Author Topic: Chapter 42: Discussion  (Read 27149 times)

Azure Priest

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Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« Reply #30 on: November 07, 2014, 11:05:41 am »
Or she may have to take on Bloody Mary who has apparently killed quite a few inmates (if not also guards) already and rather LIKES the "marks" system because she keeps getting sent "free food," and she doesn't have to worry about the Phalanx coming after her.

Trennicus

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Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« Reply #31 on: November 07, 2014, 02:46:10 pm »
There is a character from Book 0 that is supposed to make an appearance that hasn't yet, right?

Maybe that's who Bernadette will have to fight.

Furcas

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Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« Reply #32 on: November 07, 2014, 04:25:48 pm »
There is a character from Book 0 that is supposed to make an appearance that hasn't yet, right?

Maybe that's who Bernadette will have to fight.

Good thinking! My guess is it's Ashley.

Azure Priest

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Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« Reply #33 on: November 10, 2014, 06:15:10 am »
Or the "evil" sorceress whose name escapes me.

SparcMan

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Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« Reply #34 on: November 10, 2014, 10:05:45 am »
"The catch is, if you lose, you'll be my personal bitch until I tire of you."

mittfh

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Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« Reply #35 on: November 10, 2014, 01:17:09 pm »
So what's the latest state of the betting pool on Bern's oppenent / the catch? :)

Daisuki-chan

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Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« Reply #36 on: November 10, 2014, 05:50:33 pm »
Other than Polly and the warden, there aren't many interesting (at least since almost no one is a good match against Bern) known possibilities, are there? No, I don't think it's likely to be a Bloody Mary clone. ;p

Stargoat

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Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« Reply #37 on: November 11, 2014, 07:21:25 am »
It'll be the entire Chicago Bears defense.  They're looking for someone to put them out of their misery.

sunphoenix

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Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« Reply #38 on: November 12, 2014, 05:40:52 am »
"The catch is, if you lose, you'll be my personal bitch until I tire of you."

Um... yeah.  This sounds possible... this could turn really dark fast.  The warden may like girls too...!  Especially, cute little fighters like Bern!

Sexual predators come in both genders... unfortunately!

It'll be the entire Chicago Bears defense.  They're looking for someone to put them out of their misery.

Bwahaha! {snicker}.. sorry.. I'll bet euthanasia is still illegal in that 'no force inflicted upon any citizen'.
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein


Azure Priest

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Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« Reply #39 on: November 13, 2014, 06:28:43 am »
And we have the answer. The "catch" is PORN! Bern is going to have to "sell herself" in front of witnesses.

sunphoenix

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Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« Reply #40 on: November 13, 2014, 02:05:15 pm »
And we have the answer. The "catch" is PORN! Bern is going to have to "sell herself" in front of witnesses.

OH how horrid... {hidden lascivious grin}... that's soo evil! {Clattering noise of VCR and DVR being set up to record}!

:)

No... maybe heh.. but I think it might have more to do with killing someone inconvenient who just happens to be in the penal-system with her who the 'powers that be' have asked the Warden to make sure they NEVER survive to pay off their marks... or possible even throwing a fight intentionally so the house can make a killing in the side betting on the matches!  Surely you understand gambling is not illegal here and I'm sure there is a healthy market for it here in the land of 'CASH is KING!'
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein


SAGG

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Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« Reply #41 on: November 13, 2014, 03:06:43 pm »
You know, it kind of looks like the warden wanted Bern to be a stripper...  ;)

SparcMan

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Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« Reply #42 on: November 13, 2014, 03:46:10 pm »
You know, it kind of looks like the warden wanted Bern to be a stripper...  ;)
I don't think it's going to be as tame a stripping, but I think you're on the right track. I have a feeling Polly is going to have a part in this as well....

If I'm right, Bern's going to have to decide if it's worth sacrificing her decency and her monogamous  devotion to Maytag to get out of prison.

mittfh

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Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« Reply #43 on: November 13, 2014, 11:47:19 pm »
or possible even throwing a fight intentionally so the house can make a killing in the side betting on the matches!

That's quite plausible - after all, Bern's established a certain reputation (namely reluctance to fight), so it's likely the majority of bets would be placed on her opponent. If she loses, so what. If she wins, the house makes a killing and she gets a handful of points. Of course, that strategy does have one drawback: it can only be used once. Still, if it allows Bern to level up in the ranks, the rest of her matches will probably be win-win as people will want to watch them.

Azure Priest

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Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« Reply #44 on: November 14, 2014, 06:09:56 am »
And we have the answer. The "catch" is PORN! Bern is going to have to "sell herself" in front of witnesses.

OH how horrid... {hidden lascivious grin}... that's soo evil! {Clattering noise of VCR and DVR being set up to record}!

:)

No... maybe heh.. but I think it might have more to do with killing someone inconvenient who just happens to be in the penal-system with her who the 'powers that be' have asked the Warden to make sure they NEVER survive to pay off their marks... or possible even throwing a fight intentionally so the house can make a killing in the side betting on the matches!  Surely you understand gambling is not illegal here and I'm sure there is a healthy market for it here in the land of 'CASH is KING!'

I see where you're going with this, and yes, gambling does occur on the matches. Polly went and told Bern that en route. (Either that or Mr. Proprietor did.) However, that would exclude "opportunities where certain people pay to watch certain things." because the fights are public.

Shazam

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Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« Reply #45 on: November 15, 2014, 11:43:09 pm »
And back from my hiatus after my dismay from the 'reveal' in last chapter about Suspira and her parents. :)

This is an interesting chapter. In response to the comments above that the Warden is a fair player or likes Bernadette/sees her value, if she was being fair she'd have graded her above D when she landed a couple perfect counters. No one else in the testing even touched her. If she was being objective about skills, she'd have done something like 'Make her B... you've got the skills for an A rank, but you can't be so passive. You need to show a bit of aggression.' Note, I'm not complaining she left Bernadette as a rank D. Just saying, she's not an objective/friendly advocate. She's a part of the arena too, thus this entire current scene to get Bern to do something that will create value for them, possibly in part because she knows Bern has some real skills.

I do agree Bern had multiple chances to do what she needed to do. I can't imagine Polly who is a long time local wouldn't have given her more explicit instructions on what would be expected of her and how to perform to get out fastest. The only really odd thing is how surprised Polly has seemed in many scenes and how unprepared Bern is. When Polly decided to go to the arena with her, you have to assume they spoke a good bit off screen about Polly's plan and reasoning.

Overall, a good chapter so far Brion. Thanks for the entertainment.

Azure Priest

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Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« Reply #46 on: November 16, 2014, 06:13:10 am »
The only answer I can think of as to why Poly has been so consistently caught "flat footed" is that the "insider" rules are different than what the public's common perception is. At least the change in overseers got rid of the rape. (Shudder)

Now I'm wondering what those three options are.

Furcas

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Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« Reply #47 on: November 17, 2014, 04:48:00 pm »
Whew! Well, sacrificing an eye obviously isn't a good idea, since it will lower her chance to win her rank-up match (and subsequent matches). Being a sex slave for a few hours isn't so bad if there's no violence and protection against pregnancy and STDs is used, but Bern probably doesn't agree with me. Let's see what the third option is!


Kiran

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Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« Reply #48 on: November 18, 2014, 04:40:43 am »
As option 1 I myself can't really imagine wanting to please a bunch of perverted guys for few hours straight as night lasts as their sexual toy where they could use me in whatever way possible, the trauma would be enormous, and the thought I sold myself for some easy gains would eat me alive, not mentioning the self-hate from cheating on a person I currently love very much and stay in monogamous relation.
Something like that could destroy a person who is not into such things.
I would assume Bern feelings would be similiar on this topic.

I would rather agree to option 2 so far than 1.

If the eye removal is only temporary it will hurt as hell for a bit short while and then they should regenerate it anyway before Bern A rank match, similiar like they heal up people who would lose their eyes or limbs during official matches so they would be fit to fight later.
I can't really belive it would be permanent.

On emotional but also physical level option 2 would be lesser evil for Bern knowing her so far.
May too was ready to cut off her limbs for Bern, and Bern out of love for May could do the same.

Also from how Warden said things the people with money pay to watch Bern do things, as with the rape past incidents, looks like the new administration thought a little and why to give something for free, if they can put inmates in such position where they could agree to do it "willingly". Seeing how this all played out, it looks to me that the Warden and new overseer just waited for Bern to put herself in no exit spot and in right moment they decided to push her further so she would agree to this and let them earn good pile of money. After all Warden was here and listened to Bern talks with Polly so she knows now how to play this right and she also knows that Bern with time with her abilites would jump the ranks anyway, and this might be the only time to force her into doing such tasks.

The most disappointing thing here for me is sadly Polly, how come someone who lives years in this Marvallo system and is part of enforcers is so naive and lacking any kind of real knowledge, I can understand Bern being shocked how things works here, but seeing Polly being as much surprised is just strange.
I don't belive that system outside the colloseum works differently than the system inside of what we saw so far, money rule and everythins else is secondary and doesn't matter. It's a sick system cause a guy who has tone of money could kill someone and then just make some of his family or friends or he himself could just pay off the marks with money.

And the tasks kinda gave us who the people behind are, option 1 some perverted guys who just want to have fun with prostitute for the night and we have to admit Bern is a redhead beauty, option 2 looks to be some psycho option who wants to see a girl mutilate herself or he wants to do the deed himself as some eye fetish go.

I'm a bit scared what option 3 could be with the gradation.

Azure Priest

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Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« Reply #49 on: November 18, 2014, 05:40:55 am »
By "inside" system, I meant the subtle, not exactly obvious or public details of the system.

For example, Polly was under the impression that inmates are "entitled" to three matches a week. This was clearly not the case. In fact, prisoners are not entitled to FOOD if the staff is sufficiently offended.

Prior to actually being a prisoner, it would be understandable that Polly, who is an honest, law-abiding citizen, would not know about the "special services" that the arena offers for those extremely wealthy, and morally dubious clients, any more than you or I would know about "special services" being offered in nearby prisons unless word of them reached the news, and even then we might not know how far the rabbit hole goes.

Sadly, looks like I was right about the "porn" thing. This is one time that I wish I wasn't.

Cutting one of your eyes out? What the heck did the supplicant hope to gain from that?

I do hope number 3 doesn't mean fighting someone to the death. It could well mean a rematch between Bern and Bloody Mary, and this time without a sorcerer to help with the "fear vomit" curse.

wowfood

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Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« Reply #50 on: November 18, 2014, 07:06:40 am »
Well so far this seems like something my boss does.  "You have three options" where two of the options are the wrong choice, and the third option is the choice they want you to make,  I can't help but think that's the case here by the first two options given.

Bern is far too attached to be with anyone other than Maytag, and removing one of her eyes would ruin her fighting style, how can you counter without depth perception (or throw a brick accurately for that matter)

But I doubt option C is going to be a fighting one, she pointed out that these are opportunities outside of fighting after all. 

Warden appeared impressed by the perfect counter, but also commented she didn't have the strength, not to mention wardern seemed to counter her counter.  We could be seeing a training moment for option C. 

"Option C, you train with me for a month, if you pass the training, you'll enter a 3 on 1 rank up match, using these swrods" or something to that effect.

I also wouldn't be surprised if there weren't some secret S ranked fights for the most skilled people, (There may be and it may have been mentioned, I can't remember) Bern could probably hold her own very well in an A rank match with her normal weapons, who knows what these twin swords do. 

Azure Priest

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Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« Reply #51 on: November 20, 2014, 06:23:01 am »
"Torture and kill someone of our choosing." OUCH! And how would Bern NOT get marks for that? And since it's something that's being seen by "clients," it would be prime blackmail material too.

So far we have...

1.) Hurt yourself psychologically, and maybe physically (depending on how rough the clients like to "play.") As well as hurt your reputation, and destroy your virtue.

2.) Hurt yourself physically, and possibly cripple yourself. (We do not know if the healers would restore the eye afterwards or if she'd remain permanently half-blind.)

3.) Hurt yourself psychologically and destroy your reputation, as well as kill a defenseless individual through torture.

Bonus option: Ignore the "opportunity" and prepare to spend a good decade in jail trying to erase marks through matches at D rank.

There is simply no parallel in real world history for the barbarism on display here.

Shazam

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Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« Reply #52 on: November 20, 2014, 06:46:37 am »
"Torture and kill someone of our choosing." OUCH! And how would Bern NOT get marks for that? And since it's something that's being seen by "clients," it would be prime blackmail material too.

So far we have...

1.) Hurt yourself psychologically, and maybe physically (depending on how rough the clients like to "play.") As well as hurt your reputation, and destroy your virtue.

2.) Hurt yourself physically, and possibly cripple yourself. (We do not know if the healers would restore the eye afterwards or if she'd remain permanently half-blind.)

3.) Hurt yourself psychologically and destroy your reputation, as well as kill a defenseless individual through torture.

Bonus option: Ignore the "opportunity" and prepare to spend a good decade in jail trying to erase marks through matches at D rank.

There is simply no parallel in real world history for the barbarism on display here.

First, I actually like that Option C wasn't a predictable (Bloody Mary) choice, or a 'here is a special task we want you to do' plot. Woot Brion.

Depending on the person, these are all terrible things, but the sorts of things you hear people doing in terrible times. Sometimes people will sacrifice their self value. There are a lot of people who turn to prostitution/selling their bodies just due to poverty or for protection in jail lets say. Other people will risk injury or actively choose injury (such as selling an organ) to take care of their families. The last is the amoral one, but for someone who doesn't have morals or empathy for others... or who thinks they don't (I could see someone finding torture harder than they expected. But then there is Millgram's experiment.)

This is an abusive situation, but it's also a test of what is important. Is your sexuality important, is your body, are you willing to hurt others to help yourself?

The big question is whether they'd heal your eye. I imagine you'd have to pay for the healing, just like you pay for most things. Though perhaps the arena has a healer on staff to help injured fighters recover so they can fight more. After all, it's how the arena makes it's money too.

I still find my main grievance is how shocked Polly is. Polly is essentially a cop. The Arena is the local for profit jail/punitive system. Cops are very aware of what happens in jails, because there is tons of talk on the street about what happens inside. She'd hear folk talking at the bars regularly about how it works. She'd also have been sure to prep Bern better, even as a sometime spectator.. knowing that it's how you fight as much as how well that impacts a fighter's popularity. (Ie, all the top ranked fighters are flashy/aggressive, while equally skilled but boring ones are lower ranked.)

Polly had a plan, she was exactly the sort who'd know what sort of stuff goes on in the arena. Her constant shocked expressions and Bern's passivity coming in are out of place. I suspect webcomics and the stories don't get an editor though, so it's all forgivable :) Now, where this might work is if Polly is working another angle, and is actually secretly gathering information about abuses in the arena that go beyond the law after the scandal with the last overseer, and thus is playing up her innocence. I don't imagine that's what's happening though. Still, a resolution of her clueless behavior. :P

Working around that issue, I find the test posed by the warden interesting. We know May sacrificed a finger and would have sacrificed a breast for Bern. I'd think given her presentation she might choose to lose an eye. That said, and horrific as a night of unwanted (and likely unpleasant) sex would be, it would likely leave her in a better position to survive and thrive and thus exit the arena. I don't see Bern as she's been portrayed choosing in however, nor torturing someone. Thus B or D would be my guess.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2014, 06:48:50 am by Shazam »

SAGG

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Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« Reply #53 on: November 20, 2014, 06:50:38 am »
If it's the option of choosing to torture somebody, who'd place their bets that it would be Polly herself? You'd clean up, I'd suspect....  ::)

These people are really messed up in this place....

Stargoat

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Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« Reply #54 on: November 20, 2014, 07:46:44 am »
There is simply no parallel in real world history for the barbarism on display here.

Oh goodness no.  The Romans were much harder on their prisoners than this and as systematic.  What about the triangle slave trade - two or more months on a hell ship?  The cruelties of pre-modern China were for decades assumed to be a myth - they weren't.  The Vikings weren't systematic, but were quite a bit more cruel.  And don't get me started on the Harkonnens.

As strange as it sounds, its not that bad.  She seems to have some basic rights, which the folks above did not.  She seems to have the right to choose her fate.  No one is being out and out violated.  She stole, she's in jail.  The punishment of being in jail for years seems unduly harsh to our sensibilities, but the choices she has been offered clearly have been simply stolen from the less powerful in the past.

Shazam

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Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« Reply #55 on: November 20, 2014, 09:42:51 am »
There is simply no parallel in real world history for the barbarism on display here.

Oh goodness no.  The Romans were much harder on their prisoners than this and as systematic.  What about the triangle slave trade - two or more months on a hell ship?  The cruelties of pre-modern China were for decades assumed to be a myth - they weren't.  The Vikings weren't systematic, but were quite a bit more cruel.  And don't get me started on the Harkonnens.

As strange as it sounds, its not that bad.  She seems to have some basic rights, which the folks above did not.  She seems to have the right to choose her fate.  No one is being out and out violated.  She stole, she's in jail.  The punishment of being in jail for years seems unduly harsh to our sensibilities, but the choices she has been offered clearly have been simply stolen from the less powerful in the past.

Pretty much. One night as a prostitute, a painful but fixable injury or something violent and amoral but hurts someone else (which sadly we've seen many people are willing to do.)

It's only shocking in a modern sense, and because Bern is so utterly vanilla and without complex conflicts in her nature. It's why I like this chapter.

sunphoenix

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Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« Reply #56 on: November 20, 2014, 01:21:59 pm »
There is simply no parallel in real world history for the barbarism on display here.

Oh goodness no.  The Romans were much harder on their prisoners than this and as systematic.  What about the triangle slave trade - two or more months on a hell ship?  The cruelties of pre-modern China were for decades assumed to be a myth - they weren't.  The Vikings weren't systematic, but were quite a bit more cruel.  And don't get me started on the Harkonnens.

As strange as it sounds, its not that bad.  She seems to have some basic rights, which the folks above did not.  She seems to have the right to choose her fate.  No one is being out and out violated.  She stole, she's in jail.  The punishment of being in jail for years seems unduly harsh to our sensibilities, but the choices she has been offered clearly have been simply stolen from the less powerful in the past.

EXACTLY!  There are no crueler creatures in the world than mankind.. there is no depths to which men will not sink for sick perverse entertainment or callous cruelty!

North Korea of today, the honor maimings and murder in the tribal traditions of the middle east and India Asia, not to mention the brutality of Shariah law inflicted by zealots in the name of "righteousness", 'nuff said!

And we have the answer. The "catch" is PORN! Bern is going to have to "sell herself" in front of witnesses.

OH how horrid... {hidden lascivious grin}... that's soo evil! {Clattering noise of VCR and DVR being set up to record}!

:)

No... maybe heh.. but I think it might have more to do with killing someone inconvenient who just happens to be in the penal-system with her who the 'powers that be' have asked the Warden to make sure they NEVER survive to pay off their marks... or possible even throwing a fight intentionally so the house can make a killing in the side betting on the matches!  Surely you understand gambling is not illegal here and I'm sure there is a healthy market for it here in the land of 'CASH is KING!'

Guess I sort of nailed it!  Sheesh.  Not sure I like the idea that I can think like these twisted assholes!  :'(

THAT'S ENTERTAINMENT to these sickos in Bern's case!

They don't want a prositute... they could hire a willing and much more skilled whore than Bern would ever be. NO.  This is ALL about demeaning a proud and noble heart.  Some people get a kick out of hurting and defiling the purity of spirit in the innocent.  It is not lost on the powers that be WHY Bern is in this situation!  She is known to be a law-abiding upstanding warrior woman.. but she willingly broke the law for the sake of loving devotion to a father who hardly has been a sterling model of fatherhood.  Her actions in the arena showed her to be a gentle and unviolent young woman.  Yes she is a warrior, they know how good she is it can't have escaped their notice so for her to not give into anger or casual violence to save herself says something about her nature and heart.  She is a gentle soul without malice or cruelty or depravity in her heart...

To the twisted, jaded, and lascivious that is a 'choice' piece of meat to have fun seeing her whimper and the mental torment not to mention the shear look of shame in her eyes as her spirit is broken if she chooses option A of having to live with the memory of her flesh defiled by the perverse hands of lustful defilers; of the barbaric tasks they've set before her!

DO NOT miss the fact the Entertainment has already started.. they are likely already betting on which option she will take!

So eye guess its, 'say goodbye to the one Eye love!'
« Last Edit: November 20, 2014, 01:33:47 pm by sunphoenix »
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein


UmberIsSexy

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Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« Reply #57 on: November 21, 2014, 04:30:41 am »
Those are really hard choices. Knowing Bern though I would say she'll CUT HER OWN EYE OUT (ew!)

The telling point is whether she would look cool with some kind of eyepatch, and...of course she would!

Kiran

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Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« Reply #58 on: November 21, 2014, 07:03:25 am »
Those are really hard choices. Knowing Bern though I would say she'll CUT HER OWN EYE OUT (ew!)

The telling point is whether she would look cool with some kind of eyepatch, and...of course she would!
Eh, now I really want to see her choosing option 2.

Option 3 is not possible for Bern.

Option 1 is, but it would mean she would give up on everything she is and what ideals she holds dear.

Backing now out towards option 4 would mean that the Warden would make her stay here a very, very long time giving her maybe 1 fight per week to punish her for again wasting her time and these "great" opportunities she gave Bern to do.

So option 2 would be the least harmless one for person like Bern.

And I agree just seeing Bern with a black eyepatch would be quite a cool thing to see ::)

SAGG

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Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« Reply #59 on: November 21, 2014, 11:14:43 am »
You all seem to forget another hidden option: Escape....  ;D