Messages

421

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 45: discussion

« on: January 11, 2016, 01:52:21 pm »

Well, it's easy for us to judge Crest, but that's effectively the same thing.

Crest is probably Borderline Personality Disorder (which accounts for some of his idealization and devaluation patterns). Emotionally unstable people need love too! 

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Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 45: discussion

« on: January 09, 2016, 02:02:03 pm »

The smart thing for Crest to be doing now is to be testing whether the people around are speaking the truth. However, I suspect Crest is, as I say reeling from "fool me twice" syndrome. He believes that he can't trust May, so he spent all of his energy trusting Suspiria. And now he believes he can't trust her either. He could be wrong on both counts actually, but so far he doesn't seem prone to testing things out.

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Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 45: discussion

« on: January 08, 2016, 11:16:45 am »

He's decided that because the facts seem to add up a certain way, to not test them.

We have a passionate but troubled person, who is upset about her schoolmates bullying her and believes rightly or wrongly that her parents are killed. Who put her life at risk to make sure Crest was on her side.

Next we have being with no body, and a freaking flesh eating summon, who for all Crest knows, could have hired actors to convince Crest. We know NOTHING about this person. Who actually admitted to killing the parents earlier, meaning at least one of his statements is a blatant lie. And yet Crest trusts them instead of someone he's spent time with.

This is actually the second time Crest has let HIS feelings of betrayal get in the way of trust. The first was when Maytag came out as an emotionless girl. Rather than being "we love you anyway" Crest acts like she did something horribly wrong.

Dude WTF?!?

Now, in terms of feeling betrayed. I can get that. I can even get the feeling of "what's the point?" futility. But I think when a person has shown trustworthiness, it seems like you should at least check them. A person known for killing people (to the point of a patented spell), on the other hand, is likely a murderer.

I pride myself at having some knowledge of people's character and of logic. Logic tells me Qtalda is lying about something. Knowledge of Suspiria tells me she's a revenge obsessed person, not a manipulator. Without a reason for revenge, her past makes no sense.

bulmabriefs114, her memories could be altered in a controlled or uncontrolled manner, which is why there's even a reason Crest can entertain the side of the story Qtalda and friends gave him.

Ohhh, I misread. Qtalda's story. Yes, I suppose that would make some sense. Still, it would not render her guilty of anything, just dangerous by reason of insanity.

In either case, if Crest likes Suspiria, there is no reason to go after her on Qtalda's behalf. If he doesn't like her anymore, there is also no reason to go after her. This is a Morton's Fork.

424

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 45: discussion

« on: January 07, 2016, 05:46:21 pm »

I suppose if one assumes that Suspiria is unreliable due to having been altered into a "monster" and one accepts that she's a level four sorcerer (or at least very exceptionally powerful now) one could assume that it's possible or even likely that she physically manipulated everyone but Halcyon (if not also him), or created puppets of them after having disposed of them (in Qtalda's case only disposing of an "avatar" by mistake (assuming the current Qtalda is an independent being!)) in order to convince Crest to trust her in a concretely demonstrable way (that may also reinforce his commitment to her) by committing to using the sword on her (perhaps there was no need for this either, and thus no physical risk to Suspiria, if it was all a staged scenario). I don't find this especially likely at least in whole from a story standpoint, but if Crest reset his opinion on the basis of being unable to trust in Suspiria's nature given that it may have been altered by a large amount by the mysterious Thin Man, it could make sense.

I wonder. It seems like some of these experiments have side effects. Bloody Mary has insatiable hunger for flesh. Suspiria has incredible mental (or whatever) development and grows horns. Okay, let's think about this. Brain on overdrive. Could it be possible for her to have distorted memories? Well, it worked on Final Fantasy 8 with GF junctions.

425

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 45: discussion

« on: December 31, 2015, 09:54:06 am »

Awwww. I wanted to see May get turned into a monster. 

426

Flipside Discussion / Re: XMAS Special 2015: Discussion

« on: December 28, 2015, 05:54:56 pm »

Feeling the LOVE! 

427

Flipside Discussion / Re: XMAS Special 2015: Discussion

« on: December 17, 2015, 10:50:40 am »

Is creeped out by the Dark Christmas premise. 

428

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 44: Discussion

« on: December 12, 2015, 09:24:30 am »

I wonder if Marce is actually behind all this stuff (as in, Qualia, magic, everything), and Lehm is actually working with her for a chance to stop her?

I have a feeling the 3rd phase isn't as bad as all that, and by "done with her", this implies that the 4th phase has a tendency to mindwipe or kill off candidates (which Marce uses to make blank slate monsters).

