Author Topic: Shrink's sofa  (Read 60486 times)

UmberIsSexy

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Re: Shrink's sofa
« Reply #210 on: January 11, 2010, 08:33:08 am »
@CDSM: So who are you?  Is it different from who you want to be?
That is a hell of a question right there.  By which I mean an extremely powerful question, if one takes it seriously.

@RoninAngel: *lol* you can read it all from my second post in this page of the thread onwards.

It started with me being significantly abused verbally and emotionally by her over a year ago and now it pretty much boils down to me being unhappy in the relationship and feeling unloved.  I don't think I've really felt loved or happy in it for over 5 years.  If it was something definitive like cheating then I may have broken it off immediately, but the truth is she changed, or rather, became the person she really was sometime after we married and I've stayed in for many years in the hope that it was something she'd snap out of or that if our circumstances changed (such as having children) then it would become something that made me happy again.

But I've come to the conclusion that children aren't going to change this at all and that I've been in love with the memory of a lie for all these years.  I've stopped believing that I need to hold out for her to return to who I fell in love with and I've stopped believing that me loving someone or simply being in a relationship is enough.

Where you are now is an extremely healthy place.  Please don't lose that mindset, for whatever reason.  You don't sound like you're about to, but children, for example, is one thing that would definitely cloud the issues here, and you happen to be seeing them very clearly right now imo.

@CDSM: So who are you?  Is it different from who you want to be?

Eh, I dunno.

I'm just sick of feeling like I have to feel out of place because no one I meet shares my views, values, or interests.
But the question is about You.  The answer is that you don't really want to be what you think you are, or else you wouldn't be constantly meeting/sticking with people who do not meet your expectations.  You truly, deeply, want to be more like them, whether for good reasons or for bad (need-based).

And yes, I am going all psychological on you.  Sorry about that!
« Last Edit: January 11, 2010, 08:40:03 am by UmberIsSexy »

CrystalDragonSpaceMarine

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Re: Shrink's sofa
« Reply #211 on: January 11, 2010, 08:56:30 am »
@CDSM: so what are those view, values and interests (high-level, roughly)

You know, I'm not at all sure. But I can tell you it's "not anything I've heard of".

I miss not having anyone who is into art or writing like I am. That's one of the big things. No one in real life I can chat with about creativity.

@CDSM: So who are you?  Is it different from who you want to be?
That is a hell of a question right there.  By which I mean an extremely powerful question, if one takes it seriously.



But the question is about You.  The answer is that you don't really want to be what you think you are, or else you wouldn't be constantly meeting/sticking with people who do not meet your expectations.  You truly, deeply, want to be more like them, whether for good reasons or for bad (need-based).

And yes, I am going all psychological on you.  Sorry about that!

Well...I guess my deal is I grew up having a picture of friendship heavily covered by works of fiction where the "Power of Friendship" was a big deal.
And I lived my life obsessed with the dream of having a close-knit "crew" with whom I could share mutual trust, love, and support.

And I guess I'm distraught because a lot of people are just looking for someone to party with, and I need more from friendship than that.
I don't know.
Maybe I'm just really confused over the whole thing.

UmberIsSexy

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Re: Shrink's sofa
« Reply #212 on: January 11, 2010, 09:00:19 am »
so if you want to take it to that level, then it becomes about owning your personal power, to which end the question charles asked is central.

all great people own a great degree of their personal power.  People magnetize and change to become more like their wishes and dreams, rather than the other way around.

Of course, this opens up a whole 'nuther can of worms.

..but there's a lot of stages between here and there.

CrystalDragonSpaceMarine

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Re: Shrink's sofa
« Reply #213 on: January 11, 2010, 09:06:13 am »
So...is there a practical approach to this, or...?

Because the phrase "owning your personal power" doesn't really make any sense to me.

UmberIsSexy

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Re: Shrink's sofa
« Reply #214 on: January 11, 2010, 10:02:06 am »
So...is there a practical approach to this, or...?

