Author Topic: Chapter 46: Discussion  (Read 32916 times)

bulmabriefs144

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Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
« Reply #120 on: August 03, 2016, 08:23:59 pm »
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consent_of_the_governed

Legitimacy is upheld by one of two things:

1. Physical skill (or magical power)
2. Cunning

Cunning gets cheap and dirty tricks done. And it does make a good ruler if it is combined with actual benevolence, becoming wisdom. Physical skill allows one to hold power in a martial situation (the fear effect). But either of these depends on consent of the governed. If the person is brutal but they still don't care for them, that is loss of consent.

We may not like tyrants, but they are people who can hold their power because people fear them. Pretty much the sentiment straight from Machiavelli's The Prince, which I gather doesn't exist in this universe. Plus, they know she is honest and decent so they also to some extent respect her, unlike this worthless snake.
Kinda like Aslan in Narnia, the White Witch kinda was good at tricking people, but c'mon Aslan was a freaking lion. Kinda a goodass (versus badass). Warden is tough as nails, but also pretty decent. And everyone knows it. Didn't even need to raise her voice. 
« Last Edit: August 03, 2016, 08:36:15 pm by bulmabriefs144 »
"この世界の悪があれば本当に、それは人類の心の内にあります."
(Truly, if there is evil in this world, it lies within the heart of mankind)
—Edward D. Morrison

MaronaPossessed

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Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
« Reply #121 on: August 04, 2016, 09:00:47 am »
Ooo this guy got burned <333

SAGG

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Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
« Reply #122 on: August 05, 2016, 01:49:09 pm »
Perfect Punishment: Get this jerk into the arena to fight for marks. What rank depends on say, a drawing of sticks, or numbers on a piece of paper, whatever.... :)

Kiran

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Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
« Reply #123 on: August 06, 2016, 10:42:27 am »
So how many of us would love to be under Warden's boot too?

If Warden was indeed fair to all here as she presents herself, she should make the guy pay the marks needed for Polly resurrection which he intentionally caused which was a crime in breaking this place rules since she is looking to be truly neutral to all and rules apply to all evenly.

SAGG

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Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
« Reply #124 on: August 06, 2016, 03:00:03 pm »
So how many of us would love to be under Warden's boot too?

If Warden was indeed fair to all here as she presents herself, she should make the guy pay the marks needed for Polly resurrection which he intentionally caused which was a crime in breaking this place rules since she is looking to be truly neutral to all and rules apply to all evenly.
And get him replaced....

IronSoul

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Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
« Reply #125 on: August 06, 2016, 06:07:06 pm »
Warden's always been fair and sometimes more than fair--she's just been fair in terms of the legitimate rules and consequences of the Colosseum. When Bernadette was ranked as a D for not fighting, that was her own fault. When she let Polly do the work, or the D Rank teammates, that was also Bern's fault. When Bern was set up for a slaughter match, she tried to at least give Bern a ghost of a chance to push through. Realistically, the entire mess Bern's been in--up until now--has been her own mistakes.

However, the administrator got greedy and tried to force Bern into indenturing herself further into the system, because of no fault of her own, and quite the opposite.

That's why Warden interjected now on Bern's behalf, and why she's always been fair.

bulmabriefs144

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Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
« Reply #126 on: August 07, 2016, 02:07:03 pm »
So how many of us would love to be under Warden's boot too?

If Warden was indeed fair to all here as she presents herself, she should make the guy pay the marks needed for Polly resurrection which he intentionally caused which was a crime in breaking this place rules since she is looking to be truly neutral to all and rules apply to all evenly.

Agree with everything. The guy just used force to rig the system.

I also agree with the first part. :D Also, when I first heard the song "Royals" by Lorde, and she said "you can call me Queen Bee" that's actually the vibe I got, that the song was not just about anti-materialism but also some BDSM subtext.

And IronSoul, this is completely the point. The difference between a person bringing trouble on themselves, and someone being exploited. Warden is all about the Arena actually being run the right way.
"この世界の悪があれば本当に、それは人類の心の内にあります."
(Truly, if there is evil in this world, it lies within the heart of mankind)
—Edward D. Morrison

TheCollector

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Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
« Reply #127 on: August 07, 2016, 09:37:34 pm »
Oh yeah, going by her comment in the last panel The Warden is so gonna have Polly resurrected and have him pay the marks. Oh I would so so love if the chapter ending with the new administrator reciting the same speech he did to Bern & Polly when they first arrived.

Here's hoping Bern doesn't do something stupid like refuse to let the Warden do it and say she'll pay the marks her self because of nobel bullshit. It won't happen I'm sure, but Bern has done stupid things in the past that has me worry.

bulmabriefs144

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Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
« Reply #128 on: August 08, 2016, 09:09:48 am »
Oh yeah, going by her comment in the last panel The Warden is so gonna have Polly resurrected and have him pay the marks. Oh I would so so love if the chapter ending with the new administrator reciting the same speech he did to Bern & Polly when they first arrived.

