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511

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion

« on: May 23, 2015, 04:54:31 pm »

(I'm a transwoman, early transition, but thank you. I think I relate to Bern alot because she's sorta a "gruff" quiet woman)

Her. It smacked of abuse but it happening at the same day this came out completely soured my view of the comic. It felt like Bern won against me. It took much of the day to realize that I was looking at this wrong, and while I am certainly flawed, she didn't know me past a few weeks. After taking a better look at myself, I was able to "counter" my initial assessment.

Urgh, I do not want to talk about that. The degrading part isn't even the worst part, it was like zero privacy, so I'd get phone calls in the middle of the night, or while I was with my parents. Most of them would only agree if I gave them my address (refused), so 2/3 of it was time wasters, and most of the rest either were trying to scam/lowball or such freaks I didn't want to do anything with them.

512

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion

« on: May 22, 2015, 04:20:32 pm »

Each to his own Miss Briefs... but I personally like seeing Bernedette on the offensive for once!

Guess he underestimated her will to not be underated.  If that blow was fatal.. he possibly still could be saved with magic... {shrug}...

I don't think the big guy was a bully.. he never gloated over any hit he made on her .. he saw her as a true challenge for his skill and power someone who had finally pushed him to his limits... and beyond.  If he survives... there is no reason they might not be friends.

That looks like not a heart wound but a blow to the stomach. If he calls it quits here, he can probably get healing in time. If not, depending on whether it hit major organs, could be fatal.

There are different types of bullies, actually. A bully is a person who does one of two things, usually.

• They abuse others in some way.
• They force others to do something they don't want to do.

Yes, he does see her as a worthy opponent. However, did he force her to do something? Yes. By keeping going for his stupid pride, he effectively is forcing her to consider lethal action, something that is disgusting to her. Now let's talk about the other category.

http://www.projectpave.org/6-types-abuse

There are 6 major types of abuse, aside from self-inflicted like drug abuse:

• Physical
• Economic
• Verbal
• Emotional
• Mental
• Sexual

Pushing you into a corner, and making you feel like you're betraying yourself, is likely mental or emotional abuse. I'm not sure. Anyway, I'm feeling a little better about this comic, I was having a really crappy day (a friend that I work together with basically told me I'm worthless or something, and it was tied to work so I was left in the lurch. I couldn't really enjoy this comic until late in the afternoon).

513

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion

« on: May 22, 2015, 04:50:49 am »

Guys, I'm not sure I can keep reading this comic. I should be thrilled for Bern, but... I'm not.

I'm not really cheering for the other guy, either, because he's a bully. I just plain hate this battle, and that it's dragging on like this.

514

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion

« on: May 20, 2015, 05:30:12 pm »

She's not so much "thinking she knows what he's gonna do," so much as watching his body movements. As long as she keeps her eye on him, and moves her sword, even if he tries to fake her out, she can still react. That's what reading an enemy is. That said, she picked an awfully late time to start, since she needs to simultaneously figure out how best to use the swords, while reading him, meaning even if his movements are correctly predicted, if she moves her swords wrong, it could blow up in her face.

I think she should adjust her style to block with the back sword, and dodge his weapon at the last second with the leading sword (throwing all the force into the blocking sword. It is probably easier to add power late than pull punches at the last second. If she can randomly alternate which sword blocks, she keeps him guessing and has an advantage.

I was on TvTropes on the FlipSide page, and I saw this. Kinda cracked me up.



May is Maytag Month.

515

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion

« on: May 18, 2015, 11:24:43 am »

So Bern's worked out his current tactic - now to work out a counter. I wonder if she could use one blade to halt the progress of the remainder of his weapon while using the other to cut off the stub, thus leaving him with the hilt only, and in subsequent moves progressively shorten the hilt?

At that point, she'd almost certainly need to bash his forehead with the flat of her blades to knock him out, as in hand-to-hand combat his size would have a huge advantage over her.

Anyone else feeling a whole Yin-Yang vibe here? The more we want Bern to adapt here, the more he instead adapts. The more we want her to find a way to counter, the more she does. Not to mention the whole twin swords thing, and her being defense/him being attack.

Couldn't she lead with one sword, extending it out to block the attack, and sweep with the other? Urgh, but it's not her strength, it's his! I would call leading with the sword a good technique (blocks both, and he has to make a new attack), except that it probably always takes the last sword attack into account.

In all likelihood, option two is a no-go, since it seems like the swords are not designed to use her strength, they absorb kinetic energy from their target. In all likelihood, if she attacks first, they might deal no damage. Which would be disastrous, as it would tell an already savvy fighter way too much about her.

