Author Topic: Chapter 21: Discussion  (Read 113782 times)

Brion Foulke

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Re: Chapter 21: Discussion
« Reply #30 on: April 24, 2009, 01:12:26 am »
Heh, I figured the part about her contradicting Bern's belief that this was a phase.  BUT DAMMIT BRION! You're making this painfully slow with switching images of characters reactions and a paragraph from Maytag thats going to take most of the chapter for her to squeeze out between them... But I guess that keeps us on the edge of our seat *lol*

Hey, first page of a new book pretty much has to be slow!  But don't worry, I wanna move fast too.  Might be a couple more slow pages but they should be high impact.  After that plot should hopefully be speeding along pretty quick.

charles

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Re: Chapter 21: Discussion
« Reply #31 on: April 24, 2009, 11:08:36 am »
Now page 3 is more like it. but yeah, I understand the slow start page.  Particularly for a new book let alone a new chapter.  It sets the scene again so you're reminded of where you are, etc.

ALRIGHT CREST, PULL THE NOTE OUT OF YOUR POCKET!

And go Maytag.  But I wonder what Bern's response to this will be.  She's pretty much been told that Maytag's dream is for sexual freedom but she's giving up that dream for Bern just as Bern gave up her knighthood dream for Maytag.
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RoninAngel

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Re: Chapter 21: Discussion
« Reply #32 on: April 24, 2009, 11:11:20 am »
For any one who thinks that being with Beredette is good for Maytag, I have proof that it's not on page 2. She's turning her back on everything that made her such a unique, engaging and adorable character in the first place.  :( :( :( :( :( :( :(


I HATE YOU BEREDETTE! DIE IN A FIRE!  >:(
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Re: Chapter 21: Discussion
« Reply #33 on: April 24, 2009, 11:29:21 am »
What the heck Ronin, you can't seriously be saying that the only thing that made Maytag interesting was the way she cheated in a relationship? I'm beginning to question your values here! (or is the word valuation? Help me here, Emp, "värdering" in english?)
What about her quirks? Her skills with people? Her poker-skills? Her adorable personality and likeableness?

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Re: Chapter 21: Discussion
« Reply #34 on: April 24, 2009, 11:34:47 am »
Don't worry Razzly; it's obvious RoninAngel is possessed by the devil, as shown by his post count.

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Re: Chapter 21: Discussion
« Reply #35 on: April 24, 2009, 11:37:07 am »
She loves her though Ronin - enough to do that.  You don't love the Bern?

Oh but are you more saying that Bernadette sucks, rather than May is making an incorrect choice?  or just that she should die in a fire?

Wups ninja'd...well Razz, I don't think it's that simple...when she was exploring and sharing her sexuality with people, and helping them out with their own sexual issues, she was in her element, she was full of joy!

Brion Foulke

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Re: Chapter 21: Discussion
« Reply #36 on: April 24, 2009, 11:52:45 am »
Don't worry Razzly; it's obvious RoninAngel is possessed by the devil, as shown by his post count.

Careful with jokes like this, his post count is already 667!  (When this post was made, it was 666 at the time.  Just making a note of that.)

Razzly

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Re: Chapter 21: Discussion
« Reply #37 on: April 24, 2009, 11:58:08 am »


Wups ninja'd...well Razz, I don't think it's that simple...when she was exploring and sharing her sexuality with people, and helping them out with their own sexual issues, she was in her element, she was full of joy!

Oh, I know... But that's not Bern's fault! And after all, May chose Bern. She could have chosen to break up as well, which, in my opinion, would have been better than cheating in the first place, really.
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Re: Chapter 21: Discussion
« Reply #38 on: April 24, 2009, 11:59:45 am »
What the heck Ronin, you can't seriously be saying that the only thing that made Maytag interesting was the way she cheated in a relationship? I'm beginning to question your values here! (or is the word valuation? Help me here,
No. That's not it at all. What makes her so awsome is that she's a free spirit. She's joyful and isn't tied down, she lives her life by the beat of her own drummer and doesn't let others define her. She's a cute, irrepressible imp! Look at her now, and the fire has gone out of her eyes. She is like a caged bird.  :(
Do you know why the caged bird sings?
Becuase it can no longer fly, that's why.  :(
Quote
Emp, "värdering" in english?)
What about her quirks? Her skills with people? Her poker-skills? Her adorable personality and likeableness?


