Author Topic: Chapter 46: Discussion  (Read 31660 times)

Caffinator

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Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
« Reply #90 on: July 25, 2016, 10:11:10 am »
Yeah, I'm calling this guy's bluff. In fact, I would be VERY surprised if he wasn't involved in setting up the situation in the first place. He already said that she was too valuable to let her stay dead. How "convenient" that she's dead by means that are easy to reverse. Do you really think the other team will be punished if they were doing this guy's bidding? They're probably getting some kind of preferential treatment now. Of course Bern is in no emotional state to call his bluff and he knows it.

monimoni

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Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
« Reply #91 on: July 25, 2016, 02:36:10 pm »
Well, it's not like she has a choice..
What I don't really get is why they presented them with the choice to stay in A-rank in the first place. If they wanted them in S-rank, why not simply inform them they will be fighting in S-rank from now on, just like they told Bern she will no longer fight alongside Polly? They don't really have rights to begin with, right? Was it a ploy to keep Polly there forever (dart aimed at Bernadette), or perhaps start a new "auction" like before? 
What would've happened if the guy never got to shoot?

Kiran

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Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
« Reply #92 on: July 26, 2016, 09:32:05 am »
Well, it's not like she has a choice..
What I don't really get is why they presented them with the choice to stay in A-rank in the first place. If they wanted them in S-rank, why not simply inform them they will be fighting in S-rank from now on, just like they told Bern she will no longer fight alongside Polly? They don't really have rights to begin with, right? Was it a ploy to keep Polly there forever (dart aimed at Bernadette), or perhaps start a new "auction" like before? 
What would've happened if the guy never got to shoot?
The answer is simple, the guy who is the administrator of the arena doesn't want to force anyone officialy to do something what they don't want to do, new policy and all that, he wants to keep the good clean guy image of what the Marvallo ruler now wants and supports, he instead uses ugly tactics to make them do it out of their own "free" will where in reality they don't have a choice at all on the matter.

Bern choice here is either to let Polly stay dead as reward for saving her or be forced to do something ugly and/or grow their debt to stay there longer, I really doubt it will be just about moving to S rank seeing how this guy acts.

After all he can easily say now that to Bern and Polly tab there will be added 2000 marks cause the ressurrection of someone is more expensive than just saving someone liver, he can pretty much blackmail Bern into doing anything he wants(like torture someone or become sex slave for free) and add to that more marks to keep them both here for longer. Then after some time he will repeat some underhanded move on them which will again worsen their situation and make their debt grow larger, it can go forever till the prisoners won't give up and will just remain in their cells, or till they won't bring profit anymore. I can't really see an escape from this, maybe May coming here after her part of story will be done and will buy out Polly and Bern with her winning gold instead of doing that radio show...

I feel really sorry for Bern here, May in her worst situation had only one monster to deal with her wits, here Bern and Polly are surrounded by monsters in human form to who they don't mean anything more than being a peace of meat to use and sell to earn money and in reality they can't do anything against them cause there's simply too many of them here. So far we didn't see one positive person who would take their side of their good will or just plain empathy, I had some hope for Warden wanting to remove the leading guy and move the arena into more respectable position but then all the paying supporters would never allow it and it looks the Warden knows it, I wouldn't be surprised if we learned that the Warden herself is an arena prisoner who is still paying off her debt...
I had some hope that maybe the ruler of Marvallo to who Polly served in that task force would somehow help her but clearly he doesn't really give a shit about anyone who is sentenced to the prison.

monimoni

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Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
« Reply #93 on: July 26, 2016, 12:38:21 pm »
Truly terrible situation. I am curious to see under which circumstances the characters will meet again..
Quote
I wouldn't be surprised if we learned that the Warden herself is an arena prisoner who is still paying off her debt
That would be interesting. Possibly an ex-prisoner who survived S-rank. Would explain her attitude.


bulmabriefs144

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Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
« Reply #94 on: July 27, 2016, 11:06:12 am »

The answer is simple, the guy who is the administrator of the arena doesn't want to force anyone officialy to do something what they don't want to do, new policy and all that, he wants to keep the good clean guy image of what the Marvallo ruler now wants and supports, he instead uses ugly tactics to make them do it out of their own "free" will where in reality they don't have a choice at all on the matter.

Bern choice here is either to let Polly stay dead as reward for saving her or be forced to do something ugly and/or grow their debt to stay there longer, I really doubt it will be just about moving to S rank seeing how this guy acts.

