Author Topic: Changing Views & Hipocrisy.  (Read 4376 times)

tbeean

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Changing Views & Hipocrisy.
« on: March 04, 2010, 11:54:17 am »
I find people's views on things really interesting.
One thing I love is how things like religion can change people's views on things.

My mother is a 'born again' christian, and she became a christian last year. Before she became a christian, I listened to Marilyn Manson, the self-proclaimed 'Antichrist Superstar' and she had no problem with it at all, in fact, she encouraged me to listen. But as soon as she was baptized and all christiany ect, she became so anti-manson it's unreal. She banned me from seeing him live, and acts all righteous whenever I listen to his music. I never expected such a sudden change in her. It was like, insta-hipocrisy. D;

My father then told me a theory he had. That people who quit smoking often become the worst for critizing people who do still smoke - as if making up for the wrong they have done before. If you change smoking to a religion-y thing then it does fit how my mother is.

It's a pretty childish rant, but I'm trying to find other examples. Does anyone else get what I mean? Because christianity confuses me like crazy.

Emp_Dragon

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Re: Changing Views & Hipocrisy.
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2010, 11:59:48 am »
Umm, I'd say you have yet to encounter a true christian. As in a christian beeing someone who confess to beliving and following the gospels of the new testament and even though wishing to spread his/her faith would never force it on anyone else and recongnise that the lord is reserving the right to judge for himself alone and thus doesn't pass judgement on their peers either.

Most 'born again christians' are heretics and don't even know it.

tbeean

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Re: Changing Views & Hipocrisy.
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2010, 12:04:58 pm »
Umm, I'd say you have yet to encounter a true christian. As in a christian beeing someone who confess to beliving and following the gospels of the new testament and even though wishing to spread his/her faith would never force it on anyone else and recongnise that the lord is reserving the right to judge for himself alone and thus doesn't pass judgement on their peers either.

Most 'born again christians' are heretics and don't even know it.
*sigh* and that's why christianity's so confusing. most of the ones i've met don't seem to understand what they're believing themselves. I guess my mother isn't a true christian, if I go by your definition, as she tries to force it upon alot of people.

the heretic bit made me laugh. in a good way  :)

charles

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Re: Changing Views & Hipocrisy.
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2010, 05:53:38 pm »
Well... I think there are a number of verses in the bible, etc about raising your children up in the good Christian way and being a bit more vigil and forceful in ensuring they're sheltered from evil and all that.  Not sure how old you are but *shrug* she's your mother so if you're young enough then she can be a bit commanding of what you should and shouldn't do.

Commanding others, hell yeah there's a problem in that, and simply sitting back and judging them... well... I think the verse is something like "before you can pull the splinter from another's eye you must pull the log from your own."  But on a side note, who is an atheist more likely to listen to, a Christian who's followed their faith as the truth all their life, or a former atheist who's chosen to turn to Christianity.  Same could be said in reverse I guess, in that a Christian turned atheist is more likely to convince a Christian out of their faith than a life-long atheist.

But I guess the main point or question you're putting forward isn't just on your particular situation and Christianity.  Are you more vigilant and strong in a belief if you're newly arrived to it compared to someone who's always believed it?  Makes some sense.  I know a pair of Salvation Army ministers where the wife is a life-long Christian and the husband is a born again after being a bouncer and general thug for many years, but neither of them seems more zealous than the other (not that either of them are overbearing or forceful).  But I can certainly imagine that reformed drug addicts might work or argue harder for their children or someone they know to steer clear of drugs.  Just as a woman who's escaped an abusive relationship might work harder to help other women out of such circumstances or be more forceful than others who might sit back and say to themselves that such women need to be willing to save themselves before they can be helped.

I guess you could also argue that they're stronger in their stance because they need to believe they've made the right choice and if they can't convince others to the same choice then it puts doubt on how right they were in their own decision.
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CrystalDragonSpaceMarine

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Re: Changing Views & Hipocrisy.
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2010, 06:18:03 pm »
Is it really hypocrisy if you really changed?

Let's say I am a misogynistic girlfriend-beater. Then one day I realize, "Oh man, this is wrong I can't do this anymore" and stop.

And then whenever I see a guy beating a woman, I confront about how he's doing the wrong thing.

Does that make me a hypocrite, just because I used to do something that I now see is wrong, I'm not allowed to oppose it?

Addonexus

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Re: Changing Views & Hipocrisy.
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2010, 11:27:48 pm »
Umm, I'd say you have yet to encounter a true christian. As in a christian beeing someone who confess to beliving and following the gospels of the new testament and even though wishing to spread his/her faith would never force it on anyone else and recongnise that the lord is reserving the right to judge for himself alone and thus doesn't pass judgement on their peers either.

