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Messages - bulmabriefs144

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61
Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 48: Discussion
« on: June 06, 2017, 07:39:01 pm »
This is what happens when you don't go with the blessing of your benefactor.

They could have arranged a ride with Melter, maybe gotten some more info from Lehm, and had a nice "chat" with Marce. Now they have to wander the land on foot.

Well, unless Miss Kitty can manufacture a boat they can sail on. Hey Brion, is there a size or duration limit on the summons she can create? We know they can't be weapons, but well, nobody would know this stuff but you.

Also, everyone read this. https://faculty.washington.edu/smcohen/320/cave.htm The whole thing about seeing images.

62
Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 48: Discussion
« on: June 02, 2017, 09:26:39 pm »
I'm not sure "fairness" is what characterizes Maytag. She mainly cares about this, as a result of being around Bern (justice). She in terms of value system is roughly halfway between truth and justice, Lehm and Bern. But if I had to pin a trait on her, I would say determined curiosity. Unlike truth, she doesn't really care about the correct way things are. She cares about knowing about things, learning and having experiences. She describes pain on two occasions as "an interesting experience." (Once in Book 0 with Moss, the second time with 2nd phase) She seems to also be very interested in sex, particularly experimentation, dspite being the emotionless type (doesn't seem consistent with that personality).

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Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 48: Discussion
« on: May 30, 2017, 06:40:37 am »
I think the key to understanding Lehm's "monstrous" behavior is this.

(Let's use a non-government example)

Surely everyone wants to solve cancer, or have a car that runs on a renewable energy source. But if you invented say an easy method of controlling cancer (say, an exercise and diet method) or some source of energy that is so easy that it's a wonder that people haven't invented it before (in pretty muchevery case of someone researching cold fusion or perpetual motion, they pretty much committed career suicide), these are to do with the problem of having competition with the current system, since in the above method of cancer cure they aren't making money, and in the other case either it is effective and marketable, or it isn't. These are not competing technologies, they are new ideas (right or wrong) that change the status quo.

Whenever you expose something fishy about a system, those who are part of the old system go into denial mode and those who knew about it will create violence. Is this truth worth it?

The answer is a reluctant yes. We know that the Nazi system, most of the people were in the dark about gas chambers. This is what happens when people support a system that doesn't tell the whole truth.

Now, here's point. Yes, Lehm made actual physical monsters. Yes, Lehm's truth ruined lives (think about Maytag, wanting to compete in the contest, suddenly finding herself out of luck, with no knowledge of how she got there, and possibly with mutant limbs or something). Yes, Lehm possibly helped get rid of most of the leaders of a magical city, but making a super-mage.

 But... we currently have a government where healers can treat for free, only because of oppressively high taxes, and a criminal magical government that has actually killed people and messed with their minds to such a point where they can't even be sure what they saw was real. It in fact looked like half the room was under a mind fog spell. We have a police force that, given what we know of this system, probably quietly gets rid of people even those who pay their taxes, who don't particularly believe in magic. Lehm is trying to expose magic. Thing of the implications of this for a second, that he has to hide his lair, because the system is such that there were probably other eccentrics around but they all got arrested, even before the crime of creating monsters.
 Now on the other end, we have equally dystopic nation where people seem to have the right to do whatever, so long as it doesn't coerce or hurt another, but as we saw, an outsider like Bern is able to become desperate for medical treatment and have no money no options. When she tries to make them , she winds up fighting for her life to entertain people, and cheating on her lover to get out of the system. And after all of that, they don't keep their bargain and try to rope her in for more time.

These are the truth of the governments of Maytag and Bern's world. Exposing that such things are controlled by a system that isn't even real will unseat the ruling class, and cause violence and instability. But peace at the cost of ignorance ceases to be worthy when it causes needless deaths every day. The same system that creates the Qualia can create someone who has a healing factor and doesn't need to die. But it doesn't. Instead magic is used largely for commercial and security reasons.

64
Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 48: Discussion
« on: May 29, 2017, 08:29:22 pm »
For him, yes. But, recall, his mission is to bring the truth to the world. The other stuff is academic, the truth relevant to the world is that they are being deceived.

It's like, you could tell your soon to be girlfriend "I love you" and this is the truth. The truth that "I first met you when I was six and I have been watching you in disguise" may also be the truth, but it is truth that most people do not need to know. In fact, you would be worried about the effect of knowing such a truth, and the first truth is more relevant.

