Messages

451

Flipside Discussion / Re: Mistake Thread

« on: September 30, 2015, 12:22:02 pm »

Nah, just mentioning it to anyone.

Indomitable Blades I, there's a numbering glitch. 47 is skipped.

452

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 44: Discussion

« on: September 28, 2015, 06:07:26 pm »

I think I understand why she says that it's impossible.

The Fear phase is just an illusion, the actual problem is fatigue.

The Pain phase causes actual pain, but the fact is that pain is not actually the same as injury.

The Despair phase is about despair. What does that entail?


The point of despair is that it seems to have no end. That things don't appear to get better no matter how hard you try, or how long you live. Other people may see progress, but you see no change. This is what Maytag means by it being impossible, that there is no hope or way out, by definition.

I think I have the answer to that however. These emotions are not truth.

http://www.peaceandhealing.com/psychology/despair/

This was a good article.

Hmmmm... Replaces your history with one of despair. So it's not really a memory removal (i.e. you can learn from it) so much as a past replacement. I remember a point in my life where it simply went nowhere. I was able to fish myself out with the help of a dear friend. But until that happened, career, happiness, and life was kinda in a dead-end for almost 7 years. It was a mess. Even if your life was only boring, not unhappy, this would be pretty hard.

I think May either needs a completely ripple-proof memory or to be able to not give a damn whether the thing shows her depressing memories, and just keep walking on.

I just had a ton of dreams where I suddenly remembered I had super powers. It's sorta like waking up, and realizing humans can't do such things.

453

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 44: Discussion

« on: September 25, 2015, 04:08:08 am »

Now, the popular sequel to the online game DepressionQuest you've been waiting for! Check out PsychosisQuest. Muddle through your insanity or let it eat you alive. Your choice! Only $10.99.

Pffft. Depression Quest is a real game. The other is not, but I thought I'd make a faux ad.

Something tells me she's an experiment. Either in producing insanity or suppressing it. Possibly to understand the phase 1 they got someone who can adjust their emotions.

454

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 44: Discussion

« on: September 23, 2015, 08:15:06 am »

Possible, but unlikely. I think these tests are mainly to figure out exactly what these qualia are doing. That said, it does appear to be a largely mental journey.

He wanted Bloody Mary to test various biological effects, and especially to figure out how healing works.

He used Suspiria to test how the magical awakening process worked.

And now he's using Maytag to find out what exactly is behind the Dark Cell.

I'm sure there were previous experiments too.

455

Flipside Discussion / Re: Mistake Thread

« on: September 20, 2015, 10:14:24 pm »

Oh I definitely wasn't telling you to change it to that. I was just pointing out that English is a strange and complicated language (using example sentences to illustrate this), complicated even further by stuff like newspaper jargon, which routinely uses commas as sort of "mini-ands".

I also thought the semicolon was awkward. I'll let you figure out what (if anything) to do with it, it's just that this wasn't an absolute grammatical rule.

An actual thing to edit is also on this page, though.

"Excruciating" not "excrutiating".

456

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 44: Discussion

« on: September 18, 2015, 03:23:18 pm »

Now that we know (somewhat) the pattern of these phases, I can extrapolate to some degree.

These are based on human sensation, as in fear/pain/pleasure, etc. While there a ton of emotions, there are only a few sensations. I'm crossing the ones that have been done.

• Fatigue
• Pain
• Confusion
• Fear/Stress
• Pleasure (Usually would have to be coupled with a sort of "tide" or the person is stuck there)
• Numb
• Death

It's like they say in business, you can work hard, or you can work smart. Corona is a hard worker, and just goes at something with a plow-through mentality. Maytag understands phase 2 rather than simply overcoming pain. Which leads me to think that phase 3 is something that you can't get through just by moving forward. Something where you have to stop and think about it first. ...Possibly confusion. "Four" is "death" in Asian cultures so I can imagine that one having progressive numbness until you effectively feel dead (if you accept this one, you probably die, but there's probably a way to bypass this).

457

Flipside Discussion / Re: Mistake Thread

« on: September 17, 2015, 08:22:05 am »

In the English language, that's perfectly legitimate.

Phrase group (Subject verb object etc but not quite a sentence), conjunction (and/or/but usually) new phrase group.

