Author Topic: Chapter 49: Discussion  (Read 4584 times)

SirBananaPie

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Re: Chapter 49: Discussion
« Reply #60 on: November 16, 2017, 04:41:57 am »
Yeah, they're giving the Phalanx a bad name. Or, if they were just hypnotized to act this way, they merely look weak. So, pretty much anyone besides Q'talda and that elderly guy who was able to resist Suspiria's hypnotism (but still died afair) reminds me of this:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheWorfEffect

Maybe it's because the Phalanx had to be replaced almost entirely, so now there's a bunch of Noobs in power.

sunphoenix

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Re: Chapter 49: Discussion
« Reply #61 on: November 16, 2017, 04:46:10 am »
Meh, I'm not so sure... I agree the  Rape-Lev has gone up several notches... but I think Regina is just fine with the guy she has shown interest in... though indeed his {if it even IS actually him right now as he seems under some weird exterior influence right now}... is seriously on the creepy level.  But I think Moby Needs a man like Crest almost as much as he needs a woman like her... he's so repressed and she's so forward... I think they would be good for each other.  Moby's current approach is not necessarily out of character for her... but with their previous 'encounter'... something is clearly off. Moby seems more likely to have more self possession of herself her dignity than to come crawling naked begging to some man's bed... THAT seems out of character for her. 

Whatever influence is affecting the others... it seems it is an imperfect influence as Crest, Regina, and the other Raven -haired girl seem to be unaffected or at least resisting the weirdness influence...

And could some one post a listing of all the character names...?  I'm having trouble remembering all their names... Thx.
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein


SirBananaPie

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Re: Chapter 49: Discussion
« Reply #62 on: November 17, 2017, 12:39:51 am »
I dunno about the sex thing... I think Crest and Regina need someone to open their hearts to, not just someone for plugging genitals together. But one of the things this comic rides on is showing the occasional naked female body, so I figured it's simply that time of the comic again. :P That's why Moby and that Dude got to be in Phalanx. Competence is overrated. 8) Only Q'talda gets to be competent. The rest is just there to get Worfed.

I agree on the character list. I read about two dozen web comics and I keep forgetting names in literally all of them. Character galleries help sooo much, but unfortunately not many comics have them.

SAGG

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Re: Chapter 49: Discussion
« Reply #63 on: November 17, 2017, 03:37:02 am »
Okay, this is beyond creepy. Yet it's quite timely given what's going on with what some men are doing these days to some women, don't you all think? 😞

SirBananaPie

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Re: Chapter 49: Discussion
« Reply #64 on: November 17, 2017, 07:01:16 am »
If you refer to sexual abuse in reality, then sadly the problem is way bigger than what happened recently, because it has happened throughout our entire history. What is happening nowadays is that more and more of that horrible stuff comes to light, because more and more people actually care about it. Also thanks to the internet, victims can make themselves heard a lot louder (see #metoo).

bulmabriefs144

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Re: Chapter 49: Discussion
« Reply #65 on: November 17, 2017, 08:34:02 pm »
Yeah, they're giving the Phalanx a bad name. Or, if they were just hypnotized to act this way, they merely look weak. So, pretty much anyone besides Q'talda and that elderly guy who was able to resist Suspiria's hypnotism (but still died afair) reminds me of this:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheWorfEffect

Maybe it's because the Phalanx had to be replaced almost entirely, so now there's a bunch of Noobs in power.

Are we in fact sure that Suspiria has hypnotism? Crest believes this, but Crest is also getting fooled by this weirdness. For that matter...
http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=2839
This question remains. Not only is Suspiria in a position that her revenge couldn't be justified even with a confession, but it basically shows her as more confused than her allies.
http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=2845
And this. Only thing that makes sense, Suspiria wasn't hypnotizing anyone, because she was controlled too.

