Author Topic: Should I feel bad for thinking Crest is the most interesting?  (Read 6515 times)

LillySatou

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Should I feel bad for thinking Crest is the most interesting?
« on: February 09, 2011, 08:44:29 pm »
To be perfectly honest, I can't stand Maytag and Bren is almost equally unbearable.


Maybe it's something to do with Crest's personality or that he's so easy to connect with to a lot of people, but I rather enjoy when he gets some face time and we're able to see his character development.


I dunno. Maybe it's just me. I definitely wouldn't mind seeing Crest get his own separate comic from Flipside with the story being driven around him rather than just being there with Maytag.

Anyone else feel this way or am I just a weirdo? :<

Ryuu

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Re: Should I feel bad for thinking Crest is the most interesting?
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2011, 09:07:48 pm »
i agree with you so far as you say that crest is the easiest to project onto, however, i love may and bern's characters, and dobt the comic would be the same without them.
i think that despite being so easy to project onto, i just don't think crest is a strong enough character to carry a comic on his own, for the comic to have any reel impact it would have to pick up more characters, and they would probably end up being similar to may & bern.

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Brion Foulke

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Re: Should I feel bad for thinking Crest is the most interesting?
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2011, 03:53:11 am »
Well, there must be something about this comic that really grabs you if you are reading it and you don't like either main characters!

Don't worry, Crest will get more face time.  He will have his own subplot throughout the next couple of chapters.  However, I'd be lying if I said his face time will be equal to Bern or May.

LillySatou

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Re: Should I feel bad for thinking Crest is the most interesting?
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2011, 11:36:40 pm »
Interesting. I honestly didn't expect to get the man himself to respond. I think I might have came off as that I didn't bother reading any plots between Bren and Maytag. Far from it, it's just that I didn't enjoy them as much as when the story was focused around Crest, and that's what got me hooked when I first started reading. I think the art style itself is captivating enough. It has this sort of western overtone mixed with eastern style art woven into one unique style that I really haven't seen in many web comics.


As for the reason I dislike Maytag and Bren? I don't know, maybe it's because the foundation of Flipside itself seems to be centered around their relationship is why it hasn't garnered any interest from me, but there are a lot of different things going on separate from that that keep me reading.

In any case, I'm looking forward to seeing how this will all develop soon. Keep up with the solid work. (bo_o)b


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Re: Should I feel bad for thinking Crest is the most interesting?
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2011, 05:00:06 am »
Interesting. I honestly didn't expect to get the man himself to respond.
You get used to it - Brion is one of the Comic artists who is closest to his readers. The only two I've seen who were or are closer, was Chris Cracknell, AKA, Ghastly of Ghastly's Ghastly comic, and Scott and Rym of the Geeknights podcast.

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Re: Should I feel bad for thinking Crest is the most interesting?
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2011, 07:48:38 pm »
Interesting. I honestly didn't expect to get the man himself to respond.
You get used to it - Brion is one of the Comic artists who is closest to his readers. The only two I've seen who were or are closer, was Chris Cracknell, AKA, Ghastly of Ghastly's Ghastly comic, and Scott and Rym of the Geeknights podcast.
tim who writes cad seems to be pretty close to the readers (i never felt the urge to sign up to (or even look at) the forums for cad though) but then again, he doesn't have a phone number on the website, so Brion wins there

also, i think May and Bern's relationship is nice, and it's so rare to see a positive lesbian relationship in the spotlight anywhere in fiction (or atleast i have come across only one other example that i can think of)

ok, i'll admit i like may+bern cause i'm a bit of a closet romantic, but still

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Re: Should I feel bad for thinking Crest is the most interesting?
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2011, 03:35:47 pm »
Well, there must be something about this comic that really grabs you if you are reading it and you don't like either main characters!

I follow plenty of shows and comics just because I want to know where the plot is going, or I like the art, or just because I love the side characters! I know I'm definitely not alone. It doesn't happen all the time, but depending on the show I get tired of the main characters quickly.

Bernadette used to be my favorite character, but now I do agree and think Crest is the most interesting as well at the moment. The story is very heavily focused on Maytag and she is my least favorite character, but I still follow the story as I really like all the side characters a lot (with the exception of Regina), and because the art is wonderful.

Robochocobo

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 I agree with the original poster.  I've been reading Flipside a long time, and I've enjoyed it but....

