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Messages - bulmabriefs144

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421
Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« on: May 09, 2015, 04:23:29 pm »
Blue.

I guess next limbs will come off and flipside will go all monty python black knight on us.

Bit late for that. Both Mr. I-Beam and Yo-yo girl lost an arm already.

As for the "murder is wrong" thing. Murder is ALWAYS wrong. No exceptions. The death penalty is NOT murder.

You, uhhh just made one. By putting a fancy label on a word. Tell me, what is the difference between murder in revenge, sentencing someone to death through court proceedings, and killing in war? Not much. Someone was alive and had something going for them. Now they're dead, and their story is over. You've killed them.

Fact: the same physical action is employed for all three occasions, war, justice, or murder. There is fundamentally no difference besides the words. "I want you dead" vs "You are guilty, and sentenced to death" vs "It's war, so you have to die because you're the enemy." You can kill someone or you can spare them. But be honest about it.


 It is the taking of a guilty criminal's life as punishment for a specific crime, and all the way back to the code of Hamurabi, rape is an offense that warrants the death penalty. Even the second commandment specifically allows for the death penalty. "He who sheds innocent blood shall be slain by human hands."

No it doesn't. The original 10 commandments do not state this. This is the Mosaic Code. Last I checked, we neither care about women wearing the pants of men, nor kosher diet, nor mixing fibers in clothing. This law is not directly tied to the 10 commandments, and even if it was, this is a rationalization. A person shall be slain by human hands, mebbe. But it never said they must. It is also written "vengeance is mine." Bern very much has a choice in the matter.

The death penalty requires a little something called "due process." That is, bringing forth evidence, witnesses and delivering judgement from a higher power. A man running up and killing someone because he THINKS (or "knows") a guy raped his daughter would be homicide, a lesser form of murder, and could itself be punishable by death.

Self-defense is not murder. Someone breaks into your house, he's not there to deliver a check from Ed Mc Mahon. He's there to steal, KILL, and destroy. You still don't get to chase him down and kill him if he flees, however. Someone comes at you with a weapon, and you fight back, resulting in his death, it's not murder.

Because something is reasonable (and yes you have this right) does not make it the only option. A guy breaks into your house, you can club him until he leaves, or sic dogs on him.

Soldiers killing enemy soldiers on the battlefield is not murder. It's war. And both armies are fighting to survive. Combatants firing rockets into a civilian dwelling, or deliberately targeting unarmed non-combatants IS murder.

Again, you have delusions that there is a dinstinction. Call things by their proper name.

http://blog.independent.org/2013/02/07/now-we-know-war-is-murder/


Extremists running into a civilian establishment seeking to kill as many people as possible is not "holy." It's murder. Even if they try to "justify" it by claiming "provocation" afterwards, by pointing to a set of "laws" that isn't even written down. (The Koran does NOT say "go forth and kill everyone who utters the name mohammad, or dares draw a picture of his likeness," for example.)

Muslims believe that they are at war, and civilians are a threat to their way of life. They will have children who they will teach their way of life. Either realize that war is evil, but something you do in hopes that future generations will benefit, or stop kipping yourself and do not go to war.

As for Bern's options? She's already cut off his arm and left deep gashes in his chest, and he keeps coming! (Not to mention destroying his weapon.)

Also, remember her style is almost exclusively counter attacks. It is very difficult for her to do anything preemptive.

He's also extremely "proud," determined, and believes he has a license to kill, or die trying. Bern's in a really hard place right now, and I don't envy her for a moment.

And for once this entire post, I agree.


If he goes black knight, I'm probably changing the channel. "It's just a flesh wound."

422
Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« on: May 08, 2015, 04:46:25 am »
Bern is actually way more black and white than I am. I'm just incredibly stubborn and stuff I disagree with, I really really hate. Not so much because it's wrong but because it's wrong for me. Which frankly, is all something needs to be to reject it anyway.  The reason Bloody Mary is a monster not because she hurt someone she cared about. It's because of her fighting style. Bern explained this. Humans use weapons. Monsters use teeth and claws. She wasnt calling her a "monster" she was stating a fact, her blade deals with beasts differently.  Because they have different physiology and cutting one up is a bit more okay.

Yes bern is "off balance" (pffft), but she's loads cooler than the knight with the eyepiece. She doesn't tend to make judgement calls on the rest of humanity, her morality seems strictly self centered. As in, aside from wanting exclusive relationship, May could go have orgies, but she sits that out. Which is precisely why she'd get jealous, she doesn't give herself the same rights as she gives others.

