Author Topic: The Chat Thread  (Read 505862 times)

UmberIsSexy

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Re: The Chat Thread
« Reply #2160 on: February 08, 2010, 09:45:35 pm »
I haven't digested the whole pedophilia discussion in this thread as well as I should, but some thoughts after reading briefly:

1. Everything's OK.  No thought or impulse is inherently "wrong".  However, if acting in some way may cause hurt to another, you may choose another course of action, or inaction.  Of course, this is a philosophical viewpoint, not a practical viewpoint, so it might be easy to disagree with me if you're talking from a different place, such as trying to find rules that maintain social order, etc.

But no thought pattern ever changes or goes away just because of someone calling it "wrong".  If it's not going to change, then you might as well address it with love, caring, and full attention, rather than trying to turn it off or decide that it's wrong.  Can we all agree this is one of the main problems of Christianity?

I get subconsciously attracted to my little students every now and then during class (ok not that little, but still little).  A teacher I used to work with called it "pattern recognition", your eyes just see legs with nylons poking out from a short skirt, and woop!  You look at them in "that way" without any thought at all.  It just happens before you're even aware of it.  I have pervy moments like this every now and then.  Once I was at my brother's high school basketball game, and there was this little probably 14 year old sitting in front of me with a red thong showing at the back of her pants.  I knew it was wrong, but I couldn't stop glancing at it, and it was definitely a sexual urge that kept making me glance.  It's an age-old thing anyway, us old men getting turned on by young girls.  Best just to shrug, remember you're old, and move on.  It's not a big deal.

2. Sexual maturity/readiness - when does it happen?  Nature has not quite caught up with our current human values (which I don't think are bad or wrong, and I think we're evolving to where our nature will catch up).  Hormonally, who here was not hornier than hell by 15?  OK, some of us probably weren't, but some of us were.  I believe that some tribal cultures have mating ceremonies to pair up girls and boys who are around 14 - 18 or so.  The babies they produce are taken care of by the elders.  I think that's about where our nature is, in terms of hormone production, mental responses to sexuality, production of pheromones, etc.  Evolutionally speaking, we're not even physically used to living past the age of 35 yet, though we're getting there.

3. Japanese people in general are under huge amounts of stress (from what I hear).  I think their perverted fantasies (and oh my God do I think they're perverted) to some extent are a result of that.  A successful man should be working around 14-16 hours a day, from what I hear, and jobs are not even that easy to come by (this is in Tokyo), so you always have to be trying to work harder than the next guy.  Also, the cost of living is through the roof.  Insanity reigns supreme.  What I don't get is what all the fantasies seem to fit into like a group of like at most 10 patterns, and people apparently still get off on that.  But whatever, that's kind of an Asian thing, doing what's been done a thousand times before, and having it still be cool.  Probably somewhat a product of having a much older culture than we have in the states.

4. I think what's probably being fetishized is probably innocence?  When you consciously and thoughtfully get turned on by taking someone's innocence away, I think that might be a little sick.  It probably means you don't spend enough time with children, imo, you're not a very well-intentioned person, or maybe you have some childhood issues you need to work out.

5. The flipside of that: losing your sexual innocence probably ought to be a beautiful thing, and well-supported by someone with experience, and maybe that's why we have natural attractions towards young, or specifically innocent-seeming people as we get older.  Getting back to tribal traditions, I know there were some Native American tribes where the young men would spend time with a mature woman learning about how to have sex properly and how to take care of a woman, before they were loosed on the young girls.  I don't know how - it's so hard, almost impossible in our current repressed society, but we really need to get back to that.  I had a good ex-hippie friend in California (not all hippies are bad by the way, or even really hippies.  Some are just thoughtful people seeking a better way of life) who lost her virginity at 16 to an I forget how old guy.  late 20's I think.  And she said it was wonderful and she really treasures that memory.  Apparently he was a friend, and a good guy, and he took good care of her.  They didn't even have a relationship (another perverted creation of our sick society - monogamous relationships :P), they just had some sex.

But anyway, I have been pleased, as I get older, to note that I am much more attracted to older women now, and not attracted at all to any girls less than 20.  They just have a "not ready" look to me.  I was never a milf guy in my 20's, and always thought teenagers were hot unless they looked really young, so I'm glad that my attractions seem to have matured a bit.  A lot of it though I think is just from having good experiences with my wife, and therefore desiring a more mature woman (young girls talk so much!)

