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Messages - bulmabriefs144

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Flipside Discussion / Re: Maytag's (Completely Inconsistant) Personality
« on: August 14, 2015, 05:33:32 am »
There are a ton of disorders that are characterized by emotional detachment.

Here's another.

She doesn't go around killing people, which is a good sign. She also shows remorse (schizoids, unlike sociopaths can have real feelings, they just don't know how to show them). She isn't shy, but does tend to be fine by herself. There is also a type of schizoid that makes a social mask (like her) to deal with other people, they're called a covert schizoid. Crazy scary maid lady is a sociopath, May is definitely different.

However, keep in mind that this is a world where there are no psychologists. May has had to manipulate others to survive (the difference is that a sociopath enjoys this), so she thinks she is every bit a monster as the typical violent psycho. Truth is, but for this violent world, she wouldn't hurt a fly, as she wouldn't have to. But it's not about how she actually is, it's about the fear that she might be dangerous. That's Crest's worry too. But that's the point. A true psycho doesn't get worried about that.

I saw a Korean drama last night. I Remember You. It flash-backed to this guy's father working with psychos all day, and seeing that birds and other animals were killed, and seeing the older brother's cold manner, thought that the kid was a psycho in training and tried to spend time with him to prevent this (very misguided). Older brother was actually fine, he just couldn't show emotion. He cared about people, swept the floor for his dad, and did chores, he was just odd. Younger brother pretended to be sweet and innocent, was actually the one killing animals, was the one making disturbing drawings, and the older brother didn't rat him out (a mix of not caring much, and being an older brother). So we flash forward, and someone is committing murders, but you realize by about episode three that the one signing the artwork (with this weird symbol) is the younger brother, the older brother just thinks he's a monster.

Notice May's promiscuity? She messed with Bern mainly because they knew each other, and it was a very private thing (until Crest discovered). But she has had a ton of sexual affairs that had no intimacy. Really, Bern is an exception to the normal pattern, but I think this is because she feels she can trust her.

There are some nonviolent sociopaths (the word is sociopath, as in someone "suffering" with Antisocial Personality Disorder; you'll notice I changed it from psychopath, because there is some mix-up between psychotic and psychopathic), but there is a difference between them and May. May has clear things she wouldn't do (she's not a prostitute or murderer), but the defining trait of an antisocial personality is that they do anything to get what they want (watch Confessions of Sociopathic Social Climber, for a good insight on that, she literally does anything to get into a rave, and no conscience ever actually strikes, she just decides she wants a certain guy more). In the nonviolent sphere, think ruthless businessman (who has no qualms about cheating or bribing to get to their career), and there are an awful lot of people in positions of power, especially those with potential for sadism. Usually cops, although this has a comedic spin on that.

May doesn't really seem the type, does she?

Flipside Discussion / Re: Maytag's (Completely Inconsistant) Personality
« on: August 13, 2015, 05:09:45 am »
I actually get that reaction with Crest more. He's shy kid, yet suddenly getting fighting skills he also knows how to talk to girls. He seemed cool when he punched the old man out, yet he's also pretty much the only one that isn't okay with how May is. Crest actually annoys me, because he seems consistent and yet most of what he is rings hypocritical. I'm happiest when he is simply in love with Suspiria as he just goes mushy and the glaring flaws in his personality don't pop out as much.

Actually, that's pretty much the consistent part of her. In fiction, I usually write characters like her (I'm a hobby rpgmaker game director) because I hate the silent hero, but I want a character who can respond to anything however she wants.  I mean, not the whole split personality but the sort of flexible type that is really not defined. Bern is another good choice, since we have the flawed person who does her best to live according to a code of conduct.

When I was growing up, I had alot of her. The deadpan part. We moved several times, my grandma died, and as a result I lost alot of friends in the first few years. I was shy, almost clingy, and then somewhere along the way my emotions just progressively got more detached. I do alot of sort of calm observation, and notice alot of strange things (that I don't comment on, since nobody seems to notice). At my core, well I'm not really sure, but it seems like everyone else seems to have mastered the art of acting normal. I noticed in college, everyone was getting into special courses and seemed to automatically know what to do. I didn't know until near the end of the last year that the teacher they gave us as an advisor (which btw, I swapped for someone I liked simply by going to him instead) was supposed to help us with jobs after college. I had no normal mode, I couldn't act like I fit in. I was a very walled person. My parents didn't want me to be lonely so I was encouraged (pushed, really) to socialize. These separate parts seem like inconsistencies, but from my experience they were facets that developed through socialization. I started out kinda blank, and originally just sat watching stuff while life kinda passed me by. Then I developed a sort of shyness when life got personal, and later learned to act social because "nobody would like the boring deadpan me" is I'm sure what Maytag is thinking.

I'm not sure if Bern even knows about that. Maytag has been intimate, but that's harder to define. Now, as was covered in the Dark Cell, even the deadpan thing is probably a mask. What's behind it? I think I know.