Sentence; conjunction (however/nevertheless/regardless), new sentence.

Sentence; new sentence (sometimes, it has to be a distinct sentence but also has to be part of the new one).

Phrase group, pseudo-conjuction (that is, a word that functions as a conjunction) new phrase group.

Sentence; pseudo-conjunction, new sentence.


The cold ice blanketed the frozen tundra, as if to say that nothing in life would ever be warm again.

 "As if to say" is a pseudo-conjunction.  "The next moment" is also one. It may work better like this, though. "One moment you feel like you're in an oven; the next moment, you feel like you're in a blizzard." (Going from "you feel like", to "you're" is poor sentence agreement)

458

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 44: Discussion

« on: September 14, 2015, 02:21:19 pm »

Pffft.



I'm thinking either this, or possibly some false relax deal, where suddenly the pressure is off, and the temptation is to rest, but instead she has to break into a dead run, and figure this fact out quick, or get flushed out. 

At this point, it's tricky to extrapolate a pattern, since we've only seen one.

You were spot-on about May. And yup most likely the third phase is pain, however i wonder if it's gonna be just the sensation of pain, and not actual harm. I'm also wondering how May is able to come back after advancing past first and second phase.. I get that the lady is taking her out, but would the person inside be able to communicate somehow that they're ok?

I think the challenges are as real (or fake) as the person entering makes them. As in, feeling the fear makes it drain you, believing in the phase 2 illusion makes that affect you, and phase 3 can cause actual damage (possibly reversible) if you take it too seriously.

459

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 44: Discussion

« on: September 10, 2015, 06:01:14 pm »

I'm not sure they are all deceptions. I mean, probably they are. But I think the bigger part of these is that they are barriers to progress.

What other barriers are there besides fear?

Well, pain. Pain can pretty much keep people from advancing. I'm thinking the third is pain, based on the title picture.

Apathy. That's what I'm thinking. While the fear one had a sort of pressure to go with it, this barrier would be sort of the exact opposite of this. It is so mellow that it lulls the person into staying there and not moving ahead.  If someone numbs themselves to the pressure of the first, the temptation is to rest there for awhile.

Past the third, what do you think? Theories?

460

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 44: Discussion

« on: September 09, 2015, 12:37:51 pm »

Sorta like a car that you're afraid to drive because it shakes and drags, but after you get past the actual fear, you see that the car just shakes because the wheels need work or something.

It's kinda just sort of a gravity issue. Force pushing either down  or towards the person, so they can't seem to get past. They think it's just fear, but actually it's more to do with pressure. Maytag is able to shrug it off because she normally doesn't feel fear, and noticed the pressure. From the storyline of the other girl, and how May did the second one on the first try, it seems like the 2nd zone is cake.

461

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 44: Discussion

« on: September 07, 2015, 05:39:32 pm »

Schizoid.

The section about "the purpose of a mask is that it can be thrown away" makes it super-clear.

Autism and schizoid have similar inability to relate to others. I should know, I was once (mis)diagnosed as autistic.

Autism, even high functioning autism, is marked by a lack of social skill. It is also marked by a number of social oddities that May simply does not have. May is actually very socially smooth. Her problem is that she doesn't seem to care on the surface about people, and while she's social, has an issue with close relationships (almost like she pulls away if stuff gets too personal). SHe also lacks many of the obsessive compulsive "nonfunctional routines" that autism manifests.

Schizoid often uses "masks" and "walls" as metaphors for the condition. Think about it, the only time she really gets off sexually is wearing her headgear. 



Short form: schizoids make very good poker players (constant poker face). Autistics make very bad ones (bad at reading body language).

Of course, There Are No Shrinks in Flipside universe, so she's unlikely to be diagnosed as such. Also, keep in mind, this is a spectrum. She may be in-between somewhere. But she's more deadpan and aloof than eccentric.

I was wondering about the body type too. I have no clue what this is about. Looks like we'll get an explanation soon.

...Ohhhh, wait. I know what they mean about body type (I think). There was some ski-jumping manga I was reading (Nononono) where is was talking about how many women had a disadvantage ski-jumping because men can use their weight and body muscle to shrug off some of the force during a heavy wind. I think in addition to intense fear, it has a tendency to exert some sort of wind pressure type deal on the person passing, so it's difficult to "break through." 