In terms of Polly, I don't think she has had time to look around, you know?  Not when some guy is attacking and won't let you have a moments peace to just look around and see stuff. She won't bend and break because this situation is actively encouraging her to do stuff unpleasant, like murder.

Aversion to murder does not have to be a black and white mentality. You could run into people who say murder is wrong "except" if they rape my daughter. But there you go. That's making exceptions. To me, the idea of someone making me into something I'mnot, yea it makes me throw up inside my mouth. And if their intent were to make me into some violent killer, it would not be "rigid" morality to want to stand firm against this crap, it would be something baser like disgust. I'm not sinking to this level, even if they manage to kill me. She has to find a good "disable all" technique that simply takes him out of the battle without letal force. Or just kill his sword and punch him out.

Actually, I wouldn't want to see her cheat, either. But I do want to see her facing her problem of seeing things in absolute black and whites.  Nude art must be something sexual (and therefore bad?!).  Bloody Mary hurt someone I cared about, so she must be a Monster.  I'd have to re-read to see what she thinks of cheating - I kind of remember her saying she knew about Maytag cheating on her but stayed with her anyway, during Suspira's bitchy spell reveal moment - but I still get a sense of Bernadette's character being very righteously judgemental sometimes, in a bad way.  I like that she's committed to being a "good person" by however she defines that standard.  There seem to be too few of those in this comic, of the main characters who seem to give off the vibe of wanting to actively be "good guys" I count Bernadette and Crest.  I thought rejecting her dream of becoming a knight to stay with Maytag was a real step in the direction of character growth, away from those judgemental tendencies.  But I haven't seen that sort of growth re: her attitude towards sexuality.  It's complicated I guess - I want to see Bernadette becoming more open-minded and forgiving, but I don't want to see her lose her core values or suddenly be down with engaging in a threesome or whatever.

I don't see that sort of interesting personal growth happening in this arena arc.  If anything, the whole "I can't bend or break!" declaration while Polly was going to the wall for her over there really annoys me.  As I said before, why wasn't she like that in the cell?  It's almost hypocritical to find her resolve now.  When she was fighting Elvis in that enchanted castle, she was ready to give up and die (and let Maytag and the others die too) because her fighting style didn't work, rather than lower her standards and use other people as meatshields to win.  Here, she's a different person.  All she does is lose a little sleep, shed a few guilty tears and get saved by her dad's magic swords, which was apparently all it took to recover her confidence.  I haven't even got the sense that she's taking into account Polly's human shielding, as if she forgot about all of that now that she has the swords.   Of course this chapter isn't over yet, so hopefully I will be eating my words later on.  But I'm still not a happy camper yet.  :P

You totally need to sing this song (from the Sleepaway Camp series)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vjJjlBduQk

As I see it, Bern has a few perfectly viable nonlethal options. I dunno why this fight is dragging on so long, besides that she's off her game.

  • She can hamstring him. She doesn't need to cut through the legs to do this, just the joints or whatever.
  • She can knock him out with the flat of her sword. Best option, as it means he can viably  challenge other people.
  • She can block and push, knocking him against the wall.
  • She can break his sword, then punch him out.
  • Kick him hard in the balls.
  • She can break his sword and cut his fingers.

All of these will end the battle without making him die afterwards.

Yeah, I appreciate keeping one's ethics. But she needs to stop dragging her feet and end this before he forces her to do something rash.

423
Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« on: May 06, 2015, 05:01:17 am »
Yeah, and the really funny thing is, Bern doesn't appear to have pride, warrior or otherwise.  ;D She just fights to stay alive, and defend others.

So it's kinda a contest between big time A/S rank guy who can't let it go that she's beating him, and small time Bern who just wants to go home and doesn't really care if she wins or loses.

Bern's not a warrior.  She's a knight.  A protector.  Knight doesn't equal warrior.

I said that. In my earlier post (that mods saw fit to collapse rather than simply asking me to change)1.

Bern is a knight, so she's not suited for this life. So yea, she doesn't care about warrior pride. And doesn't need to adapt.

As to the other post, I think he's just making up excuses. Swallow your pride, say "okay, it's not really working" and call it a day.

I think the whole "cheat/don't cheat" thing is an example of the very black and white morality that we are criticizing her for. She should talk to Maytag, and they should face this together. Maybe Maytag is okay with an exclusive deal, maybe it'll break the thing up (tad hypocritical), maybe it would be a reason to reconsider the stance on an open relationship. Their love is still developing and growing, and it might be something they can discuss.

I uh might need to ask copyright permission so that I can print this picture out. And place it by my bed. And uhhhh....