Because the phrase "owning your personal power" doesn't really make any sense to me.
really?  Um, I was trying to say that if you are what you want to be and other people are attracted to that and change to match what you're putting out there, (and/or you end up meeting and hanging out with different folk) then you are...well you're sort of putting your foot down about what you are and what your life is about, rather than letting society around you dictate what you are, or working towards fitting in somehow (which can, however, also be beneficial in some cases).  All great people do this, which can be stated as "going against all odds" or etc, etc.

And what I meant by "opening another can of worms" is that this is really a whole different thing than trying to sort out your own life, but in truth going towards this ideal in small steps can be really helpful...

Does that make any more sense?
« Last Edit: January 11, 2010, 10:10:43 am by UmberIsSexy »

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Re: Shrink's sofa
« Reply #215 on: January 11, 2010, 10:04:14 am »
In other words, give less of a shit about what the people around you are thinking, and much more of one about what you yourself are thinking, and then wait for those around you to catch up (or fall behind).
« Last Edit: January 11, 2010, 10:09:34 am by UmberIsSexy »

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Re: Shrink's sofa
« Reply #216 on: January 11, 2010, 10:07:45 am »
sorry-I'm kind of buzzed, so if I'm not making any sense at all that's pretty understandable.

but I swear to goodness I am actually saying something here.

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Re: Shrink's sofa
« Reply #217 on: January 11, 2010, 10:31:13 am »
really?  Um, I was trying to say that if you are what you want to be and other people are attracted to that and change to match what you're putting out there, (and/or you end up meeting and hanging out with different folk) then you are...well you're sort of putting your foot down about what you are and what your life is about, rather than letting society around you dictate what you are, or working towards fitting in somehow (which can, however, also be beneficial in some cases).  All great people do this, which can be stated as "going against all odds" or etc, etc.

And what I meant by "opening another can of worms" is that this is really a whole different thing than trying to sort out your own life, but in truth going towards this ideal in small steps can be really helpful...

Does that make any more sense?

I suppose.

In other words, give less of a shit about what the people around you are thinking, and much more of one about what you yourself are thinking, and then wait for those around you to catch up (or fall behind).

Like this poster?


UmberIsSexy

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Re: Shrink's sofa
« Reply #218 on: January 11, 2010, 11:17:18 am »
Exactly!!

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Re: Shrink's sofa
« Reply #219 on: January 11, 2010, 11:20:10 am »
or I prefer this approach:

"Don't let the bastards grind you down."
What good is dreaming it if you don't actually do it?.

CrystalDragonSpaceMarine

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Re: Shrink's sofa
« Reply #220 on: January 11, 2010, 12:28:58 pm »
Well, I'll try what you say.

We'll see if it gets any results.

charles

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Re: Shrink's sofa
« Reply #221 on: January 11, 2010, 05:16:20 pm »
@RoninAngel: *lol* you can read it all from my second post in this page of the thread onwards.

It started with me being significantly abused verbally and emotionally by her over a year ago and now it pretty much boils down to me being unhappy in the relationship and feeling unloved.  I don't think I've really felt loved or happy in it for over 5 years.  If it was something definitive like cheating then I may have broken it off immediately, but the truth is she changed, or rather, became the person she really was sometime after we married and I've stayed in for many years in the hope that it was something she'd snap out of or that if our circumstances changed (such as having children) then it would become something that made me happy again.

But I've come to the conclusion that children aren't going to change this at all and that I've been in love with the memory of a lie for all these years.  I've stopped believing that I need to hold out for her to return to who I fell in love with and I've stopped believing that me loving someone or simply being in a relationship is enough.

Where you are now is an extremely healthy place.  Please don't lose that mindset, for whatever reason.  You don't sound like you're about to, but children, for example, is one thing that would definitely cloud the issues here, and you happen to be seeing them very clearly right now imo.

When we first separated over a year ago she became convinced that we just needed to have children and that would solve everything.  Heck, I thought the same, it made sense from what I thought and believed back then as we were pretty sure that most of the stress was from her job and if she quit that and became a stay-at-home mum then she'd loose all the stress.  But I'm certainly glad it never happened as I'm now finally aware that the issues run deeper than her job and kids would certainly only complicate things.