I'm really sorry for rambling on and on...

edit: but I agree with you that it's weird and I don't know why anime has to be like that.  Sort of gets in the way of its other positive qualities, like you're saying.

edit2: Another thought: there's also the infinite bubbly energy of a young girl for an "old man" to be attracted to.  Not sure about the young boy attraction, but I'm sure someone understands it.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2010, 10:11:36 pm by UmberIsSexy »

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Re: The Chat Thread
« Reply #2161 on: February 08, 2010, 10:10:43 pm »
I haven't digested the whole pedophilia discussion in this thread as well as I should, but some thoughts after reading briefly:

1. Everything's OK.  No thought or impulse is inherently "wrong".  However, if acting in some way may cause hurt to another, you may choose another course of action, or inaction.  Of course, this is a philosophical viewpoint, not a practical viewpoint, so it might be easy to disagree with me if you're talking from a different place, such as trying to find rules that maintain social order, etc.

But no thought pattern ever changes or goes away just because of someone calling it "wrong".  If it's not going to change, then you might as well address it with love, caring, and full attention, rather than trying to turn it off or decide that it's wrong.  Can we all agree this is one of the main problems of Christianity?

No, we can't, because (1) true Christians realize temptations =/= sin, and non-true Christians don't figure into Christianity (2) Evil thoughts are still a product of a sin nature, presumably perfect God does not have wrong thoughts.

But otherwise, yeah.



Quote
2. Sexual maturity/readiness - when does it happen?  Nature has not quite caught up with our current human values (which I don't think are bad or wrong, and I think we're evolving to where our nature will catch up).  Hormonally, who here was not hornier than hell by 15?  OK, some of us probably weren't, but some of us were.  I believe that some tribal cultures have mating ceremonies to pair up girls and boys who are around 14 - 18 or so.  The babies they produce are taken care of by the elders.  I think that's about where our nature is, in terms of hormone production, mental responses to sexuality, production of pheromones, etc.  Evolutionally speaking, we're not even physically used to living past the age of 35 yet, though we're getting there.

Plus it's totally possible to be emotionally mature by age 13, especially if you grew up farming and hunting and fighting off barbarians and stuff.


Quote
5. The flipside of that: losing your sexual innocence probably ought to be a beautiful thing, and well-supported by someone with experience, and maybe that's why we have natural attractions towards young, or specifically innocent-seeming people as we get older.  Getting back to tribal traditions, I know there were some Native American tribes where the young men would spend time with a mature woman learning about how to have sex properly and how to take care of a woman, before they were loosed on the young girls.  I don't know how - it's so hard, almost impossible in our current repressed society, but we really need to get back to that.  I had a good ex-hippie friend in California (not all hippies are bad by the way, or even really hippies.  Some are just thoughtful people seeking a better way of life) who lost her virginity at 16 to an I forget how old guy.  late 20's I think.  And she said it was wonderful and she really treasures that memory.  Apparently he was a friend, and a good guy, and he took good care of her.  They didn't even have a relationship (another perverted creation of our sick society - monogamous relationships :P), they just had some sex.

Personally, I think viewing it as "innocence" is bad. You're not "losing" innocence/virginity, you are "gaining" an experience. The "naughty sex" mindset, while it seems fun, really hurts sexuality in general.

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Re: The Chat Thread
« Reply #2162 on: February 08, 2010, 10:12:29 pm »
Aw, we love you when you ramble Umber. (It's also ok when you don't ramble[actually I just like you posting here])

My attraction to men/women is so bizarre, it's hard to talk about. I used to only be attracted to older people, but not too much older. Now that I'm getting older, I can see the appeal in certain mature adult physical traits that I never used to be comfortable with before, but am open to younger men and women (apparently) too. And my sexuality is actually rather difficult to explain right now without having Umber's ramble engine.

I guess my point is that it's funny how attraction changes and evolves as you get older. If you're not japanese and loli as all hell.

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Re: The Chat Thread
« Reply #2163 on: February 08, 2010, 10:22:10 pm »
I have, like, Schodinger's Sexuality.


When I find traits "attractive" I just mean they are "cool" or "interesting" because that's as far as it goes.

Or I'm attracted to uniqueness. Or kindness shown towards me.
But even then...I don't know if it's sexual or not. Sometimes it is, or isn't, or it's both, until I start thinking about it, then it's one, or the other, or then it changes.

I'm basically attracted to people my own age, period (as far as real people go, that is). Because it's all about mental/emotional connections for me...and I doubt I could connect with someone with an age difference.

