Author Topic: Chapter 45: discussion  (Read 34562 times)

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Re: Chapter 45: discussion
« Reply #150 on: March 19, 2016, 09:55:21 am »
I thought this was more about male vs female rejection rather than stereotypes because she just assumed she had him in the bag and was offended when he rejected her while glyph will probably not have the luxury of that assumption.

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Re: Chapter 45: discussion
« Reply #151 on: March 20, 2016, 08:12:21 pm »
We'll have to agree to disagree on that as well, because I'm not sure if any of the ones you've bolded actually apply to that situation, legally speaking.  Sexual harassment is generally a workplace term, exhibitionism should only apply to public nudity and not in a behind closed doors situation (the "love restaraunt" they are in has curtains for that purpose), and Moby barely touched Crest and more or less stopped when asked.  Of course I'm not a lawyer so I may be misinterpreting one or more of those.

In my opinion if she had begun to force herself on Crest after the "no no no" moment it would definitely have crossed into the realm of sexual assault.  But in any case, she was certainly pushy and rude, and skirting the line of sexual assault.  Certainly not a way people should behave, no doubt!

It's actually not. It's just sexual harassment tends to happen more there because two people are working together in close proximity. But it can happen as often in a bar. We talk about sexual harassment alot at the workplace because people tend to hand around and overstep boundaries, and because it can be policed there. But sexual harassment can happen on the street, in church, in a train, or at tea.

Exhibition in sexual harassment refers to just this sort of situation actually. We talked about public nudity here earlier. Public nudity is just that, public nudity. On the other hand exhibitionism is stripping naked because you want something. Yes, she is pushy and rude. That's basically the sum of the term. Physical assault is being pushy and rude in a physical way, beating people up or otherwise (there's a list of what that is, too). No arguing here, at some point, Crest was right, and she crossed a line. We could quibble about when that point was, but if it's good enough for Crest, I'll buy assault and even "rapey."

http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/assault-battery-aggravated-assault-33775.html

Quote
Assault is sometimes defined as any intentional act that causes another person to fear that she is about to suffer physical harm. This definition recognizes that placing another person in fear of imminent bodily harm is itself an act deserving of punishment, even if the victim of the assault is not physically harmed. This definition also allows police officers to intervene and make an arrest without waiting for the assaulter to actually strike the victim.

Yes, you read that right. Not the act. The causing fear of the act alone is the crime.

Was Crest raped? I'd have a pretty hard case of it. But if you're feeling sexual assaulted, you're usually right. Especially since what she did was already very sketchy.

I have a feeling Glyph is nowhere near going to try anything like this. But this is also about Regina's fears and expectations.
"この世界の悪があれば本当に、それは人類の心の内にあります."
(Truly, if there is evil in this world, it lies within the heart of mankind)
—Edward D. Morrison

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Re: Chapter 45: discussion
« Reply #152 on: March 20, 2016, 09:44:48 pm »
No offense Bulma.  But according to some quick google research there's some inaccuracies in the things you're saying.  Mainly with sexual harassment:

http://www.eeoc.gov/eeoc/publications/fs-sex.cfm

"Sexual harassment is a form of sex discrimination that violates Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Title VII applies to employers with 15 or more employees, including state and local governments. It also applies to employment agencies and to labor organizations, as well as to the federal government.

Unwelcome sexual advances, requests for sexual favors, and other verbal or physical conduct of a sexual nature constitute sexual harassment when this conduct explicitly or implicitly affects an individual's employment, unreasonably interferes with an individual's work performance, or creates an intimidating, hostile, or offensive work environment."

So sexual harassment does indeed seem to be a workplace term only.

In relation to sexual assault, you could be right about exhibitionism, I wasn't able to find much about what specific circumstances qualify.  I personally feel like that more applies to people you don't know coming up to you and suddenly exposing themselves.  It's a little different with Moby because she could reasonably say she believed she was on a date, and Crest willingly came with her to an establishment that is known to be a place where people have sex.  I don't believe this would hold up in court, but I don't know for sure.

