Author Topic: Chapter 40: Discussion  (Read 14102 times)

Brion Foulke

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Chapter 40: Discussion
« on: February 21, 2014, 07:37:27 am »
This is the thread for discussing Chapter 40.

mittfh

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Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2014, 08:48:58 am »
(Merci beaucoup! :) )

So, dinnertime, and we find out the enigmatic Marce is a bit of a seamstress. Lehm's evidently done his research and found that May tends to be more confident when wearing her jester outfit.

As for the ring not working, it may be that Lehm's disabled it, on the other hand, it may be that in her current predicament, Bern's no longer wearing hers. No doubt we'll find out in due course :)

-oOo-

[Update: 25th Feb 2014 - to avoid a double post]

Hah! Sorry Lehm, you've just found someone who isn't taken in by your charms and hospitality - bad luck! :)

Although knowing May, she may qualify it as saying either (a) she'd only do so with the express authorisation of Bern, or (b) she'd only do it alongside Bern.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2014, 01:17:50 am by mittfh »

Azure Priest

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Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2014, 05:56:57 am »
Or she could easily point to all her previous experience with Lehm's cabal and say "even if I trusted YOU, I have absolutely no trust in your ORGANIZATION" as well as point out all of Lehm's other "failures" and say "plus, I have absolutely no desire to participate in any of your experiments, seeing as none of them went well, even by your standards, although Melter DID call Mary a 'breakthrough' which directly contradicts YOUR assertions."

weirdguy

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Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2014, 10:56:11 am »
girl's still got her career to think about, anyway

organization is neat and all buuuuut it's not like they've actually offered her anything

where are the stock options, guys

SparcMan

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Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2014, 03:57:38 pm »
May's got the street smarts of 100 street-rats. And she's got the poker-face to pull this off. If Lehm does let her go, not only will May trust him more, he's going to respect her savvy-ness that much more as well. Well played!

weirdguy

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Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2014, 11:10:09 pm »
may's freaky eyes are the best freaky eyes

anyway, i like mind chess so let the games continue

Azure Priest

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Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2014, 07:40:53 am »
May's poker face is SCARY, and maybe, just maybe it's time for Lehm to give up painting if he doesn't like what those paintings are telling him.

Two weeks? Where does this 2 weeks figure come from? Why? He wanted a decision ASAP, and when Maytag gives him one, all of a sudden it's "give me two weeks to convince you?" What? Does that mean in two weeks, someone in Lehm's employ will come along who WILL force her?

After all, Lehm said HE won't force her, but he never said a subordinate wouldn't. (Looks suspiciously at Melter who obviously did something to Suspira while she was unconscious.)
« Last Edit: March 01, 2014, 03:28:56 am by Azure Priest »

sunphoenix

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Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2014, 08:05:24 am »
Yepo!  THAT'S our saucy shrewd Blonde 'Negotiator'!

..if ya hadn't noticed.. I REALLY dig smart women.. and blondes can Always get the best of me! lol!

"I want a girl who gets up early..
I want a girl who stays up late."


"I want a girl with uninterrupted prosperity...
Who uses a machete to cut through red tape."


"With fingernails that shine like justice,
And a voice that is dark like tinted glass!"


"She is fast, thorough, and sharp as a tack,
She's touring the facility and picking up slack!"


"I want a girl with a short skirt,
 and a lonnnnnng... ....jacket."


:)
« Last Edit: March 01, 2014, 08:12:36 am by sunphoenix »
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein


mittfh

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Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2014, 01:52:12 pm »
Lehm still hasn't realised he's dealing with a (pretty darn good) poker player, which means (a) she's not going to trust him until he's proved his honesty beyond all reasonable doubt; (b) she's not going to give anything away, (c) she'll be more than capable of leading him (and his entourage) up the proverbial garden path before making a final decision.

