Author Topic: Chapter 31: Discussion  (Read 28054 times)

Kiran

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Re: Chapter 31: Discussion
« Reply #60 on: February 02, 2012, 01:40:15 am »
Today's update basically summarise all of this into this clear trust argument, which for sure many readers, like me too were affected by.

I still can't understand at all why May thought it would be a good idea to tell her life story on this contest and reveal the truth behind her character/personalities like that, instead of some private talk just between friends, where also maybe Bern too would be included to soften the blow(I assume Bern knows about this in most part).

She is not an inexperienced kid, she should expect that people, especially closest to her, would react with negative attitude for such declaration.

It is indeed like it is, if once you tell all you are wearing many masks and try to fit your personality to people you meet so they would like you, and then show that your true self is some kind of emotionless entity, then she should not be surprised about this.
All of us wear different masks daily and act a bit differently if we deal with people from work, friends or family, for us and I assume other Flipside characters that's natural ability to do which we all learned through socialisation process, while May seems to be a person who simply couldn't achieve this naturally, just had to use such method as she used to get similia results as normal people which she brought to extreme.

The time mends all so I think in current situation that's the only solution to this, nothing which May will do will convince Crest, since he can easily turn every of her honest action into pretending made specially for him so he would start liking her again.

This kind of events will be harder for May to resolve than escaping from Bloody mary hideout.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2012, 01:44:33 am by Kiran »

Brion Foulke

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Re: Chapter 31: Discussion
« Reply #61 on: February 03, 2012, 01:56:12 am »
Other than that I'm a little confused by how to interpret the current page. She stops crying, but then seems to start yelling an apology in what looks like anger?

Yeah, I made a mistake when inking this page, she's supposed to still be crying in those bottom two panels.  (Afterall she's still crying on the next page.)  I fixed it now, so hopefully it makes more sense.

Azure Priest

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Re: Chapter 31: Discussion
« Reply #62 on: February 03, 2012, 05:49:57 am »
Now would be a good time for Crest to say "give me time, May. It's not going to be easy to adjust to this" or "you once told me to be patient because someone has been through a lot. Now I'm going to have to ask you to be patient because this is a lot to take in."

Kiran

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Re: Chapter 31: Discussion
« Reply #63 on: February 06, 2012, 02:33:53 am »
So we shift to Bern now.

In such situation I expect that Bern will first meet her father new family, maybe she will have a little sister and/or brother now, than meeting her father first...

I can't wait to see how this will develop, and I wodner if she will try to contact May so she would be with her on this event through the ring.

ducky_worshiper

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Re: Chapter 31: Discussion
« Reply #64 on: February 06, 2012, 12:47:13 pm »
I'm curious as to how Bern will explain away Polly.  The point of the rings and portals was for May to be with Bern when she meets her father for the first time.  So either Bern will have to have an explanation for who Polly is; she'll have to hide Polly; or she'll have to not tell May that she's meeting her father for the first time and perhaps bring her along for another meeting.  Any of the solutions could have interesting implications for the plot.

L0g0s

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Re: Chapter 31: Discussion
« Reply #65 on: February 06, 2012, 05:49:48 pm »
Well, my view on Maytags behavior is this, she's always been an emotionally different person.  She learned to emulate emotions.  Sure, she's learned to have some of her own now but, that doesn't make her an expert on people.    Ever see the show The Big Bang Theory?  Think of Sheldon.  Highly intelligent, always observant of how other people interact, and he tries to fit in as best he can.  Does it work?  Hardly.

Brion Foulke

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Re: Chapter 31: Discussion
« Reply #66 on: February 06, 2012, 08:24:15 pm »
The fact that you're comparing Maytag to a character from The Big Bang Theory kind of makes me feel like I've failed as a writer...

Churba

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Re: Chapter 31: Discussion
« Reply #67 on: February 06, 2012, 09:17:19 pm »
The fact that you're comparing Maytag to a character from The Big Bang Theory kind of makes me feel like I've failed as a writer...
I can't blame you.

Flipthecannon

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Re: Chapter 31: Discussion
« Reply #68 on: February 07, 2012, 11:18:21 am »
  I pretty much know I'm not the first to mention this (I'll read through the thread later I swear) but this chapter is obviously one about temptation and trust and for the first time we're seeing Bern being tempted when no spell is involved (enchantments and possessed people in baths do not count).  I think it will be interesting.  She has turned Blackbird away so far but I think we're getting a sense now that maybe her crush on Blackbird was stronger than we originally knew and is a little more than her "what if" girl to Bern.  Perhaps Bern does fall into temptation.  On the other side, May has run into Regina.  It's not as surprising there as May goes through a will she cheat moment almost every chapter.  What could be interesting is if May resists temptation and turns Regina away at the end of the chapter and Bern falls into temptation.