You seemed to miss something important from the definition of assault that you posted: "Assault is sometimes defined as any intentional act that causes another person to fear that she is about to suffer physical harm."  It's not just about causing fear, it's about causing fear of *physical harm,* specifically.  This definition doesn't apply to Crest's situation at all.  By "fear of physical harm" it is more referring to things like holding someone at gunpoint, or threatening someone with a weapon.  It's worded that way specifically to include these things.  But if you took it to court, you'd still have to provide evidence that there was a reason to fear physical harm.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2016, 10:01:12 pm by Brion Foulke »

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Re: Chapter 45: discussion
« Reply #153 on: March 21, 2016, 06:30:34 am »
Okay sorry, I at one point must've used the word sexual harassment interchangeably with sexual harassment. Sexual harassment usually is used in lawsuits, because it's nebulous.

I meant sexual assault. Assault of any sort is defined as the above, to give the person reasonable fear that the action will take place. Crest is being sexually assaulted.

Does this mean that Moby should be immediately locked up? Well... no. Part of this is determining the person's reaction. Crest didn't want that sort of rapey behavior, but if she kinda tones it down, there's a chance Crest can shrug it off. Assault exists only as long as the fear of the event persists. If she lets it go, it's like he was assaulted but not anymore. As in, if Crest grows to like her, he doesn't need to press charges.

The fact that it is a date doesn't matter (this is why date rape is still rape). In this matter, even being married doesn't matter too much. Typically, most dates don't go this way this soon, and if we look at the "date" in question, it was starting to go south at the point where she started removing her shirt. As in, the implication behind exhibitionism is that you go up to them either just because you like showing off your stuff to random strangers or because you want something. I've looked back at the comic, she talked about how Crest is attractive and while he was still going "Huh?" she starts ripping off clothing. Mood is wrong here. If they had a nice time, and were kissing or stuff, this would be the right time to start removing clothing. Right here, we are all still going "Huh?" because there is no logical jump from casual dating with lukewarm reception to stripping off clothing. If they came to the date nude, if they were already kissing, if Crest asked her to do this, if she asked to do this, even if Crest said he was having a nice time and seemed to want it, the mood would be better than this. This came as a complete non sequitur to audience and Crest alike. He didn't ask for it, didn't want it, didn't even understand why she did it. At this stage of the game, she could have done this, if they were having fun, and both of them were involved such as "hey this restaurant has naked fun time, wanna do this?" The same thing as him suddenly removing her shirt. With no context (even checking for ticks) it comes across as weird and sorta creepy.

The above definition was for physical assault. The definition for sexual assault is just to replace the latter part. If you have reasonable suspicion that you are being molested, this is enough.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2016, 06:33:13 am by bulmabriefs144 »
"この世界の悪があれば本当に、それは人類の心の内にあります."
(Truly, if there is evil in this world, it lies within the heart of mankind)
—Edward D. Morrison

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Re: Chapter 45: discussion
« Reply #154 on: March 21, 2016, 09:04:38 am »
Well according to womenshealth.gov, it does specifically say that "exhibitionism" is "when someone exposes himself or herself in public," and since they weren't technically in public I would say Moby's situation wouldn't qualify.

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Re: Chapter 45: discussion
« Reply #155 on: March 21, 2016, 10:06:51 pm »
I liked this chapter.

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Re: Chapter 45: discussion
« Reply #156 on: March 22, 2016, 05:17:00 am »
Well according to womenshealth.gov, it does specifically say that "exhibitionism" is "when someone exposes himself or herself in public," and since they weren't technically in public I would say Moby's situation wouldn't qualify.