I honestly I liked Flipside better when Crest was the central character in those introductory chapters.  He gave the narrative focus.  He was a young and inexperienced character who was a good figure for the reader to relate to, as Crest is just as unfamiliar with the magic and cultures of Flipside as the readership is.  He's a foil to characters like Maytag and Bern who have already had a lively set of adventures and experiences before the narrative officially "began".  The sense of backstory and history that Maytag and Bern carry with them gives them depth as characters, but it also puts them at a distance to an audience who are entirely unfamiliar with the world around them.  Maytag and Bern's references and discussions don't make as much sense upon first glance and require extra time to explain and provide context for.  This context is usually provided or supplemented with the intermission/ explanation pages where things like magical items are explained.  This process however slows down the story because of the inability to introduce and explain those things within the context of the actual narrative.  Due to the protagonist bait-and-switch that occurred, the story lost out on a lot of good opportunities for May or Bern, or other characters to introduce things to Crest in a more natural fashion.  We're seeing a little of this in the way that the Soundstones were introduced so I'm sort of pleased our Author overlord has begun to refine his storytelling.  But I digress that there are still more problems caused by the change in focus...

Another side effect of the protagonist bait-and-switch that occurred is the way Crest has been repeatedly sidelined throughout the story in order to give more time to developing Maytag and Bern.  To hit upon a relatively recent example, was Crest's side adventure during the Ch. 21-25 arc really that important?  Most of what he and Suspiria accomplished on the staircase didn't actually amount to that much, and most of it was regurgitated in some form or another during Moss and Maytag's conversations.  He has mostly served as a wall flower ever since chapter 11 with only a few moments to stand out or make real contributions to the story.  I can't help but feel that it was a tad cheap to play with the reader's assumptions on who the central protagonist is.  It's sort of like if you spent the first 20 minutes of Star Wars watching Luke Skywalker, only for Obi-Wan or Han Solo to totally upstage him and become the focus of the story.

Maytag and Bern have been giving a sizable amount of development, however at times it feels a little misused.  Just how many pages of May and Bern reaffirming their love/ insecurities do we really need?  Those kinds of informal scenes are great ways to make them seem more human as characters, but there is a ceiling on how much repetition one can take before it begins to become boring and predictable.  A sense of logical progression is good, but predictable is bad.  Even Maytag is getting a little by the numbers with her "Put into a tough spot, reply with a shocking or novel answer/ action".  The problem is that as readers we've seen her do this at least a dozen times or more and so it is no longer all that surprising, shocking or novel.

All of the above aside, let me restate that I've enjoyed the comic and have read it for many years now.  I love the art, I love the supporting cast (though they really do need more development), and I love the sense of depth and history that the world and the story seems to convey.  It reminds me a lot of old manga like Berserk or Bastard!.  Occasionally my interest drops off due to the slow pace, yet I always remember Flipside and come back it.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2011, 01:28:54 am by Robochocobo »

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Re: Should I feel bad for thinking Crest is the most interesting?
« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2011, 11:29:51 am »
@Robochocobo: ... Why is it that I want to idolize you so much? I mean... you have said it more clear than I could ever have. I know that may sound awkward, but still. I feel like I wanna cry! (Okay, a little too awkward... :P)

Far from it, it's just that I didn't enjoy them as much as when the story was focused around Crest, and that's what got me hooked when I first started reading.

Can I say "join the club"?
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Re: Should I feel bad for thinking Crest is the most interesting?
« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2011, 04:32:58 pm »
I can see what you mean about the introduction of new technology/magic and stuff. In the early chapters we were following Crest's discoveries.  So if Crest discovered it then we discovered it and he would question things further to get the deeper understanding for the reader.  Crest was almost the Reader's private detective, on the hunt for the background answers or taking the experience of this and that for us. Now the story switches between the characters rather than focus on Crest's experience of them.

*meh* I'm still happy with the current story telling, but I can see the contrast to the earlier method.  Effectively we were seeing Crest's growth of knowledge and experience to match our own of Iscariot while he's kind of missed those lessons since about the end of Book 3.  But I guess it's switched to growing him in other areas.  He's becoming a more competent fighter and developing a steadily stronger connection/relationship with Inverness.

It honestly wouldn't surprise me if we see Crest and Suspira hit it off and become another set of past characters that maybe show up in the future like Moss and Regina.  But if it happens, it'd be at least three books away by my judgement.