But yeah, I'm happy with where we're at in sorting this out one way or another.  Actually she's made some action in the last 24 hours and suddenly shown some romance and affection again after over a month of almost nothing.  Guess she's decided this marriage might be worth saving after all.  I won't count my chicken's before they've hatched but progress is progress and if this marriage can turn back into something that brings happiness to my life then I'm not gonna run for the sake of running.


@CDSM:  Heh, yep UIS has pretty much got it.  I suppose flipside actually made the same point when Maytag was talking to Bloody Mary about how she'd given Melter the power to define who she was.

The Psyches often talk about who you really are and who you present to others.  We all adjust ourselves to at least a small extent around different people and groups.  Sort of making a compromise on our personality to fit in a little better.  But any work we make on ourselves to be someone we're not is stressful and the more we compromise or alter about ourselves the more stress we feel as we try to keep up the mask.  If we put too much weight on people's opinions we give up more of who we are and become more of who we want them to think we are or who they think you are.

At the same time, don't ever believe that you can't completely change who you are if you want to.  The depressed can turn themselves around and find optimism and joy, the lazy wet-blankets can find the drive to (as Nike say) just do it.  Someone addicted to drugs can find the will to break their addiction and overcome pressure and urges to return to it.

Why can that work and why is that alright?  Because it's not others who are defining you but you who are defining yourself.

On your "power of friendship" ideal... Damn I think you're on to something there.  I had the same problem and still do to a small extent.  Curse the Lord of the bloody Rings and the fellowship between Frodo and Sam! *lol* It's as bad as those air-brushed model magazines setting unrealistic expectations or standards.
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CrystalDragonSpaceMarine

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Re: Shrink's sofa
« Reply #222 on: January 11, 2010, 06:34:24 pm »
@CDSM:  Heh, yep UIS has pretty much got it.  I suppose flipside actually made the same point when Maytag was talking to Bloody Mary about how she'd given Melter the power to define who she was.

The Psyches often talk about who you really are and who you present to others.  We all adjust ourselves to at least a small extent around different people and groups.  Sort of making a compromise on our personality to fit in a little better.  But any work we make on ourselves to be someone we're not is stressful and the more we compromise or alter about ourselves the more stress we feel as we try to keep up the mask.  If we put too much weight on people's opinions we give up more of who we are and become more of who we want them to think we are or who they think you are.

At the same time, don't ever believe that you can't completely change who you are if you want to.  The depressed can turn themselves around and find optimism and joy, the lazy wet-blankets can find the drive to (as Nike say) just do it.  Someone addicted to drugs can find the will to break their addiction and overcome pressure and urges to return to it.

Why can that work and why is that alright?  Because it's not others who are defining you but you who are defining yourself.

Yeah, I see all that.
Part of my issues is that, I force myself into social contact simply to force myself into social contact to avoid being a complete loner (which I'd possibly be slightly happier with at the moment, though possibly not in the long run). I'd much rather stay at home and read a book than socialize, and I think that boredom shows through and turns people off to me.


Quote
On your "power of friendship" ideal... Damn I think you're on to something there.  I had the same problem and still do to a small extent.  Curse the Lord of the bloody Rings and the fellowship between Frodo and Sam! *lol* It's as bad as those air-brushed model magazines setting unrealistic expectations or standards.

The main difference here (and indeed, the difference between expectations for relationships and expectations for physical reality) is that those kinds of relationships are entirely possible, if people would choose to let them be. Which is why I always make an effort to be that kind of friend, because if I don't, how else will anyone believe it's possible?

charles

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Re: Shrink's sofa
« Reply #223 on: January 11, 2010, 07:34:42 pm »
Quote
On your "power of friendship" ideal... Damn I think you're on to something there.  I had the same problem and still do to a small extent.  Curse the Lord of the bloody Rings and the fellowship between Frodo and Sam! *lol* It's as bad as those air-brushed model magazines setting unrealistic expectations or standards.

The main difference here (and indeed, the difference between expectations for relationships and expectations for physical reality) is that those kinds of relationships are entirely possible, if people would choose to let them be. Which is why I always make an effort to be that kind of friend, because if I don't, how else will anyone believe it's possible?

