Author Topic: Chapter 43: Discussion  (Read 37802 times)

sunphoenix

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Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« Reply #120 on: April 16, 2015, 03:32:52 pm »
Being the intellectually deep and thoughtful poster that I am, I just want to say of page 18: that flat chested long haired supermodel in a gladiatorial bikini is my favourite type of eye candy.  I didn't actually notice Beambro being neutered until I read this thread.  Too busy looking at Bern's runway body there, oops.

*coughs and waves all the debaters back in*

ps. also


You know.. Bern's... not THAT Flat chested...

http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=314

But I've noticed that the artist has been minimizing her bosom even more in this Chapter...
:) I certainly wouldn't kick the pretty redhead out of MY bed... if she were so inclined to join me!
« Last Edit: April 16, 2015, 03:39:59 pm by sunphoenix »
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein


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Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« Reply #121 on: April 17, 2015, 05:47:26 am »
 :-* :o That was awesome, Bern. A flaming BOLA, and a sand net came your way, yet you blocked them both. Looks like Mr. Sandman forgot what he learned earlier, and Ms. Bola wasn't paying attention. Bern, take them down and go rank S!

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Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« Reply #122 on: April 17, 2015, 07:28:59 am »
Why is the old dude not butt naked like everyone else?
If we're doing this, we might as well go all the way and have wrinkly old man nutsack scrape all over the floor.

MaronaPossessed

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Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« Reply #123 on: April 17, 2015, 10:19:13 am »
A winner is her!

Furcas

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Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« Reply #124 on: April 17, 2015, 10:23:50 am »
Well this is silly, the swords are doing all the work for her. All she has to do is block.

You've made the swords too powerful, Brion. At most they should absorb a fraction of the magical energy depending on how well the attack is blocked, which would then increase the sword's attack power, or something, so Bern would have to actually strike her foes.



Furcas

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Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« Reply #125 on: April 17, 2015, 01:37:47 pm »
Why is the old dude not butt naked like everyone else?
If we're doing this, we might as well go all the way and have wrinkly old man nutsack scrape all over the floor.

The point is to attract spectators.


Silverdrake

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Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« Reply #126 on: April 17, 2015, 01:53:00 pm »
Well this is silly, the swords are doing all the work for her. All she has to do is block.

You've made the swords too powerful, Brion. At most they should absorb a fraction of the magical energy depending on how well the attack is blocked, which would then increase the sword's attack power, or something, so Bern would have to actually strike her foes.

I somewhat do agree. I did not expect her to easily defeat those guys - and surely not due to the swords alone. But if we look at this from a greater point of view: those three guys here were among the biggest fish in this tank - but Bernadette is going to fight much more dangerous and capable foes later.
If you want it this way: the foes here are like lower midlevel or even midlevel and we're getting to see just how powerful Bernadette with these swords is. And then, when she's back in the story, she'll *need* this kind of power when she faces really powerful enemies. This fight here is just so she and we can get used to it. The shock will come when some foes resist her newly found superpowers - and when something really is at stake (not just her life that she would give willingly if it has to happen).
Imagine the world or Maytag being at risk at the hands of some really high-level foes.

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Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« Reply #127 on: April 17, 2015, 02:06:57 pm »
I don't know about your "too powerful", "mid-level" or "high-level" assumptions.
This was way too abstract to confer anything. Nonspecific energy attack things somehow got deflected.
We need to know which rules those swords play by. There has to be something they can't do.
Then we can guesstimate their overpoweredness.

Right now, bern could do stuff like gently tapping a wall with those things which hulk smashes  a giant hole into it and all we can do is just accept that as something bern can do now.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2015, 04:26:11 pm by 9_6 »

SAGG

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Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« Reply #128 on: April 17, 2015, 02:55:30 pm »
See, we're (or rather you all) are assuming the newly-empowered Bern will NOT attempt to take on the warden now, and try to get Polly. Why am I thinking she'll do just that...?  ???

And I see nothing wrong in Bern's REALLY powerful weapons. With what she's (and we've) gone through seeing how much of a wussy she's been, this more than makes up for it!  ;D

bulmabriefs144

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Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« Reply #129 on: April 17, 2015, 05:11:55 pm »
Why is the old dude not butt naked like everyone else?
If we're doing this, we might as well go all the way and have wrinkly old man nutsack scrape all over the floor.

