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Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 49: Discussion
« Last post by Deuce on November 29, 2017, 03:00:47 pm »
No one deserves to be raped. But lots of people get raped, women and men, and it needs to be addressed. Which is why it's important to have it presented in an equal manner in fiction. I don't like what's going on here, but I appreciate that Brion is including it as part of his story.
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Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 49: Discussion
« Last post by bulmabriefs144 on November 27, 2017, 06:46:50 pm »
Pffft, fairness.

Somewhere I have a FB post of three ppl stuck in... fecal matter.

One has significantly less than the others, and the two squawk at this, saying it's unfair that he isn't in as much as them. The point he immediately brings up is "shouldn't we be trying to find a way OUT of this crap?" It was a joke, but pretty spot on. When we tear down people who are actively trying to fix things, what good have we really done?

I happen to be white, but I give to charities and at my job I try to help all kinds of people out. I am not rich by any stretch, but people who would accuse me of "white privilege" and take my last dime would succeed only in making one less person help them out.

Crest does not deserve to be raped. Nor did May deserve to be stripped naked, or Bern/Polly to be sexually and financially abused. Life does happen, but we much never believe rape is part of "justice".
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Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 49: Discussion
« Last post by Kiran on November 27, 2017, 03:09:19 pm »
Geez, you're rough!  :o

Also, not entirely true. This trope is common because men tend to have self-induced guilt for their entire gender for what the worst ones do.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DoubleStandardAbuseFemaleOnMale
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/UsefulNotes/Abuse

It's generally seen as hard or impossible to abuse men, but this is simply not true.

Bottom line, even if it were equal, Crest doesn't deserve this stuff any more than they did.
Of course but if author decided to abuse the female MCs in both physical and also sexual way so many times already for various reasons, then won't you agree that a 3rd MC too should get a piece of that ugly pie for equality reasoning?
Bern didn't deserve most of the things which happened to her, basically from start of the story with Maytag cheating spree, but as we see they happened.
I know it's more welcomed to do such things to female characters cause it sells better as fanservice motive and abusing females is more common than guys, especially seeing the good honest female pushed into doing dirty things she is ashamed of doing etc. but Crest is basically male version of Bern as morals and monogamous feelings go, so I want to see him getting broken as Bern was pushed to do or at least have a hints of that from psychological standpoint, give him some depth than throwing new girls at him as his character developoment :P
If a person is an MC of the comic he deserves same fate like other characters, gender should not be any excuse here to not give such fate to Crest.
Basically it actually would be interesting to see Crest pushed in similiar way like Bern, May and finally Polly were, to have sex to earn his freedom or to save someone, and then be sulking about it after. But like I said I don't think this comic will ever go that way for guys since i bet many readers self-insert too much into Crest persona than trying to judge him as actually important character in the story they prefer him as joke harem protag...
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Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 49: Discussion
« Last post by SAGG on November 27, 2017, 02:32:53 pm »
Yeah, Suspira's working some magic around here, I'm sure of it...
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Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 49: Discussion
« Last post by bulmabriefs144 on November 24, 2017, 01:55:53 pm »
Geez, you're rough!  :o

Also, not entirely true. This trope is common because men tend to have self-induced guilt for their entire gender for what the worst ones do.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DoubleStandardAbuseFemaleOnMale
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/UsefulNotes/Abuse

It's generally seen as hard or impossible to abuse men, but this is simply not true.

Bottom line, even if it were equal, Crest doesn't deserve this stuff any more than they did.

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Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 49: Discussion
« Last post by Kiran on November 24, 2017, 11:11:09 am »
Gasp, I knew it! Crest is evil.  ;D It looks like the only thing Crest is guilty of is being too decent (not a compliment, he basically told her that she's scum for cheating on her boyfriend).
Look what being decent and trying to be a good 'wife' to Maytag done to Bern over the course of the comic?
Decent characters always get the bad moments, especially females, so it would be nice to at least once see things done to Crest like they were done many times to either Maytag or Bern or Polly just for wanting to act in a good way for someone.
In a way I want to see some kind of equality in either abuse or humilitation done to Crest on similiar level that was done to May and Bern in their chapters since he is basically a 3rd MC of this comic.
But then Crest is a guy so maybe he will get spared since it's easier to do such things to female characters.
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Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 49: Discussion
« Last post by bulmabriefs144 on November 24, 2017, 05:21:48 am »
Oh don't misunderstand, I'm not saying I want someone like Glyph to off themselves. The exact opposite actually. I'm saying "feeling remorseful" doesn't tend to go well with "staying alive." Even though typically remorseless characters are likely the ones that everyone wants to kill off in either case.

Unless they've got an axe to grind. I've been watching Hollywood try to defend these molesters, and it's a prudish standard for us common folk but for Weinstein, who probably is unrepentant of all the people who screwed (literally), they defend him because they owe their jobs to him.

