Author Topic: Chapter 42: Discussion  (Read 26931 times)

Azure Priest

  • Cage Dancer
  • **
  • Posts: 359
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« Reply #60 on: November 22, 2014, 05:20:33 am »
You all seem to forget another hidden option: Escape....  ;D

And how far would either of them get?

The warden alone has shown that she's more than capable of taking on either Bern or Polly with ease single handed. She might have a bit of difficulty with both, but there's a rather large contingent of guards there as well, plus, if push really comes to shove, there's a bunch of prisoners that could easily used as cannon fodder to help take them down. Not just because they might get marks removed or moved up the mark system, but because they would ENJOY beating up a "weak and cowardly" girl who simply refused to fight in the arena.

Then there's what to do afterwards. Even if they DID manage to actually escape the prison, what then? They'd both be wanted criminals, and have the enforcers of the entire country hunting for them, and sneaking out of the border wouldn't help much as there seems to be an "international" treaty where criminals in one country are considered criminals in ALL countries, and if you think the treatment Bern's endured at the hands of Escalon's knights, and the enforcers here is bad, you haven't seen ANYTHING yet. That's just for the law enforcement. We haven't even touched on vigilantes or bounty hunters.

SAGG

  • Red Light Worker
  • **
  • Posts: 215
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« Reply #61 on: November 23, 2014, 12:35:13 am »
All the more to add to the story, don't you think? And haven't you forgotten that there's magic everywhere? Magic is...well...magic. Anything could happen in Flipside. Besides, where's all this info you're getting about treaties and the like? Bern and Polly would be criminals in that region, yes, but who's to say they'd be wanted in other regions? Heck, they'd probably be heroes somewhere else for what they did.  :P

Kiran

  • Cage Dancer
  • **
  • Posts: 321
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« Reply #62 on: November 23, 2014, 10:19:18 am »
I can't really see them trying to escape, if author really wanted to play that card he wouldn't put so many pages on the whole horrible fate options which await Bern angle.

And he wouldn't use Warden to tell us how weak Bern is every time because she didn't want to be active and violent from start, which Polly by the way should tell Bern anyway is a way to fight here, but for "plot" reasons to put Bern into desperate situation like cornered animal, she kinda forgot that while herself fightning seriously.

Bern willingly choosing to become a prostitute, a torturer/murderer or mutilating herself...
I can't really see any of such options making her stronger or better, all in some way will make her selling part of herself for easy gain of A rank match which itself would show she is weak and needs the special Warden treatment.

It would be nice for Bern to say fuck you to Warden offer and trying to gain rank normally even if that would take more time.
Sometimes the biggest weakness of Bern is her love for May so I can't really see her wasting such "opportunity" to see May quicker even if that will mean hurting herself but also May in the process, cause I don't think May would be happy with any option here for Bern as a choice.

mittfh

  • Rose Petal Acolyte
  • **
  • Posts: 116
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« Reply #63 on: November 24, 2014, 12:24:00 am »
There are merits to Option D - especially if Warden gives her the second sword. Sure it's the longer route, but given the fights are a spectator sport, displaying cool / unusual tactics (or badass levels of skill with the dual blades) could draw more than the average number of spectators for a match at that level, so over a month or two she may attract sufficient spectators for The Warden to consider bumping her up to C (or above). Use tactics that disable the opponent for a few hours, but don't cause lasting damage - thus playing to the letter of their law, but retaining the upper hand in terms of control over her own destiny.

sunphoenix

  • Cage Dancer
  • **
  • Posts: 348
  • "..you have to give love to get love." -Wendy Pini
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« Reply #64 on: November 24, 2014, 02:36:52 am »
Huh.  Well... I hate to admit it.. but I can actually see the Warden's point, somewhat.  It does not legitimize these barbarous sick choices in anyway~ but I get what's she's getting at.

Though this is a rather extreme school of tough love... I do not agree with, but I at least understand her point she is making.

Option A.  Rape or perhaps submitting to an assault upon your body in a most intimate and personal way is a trauma.. many do not recover from.  But there are many male and female survivors of sexual assault that carry on, survive and do not let the terrible crime destroy the person inside that is them.  That is not to say those who cannot just 'carry on' are inferior or wrong or weak... every person is different and NO ONE should have to endure such a terrible traumatic experience.  But those who do steele their hearts to not let that event ruin the person that is them... that does denote a strong spirit that is not daunted by tempest or trail.