Lehm may be a biodevisor and an unusual variety of seer, but he is evidently not a poker player. He's evidently unused to people saying "no", and it wouldn't surprise me if he's occasionally used the two week gambit before...

maddhopps

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Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2014, 08:28:35 pm »
I wouldn't underestimate Lehm here. I don't think he really expected her to agree to stay for two weeks. Right now he just needs Maytag to agree to hear him out and any shorter amount of time he suggests, after throwing two weeks out there, will seem more reasonable. I think he knows he is at a disadvantage right now and that pushing too hard would get her to shut off completely. Considering some the experiments he got people to agree too, I would suspect he is on equal footing with May in manipulating negotiations to his advantage. It'll be interesting to see how both of  them play this out.

On a side note, I wonder if those magic swords will play some role in Lehm's plans. Grant described them as being made with an old sorcery, so maybe they predate the nanomachine magic.

sunphoenix

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Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2014, 11:05:15 am »
Lehm - "So sweet Maytag... you want a voice that reaches everyone?  I can... arrange that... drink this... I can make your voice so sweet and irresistible even straight women will throw themselves at your feet in convulsions of orgasms!"

May - "Uhm.. I've seen what happens to people who 'accept' your gifts of power.. no thanks!"

Lehm - "Awe common.. it'll be fun!  Think of the squealing pleasure you could bring to Bernadette?"

May - "Nope.  Your experiments Never workout right! Pass."

Lehm - "This Time for sure...!" {psst - 'hold her down guys.. this'll be fun!'}
« Last Edit: March 04, 2014, 11:11:30 am by sunphoenix »
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein


Daikun

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Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2014, 01:19:21 pm »
Let's see... Mind-blowing scientific discovery... Comedy contest...

Nice to see that Maytag has her priorities straight.

weirdguy

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Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2014, 11:39:23 am »
screw the mysteries of the universe, weasel a bribe out of the thin man

sunphoenix

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Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2014, 01:59:38 pm »
Let's see... Mind-blowing scientific discovery... Comedy contest...

Nice to see that Maytag has her priorities straight.


Hey, magic's been around a long time in this world.. it might be a priority for Lehm.. but that certainly does not make it a priority for Maytag!

The world has continued to spin for centuries.. it will spin for another month - I'm sure if the "Source of Magic" remains a mystery until then! :)
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein


Azure Priest

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Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
« Reply #14 on: March 11, 2014, 05:40:38 am »
"MY promise means NOTHING? That's a rich statement coming from a bunch of kidnappers, con-men, and various sundry na'er do wells."

mittfh

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Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
« Reply #15 on: March 12, 2014, 01:10:04 am »
And so Round 2 of the negotiations begins. I wonder how many rounds it will take before they arrive at a mutually acceptable compromise...

[EDIT Thursday 13th March]

I think I can see where this is going - Lehm will offer her one million gold if she agrees to do the dark cell thing, whereupon in return May will almost certainly ask for proof he can / will do so.
As the financial services disclaimer says, "Past performance is not a guide to future performance" - just because Lehm's been open and honest (albeit manipulative) to date, it doesn't necessarily mean he'll remain open and honest when the going gets tough. One million gold is a lot of money - how's he accumulated so much?
« Last Edit: March 13, 2014, 12:34:08 am by mittfh »

Azure Priest

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Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
« Reply #16 on: March 13, 2014, 07:06:18 am »
And so Round 2 of the negotiations begins. I wonder how many rounds it will take before they arrive at a mutually acceptable compromise...

[EDIT Thursday 13th March]

I think I can see where this is going - Lehm will offer her one million gold if she agrees to do the dark cell thing, whereupon in return May will almost certainly ask for proof he can / will do so.
As the financial services disclaimer says, "Past performance is not a guide to future performance" - just because Lehm's been open and honest (albeit manipulative) to date, it doesn't necessarily mean he'll remain open and honest when the going gets tough. One million gold is a lot of money - how's he accumulated so much?

Theft is the most obvious answer. His organization has "inherited" the belongings of most of his previous "test subjects."

Extortion also comes to mind. His minions have shown a complete disregard of legality, ethics, and morality in their dealings to date.

