Author Topic: Intermission 17: Discussion  (Read 16321 times)

tbeean

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Re: Chapter 25: Intermission
« Reply #30 on: April 15, 2010, 03:54:35 am »
Intermissions are totally diffrent from the main story line tbeean, thats why May has her left arm and Bern throws bricks.

What we need around here are more Flipside BricksTM!!
That was Azure who asked, not me  :P

Oddball

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Re: Chapter 25: Intermission
« Reply #31 on: April 15, 2010, 04:00:28 am »
Just put it down to Mondayitis.
What good is dreaming it if you don't actually do it?.

Eversist

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Re: Chapter 25: Intermission
« Reply #32 on: April 19, 2010, 02:40:30 pm »
So does this magical 100% birth control protect against STDs as well?  :-\

ludo

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Re: Chapter 25: Intermission
« Reply #33 on: April 19, 2010, 05:55:53 pm »
Disabled magically.

Like "how a blind woman can be cured ?" or "how a arm can be replaced ?". Magic do stuff, that's all.

Churba

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Re: Chapter 25: Intermission
« Reply #34 on: April 19, 2010, 06:03:31 pm »
Disabled magically.

Like "how a blind woman can be cured ?" or "how a arm can be replaced ?". Magic do stuff, that's all.
Magic is a tool you have to be careful with in your writer's arsenal - you can use it as a handwave so that you don't have to explain all these things, but it quickly gets boring if magic is a catch-all solution to everything.

CrystalDragonSpaceMarine

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Re: Chapter 25: Intermission
« Reply #35 on: April 19, 2010, 08:31:14 pm »
Disabled magically.

Like "how a blind woman can be cured ?" or "how a arm can be replaced ?". Magic do stuff, that's all.
Magic is a tool you have to be careful with in your writer's arsenal - you can use it as a handwave so that you don't have to explain all these things, but it quickly gets boring if magic is a catch-all solution to everything.

Of course, the flipside (ha!) to a poor magic system is, "If magic is so special, when can't it solve X?"
Where X is a problem that magic could probably solve, but isn't in order to facilitate drama or whatever.
For more information, see Reed Richards.

Churba

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Re: Chapter 25: Intermission
« Reply #36 on: April 19, 2010, 09:41:11 pm »
For more information, see Reed Richards.
Correction, for more information, see Reed Richards is Useless.

charles

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Re: Chapter 25: Intermission
« Reply #37 on: April 20, 2010, 06:11:37 pm »
So does this magical 100% birth control protect against STDs as well?  :-\

That was one of the first things I thought of as well, but I guess magick can probably cure any disease that doesn't attack the brain so I'd say they're safe as this would mean there would be very few people with stds out there thanks to all the cures and if you do get one you can get a cure.

Actually, its possible that with the healing technology available you could get a sorcerer to make you permanently infertile then pay one to repair/reverse the procedure when/if you decide to have children.

Considering Bern doesn't use magick or potions, this could be particularly dangerous depending on exactly how far Danzig got with Glyph's body.
CLAN OF THE CATS IS MAKING A COMEBACK! JUNE 8th.  BE THERE!

Brion Foulke

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Re: Chapter 25: Intermission
« Reply #38 on: April 21, 2010, 12:11:19 am »
Magic is a tool you have to be careful with in your writer's arsenal - you can use it as a handwave so that you don't have to explain all these things, but it quickly gets boring if magic is a catch-all solution to everything.

Generally, "magic" or "technology" has the same properties as any other plot contrivance, if it feels forced in order to facilitate the plot, then that is seen as boring.  But in the world of Flipside, magic is a replacement for technology, and if you think about what technology does for us, it's pretty much everything.  So yes, in terms of solving social problems, magic is going to do a ton of things; some beyond what our technology can do, like to pretty much cure any disease, and some not quite at the same level, like no Playstation 3.

But I think that so far the comic has a great track record of not relying on magic too much for solutions to plot problems.  Especially not that comes out of left field.

Churba

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Re: Chapter 25: Intermission
« Reply #39 on: April 21, 2010, 01:00:19 am »
It was more a reply to the quoted post, than the comic itself. If Flipside didn't handle it well, I wouldn't keep reading it - I hate both the "Whoop, Magic suddenly fixed all of our problems, right, we're off the local for a pint" and "Oh noes, for some contrived reason, our magic that normally solves everything is useless here! We are Teh screwed! Oh wait, nevermind, we fixed it, off the pub."