I was working a job at Amazon, which seemed designed to push us to an emotional limit. The first job, picking, was easy. Find boxes of stuff from the shelf, put them on a conveyor, etc. Then after Christmas, they gave me stowing, which I really could not deal with. The shelves were progressively more full because there weren't any pickers to take them, but we somehow had to make space on shelves. And because we kinda had to choose where to put stuff, it kind of touched me on a personal level. I had been looking at this as a huge metaphor for my life, I didn't know how to choose what I wanted, and crap from life just built around me and instead of coping with it normally, I built walls. Pretty much my stowing style, and it wasn't helping that closer examination of the rules they'd given us as stowers basically gave us no options (you can stow a ton into larger places, but the only "right place" is smaller slots, and then they want you to have "bin etiquette" for other people, nevermind that they don't leave any for you), was making it so that I was progressively getting more and more trapped feeling. One day, after suffering through really slow stowing (this was before I was final warned, and just decided to quit), I was asked by our machine's message system to come talk to the local supervisor if I had any "barriers" to my work progress. Pretty much all I had. I talked to the lady told her calmly that I was just having trouble "stowing the big stuff" walked away, and proceeded to burst into tears. Like literally, raw emotion, that I didn't know how to deal with. It struck me that this deadpan "wall" coping mechanism started as a child when I had trouble talking because I'd get emotional and cry and I was told culturally that it's not okay for guys to cry. This day, I was crying not because the job was tough (well, it was, because the shelves were filled to the point of being unworkable), but closer to tears of joy, since this seemed to be a very cold work environment (our work orders were done by computer, there was no personal supervision) and yet through constant supervision by hidden camera, fake workers, etc someone had gotten to know the real me. At least, I think this is why I was crying.

Anyway, to summarize, the mask May has been wearing since birth, she isn't sure what's under it. She fears she is a horrible person. She might be an extremely raw, emotional person without much personality. Or the girl might be wrong, and there might indeed be nothing there beyond the mask. So, basically, not sure if she likes herself (see the bridge scene, where she tells Bern she's manipulated everyone, and that Bern should stay away), she creates alter-egos to hide what she thinks is her true self. That doesn't mean that is her true self, only what Bern can see. And what she can see is what she's needed to do to try to get people to like her.

I think this is closer to the real May, but it'll take her awhile to realize this, based on how she currently considers herself.

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 44: Discussion
« on: August 10, 2015, 04:44:48 am »
Is it weird that nobody is posting? Sure, I said enough for everyone, but still.

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« on: July 30, 2015, 01:38:30 pm »
Brion usually ends chapters to line up vertically, usually in multiples of 15. Her agreeing to do the job was the end of the fighting arc, and the beginning of Maytag. There's a sort of smooth break between the two where the stories haven't to do with the other.

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« on: July 28, 2015, 07:40:37 pm »
This is pretty much the defining reason why Maytag loves Bern.

A lonely girl who everyone rejected because she was emotionless and weird was completely accepted by someone who knows what it's like to be alone.

And this is why Bern loves Maytag. She values her honesty.

So, most of all, Bern owes it to May to tell her about the thing with Polly. The worry is that she won't accept her, but I'd hope she would.

Flipside Discussion / Chapter 44: Discussion
« on: July 28, 2015, 07:27:15 pm »
First post!  ;D I'm not sure if Brion always starts these threads, in which case, sorry.

Well, two comics now, so may as well get started. When last we saw May she'd pretty much given up on the Dark Cell. It's not clear whether time has passed or whether we're rewinding to that point (the problem of split perspective).

So yea, she doesn't seem to have much motivation. Probably because she wants to go back and perform at something she's good at versus "oh hey why not  walk through this impossible dark chamber while you're preoccupied with your own stuff." Seriously, they have horrible timing, given that she was in the middle of performance.

I have a beef with them wiping her memories. First off, who does that? That's straight out of MIB spooks stuff. Second, he's all like "I don't like forcing anyone to do anything" as he said in an earlier chapter, ummm the thing is, other people's memories aren't yours to take! That's precisely the definition of a manipulator, they either view people  as useful to them or get rid of them. People have inherent worth, whether or not they do anything dramatic with their life.

Third, and this is important, it's her memory so it's not a given that she'd be happier without these memories, even if he managed to deliver her back in time for the performance (which btw if you've made her miss, she'd have happy memories of the event then be broke and without options, which is kinda... cruel I guess), there is a difference between knowing the truth and doing the mundane and not knowing anything and the same. It's like Jupiter Ascending, after the adventure she had a brush with greatness, and so rather than her crappy janitor job being a personal hell where "I hate my life" it was just part of things and she could do it with enthusiasm. Or to put it traditionally, there's a story about a monk who before enlightenment chopped wood and carried water. What did he do after? He chopped wood and carried water. The difference however was him, and how he viewed life. Erasing her memories is taking that away from her.

