Messages

121

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 51: Discussion

« on: July 23, 2018, 04:41:55 pm »

Hey Brion, we should do a vote.

Like, how many people want this chapter to go totally Grimdark, with everyone dying?

Not that I do, but I think it would get ppl involved and stuff. Too many people expecting Crest to survive cuz he's hero, we need some added tension, right? 

122

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 51: Discussion

« on: July 20, 2018, 12:31:38 pm »

Get lost, jerk. You're just like all the others.

Don't forget the guy who wrote Berserk (Kentaro Miura). Some of that stuff, especially the Apostles kinda this much.

123

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 51: Discussion

« on: July 18, 2018, 11:46:01 am »

Her power isn't off the charts. It's just out of control. Melter implied there were even dissolving tests for such power, meaning there are in fact "charts" for it.

I honestly think there is alot of stuff that is different from what we've been told previously. Like for one, demons do exist (and this creep here is one of them), and two, probably curses aren't actually curses at all but some sort of human mutation to demonic energy.  Eye might in fact be able to control her power. There was another thing I thought about in regards to this. What happens when her powers meet Bern's swords? Do they suck it up? Or does it overcome her?

124

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 51: Discussion

« on: July 13, 2018, 04:12:09 am »

I actually have The Complete ElfQuest Volume 1. I was going to get volume two, etc. But then I realized that it was a self-contained story (the story to find a new Holt, and the realization that their clan, not a location, was the Holt; the story of life, death, and a sort of extended life with those ancient elves; but more importantly, the story of characters, of Skywise, (the human shaman), Cutter, Leetah, and even Rayek, Bearclaw and Treestump, and the depraved Winnowill and Door) plus I was poor.

I like the whole grand story, heavy with metaphor. I think I know what the Pit is, but I'll let Brion tell you (hint: it has something to do with depression). But I also think it might be a subjective metaphor (represents different stuff to different ppl).

If theyare supposed to get together, the anti-magic crystal being gone kinda puts a damper on getting past Eye's aura.

125

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 51: Discussion

« on: July 11, 2018, 08:10:09 pm »

I'm more sad that this is another Crest group chapter, 3rd in a row...
For some reason it got boring for me, seeing Vennice killed off for drama sake didn't help either.

Maybe Brion got bored with May and Bern and Crest became the MC for real?

It's really strange that last time we saw May it was around 1 year of our real life time ago (august 2017), and Bern almost around 2 years ago (september 2016). And this chapter content means that next half year of Flipside updates will be again all about Crest storyline.
Where's the variety of the 3 people stories being separated as it was at the beginning to change perspective?

They're doing it by character development. Bern we had her get through the whole Arena deal, May had to get out of the Dark Cell, Crest has to face the Pit.

All said, I love this page. It kinda reminds me of one of the pages of Elfquest, and there is a very poster-quality feel to the last panel.

126

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 50: Discussion

« on: July 06, 2018, 05:25:46 am »

Well, it doesn't strictly speaking NEED to have an end. Some of the newspaper comics just kept running every week. Or you could go the roue of Cerebus, dragging your comic out literally kicking and screaming.

 Most people don't like downer endings, but neither downer nor happy is really consistent with Flipside. It's kinda film gris, so to speak.

127

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 50: Discussion

« on: June 11, 2018, 06:59:45 am »

Can we expect help from her though? Her heart has hardened.

So to speak.

128

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 50: Discussion

« on: June 11, 2018, 02:34:58 am »

Supposedly in the news, there's been a rash of suicides. I, being highly skeptical, think they were murders made to look that way.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NeverSuicide

It can't be suicide if someone uses a hypnotic voice to make you throw yourself in, after all.

129

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 50: Discussion

« on: June 06, 2018, 05:52:44 am »

Probably second. Psycho chef for Thin Man gives him all kinds of test subjects in exchange for her  getting to play with them when he's done. Sounds kinda pit demon to me.

Demons from the vorpal sea.

Sometimes the high rank sorceror and the researcher are both wrong, and the priestess is right (even though she was wrong that Bloody Mary was one).

Also, I don't like the tar baby look of this. Like this guy might try to suck Melterin to his body.