The Thin Man has shown that he doesn't care what his organization does, or HOW they do it, as long as he gets what he wants... FOR SCIENCE!! What's a little larceny or highway robbery compared to that?

weirdguy

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Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
« Reply #17 on: March 14, 2014, 04:36:03 pm »
aw yiss here comes the bribe

okay, just call him on his bluff, see if he is able to produce an inflation piledriver sized pile of gold
« Last Edit: March 15, 2014, 05:31:30 pm by weirdguy »

mittfh

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Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
« Reply #18 on: March 16, 2014, 12:39:59 am »
So not one million gold, but twenty million. Please May, don't let the rational side of your brain get switched off by the emotional side:

(a) you don't get something for nothing,
(b) if he's willing to part with twenty million, just how dangerous is the task he wants you to do?
(c) has he got twenty million gold?
If so, (i) what portion of his fortune is he prepared to give away?
(ii) will he really do so, or is he just bluffing?
(iii) is it a grant or a loan?
(iv) how did he acquire his wealth? Robbery, "donations" from previous test subjects, business / investments, or dug out of a hole in the ground?

It wouldn't surprise me if pushed on the subject, he'd claim he asked the Qualia how he could make money fast...

Azure Priest

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Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
« Reply #19 on: March 17, 2014, 05:49:03 am »
Ok. He's just taken everyone's suspicions and cranked it up to eleven! Maytag, sweetie, you, of all people, must realize that when something sounds too good to be true, it usually is.

Now I REALLY hope she tells Lehm to go f*** himself. Because there is no way in hell, I'd agree to "easy money" like that.

20 Million! That's more than she could possibly carry! Even if he actually HAS that much, how is he going to pay her? A personal check? A bank note? The Thin Man is a known and notorious criminal. No way any currency other than actual coin is going to be any good anywhere, and that much is more than Maytag's weight in gold.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2014, 06:34:34 pm by Azure Priest »

mittfh

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Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
« Reply #20 on: March 21, 2014, 01:14:28 am »
Wahey! Rationality kicks in - and May's comment that most people wouldn't see more than a few hundred thousand in their entire lifetimes gives a perspective to the offer - it's like offering one of us a few hundred million (or maybe a billion or two) currency units (multiply that by a hundred if you're somewhere like Japan where one Yen is equivalent to a penny/cent elsewhere!), since for the ultra-wealthy, a few hundred thousand would seem like pocket money.

On the other hand, he isn't giving off any tell-tale signs of bluffing, and those around him seem unmoved by his apparent generosity - which begs the question even more, how the heck did he accumulate so much wealth? Does he have his own personal gold mine?!

[EDIT 9:50pm]

Ooh - a conspiracy theory! To date, we've only encountered one country: Iscariot (Marvallo, where Bern is currently having fun (not!), is a region of iscariot - see Intermission 6) - but so far I don't think we've been told Iscariot has a monarchy (unless I've forgotten it!) - the Conclave are the nearest thing to government, and appear to be answerable only to themselves.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2014, 03:04:36 pm by mittfh »

Azure Priest

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Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
« Reply #21 on: March 24, 2014, 05:44:09 am »
Wahey! Rationality kicks in - and May's comment that most people wouldn't see more than a few hundred thousand in their entire lifetimes gives a perspective to the offer - it's like offering one of us a few hundred million (or maybe a billion or two) currency units (multiply that by a hundred if you're somewhere like Japan where one Yen is equivalent to a penny/cent elsewhere!), since for the ultra-wealthy, a few hundred thousand would seem like pocket money.

On the other hand, he isn't giving off any tell-tale signs of bluffing, and those around him seem unmoved by his apparent generosity - which begs the question even more, how the heck did he accumulate so much wealth? Does he have his own personal gold mine?!

[EDIT 9:50pm]

Ooh - a conspiracy theory! To date, we've only encountered one country: Iscariot (Marvallo, where Bern is currently having fun (not!), is a region of iscariot - see Intermission 6) - but so far I don't think we've been told Iscariot has a monarchy (unless I've forgotten it!) - the Conclave are the nearest thing to government, and appear to be answerable only to themselves.