462

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 44: Discussion

« on: September 05, 2015, 11:39:06 am »

From what I understand, it is some sort of metaphor for a sort of struggle going on within the mind.

463

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 44: Discussion

« on: September 02, 2015, 05:03:28 am »

Oh?

http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=2183

She looks perfectly calm, relaxed even, here. And yet she's petrified with fear.

By scared I mean... well you know when you were a kid and you ran to mom? Or were all clingy? I suspect before Maytag even developed her memories, her mom (and dad?) basically made her feel guilty for needing others. Sort of "go away, my daughter wouldn't behave in such a manner." Probably other stuff too, like impulse control, crying, or tantrums. So she formed a mask, even from herself, which basically blocked out all emotion. By analysis, you can kinda see that her mask is built around avoiding fear, need, intimacy, and emotion. Logically, this means there is a natural store of all such things.

But it's probably stuck at that childhood level, because while she's built her persona outward, the actual personality hasn't developed much.

http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=2609

So back to the opening picture. It's not an evil grin. It's a smirk. She's getting a natural rush from feeling pain. Normally, she does this acceptance trick, and has layers and layers of emotional walls. But we are assuming the walls are down here, and she legitimately has some masochistic tendencies.

Pfffft, this is a nice way of setting this up. Rather than the chore of wading through ten comics before she gets through, she just outright finishes, and the next comic will be like "prove it." Kinda explains the whole relaxed legs crossed deal too.

464

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 44: Discussion

« on: September 01, 2015, 09:30:27 pm »

You can argue that while this is a mask, this doesn't mean that it's "fake" Maytag. Think about it this way. Suppose you like to read at home. You also like to go out with your friends and do stuff. We could say that one of these is a fake you. Or we can simply decide that these are different sides of you. Since most people don't show everything about themselves, even to close friends.

In May's case, this is a little different. She has a layered personality. Rather than different sides of her, it's more like a series of concentric circles.

(1) May's true self, something that none of us have likely seen (which would probably turn out to be a scared and/or emotional mess)
(2) May's deadpan self
(3) May's dual persona

While you could say #3 is a false personality, this doesn't add up. She had to build this personality from somewhere. If her true self were also deadpan, there would be no reason for #2 (it would be redundant). This means that #1 has emotions, but possibly needs the mask as a defense mechanism for dealing with pain, or because her real self was suppressed early on because it was odd/unruly/damaged/etc. Since neither #3 (not in character with either Jester personality, or the shy Maytag) nor #2 (not deadpan enough) would have said that loud "SHUT UP!" to the creepy maid girl, I think we got a peek at the Maytag behind the masks.

465

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 44: Discussion

« on: August 26, 2015, 08:46:06 pm »

I think I once tried to memorize that passage (I was a weird kid too). Hmmmm...

I must not  fear
Fear is the mindkiller
Fear is the little (forgot this part)
I will face my fear
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
When fear is gone there is nothing
Only I will remain.

There's like a Tibetan parable about this guy getting locked in a dark room after you die. You get exposed to monsters in this room, which you can face or flee, up to the number of days in the month you died. They get progressively weaker as each one is faced. If you run away from all of them, you'll reincarnate badly. If you face the first one, you ascend to the next level of consciousness and won't need to reincarnate any more (it was in a psych book under exposure theory).

I wonder if May is actually ready. She did some soul-searching, but was it enough?

466

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 44: Discussion

« on: August 22, 2015, 08:41:12 pm »

Yeah, that's what sucks about all of this. Hopefully Polly and her can figure something else out.

In other news, I recognize those steps. Maytag is at the stairs near the Dark Cell. Which means things may get interesting soon. Assuming she can figure out what to do about her fear.

467

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 44: Discussion

« on: August 20, 2015, 04:47:29 am »

Masochism is about the opposite of psychopathy. The whole dangerous thing was just a pose.

In reality, psycho types tend to be sadists not masochists. The people who mutilate their own bodies? Suicidals, borderlines, autists, and schizophrenic. The first two due to emotional depression, and the last two because they are out of touch. A psycho only hurts themselves if they can frame other peoole (I think there was a movie called Fear where this guy beat himself up to make it look like the other guy did it).

