Author Topic: Chapter 40: Discussion  (Read 14097 times)

mittfh

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Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
« Reply #60 on: May 02, 2014, 12:46:29 pm »
She's probably just going to use it to retrieve her without having to step inside.

also it's cooler than just tying a rope around her waist

Almost certainly, since she issues the command "Abstraction" (as in abstract, verb, sense 2: to extract or remove [something]).

Well, Maytag may not have learned anything useful about Lehm's "Qualia" yet, but she's learning lots about herself! I can imagine several more rounds of this, with Lehm offering her the opportunity to take the money and run each time, but she'll respond with something akin to "I can do this. I'm not a quitter." Heck, she may eventually reach the point of being able to roam around and explore freely. I can just imagine her having spent several minutes in the cell, then calling out, "Hey, Lehm. Got a torch?" or even inviting him to shut the door so she can let her eyes dark-adapt.

sunphoenix

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Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
« Reply #61 on: May 03, 2014, 10:03:54 am »
When I was a little boy... I was afraid of the dark.  Not the paralyzed utter fear... but the I KNOW I'm about to stick my hands into really hot water if I ...'walk into this dark room' kind of groundless phantom fear.  My sister was worse {fear of the dark would paralyze her} and because I loved... and still do love my sister I put on a brave face for her telling her... "looks sis'.. there is nothing in the darkness other than a lack of light that can hurt you!  The darkness does not change the reality of the room you know in the light, there are no monsters that suddenly appear simply because its dark!"

But it was all a sham to protect her as I never liked to see her scared or frightened.  I was her brother her protector - her hero... so I said one thing... but in truth... I was also scared of the dark.

When your a kid ... so many things are frightening... it was the late 70's and such things as the glowing single eyed teleporting tentacle monster from Space: 1999 Utterly terrified me.  Not to mention the suspenseful horror of Ridley Scott's - Alien Movie and the proto-cthulhuian grotesqueness of Clive Barker's remake - The Thing {movies thankfully my parents were wise enough NOT to let me see}.  However, the available media [starlog, fangoria etc...} made scenes from such movies available to a young very bright scifi-fan kid like me; so though I may not have actually watched the movies {at that time} the imagery only added fuel to the fire of my phantoms fears of the dark.  I would spend hours in bed at night tossing and turning unable to close my eyes because of fear of what might be in the darkness and come for me with my eyes closed.

But one evening I was laying in bed wanting to sleep and tired but too scared to close my eyes; and I grew angry!  Angry at the darkness for frightening me so and ... probably even more so at myself for being afraid of what reason told me were groundless phantom fears.  I grew real angry and decided... I was tired of being afraid.  I was only 9 or so years old... but I got out of bed left my bunk-bed where my sister slept on the bottom bunk {cause she was afraid of the height of the bunk-bed}, walked down the hallway of our 'ranch-style' home large living room and went to the center of the vast room {at least to me as a small kid}... and sat in the darkness in the center of the pitched black room {mom had these real thick velvet green drapes in the living room and the kitchen door was closed - so no light came into the room from outside with the light outs} DAREING whatever was in the dark to come for me!  I was going to face it, beat it or die! :)

It seems so funny now thinking back on it now... I came to think of it as incredibly brave for a kid to do such a thing but it worked, I was utterly horrified but as the time passed nothing happened {of course} and the grip the phantom fear had on me was broken... I was still afraid but reason could fight it and win now! Eventually the fear lessened to the point I could recognize it when faced with the dark unknown... but push it aside feeling only a mild discomfort of being in the dark and act without fear.  In life I turned to facing all things the same way as I faced that fear of the dark as a child... head on... and I do so without flinching.

I know it was a much lamented movie for many reasons.. but Cypher Rage of After Earth put it well... "Danger is quite real... but fear is all in the mind.  It does not exist.. it is not real."

A better scifi movie and much better book - Dune, "Fear is the mind killer, I will let it flow over and under and through me. I will face my fears."

And in final a rather obscure scifi reference - The Chtorr series, A Season for Slaughter, {paraphrasing here}, "Fear is a mode of mind. A emotional program your mind runs but it does not control you.  You choose what mode of mind you wish to run.  Change the mode you set your mind to and you can respond to any situation in the best mode that serves YOUR purposes... but YOU choose that mode.  It is your response.  Your brain is the computer run the mode that serves you the best!"

So indeed phantom fear is hard to over come... but it is NOT impossible.

