Author Topic: Chapter 50: Discussion  (Read 8918 times)

SAGG

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Chapter 50: Discussion
« on: January 26, 2018, 01:59:51 am »
Judging from the picture, Brion's obviously on an acid trip... 😂

bulmabriefs144

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Re: Chapter 50: Discussion
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2018, 04:38:33 am »
Judging from the picture, Brion's obviously on an acid trip... 😂

Pffft.  ;D

Also, at what point did... maybe it's just me, but I seem to remember the first chapter being called The Pit.  Which, in light of what is happening (towns changing suddenly), is unbelievably meta.

I'm reminded strongly of Bravely Default: Where The Fairy Flies

"この世界の悪があれば本当に、それは人類の心の内にあります."
(Truly, if there is evil in this world, it lies within the heart of mankind)
—Edward D. Morrison

mittfh

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Re: Chapter 50: Discussion
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2018, 10:18:24 am »
"I remember being told that no one was ever supposed to go in there."

Sensible option: retreat
What will probably happen: "Since the door's open, let's look inside..."
"One or two steps inside probably won't hurt..."
"Nothing's happened so far..."

Beyond there, anything could happen. The standard horror movie trope would be the door would mysteriously, autonomously shut and lock as soon as they were inside, offering no retreat from The Thing.

Brion Foulke

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Re: Chapter 50: Discussion
« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2018, 06:31:22 pm »
I'm reminded strongly of Bravely Default: Where The Fairy Flies

When that little title shenanigans was pointed out to me, I was quite impressed!  Loved that game, btw!

bulmabriefs144

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Re: Chapter 50: Discussion
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2018, 09:59:41 pm »
Glad you liked!  ;D

Also, it looks like time for a breakup.
"この世界の悪があれば本当に、それは人類の心の内にあります."
(Truly, if there is evil in this world, it lies within the heart of mankind)
—Edward D. Morrison

SAGG

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Re: Chapter 50: Discussion
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2018, 08:24:48 pm »
Whoa. Is that really it for Bloody Mary, or is she just a duplicate? I'm guessing a duplicate. She's too cool to be just destroyed like that.... 😎

sunphoenix

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Re: Chapter 50: Discussion
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2018, 12:14:20 pm »
Ah-ha! So she can make duplicates of herself... I guess that is where all that flesh she eats is going also... as well as making her stronger!

I do Hope Crest and Suspira get a chance for some private discussion... among other things!  :-*

He's so shy and she's so radically forward and bold... but different from Moby who is all passion but no heart!
I think Suspiria would be good for him.  Aheh... she needs to make love to Crest like a Hurricane, but sweet-like {she'll need to be mindful of her spikes, but THAT could be kinky too}... to teach him that feminine passion need not be feared and Crest need to teach her that vulnerability is not weakness that its ok to love and express it ~ that doing so does not diminish the self.

Really think they would make a good match.

By the way... where IS Crest's sword?  He's not been drawn with it for some time?  Does he have some magical way to conceal it on his person...like Maytag's stilletos?
« Last Edit: February 15, 2018, 04:18:23 am by sunphoenix »
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein


sunphoenix

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Re: Chapter 50: Discussion
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2018, 12:49:50 am »
OH Crap... something fishy is going on here... is this even Suspiria, or only what the Phalanx and Crest is to believe is Suspiria?  Or is something is also fooling her that she doesn't even realize EVEN with all of her power?
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein


bulmabriefs144

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Re: Chapter 50: Discussion
« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2018, 03:29:28 am »
There's two options. Along way back, to get Crest and the others to believe in the whole  Suspiria's parents are still alive thing Qtalda mind-controlled Crest and the others. Spells sometimes have side-effects and this is a paranoid halucination. Regina is seeing something different. This also accounts for the other three having strange behavior esp the suicide.

There are dimensional side-effects through keeping a portal open like that, and one of them is unstable reality. Suspiria for all her power, cannot see through different dimension so Crest seems crazy to her.

