Author Topic: Chapter 47: Discussion  (Read 15780 times)

Brion Foulke

  • Administrator
  • Experimental
  • *****
  • Posts: 770
    • AOL Instant Messenger - flipsider99
    • View Profile
    • www.flipsidecomics.com
    • Email
Re: Chapter 47: Discussion
« Reply #30 on: November 18, 2016, 01:11:26 pm »
What bothers me about Mary is that he never really explained what was the point of the regeneration experiment. And if it was a failed one, why is she still alive? Am I missing something?

You're not missing anything.  All will be explained.

monimoni

  • Collared Pet
  • *
  • Posts: 86
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 47: Discussion
« Reply #31 on: November 18, 2016, 02:06:51 pm »
Quote
Clearly...Mary is an attempt to breach stage 2: Pain.... but maytag learned it's not really injury you need to overcome. Just like melter is clearly and attempt to breach stage 1: fear....

Yes I have thought about that, but I'm not convinced. You could easily realize that all the stuff happening in phase 2 is not real, the same way Maytag realized it on her first try. Also, I am sure Mary does in fact feel pain, we have seen her reacting to pain many chapters ago. Also, Mary is invincible as long as she eats human flesh.. if phase 2 were real she would probably be just as useless as any other human. Plus why all the effort to make someone immortal when all you have to do is just step back and realize that it is not real, as Maytag put it?
« Last Edit: November 18, 2016, 02:10:36 pm by monimoni »

bulmabriefs144

  • Cage Dancer
  • **
  • Posts: 392
  • Wielder of the Sword of Sorrow
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 47: Discussion
« Reply #32 on: November 18, 2016, 02:16:01 pm »
What bothers me about Mary is that he never really explained what was the point of the regeneration experiment. And if it was a failed one, why is she still alive? Am I missing something?

"How does healing work?"

Either prior to discovering Qualia, or as part of proving them, he wanted to know:
1. How healing and offense magic worked.
2. How people are imbued with magic.
3. How specialist magic like flight or teleportation works.

Btw, the cannibalistic hunger she has? Part of the spell. To keep her healing all the time, the spell requires energy. The wounds that won't heal is a kill switch (she probably can be destroyed with her own effect by someone like Bern).

Quote
Yes I have thought about that, but I'm not convinced. You could easily realize that all the stuff happening in phase 2 is not real, the same way Maytag realized it on her first try. Also, I am sure Mary does in fact feel pain, we have seen her reacting to pain many chapters ago. Also, Mary is invincible as long as she eats human flesh.. if phase 2 were real she would probably be just as useless as any other human. Plus why all the effort to make someone immortal when all you have to do is just step back and realize that it is not real, as Maytag put it?

Lehm may not have had firsthand intel on the phases, so it is conceivable that he wasn't clear on the whole "not real" thing. We don't know he far he personally got.

Update: Hmmmm, a gambler criticizing another for making too much of a gamble. May's an idealist, but despite deaths from Bloody Mary and like, consider this. Suspiria's parents were quietly killed and replaced when they questioned the decision to enroll her (oh wait, you think any of that story is true? Look at how easily everyone's minds were messed with at that battle. Basically, everyone in the group was led into a slaughter, and Suspiria was going to be executed for a relatively minor thing, she bullied someone who bullied her, nobody was killed). The main country has crazy high taxes and some of the other hallmarks of a fascist country. One of those is that if people question too much or don't pay taxes, they disappear. The other one has an ostensibly anarchic system that feeds criminals into dueling matches to entertain until they die. To say nothing of magic made monsters like that liquid metal thing in book zero, or the tattooed woman Clairen. Dont you think maybe it would be good to shed a light on what is really running these countries?
« Last Edit: November 22, 2016, 04:12:04 am by bulmabriefs144 »
"この世界の悪があれば本当に、それは人類の心の内にあります."
(Truly, if there is evil in this world, it lies within the heart of mankind)
—Edward D. Morrison

mittfh

  • Rose Petal Acolyte
  • **
  • Posts: 116
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 47: Discussion
« Reply #33 on: November 23, 2016, 01:16:39 pm »
I wonder if Lehm's regretting his decision to recruit May as a test subject yet? :)

bulmabriefs144

  • Cage Dancer
  • **
  • Posts: 392
  • Wielder of the Sword of Sorrow
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 47: Discussion
« Reply #34 on: November 23, 2016, 09:25:23 pm »
Nah...  ;D

Because May is also brilliant and probably knows the answer to phase 3 (she certainly knows conditioning doesn't work).