Well show me where you've found it hiding lately and I'll comment on it.
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Re: Chapter 21: Discussion
« Reply #39 on: April 24, 2009, 12:02:33 pm »
You forget, Ronin, that Maytag CHOSE this. She has the key to her cage, so if she's so miserable, she can just use it.

Also, about where her likeableness is: It's been overshadowed by her inner fight, obviously. ^^
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Re: Chapter 21: Discussion
« Reply #40 on: April 24, 2009, 12:20:53 pm »
She only chose it becuase she was backed into a corner.
It's not what she really wants. I mean look at her. She's dying inside.  :(
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Re: Chapter 21: Discussion
« Reply #41 on: April 24, 2009, 12:23:05 pm »
I disagree.
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Re: Chapter 21: Discussion
« Reply #42 on: April 24, 2009, 12:56:00 pm »
She only chose it because she was backed into a corner.
It's not what she really wants. I mean look at her. She's dying inside.  :(

Well, a monogamous relationship definitely isn't what Maytag would choose in an ideal world. In an ideal world she'd want an open relationship with Bern. But since the real world isn't ideal, she has to pick the best option among the available ones, and she looks like she's pretty certain that making Bernadette happy is what she wants most.

Of course, she may change her mind after a month or two of experiencing this kind of self-repression.


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Re: Chapter 21: Discussion
« Reply #43 on: April 24, 2009, 01:43:41 pm »

I am hungry right now, which has made me decide that the last two panels make it look like May is going to eat Bern's face. OMNOMFACE.  Or more like, "I am sorry, Bern, I do not mean to do this, which is clearly expressed by the tears in my eyes, but I am so hungry that I just cannot keep from eating your delicious face!"


I think we need some of that. Or at least some passionate kissing. When was the last time we saw them share a passionate kiss anyway?
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Re: Chapter 21: Discussion
« Reply #44 on: April 24, 2009, 01:53:22 pm »
She only chose it becuase she was backed into a corner.
It's not what she really wants. I mean look at her. She's dying inside.  :(

1 she can still choose otherwise at another point in time
2 She has said that she's willing to die for Bern. I know you meant metaphorically but if she's willing to physically die for Bern, I'm sure she'd be willing to compromise her feelings and believes, even if it hurts.
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Re: Chapter 21: Discussion
« Reply #45 on: April 24, 2009, 03:06:20 pm »
Well I still think it sucks.
If Bernedette really wanted Maytag to be happy, she wouldn't let her do this. [pout/]  >:(
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Re: Chapter 21: Discussion
« Reply #46 on: April 24, 2009, 03:57:29 pm »
y hullo thar ronin

Quote
For any one who thinks that being with Beredette is good for Maytag, I have proof that it's not on page 2. She's turning her back on everything that made her such a unique, engaging and adorable character in the first place.
That's not proof, that's wild conjecture you made up because you hate Bernadette. Maytag would still be just as lovable and interesting without her sex addiction (even if it isn't a sex addiction). If anything it will make her more likable, since a good deal of the the people who have problems with May (like me) will have one less thing to complain about. Besides, she's not turning her back on anything: May made this decision independent of Bern. You need to stop blaming every choice May makes that you don't like on Bernadette. If Bern decided she was okay with threesomes, would I hate it? Yes, but I wouldn't claim May was pushing her into it. Maytag and Bernadette are responsible for their own choices, and you need to see that. When May decides to do something you don't want her to do, it's not automatically nasty old Bernadette pulling poor May's strings.

Quote
No. That's not it at all. What makes her so awsome is that she's a free spirit. She's joyful and isn't tied down, she lives her life by the beat of her own drummer and doesn't let others define her. She's a cute, irrepressible imp! Look at her now, and the fire has gone out of her eyes. She is like a caged bird.
But how can you blame Bernadette when May is the one who walked into the "cage" and locked the door, and when she has the key right there behind the bars with her and simply chooses not to open the door? All Bern did was build the cage, yet you blame her for May's self-imprisonment? That's silly.

In addition: I harshly resent your implication that monogamy is a cage. The implication that all people in monogamous relationships are incapable of being free spirits, being joyful, or defining themselves is also offensive. Entering into a loving relationship with one person does not tie your soul to them forever and ever. One in a monogamous relationship is still their own person. It really says a lot about your opinion of Maytag that you think she's not strong enough to maintain her own personality just because she decided to stopped slutting for the woman she loves.

Quote
Do you know why the caged bird sings?
Becuase it can no longer fly, that's why.
I don't want to get personal here, but aren't you married or something? I hope you don't consider yourself caged.