Option 1 would be a good option, but for the fact that she currently has a bum leg and can't do her patented perfect dodge.

Since both options are out, option 3 would be psychological warfare! Use the fact that he seems to be fixated on his pride and being a winner to egg him on into attacking with force. If he does something sloppy because he gets mad or impatient, he's basically defeated himself. That said, I have never seen Bern use psychological warfare, and I'm not sure she even knows how to taunt.

Alternatively, she learns to study him and figure out his attacks. And block one handed. Given that it's his force, she doesn't likely need more than that, so she can use the other to multitask, countering only when he uses force. It might slow things to a crawl however, so she she use her time to figure out his style.

516

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion

« on: May 18, 2015, 03:36:17 am »

Or just hand over hand scissors attack (they seem to charge the other when the one blocks, so she could probably keep cutting) until the guy has nothing left to hold. Then kick him in the balls, and walk off. 

(Alternatively, once he loses his weapon because he's extending forward he's off balance, and she can just pull her weapon back and hit tennis racquet style with the flat of her sword)

That will put a quick end to his "pride".

In terms of size advantage, basically as we picked up from that punch, any attack he throws is converted into energy. Sorta Kirby Right Back At Ya deal going on (sorry, all I could think of at the moment). The big advantage he has now over her is reach, he has  one fist and one staff, and he could potentially switch things up to play with her ability to dodge. The fact that the weapon is now a stub works in his favor too, as attack can come from virtually any direction. Hands and feet have a predictable reach gap where they overlap at different points, giving her advantage.

517

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion

« on: May 16, 2015, 04:50:14 pm »

In all likelihood, the criminal justice system is run by three different corporations:

The entertainment industry vso to speak (remember those three things she could do?)

The arena.

And the prison.

All three are effectively money making operations, as in, the prison system reduces marks, but the real goal is the work program. The workers are working effectively for free, the owner is making all the profit (it might even be rigged so food and board adds marks). We've seen the arena and the sort of emotional pressure they can exrt on people. And the entertainment industry is kinda sick.

In other words, warden probably was like "just one battle and you're free" to these guys. These guys are probably in a bad position because they are too strong for weaker but too weak for S rank, so theyre stuck. So they entered the battle thinking it was a way out, but the warden placed odds on her. Best  thing that can happen is that this guy can wake her up to that this whole thing is a rigged game, and they can put their heads together.

Nah, screw it. This guy talks about pride. But how can you talk about pride, when you think lethal force, and three against one are decent tactics? That you use cheap garbage like kicking sand in people's faces? If this were a cooking competition, and they spiked the food, would they call these winners? Or cheaters? Bern's pride comes from her friends. Her family. And faith in her skill and her standards. Her pride is precisely what won't allow her to sink to his level. And she'll win, fair and square (the swords seem cheap, but they are only as good as she is). Whatever feints or deceptions he uses, she'll shrug them off and keep going. They may be alot alike. But she can do this, and I believe in her.  She can talk to this guy after she's defeated him.

518

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion

« on: May 13, 2015, 05:04:38 pm »

...

That went over my head, sorry. Brion is cool. I've texted him by email before.

Here's my take.

You guys all said, "this is a deus ex machina" weapon, and cheap win, cheap win. But it's not. The actual struggle is within Bern herself.

Think of Bern in modern terms. Bern is like someone who in today's society would refuse to compete with others on the grounds that somewhere, someone is more deserving of that job, and probably would starve without it. So in a competitive work environment, they always lose. Nevermind that they may actually be the most deserving, the only way it happens is in a super-corporation that hires tons of people, and they work to keep their job (results may vary). Now, you have outsiders looking in at her, and they're like "she has no guts" or that she expects a job to fall into her lap. Nah, it's not like this.

Bern is a pacifist. She doesn't mind cutting off arms, because a person can still technically live with just one arm. But she wants to, if at all possible (maybe not), avoid seriously hurting people. She also can't stand the idea of competing gladiator style. That said, I don't pin her as a morally stupid person. She'd be (mostly) okay with someone else doing killing, it's her personal oath. She also would be okay with fighting as cooperation, as in, if she could talk the thug in front of her into it, it possibly wouldn't matter that he is the worst sort of criminal. She would work with him to try to escape this place.

Bern needs to adapt to survive, same as the thug. However, she wants to do it without compromising her dearly-held beliefs. So she will need to adjust her fighting style to win without being ashamed later. This is why this battle is taking a long time, despite having a powerful sword, she has the mentality of Kenshin Himura, without a sword that automatically is blunt edged. Given that the swords seem to absorb somehow, maybe using moves that are simultaneous attack and blocks will be effective. Or something else. Bern will need to do what she needs to to survive. But I do not believe this is what she needs to, or Bern would be a warrior like everyone else. Bern is Bern.