130

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 50: Discussion

« on: May 30, 2018, 11:56:18 am »

Throwing people into the pit solves everything! 

Didn't he throw Bloody Mary in there repeatedly? Maybe it's some sort of temporal vortex. Otherwise, nah, don't listen to this guy.

Update: So that guy is basically a creative writing teacher, who thinks all OP characters unbalance the story. Listen you, we care about interesting characters. As long as the story moves forward with no writers block, this quaint notion of "story balance" is nonsense. That's what kept high fantasy from really expressing itself for at least a century.

131

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 50: Discussion

« on: May 25, 2018, 04:07:07 am »

Oh good, she's still around.

Time for a haircut though.

132

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 50: Discussion

« on: May 17, 2018, 08:50:09 am »

I really want to hug Susperia right now.  Even if she might undo my existence.

C̪̰̳̘͊ͩ̒̔̔͊ẻ͕͖ͪ̂͋ͣ͆̽ͩa̱͕̝̓ͧͮ̔̿̓̇̾̉s͇̺̱͓̦̿ͥ̈́̄ͤ͌͆̃e̮̹̹ͣ̽ ̣̖̗͇ͣ̚ T̤̫̗͇͂̏̋͋̈ͧ͗ŏ̬̥͇̹̺̻͕̞ͤ̍ͭ  B͇̗̼̥͉̼̺́͂͛̔̒ͭe̘͍̘̮̬ͩ̐͆͛̏̽ͬ̏ 


Zalgo text is fun!

http://www.eeemo.net/

Update: it kinda looks like she's done that to herself. Cheer up, Suspiria! Don't disappear just yet!

133

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 50: Discussion

« on: May 15, 2018, 04:38:47 am »

Oh, I got it, it was just a confusing sentence. Sorta like one of those "You know and I know about X. But do you know that I know that you know..."

 I think both Suspie and Crest are very shy people. She's a bit damaged from being bullied so much and puts up a tough front, and he's kinda messed up because he lost sight of himself. They are actually good for each other but busybodies like Moby want to push how much this seems like a rebound. So what if it is? Mind your own business. Instead, the one thing she thought she felt was real (it may turn out to still be) betrayed her, and Crest lost his last bit of nerve.

134

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 50: Discussion

« on: May 13, 2018, 09:02:21 pm »

As a bit of advice to Crest ~ "Don't believe in the you that believes in someone else, don't even believe in the some one else who believes in you... Believe IN YOURSELF!"

That was totally not super-confusing at all!

Also, Crest is a Shyguy.

135

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 50: Discussion

« on: May 11, 2018, 06:30:57 am »

I dunno. I lust after her. And I really love her.  Sheen isn't something I care about. But the point being, no matter how I feel for her, I love that we can always talk to her. If anything ever happened to that, I would be in hell.

136

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 50: Discussion

« on: May 10, 2018, 04:31:13 am »

Totally feeling this scene. I've got a girl I kn ow.

It's a friendship but there's also some of what TvTropes mentions as a South African word.

Mamihlapinatapai. "A look shared by two people with each wishing that the other will initiate something that both desire but which neither one wants to start. "

And oh yes, I've asked her already. So much so that I feel like pushing too hard might wreck our friendship. Plus she has a boyfriend, and one day I realized that the reason I admire her is that she's a committed person. Committed to her job (while I buckled under pressure), committed to her guy, committed to her principles. Asking her to give those things up, even if she said yes in a heartbeat, I'd hate myself for doing that to her.

So if people are like "tell her how you feel about her!" I'm like, are you guys retarded? I did already. Besides, I don't ONLY lust after her body, I also care about her happiness and our friendship .

137

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 50: Discussion

« on: April 30, 2018, 05:32:36 pm »

True (as in, real, not ideal as the term is usually used) love is actually a mix of selfish and unselfish love. It's messy, it sometimes holds onto the past. It can be very far from what love should be. But it's also  the closest to heaven that most of us get in terms of feelings.

Suspiria (we need to figure out a nickname) does love Crest for Crest. But she probably ALSO missed Kin. And she very much is not in control of her emotions right now, so getting pushed over the edge, not so much.

She needs a Cool Down Hug right now.

138

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 50: Discussion

« on: April 27, 2018, 06:27:07 pm »

That doesn't necessarily follow.