424
Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« on: May 04, 2015, 11:38:22 am »
Yeah, and the really funny thing is, Bern doesn't appear to have pride, warrior or otherwise.  ;D She just fights to stay alive, and defend others.

So it's kinda a contest between big time A/S rank guy who can't let it go that she's beating him, and small time Bern who just wants to go home and doesn't really care if she wins or loses.

425
Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« on: May 04, 2015, 11:27:46 am »
(Fair enough. I don't really want to talk to him anyway, even to apologize)

I would assume people deserve their dreams because I have the experience of doing desperate things to achieve one's dreams. Having tried to do prostitution to make ends meet (ironically enough, it was around the time that Bern got her choices; not a prostitute now, it took one time and I was like "nope"), I know that some people do very extreme stuff to try to make their dreams happen. Theft, murder, whatever. I'm not qualified to judge them.

Also because of Once Upon A Time where the villains are less outright evil, and more pathetic and selfish.

In all likelihood, there is very little chance that these people were paragons of virtue. But we cannot assume anything about them without knowing the full story.

-Old man may have gotten teased on too many times because of his age.
-The girl may have grown up in a brothel, and volunteered for this for money (I'm sure some gladiators are paid, if they don't have any marks left, and want to stay)
-The guy could be disgraced military. Or maybe he caught his wife sleeping with someone, and cut them in half.

We don't think they are saints, but dehumanization is how people manage to easily kill one another. There's many sides to a story.

426
Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« on: May 04, 2015, 04:58:35 am »
(Post removed by moderator.  I said I wanted name calling to stop, which includes justifying it.  Unless you're posting a straight apology, please don't bring it up anymore.)

427
Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« on: May 01, 2015, 03:04:31 pm »
I admire his persistence. However, I wish he'd leave her alone.

Whatever he's been promised or threatened with, I think I'd rather see her help him with it, than put him down like a rabid dog or something.

Everyone deserves their dreams, including him. It is sick that these two have to compete to the death for not even what they want, but what they need.

428
Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« on: May 01, 2015, 05:23:45 am »
Ignore this troll. Supposedly Bern is a leech for having friends.

This unfortunately reflects something I've felt about myself all my life, that because I was scraping by, and needed food stamps, or that because I was close to my family versus being some full-time businessperson, that I was doing something inferior. But you know what? It's time to stop hating people for not  conforming to your narrow idea of success. In this world, there are people who make a living at a job outside their house. There are also people like authors and eBay sellers, that make money at their home. There are also people who make money through sex trade, not just through prostitution but through legal dating for pay sites. There are people like the Travelers (gypsies) who have no fixed home. There are religious groups that go door to door.

There are many realities of life. That Bern is somehow not facing reality because she doesn't sell out to your opinion of life... Of course, she needs to stop playing around and accept that swords can't block magic. Wonderful idea. Maybe you'd like to apologize when she gets burnt to a cinder because she refused to draw her swords because reality is that people compete and magic swords aren't real. Uhhh you're confusing reality show with reality. In a reality show, the winner of a contest wins a truck, and nobody else is considered. In reality, the loser of the contest might use their own methods to get a truck.

Now I'm gonna talk about change and growth. Bern has clearly been developing and growing through this entire battle. But because she hasn't adapted to this fighting you are unhappy. Not all change is desirable. You think it would be awesome to see her go all bloodthirsty but this isn't who she is, and this place is sick. Normal people fight to survive. Crazed people ruthlessly fight even people who are not a threat to them, like a big lawyer coming down hard on some small rural entrepreneur because country people don't deserve to be successful. She is making it work, so you rule it's a "cheat" because she couldn't possibly be successful without doing whatever method you think is the only approved one. Except she did. And she won. Give it a rest already.

In terms of change being bad, we routinely think being at the top of a corporate ladder is the  ideal of success. Is it? We have a small businessman who has work-life balance. He has the girl, he has a steady job, and he has friends and hobbies. There's an offer to go to the city where he would leave all of that behind for more money in the short term (but the job is highly competitive and will probably fire him later) so I assume as part growth and change he should naturally take the job according to you.

Bern is not a vampire or a leech. She is a decent person trying to remain a decent person in a climate that is void of decent people (like a person who believes in justice being surrounded by crooked lawyers).

429
Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« on: April 30, 2015, 03:57:34 am »
Unfortunately, the fact of the matter is, not only is she probably playing into their hands (firm resolve is probably where most of these thugs started) but there is nowhere she can go. What, you think leaving the scene will get them to leave her alone? No, they'd send enforcers after her to get her back. And if raw force failed, they might use trickery. Make her think she's safe but they bring the colosseum to her.