Thin Man's job is to expose the lie of the world, so as to undermine its power. The only reason the other stuff would be needed is if he wanted people involved personally in the study of reality. Most people will care less about this, and the more important issue, moving away from the deception of magic, will be accomplished. Plus the last issue (who did this) will likely be flushed out when people start trying to hunt qualia down. 

Which brings us to the last accusation "You were never on my side." Honestly, she was kidnapped, deceived, and made to do the bidding of someone she had no stake with. Considering this, she did still do her job. But Lehm's truth really isn't relevant to her. The truth she cares about freeing is Eye.

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Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 48: Discussion
« on: May 26, 2017, 08:08:27 pm »
"This world is not real" is not enough of a truth?


66
Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 48: Discussion
« on: May 24, 2017, 10:28:49 pm »
Actually, he seems to be telling the truth.

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Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 48: Discussion
« on: May 23, 2017, 04:02:33 pm »
She's got a point there.

Also, it makes very little sense that if you want truth to escape, you wipe people's minds when they leave. Why would you do that if you're concerned about the truth?  ???

68
Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 48: Discussion
« on: May 16, 2017, 03:45:40 pm »
Brion seems to almost always have 30 or 60 page chapters. 30 pages might be okay for this, actually, reading it again. Also, I have no idea how one manages to have a precise page length like that.

69
Flipside Discussion / Re: Mistake Thread
« on: May 13, 2017, 09:50:56 pm »
Studying grammar would prevent these mistakes.

Case in point, Thin Man say "who's" passion is the truth. Not all 's are possessives. In this case, who's means "who is" and "whose" is the possessive.

70
Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 48: Discussion
« on: May 13, 2017, 06:49:58 am »
"I won't let you experiment on her!"

"Wre're not gonna experiment on her. We're sending her to Charles Xavier's school to control her powers."

"Oh. Okay!"

71
Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 48: Discussion
« on: May 10, 2017, 10:26:35 am »
It's not to fool him, at least, it is to fool him but not to hide information. It's to make him blurt out or reveal that he knows exactly what is inside this room.

72
Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 48: Discussion
« on: May 10, 2017, 05:08:04 am »
Fifty Million Gold Darker (or is it Freed?  ;D )

73
Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 48: Discussion
« on: May 06, 2017, 01:20:42 am »
I'm liking the first four panels. It's like "not so tough now, huh?"  ;D

I suspect as much too. Also, if she realizes she CAN trust them, she'll probably try to acclimate (some of) them to the Storm.

I'm gonna read that story sunphoenix.

Third reaction, to do nothing. Of course, to do nothing is never truly to do nothing, there is a yin-yang seesaw of fear and fight. To nothing, plus fear is to be in shock. To do nothing plus fight is to face one's fear. And dead center, is to analyze one's fear. To still be afraid, and yet want to see beyond the storm.

I think the first part of the story is more impressive than the latter. It sounds like if you were in third phase, your best instinct to get you through intact would be concern for your sister.

As for me, I am very studious, but in terms of what everyone else seems to know, it always seems they have the important stuff figured out. Of course, sometimes they were wrong, becomoing ambitious about things that don't matter, but even the higher levrel lessons, when I became spiritual, I noticed most of the other people got it alot more.

There was a similar point of adjustment to physical darkness. But I took another approach. I at one point believed in elementalism (still do, but there's more important things out there). That things like Earth and Fire, had a sort of presence in the world and in our bodies. And stuff. Each of these had a sort of breathing style and a tai chi like kata, but anyway the point is... one night I decided to study Darkness. My fear of the dark never truly went away but I basically was at a hotel on vacation, and I decided to allow myself to become completely afraid of the dark, and then just study what I felt. Ummm, it was interesting, but didn't really change too much.

 What did was one day I was on a trip, and I got some of hymn stuck in my head. "In him there is no darkness at all, the night and the day are both alike..." It would appear that light and dark are opposites, but this isn't really what either Taoism or Christianity implies. Rather than light and dark being two extremes (fundies see it this way, nobody else does), Light is the unity of everything (all colors put together, all concepts put together even apparently opposite concepts), while Darkness, of the kind that includes pain and the despair of loved ones dying, is separation (again, you find this in the color wheel). That the reason we fear death is that there is a sense of never being able to see them again (Christianity teaches this as an illusion, while Taoism teaches reality itself is an illusion). The point that I glean from this, is that as I later discovered, Taoism had a number of states of existence (interestingly, Buddhism beat out Taoism for popularity, because they said basically nothing about an afterlife, but it is more personally interesting). Basically, thye have The Void
 (Wu-chi), then separation into opposites, and the Tao is everything INCLUDING separation, in cycles. Or as Sora claims "Kingdom Hearts is Light!" before closing the gate to keep out both the heartless and King Mickey. ...What? I'm a geek.