After all he can easily say now that to Bern and Polly tab there will be added 2000 marks cause the ressurrection of someone is more expensive than just saving someone liver, he can pretty much blackmail Bern into doing anything he wants(like torture someone or become sex slave for free) and add to that more marks to keep them both here for longer. Then after some time he will repeat some underhanded move on them which will again worsen their situation and make their debt grow larger, it can go forever till the prisoners won't give up and will just remain in their cells, or till they won't bring profit anymore. I can't really see an escape from this, maybe May coming here after her part of story will be done and will buy out Polly and Bern with her winning gold instead of doing that radio show...

I feel really sorry for Bern here, May in her worst situation had only one monster to deal with her wits, here Bern and Polly are surrounded by monsters in human form to who they don't mean anything more than being a peace of meat to use and sell to earn money and in reality they can't do anything against them cause there's simply too many of them here. So far we didn't see one positive person who would take their side of their good will or just plain empathy, I had some hope for Warden wanting to remove the leading guy and move the arena into more respectable position but then all the paying supporters would never allow it and it looks the Warden knows it, I wouldn't be surprised if we learned that the Warden herself is an arena prisoner who is still paying off her debt...
I had some hope that maybe the ruler of Marvallo to who Polly served in that task force would somehow help her but clearly he doesn't really give a shit about anyone who is sentenced to the prison.

Yeah, this is a straight up leonine bargain. Someone should tell him that this sort of thing is against the law, and he should be arrested for it.

Warden has seemed to be on her side, and will probably help if she can. On the other hand, this guy will try anything to get her to stay enslaved. She doesn't need his "help". Polly probably isn't dead anyway, this poison probably just makes her look dead, and she can't really die here anyway.

http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=2063

These are the sponsors. The people that the Warden needs to kill to make this place even half-decent.

http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=2065
http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=2067
http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=2069

And this guy. Did you notice, at no point did he give his name? It's because his name is Harker (he didn't say "I'm not Harker" he's said "Harker's not in charge"). He's the evil rapist, he's just sorta like Nevets in Deltora Quest, it was a personality that got forcibly suppressed with magic or something. That's right. It seems like things have improved, but until the major authorities mentioned above are removed, nothing has changed it's still a rigged game, not a working justice system.

Also, don't get your hopes up too high about Maytag buying her freedom. It's heavily implied that May's in a equally rigged game (there's a reason he can usually keep his winnings, so that probably means there is something that kills most people who pass 3rd stage), and once things don't work out for her, the monster maid will make her into some type of freak.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2016, 11:56:03 am by bulmabriefs144 »
"この世界の悪があれば本当に、それは人類の心の内にあります."
(Truly, if there is evil in this world, it lies within the heart of mankind)
—Edward D. Morrison

monimoni

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Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
« Reply #95 on: July 27, 2016, 07:08:40 pm »
A bit late to be figuring that out, miss Bernadette...
An escape of some sort seems highly likely now

bulmabriefs144

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Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
« Reply #96 on: July 28, 2016, 10:25:34 am »
Any escape she makes will need to involve dispensing with this guy. Which Bern is completely unwilling to do.

I didn't imagine this thing being anywhere near this high.

They should agree to loads and loads of those entertainment deals. Torturing and killing prisoners, sex, whatever.

What we're looking at is pretty much the same difference as D-Rank. What's the difference between high risk because you're at the bottom, and high risk because you're at the top? They seriously just wanted to serve their time and be out of here. Anything they can do to pay this down will help.

At 50 marks a fight, this is 6 years. At 100, 3 years (but she likely will suck at these battles). And those entertainment things are probably 100 a time, once a week subtracting 5200 a year... per person...  that should cut their years down to 5, just for once a week at A-Rank. If she proved good at the other stuff (sex or torture), they might let her go quicker. But first, they would have to kill this guy quietly and burn the body (pretty sure turning to dust is a way to get someone to stay dead).   

...Bern should have chosen prison. A few months, she'd serve her time and be out.
"この世界の悪があれば本当に、それは人類の心の内にあります."
(Truly, if there is evil in this world, it lies within the heart of mankind)
—Edward D. Morrison

sunphoenix

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Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
« Reply #97 on: July 28, 2016, 12:49:32 pm »
Nope.  I'm not thinking this is going to fly with Bernadette.

Pushed. Too. Far.  Things are about to get... medieval.
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein


bulmabriefs144

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Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
« Reply #98 on: July 28, 2016, 02:21:10 pm »
Well, that or she'll say "You can take your deal, and suck my **** with it."