Another thought.
http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=1819
http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=1821
Using scams and accomplices. I don't believe Mr. Smoker Guy is a bad, I think he's a dupe too. However...
  • Who led the party to that weird inn? (Glyph)
  • Who led them to the town of Convergence? (Vennice) Who asked for this info? (Glyph again)
  • Who verified the story of the parents when Mr. Smoker Guy believed he saw them for years? (Glyph, Vennice, Moby)
  • Who tried to seduce him?(Moby) And Regina? (Glyph)
   

We currently don't know what is in fact going on, but it seems like they aren't as innocent as they appear.
"この世界の悪があれば本当に、それは人類の心の内にあります."
(Truly, if there is evil in this world, it lies within the heart of mankind)
—Edward D. Morrison

sunphoenix

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Re: Chapter 49: Discussion
« Reply #66 on: November 19, 2017, 09:19:06 am »
Sorry... but I'm still not buying that Suspiria is mad, or delusional.. I think she is quite certain and quite correct... but she might have been misled as to whom Qtalda really is and WHY her parents were killed, replaced, duplicated, or just plan mind-screwed as everyone else I'm thinking.. 

Clearly, Melter, was thought to be a minion of Lem... but who is REALLY pulling Lem's strings?
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein


weirdguy

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Re: Chapter 49: Discussion
« Reply #67 on: November 19, 2017, 09:47:13 pm »
oh no, they've caught the naked disease

MaronaPossessed

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Re: Chapter 49: Discussion
« Reply #68 on: November 20, 2017, 08:00:41 am »
Now I instantly hate that girl.

Kiran

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Re: Chapter 49: Discussion
« Reply #69 on: November 20, 2017, 10:25:02 am »
It kinda makes me wonder why people are thinking that of what we are seeing in recent pages to be some mind/behaviour manipulation?

Moby is really into Crest and as we saw already she doesn't take no for an answer plus she can't really live it in that someone can reject her after she would go with her full attack mode. She isn't really acting OOC if what Vennice are saying about them to be true. Poor girl simply doesn't know what to do with her feelings and this is the only sad way she can express herself.

And maybe who knows, Crest will get raped and he will lose his pesky virginity once and for all ;)
It would be a really rare thing to see a male character dealing with rape issue from being forced into sex by a woman.
In previous chapters we saw Polly getting turned into sex slave for Bern sake, Bern and Polly making out to some guy watching pleasure, we saw May getting abused to reach the truth in really horrible way, so maybe it's Crest time to finally get as much sexual, humilitation or abusing attention other MCs get in the comic too for once?

Also seeing what Glyph is doing he really took a liking to Regina, and as we saw Regina took a liking to him too, so maybe it might be mutual and just natural to happen in such stressfull environment they are now.

The only way I could take it as something unnatural/mind control is if Vennice would suddenly go for Buzz, since both of them of what we saw so far weren't really interested in things like that and that would be OOC.

bulmabriefs144

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Re: Chapter 49: Discussion
« Reply #70 on: November 20, 2017, 05:36:55 pm »
I'll say it again. There is something not right about these three.


Individually, these seem like separate actions. But all of these served to string Regina and Crest along, to get them to join up in this "investigation." It feels more like a Body Snatcher plot to me. Like at some point, they get their fangs in (so to speak) and try to change them into their way of thinking. 
"この世界の悪があれば本当に、それは人類の心の内にあります."
(Truly, if there is evil in this world, it lies within the heart of mankind)
—Edward D. Morrison


sunphoenix

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Re: Chapter 49: Discussion
« Reply #72 on: November 22, 2017, 12:47:01 pm »
OH..CRAP!!!

...is the knife for him.. or for her?!?  She needs a bloody suicide by a guy she likes almost as much as she needs her throat slit by a guy she likes!
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein


bulmabriefs144

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Re: Chapter 49: Discussion
« Reply #73 on: November 22, 2017, 03:15:09 pm »
A woman needs a suicide like a fish needs a bicycle.
"この世界の悪があれば本当に、それは人類の心の内にあります."
(Truly, if there is evil in this world, it lies within the heart of mankind)
—Edward D. Morrison

SirBananaPie

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Re: Chapter 49: Discussion
« Reply #74 on: November 23, 2017, 01:08:53 am »
It's so good to see that there's at least one character in the "Phalanx" who admits to being no good. He can be the apple:
"Hey, hey what's-your-name! Hey!"
"What?"
"KNIFE!!!"

