Author Topic: Chapter 43: Discussion  (Read 35595 times)

bulmabriefs144

  • Cage Dancer
  • **
  • Posts: 395
  • Wielder of the Sword of Sorrow
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« Reply #60 on: March 28, 2015, 06:06:56 am »
I remember there was a law of physics that said that an object (say, a glass of water) was equally broken on the floor and on the edge of the table, that until momentum/gravity/other forces were applied, it would always be between those states.

The swords are antimagic, because they are made from something that is magic in the original sense. If the "magic" here is a type of science, these swords have the power to suspend all of it, by operating on some principal that is beyond science. The other stuff is fake, these swords can somehow dismiss them as such. Since most magic operates under effects that can be produced through science, this effectively protects against everything that the qualia can project; logically, this has a kitchen sink effect against a very wide range of effects.

Let's give an example above. If you sliced this with the sword, the glass, besides whatever wounds the sword produced, there would be no effects of gravity or momentum. It would be on the floor, but it would be whole. It maintains the original cause of how it got from A to B (you knocking it off), but removes all forces applied in the process.
"この世界の悪があれば本当に、それは人類の心の内にあります."
(Truly, if there is evil in this world, it lies within the heart of mankind)
—Edward D. Morrison

Azure Priest

  • Cage Dancer
  • **
  • Posts: 359
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« Reply #61 on: March 28, 2015, 07:23:21 pm »
Well, this is a surprising result! Rather than simply restoring the mass to its original, the negation altered the incoming I-beam's velocity change. So the momentum Bern is experiencing is actually DECREASED by a square of whatever multiplier Mr. I-beam is using. Say he's altering its mass to swing 10 times faster, Bern is actually feeling 100th of the impact she would normally feel by blocking with the swords. The fight suddenly got VERY interesting.

Edit: After some thought I realized what's actually going on. The enchantment does nothing to alter the I-beam's mass or weight at all. It only affects the speed of his swing, and simply "feels lighter" due to the "magic" applying most of the force behind the swing, and then, on impact, absorbs the excess kinetic energy. As a result, while the additional velocity was negated, the "price," ie, consuming a large percentage of the impact's kinetic energy was not. This makes the force of impact considerably light.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2015, 07:46:20 pm by Azure Priest »

TheCollector

  • Slave Groupie
  • *
  • Posts: 25
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« Reply #62 on: March 30, 2015, 12:14:34 am »
So, am I the only one who wonders if the glowing the swords are doing right now isn't just an after effect of the cancellation, but actually a secondary ability where they absorb the power of the last weapon it blocked temporarily. Cause that would be so freaking awesome.

SAGG

  • Red Light Worker
  • **
  • Posts: 217
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« Reply #63 on: March 30, 2015, 01:39:35 am »
So, am I the only one who wonders if the glowing the swords are doing right now isn't just an after effect of the cancellation, but actually a secondary ability where they absorb the power of the last weapon it blocked temporarily. Cause that would be so freaking awesome.

You mean something to the effect that the swords would have the I-Beam's power? Yeah, that WOULD be awesome!  ;D

bulmabriefs144

  • Cage Dancer
  • **
  • Posts: 395
  • Wielder of the Sword of Sorrow
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« Reply #64 on: March 30, 2015, 02:57:46 am »
Huh. That's interesting.

Best I can understand about these swords is that they're magnetic, and they work together by generating a force field by having a mixed positive/negative charge (that is, they are alternating versus all positive or negative on one side, so they create an energy field rather than attraction). This is a visible electromagnetic field rather than the other sword's power.

http://engineering.mit.edu/ask/why-can%E2%80%99t-magnetism-be-used-source-energy

I'm thinking less "power stealing" and more "power draining". He probably can't use the sword again.
"この世界の悪があれば本当に、それは人類の心の内にあります."
(Truly, if there is evil in this world, it lies within the heart of mankind)
—Edward D. Morrison

TheCollector

  • Slave Groupie
  • *
  • Posts: 25
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« Reply #65 on: March 30, 2015, 03:29:27 am »
Oh my god!! Enough trying to dissect the science behind the last attack! This is a world where a woman heals from eating people, another woman is permanently invisible and tiny microscopic machines fill the entire planet creating magic.