 

519

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion

« on: May 13, 2015, 03:38:01 am »

But here's the thing. We've adapted to culture past the Code of Hammurabi. Most of us don't even know that culture existed. I wear the hamsa however, which dates back to around this era (along with its ties to, well, practically every religion including Islam, Judaism, Buddhism).

At the very least, we have heard from Gandhi and others "an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."

Okay, sure, people like this guy can try to satisfy their blood debts. And that's fine, this is a free world.

But being a free world, isn't the hope we live for that people don't have to live like this? That Bern has a choice? That's what she's fighting for. Heh, a warrior for kindness.

That said, Bern's gone from frightened to pissed. Look at the very beginning of this battle and this. Likely she's gonna knock him across the room.

520

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion

« on: May 09, 2015, 04:23:29 pm »

Blue.

I guess next limbs will come off and flipside will go all monty python black knight on us.

Bit late for that. Both Mr. I-Beam and Yo-yo girl lost an arm already.

As for the "murder is wrong" thing. Murder is ALWAYS wrong. No exceptions. The death penalty is NOT murder.

You, uhhh just made one. By putting a fancy label on a word. Tell me, what is the difference between murder in revenge, sentencing someone to death through court proceedings, and killing in war? Not much. Someone was alive and had something going for them. Now they're dead, and their story is over. You've killed them.

Fact: the same physical action is employed for all three occasions, war, justice, or murder. There is fundamentally no difference besides the words. "I want you dead" vs "You are guilty, and sentenced to death" vs "It's war, so you have to die because you're the enemy." You can kill someone or you can spare them. But be honest about it.

 It is the taking of a guilty criminal's life as punishment for a specific crime, and all the way back to the code of Hamurabi, rape is an offense that warrants the death penalty. Even the second commandment specifically allows for the death penalty. "He who sheds innocent blood shall be slain by human hands."

No it doesn't. The original 10 commandments do not state this. This is the Mosaic Code. Last I checked, we neither care about women wearing the pants of men, nor kosher diet, nor mixing fibers in clothing. This law is not directly tied to the 10 commandments, and even if it was, this is a rationalization. A person shall be slain by human hands, mebbe. But it never said they must. It is also written "vengeance is mine." Bern very much has a choice in the matter.

The death penalty requires a little something called "due process." That is, bringing forth evidence, witnesses and delivering judgement from a higher power. A man running up and killing someone because he THINKS (or "knows") a guy raped his daughter would be homicide, a lesser form of murder, and could itself be punishable by death.

Self-defense is not murder. Someone breaks into your house, he's not there to deliver a check from Ed Mc Mahon. He's there to steal, KILL, and destroy. You still don't get to chase him down and kill him if he flees, however. Someone comes at you with a weapon, and you fight back, resulting in his death, it's not murder.

Because something is reasonable (and yes you have this right) does not make it the only option. A guy breaks into your house, you can club him until he leaves, or sic dogs on him.

Soldiers killing enemy soldiers on the battlefield is not murder. It's war. And both armies are fighting to survive. Combatants firing rockets into a civilian dwelling, or deliberately targeting unarmed non-combatants IS murder.

Again, you have delusions that there is a dinstinction. Call things by their proper name.

http://blog.independent.org/2013/02/07/now-we-know-war-is-murder/


Extremists running into a civilian establishment seeking to kill as many people as possible is not "holy." It's murder. Even if they try to "justify" it by claiming "provocation" afterwards, by pointing to a set of "laws" that isn't even written down. (The Koran does NOT say "go forth and kill everyone who utters the name mohammad, or dares draw a picture of his likeness," for example.)

Muslims believe that they are at war, and civilians are a threat to their way of life. They will have children who they will teach their way of life. Either realize that war is evil, but something you do in hopes that future generations will benefit, or stop kipping yourself and do not go to war.

As for Bern's options? She's already cut off his arm and left deep gashes in his chest, and he keeps coming! (Not to mention destroying his weapon.)

Also, remember her style is almost exclusively counter attacks. It is very difficult for her to do anything preemptive.

He's also extremely "proud," determined, and believes he has a license to kill, or die trying. Bern's in a really hard place right now, and I don't envy her for a moment.

And for once this entire post, I agree.

If he goes black knight, I'm probably changing the channel. "It's just a flesh wound."

