Messages

361

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 45: discussion

« on: April 26, 2016, 03:59:15 pm »

I wonder what he means. Let's examine that scene around Halcyon and see if we can make sense of it.

Rereading that scene, I saw something completely different.

Halcyon isn't present while Qtalda burns someone to the ground with decay magic

Halcyon asks what should be done. They all seem to be in agreement already, aside from him.

Then they all confer to Qtalda

He already seems blindsided, just from her response. She goes on to explain a lame excuse about how "difficult" this is, how she knew her like a sister or something. It smells like a lie, and it smells like manipulation. But distinctly not like Halcyon was the one pulling the strings. More like, there was some reason Halcyon remained a figurehead, that it was more convincing to have someone with conventional leadership in charge vs someone who had to exert magic to control people. As such, he is very much out of the loop.

362

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 45: discussion

« on: April 25, 2016, 02:05:40 pm »

Yeah, its clear to me she was LYING about not having her body there to explain why she survived.. all bullshit as well.. I'm pretty sure the invisible foot-prints we saw walking away were her/it.

Which brings up the question.. what the hell is she?  clearly her body is not composed of flesh as we know it... so.. what's HER story?!?

She spent years developing a flesh eating creature spell.

Spent years developing.

It's entirely possible that some of those years were spent either transforming her body into a largely intangible one, or learning how to make a solid astral projection that returns to her real body when damaged. After all, if she lost control of the critters, it's pretty much instant gameover for her, so it makes sense if her body is now not flesh-based.

363

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 45: discussion

« on: April 25, 2016, 04:37:48 am »

You know going to the next page... after that scene with the hiding figure... who I thought was Moby.. when I saw it the first time... Qtalda has Suspiria in her cube of force trap.. and Qtalda's words...

Quote: "Humph. Considering your about to die, I suppose you deserve to know the TRUTH..."

THIS is all bullshit.. I'm NOT Buying any stupid what if's about mind control.. Qtalda thought she could get away with it as she would be killing or altering the memories of everyone present so she... like some evil mastermind villain got caught in monologue.. and she SERIOUSLY underestimated Suspiria!

CAUSE on the same page Qtalda admits that...

Quote: "I guess whatever the thin man did to you brought back the memories I erased..."

She reveals she can alter memories.. so this dude.. her puppet mouth-piece .. MAY be as much a victim as Suspiria real parents.. or the imposters who may very well believe Erroneously that Suspiria is their daughter!

Qtalda is a dangerous Bitch.. and needs to be given a permanent Dirt Nap real quick like!

This reminds me. I think there was a quote attributed to a mystery detective:  "Remove the impossible, and whatever remains, no matter how unlikely, must be the truth." Or as Detective Conan says "One Truth Prevails!"

Let's suppose that he is right, it is impossible to control the entire conclave. What does that leave?

An illusion, or the situation as it happened. Illusions work on of two ways, either by altering the minds of those subjects around them or by creating a large scale simulation VR. In the former idea, we have the same exact problem as the control theory, plus we are assuming that Crest is well hidden (oops, this theory just doesn't work). The wide scale VR sim seems likevit would be cost prohibitive in terms of magic, given the wide range and the fact that also shows to to those looking in. Plus it would not be able to manipulate all those people, as that would involve showing them tailor made images to get them to act, and even then? Qtalda still admitted to something.

So which is more possible, a wide scale illusion (the only way this would even work is if the people weren't really there besides Suspiria, and this is sharply contradicted by the use of death spells, one of which is causing her and crest to decay), a wide scale mind control? No, these are impossible given the circumstances. Short of the person behind crest setting it up just for him but this still leaves someone whose power dwarfs suspiria pulling strings. And there is nothing to suggest this isn't qtalda. So why was this necessary?