  As far as Crest and Suspiria.  I'm glad that suspiria's more down to earth now.  Her character's really becoming more likeable.  I just hope she doesn't completely lose that over confident edge she had at the beginning.  I'm also glad that Crest has a possible relationship interest beyond May.  THey're getting closer but I don't think Suspiria's quite ready for a committed relationship.

Azure Priest

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Re: Chapter 31: Discussion
« Reply #69 on: February 08, 2012, 06:39:08 am »
... Headache? Recurring, debilitating headache!? Not good. Seems Melter DID leave her a present after all, especially considering Crest's expression in the last frame.

Suspira, sweetie. Headaches of that magnitude do NOT "go away on their own." You need a scan and fast. If the healers can't help you, then you find someone who can.

Flipthecannon

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Re: Chapter 31: Discussion
« Reply #70 on: February 08, 2012, 07:14:10 am »
 yeah I was thinking something similar.   It will be interesting to see how far Melter got in his process.  Another question is the Thin Man the main one who alters the people? OR is he just their leader and Melter the specialist in what they are able to do to the people they kidnap.

Asyndeta

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Re: Chapter 31: Discussion
« Reply #71 on: February 08, 2012, 01:05:14 pm »
While I'm not taking back my opinion that the build-up and revelation of Maytag's 'split personality' were badly written and numbingly paced (even taking into account the presence/absence of the bonus chapter), I will say that I....genuinely loved the conversation between Maytag and Crest.  (See guys, I don't indiscriminately hate everything Brion produces.)  I did not anticipate reading the most emotive kind of scene - the kind where nobody is 'in the right' exactly but you sympathise with both of them anyway - but here we are.

What I'm seeing in Maytag here - rather, what I'm hoping I'm seeing - is someone almost Dexter Morgan-like.   Not a perfect comparison, but by that I mean an extremely high-functioning sociopath.  Someone with enough empathy to know exactly what people like to see but not quite enough to realise that those people will feel betrayed and frustrated when they realise that whatever her 'real' self might have been, it's become suppressed under layers of chameleonic assumed traits.  After all, she's just been giving them what they want, right?  The fourth panel right here hit me like a punch in the gut.  If this is honestly the thesis statement for her entire life then I've found a reservoir of sympathy for this character I thought had completely dried up.

She doesn't understand people thoroughly enough to 'get' that what close friends really want is to know the 'real her', distinct from the show she puts on for everyone else - but variations on that show are all she has to offer.  And she seems not to understand why Crest, Regina et al wouldn't see that as being enough.

If this is what Maytag is, if this is who she is, then I feel comfortable saying you've won back a reader - as in, someone who's reading out of genuine interest rather than morbid curiosity and nostalgic fondness for Book Zero.  I'm just hoping this gets played to the fore.

Also, I'm enjoying Suspiria's 'ill person' hair although her follicular magic does emphasise the fact that if you shaved and washed most of the female cast you wouldn't be able to tell them apart.

(However, since I can't make a completely uncritical post, one small complaint is from this page, sixth panel.  'Why are you pretending to have tears now'?  Nobody talks like this.  'Why are you pretending to cry?' or 'Why are you crying? I know it's an act' - fine, but 'to have tears' sounds like a phrase from someone whose first language isn't English.  Distractingly stilted.  Try reading your dialogue out loud, or better yet, get someone to act it out with you.)

Flipthecannon

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Re: Chapter 31: Discussion
« Reply #72 on: February 08, 2012, 05:34:43 pm »
Love the Dexter reference.  I would agree that Maytag's act is more pronounced than others but it's basically what most of us do in public anyways.  We don't wear our true selves.  We put on a performance.  I've been getting a feeling that Maytag was meant to represent that in people as I was reading through but I think this chapter gives a lot of credence to it.  To call May a sociopath is a bit harsh but not entirely inaccurate.  From what I've seen, it does not appear that May puts on the act with Bern at least to the extent as she does with others and a lot of it is how long has she really known Crest?  She's opened up to Crest before this but while not knowing the complete time line it still seems a bit soon for her to start opening up to Crest.