Option B.  There are many who would shrink back from any physical harm.  The fear of pain is a motivator that can make the strongest person endure a untenable situation to avoid physical harm.  But a willingness to harm/main oneself denotes a spirit that is not quailed by the spectre of raw pain.  A spirit that is not invested in their physical body, willing to accept pain understanding the ones body is not who they are, but the heart ans spirit inside are not changed by the how battered the package containing them is... That is a strong spirit!  That is what makes true love still passionate though age may bend the body and wrinkle skin... it is the heart and spirit of the person within that inspired the love to begin with ... and it never wavers or dims.

Option C.  To inflict torment and death on another at the command or whim of others to some is no trail at all.  But to the kind-hearted, to the noble of spirit, to a heart that is filled with devotion for justice.. such a deed is perhaps the worse of all to have to endure!  For it is not the superficial damage of physical scars, nor is it the trauma of the sexual assault inflicted upon your person NOT of your control or YOUR fault... but actually wickedness and cruelty inflicted consciously by your own hand upon another!  I... personally could not imagine a WORSE or more traumatic deed than to be forced to inflict suffering and eventual death upon another for no other reason than the sick cruel amusement of others.  It would take a VERY strong spirit to endure such a traumatic trail and not come out unchanged forever!

No, these trials, these choices were Very specific.. which I now see the Warden has taken a 'personal' hand in arranging!  But what her motivations for doing so are still nebulous?   
« Last Edit: November 24, 2014, 02:42:57 am by sunphoenix »
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein


Azure Priest

  • Cage Dancer
  • **
  • Posts: 359
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« Reply #65 on: November 24, 2014, 05:20:31 am »
All the more to add to the story, don't you think? And haven't you forgotten that there's magic everywhere? Magic is...well...magic. Anything could happen in Flipside. Besides, where's all this info you're getting about treaties and the like? Bern and Polly would be criminals in that region, yes, but who's to say they'd be wanted in other regions? Heck, they'd probably be heroes somewhere else for what they did.  :P

I haven't forgotten there's magic everywhere. That's why the Phalanx exists. Crest's home country is the only one that doesn't allow the Phalanx to patrol its territory. If Bern and Poly escape the prison, especially using violence, the country could (and probably would) petition the Phalanx for aid, and they would hunt the both of them regardless of region. If they flee to Crest's home country, the Knights would come after them, and if the Knights can't handle it, they MIGHT let the Phalanx deal with them, so no, they won't be "heroes" anywhere. Brion did post a basic diplomatic overview and the nation-states map at one point.

Point is, fleeing the country won't help much.

Shazam

  • Collared Pet
  • *
  • Posts: 59
  • Better than Morning Coffee
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« Reply #66 on: November 24, 2014, 10:22:32 am »
I find it interesting that many in the forum were on a similar page to the warden.

Bern has put herself in a tight spot, she's squandered Polly's sacrifice by continuing to be passive and unwilling to do what's needed in her situation. She now has a set of options that will assess her values for what is the least inimical option to help her get free in months instead of years.

Truthfully, I'd find it most interesting if she chose something other than B. B is boring. It's the 'I'm too pure and good and vanilla' choice. I couldn't bear to use my body for sex for a night, and can't actually torture someone, so I'll sniff sniff sacrifice myself.

It would be interesting if Bern has a bit of an epiphany and if she's going to step up, instead thinks, "Losing an eye here could be fatal as there's no reason to think they will heal it and I can't afford to. If I want to see May again, I'll just have to choose..." I'd assume A in that case, but who knows. Now she'll have made a real sacrifice to get out. Sacrificing some of her innocence. That's character growth. An eye is just something to get a healing potion, not a trauma for a warrior, or a vanilla goody two shoes.

We'll see. As I said, I'm enjoying this chapter a great deal. Conflict reveals character.