Most 'born again christians' are heretics and don't even know it.
*raises hand* you know me emp i'm very non agressive when it comes to religion and i was gonna be a priest at one point but you know the whole gay thing and stone the sinner kicked in so blah oh well :-*

charles

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Re: Changing Views & Hipocrisy.
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2010, 11:34:37 pm »
Is it really hypocrisy if you really changed?

Let's say I am a misogynistic girlfriend-beater. Then one day I realize, "Oh man, this is wrong I can't do this anymore" and stop.

And then whenever I see a guy beating a woman, I confront about how he's doing the wrong thing.

Does that make me a hypocrite, just because I used to do something that I now see is wrong, I'm not allowed to oppose it?

Beautiful example.  I didn't think about the word Hypocrisy too much in this setting but you're right.  I think it would only be hypocritical if they were still doing the same or similar, or if they didn't believe it was wrong when they did it.
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CrystalDragonSpaceMarine

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Re: Changing Views & Hipocrisy.
« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2010, 07:27:56 am »
One of the things most people don't understand about the crazy Christians is they genuinely believe.  Some of them are a bit confused about certain things, but just think, if you believed everyone you cared about was going to hell, you'd probably go to some crazy lengths to save their souls as well. It's fine for seculars and a lot of other religions to say "you do your thing, you do mine" but in Christianity, you can't not preach the gospel. That's a pretty core tenet of the religion.

RoninAngel

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Re: Changing Views & Hipocrisy.
« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2010, 01:38:10 am »
I like Taoism.  :D
It is a religion relatively free from proselytizing or zealotry. But still seems very nice if you are looking for faith-y things.  :D A religion that is mostly concerned with being peaceful and harmonious seems really nice. But then I haven't converted or anything (I've really only read a little bit of the Tao Te Ching,) so this might be from an ignorant base.


If I was going to become a Christian, I think I would try for a denomination more in line with my liberal views, such as Episcopalian or Unitarian (I've Lutherans are okay too but don't quote me on that), so I wouldn't have to worry about reconciling my philosophies ad nauseam.  It's really too bad, in my opinion, when people go looking for faith later in life and get sucked into a Christian denomination that... well... sucks. The born again process is inspiring to a lot of people and I think that's very nice, and faith healing is really cool (when it actually works) so I kinda understand the appeal of many of the southern baptist and/or other fundamentalist churches but their views on everything from homosexuality to women's rights to racism can be quaint at best and virulently intolerant and backward at worst. One of Christianity's main draws is the kindness and generosity it espouses, and to my knowledge, that facet of the faith is lost on most of those churches.
 
« Last Edit: March 06, 2010, 01:45:44 am by RoninAngel »
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Emp_Dragon

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Re: Changing Views & Hipocrisy.
« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2010, 03:35:24 am »
The born again process is inspiring to a lot of people and I think that's very nice, and faith healing is really cool (when it actually works) so I kinda understand the appeal of many of the southern baptist and/or other fundamentalist churches but their views on everything from homosexuality to women's rights to racism can be quaint at best and virulently intolerant and backward at worst. One of Christianity's main draws is the kindness and generosity it espouses, and to my knowledge, that facet of the faith is lost on most of those *churches.

*eg: Heretics


Panda Ponder

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Re: Changing Views & Hipocrisy.
« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2010, 06:14:03 pm »
If people go through trauma and drama outlets are always a good thing... Go through life without drama, trauma or any troubles throughout life you are indeed a VERY lucky person. As far as religion goes I generally associate it with rather negative views and past background; verification of peoples phychosis or for a way to be a nasty piece of work saying 'i'm okay the lord shall forgive me and praise me for the effort and perserverance I show' with a weekly refreshment of the excuse. Weeel, lets just say I'm a fan of the good work in charity, humanitarism, giving people a sense of order and community in their life but as with everything people will use things to whatever whim they choose.

Iam a hypocrite on the opposite side of the coin, I long for the sense of belonging and community within the various religious groups. Though not the militant anti-religious zealot I may have been at times before. I implore understanding and appropriate adaptation to be tolerant of each other and indeed if people find themselves needing the support of a religious community then they should be not afraid to seek that help, ask me to go and there will be a rather heavy lift to drag me along.

Perhaps this is an overly positive view of changing views and the general hypocracy that goes along with it but whilst people cannot come to grips with their own problems and background they just do not want to see others fall into the poor traps they have gotten into even if that comes along with a sense of mental disengagement from reality

Selan

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Re: Changing Views & Hipocrisy.
« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2010, 11:19:38 am »
Changing views is done easily, your view is based on your knowledge.
Your mom was ok with Manson as she had no knowledge about it. Then religion taught her that Manson is a sinner, that changed her knowledge about Manson wich also changed her view on his music.
Something like that.