Uhhhh, in a restaurant? I'm sure even though the blind are drawn most people have seen Moby make this play, and they're talking loudly.
"この世界の悪があれば本当に、それは人類の心の内にあります."
(Truly, if there is evil in this world, it lies within the heart of mankind)
—Edward D. Morrison

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Re: Chapter 45: discussion
« Reply #157 on: March 22, 2016, 09:25:58 am »
Uhhhh, in a restaurant? I'm sure even though the blind are drawn most people have seen Moby make this play, and they're talking loudly.

Maybe it's not super obvious, but this is the same sort of restaurant as the ones from Book 0 Chapter 26 and Book 1 Chapter 5.  It's kind of like a "sex restaurant," it's a place where people go to have sex.  That's why the curtains are there.  In Book 0 chapter 26 you can see an example of this happening.  Sorry if the comic doesn't make that totally clear.

I liked this chapter.

Thanks!

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Re: Chapter 45: discussion
« Reply #158 on: March 22, 2016, 06:39:07 pm »
A sex restaurant?!? We need more or these.

Always hated nihilism. It tends not to be used by serious thinkers but by angsty teens looking for a copout so they can do whatever they want and not take responsibility. "Not only is there no God or afterlife but nothing matters. So it doesn't matter if I light that police officer on fire." Well, most of them don't get to that last line of reasoning but instead sink into a sort of depressive uselessness where they lay about all day musing about their ideal despite the fact that it flies in the face of evidence. If nothing matters, why are you being kicked out for being a uselessperson who hurts others? If nothing matters, why is it necessary to work to eat? If nothing matters, why then does it matter that people like Crest say no to uour advances? Because these things do matter, and you're making excuses.
About the other stuff, there are people skeptical about religion and that's cool by itself. But here it's used as another way to avoid responsibility. F*** the police because I'm going to die anyway. Only that doesn't add up, because if there is nothing after death, you have more to fear not less, because you are actually hastening the point where you don't exist. To say nothing of the fact that there have been some documented cases of reincarnation (look them up on google) so even if there is no afterlife place, something happens after death. I think I like the FF7 lifestream theory.
Between her assault-like behavior and her complete apathy about other people and this wrinkle, I'm feeling the Rhett Butler thing for Miss Moby here. Don't gove a damn.

To clarify, I do not believe in a set calling. I believe the point of life and having so many choices is because we have a "duty" to find our personal happiness. Someone like Moby has given up without trying.

Hoping Crest can find someone who has a good core to her (Moby in terms of this, is totally empty), is sweet and kind, and cares for him. That still seems to be suspiria, so I don't know why he's hanging around someone who only wants him for sex. Hoping we switch back to Regina (pffft I first typed Serena, been watching too much pokemon XY)
« Last Edit: March 23, 2016, 05:49:31 am by bulmabriefs144 »
"この世界の悪があれば本当に、それは人類の心の内にあります."
(Truly, if there is evil in this world, it lies within the heart of mankind)
—Edward D. Morrison

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Re: Chapter 45: discussion
« Reply #159 on: March 24, 2016, 05:31:36 am »
Ok, yeah. Life without meaning is pretty damn depressing.

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Re: Chapter 45: discussion
« Reply #160 on: March 25, 2016, 07:01:55 am »
Sorry I've been away..

That was a terribly sweet and giving expression of friendship by Crest~ the SAME thing I would have done for the EXACT same reason!  Crest CARES about those around him, I'm sold.. I think Crest is now my favorite character in this comic!

And despite her rebuttal Moby's expression in panel 3 tells me Crest struck gold... he touched Moby's heart with that simple hug of 'true heartfelt-affection'!

Crest has a HERO'S Heart.

...And Moby has an awesome rack!
« Last Edit: March 26, 2016, 05:56:32 am by sunphoenix »
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein


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Re: Chapter 45: discussion
« Reply #161 on: March 26, 2016, 10:18:17 am »
Of course he does. Crest is a woman.  ;D

I still think my favorite characters are the mains, but this is a nice change of scenery.

I have no idea at this point whether he actually did touch her heart, or she is still trying to work on him, but we'll suspend judgement for now.