What we're describing here is part of cognitive therapy, dealing with issues using the mind.

http://www.helpguide.org/articles/anxiety/therapy-for-anxiety-disorders.htm#therapies

Conditioning is also known as exposure. But there are a number of other approaches.

Honestly, I see no problems with wanting to expose the truth, I do however see a problem with some of the people Lehm trusts. These experiments being sponsored by a sketchy person, I think he could come up with these answers a better way. That is, the end actually is good, but the means isn't justified. He needs to do this right, so there are no more regrets. If he seeks the truth, but is not forward with his subjects, this doesn't work.

In fact, seeking the truth can be advantageous. An alternative to conditioning is called "Challenging Negative Thoughts."

http://www.helpguide.org/articles/anxiety/therapy-for-anxiety-disorders.htm#therapies

Challenging negative thoughts operates by looking at an unrealistic idea, one by one, and stating a more real one. Here's an example for passing out on the subway.

Quote
Negative thought #1: What if I pass out on the subway?

Cognitive distortion: Predicting the worst

More realistic thought: I’ve never passed out before, so it’s unlikely that I will on the subway.

Negative thought #2: If I pass out, it will be terrible!

Cognitive distortion: Blowing things out of proportion

More realistic thought: If I faint, I’ll come to in a few moments. That’s not so terrible.

Negative thought #3: People will think I’m crazy.

Cognitive distortion: Jumping to conclusions

More realistic thought: People are more likely to be concerned if I’m okay.

It's simple. The Dark Cell shows a negative reality and replaces everything with a false image. Even if she can't remember, she has an analytical mind, which can poke a hole at such ideas and show her the real image. Where Bern loves her.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2016, 10:08:20 pm by bulmabriefs144 »
"この世界の悪があれば本当に、それは人類の心の内にあります."
(Truly, if there is evil in this world, it lies within the heart of mankind)
—Edward D. Morrison

sunphoenix

  • Cage Dancer
  • **
  • Posts: 348
  • "..you have to give love to get love." -Wendy Pini
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Chapter 47: Discussion
« Reply #35 on: November 23, 2016, 10:35:32 pm »
Yeah.  I too beleive ...someone in this world .. or perhaps someones {plural}.. know the source of magic and are using it to their advantage and control over societies from behind the scenes. 

But if that is the case... just WHAT is the Dark Cell and what is its location that is significant to the answer of what the Qualia are?  WHY is the Dark Cell important? Why does Lehm believe that penetrating it will yield answers upon the purpose and origin of the Qualia?  Perhaps I have missed this explanation that has already been made known but I cannot remember anywhere telling us WHY the Dark Cell is important to the mystery of the Qualia-Nanite magic?

Those ALL being supplemental questions to the one I'm getting at~ IF there are people or organizations in this world aware of the Qualia and using that knowledge to their advantage... if the Dark Cell is important to understanding the Qualia.. shouldn't THEY know about the Dark Cell as well? If not.. why don't they know about it?  If the Dark Cell is important... why have THEY not secured it from investigation by the curious.. who might gain knowledge or access to the Qualia and thus potentially Threaten their monopoly on manipulating such knowlegde to their advantage?

... basically a SHIT-TON of Questions about the ENTIRE PREMISE... that has NOT been even hinted at answers for? 

tl;dr version - WTF?!?

And yes I do believe Maytag has figured out how to pass Stage 3... she is now fishing for information and trying to discover, if what Lehm is saying is true, is it in the world's best interests for her to even do this?  "Just because you can do a thing.. does not mean you should!" Money is not really May's motivator anymore.. SHE IS thinking seriously about this and is not sure the answer reveled~ is necessarily in everyone's {or her} best interests!  I don't think she feels people not knowing the truth about magic is necessarily a bad thing. Not knowing has not hurt people thus far and magic IS useful.  Magic is not broke.. so why bother trying to figure out how or why it works and potentially risk screwing things up for EVERYONE somehow?

Plus, she HAS NO idea what breaching the third phase will do to her.. and she can see someone went through a Hella lot of effort to keep anyone from breaching this mystery... her life could VERY WELL be in danger.. and she CERTAINLY wants to see Bernadette again!  No secret~ no matter HOW profound it might potentially prove to be, is worth loosing her love for Bern or risking May's chance at living a life with Bernadette in it!
« Last Edit: November 23, 2016, 10:42:28 pm by sunphoenix »
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein


bulmabriefs144

  • Cage Dancer
  • **
  • Posts: 392
  • Wielder of the Sword of Sorrow
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 47: Discussion
« Reply #36 on: November 24, 2016, 05:11:40 am »
Yeah.  I too beleive ...someone in this world .. or perhaps someones {plural}.. know the source of magic and are using it to their advantage and control over societies from behind the scenes. 

