Author Topic: Chapter 52: Discussion  (Read 4828 times)

bulmabriefs144

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Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
« Reply #60 on: March 28, 2019, 10:29:28 am »
She's neither. I've asked this question to Brion before. As I remember he said no to her being a psycho.

She might be schizoid, one of the milder autistic spectrum disorders, or simply have flat emotions.

But she actually does care for people. She just can't show it.
"この世界の悪があれば本当に、それは人類の心の内にあります."
(Truly, if there is evil in this world, it lies within the heart of mankind)
—Edward D. Morrison

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Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
« Reply #61 on: March 28, 2019, 02:16:12 pm »
AH!  Well.. I must say.. THAT is a true relief to know.  As her reactions to others seem too genuine to truly be a a mask simply to fool those around her... I'm glad she is not either!

Thank you for the insight... i like her character just that much more, now! :-*
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein

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Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
« Reply #62 on: March 28, 2019, 02:20:25 pm »
What I will say is: although you might recognize traits that come from some of those categories, Maytag is written to not fit neatly into one of those "boxes."

bulmabriefs144

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Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
« Reply #63 on: March 29, 2019, 11:54:08 am »
So basically she's this?

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AmbiguousDisorder

The difference between a sociopath, psychopath, schizoid, and autistic (for quick reference):
  • When a sociopath sees someone get hurt, they pretend to be sad and sometimes are sad, but can just as easily not be
  • When a psychopath sees someone get hurt, they pretend to be sad, but have a weird grin when people leave the room
https://www.diffen.com/difference/Psychopath_vs_Sociopath
  • When a schizoid sees someone get hurt, they are often sad, but it is extremely difficult for them to cry.
  • When an autist sees someone get hurt, they might laugh or cry, but it is not always appropriate.

It's not as simple as that, though because there are also something called a covert schizoid, someone who tries to feel emotions even though they can't really do it well.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2019, 11:57:46 am by bulmabriefs144 »
"この世界の悪があれば本当に、それは人類の心の内にあります."
(Truly, if there is evil in this world, it lies within the heart of mankind)
—Edward D. Morrison

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Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
« Reply #64 on: March 29, 2019, 08:02:20 pm »
Its interesting.. in my Starfinder Game one of the players is playing a male Android who HE claims is a psychopathy... he IS Evil.. lawful Evil to be exact.  But its not apparent to us other characters.  He does what he does cause it efficient.. he really doesn't care one way or the other and is rather clinical in his actions.

I think I'm playing the only actually Good-aligned character in the party as a Neutral Good, and yet he can be kinda fanatical when it comes to the treatment of certain evil religions worshippers.  The other two are lawful Neutral.

And yes I know some of you may hate beyond words the idea of alignment... but in the context of the game setting its fascinating to observe.
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein

bulmabriefs144

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Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
« Reply #65 on: March 31, 2019, 04:34:22 am »
An extremely large number of writers mishandle psychopathy/sociopathy, which is probably why the world is a lot worse than it should be.

They tend to make "psychopaths" to be mustachioed types that look sketchy or oily from the start, have a wicked laugh, and are so reeking of evil that everyone can tell. Or they make fun of people who have trouble expressing their emotions (like Maytag, when she's not doing her dramatic dual personality). Or they decide people who hear voices or have weird behavior are psychos (this one really annoys me, because it means autistic ppl and scizophrenics get feared and/or mistreated).

The person on the bus that you should sit two seats away from isn't the smelly woman who mumbles to herself "ash nazg durnatuluk, ash nazg gimbatul..." not unless her eyes glow or head turns backwards.  It's the charming "confident" guy or girl who seems to have no sense of restraint.  This is a warning sign of about three dangerous social disorders: sociopathy, psychopathy, and toxic narcissism.  And you will later discover that lack of restraint also means lack of remorse.  If something bad happens, it's someone else's fault, or some excuse.  I believe Kohlberg was right, that there are stages of ethics.  The psychopath, when written correctly, is someone stuck at the preconventional morality, they avoid punishment.  Now, how many politicians does this sound like? If you said, "All of them" you're unfortunately probably right.