I'm not advocating she suck it up and put up with this. I'm saying she request to be taken off fighting duty. It may take a few more of these, but  ironically prison might be her way out. She is a hard worker, and would rather have done that, except Polly thought this was an easy fix. I don't blame Polly though.

The sad truth is that while she probably has leverage and warden could be challenged the same isn't true of Polly. Hell, Bern could probably even challenge the Warden for her freedom (the warden seems smarter than those chumps and might put up a fight). Actually this is what she should do, forgo prison and simply wager her freedom with the warden to get out of here fast. This would not be escaping but winning fair and square.

Unfortunately, Polly has a number of men and women to satisfy, plus more fighting. She'll have to leave Polly behind, at least temporarily in order to see Maytag.

430
Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« on: April 28, 2015, 04:34:20 am »
Or she's gonna get out by asking the warden if now that she's A Rank to transfer the rest of her marks to prison. Being fugitive means she'd be chased and such. That said she could probably ask the warden to challenge her fpr the rest of her marks, and given both her new popularity and her power he might be pressured to accept. If some of the strongest got beaten like chumps, it may be better for him in the long run. After a few rounds or her doing mostly guarding, he'd probably transfer her anyway if only to not have severed limbs all over the place.

The sword is not a deus ex machina. It isn't invincible and didn't come out of nowhere.  There are clearly defined traits of the sword, making it likely only as strong as her enemies attacks. If she just swings first, it's a normal sword, as we saw in the fight versus the staff guy. And its of no use if people outflank her and she can't block.

Magical items have traits that doesn't mean they are invincible. I have magical stones in a D&D campaign. They are overpowered, but by no means invincible. They give sorta pack tactics and creation once a day. I set them up in the story as shards of a larger stone which controlled reality. It has drawbacks, like  not being able to work if the party member is hit by a psychic attack (this turn) or while the target is affected by rage, insanity, or fear. It also only activates if the party takes advantage of it, because I seldom remember to apply it.

431
Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« on: April 27, 2015, 05:26:54 pm »
Aaand again, as always, Bernadette is rescued by another person.

She does not grow.
She does not adapt.
She does not face reality.

Someone else is again getting the coals from the fire for her (in the latest round it's first Warden who offers the "chance" without Bernadette doing anything to get (not even speaking of "earn" it), then it's Polly who pledges to pay the price for the "chance", now this time her father who shows up with the Deus-Ex-Machina-Sword).

I'm very interested in where this plot arc is going, so far I have no clue. The message so far merely is "Bernadette is carried through everything by other people".

You seem to have a very narrow idea of what reality is, then.  It is not simply your dog eat dog programming, it's all of this. And people can make whatever choices in life they wish.

As for the latter. All of us owes our lives to other people. Bern is honest about it. I mean, did you get that job without the teachers who taught you? You can work as hard as you with, but unless you have people to buy food and clothes from, the only way to not be naked is to sew your own. We can talk about "strength" and "independence" but it's crap. We owe our lives to our parents, we owe our happiness to our friends who support our dreams, we owe our jobs to our employers or clients. If you think you're perfect by yourself, you are kidding yourself.

Bern doesn't need to grow according to your standards. She is growing according to hers.

She doesn't need to adapt according to this place. It's a hellhole, if you get used to it, you're doing it wrong.

And yes, The Person Above Me. It is good to have friends. They make even a crappy place livable. Friends are people you can count on when you're in need, and you know they'll take your call.

432
Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« on: April 26, 2015, 07:28:19 pm »
Oh for pete's sake. What have these guys got to gain from this? If Bern hits them any harder, they're likely to die. Still, they're grabbing her legs, trying to yank the swords out of her hands, and just plain fighting dirty.

What's worse is that while the "death penalty" seems to be lifted for them, there is no guarantee that the same rules apply to Bern. So if she kills them, even accidentally, she will get penalized despite the fact that they just keep overexerting themselves.

They are probably promised freedom. But seriously, what freedom is worth another person's life? Seriously.

The thing is, he could not possibly disarm her. Why? Because of the nature of the swords.

When the swords hit the fist, the other sword glowed. In other words, the sword transfers the energy of the attack through the other sword. As in, a fireball shifts to the other sword. If he tries to disarm her, it's his strength being used. She's not lightening it, he's using his own strength against himself.

She needs to knock these two away, and then put a quick nonlethal end to the battle.

433
Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« on: April 23, 2015, 04:08:42 pm »
Quote
Here is where I yell at *Bern* to remember that she's still in a fight, for Maytag's sake, move yer ass and kick some already.