I changed my views quite a lot in the past it's part of growing up i think.

Hypocracy (WTF SP??) on the otherhand....
It's praying to god during the day while you molest your kid at night.


Changing views is human, hypocracy is evil.


tbeean

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Re: Changing Views & Hipocrisy.
« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2010, 01:09:07 pm »
Hypocracy (WTF SP??) on the otherhand....
It's praying to god during the day while you molest your kid at night.
that's the reason i'm never going to a catholic priest for help  :P

CrystalDragonSpaceMarine

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Re: Changing Views & Hipocrisy.
« Reply #13 on: March 30, 2010, 03:47:05 pm »
Hypocracy (WTF SP??) on the otherhand....
It's praying to god during the day while you molest your kid at night.
that's the reason i'm never going to a catholic priest for help  :P

I'm sure you're old enough to be safe.

Not that I'd seek help from a catholic priest anyway.

Churba

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Re: Changing Views & Hipocrisy.
« Reply #14 on: March 30, 2010, 04:02:30 pm »
Hypocracy (WTF SP??) on the otherhand....
It's praying to god during the day while you molest your kid at night.
that's the reason i'm never going to a catholic priest for help  :P
Hey, some priests are alright. I go down every sunday I can manage, after the services are over to the local church, and hang out with the old Irish Catholic Priest(as in, he's Irish, and Catholic, Not an Irish Catholic) and we sit around, smoke our pipes(I have a giant, foot long churchwarden, amusingly, and he smokes a Sherlock holmes-style Briar), and crack jokes.

CrystalDragonSpaceMarine

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Re: Changing Views & Hipocrisy.
« Reply #15 on: March 30, 2010, 04:52:16 pm »
Oh, sure, an Irish priest. That's like a Viking priest or something.

They don't count.

charles

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Re: Changing Views & Hipocrisy.
« Reply #16 on: March 30, 2010, 05:58:55 pm »
*meh* like any group, and all of humanity, there are bad examples but just as we shouldn't take all, most or even a significant portion of islamists to be radical, suicidal, murderers we shouldn't believe all catholics to be pedophiles or even overly zealous.

You get good ones and bad ones.  Judge the person not the priest.
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Selan

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Re: Changing Views & Hipocrisy.
« Reply #17 on: April 01, 2010, 04:51:19 am »
Hypocracy (WTF SP??) on the otherhand....
It's praying to god during the day while you molest your kid at night.

I wasn't talking about priests here btw.
But about people that have a believe where you shouldn't hurt others and then when they get home rush up to their kids bedroom to get some. Not all people that have a religion do bad stuff to kids and not all people that do bad stuff to kids have a religion.

It was just an example of how i think hypocracy works
« Last Edit: April 01, 2010, 04:54:01 am by Selan »

BeethroBudkin

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Re: Changing Views & Hipocrisy.
« Reply #18 on: April 01, 2010, 02:48:33 pm »
Even though I once was christian, I do not understand their philosophy. From my knowledge, if you believe in Jesus as the lord and savior and you ask for forgiveness for your sins you ascend to heaven, so why do they look at sin with such disgust if you can have a clean slate in moments?

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Re: Changing Views & Hipocrisy.
« Reply #19 on: April 01, 2010, 04:16:41 pm »
Even though I once was christian, I do not understand their philosophy. From my knowledge, if you believe in Jesus as the lord and savior and you ask for forgiveness for your sins you ascend to heaven, so why do they look at sin with such disgust if you can have a clean slate in moments?

It's because the vast majority of Christians are only "Christian" out of conservative values, and do not understand the philosophy themselves.

And the ones that do tend to be wishy-washy on correcting this.

Also, there's the fact that even though you can be forgiven, sin still has consequences (i.e. you might not be damned to hell for it, but other stuff might happen).

To secularize it...let's say you could be forgiven for any crime by doing a certain ritual, and have no punishment for it. Would that make murder or rape any less disgusting even though you could do it, and avoid all punishment for it?

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Re: Changing Views & Hipocrisy.
« Reply #20 on: April 02, 2010, 07:11:56 am »
What CDSM said with addendum: There are also those like me who think the hate-preaching and misinforming neo-con 'christians' has to be excomunicated and banned for heresy.

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Re: Changing Views & Hipocrisy.
« Reply #21 on: April 03, 2010, 06:50:30 am »
I'm sorry, but, people, it's hypocrisy. A hypocrite.

That was all.
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