Chapter 20: Discussion (Part 2)

[Bernadette]

I most certainly do not!

[erana]

In my humble opinion, this strip is the definitive tip that Bern knew everything that was happening around her (plus WHY it was happening) all along:

http://www.flipsidecomics.com/comic.php?i=619

C'mon! Bern is the stated mistress of the art of checking out the whole of a situation in a single glance, and you folks are so surprised she was able to outwit Maytag's attempts to outwit her?

Last panel is, in a very subtle way, truly Bern's finest moment.

[UmberIsSexy]

(shakes head in shame at Ronin's post)

Seriously.

alright guys get off of Ronin.  Everybody loves fanservice except possibly you two.  Sheesh, puritans.

anyway it seems condescending to feel ashamed at what someone who is not you says.  It sounds like you're the boss of them and what they say reflects on you.[/rant] sorry.  ronin probably didn't give a crap, but I got defensive.

also: it has been mentioned that there isn't enough Male fanservice...is that the problem?

Welcome to the forums Bernadette!  And erana!

edit: Bern is winning such major points with me right now.  Like superhuman points.  If only people were like this on Earth..she may have handled this in the best way possible I think, with a view towards the long term health of the relationship.   

[LordKaT]

I most certainly do not!

wat

[Razzly]

I most certainly do not!

wat

I second this.

Also: BECAUSE, Crest, she wanted Maytag to confess by herself of course. Either that, or she wasn't 100% sure and didn't want to come across as overly jealous and restricting to Maytag.

That's what I think.
On another note, Bern is my hero. <3

[erana]

"Do you think I'm a fool? I've been with you for three and a half years, now..."

It seems my deductions were accurate 

Bernadette knew simply because she's Bernadette, and knowing everything that happens around her is what she does.
Has not been a plot twist, has been character definition.

[charles]

@Bernadette: So you don't read the comic... You just read the forums .  Well we don't think you're a fool Bern.

I do like that old pic of Bern.  Can't say why *shrug*

hmmmmm. Maytag's not a child ANY MORE.

[Mirasaros]

Bernadette IS crazy awesome. <33333

I have to say that this and last week were the weeks where I was checking everyday to see the updates or to check if by any chance there was an extra page up. xDD

It didn't come out quite like I'd imagined, but that doesn't mean it's not good.

Also- is this the place to put this?- there's a typo in the last panel where Crest is talking. It's "something" not "soemthing."

[Admiral Apocolypto]

Like Bern said, she knew Maytag well enough to realize that Maytag loved her, and would eventually learn to appreciate Bern's view.  I don't think she had that with her old girlfriend, and the cheating in that case was merely an excuse to end what was already over.

And Umber, ha, damn, when did you start taking me seriously?  I've got nothing against fanservice if it's not annoyingly obvious about it (cough Glyph's "special" eyepiece cough).

And yeah, Mira, this is where you point it out, Brion checks this thread and will fix it.

[tomaO2]

I don't believe this for a second. Common guys, am I the only one that doesn't trust the direction of where this chapter seems to be heading? Notice that no specifics have been given as to how often Maytag has cheated or who she cheated with. It feels like a set up for a misunderstanding. This is classic writing for that style of situation, almost cliche.

My opinion? Bern thinks Maytag cheated with CREST!

She doesn't know anything about all the times Maytag has cheated on her because Maytag is an excellent lier. Crest, on the other hand, is not. Bern noticed how oddly Crest has been acting. How Crest jumped in to try and stop Susperia from asking a question. Maybe even the the note passing (especially assuming that the interlude where Crest ate the note was cannon). She knew they spent some time together, alone. She knows Crest has/had a cush on Maytag. She must have wondered why Crest was at the door, peeping on them before Orsong caught him.

This is the lesbian reveal all over again, in that it's going to be a suprise and there was a lot of planning beforehand. Brion has been setting this up for a long time and we now are about to be hit with the big reveal.

