schemes different flavor.  I just hope we someday get to the truth behind Suspiria's claims... and I hope we have not seen the last of Suspriria.. or her pursuit of happiness. She didn't 'deserve' the fate she was dealt.
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein

bulmabriefs144

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Re: Chapter 54: Discussion
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2019, 10:26:30 pm »
I actually think Melter is right (which in effect means her parents are alive). But I think Qtalda wasn't induced to lying either. While  she didn't exactly murder them, she probably wrecked her relationship with her parents.

We have seen this sort of thing happen in Book 0.  Magic has great power, but seems to have that potential for horror. Like inducing madness or paranoia. Or heightening power to the point where reality is out of control. I'm strongly reminded of Dark City, which I suspect Brion has seen (or should see, because it's kinda his style) where the aliens have a reality warping ability called tuning.  The higher the level, the more their personality gets distorted.

Suspiria's parents probably got a sales pitch but she didn't actually actually want to stat there (and felt kidnapped).  Then when she went back, she was a different person, but her parents seemed to be different people instead. Sorta like not being sure whether the sun orbits the Earth or vice versa, or an animal confusing its own face for a rival animal and charging it. Perception can become skewed.

What one of the intermissions tells us in that her real name is Inverness, and she used to be rather quiet and like a waitress or something. If we flash forward, there's this flashy persona and a girl with wild hair who calls herself a genius.  We see a little of the old Inverness when Crest is hanging out with her, but I feel like this persona was built as a defense mechanism for dealing with bullying. And her parents probably didn't have the same feelings towards her as  before because of this.

What we do know is that in a manner of speaking, Qtalda isn't lying. And Melter seems like a thug but not a liar.  Qtalda does have a manipulative personality, and probably gave her no choice about backing out once she joined. 

But is conversion to stone actually death, or just extreme dormancy?
« Last Edit: November 13, 2019, 07:14:50 pm by bulmabriefs144 »
"この世界の悪があれば本当に、それは人類の心の内にあります."
(Truly, if there is evil in this world, it lies within the heart of mankind)
—Edward D. Morrison

sunphoenix

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Re: Chapter 54: Discussion
« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2019, 06:02:37 am »
I still think Crest could 'wake' her.  He never even tried to use the sword to heal her.. its also part of her power...and I think as long as that sword is magical.. her will still lives on.  If only Crest would believe and ... be a bit more creative!
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein

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Re: Chapter 54: Discussion
« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2019, 01:53:06 am »
Okay, good point about the sword. Provided Crest can stab stone with it. But I theorize that instead her soul went somewhere else. Melter said her spirit essence was gone:
http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=3781
So maybe she just wished herself away or something. A secluded place where she could learn to handle her powers without bending the reality her friends are in. I mean, she is a genius and Melter DID give her brief info on what would've been needed to properly break the seals for a bunch of higher levels. So maybe that's enough for her to figure out on her own what to do retroactively AND what to watch out for when breaking future seals. Or she wished herself to a place with people who could teach her properly.

Though something will have to go wrong or else she's going to return as quite an OP character. Maybe Mary switches off the computer at the bottom of the pit and all magic will be gone instantly. XD

bulmabriefs144

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Re: Chapter 54: Discussion
« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2019, 04:33:55 am »
I was thinking the same thing, but was thinking Suspiria is alot more human and alot more small town girl than all that. I think Suspiria is resting in Regina's mind. It kinda makes sense:
1. Regina suddenly gains a level
2. And like Suspiria starts calling herself by a new name (it's possible that this happened sometime  between the statue incident and her losing her orb and exiting the Pit)
3. And immediately Regina hooks up with Crest. This feels kinda like Seifer in FF8 getting whispered in the ear when Rinoa gets possessed, only more benign cuz she's like "I'm sharing a body with your former gf" Regina is herself since Suspiria knows about "making" people do stuff, so this is more an "asking" to live in her body (she seems calm meaning either she completely doesn't know which is problematic later if she suddenly finds out, or she agreed to it because it gets her a nice bf).  :-*