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Re: The Chat Thread
« Reply #2164 on: February 08, 2010, 10:28:10 pm »
Of course, my main and only important attractors are geekiness/intelligence. Which is basically the same as what I'm looking for in friends, too. So I wonder where that line is, or if there's a line at all. I'm the kind of person that could have random casual sex with people I get along with, anyway.

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Re: The Chat Thread
« Reply #2165 on: February 08, 2010, 10:28:25 pm »
I have, like, Schodinger's Sexuality.
He is both erect, and not erect, at the same time, until you open his pants and observe his state of arousal.

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Re: The Chat Thread
« Reply #2166 on: February 08, 2010, 10:29:30 pm »
No, we can't, because (1) true Christians realize temptations =/= sin, and non-true Christians don't figure into Christianity (2) Evil thoughts are still a product of a sin nature, presumably perfect God does not have wrong thoughts.

But otherwise, yeah.
Right so yeah I don't get down with the Evil thoughts or the sin nature thing.  "Sin" and "nature" are opposing ideas in my mind.  Call it hope.  I hope that we've been created to be ok, so I try to accept my nature.  Going against nature rings to me of control, which I believe was a central theme in the formation of the establishment of Christianity.  (not a driving motivation of Jesus, I don't think, but rather the church)

Quote
Personally, I think viewing it as "innocence" is bad. You're not "losing" innocence/virginity, you are "gaining" an experience. The "naughty sex" mindset, while it seems fun, really hurts sexuality in general.
Right on.  "naughty sex" is fine for adults, I think, but when applied to children it hurts them.  But yeah, as a general statement, I agree.  Plus it probably wouldn't be necessary as a turn-on if we were all naked (and farming and hunting and fighting off barbarians).

My attraction to men/women is so bizarre, it's hard to talk about. I used to only be attracted to older people, but not too much older. Now that I'm getting older, I can see the appeal in certain mature adult physical traits...
Broader backs and thicker skin that can take more whipping? :P

coffee fuels my ramble engine, I have to admit.
...it's funny how attraction changes and evolves as you get older. If you're not japanese and loli as all hell.
haha exactly.

Churba

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Re: The Chat Thread
« Reply #2167 on: February 08, 2010, 10:31:39 pm »
Of course, my main and only important attractors are geekiness/intelligence. Which is basically the same as what I'm looking for in friends, too. So I wonder where that line is, or if there's a line at all. I'm the kind of person that could have random casual sex with people I get along with, anyway.
Why state my position when Akashayi stated it for me already? So, basically, this.

UmberIsSexy

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Re: The Chat Thread
« Reply #2168 on: February 08, 2010, 10:42:21 pm »
Right, so let's go then!  Get off that Santa hat!  no wait, leave it on...

final thought: damn I forgot it!

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Re: The Chat Thread
« Reply #2169 on: February 08, 2010, 10:56:52 pm »
Struth!  Does this need to go to the Debate room?  Not suggesting it's getting argumentative, just very deep and possibly deserves a full thread for discussion, maybe on age of consent, pedophilia and sexualisation of those under 18 in general.  *shrug*

My only additional comment now is to say that it's not so much a case of innocence but that a childhood is a gift that we in the developed, western world are generally able to grant our children up to the age of 18.
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Re: The Chat Thread
« Reply #2170 on: February 08, 2010, 11:03:36 pm »
I have, like, Schodinger's Sexuality.
He is both erect, and not erect, at the same time, until you open his pants and observe his state of arousal.

It has never made more sense! *cough*
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UmberIsSexy

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Re: The Chat Thread
« Reply #2171 on: February 08, 2010, 11:21:01 pm »
Struth!  Does this need to go to the Debate room?  Not suggesting it's getting argumentative, just very deep and possibly deserves a full thread for discussion, maybe on age of consent, pedophilia and sexualisation of those under 18 in general.  *shrug*

My only additional comment now is to say that it's not so much a case of innocence but that a childhood is a gift that we in the developed, western world are generally able to grant our children up to the age of 18.
whether or not they want it, right?

I don't think that age delineation really serves us completely well.  I think we could somewhat push it back...or rather support and prepare our kids better  for adulthood rather than just bam! you're 18, you're an adult now, see ya later!  bam! you're 21 now, go get drunk!  I plan on being there every step of the way for my kids with a listening ear and ready to share my experience, whether they want me to or not, but giving them every responsibility for themselves as early as I can.

If they want to have sex before 18, they have every right, but they better damn well be responsible for everything that goes along with it.  Fact is, I don't want to control their lives to the point where I could stop them anyways, if that's what they want to do, so I'll do my best to scare them off of accidentally having babies or whatnot, and try to keep in contact with and know the parents of whoever they might potentially be having sex with.

