Author Topic: Chapter 30: Discussion  (Read 70661 times)

gunsandrockets

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Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
« Reply #150 on: July 22, 2011, 04:39:51 pm »
Based on panel 4 of this page: http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic/book0/fs05pg14.html
1 silver = 10 gold

And based on the current chapter page as of this post, http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=1249,
1 silver = 100 platinum

In the Flipside universe, for some unknown reason, silver is worth more than gold and platinum (Due to sorcery perhaps?)

I think you are right.  The relative values of platinum-gold-silver are flipped  ;D compared to DnD.

gunsandrockets

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Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
« Reply #151 on: July 22, 2011, 04:55:11 pm »
I thought it might also have been a commentary as to how much the value of currency differs across national borders. I mean, wasn't 200 platinum a fairly good amount of money in Iscariot? I wonder if it's a parody on more laws and bureaucracy and its consequences. Or maybe Bernadette's general lack of street smarts.

Or maybe I'm reading too much into it. I could see Brian going for at least more depth in the world with the currency difference though.

If Marvallo is as free-wheeling as we are led to believe, I find it hard to believe the pricing for similar services would be so much higher than in Iscariot.  Wouldn't cut-throat competition drive prices down?  Of course if competition only left one company standing, a sort of "hotel trust" could develop that could force the price of a room artificially high.

Is Bern being conned by Polly?  If so it is a dangerous con since Bern must have been exposed to a variety of pricing already whether it is the price of her drinks at the bar (where Bern met Polly) to the wares hawked by the street vendors.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2011, 04:59:24 pm by gunsandrockets »

charles

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Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
« Reply #152 on: July 22, 2011, 05:35:35 pm »
Just to tackle the money problem one last time:

Through much of medieval europe, before the 1800s, Silver was more valuable than gold, so a silver coin was more valuable than a gold coin by about 15:1 on average through the years.

Platinum, while expensive today, was actually used for many years to create false/fake coins as its a metal often found in rocks containing gold and it also alloys with gold.  Which is why it is less valuable than even Gold.  Its also why people used to bite gold and silver coins, because platinum is much harder while gold and silver is softer.

However Platinum never really became a popular metal for coinage because it was more difficult to work with as a harder metal.  Its only in the last century that they've started to use it to create collectable coins.

In Iscariot (not sure about Marvollo exchange rate) the monetary values are roughly:
$1 = 1 Platinum
$10 = 1 Gold
$100 = 1 Silver
$1000 = 1 Electrum

Most fantasy writers generally don't bother going to the old medieval values of silver being more valuable than gold and gold more valuable than platinum because it confuses readers who are accustomed to the modern valuation of silver < gold < platinum (or because they don't know).
CLAN OF THE CATS IS MAKING A COMEBACK! JUNE 8th.  BE THERE!

Hans

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Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
« Reply #153 on: July 23, 2011, 02:00:15 am »
Just to tackle the money problem one last time:

Through much of medieval europe, before the 1800s, Silver was more valuable than gold, so a silver coin was more valuable than a gold coin by about 15:1 on average through the years.
Do you have sources for that?
I only find ones that claim it to have been the other way round.

Edit: There mostly seem to have been either gold or silver coins. Not both at the same time.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2011, 02:05:56 am by Hans »

Shazam

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Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
« Reply #154 on: July 25, 2011, 01:42:58 am »
Just to tackle the money problem one last time:

Through much of medieval europe, before the 1800s, Silver was more valuable than gold, so a silver coin was more valuable than a gold coin by about 15:1 on average through the years.

Platinum, while expensive today, was actually used for many years to create false/fake coins as its a metal often found in rocks containing gold and it also alloys with gold.  Which is why it is less valuable than even Gold.  Its also why people used to bite gold and silver coins, because platinum is much harder while gold and silver is softer.

However Platinum never really became a popular metal for coinage because it was more difficult to work with as a harder metal.  Its only in the last century that they've started to use it to create collectable coins.

In Iscariot (not sure about Marvollo exchange rate) the monetary values are roughly:
$1 = 1 Platinum
$10 = 1 Gold
$100 = 1 Silver
$1000 = 1 Electrum

Most fantasy writers generally don't bother going to the old medieval values of silver being more valuable than gold and gold more valuable than platinum because it confuses readers who are accustomed to the modern valuation of silver < gold < platinum (or because they don't know).

This isn't correct to my understanding.

Here are a small # of references that would refute this:

Peter Spufford's very pertinent book: Money and its use in Medieval Europe

UC Davis Professor's Richard Cowen's essay from one of his classes, Medieval Silver and Gold

Senator John Jones' Treatise - Scroll to bottom to the heading HISTORY OF THE RELATIVE VALUE OF GOLD AND SILVER.