Here's hoping Bern doesn't do something stupid like refuse to let the Warden do it and say she'll pay the marks her self because of nobel bullshit. It won't happen I'm sure, but Bern has done stupid things in the past that has me worry.

Well, it wouldn't be exactly the same. This admin has a different "penchant". I would like that, if they showed Polly and Bern walking out, and passing a new entrant who heard the speech. Given by Warden. "The Arena was bad for awhile. The administrator before the last tended to rape people. The last administrator would pull stuff like poisoning people and putting them into debt for resurrection. And the sponsors would often pay off marks by removing limbs, torture, or group sex. But I took care of them. I crushed the last administrator's spine, and cleaned house with the rest of the sponsors. It took a lot of murder though (cue equally horrified expressions)."

I think it's kinda interesting the names used. This guy is an Administrator. Warden is not only a name but a title. When I think of Administrators, I think of two models: tech geeks that largely stay out of the way, and power freaks that manage webforums and have a reputation for banning people for straight-up censorship reasons under the excuse of "trolling" (someone said something that they have they right to say but is politically opposite of them, or similar). A Warden on the other hand, is typically a groundskeeper. They manage the land, technically, but their work involves care rather than authority, and is much more hands-off. 
"この世界の悪があれば本当に、それは人類の心の内にあります."
(Truly, if there is evil in this world, it lies within the heart of mankind)
—Edward D. Morrison

sunphoenix

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Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
« Reply #129 on: August 08, 2016, 09:51:09 am »
Oh no.  I think the Warden has a cruel steak she's about to show in living color...
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein


MaronaPossessed

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Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
« Reply #130 on: August 08, 2016, 10:59:55 am »
Um...Warden? I'm getting some mixed signals here...

Wulf

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Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
« Reply #131 on: August 08, 2016, 04:04:42 pm »
This is when the Warden pulls out a credit card with some kind of reward system and the commercial jingle starts playing.

bulmabriefs144

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Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
« Reply #132 on: August 08, 2016, 04:30:46 pm »
Quote
Oh no.  I think the Warden has a cruel steak she's about to show in living color...

I am thinking what she means by "I'll pay for it" is "you won't be around to pay for it."

She'll either lock him away at D-Rank or prison. If he's lucky. If not, well...
"この世界の悪があれば本当に、それは人類の心の内にあります."
(Truly, if there is evil in this world, it lies within the heart of mankind)
—Edward D. Morrison

sunphoenix

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Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
« Reply #133 on: August 09, 2016, 06:54:27 am »
She'll either lock him away at D-Rank or prison. If he's lucky. If not, well...

...there's always room in the magical flesh-pits.  You didn't think they replace all the severed limbs in the arena with the time consuming regrown ones when perfectly transplantable ones are available from condemned prisoners?
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein


bulmabriefs144

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Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
« Reply #134 on: August 09, 2016, 09:07:34 am »
Pfffft, that reminded me of this.

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/92253492337328571/

And this totally sounds like something the Arena would do.
"この世界の悪があれば本当に、それは人類の心の内にあります."
(Truly, if there is evil in this world, it lies within the heart of mankind)
—Edward D. Morrison

Puyon

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Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
« Reply #135 on: August 10, 2016, 12:48:52 pm »
i actually didn't expect him to die haha bye bye admin, nobody's gonna miss you but i think Bern might have some objection to this

sunphoenix

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Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
« Reply #136 on: August 10, 2016, 02:33:24 pm »
OH Snap!

Meh, he was a dirtbag... good riddance!  I think Bern is just shocked the Warden just unilaterally ..judged, sentenced and executed this jerk... talk about Swift justice!
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein


SAGG

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Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
« Reply #137 on: August 10, 2016, 02:56:06 pm »
Well, I did not expect THAT. Well played, Brion! ;)

bulmabriefs144

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Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
« Reply #138 on: August 10, 2016, 05:14:51 pm »
I dunno if you'll use this or not (it's a common trope in fiction because it seems unbelievable, and because it hinders storytelling), Brion, but just as a heads up, choking someone to death is incredibly difficult. If the windpipe isn't completely closed or if pressure is released, even if they fall unconscious, consciousness resumes after about 10 seconds. So this deal you always see where it's choke then dead, nope.   

http://www.pottstown.org/DocumentCenter/View/211

Although snapping his neck would be perfectly legit. We're going to assume that happened.
"この世界の悪があれば本当に、それは人類の心の内にあります."
(Truly, if there is evil in this world, it lies within the heart of mankind)
—Edward D. Morrison

monimoni

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Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
« Reply #139 on: August 11, 2016, 05:07:32 am »
Uh okay. He was a sleazy scumbag, but that was a bit excessive maybe? Would've been cool to see him fight in D-rank for all those marks. Or is she making him pay for Polly's life with.. his life? 
Quote
choking someone to death is incredibly difficult.
Except when you have a magical chain thing that can catch a flying metal ball at full-speed. Also to me it looks like she was crushing his neck for quite a while before he died.

bulmabriefs144

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Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
« Reply #140 on: August 11, 2016, 12:50:35 pm »
Well, as I say, crushing the windpipe =/= manually choking to death. Completely different story. One has to be done by someone creepy enough to keep choking someone after KO, the other stops airflow and that's it.