Remove the impossible, what do we have? The scene Crest saw. Two hired actresses, a very suspicious little girl, who is gaslighted, the Conclave in on it. All of these, so far require no magic, just convincing actors and gullible people. Then we have one scene where moby, regina, crest, and what's his name are shown the parents. At some point, a suggestion spell could have been silent cast. Suggestion is not difficult, compared with mind control, just say something and the words are convincing. This is plausible. The ither thing, is there is a strong suspicion that this guy is also a mole for Qtalda, since he has done little to show otherwise. This even requires one less person to suggest. So we have three stupid kids, that get fed "look here these two random people are the parents." We can narrow the spell effect down to just Crest and Regina if we accept that moby and the other guy are also stooges. Or dupes.  Let's call Moby and. Glasses guy dupes, and this guy a stooge. Qtalda has to resort to very little to fool everyone in that room. That's very possible.

Suspiria never even seemed to be casting a control spell, and would need to disperse it in a radius. Not happening. On the other hand, Qtalda and four others attacking with maybe some sugggestion (but they looked bloodthirsty anyway)? Yeah this is doable.They ask her and suddenly there is a switch from wanting her alive to "let's kill her". Wait, but look over this scene again. It feels odd. She assaulted her schoolmates. This deserves maybe a stern talking to. But there is a logical leap from that to execution, that just isn't there.

364

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 45: discussion

« on: April 22, 2016, 05:04:21 pm »

Brion, who are the rest of the Conclave? I only know Lord Halcyon and Qtalda.

The next scene probably won't work if we don't know who the rest of these guys are.

Okay, relooking, we have Qtalda the mummy man, Bell the receptionist, Lord Halcyon the leader, and these guys.

Since most of them get offed (eliminating them as suspects), and this includes Lord Halcyon (who also was duped), we have just two candidates.

Qtalda (notice when she said that she must be erased, they all decided this was reasonable) and Bell. It's always the secretary! 

Oh my. Look at this scene. There is someone standing behind Crest!

So yes, Crest is right, there was someone else.

365

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 45: discussion

« on: April 19, 2016, 03:11:22 pm »

I'm not sure that's so.

I also post on a Religion & Spirituality forum at City-Data. One of the things they do talk about is burden of proof.

• If theism attempts to convert atheism, the burden of proof is on them (they have made a claim that there is a God)
• If atheism attempts to deconvert theism, the burden of proof is on them (they have made a claim that there is no God)

Bottom line, burden of proof is always on the one that makes a claim or accusation. In law courts, this is the same way.

It seems like that guy (forgot his name) keeps spouting nonsense. But he has very little to back it up.

We have someone who literally saw her admit to that, saw her attack in self-defense, etc. Versus the words of someone who seems like they could be a liar, and another who wasn't there.

We have the words of someone who also could be a liar saying they have known these parents for years.

In an actual court, I believe this evidence would be hearsay, and all you would get (since Thin Man's experiments, as far as the public knows are taken without consent; even though he says they are voluntary and with a reward, he still routinely mind-wipes people) is actually just the charge of assault. Which as far as we can tell, was wholly deserved.

366

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 45: discussion

« on: April 19, 2016, 02:49:12 am »

Something about this dude irritates the hell out of me.

Maybe it's the whole brain fog thing where everyone he talks to seems to get dumber by comparison.

Look "I've known her for years" or "they are public figures" is not really a suitable explanation. By known for years, do you mean regularly attend the shop where she was, without really meeting Suspiria until she was three or five? Did you see her being born?

Suppose this scenario. You see them in town at this restaurant first about 14 years. But Suspiria is 17! Just knowing them that time still leaves a gap. Or maybe they are around town for longer than Suspiria but she introduces the child in the restaurant at a young age after having raised her for a few years in private. Or even simply introducing her as an infant without having seen her born.

Suspiria could easily have been kidnapped and adopted at a young age, and you would have no way of knowing! But Suspiria might if she had childhood memories of trauma. Known her parents for years is not enough. How long have you known her? And how can we be certain we can trust you? You don't need to act like an impostor to be an adopted mother and father. You just omit the fact that a child isn't yours and everything else is real. Lots of families play off the fact that one of the kids isn't theirs. Watch Switched At Birth. It's only really the child in some cases that figures this out and the parents needn't be "impostors".
For that matter because of childhood amnesia you aren't sure of any of the details of your life, including your birthday.