521

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion

« on: May 08, 2015, 04:46:25 am »

Bern is actually way more black and white than I am. I'm just incredibly stubborn and stuff I disagree with, I really really hate. Not so much because it's wrong but because it's wrong for me. Which frankly, is all something needs to be to reject it anyway.  The reason Bloody Mary is a monster not because she hurt someone she cared about. It's because of her fighting style. Bern explained this. Humans use weapons. Monsters use teeth and claws. She wasnt calling her a "monster" she was stating a fact, her blade deals with beasts differently.  Because they have different physiology and cutting one up is a bit more okay.

Yes bern is "off balance" (pffft), but she's loads cooler than the knight with the eyepiece. She doesn't tend to make judgement calls on the rest of humanity, her morality seems strictly self centered. As in, aside from wanting exclusive relationship, May could go have orgies, but she sits that out. Which is precisely why she'd get jealous, she doesn't give herself the same rights as she gives others.

In terms of Polly, I don't think she has had time to look around, you know?  Not when some guy is attacking and won't let you have a moments peace to just look around and see stuff. She won't bend and break because this situation is actively encouraging her to do stuff unpleasant, like murder.

Aversion to murder does not have to be a black and white mentality. You could run into people who say murder is wrong "except" if they rape my daughter. But there you go. That's making exceptions. To me, the idea of someone making me into something I'mnot, yea it makes me throw up inside my mouth. And if their intent were to make me into some violent killer, it would not be "rigid" morality to want to stand firm against this crap, it would be something baser like disgust. I'm not sinking to this level, even if they manage to kill me. She has to find a good "disable all" technique that simply takes him out of the battle without letal force. Or just kill his sword and punch him out.

Actually, I wouldn't want to see her cheat, either. But I do want to see her facing her problem of seeing things in absolute black and whites.  Nude art must be something sexual (and therefore bad?!).  Bloody Mary hurt someone I cared about, so she must be a Monster.  I'd have to re-read to see what she thinks of cheating - I kind of remember her saying she knew about Maytag cheating on her but stayed with her anyway, during Suspira's bitchy spell reveal moment - but I still get a sense of Bernadette's character being very righteously judgemental sometimes, in a bad way.  I like that she's committed to being a "good person" by however she defines that standard.  There seem to be too few of those in this comic, of the main characters who seem to give off the vibe of wanting to actively be "good guys" I count Bernadette and Crest.  I thought rejecting her dream of becoming a knight to stay with Maytag was a real step in the direction of character growth, away from those judgemental tendencies.  But I haven't seen that sort of growth re: her attitude towards sexuality.  It's complicated I guess - I want to see Bernadette becoming more open-minded and forgiving, but I don't want to see her lose her core values or suddenly be down with engaging in a threesome or whatever.

I don't see that sort of interesting personal growth happening in this arena arc.  If anything, the whole "I can't bend or break!" declaration while Polly was going to the wall for her over there really annoys me.  As I said before, why wasn't she like that in the cell?  It's almost hypocritical to find her resolve now.  When she was fighting Elvis in that enchanted castle, she was ready to give up and die (and let Maytag and the others die too) because her fighting style didn't work, rather than lower her standards and use other people as meatshields to win.  Here, she's a different person.  All she does is lose a little sleep, shed a few guilty tears and get saved by her dad's magic swords, which was apparently all it took to recover her confidence.  I haven't even got the sense that she's taking into account Polly's human shielding, as if she forgot about all of that now that she has the swords.   Of course this chapter isn't over yet, so hopefully I will be eating my words later on.  But I'm still not a happy camper yet. 

You totally need to sing this song (from the Sleepaway Camp series)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vjJjlBduQk

As I see it, Bern has a few perfectly viable nonlethal options. I dunno why this fight is dragging on so long, besides that she's off her game.

• She can hamstring him. She doesn't need to cut through the legs to do this, just the joints or whatever.
• She can knock him out with the flat of her sword. Best option, as it means he can viably  challenge other people.
• She can block and push, knocking him against the wall.
• She can break his sword, then punch him out.
• Kick him hard in the balls.
• She can break his sword and cut his fingers.

All of these will end the battle without making him die afterwards.

Yeah, I appreciate keeping one's ethics. But she needs to stop dragging her feet and end this before he forces her to do something rash.

522

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion

« on: May 06, 2015, 05:01:17 am »

Yeah, and the really funny thing is, Bern doesn't appear to have pride, warrior or otherwise.  She just fights to stay alive, and defend others.

So it's kinda a contest between big time A/S rank guy who can't let it go that she's beating him, and small time Bern who just wants to go home and doesn't really care if she wins or loses.