But if that is the case... just WHAT is the Dark Cell and what is its location that is significant to the answer of what the Qualia are?  WHY is the Dark Cell important? Why does Lehm believe that penetrating it will yield answers upon the purpose and origin of the Qualia?  Perhaps I have missed this explanation that has already been made known but I cannot remember anywhere telling us WHY the Dark Cell is important to the mystery of the Qualia-Nanite magic?

Those ALL being supplemental questions to the one I'm getting at~ IF there are people or organizations in this world aware of the Qualia and using that knowledge to their advantage... if the Dark Cell is important to understanding the Qualia.. shouldn't THEY know about the Dark Cell as well? If not.. why don't they know about it?  If the Dark Cell is important... why have THEY not secured it from investigation by the curious.. who might gain knowledge or access to the Qualia and thus potentially Threaten their monopoly on manipulating such knowlegde to their advantage?

... basically a SHIT-TON of Questions about the ENTIRE PREMISE... that has NOT been even hinted at answers for? 

tl;dr version - WTF?!?

And yes I do believe Maytag has figured out how to pass Stage 3... she is now fishing for information and trying to discover, if what Lehm is saying is true, is it in the world's best interests for her to even do this?  "Just because you can do a thing.. does not mean you should!" Money is not really May's motivator anymore.. SHE IS thinking seriously about this and is not sure the answer reveled~ is necessarily in everyone's {or her} best interests!  I don't think she feels people not knowing the truth about magic is necessarily a bad thing. Not knowing has not hurt people thus far and magic IS useful.  Magic is not broke.. so why bother trying to figure out how or why it works and potentially risk screwing things up for EVERYONE somehow?

Plus, she HAS NO idea what breaching the third phase will do to her.. and she can see someone went through a Hella lot of effort to keep anyone from breaching this mystery... her life could VERY WELL be in danger.. and she CERTAINLY wants to see Bernadette again!  No secret~ no matter HOW profound it might potentially prove to be, is worth loosing her love for Bern or risking May's chance at living a life with Bernadette in it!

From what I can gather, reading btwn the lines, asking about who created the qualia caused the stylus to suddenly stop. While the Dark Cell may not have caused such a reaction, I'm sure you can understand the difficulty of finding out anything trying to paint an area of perfect darkness. He probably asked "Is there any area that I could go to in order to find the answers that you cannot tell me?" And it showed the entrance to the Dark Cell.

Mmmmm. And this is indeed true. I had a conversation about science and ethics yesterday. Given sufficient drive we could develop Skynet in real life, but that not in humanity's best interest. You do have to consider the ethics of a decision.

On the other hand, well since Lehm mentioned oppression lets consider a government. In a government where its incompetence and active hostility to its citizens is NOT exposed, you can have some serious abuse to the citizens. We could talk about Cold War Russia or China.
But we have a better example of secrecy than that, and yes it does matter that people know. I watched a film called The Big Uneasy. It was about how there was a complete denial about the Hurrican Katrina failure. Basicallty, three things went wrong. They cut a canal that fiunneled water into the city, and they hoired one construction team that was basoically govt employed(the army corps of engineers) to put a particular damming system. Now the Corps is great for overseas military actions, but many of its original engineers are long since retired and the dams they built failed in test, so rather than telling them that, they hid thre results sand lowered the test until it passed. Before this canal, it was bad because of crappy pipingbut not to the point where water slid in through the pipelines and wiped out whole streets. Then there was also the matter of building on marshland, which drains much of the floodwater. If people had lknown stuff like this, rather than continuing to call it a "natural disaster", people from landscaping and construction would show up at the doorstep to plant natural systems, and to build cheaper and better dams.