468

Flipside Discussion / Re: Maytag's (Completely Inconsistant) Personality

« on: August 20, 2015, 04:11:50 am »

All of us have control of our emotions. We have the ability to, when someone tries to make us angry (say a troll trying to push us into being banned), instead decide "nope! I'm gonna grin and bear it". What you are seeing from May isn't control over emotions though, so much as a collection of personas, and fine control over pain (that technique). May very much can't get manipulated by anyone but the best, not because she hasn't emotions or controls them, but because she doesn't let them control her.  If she sees someone using the carrot and stick approach she can just calmly walk away if she decides what she wants isn't really what she wants.

That said, people need people, and May is willing to do crazy things for Bern. Maybe not you but alot of people misread this as psycho behavior because it just seemed so out there.

Have I mentioned how I like Crest the least of the main characters? He was cool mainly when he punched out that old guy. Then he does about as bad to May when she opens up on stage. That's exactly the reason crest is wrong about the two. They'll have troubles, yes, but at the core, May opened up completely to Bern and she didn't reject her. That's the basis of their relationship. And Crest can't do that. This is why May is willing to do crazy things, because she loves Bern. Cold as she is, cutting hands up is no big deal to her, if it saves someone she cares for.

469

Flipside Discussion / Re: Maytag's (Completely Inconsistant) Personality

« on: August 19, 2015, 03:00:14 pm »

I actually drew an interesting parallel on the discussion of how "magic does not exist" and how our own society put such strong faith in the scientific world.

As in, we are basically minds and energy, since energy is matter (squared at the speed of light, according to Einstein) this means that while we think stuff like cell phones are real, the technology could actually be seen as just an extension of ourselves. They're only real in that the concepts come from ideas of ours. But the actual process is very similar to a magician's trick.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/federicoguerrini/2014/11/21/technology-is-just-an-engineered-illusion-digital-magician-marco-tempest-says/

470

Flipside Discussion / Re: Maytag's (Completely Inconsistant) Personality

« on: August 15, 2015, 04:46:28 pm »

I started this post last night and was going wait to fix it up a bit, but it is pretty much  is a lot of what Brion posted so I'll just post it now, even thoguh it is a bit of a mess.

I personally don't like getting into diagnosing characters so I'll just talk about what I disagree with as far as the narrative is concerned.

 Moss saw Maytag's promiscuity as a weakness at a time where he didn't have the context of it relating to Bern, so he assumed it was the promiscuity itself and not that it related to infidelity.  Also remember that at the time Maytag believed that her and Bernadette relationship was inevitably going to fail, because she was struggling with desperately wanting to stay together with Bern and also staying true to herself. I would say that at the time that probably did feel like the biggest weakness for Maytag.

We know Bernadette knows about the personality thing because of this page: http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=1459
 
It was basically the first thing May told her: http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=412

Not to mention that the way Bern describes May back then includes almost all of personality traits May is talking about currently:  http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=415

The story went over the cheating thing. The reason Bern was hurt, but not too angry over it because she accepted from the start that a relationship with May would likely include being cheated on at least for a period of time. She was able to brace herself for it to an extent and she was willing to justify it for May using ?just a phase? reasoning.

Still doesn't sound like psychopathy/sociopathy guys. What psycho sits in bed crying? What psycho worries they manipulate others, or calls themselves "selfish and cold" (there are disorders that make you come across that way besides what she thinks)? What psycho begins with pushing someone away (they usually try to attract you so they can hurt you)? And why start with first impression of morose.

In terms of effervescent and bubbly, ummm there is this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histrionic_personality_disorder
Just to name one other issue.

To say nothing of that fact that Covert Schizoid explains bother her infidelity (desire for lack of intimacy, so she self-sabotages) and her outgoing mask (a schizoid is outgoing because they like the idea of friends, but they hate intimacy, so it's a shallow extroversion). Or for that matter, Borderline Personality Disorder has rocky relationship issues (cheating, etc) and they generally are moody.

I guess, we can all decide she's a psycho, but Brion said there's another explanation, so let's wait and see what it is.

