Author Topic: Chapter 44: Discussion  (Read 12583 times)

monimoni

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Re: Chapter 44: Discussion
« Reply #90 on: December 06, 2015, 05:52:35 am »
I guess the person has to be conscious to pass phase 3. Physically forcing someone through phases 1& 2 would probably cause them to pass out, or maybe even die, because of the shock, and sending somebody in already passed out (ie drugged) would probably defeat the purpose. Anyways these discussions kind of kill the story, imo.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2015, 05:55:33 am by monimoni »

Keneto

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Re: Chapter 44: Discussion
« Reply #91 on: December 06, 2015, 08:11:59 pm »
I guess the person has to be conscious to pass phase 3. Physically forcing someone through phases 1& 2 would probably cause them to pass out, or maybe even die, because of the shock, and sending somebody in already passed out (ie drugged) would probably defeat the purpose. Anyways these discussions kind of kill the story, imo.

I imagine you never wondered why they didn't have legolas tie the ring to an arrow and shoot it into the volcano

Stargoat

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Re: Chapter 44: Discussion
« Reply #92 on: December 06, 2015, 08:18:54 pm »
I guess the person has to be conscious to pass phase 3. Physically forcing someone through phases 1& 2 would probably cause them to pass out, or maybe even die, because of the shock, and sending somebody in already passed out (ie drugged) would probably defeat the purpose. Anyways these discussions kind of kill the story, imo.

I imagine you never wondered why they didn't have legolas tie the ring to an arrow and shoot it into the volcano

Why Monkey King didn't carry the monk to the West. Half an hour, tops.

sunphoenix

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Re: Chapter 44: Discussion
« Reply #93 on: December 08, 2015, 03:07:46 am »
I guess the person has to be conscious to pass phase 3. Physically forcing someone through phases 1& 2 would probably cause them to pass out, or maybe even die, because of the shock, and sending somebody in already passed out (ie drugged) would probably defeat the purpose. Anyways these discussions kind of kill the story, imo.

I imagine you never wondered why they didn't have legolas tie the ring to an arrow and shoot it into the volcano

Why Monkey King didn't carry the monk to the West. Half an hour, tops.

Why didn't Gandalf just snag up Frodo with him and hop a ride on a Giant eagle to Mount Doom and punt the little pest into the Volcano... ?

How it should have ended...

Elrond Remembering - "I was there when the Strength of Men failed... !"

~~~

{In Mount Doom at the forge of Sauron}

Elrond - "The Ring Isildor!  Throw it into the volcano for all our sakes!"

Isildor - "No. I claim The Ring of Power as my own!"

Elrond - {Shove!} "opps!"
... ... ...

~~~

Elrond Remembering - "...its a tragedy that in his greatest moment of triumph.. Isildor ..er 'slipped' and fell into the volcano... alas... perhaps the Dexterity of Men is at fault?"

[THE END]

:)
« Last Edit: December 08, 2015, 03:12:58 am by sunphoenix »
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein


SAGG

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Re: Chapter 44: Discussion
« Reply #94 on: December 09, 2015, 03:10:56 pm »
Okay, I have no idea myself, but what do any of you think is the lie Maytag's talking about?

bulmabriefs144

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Re: Chapter 44: Discussion
« Reply #95 on: December 09, 2015, 05:33:20 pm »
There's a few possible options. Some of which are other lies not relevant to the one May is thinking of.

(1) There's one right off the bat. Supposedly Thin Man only uses magic for learning the truth. Only it's obvious that in order to find this portal, he needed to do some warp magic. Among other things.
(2) That these people just "happen" to become monsters. It is obvious that simple experimentation would not produce the wide array of side effects Bloody Mary has. Extreme regeneration might indeed create the vampiric state of Bloody Mary, but not the fear demon. Likewise, Suspiria has no reason to create horny extensions from her hair for an effect that just awakens her powers.
(3) That Thin Man might actually know what is in the deepest layers of the the Dark Cell.
(4) Even more disturbing, the reason the paintbrush might not work is because the Thin Man designed it. Along with the Dark Cell. As some kind of test to farm people for some kind of experiment.
(5) Most likely, he's lying about even giving the reward. Candidates in all odds get memory wiped after they outlast their usefulness. Unless she can erase-proof her memory.
(6) "...And that's all the cheating we've done." Sure it is.