Further, I can't find any medieval period references to platinum. Wikipedia's discusison of the history of platinum puts its European discovery/discussion at 16th century and then it wasn't used as currency:
History of Platinum

In short, I think the above is simply incorrect and inconsistent with accepted historic fact. It can be true in this world, but not the real one. Certainly I can find numerous additional texts which reference a 12-14.5:1 ratio of value of gold to silver depending on the century. I can't find any which show the 10:1 silver to gold ratio you purport.

« Last Edit: July 25, 2011, 01:50:31 am by Shazam »

Azure Priest

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Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
« Reply #155 on: July 25, 2011, 08:03:36 am »
All I can say with certainty concerning this subject is that once upon a time, in the Caribbean, silver miners considered a gray, powdery metal that they found with silver as trash and would throw it away, until someone discovered that when alloyed with Iron, made it far stronger and resistant to rust and the sea, so they made the cannons to guard the silver ships out of this alloy. Only later, did historians learn that these cannons were actually far more valuable than the silver they were guarding because this gray powder is platinum.

Nettlekid

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Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
« Reply #156 on: July 25, 2011, 09:59:52 am »
Actually yeah I'd have to agree, I wouldn't have liked Abigail either. I like all the names that aren't actually names in the real world, but just names made for comics or shows or things. Maytag is a perfect example. Don't know anyone named Crest, or Glyph. Mayweather and Taggert, obviously. Although Bernadette is a real name, it's uncommon enough to still feel unique. And of course, I agree that it's entirely up to the author and what sounds right for them. I just don't like Polly. '~'
By the way, is there a guest artist right now, or is it a different drawing style that's being experimented with?

Kiran

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Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
« Reply #157 on: July 25, 2011, 12:15:44 pm »
I'm too curious if this is an original guest story, or a further comic story done by a guest artist?

Brion Foulke

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Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
« Reply #158 on: July 25, 2011, 08:39:25 pm »
Back from San Diego!  I think it's time to answer a few questions.

Regarding Money: Charles is right.  It's:
$1 = 1 Platinum
$10 = 1 Gold
$100 = 1 Silver
$1000 = 1 Electrum

This is backwards from DND money.  The reason why is not a reference to the fact that silver used to be more valuable (if that is indeed true, I wasn't aware.)  It's just because I like to be different.  And in fact, if I could go back and start Flipside over I'd probably use dollars instead of coins, or perhaps a more original type of money.  It's too cliche to use a DND coin system in a fantasy setting.  But I'm stuck with it now.

Regarding Marvallo's Economy: It is a much more capitalist and laissez-faire type of country than Iscariot.  However, prices tend to be more expensive overall.  This is due to inflation.  This is not what you'd first expect, but there's a reason for why this is, which I won't go into at this time.

Regarding Polly's Name: Yeah, I can see why some people might not be fans of this name.  I just happen to really like the name Polly.  If you don't like it, feel free to keep thinking of her as Blackbird.

Regarding the Guest Strips: I commented on these in several places, but these are written by me.  So you can think of them as being canonical, even if they are guest strips.  There might be a few more next week... not sure if I'm gonna write those yet.

dg86

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Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
« Reply #159 on: July 27, 2011, 02:01:29 am »
Ehhh...well, considering I read another webcomic that was formerly called Blackbird (now called Carciphona), anytime I hear Blackbird, I think of a badass black and red assassin that can't maintain a serious demeanor to save her life, and is completely and utterly awesome.

So, I'll stick with Polly.

Platinum being worthless just because = -_-...


9_6

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Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
« Reply #160 on: July 27, 2011, 03:17:48 am »
Maytag actually looks like a tomboy with much more personality here.

Mr. Foulke... that artist kicks your ass in visually characterizing maytag.
Might be related to her not having a mouth smaller than my nostril =P

Alcapter

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Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
« Reply #161 on: July 27, 2011, 07:53:38 am »
Dear Mr Brion :)

I saw you changed drawing style in last 2 panels. First thought was that it was some king of a guest strip or so. Although they are very nice too I just love the old style.
Of course its only your decision about the drawing style, but I as a reader can share my opinion. If u would ask me I would say go back to previous style - IT KICKS ASS!

P.S. Out of MANY online comics I read, U ARE THE BEST, always remember that :)

Alcapter

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Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
« Reply #162 on: July 27, 2011, 07:58:24 am »
aww, now I checked again, and the last 2 panels arent signed by u, so they are probable a guest srtips :)

Chag4

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Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
« Reply #163 on: July 29, 2011, 03:39:32 am »
(edited to remove spam link -admin)

Spam?
« Last Edit: August 01, 2011, 04:01:29 pm by Brion Foulke »
Just plodding along.

9_6

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Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
« Reply #164 on: July 30, 2011, 04:45:28 am »
No links to scam sites plz. Not even in quote boxes.

