Author Topic: Chapter 36: Discussion  (Read 12980 times)

sunphoenix

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Re: Chapter 36: Discussion
« Reply #30 on: April 01, 2013, 08:48:06 am »
LOLS! Ok.. yeah... that got me..duh! hahahaha! Good one! :)
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein


Kanazaka

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Re: Chapter 36: Discussion
« Reply #31 on: April 01, 2013, 03:10:05 pm »
Great April Fool's strip!

weirdguy

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Re: Chapter 36: Discussion
« Reply #32 on: April 01, 2013, 09:57:50 pm »
the answer to these situations is always more nudity

sunphoenix

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Re: Chapter 36: Discussion
« Reply #33 on: April 02, 2013, 07:08:24 am »
the answer to these situations is always more nudity

...lol. So you think May is a screamer or a sweater? :)
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein


Ryuu

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Re: Chapter 36: Discussion
« Reply #34 on: April 03, 2013, 08:06:31 am »
i missed the April fools page :(

P.S. i freaking LOVE Lehm, soo tempted to cosplay him to next MCM.

Flipside desktops, knock yourself out.
now with more pictures!

Churba

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Re: Chapter 36: Discussion
« Reply #35 on: April 03, 2013, 10:47:06 am »
I don't think we can put much stock in the expectations of the thin man. Unless he's pulling some multi-layer deception, he just threw one of the oldest street con tricks in the book at someone whom he KNOWS is streetwise as anything, and whom he KNOWS can read people like books, and then didn't expect her to figure it out so quickly? Either he's a fuckin' idiot, or he's pulling some deeper shit than usual.

TheCollector

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Re: Chapter 36: Discussion
« Reply #36 on: April 03, 2013, 11:22:49 am »
Ok, so I have a theory on what's going on here, though forgive me if there was something revealed in a previous chapter that negates me theory, I guess I don't remember if there is. But if not, my theory is, what if Lehm, isn't the Thin Man that tortured and changed Bloody Mary and did that thing to Susperia.

I mean yes, Lehm is definitely the real Thin Man, but what if there's an imposter out there? Maybe even someone who once worked with Lehm. I mean, looking at those women with Lehm, I'm guessing they've been improved in some way, but they don't look totally monstrous, or cannibalish like Mary and Susperia.

So, maybe Lehm actually only improves people who want it and does it without torture, but whoever changed Mary and Susperia is just claiming to be the real Thin Man.

And anyway, Lehm has brought Maytag here, because he feels that whoever this person is, unless he knows who it is, is in his eyes, ruining his reputation, and took Maytag as the only way he could ask for her help in stopping this imposter.

I mean who knows, in a few pages we might find out I'm completely wrong, but this is just what I feel is going to happen at the moment.

Gillsing

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Re: Chapter 36: Discussion
« Reply #37 on: April 03, 2013, 12:47:54 pm »
Seems plausible enough. But it could also be that only the 'failures' get sent away. Or that only the failures get noticed by others, while the young women who end up well-adjusted to society simply keep their mouths shut and go on living happy lives, either working for Lehm or working for themselves. Given that the Thin Man has a reputation for creating monsters, it's easy to see why any given woman might not want it known that she's in any way associated with him.

Right now I'm leaning towards the scam setup being a way to flatter Maytag into thinking she's really, really special to have figured it out so quickly. Help them with that thing, Maytag! You're their only hope!

Ryuu

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Re: Chapter 36: Discussion
« Reply #38 on: April 04, 2013, 12:56:53 am »
I think perhaps he wanted to know exactly how good May was, as he said, he expected her to work out, just not quite so quickly.

Flipside desktops, knock yourself out.
now with more pictures!

sunphoenix

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Re: Chapter 36: Discussion
« Reply #39 on: April 04, 2013, 05:56:10 am »
I think perhaps he wanted to know exactly how good May was, as he said, he expected her to work out, just not quite so quickly.

Yeah I think so too.  Perhaps he just truly underestimated her.  I mean its one thing to hear about someone... consider she is not a mage or a kick-ass knight word of mouth says she's a gambler and a entertainer.  But reputation says she has been pivotal in the defeat of some pretty powerful foes.. but no one was present to actually "See" those defeats... at least not a large crowd to actually witness her skills.  So its just as likely 'Thin Man' was not entirely sure how 'actually' capable she was and how much was inevitable hype and hearsay!
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein


weirdguy

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Re: Chapter 36: Discussion
« Reply #40 on: April 04, 2013, 12:24:26 pm »
Ok, so I have a theory on what's going on here, though forgive me if there was something revealed in a previous chapter that negates me theory, I guess I don't remember if there is. But if not, my theory is, what if Lehm, isn't the Thin Man that tortured and changed Bloody Mary and did that thing to Susperia.

