Author Topic: Chapter 23: Discussion  (Read 109835 times)

RoninAngel

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Re: Chapter 23: Discussion
« Reply #420 on: January 20, 2010, 06:21:17 pm »
I would like to go along with your definition, but doing so muddies up the waters too much.

Say you took dirty pictures of me. And then you told me that you would send them to my dad if I didn't have sex with you. If I complied, would you be a rapist? No, you would not. Because rape requires violence. It the act of taking away someone's sexual freedom through violence or threat of violence. If you raped me, I would feel traumatized not just by your lack of my right to choose but likely more so by your violent attack. If you blackmailed me, I would still be hurt, but less so, because the act itself would likely not be a violent act, because I would likely be somewhat willing participant.

Also, don't forget that Moss is not threatening to do anything to Bernadette himself, just refusing to help Maytag without sex. He never implied that he would hurt Bernadette if May didn't sleep with him. This is an important distinction because unless he actively helped kill Bernadette, he would not be directly responsible for what the Thin Man/Melter did to her.

I would like to add that I respect your opinoin and that you bring up valid points, just not ones that I personally hold to. No matter what we choose to call what Moss is doing, I think both agree it is very very wrong and a likely sign that he has jumped off the deep end from morally ambiguous and distasteful action to unforgivable depravity.  

I got 99 problems but a nymphomaniac jester girl ain't one.

charles

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Re: Chapter 23: Discussion
« Reply #421 on: January 20, 2010, 06:32:18 pm »
Please continue the discussion about rape and consensual sex in the relevant debate topic HERE

I have copied the discussions there.
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Darque

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Re: Chapter 23: Discussion
« Reply #422 on: January 20, 2010, 07:44:30 pm »
Am I the only thinking this could be Fata again?

Or perhaps Moss is just sick of being the only person he knows that May won't sleep with.  :P

The early bird is flying solo and will probably be killed by the earlier cat.

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dg86

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Re: Chapter 23: Discussion
« Reply #423 on: January 20, 2010, 08:05:30 pm »
Am I the only thinking this could be Fata again?



No, no you're not.

Cold turkeys everywhere, indeed.

charles

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Re: Chapter 23: Discussion
« Reply #424 on: January 20, 2010, 08:46:19 pm »
I was thinking that there could be a good chance that Maytag might even kill Moss right then and there, but the promise he's made is to help her AND her friends to escape so unless she's confident she can get the others out without his help she probably won't risk the idea that she can just overpower him or escape herself and get them out.

I'm still a little surprised she's agreed without first prying more information from him on the exact situation They're in.  Personally I think it's the real Moss rather than Fata.  Even if this is another test I doubt Moss would have much trouble agreeing to do the test himself rather than get Fata to make another illusion.

Anyone else notice that Maytag appears to have purged her emotions?  She's wiped her eyes of their tears and looks very focused.  It'll be interesting to see the look in her eyes when she opens them... If it's that predatory look then Moss is dead bloody meat.
CLAN OF THE CATS IS MAKING A COMEBACK! JUNE 8th.  BE THERE!

Foof

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Re: Chapter 23: Discussion
« Reply #425 on: January 21, 2010, 01:22:41 am »
Anyone else notice that Maytag appears to have purged her emotions?  She's wiped her eyes of their tears and looks very focused.  It'll be interesting to see the look in her eyes when she opens them... If it's that predatory look then Moss is dead bloody meat.

Kinda liiiike....

This? http://www.flipsidecomics.com/comic.php?i=317

charles

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Re: Chapter 23: Discussion
« Reply #426 on: January 21, 2010, 02:23:15 am »
@Foof: Exactly.  I'm convinced that Moss is about to get fucked, I'm just not so sure if it's the way he'd like to be  :'(

Meh, it probably will be straight sex.  I can see how that could create new plot points in the story.  Plus I still think Moss is misleading her as to just how much danger they're all in... Then again, if thats the case it could really stir up Danzig if she kills his nephew.
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9_6

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Re: Chapter 23: Discussion
« Reply #427 on: January 21, 2010, 07:20:34 am »
I'm still a little surprised she's agreed without first prying more information from him on the exact situation They're in.
Well, he was about to walk away?

charles

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Re: Chapter 23: Discussion
« Reply #428 on: January 21, 2010, 03:30:50 pm »
Yeah, but she could have done a little more than simply beg him when he was there.  Pry out some information about exactly what they were in for.  Before he shouted out that the Thin Man would be experimenting on them she didn't have much of a clue what was going on.  Only that they were being held against their will.

