Author Topic: Chapter 35: Discussion  (Read 17362 times)

Brion Foulke

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Chapter 35: Discussion
« on: November 12, 2012, 03:12:19 pm »
Oops, sorry for putting this up late.  I thought I put it up already, but I guess not.

This is the thread for discussing Chapter 35: Personal Responsibility.  Bernadette's dad Grant isn't doing so well... and Bernadette is the only one who can save him!  But will she be able to?  Oh, the drama!

Azure Priest

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Re: Chapter 35: Discussion
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2012, 05:19:53 am »
Apparently nobody there ever heard of the term "Good will." It IS actually an intangible asset in any business. If you provide a service like simply giving directions for free, then there's a higher chance that the person to whom you provide that service will buy your goods than the goods provided by the bloke down the street. For those not familiar with the concept, it's a central part of the plot in "Miracle on 34th street," the original B&W version.

L0g0s

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Re: Chapter 35: Discussion
« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2012, 05:33:00 pm »
STAB THEM BERNADETTE!  DO IT! DO IT!

She should offer them their continued living as payment.  But then, if I remember correctly, isn't anything SHORT of violence okay down in the southern continent where she's at?   

Brion Foulke

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Re: Chapter 35: Discussion
« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2012, 09:42:09 pm »
Technically the law is against force.  Threat of violence counts as force.

Kiran

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Re: Chapter 35: Discussion
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2012, 12:38:49 am »
Finally made catching up and that's some one hell of depressive story point going currently...

May got kidnapped to be changed into sorceress(maybe that's a positive), while poor Bern as always has the worse side of coin...
Dying father, no money, most of people around being materialistic jerks...
I don't see much of choices for her here, either try to join the same group Polly did to earn money in kinda lawful way, but that I suppose would take too long, and I don't see any other job for a bodyguard here to do; then try to rob people or as worst whore herself out for the quick money, but both will seriously conflict with her living code...

If Polly suddenly won't show up, then Bern is done for.

Azure Priest

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Re: Chapter 35: Discussion
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2012, 05:04:04 am »
Bern's father, two words, "lost cause."

Maytag. One word "Monster." The "Thin Man" doesn't make sorcerers/sorceresses. That particular group of people make MONSTERS. They take a beautiful young woman, experiment on her (consent is optional) and then let her loose on her friends and family just to see what would happen.

No way that's going to end well for Maytag.

Shay

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Re: Chapter 35: Discussion
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2012, 12:28:13 pm »
I really hope no one comes to 'save' Bern from this situation. I want to see what she does, simply because I think finding a way to get 800 gold in 15 minutes while still abiding by her moral code would be really, really difficult. If she sticks to her moral code, her father dies. But if she loses her moral code for money... that might be even worse.

Tyris

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Re: Chapter 35: Discussion
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2012, 02:00:11 pm »
We can't really see how she'd make 800 gold in 15 minutes even by abandoning her moral code.
You can't look dignified when you're having fun.

Shay

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Re: Chapter 35: Discussion
« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2012, 03:24:08 pm »
Yet somehow, I bet Maytag could do it.

L0g0s

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Re: Chapter 35: Discussion
« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2012, 03:05:28 am »
Okay, she just needs to start smacking in some heads then.  It's an elegantly simple solution for many of life's problems. 

Azure Priest

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Re: Chapter 35: Discussion
« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2012, 06:16:15 am »
Okay, she just needs to start smacking in some heads then.  It's an elegantly simple solution for many of life's problems.
Not going to work. That's the ONE rule in this little country. NO FORCE, no violence, no threat of violence, no breaking down doors, no smashing open locked chests, none of it. Doesn't seem to exempt pickpocketry, but Bren doesn't have any skill in that, and she's certainly not good at cards, and it seems Flipside has already wholly embraced socialized medicine. You think it's expensive now? Wait until it's "free."

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Re: Chapter 35: Discussion
« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2012, 07:42:53 am »
Blackbird will give her the monies in exchange for boobs.

Brion Foulke

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Re: Chapter 35: Discussion
« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2012, 03:59:52 pm »
Not going to work. That's the ONE rule in this little country. NO FORCE, no violence, no threat of violence, no breaking down doors, no smashing open locked chests, none of it. Doesn't seem to exempt pickpocketry, but Bren doesn't have any skill in that, and she's certainly not good at cards, and it seems Flipside has already wholly embraced socialized medicine. You think it's expensive now? Wait until it's "free."

Marvallo has the exact opposite of socialized medicine.  They have no insurance whatsoever, you pay all your own costs upfront and you don't have to pay a dime for anyone else.  It's more like capitalism medicine in it's purist form.

And I'm going to expand on how Marvallo's law works in a future intermission, but the law against "force" actually does make all forms of theft illegal, because that's considered a type of force.  It also includes contract enforcement, and some types of fraud.  They have a somewhat loose definition of "force" because all of those things are basically necessary for any society to function.