Annoying Orange

And Moby can be next for all I care.

sunphoenix

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Re: Chapter 49: Discussion
« Reply #75 on: November 23, 2017, 09:19:36 am »
I guess.. I'm just a bit more forgiving?  I truly do not wish to see anyone die or be punished if they can admit that their lives have not been lived well, their choices and motivations clearly not in their or anyone else's actual best interested IF they are truly sorry and wish to try to make changes in their lives to make a concerted effort to make amends and become better people instead in their future.

I must believe in repentance and redemption... or what's the point in life?  We ALL have done things in our lives that in hindsight were bad choices, selfish, cruel or just plain thoughtless.  We all need forgiveness for the things we have done to others that we may not even realize... if there is no redemption, no chance of repenting from our misdeeds... if there is no forgiveness ~ then there truly is no hope.  I know I need forgiveness for the things I have done, either knowingly or worse... unwittingly.

My point is.. the Phalanx are just like everyone else..they are not perfect they are not without flaws. 

Moby is a professed Nihilst... that's a pretty bleak way to look at life nothing matters but the now of desire.. no future, no hope.. no true love.  Love is not a thing of only the now... it is an undying desire to put someone else's well being before your own.  We all need love.. lust can trick us with gratification.. but it is hollow in the end.. like a 'drug high' is far too soon over.. it leaves you with nothing to live on.  But love.. is a light in your heart that never fades and warms you in the darkest most hopeless moments.  Moby has nothing like that... so though I find ANY form of rape offensive.. I understand what she might be feeling... its not right but what I think she really needs is someone to love her unreservedly.  She thinks sex will satisfy the gaping hole in her heart.. and she is wrong.. its just all she knows.. cause she has no hope.. and no love.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2017, 09:24:04 am by sunphoenix »
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein


bulmabriefs144

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Re: Chapter 49: Discussion
« Reply #76 on: November 23, 2017, 08:03:05 pm »
Ironically, I think life is two unhealthy extremes.

To loosely paraphrase the Bible there is the person who says they are without sin (who "deceives themselves") basically an arrogant jerk who can never admit their faults. Alot of the reason people shy away from churches is because there are entirely too many moral Pharisee types here. This is why Jesus, if they were here today, probably wouldn't attend church.
But that's not the whole story. One of the first things God says after humans eat that fruit (it's not actually an apple), is "who told you that you were naked?" Now this sounds like a throwaway line but it's not. The implication here is that (without the fruit) they would not have a superego telling them "I'm naked, I should be ashamed!" Honestly, guilt's most of sin right there, not the action itself.

In science, the superego is often held up as a moral paragon, while the id and ego are looked upon as lesser drives. But tbh, if we had a little less misplaced guilt and more "this was definitely wrong, but I'll see what I can do" less people would commit suicide. Which is why I don't share your optimism about people who show regret dying or being punished. Yes they shouldn't be, but honestly, most punishment is actually self-inflicted.

From my life, 2/3 of it was, despite not being Catholic (like the link above), a struggle with working to prove myself, constantly falling short, and feeling miserable led me to an eventual struggle with depression. It was only after I read two secular books (why I don't believe in "holy" books anymore, my healing was not from the hotel Gideon but from the psych section) which helped me significantly: When Panic Attacks and The Gifts of Imperfection. Both were saying exactly the same thing, that humans spend entirely too much energy trying to be perfect, and measure up to others.

For my work the day before Thanksgiving, we had to mark notecards with a green dot and stick them into packs or 20. Between OCD counting and recounting these damned cards for quantity, and and the fact that my coworker seemed to be flying through this while my hands were fumbling through each card trying to unstick them from the pile, it was slow going. I got screwed up precisely because I started to compare myself to her. But the point is, I was thankful we got the job done regardless.