That Regina changed her name means she probably does know she isn't the same person anymore.
"この世界の悪があれば本当に、それは人類の心の内にあります."
(Truly, if there is evil in this world, it lies within the heart of mankind)
—Edward D. Morrison

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Re: Chapter 54: Discussion
« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2019, 06:21:05 am »
Huh? Y'know Bulma... I like that theory!  And it seems... story-wise consistent!  :-*
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein

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Re: Chapter 54: Discussion
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2019, 08:30:24 am »
Yikes, that'd be exactly the amount of creepiness I'm used to seeing in this comic. So, yeah, I am favoring that theory over my own, too.

bulmabriefs144

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Re: Chapter 54: Discussion
« Reply #12 on: November 16, 2019, 05:10:17 am »
Plus it has the whole cutesy "she lives on in me :-* " thing taken to a horror level.

Well, I also think some of her is powering the sword.

What a strange world Qtalda lives in if she believes smashing a statue is "treating a gravestone honorably." I think we're seeing a good example  of exactly why Suspi is so angry and emotionally damaged.

« Last Edit: November 16, 2019, 05:18:40 am by bulmabriefs144 »
"この世界の悪があれば本当に、それは人類の心の内にあります."
(Truly, if there is evil in this world, it lies within the heart of mankind)
—Edward D. Morrison

sunphoenix

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Re: Chapter 54: Discussion
« Reply #13 on: November 16, 2019, 06:55:41 am »
Yeah.  But I am going to miss the Horned Suspiria.. I thought she was Deadly Sexy!  Strong-willed  women are terribly attractive... at least to me.
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein

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Re: Chapter 54: Discussion
« Reply #14 on: November 19, 2019, 12:54:19 am »
I love cute glass-cannon women, too, like in Saikano. It would be sad to lose Suspiria, too, now that Mary has become so stone-cold as well. And if you look at Moby I'm starting to see a trend happen. I wonder what leading the leftovers of the Phalanx-leftovers will do to her.
Anyway, ever since Suspiria stopped being that arrogant bitch from the story's beginning, she has become my favorite character of this comic. I'd be surprised if a character just died right after getting revealed that they're way more powerful than anyone could possibly imagine. I believe that having her snap and turn to stone was a smart way of getting an OP character out of the picture for now. I call that the least amount of time we'll have to wait for her to return is the time it takes for Mary to learn how to use computers. ;)

Btw: I semi-randomly browsed StackExchange and found this:
https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/518087/single-word-for-being-half-in-this-world-half-in-some-other-spooky-plane-of-exi

Maybe Suspiria is currently indeed in a liminal existence, trapped between this world and the other. She could still subtly influence Regina and the others like that, without being able to communicate directly as of now.

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Re: Chapter 54: Discussion
« Reply #15 on: November 20, 2019, 06:39:56 am »
today's montage of growing friendship scenes...

'Ever get the feeling you were being stalked by some invisible sorcerous schemer?  Maybe I'm just being paranoid?!?
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein

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Re: Chapter 54: Discussion
« Reply #16 on: November 24, 2019, 11:25:03 pm »
Awe Maytag! You scheming little tart... your plan is evident now... skinny dipping in a private lake!  Yeah, I'll 'Bet' it'll be a "Magical Experience"!   :-*
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein

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Re: Chapter 54: Discussion
« Reply #17 on: November 25, 2019, 04:05:01 pm »
That face again...

It's been a while...

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Re: Chapter 54: Discussion
« Reply #18 on: November 26, 2019, 08:32:43 pm »
Maybe it's body switching.... 😏

bulmabriefs144

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Re: Chapter 54: Discussion
« Reply #19 on: November 28, 2019, 10:27:45 am »
No, she said the opposite of group nudity.