Bern's not a warrior.  She's a knight.  A protector.  Knight doesn't equal warrior.

I said that. In my earlier post (that mods saw fit to collapse rather than simply asking me to change)1.

Bern is a knight, so she's not suited for this life. So yea, she doesn't care about warrior pride. And doesn't need to adapt.

As to the other post, I think he's just making up excuses. Swallow your pride, say "okay, it's not really working" and call it a day.

I think the whole "cheat/don't cheat" thing is an example of the very black and white morality that we are criticizing her for. She should talk to Maytag, and they should face this together. Maybe Maytag is okay with an exclusive deal, maybe it'll break the thing up (tad hypocritical), maybe it would be a reason to reconsider the stance on an open relationship. Their love is still developing and growing, and it might be something they can discuss.

I uh might need to ask copyright permission so that I can print this picture out. And place it by my bed. And uhhhh....

523

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion

« on: May 04, 2015, 11:38:22 am »

Yeah, and the really funny thing is, Bern doesn't appear to have pride, warrior or otherwise.  She just fights to stay alive, and defend others.

So it's kinda a contest between big time A/S rank guy who can't let it go that she's beating him, and small time Bern who just wants to go home and doesn't really care if she wins or loses.

524

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion

« on: May 04, 2015, 11:27:46 am »

(Fair enough. I don't really want to talk to him anyway, even to apologize)

I would assume people deserve their dreams because I have the experience of doing desperate things to achieve one's dreams. Having tried to do prostitution to make ends meet (ironically enough, it was around the time that Bern got her choices; not a prostitute now, it took one time and I was like "nope"), I know that some people do very extreme stuff to try to make their dreams happen. Theft, murder, whatever. I'm not qualified to judge them.

Also because of Once Upon A Time where the villains are less outright evil, and more pathetic and selfish.

In all likelihood, there is very little chance that these people were paragons of virtue. But we cannot assume anything about them without knowing the full story.

-Old man may have gotten teased on too many times because of his age.
-The girl may have grown up in a brothel, and volunteered for this for money (I'm sure some gladiators are paid, if they don't have any marks left, and want to stay)
-The guy could be disgraced military. Or maybe he caught his wife sleeping with someone, and cut them in half.

We don't think they are saints, but dehumanization is how people manage to easily kill one another. There's many sides to a story.

525

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion

« on: May 04, 2015, 04:58:35 am »

(Post removed by moderator.  I said I wanted name calling to stop, which includes justifying it.  Unless you're posting a straight apology, please don't bring it up anymore.)

526

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion

« on: May 01, 2015, 03:04:31 pm »

I admire his persistence. However, I wish he'd leave her alone.

Whatever he's been promised or threatened with, I think I'd rather see her help him with it, than put him down like a rabid dog or something.

Everyone deserves their dreams, including him. It is sick that these two have to compete to the death for not even what they want, but what they need.

527

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion

« on: May 01, 2015, 05:23:45 am »

Ignore this troll. Supposedly Bern is a leech for having friends.

This unfortunately reflects something I've felt about myself all my life, that because I was scraping by, and needed food stamps, or that because I was close to my family versus being some full-time businessperson, that I was doing something inferior. But you know what? It's time to stop hating people for not  conforming to your narrow idea of success. In this world, there are people who make a living at a job outside their house. There are also people like authors and eBay sellers, that make money at their home. There are also people who make money through sex trade, not just through prostitution but through legal dating for pay sites. There are people like the Travelers (gypsies) who have no fixed home. There are religious groups that go door to door.

There are many realities of life. That Bern is somehow not facing reality because she doesn't sell out to your opinion of life... Of course, she needs to stop playing around and accept that swords can't block magic. Wonderful idea. Maybe you'd like to apologize when she gets burnt to a cinder because she refused to draw her swords because reality is that people compete and magic swords aren't real. Uhhh you're confusing reality show with reality. In a reality show, the winner of a contest wins a truck, and nobody else is considered. In reality, the loser of the contest might use their own methods to get a truck.

Now I'm gonna talk about change and growth. Bern has clearly been developing and growing through this entire battle. But because she hasn't adapted to this fighting you are unhappy. Not all change is desirable. You think it would be awesome to see her go all bloodthirsty but this isn't who she is, and this place is sick. Normal people fight to survive. Crazed people ruthlessly fight even people who are not a threat to them, like a big lawyer coming down hard on some small rural entrepreneur because country people don't deserve to be successful. She is making it work, so you rule it's a "cheat" because she couldn't possibly be successful without doing whatever method you think is the only approved one. Except she did. And she won. Give it a rest already.