It's easy to beat yourself up and stuff but that's part of despair.
"この世界の悪があれば本当に、それは人類の心の内にあります."
(Truly, if there is evil in this world, it lies within the heart of mankind)
—Edward D. Morrison

SirBananaPie

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Re: Chapter 49: Discussion
« Reply #77 on: November 24, 2017, 02:12:38 am »
Yeah, in Real Life I agree. When it comes to fictional characters however, I just like to be heartless sometimes. ::) Unworthy characters can just stay away from the story, so we can focus on the ones which are actually competent instead. So the so-called "Phalanx" can go get Worfed somewhere else for all I care. Except for Q'talda. I like her.

Of course there's always the option of them prooving themselves, but Moby isn't doing a good job at it. Knife-dude is a nice guy I guess. So let's see who is actually competent.

bulmabriefs144

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Re: Chapter 49: Discussion
« Reply #78 on: November 24, 2017, 05:21:48 am »
Oh don't misunderstand, I'm not saying I want someone like Glyph to off themselves. The exact opposite actually. I'm saying "feeling remorseful" doesn't tend to go well with "staying alive." Even though typically remorseless characters are likely the ones that everyone wants to kill off in either case.

Unless they've got an axe to grind. I've been watching Hollywood try to defend these molesters, and it's a prudish standard for us common folk but for Weinstein, who probably is unrepentant of all the people who screwed (literally), they defend him because they owe their jobs to him.

Also, I really really hate Moby. Even though Crest kinda does need to understand that his early behavior to Maytag wasn't cool. He was kinda all "let's make out" even after she was like... actually, I need to re-read this part to see if Crest remotely deserves any of this, but I'm gonna bet odds on "not a chance in hell."

http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=195

Gasp, I knew it! Crest is evil.  ;D It looks like the only thing Crest is guilty of is being too decent (not a compliment, he basically told her that she's scum for cheating on her boyfriend).   
"この世界の悪があれば本当に、それは人類の心の内にあります."
(Truly, if there is evil in this world, it lies within the heart of mankind)
—Edward D. Morrison

Kiran

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Re: Chapter 49: Discussion
« Reply #79 on: November 24, 2017, 11:11:09 am »
Gasp, I knew it! Crest is evil.  ;D It looks like the only thing Crest is guilty of is being too decent (not a compliment, he basically told her that she's scum for cheating on her boyfriend).
Look what being decent and trying to be a good 'wife' to Maytag done to Bern over the course of the comic?
Decent characters always get the bad moments, especially females, so it would be nice to at least once see things done to Crest like they were done many times to either Maytag or Bern or Polly just for wanting to act in a good way for someone.
In a way I want to see some kind of equality in either abuse or humilitation done to Crest on similiar level that was done to May and Bern in their chapters since he is basically a 3rd MC of this comic.
But then Crest is a guy so maybe he will get spared since it's easier to do such things to female characters.

bulmabriefs144

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Re: Chapter 49: Discussion
« Reply #80 on: November 24, 2017, 01:55:53 pm »
Geez, you're rough!  :o

Also, not entirely true. This trope is common because men tend to have self-induced guilt for their entire gender for what the worst ones do.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DoubleStandardAbuseFemaleOnMale
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/UsefulNotes/Abuse

It's generally seen as hard or impossible to abuse men, but this is simply not true.

Bottom line, even if it were equal, Crest doesn't deserve this stuff any more than they did.

"この世界の悪があれば本当に、それは人類の心の内にあります."
(Truly, if there is evil in this world, it lies within the heart of mankind)
—Edward D. Morrison

SAGG

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Re: Chapter 49: Discussion
« Reply #81 on: November 27, 2017, 02:32:53 pm »
Yeah, Suspira's working some magic around here, I'm sure of it...

Kiran

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Re: Chapter 49: Discussion
« Reply #82 on: November 27, 2017, 03:09:19 pm »
Geez, you're rough!  :o

Also, not entirely true. This trope is common because men tend to have self-induced guilt for their entire gender for what the worst ones do.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DoubleStandardAbuseFemaleOnMale
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/UsefulNotes/Abuse

It's generally seen as hard or impossible to abuse men, but this is simply not true.