That's debatable. He's still standing but as far as the crowd is concerned , they're beaten. He's just embarrassing himself against someone who doesn't want to hurt him, and probably could just ball-kick him. I think Bern would prefer it if he conceded, and they both moved on. 

And yes, it looks like it transfers energy into the other sword. When the two swords are crossed, it creates a feedback loop that cancels energy. Given how powerful that sword is, I don't think attacking him directly would be good if she wants to do a no kill principle. It would probably knock him across the room at the very minimum of pressure.

Update since new comic: Yeah... these guys are punks. Bern would prefer them all knocked out and challenging other people, they're stubborn, and won't give up until they hurt her or she seriously hurts them. He managed to bloody her face and that should leave a scab for awhile. She needs like shield effect, that can knock them away without having their blood on her hands. But this might end badly. 

434
Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« on: April 22, 2015, 04:39:20 am »
Oh I've one thing to add. I was watching Berserk, and was struck by the (seemingly unrealistic) pain tolerance. So I looked up about the berserk culture, and found an interesting video on the wiki (tvtropes of course). It was called the myth of on hit kills.

Basically, the body is a funny thing.  Some people can die from minor bullets. Some people can have freaking sword wounds from shoulder to heart and keep going until they win the fight, okay now I can die.  This is basically the effects of adrenaline. My point?

Well two things, she may not have killed them, so they could live on for awhile. Hopefully not coming back to bully her (hey it'd be great if she earned their respect and later they could stand up for her, but I'm not holding my breath), but that means that she wouldn't have the guilt to live with. This was a deathmatch so unless she was handicapped I think they wouldn't penalize her.
The second thing is, in battle you have to keep your guard up.  Big guy could try something cheap at the last second, either to hurt her, or disqualify her.

435
Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« on: April 20, 2015, 11:00:52 am »
Quote
And that would be STUPID, as she's still in jail and has to work off her marks. If she revolts now, all she's going to accomplish is making things worse or getting herself killed. (The guards wouldn't have to restrain her. They could just label her a violent, and extremely dangerous threat and attack her from a distance with crossbows.)

Remember, this arena has been around a long, long time. They have measures in place to deal with riots and armed revolts. The best thing for Bern right now is to clear up her marks, get out of jail and then protest. There's no law against speech in this country.

Given what everyone just witnessed, I don't think that's happening. They may however try to sway public opinion against her, or neglect her (they don't HAVE to feed her).

That said, the public ummmm seems to be on her side. Even if they tried to call her a cheater, or act like a fake win, the audience wouldn't care.

Which brings up an interesting point. I don't know that Bern actually knows what to do with praise.

Everyone has some aspect of themselves that is dark. But for Bern, I think self-hatred is a priority over any hatred of the crowd. As far as the Healer, she was just angry. I think if called on it, she might have been unable to carry out her threat. Not sure though. I don't think I'd like to see her cruel or hateful, but I know what you mean, it's pretty stressful, and she may hurt lots of people without meaning to. Hopefully, she'll be able to live with herself when this is all over.

436
Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« on: April 18, 2015, 05:37:20 am »
Effectively, it's a rebound effect.

There are some things a clever caster can do to make her have trouble. And in a standard swordfight, she would still need to use all of her skill. I run D&D campaigns, and you can say that ability is unbalanced, or you can find a way the characters can counter it. Obviously, head-on magic attacks, is not the way.

Stuff like tying her legs down, yeah that seemed to work.

And yea, after alot of failure, depressive scenes, and other crap, it's nice to see Bern win like this.

437
Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« on: April 17, 2015, 05:11:55 pm »
Why is the old dude not butt naked like everyone else?
If we're doing this, we might as well go all the way and have wrinkly old man nutsack scrape all over the floor.

Thank you for that completely horrifying image. I will have nightmares forever.

Quote
Well this is silly, the swords are doing all the work for her. All she has to do is block.

I suppose you'd still say that if you were in a cage match with three trained killers. Blocking is rather tough to do when you're outnumbered. I'm an amateur blunt weapon (usually staff) user. I know a few quarterstaff moves from watching people, and some sword skills, so I can technically fight "two sworded" with bamboo. I was at a farm and we were goofing off, and I could beat most of the other people fighting with bamboo in single combat, and block effectively. However, as soon as they came at me from two sides, dividing my concentration was pretty difficult, and I routinely got clobbered. This by the way was against kids less than half my age, meaning when it was just one, I could block and counter without hurting them seriously. From two directions, I lost to kids.