429

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 44: Discussion

« on: December 11, 2015, 01:02:15 pm »

I think the last part is hint on what Marce is. She's not just a crazy girl. She's probably not human at all, in fact.

In fact, I would venture to say that she and the Dark Cell have a great deal in common. A great deal.

Though this doesn't count as a lie, since he never spoke about this.

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Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 44: Discussion

« on: December 10, 2015, 12:06:27 pm »

This is a very good point (and probably also true), but I think I have a good idea of what Maytag knows is the lie.

I'm not gonna tell you guys (I'm gonna ask Brion by PM so as not to give it away), but I'll give you a hint. If I'm right, the lie has to do with the first test Maytag was subjected to when she met the Thin Man.

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Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 44: Discussion

« on: December 09, 2015, 05:33:20 pm »

There's a few possible options. Some of which are other lies not relevant to the one May is thinking of.

(1) There's one right off the bat. Supposedly Thin Man only uses magic for learning the truth. Only it's obvious that in order to find this portal, he needed to do some warp magic. Among other things.
(2) That these people just "happen" to become monsters. It is obvious that simple experimentation would not produce the wide array of side effects Bloody Mary has. Extreme regeneration might indeed create the vampiric state of Bloody Mary, but not the fear demon. Likewise, Suspiria has no reason to create horny extensions from her hair for an effect that just awakens her powers.
(3) That Thin Man might actually know what is in the deepest layers of the the Dark Cell.
(4) Even more disturbing, the reason the paintbrush might not work is because the Thin Man designed it. Along with the Dark Cell. As some kind of test to farm people for some kind of experiment.
(5) Most likely, he's lying about even giving the reward. Candidates in all odds get memory wiped after they outlast their usefulness. Unless she can erase-proof her memory.
(6) "...And that's all the cheating we've done." Sure it is.

Hold up. How does the thin man know that 10 steps is the limit of the third phase? Seems like #3 is the case.
 

432

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 44: Discussion

« on: December 04, 2015, 02:20:16 pm »

I can think of some more. Bringing in magical items. We know they won't work outside, but we don't know what happens inside.

And what about a person being blindfolded in? Or ignoring what they see.

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Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 44: Discussion

« on: November 26, 2015, 03:32:57 pm »

There are two types of apathy. Being apathetic about life in general. Or apathy about an event.

The latter allows her to move, but not the former. If she can shrug what the dark cell shows her but care about moving ahead, this might work.

Another option is to have an Erudite mind, and just be able to say "this isn't real." Even without a reminder.

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Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 44: Discussion

« on: November 24, 2015, 07:30:16 pm »

It MIGHT be the person to Corona's right that she's blushing and looking away from in panel seven, whom she calls master. ;p

Heh. 

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Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 44: Discussion

« on: November 20, 2015, 09:26:07 am »

Tying a person to a cart would have them trying to get free. At complete amnesia/brain adjustment, they would immediately decide that someone was kidnapping them, and adrenaline would have them wriggling out and running backwards through the phases.

Even if you chained them, they would either dig in their feet (getting crushed) or get through, only to be chained up. Or they have a key to the chains which they use immediately.

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Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 44: Discussion

« on: November 19, 2015, 03:15:00 pm »

I'm pretty sure it has something to do with why Maytag is a candidate.

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Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 44: Discussion

« on: November 18, 2015, 09:46:08 pm »

Wouldn't work.

It is entirely psychological. But the nature of this effect means that the physical reality is negated.
This third one is an existential replacement.

Let me give an example of the effect:

Suppose I had a girlfriend (I don't, too shy). We are joined at the hip, finishing other's sentences, and cuddling every day. So ummm, one day, I decide I don't deserve her, and I treat her like crap. She leaves forever. This is an example of negative reality displacement, where one's current situation is displaced by one's outlook.

Of course, the opposite is also true. Suppose, I, as a shy person, have lived my whole life alone. Growing tired of this, I tell myself that I deserve a partner too. I find a sweet girl that I deeply admire, and even though she is currently seeing someone, I give her some reason to see that I'm a good person to be with. This is an example of positive reality displacement.

They are trying too hard to remember that this isn't real. Right, it isn't. But you don't concentrate on that fact, since your mind knows this but your body convinces you otherwise. You instead think of how to work to steadily improve your reality, and not fall further into despair.

438

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 44: Discussion

« on: November 18, 2015, 11:32:31 am »

They're wrong.

It's not impossible. Yes, it is impossible to do this through lucid dreaming.

But I have a feeling she's going to do something even weirder.