Also, hum the Smurfs song while reading panels one  through two then at three through five gradually switch to bass keys and whole notes. It cracked me up.

74
Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 48: Discussion
« on: May 04, 2017, 09:23:33 pm »
I have a theory. I do not believe that the Storm makes people violent. Just potentially violent.

It's like this. Remember the fight or flight instinct? It takes over when one is under absolute stress (research has shown there is actually a third instinct, to do nothing, to freeze or go into shock). In other words, the person basically becomes who they are when their public persona is under strain, when they are pushed to the limit, and their true personality shows through.

A person who is likely to run during extreme stress will run. Someone who is likely to turn violent under stress will also do so. So we would get to see the real Lehm, and have psycho maid flip out.

75
Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 48: Discussion
« on: April 28, 2017, 05:39:30 am »
Okaaay... WTF? Shades of Qtalda?  Who was that that just cast a spell reveling their presence if not identity... ok obviously a bad question we DON'T know who that was.  Who do you think that spellcaster was?  Qtalda or 'Crazy-Eyes'?  Clearly they were invisible and have been following Maytag's progress... though I'm unsure if they were just waiting outside to watch or if they actually have been following Maytag the whole time?

Or worse perhaps they were inside there with CS3 and Eye the whole time?!?

Uhhh? We saw her use Abstraction before, just not from that angle. It's a spell that grabs things. Nothing more.

She was trying to pull them closer to her. Which could have resulted in a split. May needs to find some way of calming people down, or she won't be able to talk to Thin Man or Bern or anyone again.

I'd gladly pay $120 for something. But not $3 monthly. Recurring payments have a way of creeping up on you.

76
Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 48: Discussion
« on: April 26, 2017, 03:32:22 am »
why are they running from her? Maytag trusted her for a while, its not clearly explained why she doesn't any more

It's vaguely pointed out by Miss Kitty (CS3) that when she wakes up she will not be able to defend them. That is, when people are totally swallowed by despair, they have a tendency to become violent.

I think I saw a graph at one point that may have had something to do with Maslow's needs, but it talked instead about fear and despair caused if these needs are systematically stripped away. When a person hasn't love/belonging, they begin to feel distant and afraid. When they haven't safety, they start to be paranoid and become prone to pain, when even they basic physiological needs are stripped, they go into despair, and out from it they sometimes become violent.

77
Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 48: Discussion
« on: April 22, 2017, 06:01:07 pm »
"You go on ahead Eye. I'll stay behind and have a little 'talk' with Miss Kitty."  ;D

I think she figured out what's up.

78
Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 48: Discussion
« on: April 16, 2017, 05:00:10 pm »
Quote
for a guy with nothing in his head, he sure has a terrible poker face

[terriblepunwarning]Yeah, it's like she can see right through him.[/terriblepunwarning]

(You can start groaning now)

79
Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 48: Discussion
« on: April 10, 2017, 11:47:19 am »
If she's walking towards her, will it just kinda nudge her back or will she be able to pass through?

80
Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 48: Discussion
« on: April 03, 2017, 05:35:29 pm »
Uh oh. Time to kill the kitten.  :'(

81
Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 48: Discussion
« on: March 28, 2017, 06:21:10 am »
I know she was pranking us, but on some level, I get the impression this is true. That there is something about her that is outside of limits.

82
Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 48: Discussion
« on: March 21, 2017, 08:24:08 am »
I think it's because she was taking credit for something that was ultimately a gamble. It's entirely possible that it still wouldn't have worked, and with the knife in hand, that might've been the end of her.

Maybe the implication here is that May doesn't feel amazing, but is taking credit for it anyway.

She might also ask about some third thing. Memories, senses, ummm was there another one?

Update: Oh right, emotions. This kinda goes into an interesting line of questioning. She basically is a masochist, so yeah she enjoys pain. But here's the odd thing. It's a logical trap.

  • Maytag, as part of her natural state, has learned to accept pain. She basically, on some level, enjoys it. This, however, is a conscious preference, built upon smaller unconscious past issues.
  • She has entered an area that steals memories and distorts senses. Normally, something that she has learned to love would not be retained, because whatever past events would also be wiped out. That is, the acceptance technique is a learned skill, so it gets wiped out.
  • Since the acceptance technique is gone, she should not be smiling. In fact, either she is numb as a result of being in agony and not remembering how to use her technique, or she is able to feel things and as a result could be affected by the despair.
  • These two are apparently mutually exclusive. That is, if she was in such pain that despair could not touch her, she should be unable to smile.
  • That she was able to smile effectively means she maintained a sense of herself despite the effect of the Storm supposedly draining out her memories. This should be impossible.