SAGG

  • Red Light Worker
  • **
  • Posts: 215
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« Reply #67 on: November 24, 2014, 11:00:34 am »
All the more to add to the story, don't you think? And haven't you forgotten that there's magic everywhere? Magic is...well...magic. Anything could happen in Flipside. Besides, where's all this info you're getting about treaties and the like? Bern and Polly would be criminals in that region, yes, but who's to say they'd be wanted in other regions? Heck, they'd probably be heroes somewhere else for what they did.  :P

I haven't forgotten there's magic everywhere. That's why the Phalanx exists. Crest's home country is the only one that doesn't allow the Phalanx to patrol its territory. If Bern and Poly escape the prison, especially using violence, the country could (and probably would) petition the Phalanx for aid, and they would hunt the both of them regardless of region. If they flee to Crest's home country, the Knights would come after them, and if the Knights can't handle it, they MIGHT let the Phalanx deal with them, so no, they won't be "heroes" anywhere. Brion did post a basic diplomatic overview and the nation-states map at one point.

Point is, fleeing the country won't help much.

Okay, then, what would YOU choose? It's simply not in Bern's nature to do any of these choices given to her, based on what we know. Give me a definitive one you believe she'll take, and stick to it. If you're going to put down my position, then at least defend your option, whichever it is...  ::)

sunphoenix

  • Cage Dancer
  • **
  • Posts: 348
  • "..you have to give love to get love." -Wendy Pini
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« Reply #68 on: November 24, 2014, 12:19:20 pm »
Okay, then, what would YOU choose?

I know its not pointed at me... but it would be irrelevant for me to choose.. I would not be in this situation.  I would have fought good and hard to get out as quickly as possible.. being as merciful as I could but more interested in getting out than making a pointless moral show of false pacifism.

I'm a warrior... I don't like to fight and I despise pointless killing, but if I was ready to draw steel to save my father's life.. you can bet damn well I'd be willing to stand by that decision to the bitter or distasteful end!
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein


Kiran

  • Cage Dancer
  • **
  • Posts: 321
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« Reply #69 on: November 25, 2014, 02:45:29 am »
For me Bern choosing option 1 would be kinda stupid, she loves May and want to see her faster so to do that she will willingly cheat on her with random strangers for whole night to make that happen?

And we talk about a person who is a shy monogamous lesbian who so far had 2 sexual partners in the comic with who she was intimate which based solely on the romantic feelings they shared(we could also add Polly here as 3rd unrequited option), and who is also easy embarrassed by even her friends or associates seeing her nude body, and now such person would be forced to undress herself and spend whole night of becoming sexual slave(which means vaginal, anal and also possibly oral sex, or even double penetration and all that without considering her anything other than a piece of meat to fuck) by random group of guys.

Question is why Bern need to meet with May right away, I know Bern loves her, but that is childish and it's her biggest weakness, she should just grit her teeth, acknowledge that she fucked up and take the punishment as real warrior to climb the rank normally using only her skills and not the selling her body or injuring it or killing someone else for the shortcut promotion, choosing that would be showing she is indeed weak.

After all Polly will go out earlier than her, she just can ask Polly to give May a message and then they could go back here and pay for Bern marks if needed.
This whole drama if you will read from start is basically over nothing.
So what, Bern will see May 6 months or even later than with original plan(cause even if she is rank D with two magical swords and changing her attitude towards fights for real she will climb back fast), is Bern so insecure in her love with Maytag that she thinks May will find someone else during that time enough to accept one of the crazy deals which would make her giving important part of herself over literally nothing?
Cause even once Bern didn't think how this would affect her own life, just it's all over I will see May later than planned thing.
She needs to become a bit of selfish person. An individual should not degrade herself so much over love for another where it's not needed and it is not life threatening situation for both.

Seeing how Warden played this all out into cornering them, Bern and Polly should just take a break, breathe in or two and resolve this like thinking adults.
But seeing Bern reaction from last panel looks like the decision will be made soon one way or another.

Shazam

  • Collared Pet
  • *
  • Posts: 59
  • Better than Morning Coffee
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« Reply #70 on: November 25, 2014, 08:43:05 am »
Option D is valid too. Working it off the hard way, but it won't be 6 months, it'll likely be years, and there's no implication that she's getting those swords if she doesn't step up.

maddhopps

  • Slave Groupie
  • *
  • Posts: 44
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« Reply #71 on: November 26, 2014, 06:27:57 am »
Unless she rejects those choices out right, option B seems the most likely for Bern to choose. 

Option C: She would probably reject outright because killing someone in cold blood is the one that goes most against her moral code, let alone throwing in torture. C probably won't factor in at all.