Way to go Maytag... you rock!
« Last Edit: May 05, 2014, 10:57:55 pm by sunphoenix »
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein


weirdguy

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Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
« Reply #62 on: May 05, 2014, 08:11:33 pm »
it's kind of like trying to see what's inside of the sun by throwing people into it

Stargoat

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Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
« Reply #63 on: May 06, 2014, 03:13:55 pm »
it's kind of like trying to see what's inside of the sun by throwing people into it

hothothothothothothot!

mittfh

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Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
« Reply #64 on: May 09, 2014, 01:27:59 am »
So Maytag's primary goal isn't the money. I'd guess her primary goal is proving to herself she can do it (finding out more about herself en-route), her secondary goal one-upping Lehm (who's just revised his offer so she only gets the one million if she goes at least as far as the furthest any previous candidates have gone), with tertiary goals of getting her own Soundstone show and being reunited with Bern.

ducky_worshiper

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Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
« Reply #65 on: May 09, 2014, 12:28:23 pm »
It sounds like her primary goal is the show and Bern. She intends to stop once she's reached that and not even bother trying, that sort of implies it's her priority.

weirdguy

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Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
« Reply #66 on: May 10, 2014, 04:55:12 pm »
she hasn't really considered what kind of things might have happened to the person who got the farthest, eh

Azure Priest

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Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
« Reply #67 on: May 12, 2014, 06:23:55 am »
Uhm.. who the hell is bob?!?

He's the guy from Aerith and Bob on TV Tropes. He's very popular.

mittfh

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Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
« Reply #68 on: May 16, 2014, 12:43:18 am »
Hmm... an interesting question by Rhodes.

Also, given May's lack of progress in recent days, perhaps the Dark Cell adapts to those entering it, so making it harder for them to adapt?

Azure Priest

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Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
« Reply #69 on: May 16, 2014, 05:05:12 am »
"Why, yes, Rhodes. I DO feel emotions. If I didn't, that damn cell wouldn't affect me much would it?" Maytag.

Rhodes: "But..."

Maytag: "I can also feel frustrated, annoyed, angry, resentful, and SPITEFUL, as I mentioned earlier to your boss."

Rhodes: "Er..."

Maytag: "I have known what it's like to be happy, and this is not it."

L0g0s

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Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
« Reply #70 on: May 18, 2014, 12:06:56 pm »
I haven't been online for awhile, and had to do a marathon catch up.

Dark cell.... interesting, both as a deterrent mechanism itself, and....   what lies beyond it?

nilinet

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Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
« Reply #71 on: May 19, 2014, 09:03:00 am »
Can't Maytag give it a running start and launch herself through the door, sending herself into a gymnastic style roll where momentum carries her forward?
Or maybe she can be strapped to a skateboard and sent in at a high enough speed where she can coast to the center?

Lol, I know that can't be the way this room works. I guess Lehm is just going to have to find a strong soul who has recovered from PTSD or some similar debilitating fear(s). Coping skills, ftw.

mittfh

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Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
« Reply #72 on: May 19, 2014, 12:41:51 pm »
Interesting theories, nilinet.

Unfortunately, as you surmise, the room probably requires you to physically take steps to get beyond a certain point - so if you came in on a skateboard, zone 1 would expand to x steps beyond where friction would cause the skateboard to come to a stop.

Ideally they could do with a tag-team of a very powerful unidirectional projective empath, and a very powerful unidirectional receptive empath. Except the room would probably interfere with the transmission :(

Abstract Vagabond

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Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
« Reply #73 on: May 19, 2014, 02:22:08 pm »
So, for Maytag to experience such fear for the first time, that actually works against her. But she should know that she's felt fear before when Bern's life was threatened. Probably not the same kind of fear, I suppose.

weirdguy

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Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
« Reply #74 on: May 20, 2014, 04:53:47 pm »
basically, anything clever that you could think of is probably undone by the room cheating with magic to ensure that you're not cheating with not magic

as if it is some sort of bullshit test created to only allow somebody who is "worthy" of getting in

sounds familiar

Azure Priest

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Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
« Reply #75 on: May 22, 2014, 05:02:44 am »
Hoo boy.

Maytag: "Your concern for MY well being seems rather shallow, especially since not only was I brought here against my will, BUT someone was murdered in the process. Perhaps if your organization WANTS better candidates, you might want to consider people who come to you willingly? So you can interview them about their emotional health first?"

sunphoenix

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Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
« Reply #76 on: May 22, 2014, 09:42:42 am »
"Are you sure your actually feeling emotions Maytag... you may be fooling yourself?"

Maytag calmly sets down her cup of tea, stands... AND SLUGS THIS ASS in his one good eye!

Maytag - "Yep, I know THAT felt Really good!"