Thank you for that completely horrifying image. I will have nightmares forever.

Quote
Well this is silly, the swords are doing all the work for her. All she has to do is block.

I suppose you'd still say that if you were in a cage match with three trained killers. Blocking is rather tough to do when you're outnumbered. I'm an amateur blunt weapon (usually staff) user. I know a few quarterstaff moves from watching people, and some sword skills, so I can technically fight "two sworded" with bamboo. I was at a farm and we were goofing off, and I could beat most of the other people fighting with bamboo in single combat, and block effectively. However, as soon as they came at me from two sides, dividing my concentration was pretty difficult, and I routinely got clobbered. This by the way was against kids less than half my age, meaning when it was just one, I could block and counter without hurting them seriously. From two directions, I lost to kids.

There is actually way more skill involved in blocking than attacking. Most people can win at chess by being hyperaggressive, but winning a game of the same where you simply counter all advances, and then "oh, checkmate" yea that's a bit harder.

Also, I think there is a learning curve to these swords. They do in fact operate on repulsion (yay, I was right!) but initially all they did was halt the force of the attack. What she's doing now is effectively pushing the attacks back with her own strength.

In all likelihood, the limit to the swords is her limit. As in, if someone were to use a continuous energy pulse (think force lightning from Star Wars), and keep solid pressure going, Bern might have trouble pushing back the attack. No, the swords aren't absorbing the energy, they are pushing stuff back.

These swords probably couldn't smash a wall. They are a defensive not offensive sword.  The reason these swords smashed, the reason the spells reflected?

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AttackReflector

The sword smashed because its own magically enhanced force rebounded.

The spells turned back because of the same.

Because of this, her enemies rather than being "high-level" (it wouldn't make a difference) either use nonmagical tricks (the extending staff may have been just a retractable staff with a taser attached) or have real weapon skill. It's like Inuyasha's Backlash Wave, it probably has a stronger effect the more powerful magic the attack, so ironicallly "high-level" attacks are precisely what opponents will avoid using.

Also, btw, these weren't unrecognizable effects. Bolo Girl used a razor wind effect, the old guy used a flame sphere.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2015, 05:22:26 pm by bulmabriefs144 »
"この世界の悪があれば本当に、それは人類の心の内にあります."
(Truly, if there is evil in this world, it lies within the heart of mankind)
—Edward D. Morrison

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Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« Reply #130 on: April 17, 2015, 08:29:13 pm »
I do say, the reverse reflection effect on those swords would need to be rather carefully balanced in any game setting.

Pinkk

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Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« Reply #131 on: April 17, 2015, 11:17:36 pm »
OMG!  LOVE THIS NEW PAGE!  AWESOME!  Love seeing Bern kicking butt for a change!

bulmabriefs144

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Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« Reply #132 on: April 18, 2015, 05:37:20 am »
Effectively, it's a rebound effect.

There are some things a clever caster can do to make her have trouble. And in a standard swordfight, she would still need to use all of her skill. I run D&D campaigns, and you can say that ability is unbalanced, or you can find a way the characters can counter it. Obviously, head-on magic attacks, is not the way.

Stuff like tying her legs down, yeah that seemed to work.

And yea, after alot of failure, depressive scenes, and other crap, it's nice to see Bern win like this.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2015, 05:39:49 am by bulmabriefs144 »
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Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« Reply #133 on: April 18, 2015, 05:51:33 am »
Wow, the sand net went after Ms. Bola, and the Flaming Bola went after Mr. Sand Mage., and they were BOTH too stupefied to react properly.  Yeah, Bern wins. It was so satisfying to see those smug looks disappear. Now comes the aftermath. PLEASE don't do something stupid, Bern. Just accept your A-rank and keep your mouth shut.

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Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« Reply #134 on: April 18, 2015, 10:50:54 am »
That's not a reflection btw, girl gets hit by old guy attack and vice versa.

Silverdrake

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Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« Reply #135 on: April 18, 2015, 12:12:29 pm »
Why is the old dude not butt naked like everyone else?
If we're doing this, we might as well go all the way and have wrinkly old man nutsack scrape all over the floor.

Thank you for that completely horrifying image. I will have nightmares forever.

Quote
Well this is silly, the swords are doing all the work for her. All she has to do is block.