This means it's a Lake of Prudishness.  ;D
"この世界の悪があれば本当に、それは人類の心の内にあります."
(Truly, if there is evil in this world, it lies within the heart of mankind)
—Edward D. Morrison

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Re: Chapter 54: Discussion
« Reply #20 on: December 02, 2019, 01:12:34 am »
My first guess, before she said the thing about the "opposite" of nudity, was:
This lake is able to reflect what is on the opposite side instead of your own reflection. Say hello to Eye, the youngest cat-lady ever. But maybe the lake does have multiple magical effects, so I'm still hoping that something along these lines is what Maytag thought for for her.

Or maybe Eye has a multi-use portal with her by now.

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Re: Chapter 54: Discussion
« Reply #21 on: December 02, 2019, 03:06:03 pm »
She isn't wet!

sunphoenix

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Re: Chapter 54: Discussion
« Reply #22 on: December 03, 2019, 01:54:48 pm »
Yeah, Maytag's not wet... interesting...
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein

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Re: Chapter 54: Discussion
« Reply #23 on: December 03, 2019, 08:40:04 pm »
They Might Be Giants had a song about this... 😌

bulmabriefs144

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Re: Chapter 54: Discussion
« Reply #24 on: December 03, 2019, 10:50:29 pm »
I'm not sure that IS a good idea, so after this post I'm gonna make a poll on exactly that topic.

I've talked about the book that I've been making, I think. One of the major factors in how magic works is that there are runes and Original Intent. Runes are effectively reactions at an atomic levwl (or something, despite me explaining it in depth, it always felt like there was something I needed to refine).  Basically Original Intent is matter as designed and no amount of runes can change that, but they can simulate energy or matter reactions.  For instance, Original Intent means that metal rusts and water is wet and fire burn people. This means much of matter (besides fire and water, and the latter is usually lacking in a great deal of water's traits like being able to drink it) cannot be created. It also makes it difficult to impossible to dramatically shapeshift, though things like height or sex can change, the face largely stays the same. Nor can a person make metal that doesn't rust through magic (alchemy is a diff story) or alter water so it isn't wet (though, as I mentioned before they can summon water that lacks most traits), but they can dry up water or rust metal.

It occurs to me that in order to do this, the water is either illusory (read: not much fun to swim in), or greatly distorted from its natural chemistry (possibly closer to gelatin than water). Starting to agree with with the knights Bern wanted to join. That water creeps me out.
"この世界の悪があれば本当に、それは人類の心の内にあります."
(Truly, if there is evil in this world, it lies within the heart of mankind)
—Edward D. Morrison

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Re: Chapter 54: Discussion
« Reply #25 on: December 04, 2019, 06:08:07 am »
is it just me, or does May seem like she's kinda gone commando in that dress? maybe she has plans for that water between her and Bern.

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Re: Chapter 54: Discussion
« Reply #26 on: December 10, 2019, 03:35:02 am »
Crest, you fool! She's practically giving herself to you! Make your move! 😆

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Re: Chapter 54: Discussion
« Reply #27 on: December 12, 2019, 04:01:00 am »
Oh boy, these last two pages slowly start to add some creepiness into this atmosphere. I.e. "Suspiria might be inside of Regina"-like creepiness. I mean
1. Regina isn't actually certain about her feelings towards Crest.
2. She doesn't feel the need to worry about "being careful" anymore.

Especially the 2nd point is something a being would think after having gone through a phase where she could massively alter reality with nothing but a thought.

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Re: Chapter 54: Discussion
« Reply #28 on: December 14, 2019, 09:50:56 am »
I get your feeling ...and part of me is hoping Suspiria is inside Regina.. and part of me is also dreading it! lol!

And yes she is practically waiting on Crest to make the move!  Even just a tender kiss would be nice...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXQViqx6GMY
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein

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Re: Chapter 54: Discussion
« Reply #29 on: December 15, 2019, 02:09:19 am »
Why does what Regina just said make me feel a tad uncomfortable? 🤨 She SHOULD care about herself.... 🤔