That's my thoughts. Other observations?

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« on: July 26, 2015, 09:51:43 am »
I read it, but got Polly mixed up with the other girl. It was kinda a complicated story.

I also read May's origin story (2nd, not the one that got spoiled out, but the meeting Bern on the bridge) so that's my response to people who say that the whole Bern/May thing they never got. May was a "shy" (emotionless from 1st) girl who was rejected by most people who met her, and Bern loved her still.

Bad Apple, I think it was. Nah, that's not it. Dunno where that scene is.

Urgh... anyone know? Doesn't seem to be in Book 0 either.

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« on: July 25, 2015, 10:37:42 am »
Bern was always into such things. With May, and it's heavily implied that Polly and her were an item at one time.

The jealousy thing may be an issue, but it might make Bern change her mind about the open relationship, and allow other people in. Remember, May originally wanted that, but decided that if Bern wasn't doing anything, the infidelity was an issue. Bern might just say now "whatever, we've both been unfaithful, I forgive what you've done if you'd forgive this time."

Also, why do I feel like Bern is using "the right thing to do" as an excuse for some good sex with a friend? Pervy Bern...  ;D

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« on: July 22, 2015, 08:27:03 pm »
These vindictive cruel bastards want HER badly!  It so perverse how wicked-hearted miscreants want to corrupt  innocent and kind-hearted people.  Guess it just makes them feel more justified with their evil ways.

Again I don't think this is about solely the fans or the money.. these Sick SICK Bastards want to make Bern compromise her ethics... just to make a point that everyone is a corruptable as them! 

I mean come'on.. you think that Bern and Polly's conversations in their 'gilded cell' are not being monitored? Seriously?!?  These people ARE plain EVIL... and they take perverse pleasure in spreading the evil of their own avarice. Yes, the Arena coordinators will make a profit at this cause of one jaded fan's fantasy fulfilled, the fact that this DIRECTLY goes against Bern's professed monogamous fidelity... is NOT just a coincidence!  They REALLY want to erode her noble and honorable heart!

You cannot be corrupted unless you choose to be. Last I saw, Bern wasn't into abstinence. So the real issues are that Bern doesn't give in to the violence of her culture, and the biggie right now is Maytag.

You cannot be corrupted without your failing. As in, if Bern is doing something in a moment of weakness, this is her being corrupted. But if Bern does something "corrupt" for a noble reason, is it atill corrupt? Or has she made a choice that she believes  in,  in which case would that would be noble, since it is her choice not being manipulated by Warden.

As much as she loves May, this is someone she also loves. It was May's decision to be exclusive, she didn't make Bern do this. So this is a choice she can make according to her own morals. Now, here's the real thing. She loves Polly. But she doesn't want it to be cheap. To be like bad porn.

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« on: July 22, 2015, 05:28:40 am »
Bern is a bit of an idiot for jumping at deals. She can't help it. She's honest, and wants to help, and doesn't tend to think ahead. But yea, she's better with this than with a random stranger. The real problem of course is there is another person involved (remember? May?) So this isn't cut and dry.

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« on: July 15, 2015, 06:32:58 am »
I would imagine mildly so.  As in, more of a "guys are icky" deal (hence most of her love interests seem to be girls) than a sorta "men shouldn't be allowed to vote" thing.  She thinks guys that actually show talent (like big I-beam guy) are cool with her, but probably sees alot of guys that are all talk and no action. Or who are pushy jerks that want to rape her.

Keep in mind we have seen Maytag have sex with either gender, but Bern seems to be gold star lesbian. At least some of that is from either sexism, or really bad experiences with men in the past.

Pffft. Bern is sexist, maybe. Maytag on the other hand, is a sex fiend.

Something occurred to me when rereading this. The guy said Harker used to be in charge, and he had a rape penchant, and went on and on about it. Yet Warden calls the guy Harker. Given that I think she'd know the difference between two people... is it possible this guy has a Jekyll and Hyde personality? That Harker "isn't in charge anymore" because he's gotten control of him?

I saw Inside Out too! It was so cute...  :-*

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« on: July 13, 2015, 04:25:22 am »
You'd be right and wrong. First off, out of the gate, it's an anarchy. There are no known anarchies in this world. The closest thing is Switzerland, which allows all citizens to basically carry around guns with them, and has meeting summits for world leaders. How does it maintain sovereignty? By having everyone armed to defend the country. Second closest is the Holy Roman empire, which last years and years, despite being a disorganized mess.
"Nature abhors a vacuum," they say but actually it's just fear and uncertainty. In any case, no such restrictions exist here. Since it's there, there are forces both for its stability, and for its destruction. On the one hand, it is likely to cannibalize itself either through  taxes, corruption, or something else. On the other, it has a healthy economy, doesn't appear to want to change (meaning no voting for leader, and no revolt, and no revolt), is a tax free state, and really isn't a state meaning there are no rules. It also runs a justice system very effectively on bread and circuses. Yeah there are many things kinda sick about the country, but I can see why Polly used to say she loved the country.
It's not for everyone, clearly. But between that and creepy wizards controlling everyone with smoke and mirrors, I think I trust a government that doesn't lie about what it is more. It's disorganized, it's greedy, and its prison are hypocritical. I don't think they claimed to be any utopia, whereas the other place has a whole magic kingdom that we later find out is fake, supported by science when most of the citizens are blissfully unaware of how the tech they use works or even what a machine is.