I guess the illusion of Regina told her that they were doing TESTS on people to help discover the truth about the world but quickly noted that nothing bad would have happened in the bath since Glyph was apparently an illusion.  After that Morgana told her that the others are safe but locked in separate cells and that Maytag might be able to see Bernadette later.

All up, it just feels like Maytag should be making some sort of an effort to find out more.  Maybe play the concerned lover or friend and ask after Bern and the others to at least have an idea of their situation, or even ask Moss how he plans to help her and her friends.  But maybe it comes back to Maytag's admission that she likes disgusting things and that some part of her was actually wants to have sex with Moss and is even happy that she has an excuse to break her promise, thus she's not doing EVERYTHING she can to avoid having sex with Moss.

I'm sure many here are going to start screaming at me about how all women are NOT secretly happy to be raped or forced into sex but I'm just throwing out ideas and theories based on Maytag herself here.
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akashayi

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Re: Chapter 23: Discussion
« Reply #429 on: January 21, 2010, 04:00:53 pm »
I don't know. I think it's something born out of actually loving someone.

breaking trust/possibly giving up your ability to be with someone to spare their lives or from something worse than death (i.e. bloody mary).

CrystalDragonSpaceMarine

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Re: Chapter 23: Discussion
« Reply #430 on: January 21, 2010, 04:11:59 pm »
I think if May were looking for an excuse, she wouldn't have hesitated.

charles

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Re: Chapter 23: Discussion
« Reply #431 on: January 21, 2010, 04:37:15 pm »
@CDSM: Don't be so sure. As confident and certain in life as Maytag appears she is confused about exactly what she wants and may still be controlled by her subconscious to do certain things despite what she may state consciously under a truth spell.

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CrystalDragonSpaceMarine

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Re: Chapter 23: Discussion
« Reply #432 on: January 21, 2010, 04:44:34 pm »
@CDSM: Don't be so sure. As confident and certain in life as Maytag appears she is confused about exactly what she wants and may still be controlled by her subconscious to do certain things despite what she may state consciously under a truth spell.

I think that's reading too much into it. Even if it was a "subconscious" thing, I don't it weighs in that much on her decision here, which is obviously her desperation over getting out.

charles

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Re: Chapter 23: Discussion
« Reply #433 on: January 21, 2010, 05:09:56 pm »
*lol* yeah, I'm almost certainly reaching too far on that possibility.  I just think there's a few discrepancies between what Moss is saying and what we've heard from Danzig in regards to "recruits" and that Maytag really isn't doing much to delve into discovering the exact situation they're all in before agreeing to Moss' conditions.

I actually still like the Idea that Maytag is about to outright kill Moss.  I don't think she's killed anyone in a while so it'll probably be a fairly big shock.  Plus it could disrupt things as badly as her breaking her promise to Bernadette considering the likely reaction from his uncle Danzig.
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akashayi

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Re: Chapter 23: Discussion
« Reply #434 on: January 21, 2010, 05:11:59 pm »
Since I'm fairly certain his uncle Danzig is responsible for him growing up cursed thanks to his experiments, and is using him in the 'family business', I don't think it'd be nearly as big a disruption as all that.

charles

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Re: Chapter 23: Discussion
« Reply #435 on: January 21, 2010, 05:12:42 pm »
Yeah, much better to attack the relationship side of things.
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Kiran

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Re: Chapter 23: Discussion
« Reply #436 on: January 21, 2010, 05:14:02 pm »
Well didn't May have an occasion to sleep with Moss earlier?

She just didn't find him interesting enough to do it with, if she would old May would do that without blink of an eye.

Here she is just forced without much choice, if she won't sleep with him Bern and other will suffer and will end in the same or worse fate than Bloody Mary, and that's only what May knows currently.

Still she could outsmart him, even by extreme means like biting of his penis if needed ;)

But I really doubt May is so cold blooded to hurt another person over thing like this if he indeed would help them.