I suppose you'd still say that if you were in a cage match with three trained killers. Blocking is rather tough to do when you're outnumbered. I'm an amateur blunt weapon (usually staff) user. I know a few quarterstaff moves from watching people, and some sword skills, so I can technically fight "two sworded" with bamboo. I was at a farm and we were goofing off, and I could beat most of the other people fighting with bamboo in single combat, and block effectively. However, as soon as they came at me from two sides, dividing my concentration was pretty difficult, and I routinely got clobbered. This by the way was against kids less than half my age, meaning when it was just one, I could block and counter without hurting them seriously. From two directions, I lost to kids.

There is actually way more skill involved in blocking than attacking. Most people can win at chess by being hyperaggressive, but winning a game of the same where you simply counter all advances, and then "oh, checkmate" yea that's a bit harder.

Also, I think there is a learning curve to these swords. They do in fact operate on repulsion (yay, I was right!) but initially all they did was halt the force of the attack. What she's doing now is effectively pushing the attacks back with her own strength.

In all likelihood, the limit to the swords is her limit. As in, if someone were to use a continuous energy pulse (think force lightning from Star Wars), and keep solid pressure going, Bern might have trouble pushing back the attack. No, the swords aren't absorbing the energy, they are pushing stuff back.

These swords probably couldn't smash a wall. They are a defensive not offensive sword.  The reason these swords smashed, the reason the spells reflected?

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AttackReflector

The sword smashed because its own magically enhanced force rebounded.

The spells turned back because of the same.

Because of this, her enemies rather than being "high-level" (it wouldn't make a difference) either use nonmagical tricks (the extending staff may have been just a retractable staff with a taser attached) or have real weapon skill. It's like Inuyasha's Backlash Wave, it probably has a stronger effect the more powerful magic the attack, so ironicallly "high-level" attacks are precisely what opponents will avoid using.

Also, btw, these weren't unrecognizable effects. Bolo Girl used a razor wind effect, the old guy used a flame sphere.

No one cares about "mid level" or "high level", it's just to compare skill and power. Bernadette now easily defeats foes presented as strong. She'll meet much stronger foes lateron. Note this fight was basically S-categorized. What does that tell us about foes that Bernadette will have to actually fight lateron?

And in regards to level: Brian started the thing in this comic with his "class 3 casters" and whatnot to grade magical power. We can talk in regards to abstract concepts.

ducky_worshiper

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Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« Reply #136 on: April 18, 2015, 12:52:03 pm »
I have to agree with the 'overpowered' swords thing. While, yes, it's nice to see Bern win (although did anyone really think she wouldn't?) after involved scenes of rather sad dialogue, I just don't agree that it's satisfying. Bern hasn't done anything different. She hasn't changed. She's done the exact same thing she's done before. Her technique didn't change. Her attitude didn't change. She just blocked, hoped for the best, and the weapons defeated the enemies.

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Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« Reply #137 on: April 18, 2015, 02:37:18 pm »
Something tells me she isn't quite done with those guys yet.

SAGG

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Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« Reply #138 on: April 18, 2015, 05:19:46 pm »
Wow, the sand net went after Ms. Bola, and the Flaming Bola went after Mr. Sand Mage., and they were BOTH too stupefied to react properly.  Yeah, Bern wins. It was so satisfying to see those smug looks disappear. Now comes the aftermath. PLEASE don't do something stupid, Bern. Just accept your A-rank and keep your mouth shut.

I'm wondering if that's possible. With that much power in her hands, hence my prediction that she could take on the warden. Do you really believe that Bern would simply shut up and be a Good Little Girl now? I don't think the warden even knew how powerful those swords were. Thing is, it's a good thing the warden's got Polly all trussed up, because Polly might be the only thing that's going to save her from being attacked by Bern. I don't know if anybody (meaning the guards) are going to be stupid enough to try and restrain Bern after that little show they just observed, if nothing else because they were as shocked as everyone else by what just transpired.  :o Meh. I guess we'll see...  :P

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Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« Reply #139 on: April 18, 2015, 05:21:35 pm »
Something tells me she isn't quite done with those guys yet.

Which guys? The ones she just lambasted are pretty much defeated....