Of course, all three options are bad.
Refusing but not escaping means paying down the remainder of 5000 marks, and there's also no telling that they won't try some equally underhanded trick. This is Warden's advice earlier
Escaping means she will be hunted everywhere, and unable to sleep safely. They may even send arena contestants promised their freedom (pffft) for killing her. Not being able to sleep safely isn't real freedom.
Finally, there is Polly. She could keep her alive (and probably will, because she's kind) and it would greatly increase her chances because Polly is the other part of her team. But doing so would make her stuck here. On the other hand, if she wanted to forget about May and just be with Polly, it's bearable (but there is no telling they won't try this again).

The issue is, it was tough fighting solo  in A-Rank, because her heavy defense needs an offense counterpart. If she goes with option 1, she will have to basically do both parts. The title is unclear (all three options create a scar of sorts), but I think this may be the option she'll pick. May is the one she loves, and she needs to get out and see her.


 
"この世界の悪があれば本当に、それは人類の心の内にあります."
(Truly, if there is evil in this world, it lies within the heart of mankind)
—Edward D. Morrison

mittfh

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Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
« Reply #99 on: July 28, 2016, 02:57:55 pm »
What is this guy implying...

It wouldn't surprise me if he then goes onto say resurrection isn't cheap, followed by a load of bull which translates as "we want to keep you two around as long as possible, as you're very good for business."

OK, so it didn't happen exactly like that, but I was pretty darn close...

They're popular with the crowds so are very good for business, and with 3-6 years to pay off the debt for resurrecting Polly, he's certainly intending to keep them around as long as possible. He's so smarmy I wouldn't put it past him to try a stunt like that again when they near the end of their term if they're still as popular.

Which then raises the question of mechanisms by which they can leave the Colosseum (alive!) before their time is up (assuming Brion's planning to reunite Bern and May sometime within the next decade [our time]). Following the end of this chapter, Bern's story's likely to be in a holding pattern pending an external agent interfering.

Which then leaves time for May to get as far as she can with Lehm (and get some form of financial reward) and Crest to find Suspira. May's preferred approach would almost certainly be to take the reward for helping Lehm and use it to bail out Bern (and by extension Polly) rather than launching her own Stone Show. Whether Polly would remain in Marvallo is another matter entirely - going into the Colosseum that would have been her intention, but whether her own personal views of her country have changed since witnessing the Colosseum remains to be seen. If, by any chance, Bern and her leave the Colosseum by means other than a bail payment, it might not be safe to hang around in Marvallo...
« Last Edit: July 28, 2016, 03:18:50 pm by mittfh »

bulmabriefs144

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Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
« Reply #100 on: July 28, 2016, 05:31:04 pm »
Well, she can ditch Polly and put all her effort into leaving as quickly as possible. As I see it, this might be the most effective way to ensure she doesn't get manipulated anymore (it would be pretty callous, but nobody would blame her) is to just do it all herself with the original 5000.

1. Ditch Polly. Pay off 5000 marks (remaining)
2. Raise Polly. Work for 6 years.
3. Stage a jail break now.

Or

4. Raise Polly. Stage a jail break.

4 is her best option, as it has the most success chance. But this is unlikely as it doesn't fit the chapter title.
"この世界の悪があれば本当に、それは人類の心の内にあります."
(Truly, if there is evil in this world, it lies within the heart of mankind)
—Edward D. Morrison

mittfh

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Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
« Reply #101 on: July 29, 2016, 12:33:02 am »
Given his comment at the end of Page 31 ("You didn't actually believe we'd let one of our star A-ranked fighters stay dead, did you? She's worth far too much! We simply must bring her back!"), Option (1) can likely be discounted - they'll resurrect her and put it on the team's tab regardless of what May thinks. Given the Colosseum is a jail filled with fighters, I'd find it exceedingly unlikely they haven't considered the possibility of prisoners attempting to escape, so both (3) and (4) look unlikely without outside assistance.

However, we're currently on Page 33, and chapters are always exactly 30 or 60 pages long, we've got a lot of story left before returning to May vs Lehm and Crest vs Suspira, so they're not going to enter a "holding pattern" any time soon.

bulmabriefs144

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Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
« Reply #102 on: July 29, 2016, 06:08:26 am »
Actually, Bern does have a "choice". However, the house always wins.

I expect if she did choose option 1, they would sneak in a couple of S-Ranks into the "A-Rank" challenge, or perhaps tell her that option one has consequences. Those consequences would likely be taking on the full debt and possibly being forced to do S-Rank anyway.

I think the one advantage Bern has remaining, is that the arena doesn't really know how her swords work. Just that they are defensive somehow. This works in her favor if she does want to escape.