  As far as the multiple personas...that's not that abnormal either.  We have different phases of our personality that we bring out based on who we are around as well.  Again it's more designed as an exaggeration of that once again as to serve to show this.  It's unfair to say the "act" she puts on when she's a jester is the true self more so then the "act" she plays when she's without that costume as it's probably more accurate to say that both can represent different portions of her personality.  Being of high intelligence she has been able to meld them exactly how she wants them more than many.

  It was actually kind of a Meh moment for me when she revealed it. Not because it was poorly written (I don't think it was) but more because I kind of already was again getting that impression and really I side more with May than Crest in this argument. I get that he thinks it's a violation of trust but you also can't expect someone to reveal their true selves at a pace they aren't comfortable with.  I do understand why Crest was upset and I guess it's a bit unfair to say I really fault him as no one likes to feel that they've been lied to.

IronSoul

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Re: Chapter 31: Discussion
« Reply #73 on: February 09, 2012, 05:23:10 am »
That's a pretty good point. Anyone that's been to a formal dinner party with the family and a drinking party on Saturday night with friends should be able to grasp the extent that a personality can change, while still having the core similarities that make that person them. As for the life story vs humor question, I sorta gave it the benefit of the doubt. Some of the comments are very "maytagish" that were at least in character, and offscreen (during the actual life story comic) remarks might have been funnier. I mean granted that could be considered a weak explanation, but its the same an artist would use if he couldn't draw hands, just use a pose the hides the damn things. I'd rather go with that assumption if Brion is bad with humor than side through a slew of bad jokes and expect the reader to think them funny cause a character said so, now that would be insulting. At least in this scenario there's enough open that there can be benefit to the doubt, at least considering Maytag's background and character.

Brion Foulke

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Re: Chapter 31: Discussion
« Reply #74 on: February 09, 2012, 02:09:08 pm »
What I'm seeing in Maytag here - rather, what I'm hoping I'm seeing - is someone almost Dexter Morgan-like.

Well I am a big fan of Dexter.  Of course, it would feel cheap to copy his character.

Nobody talks like this.  'Why are you pretending to cry?' or 'Why are you crying? I know it's an act' - fine, but 'to have tears' sounds like a phrase from someone whose first language isn't English.  Distractingly stilted.  Try reading your dialogue out loud, or better yet, get someone to act it out with you.)

That doesn't really work, in my experience.  What works better for me is to read over it again and think about it.  But perhaps in some cases I don't take as much time to do that as I should.  I think my dialogue is overall a lot better than it used to be, though.  In any case, I think you're right that it would sound better with the word cry.

I mean granted that could be considered a weak explanation, but its the same an artist would use if he couldn't draw hands, just use a pose the hides the damn things. I'd rather go with that assumption if Brion is bad with humor than side through a slew of bad jokes and expect the reader to think them funny cause a character said so, now that would be insulting. At least in this scenario there's enough open that there can be benefit to the doubt, at least considering Maytag's background and character.

I still think that a "stand up comedy routine" is something that is virtually impossible to write and have it come across as "funny" on the written page.  So it's not that I'm bad with humor, I'm think I'm okay with it, but just in the way that most comic writers are, by having funny reactions and infusing comedy into situations, etc.  But honestly, I think that the path I'm taking by just telling the reader that her act was funny rather than showing it is the only effective path any comics writer could take.

Azure Priest

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Re: Chapter 31: Discussion
« Reply #75 on: February 10, 2012, 05:56:16 am »
I noticed that Moby and the guy with the scouter (His name escapes me at the moment) are re-hashing what we've been discussing in the forums. CLEVER, Brion.

 ;D

Flipthecannon

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Re: Chapter 31: Discussion
« Reply #76 on: February 10, 2012, 07:16:10 am »
I noticed that Moby and the guy with the scouter (His name escapes me at the moment) are re-hashing what we've been discussing in the forums. CLEVER, Brion.

 ;D

His name is Glyph and yeah I noticed that.

Flipthecannon

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Re: Chapter 31: Discussion
« Reply #77 on: February 12, 2012, 10:51:49 am »
Is it bad that I'm slightly unsettled that Glyph is the one expressing my side of the argument?

Ryuu

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Re: Chapter 31: Discussion
« Reply #78 on: February 13, 2012, 05:50:35 pm »
Don't see any reason why you should be unsettled

Flipside desktops, knock yourself out.
now with more pictures!