L0g0s

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Re: Chapter 35: Discussion
« Reply #13 on: November 21, 2012, 06:03:06 pm »
Just because something is illegal, doesn't mean it wouldn't work.  She'd just get into trouble for it afterwards.  :P
The Mafia seems to still be working alright after all.

Though I don't resort to it myself all that much, there is a simple rule in life.
 

Bernadette is a super law abiding type, I admit, but let's face it.  With a long lost father in the offering, I could totally se her going all badass on someone.  HOWEVER, I think Brion will come up with a less... overly simplistic approach than mine.  ( I have been known to utilize sledge hammers to work on... almost anything)

A political piece I once read basically outlined that all laws came down to property laws, and that the one true crime was theft.  Murder = Theft of life, Etc. etc. etc.

Kiran

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Re: Chapter 35: Discussion
« Reply #14 on: November 22, 2012, 01:45:17 am »
Limiting the time to 15 minutes for getting the money seriously limits what Bern can do.
Polly is away for a day so that route of help is locked, May won't answer her so that's gone too.
So Bern did the most obvious thing and gone to talk with one person who talked to her without asking for money and rather as a favour to Polly who he knows.

As for possibilitis how she can get 800 golds in now maybe 10-12 min left?
The most logical answer is to loan it from someone and sign some form of contract.
If this city is all about being materialistic and the money and compensating first for all kind of services with it, then for sure there are people who loan them.

What Bern can do?
Fight/bodyguard or use her body as a woman, and nothing else.
I'm for sure signing Bern off from any kind of gamble/thief/bard/con artist but also a killer for hire action.

So a possibility as signing as Enforcer for a contract for some time and getting money upfront for doing that may be some outcome.

Also since the whole city is set in no force/violence policy aside of Enforcers, then I would be pretty sure that there are some illegal fights going somewhere so people could vent off the rules and earn money on betting and such. Maybe Bern could sign a contract to fight in them... That's second possibility in my mind, but of course it would be illegal, and while doing it Bern would break her moral code.

The other is that for sure there are some kind of brothels or strip clubs where Bern could work for signing some shady contract for quick money upfront, but that I think even more would break Bern moral and ethic and especially her personal code on much higher level than just being a fighting thug.

And the last thing is which maybe the easiest outcome, is to simply sell her second magical sword in some pawn shop, and for that save her father(if selling the first sword gave her father a big sume of money for booze and whores then for sure it may be worth of something), but then she would have to stay here for a while to earn money to buy it back, and then also there's the second weapon...
I suppose this method would be the least wrong of what she would have to do.
But since Bern is outsider then she can be cheated by people pretty easily.

And if I recall right there's also Moss and Fata combo travelling, who could help Bern with their fake money illusions if met.

I can't wait to see what route author will choose here.

Edit:
Seeing newest update with money=life in this city...
I wonder how this works in the terms of loans, it's obvious now that Bern need an enormous amount of money which normal people won't be able to lend her, like this guy having just around 100 gold max...
So I would bet this will go into the loan shady business, maybe around 10 min left and Bern will need to spend her last money on random people to get directions to get to such place.

I'm kinda surprised that Bern didn't think about selling her sword as alternative like her father did to get money.

I would bet that such loan people would evaluate Bern how worth her life is in money and then she will have to sign some contract, if let's say Bern life is worth of 400 gold pieces for them for a year, then Bern would be owned by them for 2 years to pay of the taken debt. But for sure her desperation and time limit will push her to do something stupid which later Polly won't be able to solve out, and the guy's words will come true.

Also Brion you ever thought about activating comments under the comic pages like most webcomics have?
Comic discussions here are pretty dead compared to the past activity :-\
« Last Edit: November 26, 2012, 11:56:25 pm by Kiran »

Flipthecannon

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Re: Chapter 35: Discussion
« Reply #15 on: November 29, 2012, 08:24:26 am »
I think I know where this is going with her offering her sword as collateral (a one of a kind sword even one that doesn't work right is probably worth a good bit).  Probably the woman saves him.  He's still ungrateful to her but to top it off even when she does get the 800 gold the healer decides the sword is more valuable and decides to keep it unless she can meet the new price the healer wants for the sword.  The other option is that she beats up the guards and threatens the woman but that seems like a major breach of Bernadette's ethics.  I'm not sure she would go that far just to save her father.  Also...I have to wonder what's happening with Maytag.

Brion Foulke

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Re: Chapter 35: Discussion
« Reply #16 on: November 30, 2012, 12:13:47 am »
Also Brion you ever thought about activating comments under the comic pages like most webcomics have?
Comic discussions here are pretty dead compared to the past activity :-\

I have thought about it, but that would have to come after the redesign of the website.  Which hopefully I can get around to soon.