Meh, it's okay I guess.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2016, 10:25:27 am by bulmabriefs144 »
"この世界の悪があれば本当に、それは人類の心の内にあります."
(Truly, if there is evil in this world, it lies within the heart of mankind)
—Edward D. Morrison

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Re: Chapter 45: discussion
« Reply #162 on: March 28, 2016, 05:27:54 am »
"Are you ready?"

"Yes, let's do it!"

{No. Shame.}

...

"Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky...?"

"I don't know Brain... was it really a good idea to put sand in the KY jelly?"

{Don't. Judge.}
« Last Edit: March 28, 2016, 05:31:37 am by sunphoenix »
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein


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Re: Chapter 45: discussion
« Reply #163 on: March 28, 2016, 05:47:26 am »
Yay! Fun times.  ;D
"この世界の悪があれば本当に、それは人類の心の内にあります."
(Truly, if there is evil in this world, it lies within the heart of mankind)
—Edward D. Morrison

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Re: Chapter 45: discussion
« Reply #164 on: March 28, 2016, 05:00:00 pm »
Huh.

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Re: Chapter 45: discussion
« Reply #165 on: March 28, 2016, 07:01:57 pm »
To ship or not to ship? That is the question.

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Re: Chapter 45: discussion
« Reply #166 on: March 29, 2016, 05:24:17 am »
Page 41, and thus streaking was invented.

Well, at least they're having fun.

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Re: Chapter 45: discussion
« Reply #167 on: March 30, 2016, 05:11:09 pm »
This is what I meant. Nude just because, not to try to initiate anything. Consent was asked, and it actually is cool with her if he says no. I'm cool with this one.  :-*

This cannot possibly be an April Fool's strip.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2016, 06:43:11 pm by bulmabriefs144 »
"この世界の悪があれば本当に、それは人類の心の内にあります."
(Truly, if there is evil in this world, it lies within the heart of mankind)
—Edward D. Morrison

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Re: Chapter 45: discussion
« Reply #168 on: April 02, 2016, 07:34:47 am »
The current page 43 - what makes me think it was published on Thursday? :)

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Re: Chapter 45: discussion
« Reply #169 on: April 05, 2016, 05:25:29 am »
Not a really good reason, girl. You're not Maytag, you're you. In Glyph's place, most decent guys would go "no" because there's no solid, stable relationship there.

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Re: Chapter 45: discussion
« Reply #170 on: April 05, 2016, 12:30:56 pm »
Not rape, but not a good reason.

Sex is not about being bold but enjoying the person you're spending time with. That said I'm rooting for the single lady to get some action.
"この世界の悪があれば本当に、それは人類の心の内にあります."
(Truly, if there is evil in this world, it lies within the heart of mankind)
—Edward D. Morrison

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Re: Chapter 45: discussion
« Reply #171 on: April 06, 2016, 04:33:11 pm »
"So shines a good deed in a weary world." - Willy Wonka

Way to go Glyph!
« Last Edit: April 06, 2016, 04:34:45 pm by sunphoenix »
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein


bulmabriefs144

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Re: Chapter 45: discussion
« Reply #172 on: April 07, 2016, 04:13:55 am »
D'awwwww!  :-*

All of which leads back to an unfortunate point. Remember Bern's "reward"? Having a deal where you get off for someone else's amusement promises to be extremely awkward. I have a sinking feeling this is next.  :o
"この世界の悪があれば本当に、それは人類の心の内にあります."
(Truly, if there is evil in this world, it lies within the heart of mankind)
—Edward D. Morrison

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Re: Chapter 45: discussion
« Reply #173 on: April 14, 2016, 04:55:24 pm »
Too true.. Crests eyes are not painted on.. {he's no dummy}.. things are NOT adding up... so as apparently Supiria's ONLY friend.. he owes it to that friendship to get to the bottom of what's REALLY going on!
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein


bulmabriefs144

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Re: Chapter 45: discussion
« Reply #174 on: April 15, 2016, 04:58:32 am »
God they're dumb. If it was a trick, the very first premise falls apart when you consider that the very people she accuses of being dead are alive. This implies that she knows something is up. They could have been raised. But this seems more like someone who knew there was something weird about her parents.