Hold up. How does the thin man know that 10 steps is the limit of the third phase? Seems like #3 is the case.
 
« Last Edit: December 09, 2015, 08:23:00 pm by bulmabriefs144 »
"この世界の悪があれば本当に、それは人類の心の内にあります."
(Truly, if there is evil in this world, it lies within the heart of mankind)
—Edward D. Morrison

9_6

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Re: Chapter 44: Discussion
« Reply #96 on: December 10, 2015, 02:12:43 am »
I still have no idea why exactly she thinks she can trust those guys but okay, I guess we're in full "how to solve this mystery" mode now. I sure hope the plot twist here isn't "oh noes, the thin man guy wasn't trustworthy after all" and there's cthullhu waiting to twist the canidates nipples at the end od that dark cell thing or something because maytag is supposed to be a smart character who sees things like that coming.

sunphoenix

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Re: Chapter 44: Discussion
« Reply #97 on: December 10, 2015, 05:20:52 am »
Well... I'm not sure, what May believes the thin man is lying about... I think it might be closer to the truth that the thin man does more with magic than just seek information.

Think about Bloody Mary's crazy regeneration ability.. clearly a great adaptation for phase two... until you realize its not actual harm your being subjected to.  Melter might be immune to the paralyzing fear of phase one.. but perhaps phase two was too much for him?  Perhaps the inspiring Suspiria to advance to BEYOND the 'most powerful level of magic achievable on record' was meant to test the theory of someone having the will to accomplish such a feat might be enough to ignore the reality warping ability of phase three?  Not sure how the thin man was hoping to coral someone that powerful to his cause though, assuming Thin man was behind her power awakening at at~ which I'm still not sure he was at this point.  Though clearly Melter had something to do with it... perhaps Melter is playing his own game?

Then we come to the why of getting into the Dark Cell at all? Thin man says its for knowledge to understand the greatest mystery of the world.  I'm not entirely sold on that kind of altruism...
If one finds the source of magic.. and can learn to manipulate it even control it.. could not someone warp reality to their whims? Remake the world in their image?  That would be  A LOT of temptation to do so even IF that was not their expressed reason for seeking the source of magic in the first place!

"Some things... its best left unknown."

The REAL question is if magic is artificial.. constructed by very smart individuals why did they do it and how did they ever expect for it to not eventually be abused?
« Last Edit: December 10, 2015, 01:02:21 pm by sunphoenix »
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein


bulmabriefs144

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Re: Chapter 44: Discussion
« Reply #98 on: December 10, 2015, 12:06:27 pm »
This is a very good point (and probably also true), but I think I have a good idea of what Maytag knows is the lie.

I'm not gonna tell you guys (I'm gonna ask Brion by PM so as not to give it away), but I'll give you a hint. If I'm right, the lie has to do with the first test Maytag was subjected to when she met the Thin Man.
"この世界の悪があれば本当に、それは人類の心の内にあります."
(Truly, if there is evil in this world, it lies within the heart of mankind)
—Edward D. Morrison

Abstract Vagabond

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Re: Chapter 44: Discussion
« Reply #99 on: December 11, 2015, 12:03:20 pm »
I think this last page may be a fair hint as to what that lie is. How much control does Marce have over the Thin Man?

bulmabriefs144

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Re: Chapter 44: Discussion
« Reply #100 on: December 11, 2015, 01:02:15 pm »
I think the last part is hint on what Marce is. She's not just a crazy girl. She's probably not human at all, in fact.

In fact, I would venture to say that she and the Dark Cell have a great deal in common. A great deal.

Though this doesn't count as a lie, since he never spoke about this.