"この世界の悪があれば本当に、それは人類の心の内にあります."
(Truly, if there is evil in this world, it lies within the heart of mankind)
—Edward D. Morrison

monimoni

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Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
« Reply #103 on: July 29, 2016, 09:09:25 am »
Quote
Well, she can ditch Polly and put all her effort into leaving as quickly as possible. As I see it, this might be the most effective way to ensure she doesn't get manipulated anymore (it would be pretty callous, but nobody would blame her) is to just do it all herself with the original 5000.

1. Ditch Polly. Pay off 5000 marks (remaining)

If she was May maybe she would've done this, or coldly negotiate her way out. I don't really see this happening, it's completely out of her character. At least I hope she won't do it.
That said, having Polly around was the worst idea ever.

bulmabriefs144

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Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
« Reply #104 on: July 29, 2016, 11:15:17 am »
Quote
Well, she can ditch Polly and put all her effort into leaving as quickly as possible. As I see it, this might be the most effective way to ensure she doesn't get manipulated anymore (it would be pretty callous, but nobody would blame her) is to just do it all herself with the original 5000.

1. Ditch Polly. Pay off 5000 marks (remaining)

If she was May maybe she would've done this, or coldly negotiate her way out. I don't really see this happening, it's completely out of her character. At least I hope she won't do it.
That said, having Polly around was the worst idea ever.

Yeah, it's uhhh at the absolute limit of her personality, basically only if Polly came back for a few seconds and told her "don't do it, I'm not worth it." It'd basically be like telling a devout Jew or something to work on Sabbath.

That said, it's in character with the advice given by the Warden earlier. And the cost is simply too high. She's basically paying for a house to keep her friend around. I can see her doing that for May, but Polly? Dunno.
"この世界の悪があれば本当に、それは人類の心の内にあります."
(Truly, if there is evil in this world, it lies within the heart of mankind)
—Edward D. Morrison

MaronaPossessed

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Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
« Reply #105 on: July 29, 2016, 02:43:39 pm »
Dammit the suspense is killing me here T_T

SAGG

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Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
« Reply #106 on: July 29, 2016, 03:04:16 pm »
And now, here's the warden to really rub it in Bern's face. Is everyone here trying to poke Bern to flip out...?

bulmabriefs144

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Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
« Reply #107 on: July 29, 2016, 03:12:52 pm »
Actually, Warden is helping. She's been helping (see the incident where Bern got her sword). She just believes in tough love.

She's here to give a counter-offer to emotionally fragile Bern who is eager to leap at ANY deal no matter how insane the cost.

"この世界の悪があれば本当に、それは人類の心の内にあります."
(Truly, if there is evil in this world, it lies within the heart of mankind)
—Edward D. Morrison

monimoni

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Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
« Reply #108 on: July 29, 2016, 03:45:25 pm »
Yup. I could see some new deal coming up. I refuse to believe that Bern would actually ditch Polly. I'm wondering if she actually has that choice anyway, since they "simply must bring her back, she's worth far too much"; question is, who's paying. 

Caffinator

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Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
« Reply #109 on: July 31, 2016, 07:07:09 am »
Yup. I could see some new deal coming up. I refuse to believe that Bern would actually ditch Polly. I'm wondering if she actually has that choice anyway, since they "simply must bring her back, she's worth far too much"; question is, who's paying.

Agreed. Bern has a very heavily weighed down conscience. She already feels that the whole situation is her own fault and that Polly has repeatedly stepped in to help when she didn't have to. As such, she feels like she owes Polly probably more than she really does. Unless the warden offers a preferable option, she'll accept the cost - her conscience will make her feel that she's "letting" Polly die if she doesn't.

sunphoenix

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Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
« Reply #110 on: July 31, 2016, 08:36:38 am »
The 'REAL' question.. is why does the Warden give a damn about how abused or taken advantage of the gentle spirited Bern is being treated by the Arena controllers?

What's SHE getting out of helping Bern?  I've never really understood that.  Why would she care if Bern was not ready for fighting in the Ranks above "D"?  What's it to HER if Bern gets wacked in her first fight?  That's part of the "spectacle" that the Audiences come to see anyways {sick bastards everyone of them}!

I'm still thinking there may be some blood-relation between the Warden and Bern that she does not know.  Maybe the Warden is an older sister or an aunt or her mother even?  We've never heard {afaIk}..anything about Bernadette's mother!
« Last Edit: July 31, 2016, 08:43:29 am by sunphoenix »
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein


bulmabriefs144

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Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
« Reply #111 on: July 31, 2016, 03:26:02 pm »
The 'REAL' question.. is why does the Warden give a damn about how abused or taken advantage of the gentle spirited Bern is being treated by the Arena controllers?