Heh, here's a prediction.  Regina and Crest hit it off and suddenly Crest finds two women competing for his affections.  I could totally see Crest falking for another jester girl besides Maytag.
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Re: Should I feel bad for thinking Crest is the most interesting?
« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2011, 04:53:02 pm »
You know what? I like Crest. Perhaps it's because he was introduced first (not including chapter 0, which I read later anyway). It does upset me he doesn't have some sort of amazing plot surrounding him personally, yet, but I still love all the characters.
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Re: Should I feel bad for thinking Crest is the most interesting?
« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2011, 04:59:50 am »
I completely agree with Robochocobo, and I'm in awe for their ability to phrase their argument and opinions so eloquently. To be honest, I'm really hoping for Bern and Maytag to break up at some point. I can sort of see it happening for drama's sake, and then I expect they'll come back together later on, even though personally I'd prefer them not to. All these hints and suggestions and foreshadowings about how a relationship built upon conflicting opinions and philosophies is doomed to fail make me anxious for May and Bern's to fall apart. It just seems too impossible. The way there's always some conflict between the two opposing ideologies. Obviously some of the major ones were such like in the earlier chapters, or in the caravan with Nagelring, but even seemingly lesser ones (which I anticipate may play a larger role in the near future) like Bernadette and Maytag's discussion about the new girl Vennice, and whether or not Bern should go out with her. Not only has the fidelity/hedonism thing been done and beaten to death, but Bern is kind of starting to seem like a one-dimensional character. Unlike the spontaneous Maytag, you can really predict how Bern is going to react to any given situation. That, coupled with the sort of doting supporter that we see when Maytag proclaims her desire for a soundshow, and Bern replies "I'll support you however I can, May!" makes the whole May/Bern (Berntag?) shipping kind of cloying.

In contrast to that, I'm a big fan of Crestag shipping. Yes, I'm making up fandom terms. Brick me. Based on what we saw in the first few chapters, Crest has the capacity to be a very dynamic character. He's fairly neutral for the time being, and he seems like he can be more easily swayed to different (non-knight) viewpoints. He's also adorable in his spluttering, highschoolish attempts at asking Maytag out. One of my favorite scenes in the whole comic so far is in the first chapter, only a few pages in, when Crest is turned down by Maytag and he laughs it off, but then pulls his goggles over his crying eyes. Very touching! It's these components that I think make Crest a perfect foil for Maytag, and if Maytag must be the central character then I think those two are much more complementary. While Crest is far too introverted and needs to come out of his shell, Maytag is a little too outgoing with herself and needs to be reigned in. This is what it seems Suspira and Bernadette are doing, to their respective characters. But both of these trials of character development could be seen working so much better in those first few chapters, during Crest and Maytag's mini-fake-date. Already, Crest was becoming more outspoken as Maytag was coaching him (and he was, again, adorable in everything he did.) And then on Maytag's side, when she told him she "had a boyfriend" but was willing to cheat, it really struck a chord with her when Crest reacted so strongly. THAT'S why I think they'd be a better pair than Maytag and Bernadette. Bern's upset whenever Maytag does things like that, but she said herself that she likes when Maytag's content and just kind of lets it happen, to which Maytag protests and says she shouldn't. Crest actually asserted himself about how he felt, even though in that situation it was not in his most self-fulfilling interest. So while we continue to see the Berntagging continue on long into the later chapters, hugging and kissing and talking to each other through magic rings, I agree with the OP that Crest is the most interesting character and to me, those first few exposition chapters are my favorite.

(Why do I feel like I've just written a school paper analyzing works?)

Robochocobo

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Re: Should I feel bad for thinking Crest is the most interesting?
« Reply #12 on: May 26, 2011, 09:50:19 pm »
and Bern replies "I'll support you however I can, May!" makes the whole May/Bern (Berntag?) shipping kind of cloying.
I think we're zeroing in on a big weakness in Bernadette's depictions in the comic so far.  I don't think she's ever been given enough isolated attention, aka story focus while apart from Maytag.  Maytag is such a strong personality that she steals scenes from other characters just by being present.  We know more about Bern as defined by her relationship with Maytag than we do about Bern as an individual, and most of Bern's plotpoints are entirely centric to her relationship.  In her weaker moments she feels almost defined by it.  This latest arc could solve this deficiency by giving Bern some time alone in the spotlight.  I'm not too hot on the magic ring plot device though because it still connects her to Maytag with a very intimate form of communication. 

Quote
In contrast to that, I'm a big fan of Crestag shipping. Yes, I'm making up fandom terms. Brick me.
Don't let yourself get attached to shipping.  It's not good for your long term health as a fan.  It makes you less open and flexible to plotlines that don't match up with your biases, conscious or unconscious.  Brion has a story in mind and it'd be a shame if you couldn't enjoy it fully because you had your heart set on something that won't happen.