There is actually way more skill involved in blocking than attacking. Most people can win at chess by being hyperaggressive, but winning a game of the same where you simply counter all advances, and then "oh, checkmate" yea that's a bit harder.

Also, I think there is a learning curve to these swords. They do in fact operate on repulsion (yay, I was right!) but initially all they did was halt the force of the attack. What she's doing now is effectively pushing the attacks back with her own strength.

In all likelihood, the limit to the swords is her limit. As in, if someone were to use a continuous energy pulse (think force lightning from Star Wars), and keep solid pressure going, Bern might have trouble pushing back the attack. No, the swords aren't absorbing the energy, they are pushing stuff back.

These swords probably couldn't smash a wall. They are a defensive not offensive sword.  The reason these swords smashed, the reason the spells reflected?

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AttackReflector

The sword smashed because its own magically enhanced force rebounded.

The spells turned back because of the same.

Because of this, her enemies rather than being "high-level" (it wouldn't make a difference) either use nonmagical tricks (the extending staff may have been just a retractable staff with a taser attached) or have real weapon skill. It's like Inuyasha's Backlash Wave, it probably has a stronger effect the more powerful magic the attack, so ironicallly "high-level" attacks are precisely what opponents will avoid using.

Also, btw, these weren't unrecognizable effects. Bolo Girl used a razor wind effect, the old guy used a flame sphere.

438
Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« on: April 15, 2015, 06:22:57 pm »
And BOOM that's what we were waiting for.  As for Bern getting no character development, she has had tons.  She's being forced to go against her very nature as a pacifist and kill/maim to save not only herself but her friend.  She's also having to accept magic as a source of her current strength.  This is the perfect kind of development for Bern's character.

I agree for this reason and several others that have been hit upon.  I do, however, NOT think this match with the other two is  'won' already.  Brute force may not work on Bern's invincible blades.. but there are MANY ways around the 'blade'.. the other two should be interesting fights.. as they will also have to 'dig-deep' to fight in new and unorthodox ways.

Classically, the way to counter antimagic is to alter the environment around them. A direct attack can be negated, but heating up the air, or removing the land via earthquake means things get uncomfy for the person, and they might be defeated anyway from stuff just being generally unpleasant.

She just sliced chunks of flesh though.

439
Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« on: April 14, 2015, 06:25:12 am »
Wait, isn't an I-beam this?



http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=2481

That is pretty clearly not an I-beam.

440
Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« on: April 13, 2015, 06:19:21 am »
I also think about now (after he gets up from getting thrown across the room when she pushed forward and sliced his sword), they'll probably switch to a gang-up approach. Him trying to brawl punch her, the others lobbing various types of magic. I assume with her name being Blue Fire she has something more in her bag of tricks than just the rope stuff.

441
Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« on: April 13, 2015, 06:08:13 am »
Linked so I don't have to go back and forth.

http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=2515

Why is the sword splitting like it's made of stone? It sorta reminds me of working backstage in theatre where something is painted to look like wood but is actually foam. (Hint: stone smashes into blocks when cut by something sharp, metal and glass tend to form jagged edges)

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He's A rank because he doesn't have enough control or finesse. He has enough strength and brute force for S-rank, but if he actually wields it, he would kill his opponent.... except now that Bern has the swords of Split Rose.

I suspect he's also A/S rank because he's a brute without a weapon. In all likelihood, holding back means he normally fights sans I-beam. He can probably do the same thing with his bare fists to lesser extent, make a heavy/light punch.  That said, he'd probably have a better chance trying to punch her as himself instead of relying on magic to boost him. But he strikes me as an idiot so I suspect this won't dawn on him.

I suspect at least a panel next comic of complete and utter shock.

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Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« on: April 11, 2015, 07:43:28 am »
I have to admit I'm a little disappointed that Bern appears to have to go through basically no character growth so far. She just sort of gets handed magic weapons that will let her win the fight.

I'm reserving total judgement until I see how this plays out, but I think this particular arc has left a lot to be desired so far.

I remember in college, a guy from my drama class was convinced that if a character wasn't completely different, the writer hadn't done their job. I wasn't sure I agreed. Now I know I don't.

A character can be made one-dimensional (that character is "evil/good", that character is their job title like a guard or smith, that character is pretty/ugly, basically they can be summed up in a single word) or flat, two-dimensional or have personality (basically you choose a list of traits, and the character is basically the sum of their traits), or three-dimensional (they act like a real person you would meet on the street rather than a persona, they have flaws, they have pain, they may have addictions or moments of darkness) and "well-rounded". Now, being one-dimensional isn't always a bad thing provided the character is minor, likewise, a story is said to be really good if minor characters are at least two dimensional. Likewise, unless you are doing a melodrama, the hero of the story should not come across as one-dimensional, as people will accuse you of bad writing.