439

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 44: Discussion

« on: November 18, 2015, 03:58:35 am »

She hasn't been active that long. When you study someone, you don't just meet them and ditch. We have. We have a healing test that may have at first seemed okay. She heal wounds, she had incurable wounds, fear demon. No problem. But that new candidate? They're not still there. While some may have been memory erased if they weren't useful, suppose some got eaten. At first, they go unnoticed, but then it's like "Mary!" Om nom nom, "hmmm?" "We're going to release you for our safety, mkay?"

We don't know the timeframe of events, including whether she went unnoticed outside for awhile too. We do know that he made a number of experiments leading up to the conclusion that the dark cell was at the core of whatever truth there is, and the sequence of events may be different than we think.

440

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 44: Discussion

« on: November 16, 2015, 06:59:16 pm »

I don't think that's it. The Dark Cell is only part of things, not the whole.

The Thin Man was curious about the source of magic, so he asked about it.

Brush told him about Qualia.

Discovering that magic was in fact not from supernatural cause, he recruited people who were willing to be studied, and experimented on them with the seed of power. This was to understand what exactly was going on when supposedly these people were unlocking seals.

Next he was curious about regeneration. Why? Because he wanted to see how healing worked. He also experimented on effects that could simulate fear and unhealable wounds, all effects that seemed strictly supernatural.  He found out these were mostly biological effects (fear demon is a mucous that releases pheromones, and the "curse" is simply a chemical that breaks down bonds to prevent closure of wounds).

I imagine there were a few other "monsters", experiments to understand various magical effects.

So then, he asks "if these things are have a framework that isn't magic, then why is it that people cannot see them as such?"

The brush showed him the Dark Cell.   

441

Flipside Discussion / What is Corona's Vision?

« on: November 09, 2015, 06:27:01 pm »

We can tell May's vision is, from character context. Bern basically tells her off, and she is left alone, rejected by the last person who cares about her.

But has anyone figured out what Corona is afraid of?

We see her standing looking at at a shadow on the lucid dreaming page.
We see her sweating over a Transmography book.
We see her with Rhodes, implying she has been here awhile.

442

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 44: Discussion

« on: November 09, 2015, 06:10:57 pm »

Well, it's a good theory. But it's much like having an interesting experience (let's say the results of a vision quest) and trying to convince a room full of people who are completely unsuperstitious. Their experiences basically are a filter here, and they see only what they see, so you can't convince them and they can't convince you of anything.

You and your twin could probably share enough experiences that this would work, but otherwise...

443

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 44: Discussion

« on: November 08, 2015, 02:09:39 pm »

I'm pretty sure the only way past this is to fight this version of reality with her own. Not so much trying to remember, as trying to kinda be like "I know how Bern is, she would never do this!" or something. They've tried all sorts of remembering techniques, but I think this is it, she simply has to be tougher than the forces trying to get her to forget.

444

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 44: Discussion

« on: November 05, 2015, 01:12:14 pm »

 

The second problem being that we associate pain with being real, hence the whole "pinching yourself" deal.

You need someone else there to simply tell you this is not real. Maytag, you're in a webcomic.

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Flipside Discussion / Re: Mistake Thread

« on: October 24, 2015, 02:36:31 am »

I'm unsure if this can be called a mistake, but ummm... once you've done the explanation of why to prepare her for the third, put that first, then the reward part, then going to the gate.

That would be exposition, transition,  action sequence. Currently, we have moved the characters to the point where they enter, and rather than having them enter in the next screen, we backpedal to talking about the reward, then wind up in a room. It's almost like it's not ready to move ahead yet.

These are good scenes, but probably reorder them?

446

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 44: Discussion

« on: October 16, 2015, 05:24:26 am »

Speaking of programming and stuff, someone mentioned this as warriors training. I disagreed because Bern is more the warrior.
I do however think the key to being useful, is to find a way to gain abilities from this. Either being able to communicate with Qualia or a sort of antimagic. Or Lucy-like reality powers.

At the very least, if she gets past this, he can't erase her memories because she would know how to keep them.

447

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 44: Discussion

« on: October 12, 2015, 04:26:31 pm »

She's betting.

She wants to see if he'll raise. As in, just how much this is worth it to him. If he refuses, he obviously isn't really there for the right reason, so to speak.

He'll probably tell her "Only if you go all the way."

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Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 44: Discussion

« on: October 11, 2015, 04:31:45 am »

I was thinking the message to self, and lucid dreaming is definitely a way to remember, though I'm not sure whether these guys know about it.

449

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 44: Discussion

« on: October 06, 2015, 09:40:55 am »

Dat finger. I have an Objection to it.

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Flipside Discussion / Re: Mistake Thread

« on: October 02, 2015, 03:56:28 am »

Ah ok. The current one has a small graphical issue. It says she's been trying for 7 years. It should probably be a closed circle. Instead it's pointing to her. Normally this would mean she is speaking.