« Last Edit: December 11, 2015, 01:07:07 pm by bulmabriefs144 »
"この世界の悪があれば本当に、それは人類の心の内にあります."
(Truly, if there is evil in this world, it lies within the heart of mankind)
—Edward D. Morrison

sunphoenix

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Re: Chapter 44: Discussion
« Reply #101 on: December 11, 2015, 01:16:21 pm »
WELL NOW!~  That puts a lot of things into perspective!

I had always wondered why I got an incongruous feeling about how Lehm behaved with Maytag and his followers... and the results of the 'Experiments' ostensibly attributed to "His" efforts... the experiments were NOT his deeds at all!

Lehm always seemed... too sane and level-headed to do something that would erratically cause someone else so much pain and suffering.. not only to themselves but those around them.  I had assumed he was just a total amoral sociopath who could be charming pensive yes even polite in your face...while he was planning to flay the skin from your bones later preferably with you still alive and screaming so he could closely record ever nuance of his subject's reaction!  That seemed the only way such a level of polite duplicity could be maintained with how he has spoken and treated Maytag; compared to the horrific results of his many experiments!  It made me VERY Fearful of what he would eventually do to Maytag... cause it seemed it would come suddenly and without warning and be UTTERLY HORRIFIC~ monstrous... the only way it would make sense. 

BUT Now it becomes clear why Lehm seemed so out of character for a 'mad-scientist' kind of personality... it was not him performing the experiments at all!  Now I kinda do believe Lehm may indeed be as altruistic as he seems in his simple desire to understand the great mystery of magic...
« Last Edit: December 11, 2015, 01:18:51 pm by sunphoenix »
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein


bulmabriefs144

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Re: Chapter 44: Discussion
« Reply #102 on: December 12, 2015, 09:24:30 am »
I wonder if Marce is actually behind all this stuff (as in, Qualia, magic, everything), and Lehm is actually working with her for a chance to stop her?

I have a feeling the 3rd phase isn't as bad as all that, and by "done with her", this implies that the 4th phase has a tendency to mindwipe or kill off candidates (which Marce uses to make blank slate monsters).
"この世界の悪があれば本当に、それは人類の心の内にあります."
(Truly, if there is evil in this world, it lies within the heart of mankind)
—Edward D. Morrison

dekutree64

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Re: Chapter 44: Discussion
« Reply #103 on: December 23, 2015, 06:56:59 am »
omg this dog just solved Dark Cell https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6lEotpqaXo
All you gotta do is walk backward :P

Keneto

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Re: Chapter 44: Discussion
« Reply #104 on: December 31, 2015, 04:55:54 pm »
I must say, I loved the curve balls that they at least tried some of the "cheats" as they called it. But they missed one. Ceiling is slanted in the direction of the target. You need only put on a floatation device and fill the room with water. Because of the ceiling, you are 100% guaranteed to reach the end.

Daisuki-chan

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Re: Chapter 44: Discussion
« Reply #105 on: December 31, 2015, 05:42:48 pm »
Well, you might have a bit of a problem once you take off the flotation device (if the third phase even lets you know you have it on) and have to swim downwards in the process of tackling phase three (or possibly phase four). Also, once you get through you are underwater. You would have a communication method for draining the water after finishing phase three, but maybe you'd have drowned by then.

weirdguy

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Re: Chapter 44: Discussion
« Reply #106 on: January 11, 2016, 11:01:46 pm »
if they can measure the volume of the room (perhaps by running some tests of flooding the room first), they could easily determine how to do so down to the exact amount of water, preventing most of the accidents that would be caused by initial error. this is, of course, assuming that the room does not automatically drain faster than they can fill it or some other anticheat trickery. there is also the issue that the illusion would easily be able to manipulate such a complex setup to kill the user with slight obfuscation.

note that the person going in would also need a hose to allow the air pocket caused by this arrangement to escape, since otherwise the water would stop rising the moment the entrance becomes completely submerged
« Last Edit: January 11, 2016, 11:04:07 pm by weirdguy »