I mean yes, Lehm is definitely the real Thin Man, but what if there's an imposter out there? Maybe even someone who once worked with Lehm. I mean, looking at those women with Lehm, I'm guessing they've been improved in some way, but they don't look totally monstrous, or cannibalish like Mary and Susperia.

So, maybe Lehm actually only improves people who want it and does it without torture, but whoever changed Mary and Susperia is just claiming to be the real Thin Man.

And anyway, Lehm has brought Maytag here, because he feels that whoever this person is, unless he knows who it is, is in his eyes, ruining his reputation, and took Maytag as the only way he could ask for her help in stopping this imposter.

I mean who knows, in a few pages we might find out I'm completely wrong, but this is just what I feel is going to happen at the moment.
so, you think there's two melters running around, or something?

edit note thing: i'd just like to note about spec ops

all of the things you didn't like were done on purpose

you didn't get far enough into the game to realize what's going on yet

which given the current tack of the story is somewhat ironic

however, putting the game down and not playing it is, by the developer's words, a legitimate way to play the game
« Last Edit: April 09, 2013, 12:56:52 am by weirdguy »

sunphoenix

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Re: Chapter 36: Discussion
« Reply #41 on: April 10, 2013, 02:43:22 pm »
Yeah... haha... that's Maytag... I don't think she could put anymore sarcasm into that "...so you do NOTHING to trick people...", comment!  lol.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2013, 02:45:28 pm by sunphoenix »
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein


weirdguy

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Re: Chapter 36: Discussion
« Reply #42 on: April 10, 2013, 09:47:15 pm »
no don't go before having dinner

it will get cold

also it's likely that what he's got to show her will kill her appetite

Kiran

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Re: Chapter 36: Discussion
« Reply #43 on: April 11, 2013, 01:12:19 am »
Finally, I wonder how he will explain Mary change compared to what we saw happening from Mary's memories...

sunphoenix

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Re: Chapter 36: Discussion
« Reply #44 on: April 11, 2013, 05:25:34 am »
Uhm... "Shudder"...  This could get messy.
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein


tbeean

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Re: Chapter 36: Discussion
« Reply #45 on: April 11, 2013, 01:23:57 pm »
I'm hoping for some kind of Mary flashback story though, I do miss her.
Seeing more of her change process would be interesting, can't wait to hear Thin Man's explanation though.

weirdguy

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Re: Chapter 36: Discussion
« Reply #46 on: April 12, 2013, 12:43:27 am »
wow, sopa sure did a number on that room

sunphoenix

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Re: Chapter 36: Discussion
« Reply #47 on: April 12, 2013, 06:16:22 am »
Oh great... a hall Rorschach tests.. that would drive me insane...

Unless they are paper thin slices of Mary's brain left on display...!  On second thought.. I'd go for the Rorschach gallery... {pick your poisons... and insanities wisely!}
« Last Edit: April 12, 2013, 06:18:48 am by sunphoenix »
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein


Shay

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Re: Chapter 36: Discussion
« Reply #48 on: April 17, 2013, 09:48:40 am »
I have to say, I'm really liking how this is going. It's been awhile since I've been really looking forward to what the next page holds, and this arc is really interesting.

Shay

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Re: Chapter 36: Discussion
« Reply #49 on: April 22, 2013, 02:51:33 pm »
So then, what he's saying is...  if the experiment is unsuccessful, the Thin Man releases them right back where they came from? He doesn't try to undo the experiment, or at least minimize the body horror he's done?
And if none of that is available, if he's created a monster that can never be undone... he doesn't kill them? I feel like leaving them to run free, kill some people, and eventually be destroyed by the Phalanx is a bad alternative to just euthanizing them himself.

maddhopps

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Re: Chapter 36: Discussion
« Reply #50 on: April 24, 2013, 03:23:59 pm »
Didn't Melter tell Mary that the experiment on her was a success? I don't remember exactly, but I'm fairly certain I remember her telling Maytag that.

I'm also still wondering why her powers needed to be powered my the consumption of human flesh. That seemed like something that was planned to be part of the experiment.

sunphoenix

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Re: Chapter 36: Discussion
« Reply #51 on: April 25, 2013, 06:04:33 am »
Well a girl's gotta eat!  She just wasn't picky about if it were previously sentient or currently dead...

But I'd still do 'em - both Maytag and Mary.. the perfect tag team! LOL!
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein


Shazam

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Re: Chapter 36: Discussion
« Reply #52 on: April 25, 2013, 09:19:48 am »
I'm not really getting this either.