Besides, there is nothing I have seen in Bern's personality that says to me that she would be okay with being cheated on, multiple times but she could if she thought it was just once, and thus an aberration.

PS. I like the author's reply, "Yep, it sure was." So delightfully ambiguous. Yes it WAS planned but he says nothing on whether or not about how Bern "knew" about it. Cause he can't.

Same deal for, "because it makes my traffic go up?" He's not giving a definitive statement, one way or the other, he's just letting you guys assume what you think you aready know.

[Kiran]

Well,we know May cheated few times with Umber and her boyfriend for sure.
Maybe Umber told Bern.

[RoninAngel]

(shakes head in shame at Ronin's post)

Seriously.

alright guys get off of Ronin.  Everybody loves fanservice except possibly you two.  Sheesh, puritans.

anyway it seems condescending to feel ashamed at what someone who is not you says.  It sounds like you're the boss of them and what they say reflects on you.[/rant] sorry.  ronin probably didn't give a crap, but I got defensive.

also: it has been mentioned that there isn't enough Male fanservice...is that the problem?

Welcome to the forums Bernadette!  And erana!

edit: Bern is winning such major points with me right now.  Like superhuman points.  If only people were like this on Earth..she may have handled this in the best way possible I think, with a view towards the long term health of the relationship.   

Your so sweet! 
Thanks for backing me up! 
(as far as the male fanservice, I don't have much to say about it, because I like muscles and muscles don't translate well to manga. Occupational hazard.

I am usuallly kind of annoyed with Bernedette's relationship style.  But I agree, she is scoring major points here. I like how levelheaded and forgiving she's being.

Yay! Bernedette. 

[UmberIsSexy]

And Umber, ha, damn, when did you start taking me seriously?  I've got nothing against fanservice if it's not annoyingly obvious about it (cough Glyph's "special" eyepiece cough).

yeah I realized you might be kidding immediately after.  I thought about editing my post but thought I'd give you guys the chance to go "Ha yeah right Umber, IDIOT."  Hard to know with you sometimes...maybe I'll get it after a while.

disagree about the eyepiece though, I loved that.  I mean, hey, this is fiction here, we're allowed to have fun with it!  edit2: also, it allowed for what I thought was a very touching portrait of Bern (though touching isn't the right word...beautiful maybe?), and Maytag was no less striking.  Just seeing them completely naked while they didn't know they were being seen that way...while they were kind of lost in their thoughts.  Plus I just loved that pervy little "Plip" as Glyph switched the thing on. 

edit: @Ronin: the part about the male fanservice was actually supposed to be a dig at Sieck, and at Deatzh if she wanted it...sorry! : P (just seeing if I could rile people up *evil devil smiley*)

[Xshu]

My opinion? Bern thinks Maytag cheated with CREST!

That wouldn't really fit the "you're not a child anymore" line of thought, in my opinion. If she were cheating with Crest, this would have been something she'd done less than a week ago. Also, Crest got pretty defensive of Bern when Orransong started lecturing her. If he were with Maytag, wouldn't he have kept quiet and hoped for a breakup?

DBZ anyone?  Manly-looking men can exist in the style.

Dragon Ball Z is not exactly known for its pretty art. 

Also: Everyone's jumping on the Bern train now! Woot woot! All aboard!

I have surprisingly little to say, otherwise.

[UmberIsSexy]

I'm actually surprised there aren't some people flipping out that Bern knew and hasn't taken May to task.

[LordKaT]

I'm actually surprised there aren't some people flipping out that Bern knew and hasn't taken May to task.

I'm still confused as to why we haven't had any lesbian sex scenes in almost two years.

[charles]

@LordKat: *spits coffee across monitor*. But heck, Amen to that *PMSL*

Personally, I think Bern knows or suspects all.  She's stated that she knows Maytag, and with the story of how they met plus the admission by Maytag at that point stating she was scum and Bern would one-day think so too.  Granted, she might not know of EVERY incident, but she's probably directly aware of a number of occasions and suspects a good more, but she knows Maytag loves her. The will to cut herself to ribbons to save Bern and her thanks to Suspira for saving Bern proved that. Then Bern let go of her own conflicts with becoming a knight to finally come out and commit to Maytag.