Oh hell yeah. I'm that close with a couple of old mates who I've known since high-school and even Primary school (My groomsmen actually).  The kind of blokes I'd give $1000+ to if they were in need and who I know would do the same for me in a time of need, etc.  Hell, the kinds of blokes who'd drive 8 hours to visit you in a time of emotional crisis and who you'd be comfortable talking to about such things.

I think it's more that we need to understand that not all friendships will, can or need to be at that level.  You get mates who you get along with at work but would hardly ever contact outside work hours and who you'd probably loose touch with if either of you changed jobs.  You get mates you share a common interest with that you get together with for activities relating to the interest (sports, games, hobbies), but who you probably wouldn't get together with otherwise. You get mates who you'd invite 'round or get together with for lunch or a movie, etc but probably wouldn't share your marital issues with.  Granted, many of those may become those very close friends that you treasure in your life, but it's no big worry if they don't.

Heh, I'm reminded of the old saying: "A good friend will bail you out of jail, but a true friend will be sat next to you in the cell"
CLAN OF THE CATS IS MAKING A COMEBACK! JUNE 8th.  BE THERE!

CrystalDragonSpaceMarine

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Re: Shrink's sofa
« Reply #224 on: January 11, 2010, 08:57:32 pm »
Oh hell yeah. I'm that close with a couple of old mates who I've known since high-school and even Primary school (My groomsmen actually).  The kind of blokes I'd give $1000+ to if they were in need and who I know would do the same for me in a time of need, etc.  Hell, the kinds of blokes who'd drive 8 hours to visit you in a time of emotional crisis and who you'd be comfortable talking to about such things.

I think it's more that we need to understand that not all friendships will, can or need to be at that level.  You get mates who you get along with at work but would hardly ever contact outside work hours and who you'd probably loose touch with if either of you changed jobs.  You get mates you share a common interest with that you get together with for activities relating to the interest (sports, games, hobbies), but who you probably wouldn't get together with otherwise. You get mates who you'd invite 'round or get together with for lunch or a movie, etc but probably wouldn't share your marital issues with.  Granted, many of those may become those very close friends that you treasure in your life, but it's no big worry if they don't.

Yeah. I don't need every friend for that, though, I just need one. The fact I don't have that one hurts the rest of my friendships due to the bitterness of needing more and not getting it.

I need a Watson to my Sherlock Holmes!


Quote
Heh, I'm reminded of the old saying: "A good friend will bail you out of jail, but a true friend will be sat next to you in the cell"

And the truest friends steal a helicopter and bust you out of prison.

charles

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Re: Shrink's sofa
« Reply #225 on: January 11, 2010, 10:00:37 pm »
You need the kind of guy you'd call on to be the best man at your wedding... or the woman you plan to marry. *meh* enjoy your life reset, discover your interests and find groups who gather for those interests.  Thats your best chance.... or get a dog (man's best friend ;D)

As long as your getting up every morning and looking in the mirror to bathe in your own awesomeness... your doing your life right.
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CrystalDragonSpaceMarine

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Re: Shrink's sofa
« Reply #226 on: January 11, 2010, 10:07:30 pm »
I'd rather bathe in the blood of my enemies, but...you're right.

I need a hyperintelligent dog. Like Brian from Family Guy.

charles

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Re: Shrink's sofa
« Reply #227 on: January 11, 2010, 10:13:37 pm »
Then he'd just make you feel dumb  :P

hmmm, go for an English bulldog like the one in the new Sherlock Holmes movie... That'll cover your Watson *LOL*

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UmberIsSexy

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Re: Shrink's sofa
« Reply #228 on: June 25, 2014, 06:41:58 pm »
Just wanted to say BE FUCKING CAREFUL WHO YOU MARRY AND HAVE KIDS WITH!!!

Probably seems like common sense to some people, who probably have self esteem and other mentally healthy attributes, like perhaps a somewhat accurate understanding of themselves and their position in the world...it sure wasn't obvious to me.  I simultaneously had no standards and was not honest with myself about exactly how useless I am as a person...pretty sure I shouldn't have reproduced. I am an alcoholic with little or no original ideas, inner motivation (except to get laid...and be good to my kids, and the kids of the world in general...ok I do have tons of inner motivation about certain things, but I am really not A MAN, in the sense of being a leader and GETTING THINGS DONE. And I want to be A MAN. I relate with my male energy, I don't feel happy taking a passive role in relationships...and yet I have ooooodles of female energy, I am reactive to the point of ridiculousness, my default position is always the position of others, and I just don't hardly have any original thoughts, just reactive ones...reactive to my life, assembling the positions of others, reconciling and appraising, AT ALL TIMES, 100% of the time. I am addicted to self-improvement stuff or just anything I can watch. It's so hard for me to create.)