Perhaps this is why he annoys me so much, his arguments are so specious but he acts like they are the  truth that everyone needs to believe. They aren't. And people don't.

But no, nobody else can possibly be right once you employ Occam's Razor. Yes it is more reasonable to assume horses than zebras. But not if you live neara zebra farm.

Uhhhh what?!? Why would this scenario need to play anything more than this: A powerful wizard family won't let her join as a wizard, so she kills the parents like a day after giving birth to her, and asks a sterile couple to pad her stomach for about nine months in exchange for a child. She is nine months older than she should be in and with a simple ruse (possibly augmented by a spell keeping her from growing by putting her in suspended animation) most of the town is fooled. No conspiracy involved, just Qtalda bribing a couple. That's hardly dumb either, and qtalda is that evil.

http://m.wikihow.com/Fake-Pregnancy

Just so you know.

367

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 45: discussion

« on: April 18, 2016, 05:19:56 am »

Yeah this guy is kinda...

Where is it obvious that she's controlling anything? Because it seems like the one with psychic control powers was the one who got you to believe an obvious lie. Suspiria seems like a straight up battle mage.

368

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 45: discussion

« on: April 15, 2016, 04:58:32 am »

God they're dumb. If it was a trick, the very first premise falls apart when you consider that the very people she accuses of being dead are alive. This implies that she knows something is up. They could have been raised. But this seems more like someone who knew there was something weird about her parents.

It seems so obvious, you wonder if everyone in the room with Qtalda didn't encounter a massive Jedi mind trick. "Those are her parents... you will not think about this..." Which brings up a good point. What does mind control look like to those experiencing it? Would it be like Maytag's latest room where you see stuff completely different from other people? Or would you be aware you are being controlled but hostage to you own body (sort of Ella Enchanted).

http://www.bustle.com/articles/113750-3-problems-people-from-toxic-families-often-struggle-with

Suspiria's reaction to Qtalda admitting that was similar to someone who realizes the have been gaslighted (#3).

369

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 45: discussion

« on: April 07, 2016, 04:13:55 am »

D'awwwww! 

All of which leads back to an unfortunate point. Remember Bern's "reward"? Having a deal where you get off for someone else's amusement promises to be extremely awkward. I have a sinking feeling this is next. 

370

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 45: discussion

« on: April 05, 2016, 12:30:56 pm »

Not rape, but not a good reason.

Sex is not about being bold but enjoying the person you're spending time with. That said I'm rooting for the single lady to get some action.

371

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 45: discussion

« on: March 30, 2016, 05:11:09 pm »

This is what I meant. Nude just because, not to try to initiate anything. Consent was asked, and it actually is cool with her if he says no. I'm cool with this one. 

This cannot possibly be an April Fool's strip.

372

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 45: discussion

« on: March 28, 2016, 05:47:26 am »

Yay! Fun times. 

373

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 45: discussion

« on: March 26, 2016, 10:18:17 am »

Of course he does. Crest is a woman. 

I still think my favorite characters are the mains, but this is a nice change of scenery.

I have no idea at this point whether he actually did touch her heart, or she is still trying to work on him, but we'll suspend judgement for now.

Meh, it's okay I guess.

374

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 45: discussion

« on: March 22, 2016, 06:39:07 pm »

A sex restaurant?!? We need more or these.

Always hated nihilism. It tends not to be used by serious thinkers but by angsty teens looking for a copout so they can do whatever they want and not take responsibility. "Not only is there no God or afterlife but nothing matters. So it doesn't matter if I light that police officer on fire." Well, most of them don't get to that last line of reasoning but instead sink into a sort of depressive uselessness where they lay about all day musing about their ideal despite the fact that it flies in the face of evidence. If nothing matters, why are you being kicked out for being a uselessperson who hurts others? If nothing matters, why is it necessary to work to eat? If nothing matters, why then does it matter that people like Crest say no to uour advances? Because these things do matter, and you're making excuses.
About the other stuff, there are people skeptical about religion and that's cool by itself. But here it's used as another way to avoid responsibility. F*** the police because I'm going to die anyway. Only that doesn't add up, because if there is nothing after death, you have more to fear not less, because you are actually hastening the point where you don't exist. To say nothing of the fact that there have been some documented cases of reincarnation (look them up on google) so even if there is no afterlife place, something happens after death. I think I like the FF7 lifestream theory.
Between her assault-like behavior and her complete apathy about other people and this wrinkle, I'm feeling the Rhett Butler thing for Miss Moby here. Don't gove a damn.