Back to Maytag. While there are useful things about magic, humans can conceivably work with other systems. And you have to remember there are a great number of magical attrocities that have been happening quietly. Bloody Mary for instance is a result of healing magic. Even though Lehm did create her, he used the same regeneration system that regrew May's arm.  That is, Lehm created a regenerating person, and the result was that her body became parasitic requiring people to sustain itself. The fail wasnt with Lehm good intentions so much with his methods, the magical system being used. In Book 0, we also see monsters. These are misuse of such tech. And what about the dissolving test? Its a VR system that convinces people they are more powerful. But we saw the effect of this system in Suspiria. She basically had such distorted mental state that she wasnt sure whether her parents were real or not and was clearly emotionally unstable. In other words, this system basically fries your brain. It is closer to having various helmets installed that can call qualia. With each upgrade, the load on your brain is that much higher, until ypou are almost frying synapses to maintain a delusion of power. Yes, magic is broken. Knowing what magic is means that people may be able to invent other means of carrying stuff out using items... rather than plugging their brains in. It does seem to need doing.

So this brings the last worry, that she may die. Honestly, if there were so many good candidates, I think this is the one remaining deal, because they probably did find a (wrong) way to conquer the system. Which just means rather than quit because of the risk, she needs to expose the truth, and hold herself together for her love. To bring the truth back with her. Since making it to the end is not a success if nobody knows the truth (it's not like The Giver where crossing the threshold unerases everyone's mind).
"この世界の悪があれば本当に、それは人類の心の内にあります."
(Truly, if there is evil in this world, it lies within the heart of mankind)
—Edward D. Morrison

MaronaPossessed

  • Collared Pet
  • *
  • Posts: 53
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 47: Discussion
« Reply #37 on: November 25, 2016, 01:36:03 pm »
"Hey Bern, ready to stuff the bird? ;)"
"I forgot she makes a dirty joke out of everything..."

bulmabriefs144

  • Cage Dancer
  • **
  • Posts: 392
  • Wielder of the Sword of Sorrow
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 47: Discussion
« Reply #38 on: November 28, 2016, 09:31:52 pm »
Ohhhh...

The cheerleader in Heroes.

And that's all I'll say.
"この世界の悪があれば本当に、それは人類の心の内にあります."
(Truly, if there is evil in this world, it lies within the heart of mankind)
—Edward D. Morrison

monimoni

  • Collared Pet
  • *
  • Posts: 86
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 47: Discussion
« Reply #39 on: November 30, 2016, 03:13:06 pm »
May has solid arguments. So in this universe they can grow body parts like it's no big deal. For Mary it doesn't seem to matter which part she is eating, it just has to be human. The main disadvantage would be that you need a bunch of high level healers or something to do this consistently, which requires a lot of resources, which Lehm obviously has. Or, from a more real-world point of view, a high level sorcerer/scientist dude such as Lehm could easily find out what it is that makes the flesh "human" and try to make animals or whatever with "human" flesh.
I'm guessing this is not only about regeneration itself, the psychological aspect might also have had a role in her "development", to get rid of her humanity.. like they intended to create what you would call a monster, with no feelings or mercy or such. That, or he just doesn't care.
However, Maytag had a huge impact on Mary, I think. As we've last seen of her, she decided to eat bad people instead, which Lehm knows nothing about. I like where this is going.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2016, 03:29:17 pm by monimoni »

Keneto

  • Tender Young Virgin
  • *
  • Posts: 12
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 47: Discussion
« Reply #40 on: November 30, 2016, 05:35:16 pm »
Dear Maytag

I realize you've defeated Dark Cell and are only toying with the thin man before your majestic reveal, however please remember he can vaporize you if you get him angry enough.

bulmabriefs144

  • Cage Dancer
  • **
  • Posts: 392
  • Wielder of the Sword of Sorrow
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 47: Discussion
« Reply #41 on: December 01, 2016, 07:05:48 pm »
You tell 'em, Lehm. The truth is out there.

"この世界の悪があれば本当に、それは人類の心の内にあります."
(Truly, if there is evil in this world, it lies within the heart of mankind)
—Edward D. Morrison

sunphoenix

  • Cage Dancer
  • **
  • Posts: 348
  • "..you have to give love to get love." -Wendy Pini
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Chapter 47: Discussion
« Reply #42 on: December 01, 2016, 10:11:18 pm »
Lehm - "And number three...  How do I put this... This whole Moral discussion is a moot point."

Uhm.. you just proved her point.  EVERYTHING a person does is a Moral point.. if it is moot you are in-fact admitting that Moral choice is not... NOT relevant to you~ Which I fear is WHY she was asking the questions int he first place!  ARE YOU Lehm a Moral person?  If not why should she EVER Trust your intentions!?!? And if that is so. Why should she Entrust YOU with what you will do with the answers you get from this quest for magic?!?  WHY should she Help you at all?!?!?