It seems so obvious, you wonder if everyone in the room with Qtalda didn't encounter a massive Jedi mind trick. "Those are her parents... you will not think about this..." Which brings up a good point. What does mind control look like to those experiencing it? Would it be like Maytag's latest room where you see stuff completely different from other people? Or would you be aware you are being controlled but hostage to you own body (sort of Ella Enchanted).

http://www.bustle.com/articles/113750-3-problems-people-from-toxic-families-often-struggle-with

Suspiria's reaction to Qtalda admitting that was similar to someone who realizes the have been gaslighted (#3).
« Last Edit: April 15, 2016, 01:22:05 pm by bulmabriefs144 »
"この世界の悪があれば本当に、それは人類の心の内にあります."
(Truly, if there is evil in this world, it lies within the heart of mankind)
—Edward D. Morrison

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Re: Chapter 45: discussion
« Reply #175 on: April 15, 2016, 07:16:24 pm »
Yeah, I like Crests reply to 'Mr, I've drunk the Reverend Jim cool-Aid', Quote "...". 

Yeah I smell more bullshit the more that guy opens his mouth... it categorically is NOT evident that Suspiria is 'Mentally Unstable'~ whatever the hell THAT is supposed to mean; and it is even less obvious that 'she was controlling the conclave'!  What evidence do you have to support that other than the conclave..ulp.. how convenient their all gone..!?!  So its Qtalda's word that Suspiria was controlling her... OF FUCKING Course she would say that; as SHE is being accused of conspiracy to commit murder!
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein


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Re: Chapter 45: discussion
« Reply #176 on: April 15, 2016, 08:20:58 pm »
Oh I'm sorry. Isn't that what Crest just SAID?! Doesn't that person who heard that have EARS?!  ???

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Re: Chapter 45: discussion
« Reply #177 on: April 18, 2016, 05:19:56 am »
Yeah this guy is kinda...

Where is it obvious that she's controlling anything? Because it seems like the one with psychic control powers was the one who got you to believe an obvious lie. Suspiria seems like a straight up battle mage.
"この世界の悪があれば本当に、それは人類の心の内にあります."
(Truly, if there is evil in this world, it lies within the heart of mankind)
—Edward D. Morrison

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Re: Chapter 45: discussion
« Reply #178 on: April 18, 2016, 07:51:05 am »
Yeah... and EVERYONE ...save maybe Crest, keeps conveniently forgetting... Susperia DID NOT KILL the Conclave!  She had a defensive spell that when she accused Qtalda of killing her parents SHE admitted the entire Conclave...except their poor clueless leader was in on it and Qtalda cast the spell to kill her in response!  Suspiria did not threaten to kill ANYONE!  THEY..or more to the point Qtalda did that herself!  Suspiria never cast a single offensive spell on ANYONE... in fact her defensive spell was not even a complete save as she was STILL dying also from the spell that Qtalda cast!

This is ALL BULLSHIT!  Qtalda is playing a 'save my ass... cause I just got played', game... and I don't think Crest is buying ANY OF IT!  But he's playing along cause Qtalda is FAR more dangerous now than she was before..with no council looking over her shoulder... even though apparently most of them were in her pocket anyways!

Suspiria may be the only sorceress powerful enough to stop Qtalda's schemeing murderous plans for power!
« Last Edit: April 18, 2016, 07:54:06 am by sunphoenix »
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein


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Re: Chapter 45: discussion
« Reply #179 on: April 18, 2016, 08:08:57 pm »
Interesting quote there: "Qtalda's not THAT evil." So, the dude's acknowledging that she HAS evil in her to SOME extent, just not as much as Crest thinks? Yeah, THAT would comfort my doubts...