I mean, your 20's is a much better time to have casual sex (not that I had any), but a teenager is a beast which must be carefully handled.  I don't think it serves anyone to attempt total behavior control.  I mean, I was a very nice and obedient kid, but there were still many many times where I just was going to do something, and what my parents thought of it or their rules or consequences factored into my decision exactly 0%, because dammit, it's My life!  I see this in my older son already, and he's only 7!  There are certain times where it's not even, "I'm willing to risk the punishment." it's that it doesn't even cross his mind.

And yeah, this could certainly (and likely should) be moved to the debate room, probably due to my rambling.

edit: oh and the reason I brought up innocence is that at one point Ronin asked "what is being fetishized?", so I was suggesting innocence as a possibility.  I think a lot of dudes do covet the chance to corrupt or take away innocence.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2010, 11:28:12 pm by UmberIsSexy »

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Re: The Chat Thread
« Reply #2172 on: February 08, 2010, 11:29:45 pm »
Personally, I think children should have all feelings repressed except for fear, until the age of 18 at which time they will be sent to the military and trade it in for courage.

Those whose genes make it through the grinding mill of war will be permitted to mate.

But I'm an evil tyrant who likes to see people repressed out of envy and spite, so take what I say with a grain of salt.

Quote from: UmberIsSexy link=topic=5.msg66156#msg66156
Right so yeah I don't get down with the Evil thoughts or the sin nature thing.  "Sin" and "nature" are opposing ideas in my mind.  Call it hope.  I hope that we've been created to be ok, so I try to accept my nature.  Going against nature rings to me of control, which I believe was a central theme in the formation of the establishment of Christianity.  (not a driving motivation of Jesus, I don't think, but rather the church)

See, I take the opposite. I think humans start out as trash and have to work their way up of their own free will. Going against nature means rising above all that.

Quote
Right on.  "naughty sex" is fine for adults, I think, but when applied to children it hurts them.  But yeah, as a general statement, I agree.  Plus it probably wouldn't be necessary as a turn-on if we were all naked (and farming and hunting and fighting off barbarians).

Well, even with adults. There's too many two-faced attitudes about sex. Porn (and others) is all "dirty slut gets nailed", what kind of message is that? I heard another one about the baseball metaphor, and scoring, and such. It's...subtle, but it's really negative.

« Last Edit: February 08, 2010, 11:33:03 pm by CrystalDragonSpaceMarine »

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Re: The Chat Thread
« Reply #2173 on: February 08, 2010, 11:32:04 pm »
Created a Debate Room topic for the discussion HERE

Copy what you want over and continue there if it suits you *shrug*
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Re: The Chat Thread
« Reply #2174 on: February 08, 2010, 11:34:04 pm »
Aw, but no one will see it there.

Anyways, I'm sick of heavy stuff. I need lighter things.

Except my usual happiness fix, One Piece, is going through a heavy story arc.

Dammit! It's like that one chick says from Soul Calibur..."NO ESCAPE!!"

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Re: The Chat Thread
« Reply #2175 on: February 08, 2010, 11:36:59 pm »
People will see it there better.  I just think some great discussion and points have been made here and if it stays here then it'll get lost in the 70+ pages of the general chat thread topic when we change the subject and go to a new page *shrug*
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UmberIsSexy

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Re: The Chat Thread
« Reply #2176 on: February 08, 2010, 11:44:02 pm »
If we move it over, future generations of lurkers will be enlightened by our wisdom...nice one charles!

So do we "move" or "copy"?

Well, even with adults. There's too many two-faced attitudes about sex. Porn (and others) is all "dirty slut gets nailed", what kind of message is that? I heard another one about the baseball metaphor, and scoring, and such. It's...subtle, but it's really negative.
Can't argue with you there.  That's totally true.

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Re: The Chat Thread
« Reply #2177 on: February 08, 2010, 11:45:56 pm »
Every time someone mentions casual sex, I get a picture in my head of two people having sex, but very casually.

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Re: The Chat Thread
« Reply #2178 on: February 08, 2010, 11:49:36 pm »
Every time someone mentions casual sex, I get a picture in my head of two people having sex, but very casually.

Sex *should* be more casual.

Like,
"Which hole should I put it in?"
"Whichever. Do you want me to go faster?"
"I'm cool with it the way it is. Is it okay if I slap your ass?"
"Yeah, I'm cool with that, but not too hard, okay?"
"Oh God, this feels great."
"Yeah, it really does."
*CLIMAX*
"Well, that was fun."
"Want to go smoke a cigarette now?"
"Sure?"