471

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 44: Discussion

« on: August 15, 2015, 04:00:10 pm »

Hmmm... interesting.

I'm actually more interested in figuring Maytag out herself... is she a 'functional' sociopath?  'Functional' meaning she is not inspired to murder people for some nebulous reason that is completely unrealatable to by sane people.

(Never seen Dexter)

She seems sweet enough... but is Maytag... like Dexter.. just Very good at fooling people into not seeing her for what she Really is?

That's scary.  People like that you have no idea what would cause them to snap...

Given my research on this subject online (yes, I actually do research the comic content, I'm a geek  ) and watching several shows and movies (Heroes, the K-Drama I Remember You, & The Girl Who Sees Smells for shows; Confessions of a Sociopathic Social Climber (comedic, but it provides insight into the mentality of a sociopath) and A Werewolf Boy (notthe main character, the guy "paying their rent") and especially The Lovely Bones), I have discovered that there is a difference between an emotionally cold person (which May is), and a sociopath.

There are at least three states that have emotional disconnect that have nothing to do with sociopathy:

• Trauma
• Schizoid personality "disorder"
• Schizophrenia (which has nothing to do with the one above, schizoid is the inability to feel strong emotions, this is hallucinations and delusions. They have in common the detachment, so similar name)
• Depression

http://albertellis.org/personality-disorders/

Narcissism, schizoid, and ASPD (psychopath) all have lack of empathy as a symptom, but they are wildly different disorders. Bottom line, there are alot of reasons people "snap" and there are alot of reasons people are emotionally cold. Psychopathy should never be assumed to be at the top of the list, unless you see stuff like tormenting animals.
 
A person who is a genuine sociopath has several common characteristics, aside from coldness.

• Sociopaths generally don't "snap". If you are capable of snapping, you are something else. Sociopaths grow up learning to enjoy hurting things, and generally are allowed to get away with it. It is also theorized that disciplinarian homes tend to church out this type as the parents are only interested in the letter of the law not in actual human kindness.
• Sociopaths are not overtly cold. There was one article about how everyone on the bus avoids the deadpan person. Along with the guy talking to himself. The guy talking to himself is a schizophrenic, and probably paranoid. As long as you are pleasant to him and not overly creepy, he won't hurt you. The schizoid won't hurt you probably period, except in self-defence or of loved ones (the latter he has difficulty connecting with). The one you actually should be afraid of is the charming handsome guy next to you (think, what does the deadpan guy or the crazy person want from you? Probably nothing, hence you guys are leaving each other alone. Now, what does an uncharacteristically charming person want from you? Well, anything. The might want you to inflate their ego if you're attractive. They might want to abuse you once you are used to them. Or they might want to kill you. Regardless, they are trying to talk you into letting them into your life. Say "not interested" or try to quietly leave without getting killed)
• There is no such thing as a high-functioning sociopath. There are, sure, sociopaths that are skillful at blending in modern society. But re-read what I just said. They are "skillful at blending in modern society". Think about the policemen that pulled you over just to give you a ticket, manhandles you with brutality, and so on. Think about the CEO that runs thousands of employees, and treats them like slaves (I'm looking at you, Jeff Bezos). A sociopath naturally competes with others at all costs, and is as ruthless in the office setting as they are in a direct confrontation. They either kill overtly, or kill by driving other people into poverty and despair. And they are sadists. Maytag only considers sadism as a sexual kink, and not seriously
• Sociopaths fancy themselves as clever. But some of their assumptions about other people are overly simplistic or outright childish.
• Sociopathy tends to go hand in hand with narcissism. Believing you have the right to do anything to another person, is just short of doing it, and many narcissists are indeed killers.
• A study on sociopaths showed that punishment has virtually no impact on them. Rewards, however, well this is pretty much why they live is to get perks. They had sociopaths studied who usually after release who get jailed again for murder. So they tried an experiment where they gave people stuff for controlling the urge to manipulate others. It worked. They were only 60% likely to kill people rather than pretty much 99% of the sociopaths elsewhere.

 

That said, Maytag has some definite crazy. But it's good crazy. She definitely has the ability to feel remorse, and seems at least annoyed when things go her way. Being scary doesn't mean you necessarily can't be a hero.