My problem isn't with magic, it's with poorly handled magic. Star trek had a similar problem - their magic plot-breaking technology would always somehow be out of commission, or have some problem, that prevented them from using it, to create fake drama, then oh no, Suprise! Suddenly because the plucky young cadet noticed in the final ten minutes that you forgot to carry the two, everything is fine and dandy again, and the Status Quo is restored, ready for next week's monster/alien/computer virus/space aids to happen to our hapless Heroes.

It's equally stupid when you withold it or ignore it to create fake drama - For example, remember picard gunning down the Borg on the holodeck in star trek First contact? If that worked so well, why haven't they been replicating a bunch of nice, big .30 calibre browning heavy machine guns every time the borg transport onto the ship? Because that would be too convenient, and there would be no drama.

I mean, it doesn't matter - call it super snuu-snuu powers, if you like. But if it's used as nothing more than a convenient way to return to the Status Quo at the end of the episode, then it's just stupid, contrived, and lazy writing, and THAT is what annoys me.

(P.s - All general "Yous" rather than You specifically)

Azure Priest

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Re: Chapter 25: Intermission
« Reply #40 on: April 21, 2010, 06:03:41 am »
There are three reasons why that trick worked, and Picard couldn't just "replicate" hundreds of machine guns.

1.) The holodeck did not create an actual machine gun for Picard, it just copied the look and effect. The "machine gun" did not fire actual bullets. The holodeck projected light, and various complicated energy fields to duplicate the effect of actual gunfire. Since it's something to which the Borg (tm) were not accustomed, it was effective.

2.) The computer database did not have actual machine gun blueprints (or ammo) that could be replicated (and even if it did, the only place which has replicators is the bar 10 forward, which was already assimilated at that point). Since the ship only contains Holo projectors in the holodeck, and med bay (for the Emergency Medical Hologram), these are the only two places on the ship where a "holo artillery barrage" could be set up.

3.) They are THE BORG. They quickly adapt to anything "new" or "different." The "machine gun" trick would have worked once, maybe twice before the Borg "personal shields" adapted and it became completely useless. I'm certain this would apply to REAL machine guns too. In fact, a remnant of these time traveling Borg awoke in the past on "Enterprise" and DID face machine gun fire, only to adapt and assimilate the SWAT team that was shooting at them.

Oddball

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Re: Chapter 25: Intermission
« Reply #41 on: April 21, 2010, 08:44:58 am »
But the Borg adapts to energy/force weapons  so why not bring back the days of gun poweder? but we are going off topicc here.
What good is dreaming it if you don't actually do it?.

Churba

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Re: Chapter 25: Intermission
« Reply #42 on: April 21, 2010, 06:11:05 pm »
There are three reasons why that trick worked, and Picard couldn't just "replicate" hundreds of machine guns.

1.) The holodeck did not create an actual machine gun for Picard, it just copied the look and effect. The "machine gun" did not fire actual bullets. The holodeck projected light, and various complicated energy fields to duplicate the effect of actual gunfire. Since it's something to which the Borg (tm) were not accustomed, it was effective.

2.) The computer database did not have actual machine gun blueprints (or ammo) that could be replicated (and even if it did, the only place which has replicators is the bar 10 forward, which was already assimilated at that point). Since the ship only contains Holo projectors in the holodeck, and med bay (for the Emergency Medical Hologram), these are the only two places on the ship where a "holo artillery barrage" could be set up.

3.) They are THE BORG. They quickly adapt to anything "new" or "different." The "machine gun" trick would have worked once, maybe twice before the Borg "personal shields" adapted and it became completely useless. I'm certain this would apply to REAL machine guns too. In fact, a remnant of these time traveling Borg awoke in the past on "Enterprise" and DID face machine gun fire, only to adapt and assimilate the SWAT team that was shooting at them.
1)Correct, but that makes it somewhat contradictory to established in-universe tech. It essentially creates a physical object with a combination of force-fields, holographic images, and replicator technology. If anything, in your theory, it was LESS likely to work than a real bullet, as it's a forcefield, and it's been shown again and again that two competing force fields will not pass through each other.