On the topic of death and medicine, let's talk instead about resurrection. Why do you think poison-based death is one of the easiest to come back from? My guess is that resurrection doesn't actually heal, it just restarts things, making it similar to an adrenaline. The body begins pumping blood again, and the poison gets flushed from the heart (which it stopped before when it entered), to the liver, and then out the body. But I'd like a separate opinion on how this works.   
"この世界の悪があれば本当に、それは人類の心の内にあります."
(Truly, if there is evil in this world, it lies within the heart of mankind)
—Edward D. Morrison

TheCollector

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Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
« Reply #141 on: August 11, 2016, 09:43:11 pm »
Yeah!

MaronaPossessed

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Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
« Reply #142 on: August 12, 2016, 06:15:28 am »
I want a Warden plushie now.

sunphoenix

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Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
« Reply #143 on: August 12, 2016, 12:38:16 pm »
I want a Warden plushie now.

"...You'll take a spiked heel.. And LIKE IT!"  ;)
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein


TheCollector

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Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
« Reply #144 on: August 12, 2016, 10:58:17 pm »
I want a Warden plushie now.
I need a Warden plushie now.

weirdguy

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Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
« Reply #145 on: August 13, 2016, 05:44:33 am »
The story's narrative direction almost got derailed with the preceding overly dramatic events seemingly written just to make Bernadette suffer for personal growth in implausible situations, but it makes a bit of a recovery with these last few pages even though it's still riding the edge there as it maintains its grip on the consistency of the law of the arena. Frankly the expectation that Bernadette should somehow learn street smarts within the span of all these events is a bit much, because there isn't much breathing room in the pacing for her to attain character development in a satisfying way. Between all the major events, nothing has really happened to give her enough opportunity to absorb any useful information that wouldn't also end up pushing her too far in the other direction (or giving conflicting advice) and having it turn out worse than before. The two characters have been able to develop their relationship, but that's about it here, besides getting that chekhov's offhand sword in the process. The longform story format where scenes were slower paced had more of an impact than trying to push the story along without any apparent reason as to why it's necessary.

SAGG

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Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
« Reply #146 on: August 14, 2016, 11:49:31 pm »
"No warden, I don't think the coliseum is an evil place. I KNOW it's an evil place." 

sunphoenix

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Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
« Reply #147 on: August 15, 2016, 05:00:30 am »
Well we can now tell the Warden is at least a "believer"... not just a cynical burn-out who just turned out to be the baddest of the 'bad-assess' and had nothing better to do with her life... 'so why not run a prison of darn near sociopathicaly violent miscreants with magic and a lust for bloodshed'?

She...at least on the surface claims to have effectively made a philosophically profound choice to see to it Justice of a sorts is meted out to these criminals... though I'm still reticent to call what their getting here as "Justice".
« Last Edit: August 15, 2016, 11:08:05 am by sunphoenix »
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein


bulmabriefs144

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Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
« Reply #148 on: August 15, 2016, 07:44:09 am »
This very much reminds me of the Underworld in Once Upon A Time.

It was supposed to be a place where people dealt with unresolved issues. But Hades was a punk and basically broke the way the place worked. It took someone who was decent and understood the purpose of the place to redeem it.

Likewise, this should be a place where violent people deal with their violence, and are either redeemed into society or dealt with (those who can't control the urge to kill should get punished, while those who fight fair and show mercy can pay off their marks). Instead, people like Bern who have learned their lesson and just want to leave, get rigged to keep fighting, while people like (most of those guys) are given perks or incentives to fight dirty.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2016, 07:56:58 am by bulmabriefs144 »
"この世界の悪があれば本当に、それは人類の心の内にあります."
(Truly, if there is evil in this world, it lies within the heart of mankind)
—Edward D. Morrison

monimoni

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Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
« Reply #149 on: August 16, 2016, 06:28:23 am »
So she killed Harker. I'm a big fan.
The idea seems pretty legit, but one has to wonder if this system has any positive effects in the long-term, for the society. I mean, the purpose should be to re-educate the criminals, not use them for entertainment, and then to churn them out more hardened, experienced, and violent than ever. So of course it profits off of human bloodlust.

Anyways, I really like the art in the second panel :)
« Last Edit: August 16, 2016, 06:30:14 am by monimoni »