Why do I have the sickening feeling a 'cosmic' "other shoe" is about to fall...?
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein


bulmabriefs144

  • Cage Dancer
  • **
  • Posts: 392
  • Wielder of the Sword of Sorrow
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 47: Discussion
« Reply #43 on: December 02, 2016, 04:29:15 am »
I think he means that while it is morally wrong there is something worse at stake.

In a situation, where it is "is it right to steal to save a life?" valuing a law over human life is not moral. But neither is demanding an exception at any point just because a life "might" be in danger.

In a morally mixed situation similar to this, morality becomes moot, because there is something equally important.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2016, 04:38:52 am by bulmabriefs144 »
"この世界の悪があれば本当に、それは人類の心の内にあります."
(Truly, if there is evil in this world, it lies within the heart of mankind)
—Edward D. Morrison

monimoni

  • Collared Pet
  • *
  • Posts: 86
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 47: Discussion
« Reply #44 on: December 03, 2016, 07:18:58 am »
It would've been nice if he could stop being so vague and start giving some actual answers. This is a guy responsible for the lives of hundreds of people. How can you trust him at all if he just gives vague bullshit answers around your questions? She has the right to know every single detail about his research. There is no guarantee that they will even let her go (at least with all her memory intact) once they are "done with her". 

And this whole morality talk... I'm most confused about Mary. She has to eat human flesh to regenerate herself. It does not have to be from an actual person, most probably. In a universe where they grow limbs in a jar out of nothing, it would probably not be hard to provide human flesh without actually killing anyone.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2016, 07:25:18 am by monimoni »

bulmabriefs144

  • Cage Dancer
  • **
  • Posts: 392
  • Wielder of the Sword of Sorrow
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 47: Discussion
« Reply #45 on: December 04, 2016, 08:32:00 pm »
Maybe limbs aren't enough? What if it's a sort of cellular fusion where she needs real people, because the goal is to become one body from many different people.
"この世界の悪があれば本当に、それは人類の心の内にあります."
(Truly, if there is evil in this world, it lies within the heart of mankind)
—Edward D. Morrison

monimoni

  • Collared Pet
  • *
  • Posts: 86
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 47: Discussion
« Reply #46 on: December 08, 2016, 03:08:45 pm »
Oo, getting interesting.

bulmabriefs144

  • Cage Dancer
  • **
  • Posts: 392
  • Wielder of the Sword of Sorrow
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 47: Discussion
« Reply #47 on: December 09, 2016, 12:13:03 pm »
A thought. Does the Dark Cell undo other magic? As in, could they cast an illusion on Maytag before entering of Bernadette being like "Keep going! I'm here for you" and have her chase after it?
"この世界の悪があれば本当に、それは人類の心の内にあります."
(Truly, if there is evil in this world, it lies within the heart of mankind)
—Edward D. Morrison

monimoni

  • Collared Pet
  • *
  • Posts: 86
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 47: Discussion
« Reply #48 on: December 09, 2016, 04:08:18 pm »
No, Maytag, nooo! I hope you're not thinking what I think youre thinking.

mittfh

  • Rose Petal Acolyte
  • **
  • Posts: 116
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 47: Discussion
« Reply #49 on: December 10, 2016, 03:06:19 am »
So perhaps something like a hood that's locked on, with someone outside The Dark Cell holding the key?

I very much doubt May's thinking of invoking permanent blindness and deafness, e.g. by gouging out eyes and somehow blocking up ear canals.

monimoni

  • Collared Pet
  • *
  • Posts: 86
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 47: Discussion
« Reply #50 on: December 10, 2016, 09:19:07 am »
If you couldn't see and hear anymore, wouldn't Dark Cell just make you hallucinate? It is magic, after all. Or, if it doesn't work that way, maybe you would just get stuck inside, confused? I don't know how being blind/deaf would be any different than having a person without feelings in phase 3.

bulmabriefs144

  • Cage Dancer
  • **
  • Posts: 392
  • Wielder of the Sword of Sorrow
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 47: Discussion
« Reply #51 on: December 10, 2016, 08:17:05 pm »
No, Maytag, nooo! I hope you're not thinking what I think youre thinking.

May won't do it. May is a cool and calculating type. Bern and Corona are zealot types. She did sacrifice limbs, but mainly to save the one she loves. She has already gained most of what she wanted here, and she needs to observe the effects of this. Corona would do anything for the sake of the experiment.

Quote
If you couldn't see and hear anymore, wouldn't Dark Cell just make you hallucinate? It is magic, after all. Or, if it doesn't work that way, maybe you would just get stuck inside, confused? I don't know how being blind/deaf would be any different than having a person without feelings in phase 3.