Flipthecannon

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Re: Chapter 31: Discussion
« Reply #79 on: February 13, 2012, 07:47:48 pm »
Don't see any reason why you should be unsettled

Neither do I which is weird.  I mean I guess he didn't give the best first impression but it wasn't that big of a deal for me and he's been fairly cool since.  Maybe I just think he's supposed to represent the wrong side of the argument.

Azure Priest

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Re: Chapter 31: Discussion
« Reply #80 on: February 15, 2012, 08:48:51 am »
(Sigh) May, there ARE some things that are just "private."

Yes, your "personality is an act" thing is something that people won't understand.

It might be a good idea to ask Glyph to use his scouter on Suspira's head. Headaches that can cripple you like that are NOT normal, and if sorcery was used on her, he can, at least see the trail, if not determine the spell. (He showed this ability when Bern was fighting the two sorcerers in the tower.)

Flipthecannon

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Re: Chapter 31: Discussion
« Reply #81 on: February 15, 2012, 02:03:04 pm »
(Sigh) May, there ARE some things that are just "private."

Yes, your "personality is an act" thing is something that people won't understand.

It might be a good idea to ask Glyph to use his scouter on Suspira's head. Headaches that can cripple you like that are NOT normal, and if sorcery was used on her, he can, at least see the trail, if not determine the spell. (He showed this ability when Bern was fighting the two sorcerers in the tower.)

Actually this is true I was thinking of how The Thin Man doesn't leave any traces but this was Melter so there's a possibility something was left behind.

Kiran

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Re: Chapter 31: Discussion
« Reply #82 on: February 15, 2012, 04:36:04 pm »
Oh we finally get to see the big evil Thin Man himself!
Long hair and kinda big lips?
I wonder if he reminds anyone we saw already in the comic.

Also seems Melter planted some magical tracking device in Inverness head to check somehow on May, or maybe he through it will control Inverness to bring some distraction.

I wonder what he would do if May suddenly would disappear in the portal going to where Bern is, or maybe that situation would give him a possibility to try to capture her.

Flipthecannon

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Re: Chapter 31: Discussion
« Reply #83 on: February 15, 2012, 04:54:29 pm »
 I imagine it will lead to an opportunity to try to capture May.  I don't think it's tracking so much in suspiria. She's been involved in a comedy performance that seems fairly big so it wouldn't have been difficult to find her without aid of Suspiria.

Jongarakun

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Re: Chapter 31: Discussion
« Reply #84 on: February 17, 2012, 05:09:03 am »
Headaches that can cripple you like that are NOT normal

You mean a migraine? =U

Kiran

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Re: Chapter 31: Discussion
« Reply #85 on: February 20, 2012, 05:16:57 am »
Hmm I wonder what will Bern see...

The title of the chapter is Anticlimax so no father/father is dead already scenario too could be plausible.

Flipthecannon

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Re: Chapter 31: Discussion
« Reply #86 on: February 20, 2012, 10:20:50 am »
May's being all logical when Bern probably wants her to be there when she knocks on the door so she can meet them together.

Azure Priest

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Re: Chapter 31: Discussion
« Reply #87 on: February 22, 2012, 07:51:40 am »
Headaches that can cripple you like that are NOT normal

You mean a migraine? =U

Migraines often have triggers like bright lights or loud sounds (sometimes even drinking alcohol.) They also have a well-defined history.

Suspira's headaches have a "cause unknown," manifest at random, are of prolonged duration, and have NO well-defined history.

Is it just me, or does Melter look a bit more effeminate now than during the "Bloddy Mary" and "Tower" arcs?

Flipthecannon

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Re: Chapter 31: Discussion
« Reply #88 on: February 22, 2012, 12:12:14 pm »
Headaches that can cripple you like that are NOT normal

You mean a migraine? =U

Migraines often have triggers like bright lights or loud sounds (sometimes even drinking alcohol.) They also have a well-defined history.

Suspira's headaches have a "cause unknown," manifest at random, are of prolonged duration, and have NO well-defined history.

Is it just me, or does Melter look a bit more effeminate now than during the "Bloddy Mary" and "Tower" arcs?


He does though that may just be that we're getting a better look at his face right now.

Kiran

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Re: Chapter 31: Discussion
« Reply #89 on: February 24, 2012, 04:22:05 am »
Oh god, this so fits the chapter name...

So Bern father became a dirty drinking hobo?

Totally anticlimax.