Quote
Based on what we saw in the first few chapters, Crest has the capacity to be a very dynamic character. He's fairly neutral for the time being, and he seems like he can be more easily swayed to different (non-knight) viewpoints.

This is what really defines Crest to me as a character.  He has depth and moral conflict.  Crest seems to be a good person but he doesn't seem to be very fond of people in positions of power.  He's skeptical because he's seen their abuses, and understands what it means to be helpless.  Despite the layers of cynicism on his character, Crest is a very noble character filled with empathy and most importantly a conscience.  That's what makes his scenes such as his rejection to cheat with Maytag so powerful.  We're never quite sure what Crest is going to do, but his actions usually feel right for him.  I look forward to seeing him mature as the story goes on. (Primarily because I want to see what choices he makes, and how this contrasts or creates conflict with Maytag's rather laissez faire sensibilities.)

...!!!! Don't get me wrong, I look forward to more moments with Bern, and Maytag (or Suspiria even).  I feel like a jerk for analyzing stories this deeply.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2011, 09:55:32 pm by Robochocobo »

Kato Matsu

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Re: Should I feel bad for thinking Crest is the most interesting?
« Reply #13 on: October 31, 2011, 03:54:31 pm »
I registered on this forum specifically to voice this exact opinion... little did I know but someone had beat me to it.

I enjoyed Flipside FAR more when Crest seemed like the main character.

I've looked through several posts and now see that Crest was not intended to be a main character at all. He seems to be a close 3rd to Maytag and Bern. How disappointing  :(

It's like I'm watching Star Wars episode IV and I see Luke Skywalker. You are watching him develop as a character then suddenly Lucas goes "Wait, silly move patron, this story is about Chewie and Han Solo. I know, I know. They looked like secondary characters, but they aren't."
« Last Edit: October 31, 2011, 04:11:39 pm by Kato Matsu »

Brion Foulke

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Re: Should I feel bad for thinking Crest is the most interesting?
« Reply #14 on: October 31, 2011, 04:33:35 pm »
He's still important.  By the way, chapter 31 will be kind of a Crest chapter

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Re: Should I feel bad for thinking Crest is the most interesting?
« Reply #15 on: December 07, 2011, 01:56:16 pm »
I prefer the mixed cast of main characters who would rotate from time to time depending on who the focus would be directed.

Since I started reading this story seeing a banner about a nymphomaniac jester girl, and a female knight, not a kinda thief boy story, so in a way first chapters were a bit of surprise for me how much focus was given on Crest and his backstory.

I'm actually like that Crest stopped being the "main" character, we get the basics about the story from his perspective as readers, get to know May and Bern from a stranger look, when we learned the thing we had to to grasp the circumstances correctly regarding Bern and May relation, the focus was changed accordingly so we could start the real story.

I'm too one of the few who finds Bern and May relation a bit forced, but what can you do, that's love :P
On Bern place I would dump May 100 times already, someone says that Bern being her usual self is all the time all the same in her thinking and actions, for me that's actually a big plus, that she's doing in what she belives is right and try to stick to it.

But I too enjoy this time when Bern is not with May(and where May is not in direct danger so all thoughts of Bern wouldn't be focused on her), like other I think she needs her own alone time to shine a bit, spread her wings.

The same with Crest, to get of the May 'hook' for a while and get his own adventure.
Since chapter 31 title is Anticlimax no wonder it's Crest chapter, since I find his character a bit dull from time to time, like you get in stories a usual boy character into who majority of male readers could easily self-insert, sorry I can't do that with Crest too much :P
« Last Edit: December 07, 2011, 01:58:01 pm by Kiran »

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Re: Should I feel bad for thinking Crest is the most interesting?
« Reply #16 on: December 09, 2011, 10:13:31 am »
Alright, I've been putting off joining for quite some time, but here we go...

I've never really been that big on Crest as a character, but he was... decent. I honestly hate the moments we get with him now. They always feel so boring and forced. I liked it when everyone had a chance to shine, when we would frequently rotate the main characters. Story about sex? Maytag's time to shine! Story about honour and proving yourself? Bern! And... whatever Crest's theme was, I don't really know/care. But it was interesting when it was set up like that.

I, too, am really sick of the Bern/Maytag relationship. I liked it at first, but now I'm just watching a soap opera. And I would really, really, like to see Bern by herself, doing things, seeing her thoughts. By herself. She's definitely my favourite character, and she's mainly been shown as a Maytag cling-on lately.