My marriage has fucking laid my life to waste now, she needles me and drains my energy. It's subconscious I think, not intentional, but she is very active in NOT WANTING ME TO GET ANY BETTER (improve myself) because she knows I want desperately to leave her and am attracted to tons of women, and often even attract them too. Stagnation is the opposite of growth which is the opposite of life in my opinion, and it's really killing me because I know it, but I feel I can't leave it because I don't want to hurt my kids, though I'm getting close to making the leap of faith, with the hopes that I can be a better dad when I'm not miserable and broken.

However, I've been saying I'm close to leaving for seriously about a decade now. Sigh.

Anyway, BE FUCKING CAREFUL WITH PREGNANCY!!!

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Re: Shrink's sofa
« Reply #229 on: June 26, 2014, 07:12:51 am »
UIS, I've never been in your situation and won't pretend It's a patented truth, but as I see it from your write-out, you are hurting yourself by staying, and really, don't for a second fool yourself into thinking your kids don't know what's going on. Problem is, kids have a tendency to blame themselves for when their parents can't cope and in that way, you might be hurting them too by staying in a destructive relationship. And damn sure you'll be a better dad if you're not miserable and broken.

My advice is to try find that last energy reserve and use it to say enough is enough. Then try to kick the booze and if that's too much, try to ease off as much as possible. Then make your own Life as a single dad or some other constellation. I for one is polyamourous, have Always been and have had the fortune to meet someone that reciprocate that view on love. And while we have not found any others to include in our lives It's something that we strive towards as a couple. (We won't ever have kids though, strictly sphynx cats for us.)

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Re: Shrink's sofa
« Reply #230 on: June 27, 2014, 09:48:54 pm »
Thanks a lot Emp!!! Thanks for reading my rambling rant and actually pulling some sense out of it.  I was not drunk at the time by the way, but reading back it sure looked like it.  Just at a low point. Good to type it out.

I've contacted a psychologist now and will be having a first session coming up. I'm reserving all decisions except the one to do my best to keep moving forward towards the best possible outcome. I've dabbled with the idea of seeing a psych before but I feel way more committed now.

Do you live with your partner?

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Re: Shrink's sofa
« Reply #231 on: June 28, 2014, 01:28:10 am »
I do live with my partner since three and a half years back now. And A psychologist could be a very good idea. Something that actually helped me a lot was submitting myself to a shamanistic healing session, even though I don't belive in spiritualism, it really felt as if I left as a whole person where before I had felt like a lost lonely entity in a vast void of my own mind.
That was about a year ago. I still have all the practical and emotional problems of Life but I am able to view them in a different light and have it easier to see the ways around or sollutions to any given situation in a way I couldn't Before.
On the downside, something that's also positive in a sense is that I now have a lot of angst regarding certain types of choises. Before I had avoided that specific angst by just picking what I percived as the expected choise and got a different kind of angst when it ended up wrong in some way no matter what and I was accused of lying...
Now I get angst since my unconcious see the choise as a trap and refuses to decide at all and locking me up mentally instead.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2014, 01:31:28 am by Emp_Dragon »

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Re: Shrink's sofa
« Reply #232 on: July 06, 2014, 12:45:34 am »
I hope things get better for you, UIS... it's good to see you around these parts.

This probably doesn't help-- but I know when my parents split up, I was super relieved. They were miserable together and I think it made it worse for us growing up. Hard to say though, we were all adults when it finally happened.

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Re: Shrink's sofa
« Reply #233 on: July 08, 2014, 08:40:22 pm »
Emp!