If you like someone, you might try to change them. But if you love them, well...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaA3YZ6QdJU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAfyFTzZDMM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjhCEhWiKXk

Change isn't synonymous with love. In fact, it's very conditional love. But ideally, we would be loved for who we are, not for who someone else was. Or how we should be.
This is not to say such doesn't push us to be our best self. But there are so many damaged people who think they aren't good enough.

139

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 50: Discussion

« on: April 24, 2018, 04:30:15 am »

Unfortunately now it's time to get serious. I think she's right.

Crest is a rebound for Kin, who she hasn't fully been able to grieve.

This is probably not saying that those two don't like each other, or don't have a chance in the long run. She just has to stop thinking of her as an extension of Kin.

On a more serious note, I think I have a similar problem. I project my past relationships onto my current one, thinking Kara is going to behave like Kelly, and so on. They haven't, and this is how I know this one's a keeper (unfortunately she's taken, so we're just friends).

Okay, enough seriousness. Do one for Suspiria and Crest. I was thinking Katie Perry (constant hair changes, and watching the music video Wide Awake) for Suspiria and for Crest... I can't realy get a bead of him because yeah half of his story got overshadowed by someone else. Maybe Rick Moranis in LSoH.

Dude, I put Rick Moranis's voice in Chapter 1 lines for Crest and started cracking up.

140

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 50: Discussion

« on: April 22, 2018, 09:52:31 pm »

This is why I say Emily Blunt and not say... Catherine Hepburn.

A voice which is soft and feminine but yet somehow rugged.

I actually think Mariah Carey, honestly, is a better sample of May though. Sorta sexy, something of a diva, sometimes deadpan (calmly saying "I will hunt you down" in this song), and a little strange (unicorns).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9b8erWuBA44

Especially feel this video on the Crest date.

141

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 50: Discussion

« on: April 22, 2018, 04:48:56 am »

I can imagine Bern having a kinda deep voice, sounding kinda tomboy. Kinda like Emily Blunt.

Maytag I can imagine her with a more versatile voice, something kinda like one of those girls that puts on a much higher voice on the phone, and kinda more sexy when they are playing it that way, and deadpan when they've stopped acting. Kinda Lady Gaga (puh puh pokerface) or something.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8lz7obvHTo

142

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 50: Discussion

« on: April 16, 2018, 04:07:40 pm »

Open to debate.

Crest and Suspiria had about one or two hangout scenes before her change. They were kinda just friends though.

Suspiria does kind of like Crest, but there's also a healthy dose of Replacement Goldfish.

http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=1171
http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=1235

Crest on the other hand... didn't appear to be under a love spell. Most of his behavior was fairly normal (kinda a shy next-door neighbor romance), except for his drive to train. I couldn't figure out where that came from.

http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=1145

(I don't see anyone under a charm spell getting this argumentative)

http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=1241


Moby, it felt like she was acting out Suspiria's feelings, it was really super-obvious that something was wrong. Crest? Not as much, anyway.

143

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 50: Discussion

« on: April 05, 2018, 02:49:37 pm »

I won't confirm or deny anything, but I just have to say something about Occam's Razor.  it only makes sense to use it for real world problems.  I see people use it all the time to analyze fiction, and it makes no sense to use it that way.  Fiction does not comform to the "simplest explanation is usually the best" rule, not at all!  Fiction is often contrived, complex, convoluted.  In fact, even when it's trying to hide it's contrivances, it's always at least a little contrived.  Writers certainly don't choose plots on the basis of "the simplest answers," they choose whatever seems interesting or exciting.

If anything you'd be better off using Opposite Occam's Razor for fiction.  "The most complicated answer is usually correct."  That's probably true more of the time!

I would call it Tolkien's Dagger. "Whatever answer is most in line with what the author wants, complicated or not, is usually what will happen." So named for the fact that Tolkien's work was almost certain to exactly include whatever he planned, in his case mostly being an excessive amount of history and linguistic information, Norse myth with Christian overtones, and stealth humor (Bag End represented a cul de sac in England filled with old people).

Which effectively also means Dan Shive's work will feature a huge amount of transformations and esp gender stuff , while Tom Siddons will have creepy imagery and high level philosophy  , and Brion Foulke will tend to keep you guessing with false leads.     