I doubt there's any single moment of realisation as much as there's probably just her always knowing.  Considering Maytag's so good at reading people, I think she simply wanted to believe so bad that she was getting away with it and not hurting Bern that she mentally blocked out the signs.

SIDE NOTE: Considering all it's lead to, I think Glyph's eye piece was necessary.  It let the discussion between Bern and Maytag about everyone having permission start and it Let Bern really rip in to sorcerers abusing their power.

[Xshu]

This certainly gives Bern a good reason to have been so curt to May and Britannus. I mean, besides how much of an ass he was being.

It also explains why Bern was so vague and smirky in her last interview when someone asked if she thought May was the type to cheat on her.

[charles]

Ebon of Haint: Hello Bernadette. You're lovely, and so is Maytag. You're very lucky. But haven't you ever suspected her as the kind of person to cheat on you? You seem to give her a lot of blind trust. What about her intrigues you so much that you gave up your dreams for her?

Thank you, but... I don't really feel comfortable talking about that subject.

hmmm, it would be interesting to hear her response now, but I suspect we're about to hear it in the comic anyway.

I wonder if there's anything to note in the face she made to that question.  The name is "eyes left"

[UmberIsSexy]

So to Deatzh re: fanservice and stuff.

Well, so one of you was serious.  So then I'm glad I made my earlier comments.  In my view, it's a free forum.  People should feel free to say whatever they want, within sensible reason.  That's all.  Also disagree with your take on fanservice.  It certainly can be done in poor taste, and not add much to a comic, or even detract from it (I definitely have comics I feel that way about) but I think Flipside's is particularly tasteful.  Maytag's boobs are too big, but not nearly as bad as at least one of Kin's drawings..well I'm ok with that though.  Maytag is meant to be a hottie in an anime-ish world of generally good looking people.  But what I mean is that Flipside's fanservice, if you can call it such, is for the most part pretty darn artistic, and I generally find it very intriguing to look at.  It also adds something to what's going on in the story in my view, even if just by evoking a feeling.  Nakedness brings another element into the way you're seeing the character at that moment, and the way other characters are seeing them too.  It's like, representative of something or other, and stuff.  I dunno, but I like it.

but we can disagree of course, and that's fine!  just wanted to state my opinion.

also: I love it when charles does our research for us..  well Xshu too, in this case.

I also can't wait to see what's happening next here, and where the story's going next.  This has been a very interesting portion of the comic since they got in the carriage.  I didn't really expect it.  -to be so good I mean!

[charles]

*meh* if I was serious I'd be going through Book 0... Well, I already had a little look through it, but just a quick scan for the general knowledge of the conversation at the Camp with Moss and Regina, plus the fight they had before the Maw showed up.  If I dig deeper, I'd probably see far more hints, but suffice to say that one thing really struck me when looking through Book 0... Maytag really has grown up.  I found her early wearing of the Jester suit made her act quite childish, but not so much since Book 1 (6 months later).

There's a heap of other interesting things to see in the interviews and even the notebook.  Bern hasn't revealed much of her past, she's ashamed of something in her past and she's been drinking since she was quite young.  She also avoided the question on if she's ever had sex with a man, but that might be simply because she hadn't revealed her sexuality at that point.

@umberissexy: and thanks for your PM to me.  Yeah I thought the response fit nicely *lol*.

[Admiral Apocolypto]

I wonder if there's anything to note in the face she made to that question.  The name is "eyes left"

But...her eyes are pointing to her right...I'm so confused...

So to Deatzh re: fanservice and stuff.

Well, so one of you was serious.

Well, here's the thing.  I was kidding of course about "shaming" Ronin.  He wants boobies, nothing wrong with that.  But I do agree that fanservice should not get in the way of actual plot.