What's SHE getting out of helping Bern?  I've never really understood that.  Why would she care if Bern was not ready for fighting in the Ranks above "D"?  What's it to HER if Bern gets wacked in her first fight?  That's part of the "spectacle" that the Audiences come to see anyways {sick bastards everyone of them}!

I'm still thinking there may be some blood-relation between the Warden and Bern that she does not know.  Maybe the Warden is an older sister or an aunt or her mother even?  We've never heard {afaIk}..anything about Bernadette's mother!

I believe she does. Look back at both of her deals. They involve some serious stuff, but at the end of it...
  • Bern learns to fight on her own
  • Bern goes from D-Rank (no battles) to A-Rank, paying down a significant portion of her debt
  • Bern gets a pair of awesome magical swords, when before she was at a major disadvantage
  • Bern gets bed fun-times and in exchange pays off her friend's debt

All of this for a lot less effort than would be the case if Harker (in the absence of a name, that's it) set the agenda for battles. She would still be struggling through D-Rank, and likely not get fed by now. Oh wait, I thought the question was "does she really give a damn?"

As to the WHY part, I have a theory. I don't think it's actually said, but I think those running the arena are effectively running a prison, not somewhere that someone is allowed to escape. Warden probably was the best fighter there, the top S-Rank or even Super S-Rank. She got to the point where she would have paid the marks off, but then there was something where friends she made were forced into S-Rank. She made some kinda deal where she could (a) watch them die from being outclassed, or (b) take their marks and work for the Arena forever. So she freed alot of people, but officially hates the arena now, because she is stuck there due to her sacrifice. She figures that Bern has a shot of screwing up the Arena once and for all, so she's backing her. 

Warden knows Bern is tough, from their spar with each other. She knows Bern can do stuff, and she knows she isn't like the others, tempted by promises of hurting other people. This makes her a bit of a wild card because she is not interested in battles for their own sake, she just wants to leave. So yea, I think she actually feels the Arena is messed up, and she is backing someone that she thinks has potential to do something about it.

As for... family resemblance, well, let's take a look at them.

...Noses don't look the same. Bern has what looks like a Greek Nose, Warden has what is called a Turn-Up. Noses usually are a good way to determine genetics. Neither do ears. 


« Last Edit: July 31, 2016, 03:43:07 pm by bulmabriefs144 »
"この世界の悪があれば本当に、それは人類の心の内にあります."
(Truly, if there is evil in this world, it lies within the heart of mankind)
—Edward D. Morrison

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Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
« Reply #112 on: August 01, 2016, 12:06:18 pm »
Well, the assistance from the Warden has certainly taken a more direct step now. It's also peculiar that the guards do not seems to be doing much compared to their rather good earlier reaction time. I do wonder if it's based on that the Warden has the higher real authority or just fear.

MaronaPossessed

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Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
« Reply #113 on: August 01, 2016, 01:55:00 pm »
Yes! I love you Warden <33333

monimoni

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Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
« Reply #114 on: August 01, 2016, 02:45:30 pm »
Awesome! So all is clear now.

bulmabriefs144

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Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
« Reply #115 on: August 01, 2016, 08:58:10 pm »
I think this asshole is about to get ousted. And Bern might well get a new deal. Given Warden's mentality, it definitely won't be easy (she doesn't do handouts), but it's unlikely to be six years of grueling torture.

Also, awesomest page ever. It was so satisfying, even if things later turn for the worse.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2016, 09:06:04 pm by bulmabriefs144 »
"この世界の悪があれば本当に、それは人類の心の内にあります."
(Truly, if there is evil in this world, it lies within the heart of mankind)
—Edward D. Morrison

SAGG

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Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
« Reply #116 on: August 02, 2016, 07:04:31 am »
Well, now, THIS is a surprise. It appears the Warden is fair after all. Can't wait to see how it goes....

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Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
« Reply #117 on: August 02, 2016, 03:56:25 pm »
I love the warden now!

Wulf

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Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
« Reply #118 on: August 03, 2016, 04:14:00 pm »
The administrator is probably the actual official person in charge, considering the guards did appears to consider the consequences for a second or two. Rather weak compared to the de facto authority, though.

Puyon

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Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
« Reply #119 on: August 03, 2016, 04:39:16 pm »
haha mate's frickin' dead, rest in pieces buddy