Perhaps...that's the key to her sanity as Crest 'seems' to be the one person unaffected by her reality warping?  Because... Suspiria loves him...

Indirectly unaffected.

Moby is basically acting as a proxy for Suspiria's feelings. She's one horny gal.

144

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 50: Discussion

« on: March 30, 2018, 02:38:06 pm »

Comments in blue

BUT case in point here... Melter's 'claims' don't have to have ANY conclusive evidence cause his proof is 'oh your rewriting reality subconsciously so facts and memories are not going to prove anything... just trust what I'm saying is true.

WHY should Suspiria believe him at all?  He has brought no hard evidence to support his claims and if he was interested in convincing her she is mistaken.. why did he not just bring her living parents there to speak to her?  IF he knows her parents are alive and he wants to convince her that she has rewritten the conclave's memories why didn't he do that in the first place?

Sure he does. A theory that is true had a viable explanation for everything. A lie? Well, it's like Columbo says. A lie is like a puzzle, where the puzzle pieces don't match up. Reason for hair extensions? Check. Reason why the town and its inhabitants are strange? Check. Reason for a sudden spike in power? Check.

Plus, Suspiria is all "that's not true, that's impossible" on this. She'll have to search her feelings cuz she knows it to be true.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pw2sex1mJNI


AGAIN.. why is it so complicated that SHE, Suspiria, is the one making the Conclave ALL of them behave like scheming evil murderers and NOT the conclave leader as well ~ by "altering their memories unconsciously"... if memories CAN be altered that way...

Occam's Razor ~ Is it STILL not simpler that Qtalda ~ who has motivation, and power to do so has CONSCIOUSLY altered everyone's memories to serve her own purpose to conceal HER murder of Suspiria's parents?

I keep telling people. Occam's Razor is not unassailable. "If you hear hoofbeats, expect horses, not zebras." But what if you live in an area where zebras are common? What if there is reason why things are different from the most reasonable result?

As far as Qtalda's concerned, she is still an evil bitch. But this doesn't obstruct the real issue. Suspiria's power being out of control

If I were Suspiria I'd then say bring forth these people who claim to be my parents and let me question them... if memories can be altered and people EVEN brought back to life by magic... let me question them and see for myself if they actually are my parents or if that is simply what they've been mind altered to believe!

Honestly.. this ALL seems like the writer trying to write himself out of a plot hole... not a serious criticism it happens.. but the drama of Suspiria taking on the entire Conclave and winning was a real high point in the story as far as I'm concerned.. and I'm not so willing to "let it go in favor of a new direction"... without good solid storytelling to justify it.  THIS just all seems too Deus Ex-Machina...to me.

Actually, the whole deal isn't Deus ex Machina, because we had clear setup to this. She was OP and steadily growing in power, they actually showed all of this stuff.

Suspiria resenting Qtalda for kidnapping her from her family
Hatred of the Conclave
Lack of emotional control
Melter literally mentions the Seed of Potential well before she kills the Conclave
CS3 confirms that there is another side of the world, with apparently differences in magic

145

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 50: Discussion

« on: March 28, 2018, 11:32:47 am »

Known liar???

He uhhh normally doesn't speak that much at all.

He's a known thug (basically killing everyone in a room to get to May), but I can't remember him outright lying, like ever.

He's an artificial human, but this doesnt seem to translate into dishonesty.

146

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 50: Discussion

« on: March 28, 2018, 03:30:17 am »

Occam's Razor is that magic does exist, until proven otherwise.

1. Lehm's power is not the truth, it is simply a magical device for recording truth. The distinction is there, given that which great power comes great insanity.
2. Eye seems unconvinced of the existence of Qualia, as does CS3.
3. In fact, the only conclusive link to Qualia would be with Qtalda's microorganisms that eat human flesh, and she doesn't seem to know either.

Given this, it is possible the brush just spit out a random theory. Maybe not probable, but possible.

It's like this. If we could wave a magical paintbrush and know the truth, all would be great, but reality doesn't work that way. In fact, there is an entire branch of knowledge known as methodology, that figures out "how do we KNOW what we know?" Sadly, this system has fallen into disrepair, as evidenced by religion and philosophy webforums.