To clarify, I do not believe in a set calling. I believe the point of life and having so many choices is because we have a "duty" to find our personal happiness. Someone like Moby has given up without trying.

Hoping Crest can find someone who has a good core to her (Moby in terms of this, is totally empty), is sweet and kind, and cares for him. That still seems to be suspiria, so I don't know why he's hanging around someone who only wants him for sex. Hoping we switch back to Regina (pffft I first typed Serena, been watching too much pokemon XY)

375

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 45: discussion

« on: March 22, 2016, 05:17:00 am »

Well according to womenshealth.gov, it does specifically say that "exhibitionism" is "when someone exposes himself or herself in public," and since they weren't technically in public I would say Moby's situation wouldn't qualify.

Uhhhh, in a restaurant? I'm sure even though the blind are drawn most people have seen Moby make this play, and they're talking loudly.

376

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 45: discussion

« on: March 21, 2016, 06:30:34 am »

Okay sorry, I at one point must've used the word sexual harassment interchangeably with sexual harassment. Sexual harassment usually is used in lawsuits, because it's nebulous.

I meant sexual assault. Assault of any sort is defined as the above, to give the person reasonable fear that the action will take place. Crest is being sexually assaulted.

Does this mean that Moby should be immediately locked up? Well... no. Part of this is determining the person's reaction. Crest didn't want that sort of rapey behavior, but if she kinda tones it down, there's a chance Crest can shrug it off. Assault exists only as long as the fear of the event persists. If she lets it go, it's like he was assaulted but not anymore. As in, if Crest grows to like her, he doesn't need to press charges.

The fact that it is a date doesn't matter (this is why date rape is still rape). In this matter, even being married doesn't matter too much. Typically, most dates don't go this way this soon, and if we look at the "date" in question, it was starting to go south at the point where she started removing her shirt. As in, the implication behind exhibitionism is that you go up to them either just because you like showing off your stuff to random strangers or because you want something. I've looked back at the comic, she talked about how Crest is attractive and while he was still going "Huh?" she starts ripping off clothing. Mood is wrong here. If they had a nice time, and were kissing or stuff, this would be the right time to start removing clothing. Right here, we are all still going "Huh?" because there is no logical jump from casual dating with lukewarm reception to stripping off clothing. If they came to the date nude, if they were already kissing, if Crest asked her to do this, if she asked to do this, even if Crest said he was having a nice time and seemed to want it, the mood would be better than this. This came as a complete non sequitur to audience and Crest alike. He didn't ask for it, didn't want it, didn't even understand why she did it. At this stage of the game, she could have done this, if they were having fun, and both of them were involved such as "hey this restaurant has naked fun time, wanna do this?" The same thing as him suddenly removing her shirt. With no context (even checking for ticks) it comes across as weird and sorta creepy.

The above definition was for physical assault. The definition for sexual assault is just to replace the latter part. If you have reasonable suspicion that you are being molested, this is enough.

377

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 45: discussion

« on: March 20, 2016, 08:12:21 pm »

We'll have to agree to disagree on that as well, because I'm not sure if any of the ones you've bolded actually apply to that situation, legally speaking.  Sexual harassment is generally a workplace term, exhibitionism should only apply to public nudity and not in a behind closed doors situation (the "love restaraunt" they are in has curtains for that purpose), and Moby barely touched Crest and more or less stopped when asked.  Of course I'm not a lawyer so I may be misinterpreting one or more of those.

