Chapter 21: Discussion

[Trombonefellow]

You guys give Brion too much credit. No, I don't think he's actually going to turn into a soft-core porn writer. But he has a habit of making characters behave inconsistently or introducing situations that either are unncessary or don't make sense in context just for the sake of forcing a particular plot point. I'm sure this will be resolved, but as usual, it comes off feeling like he's had these basic major scenes in his head for a long time, and he is just connecting the dots to get from one point to the other in ways that are often clunky or that don't fit well with what he's built up in the meantime.

I agree to an extent, but in the end this kind of thing is his decision to make, whether you continue to read is up to you.

I'd say considering the nature of the comic, Brion does a damn good job of balancing fan service and the story.

[Razzly]

I don't like this.

I hope it's a spell. Or a dream.

[AdonCa]

Count me as one who will be left with a very sick feeling to his stomach if there isn't some serious magic going on here.  Otherwise... yay!  Let's destroy Bern's personality so she can get with the hedonistic program!

If Bern doesn't react *very* badly to the whole thing at the end of the day, I will be more than disappointed.

Maaaaybe I should mention now that I never really 'got' the actual Rocky Horror Picture Show, and found parts of it pretty damned creepy.

[CrystalDragonSpaceMarine]

Get over it yah wee pansy!
This comic is better than anything you could ever make.

Tsst, I'd recommend you avoid this line of argument. It's just not a good one.

Ever heard of fan-service?

Well, I'd hardly call this fanservice. I'm definitely not serviced by what is basically magic-aided rape.

What makes you assume it doesn't?  

A classic rebuttal.

lol at the people freaking out

obviously this has an explanation, just keep reading

I know, right?

There are all sorts of things it could be. That still doesn't make this scene necessary to the story. Lets say it is a spell, and the point of this story arc is to highlight Bern's shyness. We've been over that, though, many many times. Is there really an important enough revelation at the end of this to warrant this whole long, drawn-out stop at the B&B? Or maybe the point is to show that Glyph really is a dangerous pervert after all (he knew about this B&B beforehand, remember; his "You guys have got to check this place out" line, or whatever it was) and not to be trusted, but golly, I'm pretty sure this has been well covered, as well. And this too big of an out-of-character situation to just be dismissed as extra fanservice.

How is it out of character? First thing we see is Bern's "oh shit" face, the Glyph's "rape face", and then Bern's completely changed expression. Look, if this turns into some huge thing where yeah, Bern's straight'n'loose now, then yeah, you have a point, but this is ONE PAGE.

And yeah, it's disgusting. It's surprising. I didn't think Glyph would go further than the peeping tom stage either, but hey, this is just one page. We don't know where this going. It's an unexpected but not unrealistic revelation of his character.

You guys give Brion too much credit. No, I don't think he's actually going to turn into a soft-core porn writer. But he has a habit of making characters behave inconsistently or introducing situations that either are unncessary or don't make sense in context just for the sake of forcing a particular plot point. I'm sure this will be resolved, but as usual, it comes off feeling like he's had these basic major scenes in his head for a long time, and he is just connecting the dots to get from one point to the other in ways that are often clunky or that don't fit well with what he's built up in the meantime.

We knew this story was about sex since page one. We shouldn't be surprised when people are shown having sex.

You need to chill out and be okay with stories that have these kind of things in them, just because it affronts your sensibilities doesn't mean that it's "not necessary", in fact, sometimes jarring people can be used by a story to get its point across.

[Mysia]

You know, there are a lot of valid points and interesting ideas about the new page today.

Hell, maybe it's what Glyph is imagining will happen and the next comic they'll all be in lobster suits doing the macarena.

The thing is, I'm curious as hell to see wtf is going on @_@. I'll hold off judgment til I see what happens.

What I do see, however, is that everyone's so wound up about the kiss and potential and confusing three-way that seems to be developing for no reason that they failed to notice Maytag's left arm has reappeared magically. Is this a sign that this scene isn't real or perhaps a slip up by the artist.

I don't know. But I think there needs to be more pages right now to clear this up. /flail

[wolf-demon_tsuki]

i'm guessing a spell on the bath to help its users to express their desires at that time. in bern's case- to be more open. in may's- to help bern. glyph's-...if you can't guess his desires come back when your a little older.

[Kamui]

Hmm, I'm guessing it's either Bern trying to be more open, or magic bath, either way, this should prove very interesting...

[zombiefruits]

AUGH WTF.

I was hoping Glyph would get his ass KICKED. Seeing Bern kiss a man made me rage a little. But there's still time for Glyph to redeem himself. You know, by dying.

[AdonCa]

Need to add here... I can see maybe Bern trying to be more open.  But... there's being more open and there's 'woo, let's have a threesome with a perverted creep I barely know and don't like!'  It just strains credibility to me that she'd make that kind of leap naturally.  Which means that it's either unnatural or this comic has taken a turn where I really, *really* would rather not go.