Quote
She only chose it becuase she was backed into a corner.
Oh, that is such a load. Bernadette is not Maytag's god, she's her girlfriend. Backed into a corner? She's entirely capable of removing herself from the situation. If May really wanted to keep her lifestyle going, she would leave Bern. She can't have her cake and eat it too, and now she's "dying"? Boo-fuckity-hoo. She's growing up, Ronin. She's behaving like a rational adult and making her choice between two mutually exclusive things she wants, and she's not expecting her lover to cave and let her have everything. Bern even just tried to essentially give her a free pass to keep cheating for a while longer until she's "over the phase", and May said no. How can you possibly blame that on Bern?

Of course, I don't think there is any blame here, because blame implies there's a problem. I think this is good for both of them.

Quote
It's not what she really wants. I mean look at her.
She's under the effects of a spell right now. Of course she looks weird. 

Quote
If Bernedette really wanted Maytag to be happy, she wouldn't let her do this.
Are we reading the same page!? Fourth panel.

Bern: May...
May: I've made up my mind.

This is, if anything, Bern realizing that May is changing herself. Bern is apprehensive about that, since getting over a phase is a natural progression of someone's life, while a conscious decision to change is not. May's mind is set, though, because she's willing to do this for the person she loves most.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2009, 04:03:17 pm by Xshu »

RoninAngel

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Re: Chapter 21: Discussion
« Reply #47 on: April 24, 2009, 04:06:46 pm »
Whatever. We'll see.

And thanks for all the animosity by the way.


« Last Edit: April 24, 2009, 04:09:01 pm by RoninAngel »
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Re: Chapter 21: Discussion
« Reply #48 on: April 24, 2009, 04:12:09 pm »
Well I still think it sucks.
If Bernedette really wanted Maytag to be happy, she wouldn't let her do this. [pout/]  >:(

If Maytag really wanted Bern to be happy, she'd insist on doing it.

Gotta love those kind of "I want you to be happy" crossroads moments.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2009, 04:21:39 pm by CrystalDragonSpaceMarine »

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Re: Chapter 21: Discussion
« Reply #49 on: April 24, 2009, 06:20:38 pm »
Quote
And thanks for all the animosity by the way.

So you can scream for Bern to die in a fire and get all melodramatic over how May is a caged, dying bird, but if I'm sarcastic with you I get called on it? Please. XD

Anyways, you've been ragging on Bern for this and that no matter how calmly I explained to you that she's not necessarily in the wrong. Did you honestly expect I wouldn't lose my patience with you at some point? If you don't want to hear people's opinions on your opinion, don't tell them your opinion. It's a two-way street.

However, I did get on your back for getting overly-passionate and using the term "resent" last time we debated, so I do apologize for that bit of hypocrisy.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2009, 06:34:30 pm by Xshu »

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Re: Chapter 21: Discussion
« Reply #50 on: April 24, 2009, 10:15:06 pm »
You know what?
I didn't expect it,I though May would try another fight about her beliefs and nature and such.
But I must say I'm pleased with current development,indeed someone is maturing here a lot.
And saying that only May is being giver here,well Bern always supported her,and also she didn't do anything even she knew she was cheated on,which must hurt her a hell,even May didn't feel right when she cheated by doing it.
But I wonder how this will play out in a physical aspect,let's say Bern can satisfy May lust for women,but what with men,since May is bi,and for sure Bern can't satisfy her in such way a man can(of course I'm not telling that a lesbian can't satisfy a woman or anything sexist like that here),I think that for May this fight will be more difficult than any fights she had so far.
At least Bern should let May do what she wants with her body,like showing it nude(like the modeling case) without any problems now,the only think which should not be allowed are like May said sexual things.
If we look at it Crest has the same morals in relationships Bern does.
Also Crest would be a good candidate for Regina(I hope she will show sometime again) ;)
As for chapter cover,a big foursome on Crest with some gags maybe and looking at these characters it's possible,would be nice :D
Somehow making Crest feel uncomfortable in a funny way is always something I'm not bored to see.
Will Crest loose his virginity in this comic storyline or he will stay in his emo virgin mode as pernament character stat?
I hope we will get an answer soon...
« Last Edit: April 24, 2009, 10:17:20 pm by Kiran »

Brion Foulke

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Re: Chapter 21: Discussion
« Reply #51 on: April 24, 2009, 10:35:08 pm »
Ronin, I appreciate that you are so passionate about my characters, but in this thread you really need to restrain your passion a little bit.  Please be careful posting remarks that you know will stir people up.  If you want to make your own thread where you rant about Bernadette, that's fine, then you can be as passionate as you want.

charles

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Re: Chapter 21: Discussion
« Reply #52 on: April 25, 2009, 01:06:11 am »
Between Bernadette and Maytag what we have is a merging of the conservative with the liberal.