Still if Moss would not help her after this or all of this was just some kind of jerking/joke from his side he needs to be put to sleep either by May or Bernadette.

charles

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Re: Chapter 23: Discussion
« Reply #437 on: January 21, 2010, 05:25:28 pm »
From what I recall I think we eventually worked out that Maytag didn't sleep with him because it was likely that he'd tell Bern.  It was sort of hinted at by Maytag in an interview but the relationship between her and Bern didn't come out 'till later so she couldn't tell us outright.  I think either Brion confirmed it in the old forums at some point or Maytag told the whole story in an Ask Maytag vote incentive.
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Furcas

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Re: Chapter 23: Discussion
« Reply #438 on: January 21, 2010, 07:12:00 pm »
From what I recall I think we eventually worked out that Maytag didn't sleep with him because it was likely that he'd tell Bern.  It was sort of hinted at by Maytag in an interview but the relationship between her and Bern didn't come out 'till later so she couldn't tell us outright.  I think either Brion confirmed it in the old forums at some point or Maytag told the whole story in an Ask Maytag vote incentive.


Brion confirmed it here: http://www.flipsidecomics.com/forum/index.php?topic=134.0


charles

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Re: Chapter 23: Discussion
« Reply #439 on: January 21, 2010, 08:07:04 pm »
Ahh yep,  I remember that now.

Also brings me back to this old question of mine which seems to have been answered now.

I often wonder how friendly they'll be when/if they meet up again in the comic.
CLAN OF THE CATS IS MAKING A COMEBACK! JUNE 8th.  BE THERE!

CrystalDragonSpaceMarine

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Re: Chapter 23: Discussion
« Reply #440 on: January 21, 2010, 08:52:53 pm »
You know, I know a lot of people that were all like "I can't wait for Moss to show up again!" and "Yeah Moss!" when he did.
But now he's going less from of a "Cute Emo Sadist Guy" to a "Complete Prick", and isn't getting so much love now.

Azure Priest

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Re: Chapter 23: Discussion
« Reply #441 on: January 22, 2010, 05:53:59 am »
I pity Maytag right now. I think she's going to get screwed in more ways than one.

RoninAngel

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Re: Chapter 23: Discussion
« Reply #442 on: January 22, 2010, 07:35:35 am »
You know, I know a lot of people that were all like "I can't wait for Moss to show up again!" and "Yeah Moss!" when he did.
But now he's going less from of a "Cute Emo Sadist Guy" to a "Complete Prick", and isn't getting so much love now.

I never got this "Moss is okay" sentiment. Probably because I have only read half of book zero, but he seems like a dick in his questionare and all of his appearances this arch. Some folks just like antisocial jerkasses I guess. I only like charming antisocial jerkasses.  :D
I got 99 problems but a nymphomaniac jester girl ain't one.

CrystalDragonSpaceMarine

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Re: Chapter 23: Discussion
« Reply #443 on: January 22, 2010, 08:25:23 am »
I never got this "Moss is okay" sentiment. Probably because I have only read half of book zero, but he seems like a dick in his questionare and all of his appearances this arch. Some folks just like antisocial jerkasses I guess. I only like charming antisocial jerkasses.  :D

I think people forgot he tortured May for no reason.
Or maybe cuz they're all trying to be like May and see the good in people.

That Maytag. Always making us thinking more openly and positively about the world.

RoninAngel

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Re: Chapter 23: Discussion
« Reply #444 on: January 22, 2010, 09:30:14 am »
I just hate him because he looks too much like crest.  :P
I got 99 problems but a nymphomaniac jester girl ain't one.

Kiran

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Re: Chapter 23: Discussion
« Reply #445 on: January 22, 2010, 10:32:26 am »
Eh, that's one of the results I didn't even considered to happen, that he would jerk her off and stop satisfied with winning and knowing her real weakness.

Good one Brion.

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Re: Chapter 23: Discussion
« Reply #446 on: January 22, 2010, 11:11:18 am »
he seems like a dick
That describes him pretty well.

CrystalDragonSpaceMarine

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Re: Chapter 23: Discussion
« Reply #447 on: January 22, 2010, 11:19:41 am »
Heh. Such style.

Dragonizer

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Re: Chapter 23: Discussion
« Reply #448 on: January 22, 2010, 01:48:28 pm »
Oh what the hell, Moss.

Darque

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Re: Chapter 23: Discussion
« Reply #449 on: January 22, 2010, 02:07:46 pm »
If it turns out that May knew that Moss was bluffing, and played along to give him what he wanted so he would help her, thus meaning that in truth nothing really does bother her, I'm gonna blow a gasket.  I hate invulnerable characters.

The early bird is flying solo and will probably be killed by the earlier cat.

Confidence is that warm, fuzzy feeling you get before you comprehend the situation.