Further, we do know that fourth level has to do with mastering one's emotions, and Lehm as a 3rd level truth specialist also would have gotten in there without breaking any seals. Meaning his concept of the truth could very well be influenced by his emotions.

I'm not gonna talk about Melter yet. I gotta head to work soon.

147

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 50: Discussion

« on: March 26, 2018, 09:41:57 pm »

If her head 'no pun intended', has not been messed with by Lehm 'Thin-man' and Company... then there is no reason not to suspect that the events that Crest witnessed did not proceed as we saw in the comic.  HE WAS there when the Enclave ADMITTED to siding with Qtalda in killing her parents to gain control of her.  If I recall correctly, they even threatened to 'take care of' Crest for witnessing it all as they effectively told the Enclave leader he was a mere puppet-head and they had been doing things on Qtalda's orders for some time

I think Kamui is correct. She's not controlling this. It's more like... she hates Qtalda so Qtalda becomes the villain. This does not mean Qtalda is blameless, he could very well STILL be a manipulative asshole, but Qtalda didnt kill her parents. Or did, but part of reality warping involves temporal reversion (an alt revive effect). She remembers her parents killed  but then these strangers that looked like them came along and she figures they arent real when actually they died and she reverted them.

Here's the weird part though. She's saying he's a liar. The temptation is to think he is lying about her powers, but that part actually makes sense. What I think she thinks he's lying about is the timeline. The "fake" parents probably showed up before Danzig so she reasons this is the issue with this story. It isn't though. Reality warping as I said includes temporal reversion. So... what if later Suspiria gained control of her power, and realizing she headed down a dark path without her parents around, decided to bring them back to give herself a different path. Would it look like she got altered before then? Yes. But actually, it's her trying to do herself a favor that she doesnt yet underrstand.

Sunphoenix, that's easy. Because if he is being truthful, he knows that to make her see sense requires someone who cares for her and vice versa making it plausible.

148

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 50: Discussion

« on: March 14, 2018, 10:12:49 pm »

Lemme guess... she kinda would have failed all of them if she didn't push through somehow.

Her temper flareups especially vs the Conclave and old classmates.

The fact that these spikes have appeared is probably a good indicator her sense of self is not in control.

And the reality distortions... and probably her doing. As is her inability to distinguish whether her parents are alive or dead.

I don't think she needs to take a de facto dissolving test, so much as understand what each test represents. When she does this, her power is back under rein. Until she manages it, she might have backfires (wanting to create ice, and getting fire) or unconscious magic happening around her.

149

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 50: Discussion

« on: March 13, 2018, 06:33:54 pm »

Let's put it this way.

Western area is normally capped at level 3 due to some limitation in how they use magic. Seed of power normally at 4.

They sorta talked about Potency, and how even two level 3 wizards aren't necessarily as good as each other.

http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=537

Look at Noventia. While she was Level 3, Suspiria's Potency was almost double hers (likewise Regina to Moss, and Dice to Noventia), so Level 3 to 4 is not just an incremental, but potentially exponential increase in power. 

150

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 50: Discussion

« on: March 13, 2018, 04:03:09 am »

Or.. considering what we know of the world's "true" nature of magic... those spurs are nano-reserve/production factories that either construct and/or store more Qualia than any normal person would have access to.  But you are right Suspiria, may very well be a Level 6 Sorcerer!

I hope Crest gets to kiss her before she vanishes again... she needs some one to tell her she is NOT a monster!

I, at least, think she's beautiful... strange and out of the ordinary... but no less in need of OR deserving of love.

Called it! High five! 

And I think so too.

 I also think this is part of the current issue right now with all the weirdness going down. Bloody Mary is responsible for some stuff, but it's kinda like... someone with enough power lying around that they can unconsciously control the weather, only they are so moody that instead of the day being normal and sunny, it goes from sun the day before, to damp weather to a sudden freak snowstorm.

I think what Melter is getting at is there is alot of power to her, but as she is used to being lower level, the sudden bloom of her power means much of it is ambient reality warping energy that isnt really well-controlled. So in some ways, until she gets herself calmed down, alot of what she does is probasbly passively bdangerous for those she loves.