We've actually seen at least one other "province." There's the lovely little place where Bern and Maytag met Crest. A place where the Phalanx can't operate legally because the Knights that run the place outlawed sorcery (even to cure a woman blinded by sorcery). Those who've read book 0 would have seen two other provinces that are not on friendly terms with each other.

As for the "king from a wealthy country" theory, it actually makes quite a bit of sense. A king hostile to Ishkarot would happily fund the Thin Man's "research," quietly. It's a win-win for him. If the Thin Man succeeds, the King would get proprietary access to unfathomable power. (Controlling all the sorcery in the world.) If the Thin Man fails, the King would have plausible denyability concerning the Thin Man's actions, and so far, all of Lehm's "failures" have been wrecking havock on Ishkarot, which, of course, would make a King hostile to Ishkarot (or at least with cool/cold relations) VERY happy.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2014, 05:49:00 am by Azure Priest »

maddhopps

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Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
« Reply #22 on: March 24, 2014, 11:12:53 am »
I wouldn't be shocked if someone called The Benefactor was sponsoring morally questionable research.

dg86

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Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
« Reply #23 on: March 24, 2014, 09:14:40 pm »
Didn't Suspiria off the complete conclave though?

weirdguy

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Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
« Reply #24 on: March 25, 2014, 01:57:18 am »
Well, it could be why he's come into so much money lately...

Azure Priest

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Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
« Reply #25 on: March 25, 2014, 05:37:57 am »
Didn't Suspiria off the complete conclave though?

We can't be sure of that. Someone walked away invisibly after Suspira's "retribution doll" cast Qtalda's spell on the Conclave. Still, it would fit with their methods to date.

Kidnap a girl, wipe her memories, and pretty much ENSLAVE her for their own ends. Check.

Wipe out her family and any witnesses. Check.

Set her loose as an abomination? Or call her "rogue" and issue bounties for her capture dead or alive? Check.

Yeah, I could see them funding Lehm "under the table." It wouldn't be too far a stretch.

sunphoenix

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Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
« Reply #26 on: March 25, 2014, 02:56:10 pm »
Hi all!  I'm on a different computer and had to do a search for the web site this time...

No I don't have the web address memorized.  Just wanted to comment that...Damn! There is a lot of hate and criticism out there for THIS particular Web comic..sheesh..!!  I had to parse through all the hate sites just to find the address to this comic!  WTF?!?! Why is there so much hate for flipside?!?! O.o?!?!

I like this comic and like the characters... do see why so many feel compelled to criticis this comic with actual hate website!  What's got them so 'up-in-arms' about Flipside?
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein


UmberIsSexy

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Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
« Reply #27 on: March 26, 2014, 09:24:15 am »
Enjoying the threads that are running in the comic right now!

I love Maytag deep in negotiation!

Also love Bernadette in ANY combat situation!

mittfh

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Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
« Reply #28 on: March 27, 2014, 12:18:02 am »
Hehe - May's having similar thoughts to mine a couple of weeks ago:

(c) has he got twenty million gold?
If so, (i) what portion of his fortune is he prepared to give away?
(ii) will he really do so, or is he just bluffing?

I just love the way she completely blindsided him with that :) If she sees evidence of his wealth, I wonder if she'll then ask him up front how he acquired it...

Azure Priest

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Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
« Reply #29 on: March 27, 2014, 05:28:37 am »
I just love the way she completely blindsided him with that :) If she sees evidence of his wealth, I wonder if she'll then ask him up front how he acquired it...

That would be suicidally stupid. She might ask  for someone to cast "detect" or "dispel" magic on it to be sure it's not illusionary coin like what Mors and the Maytag impostor used on their inn visit.

Edit: Well, looks like Lehm actually has the funds. Guess he means "you didn't ask me what it is I wanted you to do, what the risks are, or why it's WORTH 20 million."
« Last Edit: March 28, 2014, 11:59:39 am by Azure Priest »