:)
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein


ducky_worshiper

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Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
« Reply #77 on: May 23, 2014, 07:40:41 am »
I'm pretty sure this is just really really obvious "reverse psychology." Oh we'll tell her she's emotionally stunted and therefore a bad candidate and now she'll want to prove us wrong so she'll have the proper motivation to do this instead of just doing it for the money which wouldn't have been a strong enough motivation for her to be successful.

weirdguy

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Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
« Reply #78 on: May 26, 2014, 12:21:40 am »
this new page seems to be implying that maytag has only avoided emotional trauma instead of experiencing it, in order to endure physical trauma

which wouldn't work on a defense mechanism that projects pure emotional trauma

edit: hooray for adversity and character growth! really specific challenging situations for every character!
« Last Edit: May 29, 2014, 09:45:07 pm by weirdguy »

mittfh

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Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
« Reply #79 on: June 04, 2014, 03:10:00 pm »
Whatshername seems rather arrogant - maybe she'll be a new motivating factor for Maytag.

But then again, since whatshername has been walking into The Dark Cell every day for the past seven years, it may have required as much as a couple of years of that time before she was able to get beyond Stage I.

On the other hand, given the fear factor is generated via magic, perhaps there's an easier way - to cheat (somehow). Alternatively, given what Suspira's been up to recently, bring her in and see if she can do anything magical to assist (e.g. attempting to determine the spell source, disabling it or dampening its effects).

Daisuki-chan

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Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
« Reply #80 on: June 04, 2014, 08:48:32 pm »
I'm not sure Suspiria would be of much use if her magic comes from qualia and the qualia are uncommunicative and generally uncooperative.

mittfh

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Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
« Reply #81 on: June 11, 2014, 03:21:23 pm »
Maytag... Your mask is slipping...

Scary or what?! Anyone care to speculate on who or what the voice is?

weirdguy

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Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
« Reply #82 on: June 11, 2014, 08:03:34 pm »
My guess is dementia!

also, if the source of the barrier is also maybe the source of the secret of magic, I would suspect that it would be really difficult to cheat it with magic

sunphoenix

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Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
« Reply #83 on: June 12, 2014, 07:33:30 pm »
My guess is dementia!

also, if the source of the barrier is also maybe the source of the secret of magic, I would suspect that it would be really difficult to cheat it with magic

Uhm...WTF?  Dementia... possibly but, Maytag may be emotionally retrained..or is it sociopathic {meaning she does not know quite how to emotional relate to others} but her time with Bern I think is very therapeutic for helping her cope with that; BUT... [that all said] my point being.. I've NEVER gotten the feeling Maytag was unhinged!

So again WTF?!?!?
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein


sunphoenix

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Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
« Reply #84 on: June 16, 2014, 01:22:33 pm »
WHEW!!! Not Dementia on Maytag's part...

she's just int he presence of some SERIOUSLY demented and FUCK-UP people!
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein


mittfh

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Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
« Reply #85 on: June 17, 2014, 01:25:20 pm »
I think I'll nickname Marzia "Character Development" :D

Maytag's mask is likely to be related to the two personas she wears - the extremely confident, brash jester and the quite, sensitive non-jester (explained sometime way back when). We may be about to find out the trigger for her two different personas, while confronting her inner demons and learning to integrate her personality may be a useful prerequisite for conquering Stage I of Dark Cell.

Having said that, it would still be interesting to know how long it took Wotsername to conquer each of the three known stages of Dark Cell, given she's been trying daily for seven years. With that amount of dedication, it's still slightly surprising Lehm expects newbies to make significantly more rapid progress.

Azure Priest

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Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
« Reply #86 on: June 18, 2014, 05:07:16 am »
Ok. Really creepy. We all wear emotional "masks" or "armor" from time to time in order to function in society and survive. Sure, small children can let their emotions run wild, but there are serious consequences for adults who do the same.

Ms. What's her face used to just annoy me, but now she's diving right into "creepy" territory on a bullet train. Perhaps a side-effect of too much "dark cell" exploring?

weirdguy

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Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
« Reply #87 on: June 19, 2014, 12:17:05 pm »
the real moral of the story is the importance of braces

sunphoenix

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Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
« Reply #88 on: June 19, 2014, 08:04:55 pm »
the real moral of the story is the importance of braces

Nah. I'm more fond of, "More mind-numbing, loin-grinding sex.. always makes even the most psychotic - mellow and sane.. for a time!"
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein


Azure Priest

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Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
« Reply #89 on: June 23, 2014, 05:57:38 am »
Ok. She MUST want to die. Badly.