1. We're experimenting to perfect this avenue of magic
2. Everyone volunteers because we offer them the changes they want after getting them to trust us
3. Even when we fail, we put people back out there to commit horrible crimes as superpowered monstrosities. Things that would horrify them to do. In Mary's example, we didn't tell her what her issues were or offer to send her somewhere with fewer people, we just put her back with her family to eat them with no warning, setting off a whole horrible chain.
4. We've already made clear we'll hold thing back and try and manipulate people in order to get them to volunteer. We just want people willing, we're not actually trying to protect them or look out for their interests.
5. We used magic to figure out Mary was a good target and how to approach her to get her willing.
6. We probably used this painting oracle magic to find out May is a good target and how to approach her to get her willing too.
7. May our clever cynic and manipulator of people's reactions somehow reads into this 'they're trying to be truthful'.

It's good in a way that May isn't just outsmarting people. Bryon has clearly listened to critiques about her super banter and body language powers. But mostly it just seems impossible that anyone who has now seen the repercussions of the Thin Man's experiments, whose been abducted, etc.... would in any way trust him period. Especially knowing he uses his powers to figure out how to pick targets and best appeal to them to get their willing participation.

sunphoenix

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Re: Chapter 36: Discussion
« Reply #53 on: April 26, 2013, 08:22:02 am »
Whao.. hold on there a little ...'Earth's Mightiest Mortal'! :)

3. No one has said 'when' a subject fails if they can possibly know about that until they are ...out in the world and make choices of what to do with their powers.  It could be just as true that Mary worked for a time but something happened or she found out what she wanted was not what she NEEDED... and became despondent and that is what turned her in her grief into what she became the "gift" might not have done anything to her that she did not expect... but it still might not have brought her the happiness she sought.  Oft times what people think is best for them and what they think the need are only wants and not truly ... necessarily what they ACTUALLY need!

Also, his bargain is to give them power... he did not say, "you can only use it in a way I Deem appropriate..", no one would accept power on those terms as they would effectively be agreeing to be his slave.  Thin Man has to let them do as they will with it.  It IS THEIR choice to use... or sadly ABUSE what he gives them.  He could say otherwise and no one would accept power under those terms. 

He IS in a 'hands-off' sort of way being true to the morality of the situation.

Ultimately PEOPLE are responsible for their OWN actions... to think or do otherwise is a cop-out... to avoid the responsibility or deny the consequences of one's deeds.

4. Just exactly what do you mean by this?  The Thin man told Mary exactly what he was going to do to her and what it would do for her {as far as he knew perhaps}... and that he had determined though magic that this would be the best way to fulfill her ...'wants'.  Her Aberrant behavior after the process is not necessarily his fault or even the result of what he did to her.  He has also shown the same things to Maytag so she knows he uses magic to find suitable subjects. 

Though I'm sure May will get around to asking just what he wants to do to her... but I think the more important question is WHY he desires to 'augment' people in the first place?  Pure research or does he have some actual goal in mind?

5. And your point being what?  That when you are looking for someone say to... try a new prosthetic limb design on, you don't search for a suitable subject first?  That is just an example.. but my point being he is not trying to universally use a magical augmentation on someone not 'suitable' to the enhancement... that would be irresponsible and cruel.  But the Thin Man has never claimed to know all... and surely with the power that he can apparently bestow... some people do not adjust to it well!  Sort of like the sometimes referenced "Cyber-Psychosis" from the Cyberpunk Genre... but in this case its from too much magic altering ones body and mind so one has difficulty relating and perhaps even interacting with those not similarly augmented... loosing one's humanity.. and effectively their mind with it!

6. Certainly in fact his showing her this implies he did so.. he's not trying to hide this fact at all.  He's just not come out and said so yet... as May has not asked.

7.  Well - in fact they are.  but likely even the Thin Man cannot know the unintentional side effects of a experiment.  He may know what it is supposed to do.. just not ALL that it will do to a subject.

..at least  THAT is how I see it.  but I have no monopoly on wisdom.. lol! :)
« Last Edit: April 26, 2013, 08:28:45 am by sunphoenix »
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein


Shay

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Re: Chapter 36: Discussion
« Reply #54 on: April 26, 2013, 11:16:22 am »
Well... we know that he is telling the truth, as far as he knows at least, because otherwise May would be able to tell he was lying. But I still think it's a little impossible that he's actually a good guy, just giving out power for the benefit of the helpless people, just misunderstood by the world.
At the very least, no one is that altruistic. And no one is that purely good. (At least not in this comic)

I think the weirdness is that we've seen two experiments, gone very differently.
Clairen, who was happy with the outcome, remembered asking for it, and in general is good evidence for what the Thin Man is saying now.
And Mary, who remembers nothing, and seems to have been forced to become a monster. She is evidence of the 'madman experimenter' story that the Phalanx/Conclave have been telling.