Option A: I just can't see Bern choosing to be a sex slave and a victim to other peoples whims.  Maybe if there was more immediate pressure and the stakes were higher, but yeah I just can't see her choosing that.

Option B: This option is the only one where the only victim and perpetrator is Bern. It fits in with Bern's willingness to self sacrifice, while not violating her morals. Also it seems like a moment like this was coming since Chapter 10 where Bern wondered if she would be able "mutilate" herself for the sake of May, throw in Polly's fate being tied to Bern's and I think we have the most likely option here.

Shazam

  • Collared Pet
  • *
  • Posts: 59
  • Better than Morning Coffee
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« Reply #72 on: November 26, 2014, 10:57:48 am »
Option B: This option is the only one where the only victim and perpetrator is Bern. It fits in with Bern's willingness to self sacrifice, while not violating her morals. Also it seems like a moment like this was coming since Chapter 10 where Bern wondered if she would be able "mutilate" herself for the sake of May, throw in Polly's fate being tied to Bern's and I think we have the most likely option here.


I agree. It's most likely, just also uninteresting. It isn't a stretching of the character, it doesn't raise any questions of moral conflict. It's just a self sacrifice, which offers no real character growth. It isn't even a sacrifice in this world except temporarily as they can regrow bodyparts. I've enjoyed this chapter so far, I hope there is more of a twist than that. Even if it's somehow a permanent loss, it isn't a very meaningful one in context of a story.

maddhopps

  • Slave Groupie
  • *
  • Posts: 44
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« Reply #73 on: November 26, 2014, 01:07:09 pm »
I agree that B is the less interesting option, but I disagree that the other two options would do more for her character growth.  The other choices go so much against her character that it wouldn't really come off as character growth and more turning her into something she isn't. 

I think Bern's current arc is building to making her more assertive and aggressive while staying true to her character.  I think the moral conflict will come once she starts engaging in fights and finding out how far she will engage in that violence the closer she gets to freedom.

As a side note some interesting things that can come from B (at least in the immediate):
*She'll have tougher opponents to help her rank up faster, but she'll be a worst fighter to start off.
*In line with the above she may be forced to reevaluate and change her fighting style.
*Going back to chapter 10 doing something like cutting her eye out herself, she considered impossible, her resolving to do so could lead to a character defining moment.
 *It is possible that Bern would refuse to replace her eye. Like her scar she may keep it as a reminder of something or maybe because of her Knightly beliefs. (Orransong also has a missing eye)

Azure Priest

  • Cage Dancer
  • **
  • Posts: 359
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« Reply #74 on: November 27, 2014, 06:05:23 am »
All the more to add to the story, don't you think? And haven't you forgotten that there's magic everywhere? Magic is...well...magic. Anything could happen in Flipside. Besides, where's all this info you're getting about treaties and the like? Bern and Polly would be criminals in that region, yes, but who's to say they'd be wanted in other regions? Heck, they'd probably be heroes somewhere else for what they did.  :P

I haven't forgotten there's magic everywhere. That's why the Phalanx exists. Crest's home country is the only one that doesn't allow the Phalanx to patrol its territory. If Bern and Poly escape the prison, especially using violence, the country could (and probably would) petition the Phalanx for aid, and they would hunt the both of them regardless of region. If they flee to Crest's home country, the Knights would come after them, and if the Knights can't handle it, they MIGHT let the Phalanx deal with them, so no, they won't be "heroes" anywhere. Brion did post a basic diplomatic overview and the nation-states map at one point.

Point is, fleeing the country won't help much.

Okay, then, what would YOU choose? It's simply not in Bern's nature to do any of these choices given to her, based on what we know. Give me a definitive one you believe she'll take, and stick to it. If you're going to put down my position, then at least defend your option, whichever it is...  ::)

I wouldn't be in that position, as I would have not refused to participate in the ranking test. Granted, I don't have Bern's level of skill, but if I was being tested for gladiatorial combat because I confessed to ASSAULTING somebody, I sure as hell wouldn't sit back and claim "pacifist" when it came my turn to be tested. Now if I got a "D" rank despite having done my best, that would be a different story, but Bern had THREE official chances to show her stuff and threw them all away.

And it looks like she took option "B." That's really going to hurt, both physically and her fighting ability.