Key point. She worries that she is that type of person. Using simple logic, a person who worries about something like that, usually isn't. Because such a person by their nature doesn't care if they hurt others. If she was trying to convince others, I'd say so. But this is her own internal reasoning. She is afraid what is behind the mask. This implies that it is something different from what she thinks it is.

I am not a therapist, btw. I have researched this because I have had emotional coldness when I thought I should feel something, and was worried. So I looked it up.

Or to put it more briefly... Ummm, guys look Word of God.

As for Maytag being a psychopath, she is not.  She has real feelings for other people, and always has.  She is just very different from other people.

472

Flipside Discussion / Re: Maytag's (Completely Inconsistant) Personality

« on: August 15, 2015, 04:00:23 am »

Something occurred to me.

Well two things. What's really behind the mask, I think I know what it is (but I won't spoil, i'll ask Brion by PM).

But also, before Lehm wipes her memory, and sends her on her way.  There's a reason started with six steps and now can't even  make any progress. She thinks keeping up her mask will protect her, and from alot of interpersonal stuff it will, along with her Acceptance Technique. However, this is something wild and primal, leading to my second thought.

Maytag should ask Why is Maytag a Candidate for the Dark Cell?

And I think the picture it will show will be her leaving her masks on the ground to enter the cell. Her biggest fear is actually showing what is behind the mask. That's exactly what she needs to face to move into the cell.

473

Flipside Discussion / Re: Maytag's (Completely Inconsistant) Personality

« on: August 14, 2015, 05:33:32 am »

There are a ton of disorders that are characterized by emotional detachment.

Here's another.

She doesn't go around killing people, which is a good sign. She also shows remorse (schizoids, unlike sociopaths can have real feelings, they just don't know how to show them). She isn't shy, but does tend to be fine by herself. There is also a type of schizoid that makes a social mask (like her) to deal with other people, they're called a covert schizoid. Crazy scary maid lady is a sociopath, May is definitely different.

However, keep in mind that this is a world where there are no psychologists. May has had to manipulate others to survive (the difference is that a sociopath enjoys this), so she thinks she is every bit a monster as the typical violent psycho. Truth is, but for this violent world, she wouldn't hurt a fly, as she wouldn't have to. But it's not about how she actually is, it's about the fear that she might be dangerous. That's Crest's worry too. But that's the point. A true psycho doesn't get worried about that.

I saw a Korean drama last night. I Remember You. It flash-backed to this guy's father working with psychos all day, and seeing that birds and other animals were killed, and seeing the older brother's cold manner, thought that the kid was a psycho in training and tried to spend time with him to prevent this (very misguided). Older brother was actually fine, he just couldn't show emotion. He cared about people, swept the floor for his dad, and did chores, he was just odd. Younger brother pretended to be sweet and innocent, was actually the one killing animals, was the one making disturbing drawings, and the older brother didn't rat him out (a mix of not caring much, and being an older brother). So we flash forward, and someone is committing murders, but you realize by about episode three that the one signing the artwork (with this weird symbol) is the younger brother, the older brother just thinks he's a monster.

http://mentalhealthdaily.com/2014/03/21/covert-schizoid-sexuality-behavioral-patterns/

Notice May's promiscuity? She messed with Bern mainly because they knew each other, and it was a very private thing (until Crest discovered). But she has had a ton of sexual affairs that had no intimacy. Really, Bern is an exception to the normal pattern, but I think this is because she feels she can trust her.

There are some nonviolent sociopaths (the word is sociopath, as in someone "suffering" with Antisocial Personality Disorder; you'll notice I changed it from psychopath, because there is some mix-up between psychotic and psychopathic), but there is a difference between them and May. May has clear things she wouldn't do (she's not a prostitute or murderer), but the defining trait of an antisocial personality is that they do anything to get what they want (watch Confessions of Sociopathic Social Climber, for a good insight on that, she literally does anything to get into a rave, and no conscience ever actually strikes, she just decides she wants a certain guy more). In the nonviolent sphere, think ruthless businessman (who has no qualms about cheating or bribing to get to their career), and there are an awful lot of people in positions of power, especially those with potential for sadism. Usually cops, although this has a comedic spin on that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjPjkj_wv9s

May doesn't really seem the type, does she?