2)Very wrong. There are replicators in every crew quarters, in the captain's ready room, sickbay, mess hall, engineering, etc, and of course, there is the larger Replicating Center, where you can replicate larger items. And they Absolutely do have the ability and knowledge to replicate projectile weapons, and they are in the databanks with lockouts to prevent people replicating them - can't block what you don't know, after all - and on top of that, Starfleet Developed their own Modern-for-the-universe's-time firearm, the Klingons had firearms which would be in the databanks, etc, etc. And needless to say, if there was a detailed enough description in the ship's databanks - even if it wasn't replicator information - it would be assumably quite simple to have the computer figure out a replicator pattern(after all, It already knows how to make steel and other metals, and it would be trivial to shape them how it wanted).

3)If they have personal shields that are so effective, you'd think that they'd have already figured out that they might just want to stop projectiles travelling at 1075 Feet per second, which quite obviously have a detrimental effect. Their traditional greeting is not "We are the Borg, but don't worry, We're pretty goddamn stupid." and, you know, they figured out the whole transwarp thing, and a whole bunch of other crazy technology like nanomachines and regenerating ships, so I really doubt that they'd miss the fact that things travelling at high speed will kill them.  On top of that, it's been shown many times in the canon that Borg are vulnerable to physical attacks, having limbs amputated, being blown up, shot, and so on.
Also, they can't have shields that guard against projectiles on all the time like their shielding against energy weapons seems to be, because of course, their forcefields are frictionless, and if they were always on, they'd never be able to stand up, as they'd have no traction to the floor, and I'm afraid a bunch of cyborgs flailing about on the floor trying to stand up just are not very terrifying. Ditto that for trying to pick up anything without a suitably sized handle, and even that would be tricky.

Do not try to out-geek me, grasshopper. Down that path lies only defeat.

But the Borg adapts to energy/force weapons  so why not bring back the days of gun poweder? but we are going off topicc here.
That we are. Discussion over, unless a new thread is started elsewhere.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2010, 04:19:34 am by Churba »

charles

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Re: Chapter 25: Intermission
« Reply #43 on: April 21, 2010, 10:50:53 pm »
 :'( I love you guys *lol*

I always thought that the Borg shields could only counter so many things at a time.  I mean, if they could counter everything at once they'd simply be smart enough to shield from the entire spectrum/frequency of the lasers. Or they'd have already taken a blast from almost every frequency out there.

Instead, I think a few of them get hit and then the others quickly adapt by adjusting their shields to compensate for that frequency.  They probably go in, already shielded from the more common frequencies and expected weapons.  It's understandable that they might not have been expecting projectile weapons and not factored it in as something to shield against until a few of them were hit and the others adapted to protect from it once it became a known as one of the potential threads in that particular area.


Back to the intermission *LOL* I do love a good brick fight as opposed to a snowball one  ;D

But damn they've both bot a terrible aim... or an excellent dodge *shrug*
CLAN OF THE CATS IS MAKING A COMEBACK! JUNE 8th.  BE THERE!

Churba

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Re: Chapter 25: Intermission
« Reply #44 on: April 21, 2010, 11:06:11 pm »
Oh god I've created a monster. I'm sorry, Brion!

Oddball

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Re: Chapter 25: Intermission
« Reply #45 on: April 22, 2010, 03:58:13 am »
BACK ON TOPIC: I told you what we need around here is more bricks forget magical weapons.  ;D
What good is dreaming it if you don't actually do it?.

charles

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Re: Chapter 25: Intermission
« Reply #46 on: April 22, 2010, 04:09:24 pm »
So will we just use this thread for Chapter 25 anyway?  It's got the right naming for the most part *shrug*.

YAY! Another coloured Bern in an epic fighter's stance coming up... I wonder which chapter cover will be the cover for the book... I guess Brion used one of this book's covers for the last one *shrug*

Probably either Moss or Glyph depending on who's going to be considered a member of the scooby gang, which means we'll be getting a closeup shot on one of them soon... then again, maybe we'll come around full circle for a fresh one of our favorite jester girl  :-*

Path of Magic... Any clues?  Best I can think is we're going to discover that both Glyph AND Danzig took some kind of different angle with the use of their spirit essence that lets them buff themselves.  I do like the return of the scanner on Glyph's face as it's the first thing that occurred to me when I started thinking of him as Super Sayian Glyph *lol*
CLAN OF THE CATS IS MAKING A COMEBACK! JUNE 8th.  BE THERE!