So do you really think our worlds physics apply to theirs? lol

sunphoenix

  • Cage Dancer
  • **
  • Posts: 349
  • "..you have to give love to get love." -Wendy Pini
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« Reply #66 on: March 30, 2015, 05:28:53 am »
Huh. That's interesting.

Best I can understand about these swords is that they're magnetic, and they work together by generating a force field by having a mixed positive/negative charge (that is, they are alternating versus all positive or negative on one side, so they create an energy field rather than attraction). This is a visible electromagnetic field rather than the other sword's power.

http://engineering.mit.edu/ask/why-can%E2%80%99t-magnetism-be-used-source-energy

I'm thinking less "power stealing" and more "power draining". He probably can't use the sword again.

Hahaha! Spoken like a True 'Brief's'.. Miss Bulma!  Nice catch of the temperamental and fiery alien hunk, by the way! :)  Bet he's just a kitten in bed! hehe{snicker!}

Oh.. and anyone in mind for that strappingly handsome {from his mamma of course 'wink'} equally hunky son of your's?  Perhaps a certain energetic girl named Pan? {nudge-nudge!}
« Last Edit: March 30, 2015, 05:34:10 am by sunphoenix »
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein


Azure Priest

  • Cage Dancer
  • **
  • Posts: 359
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« Reply #67 on: March 30, 2015, 05:48:44 am »
Oh my god!! Enough trying to dissect the science behind the last attack! This is a world where a woman heals from eating people, another woman is permanently invisible and tiny microscopic machines fill the entire planet creating magic.

So do you really think our worlds physics apply to theirs? lol

A post even more epic than today's comic! Sir I salute you and your wit!

Bern, LET'S GET DANGEROUS!

9_6

  • Guest
Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« Reply #68 on: March 31, 2015, 06:50:50 am »
Oh my god!! Enough trying to dissect the science behind the last attack! This is a world where a woman heals from eating people, another woman is permanently invisible and tiny microscopic machines fill the entire planet creating magic.

So do you really think our worlds physics apply to theirs? lol

Yes.
Without any point of reference, how are we supposed to find anything at all exciting?
Brion didn't establish that there is an enchantment reducing weight without reducing mass on that beam for shits and giggles.
We need rules so we know what's going on.

Just because it's "fantasy" doesn't mean you have a free pass to make things up as you go along.
More to the contrary, you better think the things you build on through or else you'll sabotage yourself for example hero guys entire motivation is his killed family and now you introduce reviving with no further explanation because "lolfantasy" and plot convenience required character X to live.
With death now apparently being nothing but a minor inconvenience, you just sabotaged hero guys motivation and the entire story.

It is not a "whatever comes to mind" deal.
Please don't insult Brions story telling capabilities like that.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2015, 07:02:04 am by 9_6 »

Enkida

  • Collared Pet
  • *
  • Posts: 72
    • View Profile
    • Baldur's Gate Portraits
Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« Reply #69 on: April 01, 2015, 02:32:23 am »
Oh my god!! Enough trying to dissect the science behind the last attack! This is a world where a woman heals from eating people, another woman is permanently invisible and tiny microscopic machines fill the entire planet creating magic.

So do you really think our worlds physics apply to theirs? lol

I actually enjoy these "nerdy" discussions, even though I feel in no way qualified to contribute to them.  Grounding a fantasy world in science always makes more sense to me, if you're going to throw in scientific terms anyway.  There are nanobots in this world already, why not go for the obvious and allow for basic physics, too.

One example of a big annoyance caught and "fixed" in post production by fan discussion of science? Han Solo's parsec comment in Star Wars.  Fans actually managed to get the franchise to retcon that piece of nonsense into something vaguely workable with discussions just like these here right now.  If the author has a plan, great!  If the author doesn't have a plan, sometimes these kinds of debates can spawn great ideas, too.

Another example of a personal annoyance I had, when fantasy authors don't listen to basic logic?  The Avatar movie.  The successful guerilla warfare of the native aliens was turned into an all-American flat out frontal charge when they were united and led by a trained military human officer.  Wat.  I spent so much of my time on that final battle scene slapping my head and muttering to myself about how much life they could have NOT lost if they had just used basic kindergartner tactics and strategy, instead of a head on charge of basically dinosaurs against mecha.  Yes, drama, plot, heroic scenes and sacrifices created more easily this way, blah blah blah, but I couldn't enjoy any of that because I was too caught up in feeling the writers had engaged in lazy storytelling to get to their point. 