In my opinion if she had begun to force herself on Crest after the "no no no" moment it would definitely have crossed into the realm of sexual assault.  But in any case, she was certainly pushy and rude, and skirting the line of sexual assault.  Certainly not a way people should behave, no doubt!

It's actually not. It's just sexual harassment tends to happen more there because two people are working together in close proximity. But it can happen as often in a bar. We talk about sexual harassment alot at the workplace because people tend to hand around and overstep boundaries, and because it can be policed there. But sexual harassment can happen on the street, in church, in a train, or at tea.

Exhibition in sexual harassment refers to just this sort of situation actually. We talked about public nudity here earlier. Public nudity is just that, public nudity. On the other hand exhibitionism is stripping naked because you want something. Yes, she is pushy and rude. That's basically the sum of the term. Physical assault is being pushy and rude in a physical way, beating people up or otherwise (there's a list of what that is, too). No arguing here, at some point, Crest was right, and she crossed a line. We could quibble about when that point was, but if it's good enough for Crest, I'll buy assault and even "rapey."

http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/assault-battery-aggravated-assault-33775.html

Assault is sometimes defined as any intentional act that causes another person to fear that she is about to suffer physical harm. This definition recognizes that placing another person in fear of imminent bodily harm is itself an act deserving of punishment, even if the victim of the assault is not physically harmed. This definition also allows police officers to intervene and make an arrest without waiting for the assaulter to actually strike the victim.

Yes, you read that right. Not the act. The causing fear of the act alone is the crime.

Was Crest raped? I'd have a pretty hard case of it. But if you're feeling sexual assaulted, you're usually right. Especially since what she did was already very sketchy.

I have a feeling Glyph is nowhere near going to try anything like this. But this is also about Regina's fears and expectations.

378

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 45: discussion

« on: March 18, 2016, 08:43:14 pm »

Instead of quibbling over what is (or isn't) rape, though, let's just agree that what she did was definitely sexual assault, and leave it at that. Sexual assault is way broader, and what she did definitely qualified.

Types of Sexual Assault

There are many types of sexual assault. Some victims may not even realize that they've experienced sexual assault unless they become educated about the different forms of this violent act. Any type of nonconsensual sexual activity or contact qualifies as sexual assault, including:

    *Rape – both stranger and acquaintance
    *Date rape
    *Attempted rape
    *Inappropriate touching or fondling
    *Incest
    *Child sexual abuse
    *Vaginal, anal, or oral intercourse
    *Exhibitionism
    *Voyeurism
    *Obscene phone calls
    *Sexual harassment

Anyway, moving on. Crest is going to need to determine whether he is cool with Moby or not.

379

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 45: discussion

« on: March 16, 2016, 04:40:46 pm »

Hey guys, a friendly reminder to keep it civil, okay?  Neither of you are loony.

All I can say is that Moby's little awkward "seduction" would probably work on me.  That's just me.  That doesn't make me a bad person, right?

I have a feeling that there's a general difference between how men and women would react to this situation, but that's just in the aggregate.  How an individual reacts is going to be unique to that individual, and that's more important than whether they're a man or a woman.  Crest is definitely a very different guy than me, and that's okay too.

Mmmm. What Crest said is perfectly valid. People are not all the same. Some people go for that.

But those people are evil and should be shunned. 

It's just me, maybe, I find that situation very messed up. Clean, safe, and consensual for me. That said, I'm likely demisexual.

380

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 45: discussion

« on: March 16, 2016, 05:47:02 am »

That wasn't seduction. That was attempted rape. Pure and simple. She didn't try to make him comfortable or play up her sexuality, she tried to outright force him to have sex with her, and then justify it by saying "you're a guy, of course you like it."

Crest is completely in the right here. The one who's being a dick is Moby (no pun intended).