These are not mutually exclusive btw. Both can be true.
"この世界の悪があれば本当に、それは人類の心の内にあります."
(Truly, if there is evil in this world, it lies within the heart of mankind)
—Edward D. Morrison

sunphoenix

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Re: Chapter 50: Discussion
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2018, 07:41:22 pm »
Whew!!! Finally... I can post comments here again.... I've been unable to log into the forums for almost two weeks now!! Thanks again for fixing whatever issue it was Brion!

Wow so much is happening in the comic.... now we know Qtalda was lying for certain... I just don't see Melter as the lying sort... that would indicate he felt some fear of punishment or emotional guilt for any of his actions which I'm certain he does not in the least!!!
« Last Edit: February 27, 2018, 07:43:45 pm by sunphoenix »
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein


bulmabriefs144

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Re: Chapter 50: Discussion
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2018, 08:40:41 pm »
I am still not convinced that Thin Man is behind this! This whole deal feels like some sort of internal coup with one of the members of the council trying to take all the power for themselves and make it look like someone else killed them off.

-Melter gave Regina advice on lucid dreaming.
-Then there are all these weird parallel universe events.
-There's that hole... I don't like the look of that pit at all.

Given that Melter seems not to be hiding stuff, this seems to rule him out. Suspiria too, she's not sure what's happening. Thin Man's a specialist. It's tempting to blame him for all the world's problems but the truth is, he can only use the paintbrush. Psycho chef makes monsters, but this doesn't look like the sort of magic she would have.

Something weird is going on. 
"この世界の悪があれば本当に、それは人類の心の内にあります."
(Truly, if there is evil in this world, it lies within the heart of mankind)
—Edward D. Morrison

sunphoenix

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Re: Chapter 50: Discussion
« Reply #11 on: February 27, 2018, 10:34:06 pm »
Well Clearly Lehm is not the one calling all these shots... but who has the power, the ruthlessness and ambition to plot all of this... Qtalda... she may be working with the Psycho Chef to make monsters.  Why ... to make a straw threat for her to show the inadequacy of mages serving the public good to put forth the need for a Magocracy.. where Wizard's do in fact rule and force there will upon ordering society  all in the name of "common good" against such threats that she is secretly in cohoots with making.  She has already effectively from behind the scenes seized control of the Conclave then she effectively manipulated Suspiria into eliminating them as a unified force that could either oppose her or out her from those who were secretly supporting her efforts from within the Conclave.
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein


bulmabriefs144

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Re: Chapter 50: Discussion
« Reply #12 on: February 28, 2018, 12:32:49 pm »
I wonder if what they really did with her mind is fix it to a certain reality. As in, the random people in the town don't notice it changing, Crest and Regina notice because stuff happened and their minds are able to notice reality when it changes phase. Suspiria is able to see one reality, and if it changes, she doesn't.

So in the case of Suspiria's parents dying:
1. The townspeople would believe whatever their current reality said to believe, instantly overwriting when stuff changes. In the reality where the parents died, they might feel bad, otherwise they think she is crazy.
2. Crest and Gang notice stuff like outfits and architecture and the number of deaths changing, but also see distinct realities. That is, Crest would believe Crest's parents are still alive because he saw them, but also would be able to observe a reality where they weren't alive.
3. Suspiria, no matter what reality she lives in, has memories from one reality (we'll call it Reality 3a). In Reality 3a, she knows her parents died, and evidence to the contrary in this reality she decides is nonsense.
 
"この世界の悪があれば本当に、それは人類の心の内にあります."
(Truly, if there is evil in this world, it lies within the heart of mankind)
—Edward D. Morrison

sunphoenix

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Re: Chapter 50: Discussion
« Reply #13 on: March 01, 2018, 05:20:20 am »
Clearly... Crest has A LOT of influence over Suspiria.  Its sweet!  :-*

...And I am none too worried about Marry carrying a scythe weapon!  Melter must be VERY powerful.. he did not flinch at Suspiria's threat... either that or he knew she would not lash out at him but if he's so confident.. why the armed Mary Escort?
« Last Edit: March 01, 2018, 05:23:16 am by sunphoenix »
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein


SirBananaPie

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Re: Chapter 50: Discussion
« Reply #14 on: March 02, 2018, 12:38:35 am »
Nice! Finally we get to see a showdown between Mary, Melter and Suspiria. Also the "conclave". :)
It's about time Melter showed his face. Now is the perfect time to insert a bunch of Bernadette-related chapters with her former lesbian love interest with a lot of crying and cheesy dialogue. ::)
And then Maytag appears, everyone makes up and then they become the most famous radio station by just having threesomes.

bulmabriefs144

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Re: Chapter 50: Discussion
« Reply #15 on: March 09, 2018, 04:20:46 pm »
I've thinking she's pushed herself beyond 3rd, 4th, and probably even 5th. Her symptoms are probably like when an athlete pushes beyond inhibitors and rips muscles. Her brain has created spurs because her power is overextended.
"この世界の悪があれば本当に、それは人類の心の内にあります."
(Truly, if there is evil in this world, it lies within the heart of mankind)
—Edward D. Morrison

sunphoenix

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Re: Chapter 50: Discussion
« Reply #16 on: March 11, 2018, 07:10:47 am »
Or.. considering what we know of the world's "true" nature of magic... those spurs are nano-reserve/production factories that either construct and/or store more Qualia than any normal person would have access to.  But you are right Suspiria, may very well be a Level 6 Sorcerer!

I hope Crest gets to kiss her before she vanishes again... she needs some one to tell her she is NOT a monster!

I, at least, think she's beautiful... strange and out of the ordinary... but no less in need of OR deserving of love.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2018, 07:13:45 am by sunphoenix »
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein


sunphoenix

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Re: Chapter 50: Discussion
« Reply #17 on: March 12, 2018, 08:12:10 pm »
Wwweeelll now... 'Stick THAT in your pipe and smoke it!'
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein


bulmabriefs144

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Re: Chapter 50: Discussion
« Reply #18 on: March 13, 2018, 04:03:09 am »
Or.. considering what we know of the world's "true" nature of magic... those spurs are nano-reserve/production factories that either construct and/or store more Qualia than any normal person would have access to.  But you are right Suspiria, may very well be a Level 6 Sorcerer!

I hope Crest gets to kiss her before she vanishes again... she needs some one to tell her she is NOT a monster!

I, at least, think she's beautiful... strange and out of the ordinary... but no less in need of OR deserving of love.

Called it! High five!  ;D

And I think so too.

 I also think this is part of the current issue right now with all the weirdness going down. Bloody Mary is responsible for some stuff, but it's kinda like... someone with enough power lying around that they can unconsciously control the weather, only they are so moody that instead of the day being normal and sunny, it goes from sun the day before, to damp weather to a sudden freak snowstorm.

I think what Melter is getting at is there is alot of power to her, but as she is used to being lower level, the sudden bloom of her power means much of it is ambient reality warping energy that isnt really well-controlled. So in some ways, until she gets herself calmed down, alot of what she does is probasbly passively bdangerous for those she loves.
"この世界の悪があれば本当に、それは人類の心の内にあります."
(Truly, if there is evil in this world, it lies within the heart of mankind)
—Edward D. Morrison

SAGG

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Re: Chapter 50: Discussion
« Reply #19 on: March 13, 2018, 03:25:29 pm »
Soooo, Level Six to Seven is what, wussy or powerful?  ???

bulmabriefs144

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Re: Chapter 50: Discussion
« Reply #20 on: March 13, 2018, 06:33:54 pm »
Let's put it this way.

Western area is normally capped at level 3 due to some limitation in how they use magic. Seed of power normally at 4.

They sorta talked about Potency, and how even two level 3 wizards aren't necessarily as good as each other.

http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=537

Look at Noventia. While she was Level 3, Suspiria's Potency was almost double hers (likewise Regina to Moss, and Dice to Noventia), so Level 3 to 4 is not just an incremental, but potentially exponential increase in power. 
"この世界の悪があれば本当に、それは人類の心の内にあります."
(Truly, if there is evil in this world, it lies within the heart of mankind)
—Edward D. Morrison

SAGG

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Re: Chapter 50: Discussion
« Reply #21 on: March 13, 2018, 07:49:20 pm »
Let's put it this way.