We have a seen people with magic, and we have seen those altered by Thin Man, and we have seen people with natural special abilities. In the bed & breakfast, she was able to resist a charm effect, even while being immersed in a liquid. That is, she has physiological as well as psychological resistance to certain magical effects. I wonder if there is something more to this, though?
 


83
Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 48: Discussion
« on: March 20, 2017, 08:23:23 pm »
Really?  :o

It's a culture reference. Pinocchio?

(You were joking, right?)

Or he's about to reveal how odd it was that she was able to analyze all of this in such a short amount of time.


84
Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 48: Discussion
« on: March 15, 2017, 09:11:06 am »
Probably.

I'm just finding it extremely interesting the idea of her heading into a shopping center.  :'(

She will literally have to move about constantly, or have people get PTSD from her presence.

:fear, pain, horrible images: "Hi, I'd like a pastry." (walks away) :horrible images, pain, fear:

85
Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 48: Discussion
« on: March 13, 2017, 03:36:55 am »
Cat is A source of magic. Not THE source of magic. Important dinstinction. Read her name. Cybele Surrogate 3. She is a surrogate for Cybele, one of (at least) three. Cybele, may be THE source of magic. CS3 is just a surrogate.

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Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 48: Discussion
« on: March 10, 2017, 12:15:10 pm »
Eye looks like she's gonna choke on her cookies at that last bit.  ;D

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Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 48: Discussion
« on: March 09, 2017, 10:05:32 am »
Eye is the girl.

"Come to the dark side. We have cookies." Made apparently out of thin air.

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Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 48: Discussion
« on: March 07, 2017, 05:45:35 pm »
But what about Crest? We miss... actually, I'm not that interested in him.

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Flipside Discussion / Re: Flipside Patreon
« on: March 06, 2017, 03:21:00 am »
Plushies, toys, and stuff. Comic volumes and possibly a Part 1 anthology (first ten volumes?)

I could help you make a lightweight d20 system (somehow Flipside seems well suited for an urban RPG) which you could do a boxed set if they give the top offering. It jiust seems well-suited given the major worldbuilding.

I totally want a Eye and CS3 plushie.

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Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 47: Discussion
« on: March 04, 2017, 02:46:08 pm »
Read that passage again. The intense fear was a distraction. While you do need determination to get past the fear, the actual issue is a sort of palpable strain on the body. She got through by building physical strength through walking around.

I found the page in question: http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=2647 "the stress is what makes it so difficult to move in dark cell".
Maybe I missed the part where they mentioned a physical barrier. I guess that the kind of fear in phase 1 is something of the extreme, even impossible to imagine. It should probably have more to do with general fitness and heart condition than body type. Anyways, I don't think it's that.

Quote
I find it interesting that Thin Man's qualia theory appears to be a dead end.
Indeed, or maybe May hasn't asked the right questions yet. It's all too freaky still.

A few things.

Basically, I think I would put it like this. It's basically like agoraphobia. When you go outside with such a condition after being a shut-in for months/years, the stress creates a physical sensation (high blood pressure, actual muscle strain, etc). But now that I see the other comments, I have a different theory about everything.

The qualia aren't something known to the two inside. This tells me Eye, at least, is innocent. And possibly that that term was something coined by Lehm and not their proper name. If she showed the painting CS3, she would like be like "Oh yeah, that's a..."

 Back to the barrier. I suspect that not everyone enters the Dark Cell the same way. As in, probably when the original carrier dies, the Dark Cell opens up somewhere and random people enter, only to become the new host. The space closes around them, giving them despair, which they can't overcome, and they are trapped inside the cell with CS3. They can't of course leave unless someone switches off with them.
 
Which brings us to our side note. Cybele Surrogate Three. I suspect, surrogate as in, a replacement for the original Cybele. If I had to guess, I would say that Cybele (whatever her full name is) is likely the creator of the qualia, and there are three (at least) synthetic lifeforms made as substitutes (surrogates) to house her knowledge set and act as company for the one trapped in the Dark Cell. The interesting part is, CS3 is probably also jailer. She gave her back her eyes, hoping that it will trap her. So yeah, more likely Phase 3.

So basically, it isn't so much that she is trapped so much as the black aura surrounding her makes it unthinkable for her to leave (she'd be taking a huge zone of negativity with her. Usually, that makes it a "stay until you die, or find someone worthy to replace you" issue. However, all of this changes if May is able to somehow suppress or subdue the negative energy.   

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