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Re: The Chat Thread
« Reply #2179 on: February 09, 2010, 12:08:25 am »
hahaha, that's totally awesome cdsm.

I have had pretty casual sex in that sort of sense before. This has happened. Like, eh, sure, let's have sex. >.>

--

Also, I hate the majority of what comes out as porn. I think most of it, being "dirty-blond-slut with fake tits gets nailed", is kind of tacky, gross, generally unappealing. But there's a lot of good, tasteful pron out there, too. To which I thank intelligent sex bloggers like Violet Blue a million and one times over for helping me find.

--

bonus! (nsfw):
Sex is Funny!
http://sexisfunny.tumblr.com/

UmberIsSexy

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Re: The Chat Thread
« Reply #2180 on: February 09, 2010, 12:10:07 am »
"Which hole should I put it in?"
"Whichever one, it doesn't mGLK!"

sorry

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Re: The Chat Thread
« Reply #2181 on: February 09, 2010, 12:12:03 am »
"Which hole should I put it in?"
"Whichever one, it doesn't mGLK!"

sorry

hahahaha, there's a manga page I have here somewhere where a girl is expecting a kiss but gets a mouth full of cock instead. Maybe I'll dig in a moment or CDSM will deliver (because of the general assumption I make about his having this image for some reason.)

UmberIsSexy

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Re: The Chat Thread
« Reply #2182 on: February 09, 2010, 03:14:35 am »
Jeez I thought I was the only one who disappeared (I was working for a few hours there)...

but it seems everyone's gone off somewhere...

well, back to work!

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Re: The Chat Thread
« Reply #2183 on: February 09, 2010, 09:14:07 am »
Had a good excuse, just got back from nightshift and had to sleep for my shift tonight.
What good is dreaming it if you don't actually do it?.

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Re: The Chat Thread
« Reply #2184 on: February 09, 2010, 09:16:11 am »
You passed in the excuse department

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Re: The Chat Thread
« Reply #2185 on: February 09, 2010, 09:19:33 am »
Why thank you Ma'am.  Could of used my other excuse: I had to go watch the Peruvian Navy on excerise in the South Atlantic
What good is dreaming it if you don't actually do it?.

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Re: The Chat Thread
« Reply #2186 on: February 09, 2010, 10:05:38 am »
For the first Ü(m)ber-rant-post I was sleeping, then I went to work and worked and now I'm home :)

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Re: The Chat Thread
« Reply #2187 on: February 09, 2010, 10:16:31 am »
Also, I hate the majority of what comes out as porn. I think most of it, being "dirty-blond-slut with fake tits gets nailed", is kind of tacky, gross, generally unappealing. But there's a lot of good, tasteful pron out there, too. To which I thank intelligent sex bloggers like Violet Blue a million and one times over for helping me find.

I would appreciate more...romance. And acting. And stuff like that.
Which is why if I want to see something with sex in it, I read hentai manga.

Quote
bonus! (nsfw):
Sex is Funny!
http://sexisfunny.tumblr.com/

Heh.


Injuries are still funnier though.


hahahaha, there's a manga page I have here somewhere where a girl is expecting a kiss but gets a mouth full of cock instead. Maybe I'll dig in a moment or CDSM will deliver (because of the general assumption I make about his having this image for some reason.)

No, assuredly, I would not keep such an image.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2010, 10:30:35 am by CrystalDragonSpaceMarine »

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Re: The Chat Thread
« Reply #2188 on: February 09, 2010, 04:31:51 pm »
Its very hard to build a story around full sex scenes.  To be honest, I'm actually yet to see a really good one.  I mean, once they're bonking... well... they're bonking.  Most of the mainstream movies with suggestive sex scenes only last a few seconds to a minute or two at most, 'cos that part of story pretty much says "they bonked and thats that".

Best I can think is if the Basic Instinct movies were made with full sex scenes rather than suggestive/softcore stuff.  Thats probably one of the few movies where they managed to have storyline take place DURING the sex scenes. Heh, some of the old geek-group comedy movies might do good as well.
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CrystalDragonSpaceMarine

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Re: The Chat Thread
« Reply #2189 on: February 09, 2010, 06:35:09 pm »
Well, what I mean is, they could at least have some better build-up apart from "Pizza Guy shows up and gets seduced".

I need interesting characters! You can set up character in only a couple minutes, really.