In terms of change being bad, we routinely think being at the top of a corporate ladder is the  ideal of success. Is it? We have a small businessman who has work-life balance. He has the girl, he has a steady job, and he has friends and hobbies. There's an offer to go to the city where he would leave all of that behind for more money in the short term (but the job is highly competitive and will probably fire him later) so I assume as part growth and change he should naturally take the job according to you.

Bern is not a vampire or a leech. She is a decent person trying to remain a decent person in a climate that is void of decent people (like a person who believes in justice being surrounded by crooked lawyers).

528

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion

« on: April 30, 2015, 03:57:34 am »

Unfortunately, the fact of the matter is, not only is she probably playing into their hands (firm resolve is probably where most of these thugs started) but there is nowhere she can go. What, you think leaving the scene will get them to leave her alone? No, they'd send enforcers after her to get her back. And if raw force failed, they might use trickery. Make her think she's safe but they bring the colosseum to her.

I'm not advocating she suck it up and put up with this. I'm saying she request to be taken off fighting duty. It may take a few more of these, but  ironically prison might be her way out. She is a hard worker, and would rather have done that, except Polly thought this was an easy fix. I don't blame Polly though.

The sad truth is that while she probably has leverage and warden could be challenged the same isn't true of Polly. Hell, Bern could probably even challenge the Warden for her freedom (the warden seems smarter than those chumps and might put up a fight). Actually this is what she should do, forgo prison and simply wager her freedom with the warden to get out of here fast. This would not be escaping but winning fair and square.

Unfortunately, Polly has a number of men and women to satisfy, plus more fighting. She'll have to leave Polly behind, at least temporarily in order to see Maytag.

529

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion

« on: April 28, 2015, 04:34:20 am »

Or she's gonna get out by asking the warden if now that she's A Rank to transfer the rest of her marks to prison. Being fugitive means she'd be chased and such. That said she could probably ask the warden to challenge her fpr the rest of her marks, and given both her new popularity and her power he might be pressured to accept. If some of the strongest got beaten like chumps, it may be better for him in the long run. After a few rounds or her doing mostly guarding, he'd probably transfer her anyway if only to not have severed limbs all over the place.

The sword is not a deus ex machina. It isn't invincible and didn't come out of nowhere.  There are clearly defined traits of the sword, making it likely only as strong as her enemies attacks. If she just swings first, it's a normal sword, as we saw in the fight versus the staff guy. And its of no use if people outflank her and she can't block.

Magical items have traits that doesn't mean they are invincible. I have magical stones in a D&D campaign. They are overpowered, but by no means invincible. They give sorta pack tactics and creation once a day. I set them up in the story as shards of a larger stone which controlled reality. It has drawbacks, like  not being able to work if the party member is hit by a psychic attack (this turn) or while the target is affected by rage, insanity, or fear. It also only activates if the party takes advantage of it, because I seldom remember to apply it.

530

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion

« on: April 27, 2015, 05:26:54 pm »

Aaand again, as always, Bernadette is rescued by another person.

She does not grow.
She does not adapt.
She does not face reality.

Someone else is again getting the coals from the fire for her (in the latest round it's first Warden who offers the "chance" without Bernadette doing anything to get (not even speaking of "earn" it), then it's Polly who pledges to pay the price for the "chance", now this time her father who shows up with the Deus-Ex-Machina-Sword).

I'm very interested in where this plot arc is going, so far I have no clue. The message so far merely is "Bernadette is carried through everything by other people".

You seem to have a very narrow idea of what reality is, then.  It is not simply your dog eat dog programming, it's all of this. And people can make whatever choices in life they wish.

As for the latter. All of us owes our lives to other people. Bern is honest about it. I mean, did you get that job without the teachers who taught you? You can work as hard as you with, but unless you have people to buy food and clothes from, the only way to not be naked is to sew your own. We can talk about "strength" and "independence" but it's crap. We owe our lives to our parents, we owe our happiness to our friends who support our dreams, we owe our jobs to our employers or clients. If you think you're perfect by yourself, you are kidding yourself.

Bern doesn't need to grow according to your standards. She is growing according to hers.

She doesn't need to adapt according to this place. It's a hellhole, if you get used to it, you're doing it wrong.

And yes, The Person Above Me. It is good to have friends. They make even a crappy place livable. Friends are people you can count on when you're in need, and you know they'll take your call.

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Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion

« on: April 26, 2015, 07:28:19 pm »

Oh for pete's sake. What have these guys got to gain from this? If Bern hits them any harder, they're likely to die. Still, they're grabbing her legs, trying to yank the swords out of her hands, and just plain fighting dirty.