[Razzly]

If I dig deeper, I'd probably see far more hints, but suffice to say that one thing really struck me when looking through Book 0... Maytag really has grown up. 

Really? And here I was of the opinion that Maytag handled things much better in book 0. To me it seems like she's at her most childish -now-. Or, not now, but during these latest story arcs.

About fanservice: I agree with most here that it should never get in the way of the plot, or become the main point of a comic (read: Love Hina, and that one samurai manga which name I've forgotten...) but every now and then, it's absolutely fine.

Even though I -still- miss male fanservice. Ahem.

[UmberIsSexy]

see?  told ya.  Male fanservice badly needed!  (for females, that is!)

@Admiral: well does it get in the way in Flipside, you think?

@charles: well, I lol'd, and wanted to acknowledge it!

[charles]

When was the last time you remember her REALLY playing out in her Jester suit?  She's been very serious of late.  Even the jokes she made with Mary in the cave.

In the old book I found her willing to shout out something obnoxious at any moment.  She even let the guys she was flirting with get close to Bern and she took them to places like the aslyum where she had them get into bar fights and sword matches with assassins.  I'm not sure she was convinced that her relationship with Bern was as strong as she thought... Until Bern walked through the portal for her: http://www.flipsidecomics.com/comic/book0/fs26pg36.html

[Razzly]

When was the last time you remember her REALLY playing out in her Jester suit?  She's been very serious of late.  Even the jokes she made with Mary in the cave.

In the old book I found her willing to shout out something obnoxious at any moment.  She even let the guys she was flirting with get close to Bern and she took them to places like the aslyum where she had them get into bar fights and sword matches with assassins.  I'm not sure she was convinced that her relationship with Bern was as strong as she thought... Until Bern walked through the portal for her: http://www.flipsidecomics.com/comic/book0/fs26pg36.html

Maybe you're right about that, but I found that fun, and cute! Not only that, but in book zero Maytag was always genuinely sympathetic. All those scenes with Regina for example, Maytag was always wonderful in those. ( http://www.flipsidecomics.com/comic/book0/fs26pg23.html for example)
 In the newer chapters she seems more fake than fun. Might just be the situations and issues with Bernadette of  course, but I'd like to see some of that old May.

[UmberIsSexy]

interesting take...so committing to the relationship has taken all the fun out of her?  I have that feeling sometimes...

I meant to say that I do wonder the status of her "split personality".  She doesn't seem to be as different between the two to me the last few times she's been out of the suit.  Perhaps that's part of the growing up she's done as well.

the scenes with Regina were great...

[Razzly]

interesting take...so committing to the relationship has taken all the fun out of her?  I have that feeling sometimes...

No no, not what I meant at all. I think them committing is great - I'm talking about the good jokes, the being-genuinely-interested-in-others and sympathetic-bits.

[charles]

I think Bern has inspired Maytag to become a more responsible member of the community and I like to think that Maytag has inspired Bern to loosen the stick up her arse. 


jking

[RoninAngel]

I'd prefer not to have stupid fanservice in place of a legitimate comic.  Thanks.  Ronin's fanservice requests after every single page update are annoying me.  (At the point that it is a joke: it's terribly worn out.)  Also, muscle and anime?  DBZ anyone?  Manly-looking men can exist in the style.

Last panel: "Soemthing"  Sorry if it's been mentioned.

Yay, it's Wednesday, new page, still find Bernadette to be awesome.

Geez! Relax! Someone woke up on the wrong side of the habitat! 

So I like watching chicks make out! Let he who doesn't read Flipside cast the first stone! 

And as far as muscle conversation is concerned. Manga  is good at
portraying this...

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b189/kaykay007/Fruits_Basket___Androgyny_by_Kartoo.jpg

http://www.zoejaremus.com/images/androgyny/9_and_large.jpg

But not as good at portraying this...
http://www.shutterstock.com/pic-3008934-b-w-young-sporty-man-over-black-background.html