I find the D&D idea of good/evil overly simplistic.  It's too much like the melodrama with eirher ppl in mustaches or people with chainmail armor and swords and shields.  It also fails to account for complex motivations. Except there are nine instead of two.
 Law, Balance, and Chaos is the model of Avatar: The Last Airbender, Korra, and some other media.  The difference between this an D&D model is that chaos doesn't necessarily mean crazy as you can also be lawful and crazy (as Kuvira was), and good and evil are the result of actions not the cause of them.  That is, you don't do things because you're evil, you do things because of personal motivations, and if suffering results, you're out of balance and something evil has happened as a result of you. Keep doing evil things, and it makes you an evil person. Not the other way around.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2019, 04:38:40 am by bulmabriefs144 »
"この世界の悪があれば本当に、それは人類の心の内にあります."
(Truly, if there is evil in this world, it lies within the heart of mankind)
—Edward D. Morrison

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Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
« Reply #66 on: March 31, 2019, 07:27:01 am »
Lol..to be sure.. we players of our game are ALL Moorcock readers and prefer the Law, Balance, Chaos ideal of alignment.  In our games we don't view Good and Evil based on a innate nature... but on how one views the lives of other beings compared to their own.  Evil beings generally view their lives as more important than anyone or anything else.. and care very little if at all about the live of those around them..as long as their goals are achived.  Good people are somewhat the opposite of that view.  Its not perfect and it is not always case...Evil people can love.. but it is more about what THEY are getting out of love.. not so much the well-being or desires of the individual they love.  Again THEIR life and satisfaction are more important to them.  Just as good people can be overbearing viewing their way of protecting other lives is by restricting their choices or freedoms... but its the lengths to which a 'good' person will go that slowly shifts them away from goodness to tyrannical evil.

Our DM actually prefers the Palladium RPG Alignment system ~ {Good} Principled, Scrupulous, {Selfish} Unprincipled, Anarchist, {Evil} Miscreant, Aberrant,  and finally Diabolic.
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein

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Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
« Reply #67 on: March 31, 2019, 06:42:38 pm »
Huh. No sooner do I say this than I see Dio Brando. He's pretty much spot on what I mean, charming, successful, and ruthless as anything.

:Kicks a dog: "Oh I didn't mean to! I thought it was trying to bite me!"
« Last Edit: March 31, 2019, 06:44:12 pm by bulmabriefs144 »
"この世界の悪があれば本当に、それは人類の心の内にあります."
(Truly, if there is evil in this world, it lies within the heart of mankind)
—Edward D. Morrison

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Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
« Reply #68 on: April 03, 2019, 04:31:38 am »
Ok..enough with the April fools.. new page pls!
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein

bulmabriefs144

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Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
« Reply #69 on: April 04, 2019, 02:16:07 am »
Polly admits to having sex with Bern.

Narrator: Now most people would become insanely jealous. But not Maytag!


« Last Edit: April 05, 2019, 11:52:53 am by bulmabriefs144 »
"この世界の悪があれば本当に、それは人類の心の内にあります."
(Truly, if there is evil in this world, it lies within the heart of mankind)
—Edward D. Morrison

sunphoenix

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Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
« Reply #70 on: April 05, 2019, 05:04:26 pm »
Well.. I can tell that Maytag realizes Polly is holding something in... but Maytag is a shrewd body language reader.  She is judging Polly's reactions with her seemingly innocent questions... but that is far from the case.. Maytag's expression does not show it but she is trying to figure out exactly what Poly's story or game is...

Its VERY hard to fool, Maytag... and can be hazardous to try.
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein

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Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
« Reply #71 on: April 08, 2019, 10:45:04 pm »
She knows because of Bern.

That speech she gave to the Thin Man about having accomplices.  Bern is telling her everything she needs to know without saying a word.
"この世界の悪があれば本当に、それは人類の心の内にあります."
(Truly, if there is evil in this world, it lies within the heart of mankind)
—Edward D. Morrison

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Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
« Reply #72 on: April 10, 2019, 03:34:34 am »
Hehehe, Maytag is finally making her move. I just love it when someone asks penetrating questions with an innocent smile. :-* I wonder if Bern warned Polly ahead of time.

I wonder when Crest returns to them and tells them something like "Um, you know how the Phalanx protecting you is supposed to be stronger than ever by now? So, yeah, here's the thing about our most recent mission.... well, to use a euphemism: I'm their second most competent leader after Q'talda now, followed by Regina." 8)
What do vampires have in common with My Little Pony? Vampires from Twilight Sparkle.

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Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
« Reply #73 on: April 11, 2019, 12:30:21 am »
She knows because of Bern.

That speech she gave to the Thin Man about having accomplices.  Bern is telling her everything she needs to know without saying a word.

Indeed.