Also, I really really hate Moby. Even though Crest kinda does need to understand that his early behavior to Maytag wasn't cool. He was kinda all "let's make out" even after she was like... actually, I need to re-read this part to see if Crest remotely deserves any of this, but I'm gonna bet odds on "not a chance in hell."

http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=195

Gasp, I knew it! Crest is evil.  ;D It looks like the only thing Crest is guilty of is being too decent (not a compliment, he basically told her that she's scum for cheating on her boyfriend).   
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Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 49: Discussion
« Last post by SirBananaPie on November 24, 2017, 02:12:38 am »
Yeah, in Real Life I agree. When it comes to fictional characters however, I just like to be heartless sometimes. ::) Unworthy characters can just stay away from the story, so we can focus on the ones which are actually competent instead. So the so-called "Phalanx" can go get Worfed somewhere else for all I care. Except for Q'talda. I like her.

Of course there's always the option of them prooving themselves, but Moby isn't doing a good job at it. Knife-dude is a nice guy I guess. So let's see who is actually competent.
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Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 49: Discussion
« Last post by bulmabriefs144 on November 23, 2017, 08:03:05 pm »
Ironically, I think life is two unhealthy extremes.

To loosely paraphrase the Bible there is the person who says they are without sin (who "deceives themselves") basically an arrogant jerk who can never admit their faults. Alot of the reason people shy away from churches is because there are entirely too many moral Pharisee types here. This is why Jesus, if they were here today, probably wouldn't attend church.
But that's not the whole story. One of the first things God says after humans eat that fruit (it's not actually an apple), is "who told you that you were naked?" Now this sounds like a throwaway line but it's not. The implication here is that (without the fruit) they would not have a superego telling them "I'm naked, I should be ashamed!" Honestly, guilt's most of sin right there, not the action itself.

In science, the superego is often held up as a moral paragon, while the id and ego are looked upon as lesser drives. But tbh, if we had a little less misplaced guilt and more "this was definitely wrong, but I'll see what I can do" less people would commit suicide. Which is why I don't share your optimism about people who show regret dying or being punished. Yes they shouldn't be, but honestly, most punishment is actually self-inflicted.

From my life, 2/3 of it was, despite not being Catholic (like the link above), a struggle with working to prove myself, constantly falling short, and feeling miserable led me to an eventual struggle with depression. It was only after I read two secular books (why I don't believe in "holy" books anymore, my healing was not from the hotel Gideon but from the psych section) which helped me significantly: When Panic Attacks and The Gifts of Imperfection. Both were saying exactly the same thing, that humans spend entirely too much energy trying to be perfect, and measure up to others.

For my work the day before Thanksgiving, we had to mark notecards with a green dot and stick them into packs or 20. Between OCD counting and recounting these damned cards for quantity, and and the fact that my coworker seemed to be flying through this while my hands were fumbling through each card trying to unstick them from the pile, it was slow going. I got screwed up precisely because I started to compare myself to her. But the point is, I was thankful we got the job done regardless.

It's easy to beat yourself up and stuff but that's part of despair.
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Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 49: Discussion
« Last post by sunphoenix on November 23, 2017, 09:19:36 am »
I guess.. I'm just a bit more forgiving?  I truly do not wish to see anyone die or be punished if they can admit that their lives have not been lived well, their choices and motivations clearly not in their or anyone else's actual best interested IF they are truly sorry and wish to try to make changes in their lives to make a concerted effort to make amends and become better people instead in their future.

I must believe in repentance and redemption... or what's the point in life?  We ALL have done things in our lives that in hindsight were bad choices, selfish, cruel or just plain thoughtless.  We all need forgiveness for the things we have done to others that we may not even realize... if there is no redemption, no chance of repenting from our misdeeds... if there is no forgiveness ~ then there truly is no hope.  I know I need forgiveness for the things I have done, either knowingly or worse... unwittingly.

My point is.. the Phalanx are just like everyone else..they are not perfect they are not without flaws. 

Moby is a professed Nihilst... that's a pretty bleak way to look at life nothing matters but the now of desire.. no future, no hope.. no true love.  Love is not a thing of only the now... it is an undying desire to put someone else's well being before your own.  We all need love.. lust can trick us with gratification.. but it is hollow in the end.. like a 'drug high' is far too soon over.. it leaves you with nothing to live on.  But love.. is a light in your heart that never fades and warms you in the darkest most hopeless moments.  Moby has nothing like that... so though I find ANY form of rape offensive.. I understand what she might be feeling... its not right but what I think she really needs is someone to love her unreservedly.  She thinks sex will satisfy the gaping hole in her heart.. and she is wrong.. its just all she knows.. cause she has no hope.. and no love.
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