Western area is normally capped at level 3 due to some limitation in how they use magic. Seed of power normally at 4.

They sorta talked about Potency, and how even two level 3 wizards aren't necessarily as good as each other.

http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=537

Look at Noventia. While she was Level 3, Suspiria's Potency was almost double hers (likewise Regina to Moss, and Dice to Noventia), so Level 3 to 4 is not just an incremental, but potentially exponential increase in power.
Okay, thanks...😁

bulmabriefs144

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Re: Chapter 50: Discussion
« Reply #22 on: March 14, 2018, 10:12:49 pm »
Lemme guess... she kinda would have failed all of them if she didn't push through somehow.

Her temper flareups especially vs the Conclave and old classmates.

The fact that these spikes have appeared is probably a good indicator her sense of self is not in control.

And the reality distortions... and probably her doing. As is her inability to distinguish whether her parents are alive or dead.

I don't think she needs to take a de facto dissolving test, so much as understand what each test represents. When she does this, her power is back under rein. Until she manages it, she might have backfires (wanting to create ice, and getting fire) or unconscious magic happening around her.
"この世界の悪があれば本当に、それは人類の心の内にあります."
(Truly, if there is evil in this world, it lies within the heart of mankind)
—Edward D. Morrison

sunphoenix

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Re: Chapter 50: Discussion
« Reply #23 on: March 15, 2018, 06:51:13 am »
Y'know... Melter is kind cute in that creepy kid way.  I think he is actually trying to help Suspiria work her way mentally through the power coursing through her.  Weird as that is...
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein


Kamui

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Re: Chapter 50: Discussion
« Reply #24 on: March 24, 2018, 12:28:31 am »
I mean, technically there's a lot you could gain from lying to Suspiria, Melter.  You said yourself that she's already gotten the power to subconsciously warp actual reality to suit what she perceives to be reality, so that alone would be an incentive.  There's also the question of WHY you're telling the group all this, and what you plan to do afterwards.  If you want Suspiria to turn herself over to you to take those dissolving tests, well that's certainly something where going "we're the only ones that know what's going on" would be a huge help.

Finally, one question still has not been answered.  Are Suspiria's parents ACTUALLY alive?  And if so, why did she believe that the Enclave had killed them and thus do her reality warping deal to make the Enclave "admit" to it?  And if they had killed Suspiria's parents for whatever reason, the Qtalda or whatever her name was (the masked lady) most certainly would have strong incentive to make those that would be sympathetic to Suspiria turn against her or question her sanity.  Main thing we need to know is why Suspiria thought her parents were dead, and why she believed it was the Enclave that killed them.

sunphoenix

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Re: Chapter 50: Discussion
« Reply #25 on: March 25, 2018, 05:12:36 am »
If her head 'no pun intended', has not been messed with by Lehm 'Thin-man' and Company... then there is no reason not to suspect that the events that Crest witnessed did not proceed as we saw in the comic.  HE WAS there when the Enclave ADMITTED to siding with Qtalda in killing her parents to gain control of her.  If I recall correctly, they even threatened to 'take care of' Crest for witnessing it all as they effectively told the Enclave leader he was a mere puppet-head and they had been doing things on Qtalda's orders for some time
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein


Kamui

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Re: Chapter 50: Discussion
« Reply #26 on: March 26, 2018, 07:49:14 am »
I believe that what p24 states is that Suspiria subconsciously alters reality to suit her perception of it.  This supposedly extends not only to herself, but to stuff around her as well.  AKA she COULD be what's been causing the town the group's currently in to be wonky, and she could've subconsciously altered the minds of the Enclave present to suit her reality as well.  Basically if Melter is to be believed, then Suspiria changes reality itself according to what she believes to be true without any active effort on her part.

sunphoenix

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Re: Chapter 50: Discussion
« Reply #27 on: March 26, 2018, 02:03:35 pm »
That would make her the most powerful wizard .... likely ever!!! But I must agree.... that could be what actually is going on. But what seems wonky about it is this.... if she has the power to make the Enclave leadership admit to things they did not do because she can impose her perceptions on reality.... why is it Crest and the rest of the Phalanx seem to even be able to question the reality as she imposes it? Would not their actions and minds be altered as well to fit her imposed paradigm?