Brion is painting a wonderful story of how tolerance and compromise fueled by love can overcome such vast differences in thinking and lifestyle.
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Re: Chapter 21: Discussion
« Reply #53 on: April 25, 2009, 02:38:23 am »
Well said, Charles, well said.

(I also think this new developement is better for them both.)
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Re: Chapter 21: Discussion
« Reply #54 on: April 25, 2009, 09:56:00 am »
Between Bernadette and Maytag what we have is a merging of the conservative with the liberal.

Brion is painting a wonderful story of how tolerance and compromise fueled by love can overcome such vast differences in thinking and lifestyle.

Oh, jeez, let's not bring political metaphors into this...

Brion Foulke

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Re: Chapter 21: Discussion
« Reply #55 on: April 25, 2009, 11:00:09 am »
Between Bernadette and Maytag what we have is a merging of the conservative with the liberal.

Brion is painting a wonderful story of how tolerance and compromise fueled by love can overcome such vast differences in thinking and lifestyle.

Oh, jeez, let's not bring political metaphors into this...

It's okay, it's not like he said either was bad!

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Re: Chapter 21: Discussion
« Reply #56 on: April 25, 2009, 12:47:27 pm »
Damn, I really need to get used to the idea that this whole comic is in slow motion...

A friggin' week... When I first read it it took me a few seconds to realize what she was talking about. I was in the mindset that they were in BM's town for at least a few weeks.

Hey, wait a minute. If they left Crest's town just a week ago, how come it took the Phalanx so much time to get to BM's town? Didn't Vajra say something about the closest town being a few weeks away on foot? I'm probably missing something here... and I'm too lazy to go back and read it again >.>

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Re: Chapter 21: Discussion
« Reply #57 on: April 25, 2009, 07:49:32 pm »
Between Bernadette and Maytag what we have is a merging of the conservative with the liberal.

Brion is painting a wonderful story of how tolerance and compromise fueled by love can overcome such vast differences in thinking and lifestyle.

Oh, jeez, let's not bring political metaphors into this...

It's okay, it's not like he said either was bad!
And they're not.  But what can be bad is one side trying to force its ideals of conservatisim or liberalisim onto the other.

Thats the beautiful thing about Maytag and Bernadette. Although they come from opposite ends of the spectrum, they're not trying to force either of their own ideals upon the other but rather they're pushing themselves to tolerate and accept each other.  Certainly, Maytag has expressed how she would like to have Bern be more liberal and share an open relationship with her, just as Bern has now expressed that she'd like Maytag to settle down with her alone. But neither has forced their thinking upon the other.

They are, however, voluntarily compromising on their beliefs and actions because of their love for one another.  Maytag understands that while Bern can tolerate her sexual escapades, it still hurts her, just as Bern has come to understand that while Maytag can tone down her urges, it makes her feel trapped.  So they're working together to find a common ground where Maytag can pose for nude drawings and have her nights on the town while Bern can still feel like their affections and bond is something unique and special between them.
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Re: Chapter 21: Discussion
« Reply #58 on: April 25, 2009, 10:24:13 pm »
Random: I wonder if sex in a magical carriage is anything like sex in a car?

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Re: Chapter 21: Discussion
« Reply #59 on: April 25, 2009, 10:50:35 pm »
Add static electricity to the car and I think you'd be right on  ;D

@Malki: Yeah, I thought that too. They said it was 2 weeks walk to Eschelon and Brahma is about 1/3 of the way there so it was probably 5 days walking there, then I think they had 4 days in Brahma (1 day Messin' with Mary and 3 days wait after she went missing from her cave). So we're probably more like a week and a half but "about a week ago" probably covers it.

As for the Phalanx's response, it would have taken a week and a half for the messenger to get there on foot (only after they'd finally sent someone) then some time for the Conclave to deliberate on a response before sending Qtalda's team out in the carriage.  That would have given Suspira and Kinn the time to get there 3 days ahead of 'em (probably using a lot of magick flight, or an off-road shortcut).
« Last Edit: April 25, 2009, 11:13:41 pm by charles »
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