It wasn't seductive to Crest, but from Moby's perspective just flashing some skin has typically been good enough to get it to voluntarily (on both the man's part and hers) happen time and time again. She didn't try to make him comfortable by his standards because she doesn't know him well at all and she never or rarely needed to know anything much about the man in her past experiences...it was enough to appeal with pure sexuality to other men. Anyway, she's unapologetically entitled and Crest had to call her "rapey" to get her to even understand that he was serious about not wanting things to continue, but so far she hasn't actually done anything to force Crest to have sex with her. She simply assumed he wanted to and was just being shy or whatever. It's wrong and shitty, entitled behavior, but it's WAAAAAAAAAAAAAY below actual attempted rape (which could represent forcibly altering the victim's consciousness with drugs or magic without their consent and then trying to make it happen, or just using nonmagical or magical violence to attempt to make it happen; surely these are crazily worse?) so far.

Note that I'm truly not defending Moby's actions as if they were proper here, but this REALLY shouldn't affect Crest ANYWHERE nearly as badly as an ACTUAL attempted rape or more especially a successful rape of him would. I think he could easily be more negatively affected by having to face that the justice he naively assumed would care about him is not remotely blind. Maybe he should ask his mother why she didn't teach him that women are no more wonderful than men. Or maybe she taught him but in the society he grew up in a "slut" would be shamed HEAVILY (if not more), so he didn't consider it a possibility where he is now, where Moby can possibly be much wilder in comparison.

I realize that a man in our society doing the same thing to a woman would practically just be executed on the spot on the woman's word alone, but there's no need to jump in with the feminists and redefine words to the point of practical meaninglessness. Unless you like it both ways, that is (basically no one only likes it the "reverse" way, where only the male gets extreme "defense" and reversing Crest and Moby's sexes would receive a far lighter response to male Moby's actions). I like it neither way because I don't see the point of having to replace words that used to have relatively clear meanings with speeches to get the truth across, since now who knows what anything means...was it newspeak or not? You never know and therefore have to treat it like it quite possibly was! Sadly, newspeak is winning, and people are getting loonier as the signal to noise ratio approaches zero.

This isn't loony. Killing unborn children is loony. Declaring war on people you have never met is loony. Wanting to go one day without being hit on or harassed is perfectly sane.

Newsflash, so to speak. Most rape victims do not speak up. The problem is, there are a few that cry wolf for celebrity status or for money. But this is actually a disservice to the rest of them, meaning they can't speak up or be told "you just want to make trouble".

As for Moby, this is totally off base. Switch the genders like Crest said. Suppose you were at a bar some guy closed the shades, took off his shirt, and expected women to jump his bones. He has a ripped chest but he's not an actor or anything, just some random guy? Most people find it charming? Not really. Most people find it weird, then creepy as when you say no he wants to take off his pants and show his package. Ummmm, yeah I can't imagine this works on ANYONE and the entitled behavior after calling on it is seriously unappealing.

This isn't loony thing. This is real. There are some frivolous rape "victims" but you should at least know when the claim is valid.

381

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 45: discussion

« on: March 15, 2016, 11:08:02 pm »

I wouldn't call that an improvement.

(PC user, can't stand touchscreens)

382

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 45: discussion

« on: March 15, 2016, 06:12:44 am »

I have no idea if this is a "it's the repress-o-matic dark ages so of course this is going on" or a "even in a magical progressive fantasy utopia do those double standards exist" situation.

In my view, both could be true depending on where in Iscariot you are.  Kind of like our world.

Yeah, I know.

Guess I just find it weird that this magical fantasy land just so happens to perfectly mirror this real world issue and how none of the fantasy magic stuff seems to influence it. I mean surely the century-long presence of blasty mc mind control would kind of shake the whole "men strong, men threatening, women weak, protect women" paradigm up a little, would it not? And this is not a low-magic universe, practically everything is enchanted left and right or at least the things we get to see are and since magic doesn't seem to favor either gender, out the window goes that level-of-threat-indicator.

Also magical healing is a thing, d-bags are a thing, magical x-ray glasses are a thing so I assume the consequences of sex, stds, pregnancies, you name it are non-issues in flipside land and can literally be hand-waved away at any stage, no problem.
So how come this inequality still persists in this universe?