Anyway... this filler strip is kinda funny, because this is largely what Flipside has done with the gender roles of the characters. Bern, Maytag, and other women seem very much in the lead. The men on the other hand, are largely in the background.

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« on: July 12, 2015, 04:48:18 pm »
Nah, there is an upside. It's a free country as long as you mind other people's space. You wanna turn tricks? Have a con artistry business? Nobody cares. Free country, free enterprise, and no taxes. Just don't bully ppl. There's plenty good about the country, but only if you can understand how to live without hurting others.

Of course, it's easier for people with a business mindset than people who are only good at stealing.

Nudity wouldn't cut it as a deal. They'd need more than that.

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« on: July 10, 2015, 08:48:20 am »
I seriously don't think anyone cares about Bern's sexual purity, guys.   ;D

I know how gambling works in boxing and horse-racing, from watching movies, and it tends to run like the following.

High bidder sees a favorite, and the house will either: (a) set things up so the favorite is provoked (either by "treats or threats") to throw the match, giving them the money of what would have been a clear winner, (b) set it up to look like a long shot, arrange a deal with the highest bidder, and make him win like crazy while everyone else is fooled, or (c) fail to do either of these, and eventually they run into a "no contest" situation where the person is too good, and they have to give handicaps to them. This was done in a movie about horse-racing and eventually they had to hobble the horse. It still won, but they had to retire it eventually.

Given what we know of Bern and Polly, I can imagine B but not A.

Also, love this flat "Get out."   

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« on: July 08, 2015, 01:53:38 pm »
I think they're gonna tell Bern and Polly that it's important they throw the match. Something about odds looking too good. Which of course is something Bern isn't okay with. If she refuses, she'll probably hit them with some obnoxiously hard match.

Kinda sucks. Her blade is indomitable, she has the skill, and she has a great teammate, but corrupt betting systems are what they are. Hopefully, this thing will pass and Bern will actually be able to pay down their stuff.

In all likelihood, Bern will be too much of a boy scout (sorry, girl scout doesn't really match because mainly all they do now is sell cookies) to outright agree to throw the match (plus seeing as how she almost died  last time, yeaaaa... no). But she might meet her halfway, and agree to make the battle look much harder than it actually is, while people are still betting. Some goodwill goes a long way, though she still wants to win.

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« on: July 06, 2015, 07:27:52 pm »
No, all this sacrifice was just to let Bern do this rank-up match.
I am really surprised that Bern is able to sleep through all this. She could've tried a little harder than "Are you sure...?" to convince her. But I guess Bern doesn't really want to have sex with random dudes for 19 days; she would've probably done it for one time (or whatever the initial price was; why Polly set the price so high is beyond me). Can't blame her, but I was expecting her to try some kind of maneuver to fix this.
I do hope that the comic will fast-forward to some point after the deed has been done.

She set it that way so Bern would just drop the issue. She wanted Bern to get her stuff done without being all screwed up. Geez guys, hasn't anyone done something for you, without letting you pay them pack? She sees herself as already tainted and wants to keep Bern from getting screwed up similarly.

Her motive right here.
And here.

You see Polly as an innocent, but she's done worse, as far as she's concerned (remember, perspective is a good portion of this, and many rape victims feel like they deserve it). Bern very much would want her to be free from this, but she will need to do it some other way.

Also, this skip may very well be conservation of detail. Since Bern's not awake to stop it, we don't see it.

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« on: June 30, 2015, 04:11:50 pm »
I've known a girl like this (her name was Paula, so it even sounded similar). Polly likely will try to hurt her if she messes with her decision. She can offer to share, but not to take it instead. It just doesn't work that way.

Anyway, we can quibble all we want about how Bern didn't really earn stuff, and we have to earn everything in life. But life doesn't necessarily work that way. Bern's dad sold everything he had to give her a fighting chance. Polly put herself into sex slavery so that Bern could have a better life.

Yes, I know it's easy to see this as an obligation to pay off. But the fact of the matter is, these were not favors, they were love offerings. Trying to undo their sacrifices is like saying "I don't appreciate your gift." Bern can ask if she can share this with Polly. But likely if Polly wanted that, she would have allowed it earlier. You have two people who are noble and stubborn. Bern can't win here, because sex slavery is exactly what Polly doesn't want for Bern.