Wow that is super deep...I can relate, actually. I used to make every single decision with "Eeny Meeny Miney Moe" when I was a kid, (it's a rhyme where you point to different things with each word of the rhyme and when you say the last word, what you're pointing to is your choice), because I was terrified of any decision at all.  This was for, like, choosing which candy bar to eat or something like that. If there was a socially expected choice for a more important decision, of course I went for that. It took me years to get out of that and actually start making decisions for myself and thinking about what I actually wanted, and with the more important social decisions, I'm still working on unprogramming myself. When I was a kid, at first it seemed like fun to my overly logical and analytical mind to have some system to determine an outcome which required no thought, but later it became a burden and I always made myself so angry by leaving myself out of every equation.

Now, it's so ingrained in me to do what others want or society expects that I have to be constantly vigilant against it. Another thing that has come of fighting (internally) to make my own decisions is that I have found out what an asshole I am, which is coming as somewhat of a surprise. What I actually want is often so out of line with what society or the people around me want, or what my past behavior has conditioned those close to me to expect, that it's quite shocking and adds another layer of difficulty on my goal of actually making my own choices from within.

Akasha...great to see you...feel free to come visit me in Taiwan anytime. If my wife leaves me for hanging out with you, so be it!! No, just kidding, I would have to largely leave you to your own devices due to work and family and being too old to keep up, but I could show you the good clubs and give you a couple good nights of my energy and focus!

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Re: Shrink's sofa
« Reply #234 on: July 09, 2014, 02:23:42 am »
Yeah, it is Deep, and really, there is no way to be happy if we keep catering to others to the extent that we extinguish ourselves. Sure, others are valuable, but unless we put ourselves as equal to or some times more worthy than others, we'll just end up miserable slaves to others without them even knowing it. They assume we do it willingly and without depleting ourselves just because we let them belive it by not speaking out when it costs us too much. We need to find that middle way, and that level of social favours and catering is unique to each and every one of us. Some simply can't socialize with anyone, some has to and feeds emotionally on the company of others. Most of us are on an infinite sliding scale in between. And I assume there are people who are on the side of it all and just defy definition alltogether.

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Re: Shrink's sofa
« Reply #235 on: July 09, 2014, 09:55:03 pm »
I need tons of alone time, but I love to interact with children, but mostly as a humorous authority/teacher figure. I'm not really capable of true playfulness with others as equals...kind of disappointing...it makes me nervous and uncomfortable.  There are bursts of it that occur, but it's not normal for me at all.

I'm also way sexual, probably unhealthily so, which is kind of weird because I'm pretty antisocial.

I hope I'm not a sociopath or whatever.  Luckily, I'm going to start counseling tomorrow.

where do you fit in to the social needs scale?

Emp_Dragon

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Re: Shrink's sofa
« Reply #236 on: July 10, 2014, 02:27:30 am »
For me, my social needs vary, some days, I get panic-level stress and angst from any physical presense within sight while text or skype/team speak interaction is comforting, especially while playing cooperative games.
Other days I don't know what to do without physical company, be it friendly or love doesn't matter because to me, the only difference is that a partner is a female friend that I can have sex with, it all depends on what kind of relation a given female friend wants. I love my male friends equally intensely, difference beeing I don't get sexually attracted to men.

Over all, I'd say I'm pretty social, I don't mind beeing alone and doo need it quite frequently, but I just can't handle lonelyness.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2014, 04:52:59 am by Emp_Dragon »

akashayi

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Re: Shrink's sofa
« Reply #237 on: July 10, 2014, 03:02:43 am »
I don't think there's anything wrong with being an introvert/antisocial. Definitely for me, I need lots of alone time too- which is where I get my energy/recharge my batteries.

Doesn't mean I can't be hella sexual and enjoy life in my own way. And sexuality is a natural part of being a human, so....

UmberIsSexy

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Re: Shrink's sofa
« Reply #238 on: September 01, 2014, 08:50:40 pm »
I wanna be more natural with my human parts!

jk-very well said Akasha.

I couldn't imagine not being introverted actually. Imagine being dependent on interaction with others for happiness!! I like being totally self-sufficient...

...though it's never "totally".

So, what happens when two introverts get together romantically?

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Re: Shrink's sofa
« Reply #239 on: September 02, 2014, 06:21:41 am »
A whole lot of sitting in the same room chatting over the internet? ;)