Ooh, and Polly's got a point. The warden never did promise that the A rank-up match would be fair, did she?
« Last Edit: November 29, 2014, 01:00:54 am by Azure Priest »

SAGG

  • Red Light Worker
  • **
  • Posts: 215
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« Reply #75 on: November 29, 2014, 05:16:09 am »
All the more to add to the story, don't you think? And haven't you forgotten that there's magic everywhere? Magic is...well...magic. Anything could happen in Flipside. Besides, where's all this info you're getting about treaties and the like? Bern and Polly would be criminals in that region, yes, but who's to say they'd be wanted in other regions? Heck, they'd probably be heroes somewhere else for what they did.  :P

I haven't forgotten there's magic everywhere. That's why the Phalanx exists. Crest's home country is the only one that doesn't allow the Phalanx to patrol its territory. If Bern and Poly escape the prison, especially using violence, the country could (and probably would) petition the Phalanx for aid, and they would hunt the both of them regardless of region. If they flee to Crest's home country, the Knights would come after them, and if the Knights can't handle it, they MIGHT let the Phalanx deal with them, so no, they won't be "heroes" anywhere. Brion did post a basic diplomatic overview and the nation-states map at one point.

Point is, fleeing the country won't help much.

Okay, then, what would YOU choose? It's simply not in Bern's nature to do any of these choices given to her, based on what we know. Give me a definitive one you believe she'll take, and stick to it. If you're going to put down my position, then at least defend your option, whichever it is...  ::)

I wouldn't be in that position, as I would have not refused to participate in the ranking test. Granted, I don't have Bern's level of skill, but if I was being tested for gladiatorial combat because I confessed to ASSAULTING somebody, I sure as hell wouldn't sit back and claim "pacifist" when it came my turn to be tested. Now if I got a "D" rank despite having done my best, that would be a different story, but Bern had THREE official chances to show her stuff and threw them all away.

And it looks like she took option "B." That's really going to hurt, both physically and her fighting ability.

Ooh, and Polly's got a point. The warden never did promise that the A rank-up match would be fair, did she?

That's right, the warden didn't. So, I suppose we both had a point, didn't we? Bern could "escape" all of these options by not playing fair, whereas she's still also taking an option...

sunphoenix

  • Cage Dancer
  • **
  • Posts: 348
  • "..you have to give love to get love." -Wendy Pini
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« Reply #76 on: November 29, 2014, 09:42:38 pm »
... At least there's no raping.  ::)

But indeed it seems that no one official in this prison is going to act with any forthrightness... best answer/option is to show them your not going to play fool for their sick entertainment!
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein


Shazam

  • Collared Pet
  • *
  • Posts: 59
  • Better than Morning Coffee
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« Reply #77 on: December 01, 2014, 03:41:54 pm »
What's great is that each of our three 'mains', are separated and on quests that will challenge and change them potentially.

  • May has to deal with real emotions and find perhaps something that's been missing in her
  • Crest will have to take initiative, make choices and deal with the conflict that Suspiria represents of his heart and the potential harm she may wreak. Plus will have to just rise up to not be a follower but a leader in his own right.
  • Bern will have to face up to the fact that choosing to be a warrior means pursuing a path that involves pain and harm for people and that it isn't a world for the squeamish and passive if she wants to be strong.


When and if they all meet again, they may be more interesting and tested individuals.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2014, 03:43:53 pm by Shazam »

Azure Priest

  • Cage Dancer
  • **
  • Posts: 359
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« Reply #78 on: December 02, 2014, 05:50:41 am »
... At least there's no raping.  ::)

But indeed it seems that no one official in this prison is going to act with any forthrightness... best answer/option is to show them your not going to play fool for their sick entertainment!

AND doing exactly that is what got Bern into this mess in the first place, remember?

Eesh, three on one? That's tough even under the best conditions. So will Bern take option A or C? And who will she have to torture to death under option C?

sunphoenix

  • Cage Dancer
  • **
  • Posts: 348
  • "..you have to give love to get love." -Wendy Pini
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« Reply #79 on: December 02, 2014, 06:19:04 am »
AND doing exactly that is what got Bern into this mess in the first place, remember?

Eh.. that's not really in the same context.  And no it was acting to save her father's life that got her into this situation.  Weather she chooses one of their options or refuses them does not change her state from its current predicament.

However, three on one... could be tough but her 'obvious' handicap of one eye could also be turned to an advantage by a willy warrior. 

You know your opponents will see your side without sight as a opening.  Well~ use that to lure them into coming at you where you are paying the most attention feinting inattentiveness to draw them in and strike at their lowered defenses!  It will be hard.. but a very skillful and cunning warrior will find ways to capitalize on the obvious...

That coupled with some unexpected aggressiveness she could down one opponent before her foes realize she has been sandbagging all this time!  Remember they ALL think she is weak and timid! 

I would Focus on one foe immediately.. {preferrably the one most confident opponent} and striking that one down with unexpected ferocity will surprise them and hopefully stymie the remaining two's cohesiveness as they reassess their target.  Use that moment of indecision to hard press the second foe in a VERY Obvious and Aggressive Assault that can be easily defended against.  ALL to cover your actual tactic of drawing the third foe in toward your "Weak" side.. and when he takes the bait... DESTROY him also!  Then it will be a mostly fair fight of one on one!

If she is fast, aggressive, and cunning she can defeat them before they realize they ARE really facing a dangerous foe!

"Appear weak when you are strong, and strong when you are weak."

"All warfare is based on deception. Hence, when we are able to attack, we must seem unable; when using our forces, we must appear inactive; when we are near, we must make the enemy believe we are far away; when far away, we must make him believe we are near."

"Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt."
- All: Sun Tsu, The Art of War
« Last Edit: December 02, 2014, 06:37:07 am by sunphoenix »
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein


maddhopps

  • Slave Groupie
  • *
  • Posts: 44
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« Reply #80 on: December 03, 2014, 10:47:59 am »
I guess good on Polly for getting clarification about the type of A rank match Bern would be getting into, but at the end of the day it probably doesn't change the choice much. It is still be her best chance to getting out as soon as possible.

I also lost sight of the title of this chapter, while Bern would be a weaker fighter to start with one eye, she'd have a stronger weapon that is suited for combating magic and maybe other enchanted weapons. The way the Warden phrased it she'll only give Bern those swords if its used in A rank matches.

sunphoenix

  • Cage Dancer
  • **
  • Posts: 348
  • "..you have to give love to get love." -Wendy Pini
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« Reply #81 on: December 03, 2014, 02:18:50 pm »
Good ole' Polly is SO hardcore! lol! She makes me hot! :)
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein


maddhopps

  • Slave Groupie
  • *
  • Posts: 44
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« Reply #82 on: December 03, 2014, 04:02:20 pm »
I just have a hard time buying her choosing option C. I imagine that the person they'll choose for her to kill would be Polly (which she would never do) and even if it isn't I can't see how Bern is convinced  to torture and kill someone in cold blood, unless Polly is seeing some loophole there.

I guess the story could be heading towards A, which would be the least interesting to me story wise, but, eh, I guess we will find out soon enough.


nilinet

  • Slave Groupie
  • *
  • Posts: 39
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« Reply #83 on: December 03, 2014, 05:56:58 pm »
All choices suck... I wouldn't want option A, but it's the only one where everyone gets to remain physically intact and alive. But a woman would have to be psychologically strong, or plain callous in some way in order to deal with such an experience for the rest of her life.

I don't think any option should be taken. Bern needs to own the audience's attention- become the main reason why anyone watches. She could offer more than an ordinary fight, and be the misfit that challenges the system. ..But I think I'm thinking too much about the movie Gladiator. I'll have to wait and see how differently this plays out.

It would just be cool to see her become an anomaly that the colosseum has difficulty controlling.

Shazam

  • Collared Pet
  • *
  • Posts: 59
  • Better than Morning Coffee
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« Reply #84 on: December 03, 2014, 09:02:23 pm »
All choices suck... I wouldn't want option A, but it's the only one where everyone gets to remain physically intact and alive. But a woman would have to be psychologically strong, or plain callous in some way in order to deal with such an experience for the rest of her life.

I don't think any option should be taken. Bern needs to own the audience's attention- become the main reason why anyone watches. She could offer more than an ordinary fight, and be the misfit that challenges the system. ..But I think I'm thinking too much about the movie Gladiator. I'll have to wait and see how differently this plays out.

It would just be cool to see her become an anomaly that the colosseum has difficulty controlling.