No, Bern should not offer to take her place. She should instead try to fight for Polly's freedom from the deal.  Challenge someone, and be like, "if I lose I share her price, if I win, I buy her freedom from this."

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« on: June 28, 2015, 04:14:12 am »
I agree with it being short (about that length), loose, and removable.

What I don't buy is the absolutely shabby material cost, and the the fact that it provides zero protection for your bum from illness. Simple fix make it closed in back, but stretchy so it can be adjusted easily. It's not just a fashion concern, it's a health concern.

They have better designs they can use. They just aren't using them.

Who knows how many sick people before you have been lying down on that sickbed? Oh sure, they clean the hospital. But ummm, I worked as a janitor for a brief stint, cleaning hospitals. I don't recall ever spraying the beds, we mainly dusted and mopped. I wouldn't lie on that bed if I could help it. Not with an exposed rear end.

I typically make $10 an hour. Are you telling me that at over $200 an hour, they can't cut maybe $5 hourly from each doctor's paycheck and pay to make a better design? Even a buck would probably pay to have one with the butt covered.

 The comparison is that the prison gladiator thing could give prisoners better clothes to wear. Better treatment. Better lives. But they aren't. This is not because of some secret fetish thing. It's because they are cheapskates and want to squeeze as much money out as possible. The people running this show are basically too busy making money hand over fist, but "we're struggling" or "times are bad" (or "we've had a recession lately") whenever anyone asks them to shell out any money for human rights. What? You think people like worrying about the fact that before they came, people were even getting raped? No thanks. 

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« on: June 26, 2015, 03:42:23 pm »
I dunno. I try to avoid hospitals as much as possible. The fact remains, even though your clothes might contain contaminants there is no good reason for the sort of assless chaps thing going on with hospital gowns. The hospital is cold, and the ventilation system can spread disease through coughing and puking. As noted on several articles about anal sex, that area is disease sensitive.

Yes, some of it is staffing. But some of it is that doctors are arrogant and on a power kick. "This patient was rude to me, so let's ignore him for awhile." And some of it  is outright incompetence. My dad was in emergency for upwards of six hours. He had a side collision while driving into an intersection that had power outage from a hurricane. I was not allowed to ride in the ambulance, unless I got treated (no joke, being family didn't mean a thing, so I get to walk upwards of six blocks to a hospital where they took him).  I got to the hospital, and it was two hours, before they even checked him in. Seriously, they didn't know who he was, and I wasn't allowed to go in do to stupid rules. Then I call my mom, and she gets there from another town, squawks, and finally they let me see him. The doctors were useless. Triage (ppl get separated into not serious enough to treat, dying regardless, and dying but we can prevent it). He's not critical enough that we have to perform surgery, so rather than staffing even one doctor on him, hey ummm, yea. The sooner you treat, the sooner we can go home and be out of your hair. A quick cast, pain medicine, and a wheelchair home. That's all he needs. Nope, they sat and joked with each other, while my mom was freaking out, and we get to figure out what to do with our car (no insurance after that one). So yea, I wouldn't put it past them to pull stuff like that.

Basically, if you have an organization that is not funded by the state, they will try to save money (ditto, if the state sets cost regulations). They will do so by cutting material costs however possible (hence the hospital gown comparison, sure maybe there's different reasons, but it is a cheap as heck gown). If Bern had been given D Class weapons to go with her armor, this would basically be some cheap sword that would break after a few swings, and she'd be told "not my problem" if it broke.

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« on: June 24, 2015, 02:57:56 pm »

Totally not fanservice.

I believe that Flipside has had uncovered breasts in the past. I couldn't say exactly when, though. The only thing that comes to mind right now is Maytag bathing with Regina.

Maytag got stripped nude by that sword attack with the guy wearing the Xibulba collar.

But really, the fanservice seems to be currently following rules of plotline. As in, you couldn't reasonably expect Bern to go braless for like 30 pages. You could possibly expect Polly and Bern to at some point get it on, and this would be a plot reason for showing bare breasts. Or when Polly is making out with a bunch of people to pay off that debt.

Oh also bulmabriefs144 didn't even catch that the arena clothing was meant to sexualize the fighters so perhaps that indicates that the arena clothing designs are a bit too plain, too close to gladiators which were half naked but not really really meant to be sexualized... I think...?

Actually, you will notice that on men and women, the uniforms basically cover the sex organs. They aren't to wear much, but not just because of sexuality. It's cheap to make, a few strips of cloth to cover the essential bits, so they can pretty much get away with it because it entertains those watching the show. It's also degrading. As in, it makes you feel less powerful or worthwhile to be stripped almost naked and forced to fight. Don't believe me? Explain the rationale behind hospital gowns.  Now explain why people don't tend to quibble with doctors after being forced into the gown, left alone for hours, and told to poop in basins instead of proper toilets. You can think it's all about sex, but actually, it has little to do with it.