Right now... Maytag was waiting for Bern to speak up... cause clearly... Polly was in Emotional agony.. and she just found out how long Bern would let that go on.  Polly is so loyal she would not answer even when pressed... but it does say something that Polly would NOT lie...which I'm sure Maytag picked up on as well!
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein

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Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
« Reply #74 on: April 15, 2019, 07:19:22 pm »
Ok.. just noticed Book 0... {blush}...I know embarrassing considering I've been a fan for years now.  Binge reading it now.. gotta say.. Maytag is terribly cute!  And Ashley reminds me of DBZ 'Culiflower' {snicker}!  I'm glad thus far Bernadette has not had to kill any of them.. I'm on chapter 5.

EDIT 1#:  Tee-hee... I like the jingle of Maytags bells.. but I understand why you took them out.  But... perhaps her bells should jingle when Maytag's moving in for some... aheh, trying to score! {snicker}

EDIT 2#:  Uhm.. why did the Maw spit Bern out?  That's perplexing...

EDIT 3#:  By the way Brion.. I love YOUR coloring.. never would have visualized the color schemes you chose!  VERY Nice!  :-*
http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic/book0/fs15pg01.html

EDIT 4#: For the Record Brion... I feel that small-breasted or not... Bernadette is a Very lovely woman inside which makes her perhaps small proportions outside inconsequential!  Any man would be honored to gain her love.. if she were inclined that way!  :-*

EDIT 5#:  Ulp..how Sweet!   ;)  Maytag's real name is Veranda!  :-*

EDIT 6#:  Huh.. Maytag smells like licorice?!?  Odd... not sure how to fit that in my mind lol!  I'm not a fan of licorice...but in Maytag's case... I think I'd give it a another try {snicker}!  And she is cute as a jester... don't get me wrong... but she's totally irresistible with her mask off.. all that cute short-blonde hair!  ;D Gah... she's a Heartbreaker!  :-*

EDIT 7#:  Ok.. I LOVED Book 0! I think your art evolved visibly through the chapters... the story was heart-touching and I'm sorry it took me so long to get to read it.  You should put it in the normal books rotation it IS really Good and in my opinion stands well on its own!  Thank you!  :-*
« Last Edit: April 16, 2019, 04:14:27 am by sunphoenix »
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein

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Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
« Reply #75 on: April 16, 2019, 10:34:09 am »
Hey wait...!

http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=2983

Is that Asheley?!?
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein

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Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
« Reply #76 on: April 17, 2019, 12:35:24 am »
Wahahahaha Maytag is so blunt about how sharp she is! ;D :-*
What do vampires have in common with My Little Pony? Vampires from Twilight Sparkle.

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Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
« Reply #77 on: April 19, 2019, 05:32:19 am »
OH GODS!!! The Drama and tension are KILLING ME!!!  Either ...Maytag is going to pull them both close and bang BOTH THEIR BRAINS OUT...or they are all going to be SHATTERED and part in Grief... and honestly... I'm not sure which!!!

DAMN YOU Brion! Damn you all the way ta...!  :-*
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein

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Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
« Reply #78 on: April 22, 2019, 02:43:10 am »
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein

bulmabriefs144

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Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
« Reply #79 on: April 24, 2019, 04:26:37 am »
Bern: Well, there was that time where we had sex in the Arena, does that count?
May: :sweatdrops: Hmmmm.
"この世界の悪があれば本当に、それは人類の心の内にあります."
(Truly, if there is evil in this world, it lies within the heart of mankind)
—Edward D. Morrison

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Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
« Reply #80 on: April 24, 2019, 12:57:27 pm »
May:  ... {looks over at Polly ~ and leers} So... does that mean I'm invited too?
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein

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Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
« Reply #81 on: May 02, 2019, 08:14:39 pm »
"I know you! I almost knew you as soon as I saw you on the road coming to my door. Since then, there is no movement of yours that has not betrayed you! A pace, a glance, a turn of the head, the flash of your throat as you breathe... even your way of standing perfectly still - they were all my spies!" ~ King Haggard, 'The Last Unicorn'
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein

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Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
« Reply #82 on: May 03, 2019, 01:49:44 am »
Okay, May...? I think you're being a tad too understandable...? 😆

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Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
« Reply #83 on: May 03, 2019, 03:32:32 am »
It's like she said though. Hasn't really betrayed her.  Betrayed is when you lie and say "this is not what it looks like" when clearly it is. Bern, the entire time cared about how her Dearest felt, and wanted to tell her what she was doing. Even though it hurt. Even though she feared she would leave her.