474

Flipside Discussion / Re: Maytag's (Completely Inconsistant) Personality

« on: August 13, 2015, 05:09:45 am »

I actually get that reaction with Crest more. He's shy kid, yet suddenly getting fighting skills he also knows how to talk to girls. He seemed cool when he punched the old man out, yet he's also pretty much the only one that isn't okay with how May is. Crest actually annoys me, because he seems consistent and yet most of what he is rings hypocritical. I'm happiest when he is simply in love with Suspiria as he just goes mushy and the glaring flaws in his personality don't pop out as much.

Actually, that's pretty much the consistent part of her. In fiction, I usually write characters like her (I'm a hobby rpgmaker game director) because I hate the silent hero, but I want a character who can respond to anything however she wants.  I mean, not the whole split personality but the sort of flexible type that is really not defined. Bern is another good choice, since we have the flawed person who does her best to live according to a code of conduct.

When I was growing up, I had alot of her. The deadpan part. We moved several times, my grandma died, and as a result I lost alot of friends in the first few years. I was shy, almost clingy, and then somewhere along the way my emotions just progressively got more detached. I do alot of sort of calm observation, and notice alot of strange things (that I don't comment on, since nobody seems to notice). At my core, well I'm not really sure, but it seems like everyone else seems to have mastered the art of acting normal. I noticed in college, everyone was getting into special courses and seemed to automatically know what to do. I didn't know until near the end of the last year that the teacher they gave us as an advisor (which btw, I swapped for someone I liked simply by going to him instead) was supposed to help us with jobs after college. I had no normal mode, I couldn't act like I fit in. I was a very walled person. My parents didn't want me to be lonely so I was encouraged (pushed, really) to socialize. These separate parts seem like inconsistencies, but from my experience they were facets that developed through socialization. I started out kinda blank, and originally just sat watching stuff while life kinda passed me by. Then I developed a sort of shyness when life got personal, and later learned to act social because "nobody would like the boring deadpan me" is I'm sure what Maytag is thinking.

I'm not sure if Bern even knows about that. Maytag has been intimate, but that's harder to define. Now, as was covered in the Dark Cell, even the deadpan thing is probably a mask. What's behind it? I think I know.

I was working a job at Amazon, which seemed designed to push us to an emotional limit. The first job, picking, was easy. Find boxes of stuff from the shelf, put them on a conveyor, etc. Then after Christmas, they gave me stowing, which I really could not deal with. The shelves were progressively more full because there weren't any pickers to take them, but we somehow had to make space on shelves. And because we kinda had to choose where to put stuff, it kind of touched me on a personal level. I had been looking at this as a huge metaphor for my life, I didn't know how to choose what I wanted, and crap from life just built around me and instead of coping with it normally, I built walls. Pretty much my stowing style, and it wasn't helping that closer examination of the rules they'd given us as stowers basically gave us no options (you can stow a ton into larger places, but the only "right place" is smaller slots, and then they want you to have "bin etiquette" for other people, nevermind that they don't leave any for you), was making it so that I was progressively getting more and more trapped feeling. One day, after suffering through really slow stowing (this was before I was final warned, and just decided to quit), I was asked by our machine's message system to come talk to the local supervisor if I had any "barriers" to my work progress. Pretty much all I had. I talked to the lady told her calmly that I was just having trouble "stowing the big stuff" walked away, and proceeded to burst into tears. Like literally, raw emotion, that I didn't know how to deal with. It struck me that this deadpan "wall" coping mechanism started as a child when I had trouble talking because I'd get emotional and cry and I was told culturally that it's not okay for guys to cry. This day, I was crying not because the job was tough (well, it was, because the shelves were filled to the point of being unworkable), but closer to tears of joy, since this seemed to be a very cold work environment (our work orders were done by computer, there was no personal supervision) and yet through constant supervision by hidden camera, fake workers, etc someone had gotten to know the real me. At least, I think this is why I was crying.