Also, as Neil DeGrasse Tyson said somewhere to somebody, "you can't ignore the laws of gravity just because you want to lose weight.". LOL!  It's more fun when logic and science mixes with the fantasy, it allows me to suspend my disbelief more enjoyably :-)
« Last Edit: April 01, 2015, 02:34:17 am by Enkida »
2 kids = no more comics, but you can still find me doing BG portraits now and then

Azure Priest

  • Cage Dancer
  • **
  • Posts: 359
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« Reply #70 on: April 01, 2015, 05:42:04 am »
Actually, the "Avatar" movie's final battle made perfect sense. The greedy corrupt corp execs and their mercs were getting ready to completely genocide the entire native population from orbit, and a frontal attack on the corp hq was their only option. (They had to neutralize the human controlled equipment before the orbital death rays were in position and started firing.) Also, the guerrilla tactics weren't that effective. Sure, a pack of hunters could take out a company of men, or two, but the massive barrage being fielded by scarface, and an automated orbital strike attuned to their unique heat signatures? Not so much. Heck, they couldn't even stop ONE of those super hauler trucks. The best they could do was "blind" it, and that had a heavy price.

Stargoat

  • Hot Streaker
  • **
  • Posts: 444
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« Reply #71 on: April 01, 2015, 06:06:59 am »
lol Brion. That's the funniest thing I've seen all week.

SAGG

  • Red Light Worker
  • **
  • Posts: 217
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« Reply #72 on: April 01, 2015, 01:47:28 pm »
lol Brion. That's the funniest thing I've seen all week.

I think we're being mocked, myself...  ;D

sunphoenix

  • Cage Dancer
  • **
  • Posts: 349
  • "..you have to give love to get love." -Wendy Pini
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« Reply #73 on: April 01, 2015, 06:44:04 pm »
lol Brion. That's the funniest thing I've seen all week.

OH Brion! You are one wrascally-wobster!

You are a SUCH sadistic Tease! :)
{...and I mean that with all due affection if you can't hear the tongue-in-cheek in my written tone} :-*
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein


Enkida

  • Collared Pet
  • *
  • Posts: 72
    • View Profile
    • Baldur's Gate Portraits
Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« Reply #74 on: April 02, 2015, 11:10:47 am »
[ avatar movie discussion ]

I disagree completely but I find the plot, pacing and logic in that waste of a film to be so inferior to just about everything in this Flipside comic that I'll nod agreeably at you and get back on topic. ;)
2 kids = no more comics, but you can still find me doing BG portraits now and then

bulmabriefs144

  • Cage Dancer
  • **
  • Posts: 395
  • Wielder of the Sword of Sorrow
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« Reply #75 on: April 03, 2015, 08:06:09 am »
Welp, she's doing a good job of blocking.

And a very good job of making him look like a chump.  ;D

Uhhh, guys, weren't you supposed to be ummm "killing her"? Far from that, he hasn't given her a scratch.

That said, as long as she stays doing what she's doing, and isn't cocky, I doubt he could give her one. She's a good swordswoman, and she's got a weapon that can stand up to him, the most he could do is hurt her arm or something with powerful blows. But given that she's now blocking one handed, I'm not sure that's an option.

I think this sword operates based on repulsion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repulsive_force

If someone cast a fire spell, normally, all you could do is counter it. Form a barrier, or using an opposite effect. In the opposite effect, this would be using water or ice against fire (real science says you would need to watch for a steam explosion too). In the case of a barrier. Most barriers operate on a constructed field that enough pressure can break. It doesn't look like this is operating that way, however. In fact, it doesn't look like she is being magically drained, or expending any real effort. She's just blocking, and the sword is pushing the blade back (it doesn't look like it, but the entirety of the force is going pfffft). It's not a force shield, so much as the sword is exhibiting targeted repulsion. If someone cast the above flame spell, a force field would last until heat destroyed it. A heat repulsion sword would simply bounce the heat off.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2015, 08:39:31 am by bulmabriefs144 »
"この世界の悪があれば本当に、それは人類の心の内にあります."
(Truly, if there is evil in this world, it lies within the heart of mankind)
—Edward D. Morrison