Kiran

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Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
« Reply #165 on: August 02, 2011, 09:51:21 am »
Current page scared me as hell when it loaded...
 :'(

Brion Foulke

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Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
« Reply #166 on: August 02, 2011, 10:12:42 am »
There's gonna be guest strips for the rest of the week, the regular comic will start again next week.

9_6

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Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
« Reply #167 on: August 03, 2011, 04:29:44 am »
So is the sexually frustrated honey badger canon now?

ipatrol

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Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
« Reply #168 on: August 03, 2011, 06:36:50 am »
Back from San Diego!  I think it's time to answer a few questions.

Regarding Money: Charles is right.  It's:
$1 = 1 Platinum
$10 = 1 Gold
$100 = 1 Silver
$1000 = 1 Electrum

This is backwards from DND money.  The reason why is not a reference to the fact that silver used to be more valuable (if that is indeed true, I wasn't aware.)  It's just because I like to be different.  And in fact, if I could go back and start Flipside over I'd probably use dollars instead of coins, or perhaps a more original type of money.  It's too cliche to use a DND coin system in a fantasy setting.  But I'm stuck with it now.

Regarding Marvallo's Economy: It is a much more capitalist and laissez-faire type of country than Iscariot.  However, prices tend to be more expensive overall.  This is due to inflation.  This is not what you'd first expect, but there's a reason for why this is, which I won't go into at this time.


I'm no economist, but I can think of a few reasons. Since these are precious metals and not fiat currency, inflation can only be caused by mining. I commented that Flipside resembles a volcanic island, so the prevelance of minerals in the ground could differ signifigantly from the global mean. If Marvallo has a large precious metal reserves and Iscariot restricts the flow of these metals across the border, then a signifigant price differential can form for currency. Also, the apparently reversed values can be the result of an inverted prevelance of accessable ore. If very little of the gold is refractory and the silver veins are too deep, then those factors and the lack of uses for platinum could create that valuation. This is akin to the inversion of prices for rice, and wheat are reversed between East Asia and the West.

Aster Azul

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Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
« Reply #169 on: August 07, 2011, 11:46:41 pm »
I love this arc.  :-*

Highly recommend Demon's Souls, Brion. If you like to die, you'll love Demon's Souls.

SAGG

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Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
« Reply #170 on: August 08, 2011, 11:25:02 am »
Teddy Pendergrass would've been proud: "Turn Out The Lights"...  ;D

Eversist

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Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
« Reply #171 on: August 08, 2011, 02:36:13 pm »
Anyone else seeing this as an opportunity for "Snowpatch" to be tempted, and know what Maytag is going through?

Kiran

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Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
« Reply #172 on: August 08, 2011, 02:53:20 pm »
Well I wouldn't be surprised if Polly tried to make some move now.

After all I don't think Polly knows that Bern is already taken, and as I recall Bern left her gang right after seeing Polly in bed with her previous girlfriend, so maybe now is the time to do some catching up.

vintage

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Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
« Reply #173 on: August 09, 2011, 04:57:26 am »
Either catching up or some move-making would be welcome to me. I couldn't stop imagining some bow-chicka-wow music when Polly got the lights  ;D

I also have some sneaking amusement that Brion's trolling us, and they're going to end up playing Scrabble, lol.

SAGG

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Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
« Reply #174 on: August 09, 2011, 12:14:38 pm »
Yes, Polly, you ARE strange.  ;D Hold up your hands everyone: Who here has an all-black room(s?) in their home? Thought so.  8)

Jety Lefr

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Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
« Reply #175 on: August 10, 2011, 09:05:38 am »
this latest page reminds me of a poem I wrote a long time ago.
"Strive to be better than you've ever been before. Only you can know how much you have, and only you can give yourself more."

SAGG

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Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
« Reply #176 on: August 10, 2011, 01:41:05 pm »
Hm. I never quite thought of light as burning and blinding. Bern. Get. Out. Now.  ;D

L0g0s

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Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
« Reply #177 on: August 11, 2011, 07:45:33 pm »
It burns us my precious!  IT BURNSSS!!!!!   SSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!




Kiran

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Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
« Reply #178 on: August 12, 2011, 05:47:33 am »
Shouldn't Polly interpret Bern last line as an invitation?
 :P

Well I too think much better sitting in dark room without any kind of distractions than under the bright sun with all windows open but still all black interior is a bit too strange for my taste.

vintage

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Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
« Reply #179 on: August 15, 2011, 07:47:46 am »
And so they arrive at Clairen. While Polly's drunk, no less  ;D Wonder what this will lead to. Interesting how Polly says "Your girlfriend Clairen" ...

Polly's teardrop also makes me think. If teardrop tattoos also represent someone's death in the Flipside world, maybe it's for Clairen.