I'm not sure how well this would work, as I doubt the blind and deaf have any distinct advantage. I read up on it, though. The visual cortex makes replacement imagery based on spatial dimensions. This is more pronounced for people who used to be sighted, as they know what things used to look like. Basically, you are memorizing things like distance and touch so that you know where things are, or at least to guess. Also, we all must watch Ice Castles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjHRC5iO7fE

« Last Edit: December 10, 2016, 08:24:52 pm by bulmabriefs144 »
"この世界の悪があれば本当に、それは人類の心の内にあります."
(Truly, if there is evil in this world, it lies within the heart of mankind)
—Edward D. Morrison

monimoni

  • Collared Pet
  • *
  • Posts: 86
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 47: Discussion
« Reply #52 on: December 13, 2016, 01:31:09 pm »
Couldn't they just send in Corona :P?

bulmabriefs144

  • Cage Dancer
  • **
  • Posts: 392
  • Wielder of the Sword of Sorrow
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 47: Discussion
« Reply #53 on: December 14, 2016, 11:02:07 am »
Couldn't they just send in Corona :P?

Good point. Corona cannot see or hear, and suddenly remembers... Lehm wants her to do the Dark Cell, Lehm wants her to do the Dark Cell, Lehm wants her to do the Dark Cell (remember, conditioning)...
"この世界の悪があれば本当に、それは人類の心の内にあります."
(Truly, if there is evil in this world, it lies within the heart of mankind)
—Edward D. Morrison

mittfh

  • Rose Petal Acolyte
  • **
  • Posts: 116
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 47: Discussion
« Reply #54 on: December 15, 2016, 12:25:16 am »
Given what happened to May wearing the helmet, I'd imagine Corona's experience would be:

She "remembered" that she was in a dangerous place, and that she needed to leave immediately. She also remembered that Lehm was in grave danger and that she needed to help him immediately. Corona somehow felt that she needed to turn around, and go back the way she came.

bulmabriefs144

  • Cage Dancer
  • **
  • Posts: 392
  • Wielder of the Sword of Sorrow
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 47: Discussion
« Reply #55 on: December 15, 2016, 08:03:11 pm »
Nuh uh. Corona, like Bern, is primarily driven by duty.

She would disregard that it was a dangerous place entirely. She would "remember" that Lehm was in danger. But she would also remember that Lehm cares more about the truth than his life and wouldn't want her dropping anything she was doing to save him. Because of two conflicting drives, she would probably enter and instead stand blankly until the Dark Cell spits her out. She might even be able to move to the conditioned area before being paralyzed.
"この世界の悪があれば本当に、それは人類の心の内にあります."
(Truly, if there is evil in this world, it lies within the heart of mankind)
—Edward D. Morrison

SAGG

  • Red Light Worker
  • **
  • Posts: 215
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 47: Discussion
« Reply #56 on: December 16, 2016, 02:06:06 pm »
I wonder by the way Maytag looked there at the end of the latest entry that she suspects Rhodes of doing something to the helmet so she wouldn't succeed...

sunphoenix

  • Cage Dancer
  • **
  • Posts: 348
  • "..you have to give love to get love." -Wendy Pini
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Chapter 47: Discussion
« Reply #57 on: December 20, 2016, 04:08:04 pm »
OH HO...

"It doesn't control the subconscious..."
"Perhaps there is a way to make the conditioning stronger..."

I find this a disturbing train of thought to persue... all sorts of BAD...really, Really BAD things can happen if you start probing into the manipulation of the subconscious... with conditioning!  THAT is a ravenous can of worms that Can/Will bite you~ repeatedly if you dare open it!

Such a thing can fundamentally change WHO you are... bad juju!
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein


bulmabriefs144

  • Cage Dancer
  • **
  • Posts: 392
  • Wielder of the Sword of Sorrow
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 47: Discussion
« Reply #58 on: December 23, 2016, 07:27:07 pm »
Bern has the right idea. I was just thinking about hot cocoa.
"この世界の悪があれば本当に、それは人類の心の内にあります."
(Truly, if there is evil in this world, it lies within the heart of mankind)
—Edward D. Morrison

sunphoenix

  • Cage Dancer
  • **
  • Posts: 348
  • "..you have to give love to get love." -Wendy Pini
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Chapter 47: Discussion
« Reply #59 on: December 24, 2016, 03:08:17 am »
I don't know... I could get behind that free sex part of Sexy Xmas! :)
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein