Author Topic: Chapter 42: Discussion  (Read 28822 times)

Shazam

  • Collared Pet
  • *
  • Posts: 59
  • Better than Morning Coffee
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« Reply #120 on: December 15, 2014, 05:59:11 pm »
Btw, Brion. I do want to reiterate (because my critique of Bern's personality may be harsh), that I enjoy what you're doing. Most comic characters tend to be a bit flat as we only see them within the limited environment of the context of comics. Also I imagine some of the idiosyncrasies crop up over time. It's nice to see some of that lack of cohesion coming together and seeing others frustrated when they finally are apparent. So kudos :)

Azure Priest

  • Cage Dancer
  • **
  • Posts: 359
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« Reply #121 on: December 16, 2014, 05:56:38 am »
Poly's forgetting that she's already an A rank. This "deal" is for an A-rank-up test.

Warden has a really twisted view of what a warrior is. A warrior fights when he HAS to.

Someone who fights only because he ENJOYS IT is not a warrior, but a sadistic thug.
No offence but a warrior should be able to fight for herself especially in such situation when an alternative to it is to literally and intentionally hurting herself, mind or body alike, hurting Polly and also May feelings with A-B choices.

I really, really didn't expect for Bern to turn into such a weak willed person, I'm disappointed.

Perhaps I mistyped. Fighting for yourself is ok. Beating up a helpless individual who can't fight back is not. There is nothing "warrior" about lashing a guy to death who is neither a threat to you nor has done you wrong.

Now lashing a guy to death who is stark raving mad, foaming at the mouth, straining at his bonds, howling, snarling, and pounding on his cage like a wild beast, breaking the bars with a rather long rap sheet... that's a different story. Still nothing "warrior" about that though.

sunphoenix

  • Cage Dancer
  • **
  • Posts: 351
  • "..you have to give love to get love." -Wendy Pini
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« Reply #122 on: December 17, 2014, 12:52:58 pm »
"I'll do all three!"

Er..wow.  Damn... now THAT'S devotion!  But, I'm Certain... Bern will NOT allow that!
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein


Shazam

  • Collared Pet
  • *
  • Posts: 59
  • Better than Morning Coffee
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« Reply #123 on: December 17, 2014, 01:31:29 pm »
"I'll do all three!"

Er..wow.  Damn... now THAT'S devotion!  But, I'm Certain... Bern will NOT allow that!

Or why the warden would even really care. Can likely get lots of people to do it, but it was a test for Bern. Plus all the same issues remain on B and survival. Lastly, yes... it would rather undermine this being a story for Bern's growth. I'm trusting Brion won't take us down that path :P At least hopefully it will galvanize Bern to stop whining and act to stop her.

Kiran

  • Cage Dancer
  • **
  • Posts: 322
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« Reply #124 on: December 17, 2014, 03:01:50 pm »
I hope Warden won't agree, but why not?

She sees that Bern is too weak to really do any of them, and that if one girl will do all 3 then her organisation will get quite a nice profit.
And we clearly see that Warden became bored and annoyed with them so allowing Polly to do it out of love and devotion for Bern will even more punish Bern here which she might allow for "fun".

Wouldn't that be a real character development for Bern, become a complete coward and ultimate pacifist who will sacrifice a woman who clearly loves her for her own personal benefit of seeing May quicker?
That would be quite selfish which many wanted to see Bern acting like, using someone else well-being and body for her own gains :P

And everything to stop it is just Bern saying either "I choose option C or D", cause as we see Polly is quite fanatically desperate to be again Bern saving angel, I bet even if Bern choosed A Polly still would want to cover for her instead. So now we can see that Polly is on the same level as May in love for Bern, she's willing to sacrifice her body for her like May did.

I just hope Bern is better than this to allow it.
Maybe this will finally push her to make a choice for herself.

Kamui

  • Tender Young Virgin
  • *
  • Posts: 18
    • MSN Messenger - kamuihyuga@gmail.com
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« Reply #125 on: December 17, 2014, 03:52:06 pm »
"I could care less about your problems."

Come on Brion, the phrase is couldn't care less.  Regarding the story, it's getting interesting, wonder what Bern's reaction will be.

Shazam

  • Collared Pet
  • *
  • Posts: 59
  • Better than Morning Coffee
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« Reply #126 on: December 17, 2014, 07:31:52 pm »
Wouldn't that be a real character development for Bern, become a complete coward and ultimate pacifist who will sacrifice a woman who clearly loves her for her own personal benefit of seeing May quicker?
That would be quite selfish which many wanted to see Bern acting like, using someone else well-being and body for her own gains :P

I suppose that's true. Would be an amusing turn. :P Not very protagonist worthy, but certainly would be char development!

Azure Priest

  • Cage Dancer
  • **
  • Posts: 359
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« Reply #127 on: December 18, 2014, 05:53:17 am »
Polly. I know you're upset, but don't go there, just don't.

It won't help anybody. Not in the slightest.

9_6

  • Guest
Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« Reply #128 on: December 18, 2014, 11:11:22 pm »
If she could care less that means she cares because she could care less you know...

sunphoenix

  • Cage Dancer
  • **
  • Posts: 351
  • "..you have to give love to get love." -Wendy Pini
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« Reply #129 on: December 25, 2014, 06:05:05 am »
Boy these intermission strips remind me of the joke...
"How do you keep an idiot in suspense?
I'll tell you later..."
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein


SparcMan

  • Slave Groupie
  • *
  • Posts: 44
    • View Profile
    • SparcMan's World
    • Email
Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« Reply #130 on: December 29, 2014, 07:13:26 pm »
Ok Bern, if you don't freaking grow a backbone and take on this challenge yourself, I'm going to be very disappointed with your weakness. Seriously, how does Polly bailing out Bern on everything help Bern's character development. She's a little kid that Polly is babysitting.

sunphoenix

  • Cage Dancer
  • **
  • Posts: 351
  • "..you have to give love to get love." -Wendy Pini
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« Reply #131 on: December 29, 2014, 07:16:13 pm »
Ok Bern, if you don't freaking grow a backbone and take on this challenge yourself, I'm going to be very disappointed with your weakness. Seriously, how does Polly bailing out Bern on everything help Bern's character development. She's a little kid that Polly is babysitting.

I agree at this point Bern should get down right Fucking mad about the whole situation and challenge the Warden to a duel!  Winner take fucking all!
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein


Azure Priest

  • Cage Dancer
  • **
  • Posts: 359
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« Reply #132 on: December 31, 2014, 06:23:27 am »
"The price for you is ten!" TEN WHAT?! This is just ridiculous! Bern... really, prison is NOT the place to be a pacifist. Polly's been babysitting you since you got into the country. You're a grown woman, for pete's sake.

Stargoat

  • Hot Streaker
  • **
  • Posts: 444
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« Reply #133 on: December 31, 2014, 09:36:54 am »
Theory - The warden is a relative of Bern's, hoping to make her into a better warrior.

sunphoenix

  • Cage Dancer
  • **
  • Posts: 351
  • "..you have to give love to get love." -Wendy Pini
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« Reply #134 on: December 31, 2014, 07:22:12 pm »
Theory - The warden is a relative of Bern's, hoping to make her into a better warrior.

An interesting postulation... we have been told Nothing of Bern's mother, but the warden seems too young, at least to me, to be her mother.
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein


SparcMan

  • Slave Groupie
  • *
  • Posts: 44
    • View Profile
    • SparcMan's World
    • Email
Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« Reply #135 on: January 02, 2015, 10:50:08 pm »
Theory - The warden is a relative of Bern's, hoping to make her into a better warrior.

An interesting postulation... we have been told Nothing of Bern's mother, but the warden seems too young, at least to me, to be her mother.

Probably not her mother. But what about a sister? Or a half-sister?

sunphoenix

  • Cage Dancer
  • **
  • Posts: 351
  • "..you have to give love to get love." -Wendy Pini
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« Reply #136 on: January 03, 2015, 01:22:41 pm »
Well SEX it IS!  Bumping uglies~ all around... for everyone! {And honestly... we all seretly wanted option "A" ...even if we won't admit it in polite society! ;) }

--- I jest of course! LOLS!

But on a serious note... again.. Bern is playing into this~ "I deserve this.. this is my punishment for not being strong enough/ good enough/ better daughter/ better companion lover/ etc, etc, etc.. you name it~", mentality.

This is a development but I fear its deeper than that in that I don't think Bern has come to grips with the shame she feels for loving another woman.  I may be totally wrong about this ... but I 've always gotten the feeling Bern feels a little guilty for her attraction to Maytag.  Her thoughts of not being a proper daughter or knight etc all woundup in her heart that she has not decided to accept her feelings as 'normal' for herself~ because society seems to disapprove of such relationships or at least certain factions of society disapprove!  Maytag always takes the~ "No. I'm not playing by YOUR rules... rules are to be broken so I'll take option 'Z'... which is to say "Do whatever the fuck I want, regardless of what you think say or do!"  I'm not playing your Game.. I'm allowing you to watch me play mine!" 

Bern is too ...devoted to order and not rocking the boat to truly break free of her guilt of being a non-conformist {a lesbian} to the societal norms.  So she feels guilty and unconsciously believe she deserves to be punished for her choices.

... maybe I'm just pseudo-psychoanalyzing this too much but that seems to fit why Bern has not just said, 'Screw your rules... No! You've officially pissed me off and we're doing this MY WAY NOW!'!
« Last Edit: January 05, 2015, 07:26:01 am by sunphoenix »
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein


Azure Priest

  • Cage Dancer
  • **
  • Posts: 359
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« Reply #137 on: January 05, 2015, 06:40:58 am »
...Ugh. I just have no words for how utterly depraved this has all become.

UmberIsSexy

  • Erotic
  • ****
  • Posts: 1051
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« Reply #138 on: January 05, 2015, 07:04:07 am »
Yay!!! Bern chooses Option A!!!

Woohoo!!

Can't wait!

Can she bring Polly with her?

sunphoenix

  • Cage Dancer
  • **
  • Posts: 351
  • "..you have to give love to get love." -Wendy Pini
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« Reply #139 on: January 06, 2015, 04:02:39 pm »
No tears or sobbing this time. Bern has clearly made her decision.. her choice to spare her friend a degradation and trauma she would only accept for HER sake.  HERE is that Strong determined woman I knew was inside Bern all the time!  This is not a choice out of guilt... but to protect someone dear to her... Polly.

Come on Bern do the sweet thing and give Polly a long lingering kiss for her unshaking devotion...!!!  She really deserves something to ease her heart...
« Last Edit: January 06, 2015, 04:07:20 pm by sunphoenix »
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein


Stargoat

  • Hot Streaker
  • **
  • Posts: 444
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« Reply #140 on: January 06, 2015, 04:06:30 pm »
...Ugh. I just have no words for how utterly depraved this has all become.

Things do seem to have taken a decided Game of Thrones bent.

sunphoenix

  • Cage Dancer
  • **
  • Posts: 351
  • "..you have to give love to get love." -Wendy Pini
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« Reply #141 on: January 06, 2015, 04:14:47 pm »
...Ugh. I just have no words for how utterly depraved this has all become.

Things do seem to have taken a decided Game of Thrones bent.

Well the one unrepentant rapist in Game of Thrones.. "The 'fucking' Mountain Who Rides" ... got the 'shaft' his ASS so richly deserved!  So I don't see the comparison? 

Bern is in a way subjecting herself to the {rape} whims and desires of others for the sake of her friend... what could be any more noble or heroic?  I'm sure Sansa felt the same way when she was married off to Joffery 'The Monster'.

Plus it can't be too compaired to GoT as none of the main characters has yet been murdered at their wedding then beheaded and their body mutilated for sport!
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein


ducky_worshiper

  • Red Light Worker
  • **
  • Posts: 240
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« Reply #142 on: January 06, 2015, 09:09:09 pm »
I'm not trying to be rude here, but coerced sex - which this obviously is - is still rape, and it kiiiiinda seems weird to me how many people are excited to see one of the main characters get raped =/

sunphoenix

  • Cage Dancer
  • **
  • Posts: 351
  • "..you have to give love to get love." -Wendy Pini
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« Reply #143 on: January 07, 2015, 05:02:27 am »
I'm not trying to be rude here, but coerced sex - which this obviously is - is still rape, and it kiiiiinda seems weird to me how many people are excited to see one of the main characters get raped =/

Rest assured your not being rude!  But for the record I'll be perfectly clear... NO, I have NO desire to see one of my favorite characters raped .. nor ANY one else for that matter!  In the throws of some passionate love-making perhaps... but non-consential is a BIG no-no for me!!!

I was the first to say Bern would not even consider option "A"... but to choose it to protect a dear friend from suffering the same but perhaps worse is a noble and self-sacrificing choice.  But I do hope this does not destroy the sweet gentle lovely fiercely independent woman I like in Bernadette! :(

Keep in mind Bern can STILL choose to do none of the above.  She is only doing this to keep Polly from doing the same in her behalf... no one is forcing or coercing Bern to do this {save perhaps in a round-about way Polly}.  Polly is only trying to help her dear friend get out of years of imprisonment for being a loving loyal daughter.

There are many ways in real life to end up in similar situations ... meaning, "you do what you think at the time is the right thing", but the laws and bureaucracy of the government or at least people in power place you in a situation that is completely out of proportion to the supposed 'crime' you committed!  You just have to look at journalists, teachers and health workers in the Middle East and Africa to find similar horrific stories of the miscarriage of justice.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2015, 05:05:53 am by sunphoenix »
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein


Brion Foulke

  • Administrator
  • Experimental
  • *****
  • Posts: 772
    • AOL Instant Messenger - flipsider99
    • View Profile
    • www.flipsidecomics.com
    • Email
Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« Reply #144 on: January 07, 2015, 02:13:17 pm »
I don't even watch Game of Thrones.

UmberIsSexy

  • Erotic
  • ****
  • Posts: 1051
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« Reply #145 on: January 07, 2015, 07:39:54 pm »
I'm not trying to be rude here, but coerced sex - which this obviously is - is still rape, and it kiiiiinda seems weird to me how many people are excited to see one of the main characters get raped =/

HOW RUDE!! No, just kidding.

I'm sorry, but it's a comic. Let's not take ourselves too seriously. In my mind it's like a classy party where Bern is...yes, forced to do sexual acts, and it's a hot idea to me. I get really turned on by the "nice girl" idea. I wouldn't try to see it from her point of view, because that would ruin the fun. Would I ever do it to anyone? Of course not. I'm a "nice guy" *devilemoticon*

And let's be honest, in the same situation certain girls would feel good, having sex with strangers with no strings attached, being told what to do, etc. Bern has sexual desires but often represses them because of her morals...just like she's been dreaming about Polly and hating herself for it. The fantasy of this situation, and why the people in the comic would pay to see Bern as a sex slave for a night, but for Polly it would have to be ten, is the idea that somewhere, deep down, she might enjoy it or get turned on in spite of herself.

I'm just sharing my own relationship to what's happening. In Brion's universe, these could very well be total mindless and/or evil sickos that will end up butchering her at the end of the night or whatever, etc. etc, and that's another aspect of this whole mystery.

Yes, forgive me but I am excited...I want to see what happens. However Brion is a great writer and is going to present this in some way which will probably not A) be a porno show or B) dodge the topic/feeling/fantasy I'm trying to describe entirely.

I would watch the porno show though (not the snuff film).

EDIT: big props to Brion for that comment, both on the fact that you don't watch Game of Thrones, which is in a way badass, and also just for the one sentence perfection.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2015, 07:46:53 pm by UmberIsSexy »

Stargoat

  • Hot Streaker
  • **
  • Posts: 444
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« Reply #146 on: January 08, 2015, 07:20:57 am »
I don't even watch Game of Thrones.

Heh. You've captured the fantasy zeitgeist then. Good job.

Shazam

  • Collared Pet
  • *
  • Posts: 59
  • Better than Morning Coffee
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« Reply #147 on: January 09, 2015, 06:14:10 pm »
Hey all. Been wandering Asia for a little.

As one of the first to support option A (or really anything but option B), I'm glad to see Bern stepping up. I've said it before, the current arcs are interesting because they take the chars out of the existing party dynamic, letting us see them as individuals and addressing areas of their personality that need to be tested/fleshed out.

Bern just sacrificing for a 'new scar' isn't meaningful to her, and being willing to torture another is outside her bounds. We are defined in many ways by the challenges we face and how we do it, so I'm glad Bern is stepping up and hopefully will feel more plausible/fleshed out as a result.

That said, I personally have no real interest or need in a whole chapter of prurient exploitation of Bern and doubt Brion is going there. Obviously, can't just have Bern's need to follow through with her decision be 'saved', but I'm sure he has a path in mind. :)

Interesting here that Polly is making it harder for Bern to make her own choices, and actually more expensive. I don't see Polly's logic though. The Warden doesn't have to do anything. She gave Polly an option, but there is no contract involved here. What she wanted was Bern, and she got it. Lets see if Polly has just doubled the cost of Bern's owning up to her actions though.

Kiran

  • Cage Dancer
  • **
  • Posts: 322
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« Reply #148 on: January 10, 2015, 04:47:42 am »
Hey all. Been wandering Asia for a little.

As one of the first to support option A (or really anything but option B), I'm glad to see Bern stepping up. I've said it before, the current arcs are interesting because they take the chars out of the existing party dynamic, letting us see them as individuals and addressing areas of their personality that need to be tested/fleshed out.

Bern just sacrificing for a 'new scar' isn't meaningful to her, and being willing to torture another is outside her bounds. We are defined in many ways by the challenges we face and how we do it, so I'm glad Bern is stepping up and hopefully will feel more plausible/fleshed out as a result.

That said, I personally have no real interest or need in a whole chapter of prurient exploitation of Bern and doubt Brion is going there. Obviously, can't just have Bern's need to follow through with her decision be 'saved', but I'm sure he has a path in mind. :)

Interesting here that Polly is making it harder for Bern to make her own choices, and actually more expensive. I don't see Polly's logic though. The Warden doesn't have to do anything. She gave Polly an option, but there is no contract involved here. What she wanted was Bern, and she got it. Lets see if Polly has just doubled the cost of Bern's owning up to her actions though.
I have to say I'm getting a bit bored here, now we can bet it will turn into some kind of pissing contest between Bern and Polly who will sacrifice herself more for the woman they love, ironically I'm still kinda surprised that author didn't try to tackle this problem more openly from that angle.

Everything Bern is doing is done out of love for Maytag, to see her sooner, and being scared that if she was in prison for longer then Maytag for sure would find someone better than her, at least I see it like that, and from that comes Bern utmost desperation to do such options than trying to step on her two feet and fight normally and honest in choosing option D even if it would take longer. Like I sad I dislike Bern hipocrisy here that she can't hurt a random stranger who had choosen himself to be punished like that in option C, but by choosing option A and being an utmost pacifist out of the blue, she willingly will hurt herself both physically and emotionally, also will very much hurt Polly feelings of who she looks to be not caring at all or taking them into account, and indirectly will also hurt Maytag too who for sure would tell her not to do it for such little advantage.

If you look at it the slight possibility that Bern will be able to win against 3 trained warriors to get a rank up is for me very small and not worth the effort(but we know as readers that due to magical swords she will be able to do that anyway as plot goes), if it was certain promotion then maybe but it's not. And after such mundane forced scenario as option A gives to Bern I don't think she will be ready for such fight right away.

And it's a bit funny Polly loves Bern so much that she is willing now to sacrifice herself even more just so Bern would resign and wouldn't have to do it, well that's dedication and love. But I can understand her, she's now too as much desperate as Bern is here and too don't want to back down.

I bet Warden has a blast here, she just need to wait a little more, sit, eat some popcorn and soon instead of just of one night scenario Polly will be a slave for few months time of her remaining punishment and Bern one will change into weeks. better than she would bargin with and more money to her and the organisation.

But we also should try to imagine different scenario, would Bern want to see Maytag choosing option A just so she would have a slight possibility of seeing her earlier? I don't think so, Bern would gladly wait for her. So maybe Bern should start really thinking that her own actions here don't only affect her but also the people who love her the most. And should finally act a bit selfish and sacrifice a random stranger so she could get the best option for her and Polly who also loves her.  Also what if Polly said to Bern as last resort born out of desperation that she would hurt herself or maybe even kill herself if the love of her life meaning Bern would still choose option A and would be gone from the cell? People in love do the most insane things out of that feeling.

Furcas

  • Slave Groupie
  • *
  • Posts: 46
    • View Profile
Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« Reply #149 on: January 10, 2015, 10:53:04 am »
So now Bern will have to accept doing 2 nights! Polly will just have made things even worse for her.


By the way, I think this conversation has been going on long enough. Put an end to it already.