What's worse is that while the "death penalty" seems to be lifted for them, there is no guarantee that the same rules apply to Bern. So if she kills them, even accidentally, she will get penalized despite the fact that they just keep overexerting themselves.

They are probably promised freedom. But seriously, what freedom is worth another person's life? Seriously.

The thing is, he could not possibly disarm her. Why? Because of the nature of the swords.

When the swords hit the fist, the other sword glowed. In other words, the sword transfers the energy of the attack through the other sword. As in, a fireball shifts to the other sword. If he tries to disarm her, it's his strength being used. She's not lightening it, he's using his own strength against himself.

She needs to knock these two away, and then put a quick nonlethal end to the battle.

532

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion

« on: April 23, 2015, 04:08:42 pm »

Here is where I yell at *Bern* to remember that she's still in a fight, for Maytag's sake, move yer ass and kick some already.

That's debatable. He's still standing but as far as the crowd is concerned , they're beaten. He's just embarrassing himself against someone who doesn't want to hurt him, and probably could just ball-kick him. I think Bern would prefer it if he conceded, and they both moved on. 

And yes, it looks like it transfers energy into the other sword. When the two swords are crossed, it creates a feedback loop that cancels energy. Given how powerful that sword is, I don't think attacking him directly would be good if she wants to do a no kill principle. It would probably knock him across the room at the very minimum of pressure.

Update since new comic: Yeah... these guys are punks. Bern would prefer them all knocked out and challenging other people, they're stubborn, and won't give up until they hurt her or she seriously hurts them. He managed to bloody her face and that should leave a scab for awhile. She needs like shield effect, that can knock them away without having their blood on her hands. But this might end badly. 

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Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion

« on: April 22, 2015, 04:39:20 am »

Oh I've one thing to add. I was watching Berserk, and was struck by the (seemingly unrealistic) pain tolerance. So I looked up about the berserk culture, and found an interesting video on the wiki (tvtropes of course). It was called the myth of on hit kills.

Basically, the body is a funny thing.  Some people can die from minor bullets. Some people can have freaking sword wounds from shoulder to heart and keep going until they win the fight, okay now I can die.  This is basically the effects of adrenaline. My point?

Well two things, she may not have killed them, so they could live on for awhile. Hopefully not coming back to bully her (hey it'd be great if she earned their respect and later they could stand up for her, but I'm not holding my breath), but that means that she wouldn't have the guilt to live with. This was a deathmatch so unless she was handicapped I think they wouldn't penalize her.
The second thing is, in battle you have to keep your guard up.  Big guy could try something cheap at the last second, either to hurt her, or disqualify her.

534

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion

« on: April 20, 2015, 11:00:52 am »

And that would be STUPID, as she's still in jail and has to work off her marks. If she revolts now, all she's going to accomplish is making things worse or getting herself killed. (The guards wouldn't have to restrain her. They could just label her a violent, and extremely dangerous threat and attack her from a distance with crossbows.)

Remember, this arena has been around a long, long time. They have measures in place to deal with riots and armed revolts. The best thing for Bern right now is to clear up her marks, get out of jail and then protest. There's no law against speech in this country.

Given what everyone just witnessed, I don't think that's happening. They may however try to sway public opinion against her, or neglect her (they don't HAVE to feed her).

That said, the public ummmm seems to be on her side. Even if they tried to call her a cheater, or act like a fake win, the audience wouldn't care.

Which brings up an interesting point. I don't know that Bern actually knows what to do with praise.

Everyone has some aspect of themselves that is dark. But for Bern, I think self-hatred is a priority over any hatred of the crowd. As far as the Healer, she was just angry. I think if called on it, she might have been unable to carry out her threat. Not sure though. I don't think I'd like to see her cruel or hateful, but I know what you mean, it's pretty stressful, and she may hurt lots of people without meaning to. Hopefully, she'll be able to live with herself when this is all over.

535

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion

« on: April 18, 2015, 05:37:20 am »

Effectively, it's a rebound effect.

There are some things a clever caster can do to make her have trouble. And in a standard swordfight, she would still need to use all of her skill. I run D&D campaigns, and you can say that ability is unbalanced, or you can find a way the characters can counter it. Obviously, head-on magic attacks, is not the way.

Stuff like tying her legs down, yeah that seemed to work.

And yea, after alot of failure, depressive scenes, and other crap, it's nice to see Bern win like this.