Bottom line, even if it were equal, Crest doesn't deserve this stuff any more than they did.
Of course but if author decided to abuse the female MCs in both physical and also sexual way so many times already for various reasons, then won't you agree that a 3rd MC too should get a piece of that ugly pie for equality reasoning?
Bern didn't deserve most of the things which happened to her, basically from start of the story with Maytag cheating spree, but as we see they happened.
I know it's more welcomed to do such things to female characters cause it sells better as fanservice motive and abusing females is more common than guys, especially seeing the good honest female pushed into doing dirty things she is ashamed of doing etc. but Crest is basically male version of Bern as morals and monogamous feelings go, so I want to see him getting broken as Bern was pushed to do or at least have a hints of that from psychological standpoint, give him some depth than throwing new girls at him as his character developoment :P
If a person is an MC of the comic he deserves same fate like other characters, gender should not be any excuse here to not give such fate to Crest.
Basically it actually would be interesting to see Crest pushed in similiar way like Bern, May and finally Polly were, to have sex to earn his freedom or to save someone, and then be sulking about it after. But like I said I don't think this comic will ever go that way for guys since i bet many readers self-insert too much into Crest persona than trying to judge him as actually important character in the story they prefer him as joke harem protag...

bulmabriefs144

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Re: Chapter 49: Discussion
« Reply #83 on: November 27, 2017, 06:46:50 pm »
Pffft, fairness.

Somewhere I have a FB post of three ppl stuck in... fecal matter.

One has significantly less than the others, and the two squawk at this, saying it's unfair that he isn't in as much as them. The point he immediately brings up is "shouldn't we be trying to find a way OUT of this crap?" It was a joke, but pretty spot on. When we tear down people who are actively trying to fix things, what good have we really done?

I happen to be white, but I give to charities and at my job I try to help all kinds of people out. I am not rich by any stretch, but people who would accuse me of "white privilege" and take my last dime would succeed only in making one less person help them out.

Crest does not deserve to be raped. Nor did May deserve to be stripped naked, or Bern/Polly to be sexually and financially abused. Life does happen, but we much never believe rape is part of "justice".
"この世界の悪があれば本当に、それは人類の心の内にあります."
(Truly, if there is evil in this world, it lies within the heart of mankind)
—Edward D. Morrison

Deuce

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Re: Chapter 49: Discussion
« Reply #84 on: November 29, 2017, 03:00:47 pm »
No one deserves to be raped. But lots of people get raped, women and men, and it needs to be addressed. Which is why it's important to have it presented in an equal manner in fiction. I don't like what's going on here, but I appreciate that Brion is including it as part of his story.

MaronaPossessed

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Re: Chapter 49: Discussion
« Reply #85 on: November 29, 2017, 03:17:39 pm »
*grabs popcorn and eats*
...what?! it's not often you see something like this in a story!

SirBananaPie

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Re: Chapter 49: Discussion
« Reply #86 on: November 29, 2017, 11:49:50 pm »
No one deserves to be raped. But lots of people get raped, women and men, and it needs to be addressed. Which is why it's important to have it presented in an equal manner in fiction. I don't like what's going on here, but I appreciate that Brion is including it as part of his story.
Amen to that. Couldn't have said it better myself.

Somehow I still believe Mopy[sic] isn't herself right now. Maybe some emotion-amplifying spell was placed on her or something. Same for Ms. "it's all my fault".

In panel 1 Moby's shadow in her left eye looks kinda like her pupil when watched from a distance, she at my first glance I had the impression that she became insane enough to look derp-eyed. ;D Crest should totally say "If I give you a muffin, will you let me go?"

Stargoat

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Re: Chapter 49: Discussion
« Reply #87 on: December 01, 2017, 02:05:18 pm »
Yeah. Someone's got some magic that is messing people up.

sunphoenix

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Re: Chapter 49: Discussion
« Reply #88 on: December 02, 2017, 01:53:00 pm »
Yeah. Someone's got some magic that is messing people up.

Yeah... talk about 50 shades of CRAZY...!
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein


Stargoat

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Re: Chapter 49: Discussion
« Reply #89 on: December 04, 2017, 10:08:45 am »
Yeah, Suspira's working some magic around here, I'm sure of it...

Nah, she'll save everyone. I'm convinced she's good, but just a little horny. You know. Like the rest of us.