It also appears you can buy in for clothing or weapons, in a piecemeal fashion. The A ranks had capes, the old guy was fully clothed (thank god), and the girl had armor on one side.

This scene was adorable.

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« on: June 22, 2015, 02:27:43 pm »
Have you considered counseling for your sex addiction?

Never even thought about this. It's an outfit, it's for fighting, we don't need to fixate on it. Gladiators are scantily clad because it's cheaper to do so than give them full armor. At a certain point, crossing into sex fetish zone and the fighters would complain.

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« on: June 21, 2015, 06:52:34 pm »
Polly asked her how she felt, and she answered.

Also, again, she never asked this. She got outbid. Reread the thing. Even had she tried to do it, "nope, I'm gonna bid 10 for each you do, so you're hurting me." "...Okay I'll stop."

Bern seems selfish, maybe, but saying this would be so out of character it wouldn't be funny. If Polly was like "So not looking forward to spending time with a bunch of men/women/dogs" Bern would be like "There has to be some other way! You don't have to do that." As it is, Bern got outbid and threatened, so she's not gonna push the issue. Also, not reminding Polly of this, is kinda a sore point.

"I'm sorry you have to sleep with..." "^&#@*$ Bern, why did you bring that up?"

Also, I've known real-life escorts. I've almost been an escort. Being preachy and moralistic does not make you come across as unselfish. It makes you come across as a jerk. Polly chose this, saying this belittles her sacrifice.  I had a friend who did garden work, and she wanted me to help her hook up with a guy (bringing me along). I was like "fuck that, don't wanna" and she's now kinda an ex-friend. In general, yes, it is a sad fact of life for women. But it's something Polly decided.

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« on: June 19, 2015, 06:37:40 pm »
"Keep up the good work, and you'll be paying down those marks in no time!"

Translation: "Keep fighting as well as you did today, and you'll be increasing our profits in no time!"

Yeah, 'Sex-plotation' is our business after all!  Nothing draws more audience than two sexy scantily clad hotties kicking Ass in our arena!  We don't Even have to pay you for the work... win-win-win! {At least for us the arena admins}... don't die ...too quickly! :)

..All of these people as Ass-hats!!!

Room and board is actually reasonable. In this day and age, we forget that these scraps of paper are only valuable if they add up to living wages, and many people are actually living outside their means.

Like ummm, possibly the arena guys. Sure they could be living in mansions, but seriously, I don't envy what they have to go through to earn it.

Remember, the definition of slavery is not "didn't pay you money" it's "didn't pay you a living wage and/or the work you are doing is such that you should be paid way more for putting up with it." Trust me, I've worked at places that technically did pay me but not steadily enough to live on, and the job was degrading. Still felt like slavery.

They still need to escape though, as they can't keep hurting people just to live.

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« on: June 16, 2015, 08:10:14 pm »
Why do I feel sickened at the crowd's roar of approval for Bern's victory? What a bunch of monsters...  >:(

They didn't know they were trying to kill her.

There goes that theory. If the prison director is making such bets, then murder must be a known and accepted option in Marvolo. This kind of changes everything in the prison, and maybe town.

Where was Brion's post about what goes there again?

Not necessarily.. he IS the director and certainly 'in-the-know' of things going on in the prison... things the general public are not likely aware of.  I could see a private betting pool between the officials running the prison on special events.

But you are correct, this is pretty damning of their entire "justice" system...!!!

Bern in her 'crime' did not hurt anyone, did not kill anyone, and only intimidated the possibility of force ...Only to get a professional healer to heal on their agreed upon time that they said they would wait for her to acquire the funds to save a man's life...  AND simply because Bern refused to be their sex toy or maim herself or torture/kill another person ALL for their Sick pleasure... they decided to have a hit-squad of killers brutally murder her in a arena spectacle that they intended to make money off both with admission fees and side bets!

The Marvolo 'government' are the lowest of the low... a mockery of any real government.

ANY veneer of "rule of law" or legitimacy as a justice system is clearly a sham!  In my opinion Bern would be quite justified in just rampaging her way through them all and fighting her way out of there... regardless if they declare her outlaw!  Considering their "justice" system, or lack thereof... I would consider it a badge of honor to be declared Outlaw and Criminal by their 'society'.. if that's what you want to call the thuggery they are touting as a Government, Law, and Justice system!!!

Basically, if the government won't pay for healing and the government won't protect healers from being forced to heal at below market prices, healers will find their situations highly tenuous and likely will leave for better governed lands (changing jobs is possible, but less attractive given your investing into becoming a healer, especially if you can't hide the fact that you used to be a healer well, as then people will simply hit you up for healing on your new job) or will choose to not become healers in the first place, as it would be seen as a job for suckers that don't mind being robbed. In either case healing would become rather hard to come by if you lacked the wealth to personally hire and guard a healer, for personal or "general" (very expensive) use. Obviously the government is leaving some things to be desired, but unless there's reason to believe that effectively abolishing healing would push enough relevant people over the edge to successfully and without excessive cost overthrow the government and replace it with a superior enough one (I believe it's unknown to us whether such violent revolution is truly possible, as well as whether the new government would be better or worse, and by how much) it would seem better to keep the market for healing functional.