[wolf-demon_tsuki]

eh just wait, i'm willing to bet that this is going to come back and really bite glyph in the ass. with two pointy steel teeth.

[Brion Foulke]

There are all sorts of things it could be. That still doesn't make this scene necessary to the story.

Just curious, how do you define what is "necessary" and what isn't?  I'm guessing that what you really mean is that this direction of story is simply not to your taste.  If that's the case, there's nothing wrong with that, but please consider that perhaps I have no interest in telling a story that is suited to your tastes.

Lets say it is a spell, and the point of this story arc is to highlight Bern's shyness.

No, that's not the point.

to warrant this whole long, drawn-out

It's actually paced pretty quickly.  It should be paced a bit slower, but I'm trying to keep it moving

You guys give Brion too much credit.

I don't know about that, perhaps some of them do.  I think most people here have a tendency to be harsh.

<nitpicking>Another proof for the water being magical is Maytags left hand on Berns shoulder....</nitpicking>

Damn it, I keep forgetting.  Sorry...

[lightandmagic]

Heyho. Just a newbie here. I finally registered after reading the last page of the comic...

Really I just wanted to say that I do think that people are being a little excessively harsh at the moment. I do believe a lot of the reactions are knee-jerk and a bit premature...

That said, I've always respected the fact that Brion has created a true lesbian character in Bernadette and not just the usual, unrealistic male fantasy 'lesbian that also sleeps with men for the sake fanservice' girl. She's a lesbian and "boys are gross" to her. She's also possessive over her partner and shy about her own body, that's been firmly established. Everything that's happing on this last page is completely and utterly out-of-character for Bern and I am really hoping that Brion has a good, plot driven reason for this, I really do...

I'm also of the mind that the bath or something in the room is enchanted.

[Brion Foulke]

Well, obviously I don't want to give anything away.  But let me just assure you, there is nothing out of character about the latest page.

[Tyris]

Ah, but out of whose character?

*fingerwaggle*

[erana]

Count me as one who will be left with a very sick feeling to his stomach if there isn't some serious magic going on here.  Otherwise... yay!  Let's destroy Bern's personality so she can get with the hedonistic program!

If Bern doesn't react *very* badly to the whole thing at the end of the day, I will be more than disappointed.

Maaaaybe I should mention now that I never really 'got' the actual Rocky Horror Picture Show, and found parts of it pretty damned creepy.

Should reply with a wholehearted "I agree" one-liner, but for the fact I *did* get the actual RHPS.

[Miau]

Went back and read the last three pages together -- I didn't notice the question marks on the previous pages, maybe they were added in at a later time? They're totally confusing me.

Anyway -- I'm thinking this is a fantasy of Glyph's. He's peeping, and the rest is a fantasy.
That, or he's taking advantage of the magic tub that he must've known about when he went on about how great the B&B was. If that's the case -- well there's three girls around, he probably thought he was bound to get lucky with at least one of them in the magic water.

Anxious for the next page.
*un-jerks knee* Ah.. That's better.

[erana]

I forgot to add that even *MAYTAG* should react with extreme anger. Because she knows that Bern would NOT like it; in other words, she knows it's an attack against Bern. And we all know how she reacts to threats to Bern.

Actually, our hopes now *are* for a bit of double-teaming sandwich of May-Glyph-Bern. One involving lots of sharp, pointy things instead of butter.

  I just realiced... if Crest joins them in the "gangbang" and "hits on" Glyph with a "big stick"... would that count as Fanservice?  

[charles]

<nitpicking>Another proof for the water being magical is Maytags left hand on Berns shoulder....</nitpicking>

Damn it, I keep forgetting.  Sorry...

Just a suggestion but, remove her hand from the 3rd last pane, but have her "stub" reaching up to Bern's shoulder instead.  Somehow it just seems like a wrong yet right touch.

NEXT PAGE PREDICTION: Bern Turns around and kisses Glyph. 

Yep.  I simply imagined the most unlikely and controversial response and knew instantly that Brion would do it. 

[akashayi]

O.o

[Necrosinner]

Interesting!

[Abstract Vagabond]

I forgot to add that even *MAYTAG* should react with extreme anger. Because she knows that Bern would NOT like it; in other words, she knows it's an attack against Bern. And we all know how she reacts to threats to Bern.

Actually, our hopes now *are* for a bit of double-teaming sandwich of May-Glyph-Bern. One involving lots of sharp, pointy things instead of butter.

  I just realiced... if Crest joins them in the "gangbang" and "hits on" Glyph with a "big stick"... would that count as Fanservice?  

What's Suspiria up to? Throw her in, then add a dozen puppies, a slip n slide, a crate full of carrots, Flintstone chewable vitamins, 2 sea otters and Chuck Norris. When the host of the place wonders what's going on, Moss can come in and yell, "The Aristocrats!"