536

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion

« on: April 17, 2015, 05:11:55 pm »

Why is the old dude not butt naked like everyone else?
If we're doing this, we might as well go all the way and have wrinkly old man nutsack scrape all over the floor.

Thank you for that completely horrifying image. I will have nightmares forever.

Well this is silly, the swords are doing all the work for her. All she has to do is block.

I suppose you'd still say that if you were in a cage match with three trained killers. Blocking is rather tough to do when you're outnumbered. I'm an amateur blunt weapon (usually staff) user. I know a few quarterstaff moves from watching people, and some sword skills, so I can technically fight "two sworded" with bamboo. I was at a farm and we were goofing off, and I could beat most of the other people fighting with bamboo in single combat, and block effectively. However, as soon as they came at me from two sides, dividing my concentration was pretty difficult, and I routinely got clobbered. This by the way was against kids less than half my age, meaning when it was just one, I could block and counter without hurting them seriously. From two directions, I lost to kids.

There is actually way more skill involved in blocking than attacking. Most people can win at chess by being hyperaggressive, but winning a game of the same where you simply counter all advances, and then "oh, checkmate" yea that's a bit harder.

Also, I think there is a learning curve to these swords. They do in fact operate on repulsion (yay, I was right!) but initially all they did was halt the force of the attack. What she's doing now is effectively pushing the attacks back with her own strength.

In all likelihood, the limit to the swords is her limit. As in, if someone were to use a continuous energy pulse (think force lightning from Star Wars), and keep solid pressure going, Bern might have trouble pushing back the attack. No, the swords aren't absorbing the energy, they are pushing stuff back.

These swords probably couldn't smash a wall. They are a defensive not offensive sword.  The reason these swords smashed, the reason the spells reflected?

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AttackReflector

The sword smashed because its own magically enhanced force rebounded.

The spells turned back because of the same.

Because of this, her enemies rather than being "high-level" (it wouldn't make a difference) either use nonmagical tricks (the extending staff may have been just a retractable staff with a taser attached) or have real weapon skill. It's like Inuyasha's Backlash Wave, it probably has a stronger effect the more powerful magic the attack, so ironicallly "high-level" attacks are precisely what opponents will avoid using.

Also, btw, these weren't unrecognizable effects. Bolo Girl used a razor wind effect, the old guy used a flame sphere.

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Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion

« on: April 15, 2015, 06:22:57 pm »

And BOOM that's what we were waiting for.  As for Bern getting no character development, she has had tons.  She's being forced to go against her very nature as a pacifist and kill/maim to save not only herself but her friend.  She's also having to accept magic as a source of her current strength.  This is the perfect kind of development for Bern's character.

I agree for this reason and several others that have been hit upon.  I do, however, NOT think this match with the other two is  'won' already.  Brute force may not work on Bern's invincible blades.. but there are MANY ways around the 'blade'.. the other two should be interesting fights.. as they will also have to 'dig-deep' to fight in new and unorthodox ways.

Classically, the way to counter antimagic is to alter the environment around them. A direct attack can be negated, but heating up the air, or removing the land via earthquake means things get uncomfy for the person, and they might be defeated anyway from stuff just being generally unpleasant.

She just sliced chunks of flesh though.

538

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion

« on: April 14, 2015, 06:25:12 am »

Wait, isn't an I-beam this?



http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=2481

That is pretty clearly not an I-beam.

539

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion

« on: April 13, 2015, 06:19:21 am »

I also think about now (after he gets up from getting thrown across the room when she pushed forward and sliced his sword), they'll probably switch to a gang-up approach. Him trying to brawl punch her, the others lobbing various types of magic. I assume with her name being Blue Fire she has something more in her bag of tricks than just the rope stuff.

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Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion

« on: April 13, 2015, 06:08:13 am »

Linked so I don't have to go back and forth.

http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=2515

Why is the sword splitting like it's made of stone? It sorta reminds me of working backstage in theatre where something is painted to look like wood but is actually foam. (Hint: stone smashes into blocks when cut by something sharp, metal and glass tend to form jagged edges)

He's A rank because he doesn't have enough control or finesse. He has enough strength and brute force for S-rank, but if he actually wields it, he would kill his opponent.... except now that Bern has the swords of Split Rose.

I suspect he's also A/S rank because he's a brute without a weapon. In all likelihood, holding back means he normally fights sans I-beam. He can probably do the same thing with his bare fists to lesser extent, make a heavy/light punch.  That said, he'd probably have a better chance trying to punch her as himself instead of relying on magic to boost him. But he strikes me as an idiot so I suspect this won't dawn on him.

I suspect at least a panel next comic of complete and utter shock.