Uhhhh, just a heads up.

Unlike certain governments, they make no pretense at law or justice or anything like that. They are a constitutional anarchy governed by a commercial punishment system. It's very much a business, and everyone knows it. If you pay a commercial group to enforce law, they figure out how to make it profitable.

Government doesn't pay for anything. Because they have basically no taxes, and people do what they want. If there is a need (say, electricity) people hire someone to take care of it. Given this, yes medicine can be stingy, and yes there is some pretty sketchy justice system. Bern made the mistake of putting her norms into this. But it's not really subject to them. Mind your space, and it treats you okay, just don't threaten anyone.

Also, where's my mini-fridge?

The punishment is not a violation of the social contract. Bern used force to demand a service. Punishment was meted out. Bern agreed to the punishment. This is all reasonable and thus far she has no cause for complaint.

The problem is in the manner in which the punishment was meted out. Bern broke the rules of the jail by refusing to fight. What did she think was going to happen? It's foolishness. But the rabid response by the authority, including the attempt on Bern's life, violates the agreed upon terms. That was a murder attempt by authority against Bern. No one in authority seems to have worked to avoid it.

Bern has a right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. In commission of her crime, she stole someone else's right to liberty and pursuit of happiness. Therefore, it is natural that hers be revoked for a little while. That was just. Bern agreed to the terms of her captivity. She could have languored in prison, instead chose to be a part of the arena. But the attempt at murder violated the social contract. Bern and those who support her cause have the right to violently oppose this authority (in a manner consistent with preserving the natural rights of others) until the conditions have been rectified.

This is all very interesting, but these rights can be suppressed (not revoked, mind, not while you live). If you are a prisoner, you are not free, and largely cannot pursue happiness. So you effectively have to earn your freedom. Given this, it is not reasonable to assume that life is guaranteed. It isn't that they are trying to kill her so much as they don't care enough to stop her from dying at bottom D rank.

This is not the US, it's more like the Roman Empire, minus centralized power.

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« on: June 12, 2015, 09:22:32 pm »
Let's think about boxing. It's not set up as a bloodsport per se. But because of the better culture, it becomes extremely corrupt. Not only that, because blows to the head are not discouraged (well, it involves a knockout, rather than like sumo a simple ringout, and while you could in theory knock someone out through body blows, the results in long term might be internal bleeding), it is easy to over time crush someone brains out. This is a sport with known potential for corruption.

Or football, where 300+ lb guys are encouraged to tackle (pinning would be alot safer) meaning a high-speed impact with 300 lb of weight. These might as well be human cars. To say nothing of also extreme brain injuries because of the extremely hard helmets (what was wrong with leather headgear again? Seriously). This is a sport where there might be corruption, but we would not know about it from the setup.

The audience doesn't think about the lethal aspects of the event, if it's not commonplace. If it is commonplace, they can become desensitized to it. But in the cause that it is rare, there is such a thing as a planned accident.

Let's use football as an example again. Suppose a player was really unpopular, some idealist type that made a lot of changes and upgrades to the sport. The teammates love them, the audience doesn't know about this, and the officials hate them. Under family-friendly rules, let's say the teams are paid money to arrange a little "accident". Sometime during the 3rd quarter, the player has the ball after being hiked back, and is preparing to throw it. Instead of guarding the player, the team fans out, as if preparing to catch the pass (but in fact, leaving that player completely  open) while they figure out who to throw it to. In comes the other team, slamming together against this player. From the audience's perspective, it's a bad play. They don't think "that guy is going home in a body bag."

I don't know that it's to that point yet, but still...

So back to the "games". We know that this country, because there are no taxes, everything including basic utilities is run by business. We also know that it is a constitutional anarchy. The games, then, are every bit as corrupt as boxing, and worse, the audience is probably told that the players are healed after every game, and repeatedly told about the penalty (as in, propaganda that the games are safe). Whether people are alive and wounded, or very clearly dead, they are likely walked off the field in much the same way so as the audience sees what they expect to see, not someone killed because they were a trouble maker, but X fighter beat Y in battle, so rather than a bloodfest, they just think of it as an exciting fight.

There is also the fact that there is the "no force" culture. You can conceivably have that, but there are certain side effects, like that some violent drives get pushed into the background and people subconsciously crave things like gore and rape. That is, without reasonable situations where people would fight to defend themselves (think about Bern's original situation, and how she was basically not even allowed to threaten the guy), the outlet for some of their flight or fight hormones manifests in weird ways.