To a large extent, because all those things exist. If you can wipe away any sexual encounter with a magical birth control pill, there will be no baby but it doesn't change the reality of being raped. In fact, because rape has no consequences, that guy can go on raping 6 other women (and as Moby points out, it isn't just men). No pregnancy = no accountability.

In many ways, Flipside does present a world where women are more empowered. The only real objection to Bern being a knight (before the whole lesbian deal) was that it hadn't been done before. Same with May being a jester. In terms of magic on the other hand, no prejudice exists at all, a talent wizard or witch is just that, with their gender never brought up.

In other ways, the fact that Flipside has a violent culture means that violence between men and women will exist, not in spite of equality elsewhere, but practically because of it. The more people are able to claim sexual freedom, the more the backward medieval folk will abuse this.

383

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 45: discussion

« on: March 14, 2016, 05:39:20 pm »

Fair enough.

Lucky.

I had a roommate with a girlfriend who was seriously neurotic. And both of them were extremely emotionally unstable. Basically, think bad romantic drama on again-off again with some physical and verbal abuse on both sides. He had a body scar with a painful birth and was hung up on the idea that nobody would love him. Part of what attracted him to her was that she was okay with that.

Then later during one of their abusive periods she said that he was "lucky" he found found someone who loved him despite this scar. Only, later on he found a girl who seemed much happier and healthier, who didn't see it as a problem either. He found some lame excuse not to stick with this one, and went back to the first. There is an important lesson here. Well, two. The first is that abusers try to keep each other down by convincing them that they can't do better. The second is that we gravitate towards either what we want (which is mostly healthy), or what we believe we deserve (which is mostly not healthy).

I seriously doubt they "love" this. More likely they are either too stupid to protest, or too horny to care.  Suspiria is looking better and better. Pass on this one.

9_6, probably both. 

384

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 45: discussion

« on: March 13, 2016, 06:31:16 am »

Yeah let's stick to the no consent + sexual act definition of "rape" and so far, moby has done nothing to disregard crests consent.

Everything after "yeah I can" feels a tad bit ham-fisted and I hope you'll resolve this gracefully.

Okay, Brion, maybe too much.

I'll stick with no consent + sexual act, though... 

If you are getting naked in front of a person and saying "let's have sex" it is only one step or so from actually having sex. It may not be rape, but it is still "attempted rape." In terms of the emotional scars it leaves, it's pretty messed up. 

http://rape.uslegal.com/attempt-to-rape/

Any overt act beyond mere preparation and in furtherance of intent is sufficient and it does not require a last proximate act prior to the consummation of sexual intercourse.

Overt act? Big doublecheck there. Furtherance of intent? Check. Sexual intercourse? Well no, but this much would be enough for Moby to get locked up as a real creeper in US courts. The only thing she didn't do is get frisky with his parts, or rip his clothes off.

The other stuff (unwanted pawing, saying creepy stuff, whatever else I mentioned) is still sexual assault, as it still counts as extremely creepy for someone not interested. Between saying "You're a man, you won't say no", stripping naked, and trying to get him to do something, she may not have raped him, but she certainly disturbed him, and definitely is already assaulting him (Crest is correct).

She's using force. Time to send her to the Colosseum! Oh wait, wrong country.

385

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 45: discussion

« on: March 12, 2016, 01:04:54 pm »

The idea of rape is not the sexual act. That's a mistake people make.

https://www.mnsu.edu/varp/assault/myths.html

Rape is an attitude that you can make someone fall in love with you.

That sounds harmless, right? Say it again.  Rape is an attitude that you can make someone fall in love with you. It's about power, not sex.

She said no to you? Well, she doesn't know what she wants does she? It's okay to assault men, because they don't really have feelings. Et cetera. All of these are just excuses to ignore what the other person wants and do what you want. 

Rape is essentially force, a sort of coercion. The word rape is not about the sex act, it's a shorthand for "I don't want this." This even includes crude pickup lines, pawing at someone, asking for favors, insisting someone "owes" them. All of this is a subset of the same mentality, that you are able to trick or push someone into liking you.