9_6

  • Guest
Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« Reply #76 on: April 03, 2015, 03:35:17 pm »
What's going on.
What does "KIII" mean? What sound is that?
I guess it's not supposed to be a clang?
From Berns pose I could infer that she puts 0 effort at all into blocking blows that have 0 force behind them, thus no clang but I'm not sure that's intentional because true strikes pose also doesn't convey "I will strike you with all I got" to me and I guess in that situation, that's something he'd want to try and do.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2015, 03:45:42 pm by 9_6 »

Azure Priest

  • Cage Dancer
  • **
  • Posts: 359
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« Reply #77 on: April 04, 2015, 01:03:20 pm »
What's going on.
What does "KIII" mean? What sound is that?
I guess it's not supposed to be a clang?
From Berns pose I could infer that she puts 0 effort at all into blocking blows that have 0 force behind them, thus no clang but I'm not sure that's intentional because true strikes pose also doesn't convey "I will strike you with all I got" to me and I guess in that situation, that's something he'd want to try and do.

It's possible that's the sound of metal scraping on metal. Bern had better do something quick though because the yo-yo girl could come along and tie her up with her wicked floss if she only focuses on blocking Mr. I-beam here.

Daisuki-chan

  • Rose Petal Acolyte
  • **
  • Posts: 106
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« Reply #78 on: April 04, 2015, 05:38:22 pm »
I still have to wonder why people are calling it an I-beam. It clearly has a rather square cross section, while an I-beam has an I-shaped cross section. It's not remotely an I-beam, is it?

9_6

  • Guest
Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« Reply #79 on: April 06, 2015, 04:15:22 am »
So... why didn't berns dad just visit her to tell her how to use those incredibly complicated weapons she doesn't know what they do?

If I was in jail for threatening someone and my dad gave me a custom AK to use in the daily deathmatches to get out of there and I have never fired an AK, only pistols and it's a weird, mutant AK that I'm not even sure what it does if I pull the trigger so I can only apply my pistol knowledge in a vague way that may or may not apply, you'd think he'd tell me how to use the custom safety, how to load the thing properly, what not to do with it etc. because it's his weapon, he knows everything about it.
In fact I'd probably not use the darn thing at all in a situation with exactly 0 room to fuck around.
I'd stick with what I know works, even if the weapon is "better" cause it's worthless and dangerous if I don't know exactly how to use it.

Grant seems pretty chill about his daughter fighting those incredibly dangerous dudes with his weapons that she knows nothing of.
Doesn't even try to shout instructions or anything, just sits there, passive, sweaty, inner monologue-ing.
I could buy it if he tried but got drowned out by the crowd or if he had to remind himself that it's no good to distract her now by calling out to her or something but none of that seems to be happening.
It's kinda hard to buy that he gives a shit you know.

Also did we address why bern can't just be bailed out in a country where money supposedly rules everything?
Polly surely has more than double the 800 gold pieces the healer asked and that super expensive sword and entry fee to the colosseum grant paid was probably more than that too but we've never seen any negotiations to the effect of just getting Bern out of there, only getting in there with Bern and giving Bern that sword.

Would be funny if after all that dramatic fighting buildup fueled by poor decision making, May just shows up and fucks off with Bern because she was the only one to do the sensible thing and sputtered a droplet of the metric ocean of cash she now swims in at the direction of the arena dude.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2015, 04:57:42 am by 9_6 »

Azure Priest

  • Cage Dancer
  • **
  • Posts: 359
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« Reply #80 on: April 06, 2015, 06:31:45 am »
Grant doesn't have access to his daughter or her cell. He BARELY has access to the audience. It was a minor miracle that Bern got her hands on those swords. The "bosses" let it happen only let it happen because they thought she'd be killed anyway.

Little did they know that those swords were BUILT for her, and her fighting style, a style she has mastered.

Bern, now kick some ass before these yahoos get smart and take the swords out of your hands.

9_6

  • Guest
Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« Reply #81 on: April 06, 2015, 07:19:31 am »
Well I guess I forgot about this.
Still, no visitors? No contacting relatives when locking people away for over half a year?

bulmabriefs144

  • Cage Dancer
  • **
  • Posts: 395
  • Wielder of the Sword of Sorrow
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« Reply #82 on: April 07, 2015, 06:17:42 am »
So... why didn't berns dad just visit her to tell her how to use those incredibly complicated weapons she doesn't know what they do?