Hopefully, between her dad betting on her, and possibly the warden betting on her, her debt can be paid off. Otherwise, I don't know how she'd hold up in future battles, except against opponents that didn't understand her sword. Hopefully, she can use the downtime to figure out more of what it does.

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« on: June 10, 2015, 09:12:43 am »
Modes? This isn't digimon.  ;D His sword just had a stun effect for the flat of the blade.

That said you have a point (also, in the portion above, the Warden actually has had her back, as she pulled some strings to get her the swords and the battle; it's just she has a narrow view), as from studying how these swords work, I have a pretty good idea how they work.

It's called transference. They aren't antimagic so much as able to transfer heat, cold, force, physical power, etc. Given this, I bet if she wanted to, she could use them as healing swords (by transferring injuries to herself, though). And I'm sure there are other things she can do. It probably can "dispel" magical weapons (by pulling the magical power from the weapon, and having it on short-term storage). And it probably can cut through magical forcefields.

Bern would probably be okay with sex with Polly, but thankfully not random strangers. That said, I think Bern has a strong need right now to remain faithful. It's one of those things couples discuss together, because cheating is not okay, but May might be open for a threesome if asked.

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« on: June 09, 2015, 12:16:12 pm »
Yay! Battle won!

Two worries though...

One, the crowd may call for blood in order for her to get A rank.

Two, I'm not clear how the bidding went on those handicaps. As in, Warden said something about how all previous bets are in place or something. Does that mean that while Polly outbidded her, she also has to spend a few nights with strangers? Or is it all on Polly?

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« on: June 04, 2015, 06:56:46 am »
I honestly don't know if what the warden is assuming is true, but her analytical thinking (and assumption) is impressive. I'll make yet another bold prediction down the line: Bern and the warden WILL do battle for Bern's (and quite possible Polly's) freedom. Whether or not Bern tries to escape now, or later. And it will be a battle of epic Flipside proportions, possibly the greatest battle of Bern's life...  ;D

I thought so too. I also think that the Warden's filter of how events were will give her an advantage in said battle. The bruiser she's fighting now figured out what's up, and this is precisely why the battle is so hard (plus his crazy determination). The Warden sees it as a hot sword, because she has a filter around what Bern can and can't do, and has been consistently seeing Bern as just fighting well, yet not seeing the reality of what is happening. When she gets outmatched, her filter sees "just as I thought, she isn't a real warrior." Bern proved her wrong, and rather than admit it, "Oh she got lucky and/or planned this." Maybe she isn't a "real" warrior, but she can hold her own. It isn't that the Warden underestimates her though, but rather, she completely sees her as worthy and simultaneously completely missed this battle because she knows the swords are magical but doesn't understand them.

Fact: She was not in contact with the sword for long enough for it to still be hot, and if it was, it would have conducted into the weapon when she blocked it. Not to mention burning her hands. Fact: Her swords actual power is to take the force with one sword, and transfer it into another. Fact: None of this is shown in the previous comics (I checked) meaning Warden is taking minute details and spinning it to match what she saw.

That is, the "hot" sword was actually giving pain that he was giving her. But, what the audience is explaining it as (since they're far away and can't see directly, and because filtering it another way is at odds with their understanding of how magic works) is as a "hot" sword. Or maybe Bern is wrong about the sword. Truth is in eye of the beholder, I guess.

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« on: June 03, 2015, 06:19:30 am »
Lolwut?  ??? I don't even remember that event. She touched the ball for all of two seconds while on the ground.

I think she completely failed to realize what this sword does from where she sits, and made a screwy assumption.  Also, that moment  totally looks planned, right?!? (Wrong, starting with her "planning" on getting choked to death)  ;D

Which kind of defines the situation, from where the audience sits they probably see her having a really strong sword, and are filling in the gaps with their assumptions (I wonder what they saw when the sword mirror-swapped those two spells). It's all about perspective and assumptions.

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« on: June 02, 2015, 11:20:59 am »
It's actually simple physics.

The guy is holding her. One sword is embedded inside, he chokes her and applies force. Her sword touches him and "burns" him (actually what is happening is more like a super-strong arm grab to his arm, breaking his grip). He lets go. Now here's where physics comes in. She's effectively using leverage/momentum/gravity to push her leg against him. This is not a kick, this is a "my sword is stuck inside you, so I'm using my feet to lean against you to pull the sword out." Note that she showed her foot pressing flatly against is chest, near the sword. This is exactly what's happening, she's pressing against him to pull her sword out. The sudden loss of suction as the sword comes out is knocking him off balance, not her strength. This is also what is causing a massive amount of blood to fly out. Consider it like this, the sword was attached to his body like a giant sideways T, she pulls the line out, and he falls over because he's not attached to her anymore. Effectively, even if she exerts no strength, leaning on the sword like that is 125 lb or so of weight.


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