That's not even the real issue here, though. Rape is a poor substitute for love. As in, Moby, instead of having a meaningful long term relationship, wants a cheap fling after which both sides will feel cheap and want nothing to do with each other.

386

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 45: discussion

« on: March 11, 2016, 07:23:21 pm »

Link time!

I've read several articles on rape culture.

https://radfarmerfemme.wordpress.com/2014/11/30/how-romantic-comedies-perpetuate-rape-culture/

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/10/how-rape-culture-victimizes-men/

I guess I've never thought about it before, but men are kind of sucked in to that culture too. If they don't want to be alone, they have to be open/willing/kind of pushy. In other words, they get typecast as "you won't say no because you're a guy." But feminism also is about improving the lot of men, not just making abortions easy. Which by the way...

http://www.feministsforlife.org/can-you-really-be-a-feminist-and-pro-life/

Feminism is, and should be about equality. As long as men are seen as the aggressors, the ones that won't say no, we have a problem on our hands.

http://www.antiserious.com/2014/10/08/because-everybody-needs-feminism/

The gang girl has a name. I think it was Dice. And she's a far better match for Crest.

http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=69

387

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 45: discussion

« on: March 09, 2016, 07:39:59 pm »

"You're a man, you won't say no."

This is a sexist double-standard if I ever heard one.

Crest doesn't need reasons. Anymore than a woman needs reasons. No means no. Too many men are like "Well she said no, but I'm gonna try to convince her..." No. Just no. Crest is a consenting adult, but you need him to explain himself?

It's pretty simple why. Nothing to do with Maytag, he's long passed on to Suspiria. Crest is depressed and needs a REAL friend. Not a "friend" that wants to use him for sex. 

And yes, Crest is probably a hypocrite.

388

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 45: discussion

« on: March 07, 2016, 11:41:01 pm »

#2 was what I meant. And it was semi-dark humor. I have a similar mentality, I'm attracted to women as a whole, but I tend not to flirt a lot. On the other hand, I have had alot of relationships just end, sometimes my fault but alot were because of moves (we, uhhh, moved alot as a kid). I took it personally.
This is semi-dark humor because it represents my own internal outlook of rejection mentality. As in, someone could strip in front of me, and I would immediately suspect "surely she isn't interested in someone like me" then follow it up with "this must be a scam" then simply walk away, leading her to think not interested. When actually I am interested, just one, not in casual just met thing, and two I immediately overthink everything.

I had one or two intimate times in my life, and they were usually followed by an abrupt end of the relationship. As in, I've had my second kiss about 16 or so years after the first, then I got into an argument with said girl a week later, and had about 286 text messages at 3am. Then another girl, we had a power outage, and decided to snuggle together for warmth. We were both mostly clothed. Then the power came back, and we kinda continued to snuggle, but then my arm fell asleep and her butt was alittle close to... anyway, she decided I wasn't comfortable, and I was alittle like wtf, but didn't force the issue, so we made breakfast and went our separate ways. That one's still friends, but it just seems better that way. Anyway, the point is, because of stuff like this, I overthink stuff.

389

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 45: discussion

« on: March 07, 2016, 04:59:23 pm »

Now I'm convinced she's playing him. There's no way that she could be interested in someone like him, right?

390

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 45: discussion

« on: March 03, 2016, 06:26:20 am »

I thought that too.

Perhaps it was okay to blindly hunt Suspiria down with attempt to kill. And now that he's off the reservation, perhaps Moby is there to make sure he doesn't do alot of thinking by himself and decide she's telling the truth. To keep him inactive if he's inactive, and blindly chasing if he's active, but never sitting down and thinking "hold up, why are we siding with Qtalda? That bitch tried to erase her."

For that matter, this story of Moby's sounds kinda like this webcomic.

http://selkiecomic.com/comic/selkie742/

"She's... uhhh just randomly crazy."

Suuuuuure.

In any case, when people were tormenting her after Kin's death, Moby was one of them. That doesn't put her exactly on the best friends list, and he can take this whole story with a grain of salt.