UmberIsSexy

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Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« Reply #140 on: April 18, 2015, 09:01:05 pm »
I have to agree with the 'overpowered' swords thing. While, yes, it's nice to see Bern win (although did anyone really think she wouldn't?) after involved scenes of rather sad dialogue, I just don't agree that it's satisfying. Bern hasn't done anything different. She hasn't changed. She's done the exact same thing she's done before. Her technique didn't change. Her attitude didn't change. She just blocked, hoped for the best, and the weapons defeated the enemies.

I agree with this, you stated my feelings exactly.

I'm hoping that, like some other people pointed out, this may be a road to more satisfying stuff later.  For one, she's finally killed some folks, which is a new thing for her unless I'm forgetting something from the past. She would have killed Bloody Mary if she could have, but she was a "Monster!"  I wonder if this is going to be a difficult thing for Bern to deal with or if she's going to embrace her new power and suddenly release her massive suppressed bloodlust and craving to distribute death!!!!  No, just kidding. But yeah, this way of winning was so "Bernish" that it's sort of annoying, at least for the moment.

About the swords, does one absorb an effect and pass it over to the other to be released?  If so, that's kind of cool and opens up some more flexible possibilities in terms of their offensive applications.

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Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« Reply #141 on: April 19, 2015, 02:28:46 am »
Something tells me she isn't quite done with those guys yet.

Which guys? The ones she just lambasted are pretty much defeated....
Exactly.

Azure Priest

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Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« Reply #142 on: April 20, 2015, 05:51:49 am »
Wow, the sand net went after Ms. Bola, and the Flaming Bola went after Mr. Sand Mage., and they were BOTH too stupefied to react properly.  Yeah, Bern wins. It was so satisfying to see those smug looks disappear. Now comes the aftermath. PLEASE don't do something stupid, Bern. Just accept your A-rank and keep your mouth shut.

I'm wondering if that's possible. With that much power in her hands, hence my prediction that she could take on the warden. Do you really believe that Bern would simply shut up and be a Good Little Girl now? I don't think the warden even knew how powerful those swords were. Thing is, it's a good thing the warden's got Polly all trussed up, because Polly might be the only thing that's going to save her from being attacked by Bern. I don't know if anybody (meaning the guards) are going to be stupid enough to try and restrain Bern after that little show they just observed, if nothing else because they were as shocked as everyone else by what just transpired.  :o Meh. I guess we'll see...  :P

And that would be STUPID, as she's still in jail and has to work off her marks. If she revolts now, all she's going to accomplish is making things worse or getting herself killed. (The guards wouldn't have to restrain her. They could just label her a violent, and extremely dangerous threat and attack her from a distance with crossbows.)

Remember, this arena has been around a long, long time. They have measures in place to deal with riots and armed revolts. The best thing for Bern right now is to clear up her marks, get out of jail and then protest. There's no law against speech in this country.

sunphoenix

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Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« Reply #143 on: April 20, 2015, 06:46:22 am »
Yeah, I agree.. Bern's got no call to just go nuts and violent all of a sudden.  She can clearly defend herself and ...dude she didn't even have to attack those two.. nor can they claim she used lethal force on them.. their OWN attacks did them in as clearly THEY were using leathal force!

She should just fight her battles, pay her marks and walk away... free.. and GREATLY Feared!
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein


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Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« Reply #144 on: April 20, 2015, 07:25:51 am »
Yeah, I agree.. Bern's got no call to just go nuts and violent all of a sudden.

So frustration is not a thing? Polly getting passed around for 20 days, being in this situation for wanting to help, polly getting dragged into this in the first place, grant now no longer having anything, being denied contact to may. Not frustrating?

Also she is in an environment that requires her to go nutty on enemies so it's "entertaining", don't forget that.

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Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« Reply #145 on: April 20, 2015, 09:24:13 am »
Wow, the sand net went after Ms. Bola, and the Flaming Bola went after Mr. Sand Mage., and they were BOTH too stupefied to react properly.  Yeah, Bern wins. It was so satisfying to see those smug looks disappear. Now comes the aftermath. PLEASE don't do something stupid, Bern. Just accept your A-rank and keep your mouth shut.