If I was in jail for threatening someone and my dad gave me a custom AK to use in the daily deathmatches to get out of there and I have never fired an AK, only pistols and it's a weird, mutant AK that I'm not even sure what it does if I pull the trigger so I can only apply my pistol knowledge in a vague way that may or may not apply, you'd think he'd tell me how to use the custom safety, how to load the thing properly, what not to do with it etc. because it's his weapon, he knows everything about it.
In fact I'd probably not use the darn thing at all in a situation with exactly 0 room to fuck around.
I'd stick with what I know works, even if the weapon is "better" cause it's worthless and dangerous if I don't know exactly how to use it.

Grant seems pretty chill about his daughter fighting those incredibly dangerous dudes with his weapons that she knows nothing of.


Uhhhh, this was answered in the comic itself. She already knows how to use this. Because it's part of the sword style she's mastered and learned all her life. Unlike magical items, this seems to work automatically so it's closer to "here's a bazooka, pull the trigger" to someone already trained in lifting heavy stuff. They just hoist the bazooka, aim and pull it. It looks like aside from blocking she's giving virtually no effort on this.

That said, to win she's gotta find an opening. And at least finish him before the others pull more tricks on her. 2 on one, when the two are effect users, not as hard as 2 effect users, and one physical threat.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2015, 06:21:34 am by bulmabriefs144 »
"この世界の悪があれば本当に、それは人類の心の内にあります."
(Truly, if there is evil in this world, it lies within the heart of mankind)
—Edward D. Morrison

Stargoat

  • Hot Streaker
  • **
  • Posts: 444
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« Reply #83 on: April 07, 2015, 07:38:39 am »
I still have to wonder why people are calling it an I-beam. It clearly has a rather square cross section, while an I-beam has an I-shaped cross section. It's not remotely an I-beam, is it?

Because I-Beam is funny.

sunphoenix

  • Cage Dancer
  • **
  • Posts: 349
  • "..you have to give love to get love." -Wendy Pini
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« Reply #84 on: April 07, 2015, 11:29:58 pm »
I still have to wonder why people are calling it an I-beam. It clearly has a rather square cross section, while an I-beam has an I-shaped cross section. It's not remotely an I-beam, is it?

Because I-Beam is funny.

<-- This.. precisely! :)
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein


ducky_worshiper

  • Red Light Worker
  • **
  • Posts: 240
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« Reply #85 on: April 08, 2015, 12:03:24 am »
I have to admit I'm a little disappointed that Bern appears to have to go through basically no character growth so far. She just sort of gets handed magic weapons that will let her win the fight.

I'm reserving total judgement until I see how this plays out, but I think this particular arc has left a lot to be desired so far.

9_6

  • Guest
Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« Reply #86 on: April 08, 2015, 06:42:15 am »
I don't think Berns character growth comes from the fight since the invincible bernadette losing a fight has been done and done already.
It'll probably come from dealing with the wardens deal and how she handles sex. Perhaps she'll get even more prude and bitter and can't even handle being with may anymore.
Perhaps she'll start something with polly and now has to walk a mile in mays shoes. We don't know yet.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2015, 06:43:59 am by 9_6 »

mittfh

  • Rose Petal Acolyte
  • **
  • Posts: 116
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« Reply #87 on: April 09, 2015, 12:22:17 am »
It would probably be Bern's style to wait until he's tried every permutation with his sword, then say something to the effect of "You can't kill me with that thing, and I refuse to kill you. Truce?"

Not that he'd accept, but Warden may see the opportunity to take brute-force weapon users down a peg or two by scheduling fights against Bern - especially if she adds some choreography to her routine rather than standing in one spot (e.g. getting close enough to swipe through the waistband of their clothes while barely penetrating their skin) to make it less of "unstoppable force meets immovable object"...

Azure Priest

  • Cage Dancer
  • **
  • Posts: 359
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« Reply #88 on: April 09, 2015, 05:34:29 am »
And what's his face is clearly SO frustrated and determined to break Bern's guard by brute force that he's clearly going to cripple himself, or lose his grip on his weapon, or both. It's not going to be pretty when that happens.

9_6

  • Guest
Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« Reply #89 on: April 09, 2015, 07:28:55 am »
Bit high on the speedlines there but I can see weight in that attack. Nice improvement.
Nothing else much to say about this page.