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Re: Should I feel bad for thinking Crest is the most interesting?
« Reply #17 on: January 14, 2012, 10:02:17 pm »
Part of the reason I got into the comic was Crest. He was skilled but awkward in situations and those flaws made a great character. I wanted to see how his and May's and Bern's situations would continue. Then he was relegated to outsider status, with little spots of show, like cameos in a TV show. Don't get me wrong, I love the book and the story and the characters, but the main draw for me in the first place seems to have been put on a back burner. It's like taking Gandalf, Frodo and Aragorn and saying that "Aragorn's out doing something" while detailing every move that Gandalf and Frodo are making. I love the book, Brion, it's just a fanboy venting ; )

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Re: Should I feel bad for thinking Crest is the most interesting?
« Reply #18 on: January 25, 2012, 11:55:25 am »
I dont care about Crest but at least he's not a main character and can eventually disappear, unlike Bernadette who will probably stick forever

Ryuu

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Re: Should I feel bad for thinking Crest is the most interesting?
« Reply #19 on: January 25, 2012, 01:51:55 pm »
I dont care about Crest but at least he's not a main character and can eventually disappear, unlike Bernadette who will probably stick forever
In what sence is crest not a main character, despite his absense in book 0, he is stil pretty solidified in the story.

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Re: Should I feel bad for thinking Crest is the most interesting?
« Reply #20 on: January 25, 2012, 09:00:39 pm »
Crest IS a main character, but one must give him time... if he were to be less than a Hero, then FUCK IT ALL, the story is not worth  the time

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Re: Should I feel bad for thinking Crest is the most interesting?
« Reply #21 on: January 26, 2012, 07:11:36 pm »
I dunno, flipside, to me, has never been about the heroes and villains. It's a lot more character led, rather than action led. Yeah, it has it's action scenes, the same as an action series has characters

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Re: Should I feel bad for thinking Crest is the most interesting?
« Reply #22 on: February 03, 2012, 04:45:40 pm »
  To be honest, Crest bugs me a bit. He didn't at first and he's starting to grow on me again but...  Really I think it was just one thing he said leading up to the Bloody Mary arc that struck a nerve with me.  That and probably because he at this point hasn't really developed as a character as of yet.  Though we may be getting back into a part of the story where he gets some chance for him again (Bernadette away+Melter looking for Maytag+Crest training=Crest actually fighting?)

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Re: Should I feel bad for thinking Crest is the most interesting?
« Reply #23 on: February 04, 2012, 05:23:03 pm »
What one thing was tht?

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Re: Should I feel bad for thinking Crest is the most interesting?
« Reply #24 on: February 07, 2012, 11:25:12 am »
What one thing was tht?

  It was the one observation he had about May and Bern's relationship and how he would be there to pick up the pieces.  I can't fully express why but it rubbed me the wrong way.  It probably was designed so that it would (Not sure, I don't like to put too many words into the writer's mouth).  I think in part it maybe gave me the impression he was gonna get stuck on maytag and be slower than I would for him to develop to where he could have a real relationship again. 

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Re: Should I feel bad for thinking Crest is the most interesting?
« Reply #25 on: March 12, 2012, 08:00:49 pm »
To be honest, I find Crest more than alittle Self Centered.
And it REALLY came out when he berated Maytag About not telling him the truth about her Personalities.
That whole scene, to put it bluntly, pissed me off. I mean she owes him NOTHING and here he is demanding that she should have told him she was an emotionless girl?
He seriously needed to back the hell off there.

And sorry I'm so late to the party on that one. It's just as sidekicks go, He definatly isn't one of my favorites.

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Re: Should I feel bad for thinking Crest is the most interesting?
« Reply #26 on: March 19, 2012, 07:31:19 am »
I like Chrest.  Of all the characters, he has the most interesting growth so far.  He also is the one with the most potential for growth, except perhaps Suspiria.  Bernadette needs polishing and to learn to respect and trust Maytag's (and others?) feelings.  Maytag is probably the most complete of the group.  Suspiria has an evil wizard spell thing growing in her head, so that's going to take her some getting used to - though I suspect she won't be around much longer.  But Chrest doesn't have anything going for him.  Anything he learns will be through grit alone.  As a reader, I wish he could have spent more time around Kindred to learn what it takes to be a strong and decent man, although maybe Whitebread can teach him something about the latter in addition to the former.