Azure Priest

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Re: Chapter 35: Discussion
« Reply #17 on: November 30, 2012, 06:26:01 am »
Oh, wow! The WORST possible form of anarcho-capitalism on display here. Not only did the healer break her word "You have 15 minutes" but she's actually using armed men to physically remove a customer WILLING TO PAY from the premises.

As for selling the sword? Bern has to find a buyer willing and able to pay 800 gold for it, and so far, none have been forthcoming.

As we've also seen, using ANYTHING as collateral is not going to work for Mr or Miss "healer" here. It wants cash up front. Makes one wonder if the healing is actually any good of if the healer is merely a quack.

Flipthecannon

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Re: Chapter 35: Discussion
« Reply #18 on: November 30, 2012, 07:18:13 am »
@Azure's priest: You can't really say that without doubt as nothing has been offered as collateral up front.  She's not willing to take Bern's word as that has no value to it.  The sword has value. She might be willing to accept that.  I think the bigger dilemma would be getting it back from her at the set price.

Shay

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Re: Chapter 35: Discussion
« Reply #19 on: November 30, 2012, 11:50:40 am »
I have no idea if Bern would view it this way but...

Refusal to help someone who's dying can be considered 'murder' in a way. So, threatening the healer with violence in order to stop her from 'murdering' her father by letting him die... that might just be okay in Bern's eyes.

Tyris

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Re: Chapter 35: Discussion
« Reply #20 on: November 30, 2012, 01:40:28 pm »
Dude just pointed a sword at her. That's a threat of violence... right?

Paper-thin justification! BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!
You can't look dignified when you're having fun.

Kiran

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Re: Chapter 35: Discussion
« Reply #21 on: December 01, 2012, 12:21:43 am »
I have no idea if Bern would view it this way but...

Refusal to help someone who's dying can be considered 'murder' in a way. So, threatening the healer with violence in order to stop her from 'murdering' her father by letting him die... that might just be okay in Bern's eyes.
In a way it is, and I think that Bern now could snap and make her own version of justice against the healer, injure the guards and then force the healer with a sword against her throat to do the deed, but that at the same time would mean she broke this place only law, her own code too, and could become a wanted criminal with a personal responsibility to take care off...
That's one of the directions.
I'll admit I didn't expect the healer to make such move, she in a way is forcing Bern to act and cornering her, may it be just a form of extreme negotiatons?
She knew right away that Bern didn't have money and that she couldn't get it in the time so why she even agreed to keep the old guy?
Also as totally crazy prediction, maybe Bern could try to robe Polly house for the money out of desperation?

IronSoul

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Re: Chapter 35: Discussion
« Reply #22 on: December 02, 2012, 12:35:27 pm »
I'm not gonna lie, I can't wait for this arc to end. I'm not a big fan of Grant as a character and Bern shackling herself to him, even as her father, is wearing thin on me.

L0g0s

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Re: Chapter 35: Discussion
« Reply #23 on: December 02, 2012, 03:51:48 pm »
Once again I say, if violence isn't solving your problem, you're just not using enough of it.   DO IT BERN! DO IT!


I can't help egging people on.

Tyris

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Re: Chapter 35: Discussion
« Reply #24 on: December 03, 2012, 01:43:37 pm »
Bern just caught a sword with her cloth-gloved hand. Could this whole page just be a fantasy cutaway sequence of hers?
You can't look dignified when you're having fun.

Brion Foulke

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Re: Chapter 35: Discussion
« Reply #25 on: December 03, 2012, 08:33:56 pm »
Bern just caught a sword with her cloth-gloved hand. Could this whole page just be a fantasy cutaway sequence of hers?

It wasn't moving when she grabbed it.  And if you look carefully you can see a little blood when she kicks away the guard.

Kiran

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Re: Chapter 35: Discussion
« Reply #26 on: December 04, 2012, 12:59:16 am »
I'm not gonna lie, I can't wait for this arc to end. I'm not a big fan of Grant as a character and Bern shackling herself to him, even as her father, is wearing thin on me.
I think there's no single person, Bern included, who likes Grant current character...
But I think that Bern would do the same not only for Grant but to a total stranger which she would stumble upon dying on the street where no one else would try to help him/her.
That's her own moral code, which seems to overwrite the law codes of this materialistic country.
I like seeing that Bern decided on the drastic kind of action.

MaronaPossessed

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Re: Chapter 35: Discussion
« Reply #27 on: December 05, 2012, 06:08:30 am »
Today's page is...a repeat? :'( :-\

dg86

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Re: Chapter 35: Discussion
« Reply #28 on: December 05, 2012, 09:40:35 am »
^ This.  Is something wrong with the updating?

Gillsing

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Re: Chapter 35: Discussion
« Reply #29 on: December 05, 2012, 11:09:47 pm »
I guess it's a typo in the image link, showing Chapter 34 Page 19 instead of Chapter 35 page 19.