I'm wondering if that's possible. With that much power in her hands, hence my prediction that she could take on the warden. Do you really believe that Bern would simply shut up and be a Good Little Girl now? I don't think the warden even knew how powerful those swords were. Thing is, it's a good thing the warden's got Polly all trussed up, because Polly might be the only thing that's going to save her from being attacked by Bern. I don't know if anybody (meaning the guards) are going to be stupid enough to try and restrain Bern after that little show they just observed, if nothing else because they were as shocked as everyone else by what just transpired.  :o Meh. I guess we'll see...  :P

And that would be STUPID, as she's still in jail and has to work off her marks. If she revolts now, all she's going to accomplish is making things worse or getting herself killed. (The guards wouldn't have to restrain her. They could just label her a violent, and extremely dangerous threat and attack her from a distance with crossbows.)

Remember, this arena has been around a long, long time. They have measures in place to deal with riots and armed revolts. The best thing for Bern right now is to clear up her marks, get out of jail and then protest. There's no law against speech in this country.

We really don't know how powerful those swords are. For all you know, if the guards shoot arrows at her, the swords would repel the arrows back at the guards. Heck, who knows if one of the guards would panic after seeing the battle and shoot an arrow or two anyway at her, forcing the swords to defend her, (and thus forcing Bern to defend herself), and set in motion chaos?

sunphoenix

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Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« Reply #146 on: April 20, 2015, 10:45:56 am »
Yeah, I agree.. Bern's got no call to just go nuts and violent all of a sudden.

So frustration is not a thing? Polly getting passed around for 20 days, being in this situation for wanting to help, polly getting dragged into this in the first place, grant now no longer having anything, being denied contact to may. Not frustrating?

Also she is in an environment that requires her to go nutty on enemies so it's "entertaining", don't forget that.

All good points.. admittedly.  We have never seen Bern loose her temper and hurt someone to make a point... she has threatend violence.. and we never got to see.. if when the Healer she threatened decided to 'call her bluff'.. would Bern have really inflicted bodily injury on the healer if she had STILL refused to help heal her father?

Point of note.. the only 'real' beating Bern has ever had {besides the beating the Warden gave her 'and let's face it... Bern's heart was not really in that fight'}.. was the fight with Ex-Sir Derricks.  And YET even after the vicious murderous assault by him and his attempted rape/murder of her.. she did NOT try to kill him when the collar was disenchanted!  Oh she slugged him one true.. but she was not vengeful seeking to inflict evil-for-evil upon him. 

Bern is a gentle woman.. as far as I can tell ...without a hateful or cruel bone in her body.  Though... THIS situation is indeed a Very trying and stressful situation.  It will be interesting to see if the look of shocked-disdain for the crowd's cheering will turn to hate and spite? 

THAT may be the real test of her... to maintain that spirit of gentle purity and nobility not giving into violence and rage in the face of this brutally violent situation!
« Last Edit: April 20, 2015, 10:48:58 am by sunphoenix »
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein


bulmabriefs144

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Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« Reply #147 on: April 20, 2015, 11:00:52 am »
Quote
And that would be STUPID, as she's still in jail and has to work off her marks. If she revolts now, all she's going to accomplish is making things worse or getting herself killed. (The guards wouldn't have to restrain her. They could just label her a violent, and extremely dangerous threat and attack her from a distance with crossbows.)

Remember, this arena has been around a long, long time. They have measures in place to deal with riots and armed revolts. The best thing for Bern right now is to clear up her marks, get out of jail and then protest. There's no law against speech in this country.

Given what everyone just witnessed, I don't think that's happening. They may however try to sway public opinion against her, or neglect her (they don't HAVE to feed her).

That said, the public ummmm seems to be on her side. Even if they tried to call her a cheater, or act like a fake win, the audience wouldn't care.

Which brings up an interesting point. I don't know that Bern actually knows what to do with praise.

Everyone has some aspect of themselves that is dark. But for Bern, I think self-hatred is a priority over any hatred of the crowd. As far as the Healer, she was just angry. I think if called on it, she might have been unable to carry out her threat. Not sure though. I don't think I'd like to see her cruel or hateful, but I know what you mean, it's pretty stressful, and she may hurt lots of people without meaning to. Hopefully, she'll be able to live with herself when this is all over.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2015, 11:07:57 am by bulmabriefs144 »
"この世界の悪があれば本当に、それは人類の心の内にあります."
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Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« Reply #148 on: April 21, 2015, 05:41:29 am »
Bern, this is where you take a bow and accept your rank-up prize.

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Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« Reply #149 on: April 21, 2015, 02:10:14 pm »
Bern, this is where you take a bow and accept your rank-up prize.

You hope...  ;D