This is much different from the characters I wrote who had a threesome. The initial two were kinda friends before that, but... well it was an odd relationship because the guy (Elias) wanted the girl (Aqorm) mainly for conversation and company but wasn't really into sex or family. The other girl (Lilith) was a horny demon in both senses of the word, and didn't really care about conversations. Aqorm loves them both as if they're parts of a whole person. But it's so screwed up, that I can't feel like the first one even gets much in the way of conversation after that.  Things got so awkward even though it was consensual on all parties, that there is not much to talk about. And Lilith secretly also hung out with Michael, an angel, but after getting him pregnant ( ??? don't ask), she kinda wants nothing to do with him, because Michael is an andel and all, so about four people in the group aren't close.  Meanwhile, the lesbian couple (Azrael and Anideshi) who are never written as having sex at all are still joined at the hip, the main heroes (Ambrosia and Nevras) are still doing okay aside from a whole trust issue involving time travel and kinda hiding a previous breakup, and the token villainous heroes (Yazim Jianne and Selqui) are having depraved adventures too. I guess the moral of the story is polygamy/adultery is harder to write a good ending for.
"この世界の悪があれば本当に、それは人類の心の内にあります."
(Truly, if there is evil in this world, it lies within the heart of mankind)
—Edward D. Morrison

sunphoenix

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Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
« Reply #84 on: May 03, 2019, 06:53:59 am »
Okay, May...? I think you're being a tad too understandable...? 😆

And you MUST remember... Maytag was all fine about multiple extra-relationship flings... it was Bern who wanted a commitment.  It must be much harder on Maytag to to give up her free spirited sexual encounters {though admittedly... in her adventures she has not had much temptation 'Though I'm sure she got a charge out of straddling Lehm!  ;D'} then it would be for Bern to accept her own desires for sexcual encounters outside their relationship.  Bern's feelings for Polly were supressed for years ... and when suddenly Polly ...lovely Polly {not-so-purebread  ;)} was flung back into her life Bern could not deny to herself her deep affection for Polly.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2019, 06:57:23 am by sunphoenix »
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein

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Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
« Reply #85 on: May 06, 2019, 12:36:04 am »
I love how much detail went into drawing their eyes. I know this has been the case for a long time by now, but I just noticed it again. :-)
What do vampires have in common with My Little Pony? Vampires from Twilight Sparkle.

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Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
« Reply #86 on: May 07, 2019, 05:00:24 am »
Now here I find it hard not to feel bad for May.  She is forgiving and accepting, but Bern isn't, so she could never have the open relationship her heart desired...but now Bernadette has "cheated", as she would define it, and Maytag is completely accepting, because she knows that this is a natural human thing, and doesn't reflect on Bern's love for her.

UUURRRGGG!!!

But, I'm sure Maytag would say that she chose her present situation willingly, and doesn't blame Bern in the least.

What a saint!!!

Edit: By the way nice twist Brion...did anyone else think that Bern had slept with Polly in the jail cell?  I just remember thinking it would have been almost impossible for anyone, even Bern, to resist the urge, given how long they were locked up together.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2019, 05:03:21 am by UmberIsSexy »

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Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
« Reply #87 on: May 08, 2019, 12:55:10 am »
They slept with each other, because some rich person paid them to do it as an alternative to Polly getting raped for 20 days (or rather: for 19 more days).
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Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
« Reply #88 on: May 08, 2019, 07:01:52 am »
Oh, I only vaguely remember that...have to go back and look.

That's quite different. :-\

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Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
« Reply #89 on: May 08, 2019, 02:49:58 pm »
May's hardly a saint.  I remember Crest calling her on one of her affairs where she was all like "no big deal."

But she is a sweetie, even though she has some spotty bits in the past. 

As for everything not being alright, Bern has no idea.  Crest and Regina are emotional wrecks, Suspie is kinda stone-washed, and there's probably gonna be issues because Bern probably will always have some feelings for Polly (or vice versa).  And then there's whatever's going on with the demons or whatever is guarding areas like the Pit, and the whole computer program of magic.  There's probably quite a bit to worry about long term, it's just not as tense as last chapter. 

...Holy crap, when did the Pit chapter begin? Because it's dated 2017, and it's now 2019.  Hold up.  Three times a week, that roughly 20 weeks per chapter, right? So it takes about a year to do about 3 chapters?
« Last Edit: May 08, 2019, 02:55:39 pm by bulmabriefs144 »
"この世界の悪があれば本当に、それは人類の心の内にあります."
(Truly, if there is evil in this world, it lies within the heart of mankind)
—Edward D. Morrison