Among fully fleshed out characters, there are two distinct and equally valuable character types. The static character and the dynamic character.

The static character, despite their name, actually can undergo character development along the course of the series, but they tend not to. That is, a static character has character development as an optional feature. Bern is a static character. A good example of this tye would be Naruto, he spends over half the show talking about how he won't take back his words, that is his ninja way. Character development on his part is extremely subtle, and he simply adds character rather than changing any of his current ways (he still won't do this or that because of his ninja way, but gradually learns to trust his comrades and not try to do everything himself).

The dynamic character, undergoes character development frequently, changing gradually from one person to another. They are not afraid to let go things that aren't working for them, and massively revamp their personality. Maytag is a good example as she started out deadpan, and then became the mask, and is expected to change even more. A good anime example of this  is Luke from Tales of the Abyss, starting out as a nice jerk, becoming just a jerk, realizing the error of his ways, then he finds out he's a clone, then gradually becomes a proper hero.

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I guess it's fair to just assume that beambro is a seasoned veteran and wouldn't do such a rookie mistake just like we just accept that the "split rose" is the "ultimate defense technique" even though it probably doesn't make much sense in a real fight in which lots of sword "clang clang" never really happens.

Do we in fact know this? Maybe he's a person who has gotten by on a heavy weapon and using gravity-self magic. Sort of like if you have wolverine-style healing, and something hits you that can't be healed, you wouldn't normally be good at dodging, because you would be expecting to shrug it off (wolverine, oddly enough being an exception, because despite being night-immortal is also a seasoned fighter). Bern on the other hand, has had plenty of experience in all types of combat, and knows when to get out of the way and when to try to block. She uses a style that requires studying the enemy rather than just slashing people down. It seems to me, that she is the seasoned warrior, he's just a big thug with a big sword. Especially given that his attacks leave openings all over the place, and after being blocked, his first instinct is to just do a big overwhelming downswing. Oh yea, the other stuff worked so well, let's try the same tactic. If he was a seasoned warrior, he would try to disrupt her balance by attacking the ground or something (we know the sword can disrupt direct attacks, but maybe not shock waves or indirect stuff).

I was thinking this as well, but the problem is, that sword isn't a tiny bokken, so any feint would require teamwork with the others.

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Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« on: April 07, 2015, 06:17:42 am »
So... why didn't berns dad just visit her to tell her how to use those incredibly complicated weapons she doesn't know what they do?

If I was in jail for threatening someone and my dad gave me a custom AK to use in the daily deathmatches to get out of there and I have never fired an AK, only pistols and it's a weird, mutant AK that I'm not even sure what it does if I pull the trigger so I can only apply my pistol knowledge in a vague way that may or may not apply, you'd think he'd tell me how to use the custom safety, how to load the thing properly, what not to do with it etc. because it's his weapon, he knows everything about it.
In fact I'd probably not use the darn thing at all in a situation with exactly 0 room to fuck around.
I'd stick with what I know works, even if the weapon is "better" cause it's worthless and dangerous if I don't know exactly how to use it.

Grant seems pretty chill about his daughter fighting those incredibly dangerous dudes with his weapons that she knows nothing of.


Uhhhh, this was answered in the comic itself. She already knows how to use this. Because it's part of the sword style she's mastered and learned all her life. Unlike magical items, this seems to work automatically so it's closer to "here's a bazooka, pull the trigger" to someone already trained in lifting heavy stuff. They just hoist the bazooka, aim and pull it. It looks like aside from blocking she's giving virtually no effort on this.

That said, to win she's gotta find an opening. And at least finish him before the others pull more tricks on her. 2 on one, when the two are effect users, not as hard as 2 effect users, and one physical threat.

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Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« on: April 03, 2015, 08:06:09 am »
Welp, she's doing a good job of blocking.

And a very good job of making him look like a chump.  ;D

Uhhh, guys, weren't you supposed to be ummm "killing her"? Far from that, he hasn't given her a scratch.

That said, as long as she stays doing what she's doing, and isn't cocky, I doubt he could give her one. She's a good swordswoman, and she's got a weapon that can stand up to him, the most he could do is hurt her arm or something with powerful blows. But given that she's now blocking one handed, I'm not sure that's an option.