Anyway, to summarize, the mask May has been wearing since birth, she isn't sure what's under it. She fears she is a horrible person. She might be an extremely raw, emotional person without much personality. Or the girl might be wrong, and there might indeed be nothing there beyond the mask. So, basically, not sure if she likes herself (see the bridge scene, where she tells Bern she's manipulated everyone, and that Bern should stay away), she creates alter-egos to hide what she thinks is her true self. That doesn't mean that is her true self, only what Bern can see. And what she can see is what she's needed to do to try to get people to like her.

http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=2251

I think this is closer to the real May, but it'll take her awhile to realize this, based on how she currently considers herself.

475

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 44: Discussion

« on: August 10, 2015, 04:44:48 am »

Is it weird that nobody is posting? Sure, I said enough for everyone, but still.

476

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion

« on: July 30, 2015, 01:38:30 pm »

Brion usually ends chapters to line up vertically, usually in multiples of 15. Her agreeing to do the job was the end of the fighting arc, and the beginning of Maytag. There's a sort of smooth break between the two where the stories haven't to do with the other.

477

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion

« on: July 28, 2015, 07:40:37 pm »

This is pretty much the defining reason why Maytag loves Bern.

http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=409

A lonely girl who everyone rejected because she was emotionless and weird was completely accepted by someone who knows what it's like to be alone.

http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=415

And this is why Bern loves Maytag. She values her honesty.

So, most of all, Bern owes it to May to tell her about the thing with Polly. The worry is that she won't accept her, but I'd hope she would.

478

Flipside Discussion / Chapter 44: Discussion

« on: July 28, 2015, 07:27:15 pm »

First post!  I'm not sure if Brion always starts these threads, in which case, sorry.

Well, two comics now, so may as well get started. When last we saw May she'd pretty much given up on the Dark Cell. It's not clear whether time has passed or whether we're rewinding to that point (the problem of split perspective).

So yea, she doesn't seem to have much motivation. Probably because she wants to go back and perform at something she's good at versus "oh hey why not  walk through this impossible dark chamber while you're preoccupied with your own stuff." Seriously, they have horrible timing, given that she was in the middle of performance.

I have a beef with them wiping her memories. First off, who does that? That's straight out of MIB spooks stuff. Second, he's all like "I don't like forcing anyone to do anything" as he said in an earlier chapter, ummm the thing is, other people's memories aren't yours to take! That's precisely the definition of a manipulator, they either view people  as useful to them or get rid of them. People have inherent worth, whether or not they do anything dramatic with their life.

Third, and this is important, it's her memory so it's not a given that she'd be happier without these memories, even if he managed to deliver her back in time for the performance (which btw if you've made her miss, she'd have happy memories of the event then be broke and without options, which is kinda... cruel I guess), there is a difference between knowing the truth and doing the mundane and not knowing anything and the same. It's like Jupiter Ascending, after the adventure she had a brush with greatness, and so rather than her crappy janitor job being a personal hell where "I hate my life" it was just part of things and she could do it with enthusiasm. Or to put it traditionally, there's a story about a monk who before enlightenment chopped wood and carried water. What did he do after? He chopped wood and carried water. The difference however was him, and how he viewed life. Erasing her memories is taking that away from her.

That's my thoughts. Other observations?

479

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion

« on: July 26, 2015, 09:51:43 am »

I read it, but got Polly mixed up with the other girl. It was kinda a complicated story.

I also read May's origin story (2nd, not the one that got spoiled out, but the meeting Bern on the bridge) so that's my response to people who say that the whole Bern/May thing they never got. May was a "shy" (emotionless from 1st) girl who was rejected by most people who met her, and Bern loved her still.

Bad Apple, I think it was. Nah, that's not it. Dunno where that scene is.

Urgh... anyone know? Doesn't seem to be in Book 0 either.

480

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion

« on: July 25, 2015, 10:37:42 am »

Bern was always into such things. With May, and it's heavily implied that Polly and her were an item at one time.

The jealousy thing may be an issue, but it might make Bern change her mind about the open relationship, and allow other people in. Remember, May originally wanted that, but decided that if Bern wasn't doing anything, the infidelity was an issue. Bern might just say now "whatever, we've both been unfaithful, I forgive what you've done if you'd forgive this time."

Also, why do I feel like Bern is using "the right thing to do" as an excuse for some good sex with a friend? Pervy Bern...