There's evidence for both, but both can't be true.


maddhopps

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Re: Chapter 36: Discussion
« Reply #55 on: April 26, 2013, 11:36:07 am »
Even if cannibalism being the source of her regenerative powers was an unintended side effect, programming her with blood lust was seemingly done after the fact and without her knowing. Mary didn't kill her parents because she choose to. She killed them because she was giving an ability that would cause murderous insanity when starved, and then got sent home starved.

Maytag has been susceptible to other manipulators in the past, so it'll be interesting watching this all play out.

sunphoenix

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Re: Chapter 36: Discussion
« Reply #56 on: April 26, 2013, 11:56:14 am »
Well... we know that he is telling the truth, as far as he knows at least, because otherwise May would be able to tell he was lying. But I still think it's a little impossible that he's actually a good guy, just giving out power for the benefit of the helpless people, just misunderstood by the world.
At the very least, no one is that altruistic. And no one is that purely good. (At least not in this comic)

Oh I doubt too that its entirely altruistic.. but we don't actually have any proof that it is sinister purpose either.  I'm sure he gets the satisfaction of the knowlegde of what works and what doesn't work so he can further refine his magic and magical lore.

I think the weirdness is that we've seen two experiments, gone very differently.
Clairen, who was happy with the outcome, remembered asking for it, and in general is good evidence for what the Thin Man is saying now.
And Mary, who remembers nothing, and seems to have been forced to become a monster. She is evidence of the 'madman experimenter' story that the Phalanx/Conclave have been telling.

There's evidence for both, but both can't be true.

True.  But Doctor Frankenstein by Marry Shelly was a Brilliant Genius not understood for his interests in reviving the once live now dead and in his mania to do that he created his 'Adam'  but his failings as a father and creator were his personal failings not that he dared to try!  We do not know WHAT Mary was 'forced' to do or what she decided to do on her own.. at least I don't think we do. 

You have an emotional breakdown and see how clear your memories and recollections of what you did and why you did it were when you were in the middle throes of your episode of lost sanity.  Just something to consider ... she may have recovered from whatever happened and figured with self-guilt ridden shame she had no choice but to stay the monster she had become...

We just don't really know.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2013, 12:04:03 pm by sunphoenix »
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein


sunphoenix

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Re: Chapter 36: Discussion
« Reply #57 on: April 26, 2013, 12:01:15 pm »
Even if cannibalism being the source of her regenerative powers was an unintended side effect, programming her with blood lust was seemingly done after the fact and without her knowing.

Do we KNOW that or is that an assumption?

Mary didn't kill her parents because she choose to. She killed them because she was giving an ability that would cause murderous insanity when starved, and then got sent home starved.

Again do we KNOW this or is this conjecture?  Was this stated as the reason and by whom?  Mary?  Who arguably is in a ...Very Questionable mental state in the first place.

I'm not saying your wrong only that I don't recall anyone really giving any explanation for why Mary was the way she was with any definitive proof or evidence other than conjecture that she was the failed experiment of the Thin Man.  No one has stated or explained {at least as far as I can recall... correct me if there has been}... WHY Mary went all "eat everyone to power my regenerative powers" ... we don't even know {if I recall} if that is the truth - that she even needed to eat people to power her regeneration.  She may have only THOUGHT she needed to eat sentient beings to power her regeneration.. how sad it would be if she was just demented and delusional!
« Last Edit: April 26, 2013, 12:07:24 pm by sunphoenix »
"...no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free.  No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything - you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him." - Robert A. Heinlein


maddhopps

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Re: Chapter 36: Discussion
« Reply #58 on: April 26, 2013, 12:36:53 pm »
Note that I used seemingly and not certainly, but based on this page, Blood Lust looks like it was added to make sure she keeps herself alive. Also remember Mary says outright her body moves automatically when the pain and hunger becomes too much.

Shay

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Re: Chapter 36: Discussion
« Reply #59 on: April 26, 2013, 12:46:28 pm »
we don't even know {if I recall} if that is the truth - that she even needed to eat people to power her regeneration.  She may have only THOUGHT she needed to eat sentient beings to power her regeneration.. how sad it would be if she was just demented and delusional!

We know it because Melter told her, and Melter is definitely real and working for the Thin Man because he captured Maytag.
Also, in the Bloody Mary Side Story, Mary tried eating normal food and got sick because of it. So, what Melter said was true.