I think this sword operates based on repulsion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repulsive_force

If someone cast a fire spell, normally, all you could do is counter it. Form a barrier, or using an opposite effect. In the opposite effect, this would be using water or ice against fire (real science says you would need to watch for a steam explosion too). In the case of a barrier. Most barriers operate on a constructed field that enough pressure can break. It doesn't look like this is operating that way, however. In fact, it doesn't look like she is being magically drained, or expending any real effort. She's just blocking, and the sword is pushing the blade back (it doesn't look like it, but the entirety of the force is going pfffft). It's not a force shield, so much as the sword is exhibiting targeted repulsion. If someone cast the above flame spell, a force field would last until heat destroyed it. A heat repulsion sword would simply bounce the heat off.

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Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« on: March 30, 2015, 02:57:46 am »
Huh. That's interesting.

Best I can understand about these swords is that they're magnetic, and they work together by generating a force field by having a mixed positive/negative charge (that is, they are alternating versus all positive or negative on one side, so they create an energy field rather than attraction). This is a visible electromagnetic field rather than the other sword's power.

http://engineering.mit.edu/ask/why-can%E2%80%99t-magnetism-be-used-source-energy

I'm thinking less "power stealing" and more "power draining". He probably can't use the sword again.

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Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« on: March 28, 2015, 06:06:56 am »
I remember there was a law of physics that said that an object (say, a glass of water) was equally broken on the floor and on the edge of the table, that until momentum/gravity/other forces were applied, it would always be between those states.

The swords are antimagic, because they are made from something that is magic in the original sense. If the "magic" here is a type of science, these swords have the power to suspend all of it, by operating on some principal that is beyond science. The other stuff is fake, these swords can somehow dismiss them as such. Since most magic operates under effects that can be produced through science, this effectively protects against everything that the qualia can project; logically, this has a kitchen sink effect against a very wide range of effects.

Let's give an example above. If you sliced this with the sword, the glass, besides whatever wounds the sword produced, there would be no effects of gravity or momentum. It would be on the floor, but it would be whole. It maintains the original cause of how it got from A to B (you knocking it off), but removes all forces applied in the process.

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Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« on: March 27, 2015, 06:04:23 am »
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So.... heh we have an eye opener here...

This seems to mean to me.. IF the source of magic here is the nanites... what they have done..I can only assume physics-wise... the swords are a nano-colony that is dormant until the two swords are used in hand together... the nanites communicate this as the key to do what they are supposed to do.. for the wielder of the swords. 

I personally don't believe the sword is "magic".

I believe Bern's sword works by being a substance which is intrinsically toxic to the Qualia (yes, remember them?) or which when used together, produces a shockwave (think EMP) that kills nearby Qualia. If the former is true, the substance could very well be something way more atomically dense than say steel, but light like aluminum.

Also, kudos for this scene. Given how Mister Lobster has been dragging his feet on narration, I fully expected a Naruto-style flashback of Bern's life without any resolution to this, and have a part 3 showing her block it.  ;D Okay, that would be terrible.

As it is, this short "goodbye everyone" followed by an Oh Crap moment. The expression on their faces is classic.


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Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« on: March 25, 2015, 05:32:57 pm »
Ugh, we've got an issue here.

If it were a side swing, the magic cancellation effect would indeed rip his arm off.

However, a downward swing, if the cancellation hits, I would imagine this would become heavy at exactly the wrong moment. Or... someone help me out here with the physics. Would it pull him off balance?

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Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« on: March 20, 2015, 03:39:04 pm »
Welp, her legs are pinned. She's dead now.  ;D

Okay, I'm trolling a bit. She's got a few things left to try. Tricky old man, though.

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Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« on: March 18, 2015, 09:54:56 pm »
But many things are force in a way that isn't readily apparent.

Violence is force because it forces people to die, or it forces (through threat) people to do as you want. A bar room brawl isn't inherently about force unless it can be proved something coercive about it was intended (i.e. "you take that back", "make me", brawl starts). Rape would technically also qualify (forcing sex).

Stealing might be fine (as long as it is slight of hand, and not armed robbery), because while someone is technically giving you something without their knowledge but you are not consciously attempting to force them to do anything. Taking a loaf of bread, a baker might need to count it as a loss because forcing them to pay would be a crime.  :'(

The statement about the force is interesting. Bern can't dodge anymore if this is true, and she hasn't nerve to fight right now, but maybe another tactic. If she could find the nerve even to block, these swords (if they're all they are cracked up to be) might cancel midswing, doing an Izuru Kira (Bleach) imitation.  That said, we have no idea how these things work. But if she does manage it, it might be interesting to see how things play out in all its gory detail.

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