[charles]

@Deatzh: Your incentive to fill the "little pit of rage" with about 20 new posts *lol*

Just went over the entire chapter and remembering THIS PAGE with Moss and the twins, I notice he said you which leaves me thinking they might not be twins but the same person.

The chapter cover looks very strange as Maytag faces off against the cast of this castle, so it's almost looking like she alone is the one worrying here.  I feel like this whole thing is some sort of experiment and knowing that Moss can see people's weaknesses I can instantly see how he could be a part of whatever process this involves, discovering each of the subject's "weaknesses". A knowledge that might be crucial to whatever experiment they're conducting.

Maytag's weakness was her infidelity and in the interview section he described Bern's as the fact she's a Lesbian (although it was before she "came out" so it might not be considered her weakness anymore).  Glyph's is almost certainly an obsession with women.  Then we get to possible desires: 1. Glyph - would obviously desire the threesome. 2. Bern - possibly desires to be more open and free like (and for) Maytag. 3. Maytag - probably desires an open relationship with Bern.

Crest asked at page 6 or something if Maytag's statements were really what she wanted.  She was under a truth spell but she was stating what she'd do with a conviction she felt at the time, not that making Bern happy was her greatest desire.  In a way, I guess this could be showing a deep seated desire of Bern to make Maytag happy but that Maytag's deep seated desire is still for Bern to change and make her happy. *shrug*

PEOPLE: just don't forget that we have at least Moss as a 2nd level sorcerer, then we've got the B&B sign out the front which was hovering/floating and weighed down to the ground so it's looking like magick is involved in this place.  Not sure to what level or what purpose, but the rates for the rooms are too cheap IMHO for the quality of their accomodation so this whole thing feels like either one big trap or one big experiment.

[SAGG]

I don't like this.

I hope it's a spell. Or a dream.

I'm thinking either one, or even both. It's certainly possible.

[CrystalDragonSpaceMarine]

@Deatzh: Your incentive to fill the "little pit of rage" with about 20 new posts *lol*

Just went over the entire chapter and remembering THIS PAGE with Moss and the twins, I notice he said you which leaves me thinking they might not be twins but the same person.

I think he was just talking to one of them.

[dataslave]

Well, a page like this certainly does bring people out of the woodwork... (myself included)

Long time lurker, newbie poster.

The castle is obviously a bit weird - the B&B sign was fresh, a bit ornate for the price, awfully weird inhabitants and the bath a little too convenient.  All this adds up to some kind of setup.

My prediction is that Glyph is not even himself - either it's Moss in disguise or more likely, it's a potion of possession served with the sandwiches.
Add to that a bath likely enchanted by Moss for this purpose and you have an instant threesome.  This will serve 2 purposes - it will help Bern out of her shell, but it will make Maytag freak out because of her sense of morality (it's always been her choice and on her terms - she did also commit to just being with Bern).

[Tropico]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAH ok there's no way that's real, come on Definitely had me going there for a second though. I do hope shit hits the fan as soon as someone either wakes up, 'resists' the spell, or steps out of the pool, though.

What's Suspiria up to? Throw her in, then add a dozen puppies, a slip n slide, a crate full of carrots, Flintstone chewable vitamins, 2 sea otters and Chuck Norris. When the host of the place wonders what's going on, Moss can come in and yell, "The Aristocrats!"

Ok, that's the first Aristocrats joke I've seen in my entire life that was actually funny. Congratulations!



(Um, also, eocene: Shut. The Hell. Up. For godsakes. Some people.. )

[charles]

Yo Guys. Please remain civil... All sides.

We're all in love with Brion's comic and the characters he's created.  This page is obviously supposed to catch us off guard in a WTF moment which is bound to raise controversy and cause people to hate, love and question the sudden turn.

Lets voice our concerns, our fears, likes, dislikes, theories and opinions but lets keep it all friendly and respectful between us.  The whole forum's purpose is for people to voice their thoughts and opinions as well as communicate with fellow fans.

[Thirsha]

Please don't let it be true. Please don't let it be true. This can't be happening, I refuse to believe it. It is totally out of character, Maytag maybe, but not Bern. Something is afoot. If this were true I would have to stop reading, that would be too much. Good thing this is just some sort of bizarre dream, delusion or magic. (sits in the corner rocking back and forth)

[charles]

I think you were trying to display this:

[Foof]

Wow...that, um...seemed a little uncalled for, guys.  I don't think this is so deserving of all the ranting and complaining.  Really.  Do try and think about where they are, too.  What if the hot tub has some sort of spell?  Perhaps it brings out hidden desires.  Things do happen in the heat of passion.  Let's try and be sensible here.  I don't think Brion needs all this flame.