There is this. While I was pointing out earlier that despite some forum posts, the Warden isn't on Bern's side and neither is the administrator. They aren't her enemies. She's just a tool for revenues for them. If she did reject the offer and started working to change her style and make very impressive fights, they'd react whatever they say. Why? Because it's money. If she starts being flashy in dispatching people, or breaks time records to finish fights people will get interested in her and they'll in turn promote her. It's the fans and bettors that drive matchups in fight sports. Become a fan favorite and she'll get her shots at promotion and even bigger fights. I doubt we're going to see her going through months of build up due to demands of plot, but it's IC valid.

sunphoenix

  • Cage Dancer
  • **
  • Posts: 348
  • "..you have to give love to get love." -Wendy Pini
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« Reply #85 on: December 05, 2014, 05:46:06 am »
Hmmm... Polly has a point. 

And to the writer whose story I'm personally enjoying... please don't feel required to pander to all the criticism of forum posters.  I was perfectly find with the story as Polly not being familiar with the inner workings of the Marvollo's penal system. 

Even modern police officers know what our penal system "should" be like... but that sometimes is hardly the reality!

Polly's unfamiliarity is perfectly plausible at least to me.
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein


Azure Priest

  • Cage Dancer
  • **
  • Posts: 359
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« Reply #86 on: December 05, 2014, 06:56:53 am »
AND doing exactly that is what got Bern into this mess in the first place, remember?

Eh.. that's not really in the same context.  And no it was acting to save her father's life that got her into this situation.  Weather she chooses one of their options or refuses them does not change her state from its current predicament.

However, three on one... could be tough but her 'obvious' handicap of one eye could also be turned to an advantage by a willy warrior. 

You know your opponents will see your side without sight as a opening.  Well~ use that to lure them into coming at you where you are paying the most attention feinting inattentiveness to draw them in and strike at their lowered defenses!  It will be hard.. but a very skillful and cunning warrior will find ways to capitalize on the obvious...

That coupled with some unexpected aggressiveness she could down one opponent before her foes realize she has been sandbagging all this time!  Remember they ALL think she is weak and timid! 

I would Focus on one foe immediately.. {preferrably the one most confident opponent} and striking that one down with unexpected ferocity will surprise them and hopefully stymie the remaining two's cohesiveness as they reassess their target.  Use that moment of indecision to hard press the second foe in a VERY Obvious and Aggressive Assault that can be easily defended against.  ALL to cover your actual tactic of drawing the third foe in toward your "Weak" side.. and when he takes the bait... DESTROY him also!  Then it will be a mostly fair fight of one on one!

If she is fast, aggressive, and cunning she can defeat them before they realize they ARE really facing a dangerous foe!

"Appear weak when you are strong, and strong when you are weak."

"All warfare is based on deception. Hence, when we are able to attack, we must seem unable; when using our forces, we must appear inactive; when we are near, we must make the enemy believe we are far away; when far away, we must make him believe we are near."

"Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt."
- All: Sun Tsu, The Art of War

Her official ranking challenge she explicitly said "I refuse to play your sick game." And here we are, looking at 3 years imprisonment MINIMUM unless we take one of those three options to "earn" the Rank Up match and win. Even then, she's at the proprietor's mercy in getting timely matches.

Poly's analysis does have merit. Lashing someone who has a LOT of marks to death could indeed count as torturing someone to death.

maddhopps

  • Slave Groupie
  • *
  • Posts: 44
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« Reply #87 on: December 05, 2014, 11:38:27 am »
Polly's C gambit makes some sense, if it works like she thinks, since most people would only choose the lashings expecting to survive. Convincing Bern of that will  probably be a big challenge for her. ( Will Bern be able to complete it should she choose C would be the next big question.)

sunphoenix

  • Cage Dancer
  • **
  • Posts: 348
  • "..you have to give love to get love." -Wendy Pini
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« Reply #88 on: December 06, 2014, 03:41:43 am »
Is there something a little... manic or just a tad too eager in Polly's eyes?
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein


das-g

  • Fresh Meat
  • Posts: 6
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« Reply #89 on: December 06, 2014, 04:15:55 am »
Is there something a little... manic or just a tad too eager in Polly's eyes?
My guess is, Polly's trying hard to defend her preferred option not just against Bern's conscience, but also her own.