And, why is it so important for Melter to get Crest... a non-spellcasting jafo to agree or validate his claim? Why is Crest being put on the center stage here by Melter?  Why is Crest's acceptance more important the the phalanx wizards present?
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein


bulmabriefs144

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Re: Chapter 50: Discussion
« Reply #28 on: March 26, 2018, 09:41:57 pm »
If her head 'no pun intended', has not been messed with by Lehm 'Thin-man' and Company... then there is no reason not to suspect that the events that Crest witnessed did not proceed as we saw in the comic.  HE WAS there when the Enclave ADMITTED to siding with Qtalda in killing her parents to gain control of her.  If I recall correctly, they even threatened to 'take care of' Crest for witnessing it all as they effectively told the Enclave leader he was a mere puppet-head and they had been doing things on Qtalda's orders for some time

I think Kamui is correct. She's not controlling this. It's more like... she hates Qtalda so Qtalda becomes the villain. This does not mean Qtalda is blameless, he could very well STILL be a manipulative asshole, but Qtalda didnt kill her parents. Or did, but part of reality warping involves temporal reversion (an alt revive effect). She remembers her parents killed  but then these strangers that looked like them came along and she figures they arent real when actually they died and she reverted them.

Here's the weird part though. She's saying he's a liar. The temptation is to think he is lying about her powers, but that part actually makes sense. What I think she thinks he's lying about is the timeline. The "fake" parents probably showed up before Danzig so she reasons this is the issue with this story. It isn't though. Reality warping as I said includes temporal reversion. So... what if later Suspiria gained control of her power, and realizing she headed down a dark path without her parents around, decided to bring them back to give herself a different path. Would it look like she got altered before then? Yes. But actually, it's her trying to do herself a favor that she doesnt yet underrstand.

Sunphoenix, that's easy. Because if he is being truthful, he knows that to make her see sense requires someone who cares for her and vice versa making it plausible.
"この世界の悪があれば本当に、それは人類の心の内にあります."
(Truly, if there is evil in this world, it lies within the heart of mankind)
—Edward D. Morrison

sunphoenix

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Re: Chapter 50: Discussion
« Reply #29 on: March 27, 2018, 05:24:51 am »
Yeha, I get why convincing Crest might be important to any strategy to talk Suspiria down ,but how would Melter know anything about the relationship between Crest and Suspiria? Crest has not been exactly  publicly declaring his love for her on the street corners! In fact he's not really discussed his feelings for her with anyone directly confirming or denying one way or another. Moby inferred that he might still be 'hung up' on her but Crest never confirmed one way or another...  as usual Crest has been rather shy in expressing his feelings about any woman openly. He has shown himself to be a rather private young man. And the only one alive who we can identify who was there when Suspiria declared her love for Crest IS Crest and Qtalda. I don't think Qtalda and Melter are on speaking terms. So how would Melter have any clue that getting Crest to agree with him is the key to Suspiria?

As far as reality warp affecting time.... I'm not sure I can agree with that for one reason we know the source of "magic" in this world it is not 'Magic' at all! Matter and energy manipulating buy altering nanites ~ qualia, I can go with; but time/space altering, how could such massive reality temporal alteration with such very specific details be done with out massive machinery or horrible temporal paradoxes be created? I'm just not buying that.

I again fall to "Akum's Razor" (sp?).... isn't the simplest answer more likely that Qtalda did in fact murder her parents and has simply used mind altering 'magic' on people to cover her tracks?
« Last Edit: March 27, 2018, 05:28:29 am by sunphoenix »
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein