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Messages - sunphoenix

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Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 36: Discussion
« on: April 26, 2013, 01:17:33 pm »
It's so tempting to explain in more detail what is going on in these scenes, but I really shouldn't say anything, should I?

Probably not... regrettably.

Though there could be some explanation if Melter did something to her... but I really have a hard time sticking up for the Thin Man with the scenes of her being hung about like so much meat on a hook her body mutilated and her being taken by Melter... most assuredly not by her consent!

Melter knew things that if he had not made her the way she is he could not possibly know, unless the Thin Man told him so... all the more reason I think this Thin Man is dangerously arbitrary and abusive of his obvious considerable talents. 

PEOPLE are not sketches to be 'tried out' and then discarded when one has "figured out" what they really want to do!

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 36: Discussion
« on: April 26, 2013, 12:52:55 pm »
Note that I used seemingly and not certainly, but based on this page, Blood Lust looks like it was added to make sure she keeps herself alive. Also remember Mary says outright her body moves automatically when the pain and hunger becomes too much.

AH...!   :'(  Thank you for the reminder...!  It has been a while.. I STAND corrected!

THAT is Fucked up!   >:( Yeah... this Thin Man is if not intentionally sinister is at the very least callously twisted and unconcerned about his subjects.  I hope Maytag remembers this information given to her by Mary!

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 36: Discussion
« on: April 26, 2013, 12:01:15 pm »
Even if cannibalism being the source of her regenerative powers was an unintended side effect, programming her with blood lust was seemingly done after the fact and without her knowing.

Do we KNOW that or is that an assumption?

Mary didn't kill her parents because she choose to. She killed them because she was giving an ability that would cause murderous insanity when starved, and then got sent home starved.

Again do we KNOW this or is this conjecture?  Was this stated as the reason and by whom?  Mary?  Who arguably is in a ...Very Questionable mental state in the first place.

I'm not saying your wrong only that I don't recall anyone really giving any explanation for why Mary was the way she was with any definitive proof or evidence other than conjecture that she was the failed experiment of the Thin Man.  No one has stated or explained {at least as far as I can recall... correct me if there has been}... WHY Mary went all "eat everyone to power my regenerative powers" ... we don't even know {if I recall} if that is the truth - that she even needed to eat people to power her regeneration.  She may have only THOUGHT she needed to eat sentient beings to power her regeneration.. how sad it would be if she was just demented and delusional!

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 36: Discussion
« on: April 26, 2013, 11:56:14 am »
Well... we know that he is telling the truth, as far as he knows at least, because otherwise May would be able to tell he was lying. But I still think it's a little impossible that he's actually a good guy, just giving out power for the benefit of the helpless people, just misunderstood by the world.
At the very least, no one is that altruistic. And no one is that purely good. (At least not in this comic)

Oh I doubt too that its entirely altruistic.. but we don't actually have any proof that it is sinister purpose either.  I'm sure he gets the satisfaction of the knowlegde of what works and what doesn't work so he can further refine his magic and magical lore.

I think the weirdness is that we've seen two experiments, gone very differently.
Clairen, who was happy with the outcome, remembered asking for it, and in general is good evidence for what the Thin Man is saying now.
And Mary, who remembers nothing, and seems to have been forced to become a monster. She is evidence of the 'madman experimenter' story that the Phalanx/Conclave have been telling.

There's evidence for both, but both can't be true.

True.  But Doctor Frankenstein by Marry Shelly was a Brilliant Genius not understood for his interests in reviving the once live now dead and in his mania to do that he created his 'Adam'  but his failings as a father and creator were his personal failings not that he dared to try!  We do not know WHAT Mary was 'forced' to do or what she decided to do on her own.. at least I don't think we do. 

You have an emotional breakdown and see how clear your memories and recollections of what you did and why you did it were when you were in the middle throes of your episode of lost sanity.  Just something to consider ... she may have recovered from whatever happened and figured with self-guilt ridden shame she had no choice but to stay the monster she had become...

We just don't really know.

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 36: Discussion
« on: April 26, 2013, 08:22:02 am »
Whao.. hold on there a little ...'Earth's Mightiest Mortal'! :)

3. No one has said 'when' a subject fails if they can possibly know about that until they are ...out in the world and make choices of what to do with their powers.  It could be just as true that Mary worked for a time but something happened or she found out what she wanted was not what she NEEDED... and became despondent and that is what turned her in her grief into what she became the "gift" might not have done anything to her that she did not expect... but it still might not have brought her the happiness she sought.  Oft times what people think is best for them and what they think the need are only wants and not truly ... necessarily what they ACTUALLY need!

Also, his bargain is to give them power... he did not say, "you can only use it in a way I Deem appropriate..", no one would accept power on those terms as they would effectively be agreeing to be his slave.  Thin Man has to let them do as they will with it.  It IS THEIR choice to use... or sadly ABUSE what he gives them.  He could say otherwise and no one would accept power under those terms. 

He IS in a 'hands-off' sort of way being true to the morality of the situation.

Ultimately PEOPLE are responsible for their OWN actions... to think or do otherwise is a cop-out... to avoid the responsibility or deny the consequences of one's deeds.

4. Just exactly what do you mean by this?  The Thin man told Mary exactly what he was going to do to her and what it would do for her {as far as he knew perhaps}... and that he had determined though magic that this would be the best way to fulfill her ...'wants'.  Her Aberrant behavior after the process is not necessarily his fault or even the result of what he did to her.  He has also shown the same things to Maytag so she knows he uses magic to find suitable subjects. 

Though I'm sure May will get around to asking just what he wants to do to her... but I think the more important question is WHY he desires to 'augment' people in the first place?  Pure research or does he have some actual goal in mind?

5. And your point being what?  That when you are looking for someone say to... try a new prosthetic limb design on, you don't search for a suitable subject first?  That is just an example.. but my point being he is not trying to universally use a magical augmentation on someone not 'suitable' to the enhancement... that would be irresponsible and cruel.  But the Thin Man has never claimed to know all... and surely with the power that he can apparently bestow... some people do not adjust to it well!  Sort of like the sometimes referenced "Cyber-Psychosis" from the Cyberpunk Genre... but in this case its from too much magic altering ones body and mind so one has difficulty relating and perhaps even interacting with those not similarly augmented... loosing one's humanity.. and effectively their mind with it!

6. Certainly in fact his showing her this implies he did so.. he's not trying to hide this fact at all.  He's just not come out and said so yet... as May has not asked.

7.  Well - in fact they are.  but likely even the Thin Man cannot know the unintentional side effects of a experiment.  He may know what it is supposed to do.. just not ALL that it will do to a subject. least  THAT is how I see it.  but I have no monopoly on wisdom.. lol! :)

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 36: Discussion
« on: April 25, 2013, 06:04:33 am »
Well a girl's gotta eat!  She just wasn't picky about if it were previously sentient or currently dead...

But I'd still do 'em - both Maytag and Mary.. the perfect tag team! LOL!

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 36: Discussion
« on: April 12, 2013, 06:16:22 am »
Oh great... a hall Rorschach tests.. that would drive me insane...

Unless they are paper thin slices of Mary's brain left on display...!  On second thought.. I'd go for the Rorschach gallery... {pick your poisons... and insanities wisely!}

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 36: Discussion
« on: April 11, 2013, 05:25:34 am »
Uhm... "Shudder"...  This could get messy.

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 36: Discussion
« on: April 10, 2013, 02:43:22 pm »
Yeah... haha... that's Maytag... I don't think she could put anymore sarcasm into that " you do NOTHING to trick people...", comment!  lol.

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 36: Discussion
« on: April 04, 2013, 05:56:10 am »
I think perhaps he wanted to know exactly how good May was, as he said, he expected her to work out, just not quite so quickly.

Yeah I think so too.  Perhaps he just truly underestimated her.  I mean its one thing to hear about someone... consider she is not a mage or a kick-ass knight word of mouth says she's a gambler and a entertainer.  But reputation says she has been pivotal in the defeat of some pretty powerful foes.. but no one was present to actually "See" those defeats... at least not a large crowd to actually witness her skills.  So its just as likely 'Thin Man' was not entirely sure how 'actually' capable she was and how much was inevitable hype and hearsay!

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 36: Discussion
« on: April 02, 2013, 07:08:24 am »
the answer to these situations is always more nudity So you think May is a screamer or a sweater? :)

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 36: Discussion
« on: April 01, 2013, 08:48:06 am »
LOLS! Ok.. yeah... that got me..duh! hahahaha! Good one! :)

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 36: Discussion
« on: March 29, 2013, 11:02:15 am »
Yep don't bother lying.. just skip ahead of this amateurish "Foreplay" to get right down to the serious life-shattering - mind, body and soul rape...

Hmm.. I think the 'Thin Man' may like her style.  Hopefully he won't hurt her too much.

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 36: Discussion
« on: March 26, 2013, 11:28:36 am »
I really hope we eventually get to a point in the story where it's not just "Maytag is the most amazingest person in the entire world ever and can out-talk any situation with any person in the whole wide world because she's so smart and cool and savvy and amazing".

Hahaha! I wouldn't call her ALL that! lol!  Maytag has some serious interpersonal trust and commitment issues! lol!

She's not the girl you take home to mom! hahaha!  Being ultra-suspicious and savy in manipulating people for your own ends might be a useful skill but its certainly not a socially well-adjusted way to approach your personal relationships!  I'd far from call that healthy! :)

Fun to be around as Maytag may be {you're always wondering what she will say and do next...} its hard to really feel she is dependable and not working another 'angle' every time you're around her!

In general... people don't like being manipulated or treated like they need to be 'handled' with every interaction... it be-speaks a lack of trust in their friendship and honesty or actual concern for their own well-being for their own well-being beyond what you can get out of them at the moment!

Well this is how Maytag interacts with EVERYONE on principle... that's not healthy, and people come to resent it... see her recent failing with Crest!

I like Maytag as a dramatic character... but she's got more issues than a half-price comic book store! lol!

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 36: Discussion
« on: March 25, 2013, 04:16:56 pm »
looks like the jig's up

somebody needs to tone down the hamming  ;)

but really, just eat already, the food's getting cold

(if any of them had done their homework, they would know that they could just talk to her without having to bs)

Yeha they obviously don't know her very well.  Maytag is very good at this sort of 'bait and switch' stuff... it would not work on her.  They could have gotten a lot further with her by just speaking plainly. 

Now for some this might be a real stopping point in the negotiation, but this is Maytag here... she will likely not be put off by their "dishonesty" in trying to 'play' her... as she is familiar with 'dishonest' interaction with people - this IS her stock and trade as it were.  But she will want some straight answers... she is not the trusting sort so unless they are going to go to a more...persuasive or violent from of coercion... just asking her is the best option.  Though it would have been the best option in the first place... {as that would have spoken volumes to their honest motivations}.  May's too savy to be taken in by a "BS sob story"... and their amateurish play at 'handling' her is only wasting her time from her goals ...which will annoy her... not a good foot to get on with Maytag.  Now, she will be doubly suspicious {she's normally suspicious of people's motives in the first place - after all}.. they may have a slightly tougher time convincing her to agree to whatever it is they want her to agree to.

LOL! I'd sure never play poker with her...well at least not the card game... unless it were for toothpicks.. just so I cold spend time drooling over how pretty and super cool she is! :)

I think Maytag would be a neat friend to have.. and a terrible enemy to make.

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 36: Discussion
« on: March 21, 2013, 06:12:30 pm »
That last panel of page 14, is that where Maytag gets tired of the good cop/bad cop routine they've arranged to make her side with the Thin Man? Because those eyes do not look amused.

Yeah.  That's what I'm getting too...  I think she's about to call them out of this little game and demand they BOTH get to the point!  She's not fooled...
We're all familiar with that look in her eyes... she's not acting "normal" anymore.. her 'Real' personality is assessing this entire setup...

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 36: Discussion
« on: March 21, 2013, 05:40:41 am »
I doubt Maytag would wish for anything though, precisely because she understands herself. She's said before how awful she is. Rotten to the core. I get the feeling she would view herself as the worst sort of person to get the Thin Man Treatment.

I agree... unless she might consider him...'fixing' her?  Which I hope she is not pondering that.  Maytag is VERY self-aware... and I like her just the way she is!  :)

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 36: Discussion
« on: March 13, 2013, 07:20:23 am »
Sometimes I forget how awesome Maytag is.

Wow.  Maytag is soooo cute!  Blondes can ALWAYS get over on me.. darnit! :)

But on to the subject of the Thin Man... I think he does EXACTLY what his compatriots say he does!

I'm sure that he gives his subjects EXACTLY what THEY ask for... but there is a catch to that.  What people want is not always in their best interests!

I'm ALSO sure that Maytag would agree that people are general VERY good at fooling themselves in to thinking all sorts of stuff about themselves that is patiently NOT TRUE!

Humans are very good are self-delusion and Magic as is presented in this universe is many times HARSHLY TRUE!  What you think you are and what you REALLY are colors  your magic or the magic that is used upon you.

So the thin man may only be doing what his subjects ask of him to do.. but in truth they can some times be VERY UGLY within their own hearts... their own hidden flaws that they don't wish to face or admit to.. and it ... grounds out in the TRUTH that magic reveals.

Maytag would be the first to agree I'd bet that people can be VERY UGLY inside even though they may personally think they are paragons of virtue!  With hidden or displaced anger fears, hatreds, preconceptions, avarice and the myriad of other personal flaws that we all dislike or worse do not see in ourselves!

May tag seems.. at least to me VERY adept as seeing herself and those around her for what they are.. as she knows the deception that she plays everyday... and accepts those limitations in her own heart. 

I think if the thin man does something for Maytag.. she will be one of the successful ones... because of her understanding of her true nature and the effects on those about her.  She truly has a good heart... at least I think so.

...sorry didn't mean to wax all philosophical there..

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 35: Discussion
« on: December 22, 2012, 05:30:16 am »
Well, the point I was trying to make is that their philosophy isn't wrong because it's different. It's wrong because it ignores reality. In that regard, it is pretty clear-cut. Suffice it to say, it's harder to sympathize with members of The Benefactor's Flat Earth Society than it is to understand them. In fact, they're all essentially economic zealots with The Benefactor as their dark messiah. And that's before the baseless (but not disproven) assumption that he's also the big bad who happens to dabble in nightmare fuel and horrific human experimentation. There'd be no better place to do it than in Marvallo, where the government isn't just above the law, it is the law.

Either way, Marvallo's upper class neighborhoods are clearly a den of white collar scum, villainy and extortion, so much so that it's impossible to condense my earlier two attempts at typing up a reply because they degenerated into rants. That I can't figure out how to succinctly point out everything wrong with the Marvallon philosophy, blaming grant for where his life wound up or the recent portrayal of Trollem and Maytag as the trolls that they aren't makes me lament that my face can't hold all these palms.

So far, the only likeable Marvallon is still good guy Grant Everyman (whom we're supposed to hate for being a lonely alcoholic?), who did everything right only to have his life coincidentally spiral downward into suck after (but not necessarily because) he was denied custody of the girl he thought was his daughter (sniffle). That she reappears only after he's already doomed himself via substance abuse just drives those feels home. It's also kind of funny how, after 6 chapters, the only redeeming character in Marvallo is still the suicidal alcoholic who's about to die.  I'm still not sure whether this arc's meant to troll objective readers, or if it's just a stealth attempt at black comedy.

...This was insightful, and well articulated. I agree.  Though... Polly isn't so bad... I kinda feel sorry for her too.  Though... I suspect there is something ... if not 'sinister' at least unexpected about her absence...

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 35: Discussion
« on: December 19, 2012, 03:16:22 pm »
I love the hypocrisy in this chapter.

Having the average conservative old guy talking about freedom and personal responsibility on one hand, and on the other they're essentially coerced into paying protection money/dues to the enforcers under the implied threat of having no oppressive state goons there to ensure their continued ability to make money. Government by the rich, for the rich, beholden to the rich, and those who have no money to pay the enforcers have neither the protection needed to make money nor the money to buy said protection. Thus, the system of perpetual poverty for all but the noble owning class and their government cohorts eventually became known as capitalism. And lo and behold, some in Americ-I mean Marvallo even began to think that it was such a grand system of economics, that they would be just fine without the Enforcers there in the first place. Talk about biting the hand that feeds you, after the Enforcers worked so hard to set them up as a second, completely unaccountable branch of the ruling class.

Oh, wait, that hasn't happened yet in the comic. Yeah, it's probably too early to talk about chapter 60.

Still, I did enjoy Bern resorting to violence, state Enforcers be damned. Hopefully she'll watch out for "Magic Drone" strikes or being indefinitely detained. If not, she might have to be imprisoned by Enforcer's while the old guy lectures her about how he does everything himself and doesn't rely on anyone else for anything. All within earshot of the Enforcers that came to his aid. Truly, it would be a fate worse than Kin's. :D

Hey just who are you poking at here?  Is that a troll I hear...?

Brion Foulke NEVER said or claimed that the Marvallo system... such as it is not; was perfect, ideal or even desirable!  He is not as far as I can see needling anyone's society or making a statement of philosophy about the real world or the morals or lack thereof of a 'Pure' {if such a thing actually exists... I can't see any modern government that fits that description} Capitalist society.

He has merely presented a divergant society with really unique and strange values as a story plot... nothing more.

So you can take you America-bashing and spew it elsewhere... thank you.  Our country is FAR from perfect.. but is no more egregious than any other nation devised by man's philosophy or reasoning!  There is no utopia... it exists as a concept in our hearts a goal to strive for.  Perhaps... someday... god-willing, we will achieve it.

Lets get back on topic... 'Isn't Bern cute when she's angry!' :)

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 35: Discussion
« on: December 08, 2012, 05:34:59 am »
Hahaha!  "I don't like grant", "I wish this arc was over... Grant's a lost cause...", Blah blah blh... :) {Not criticism... all in point}!

Look, this Arc is NOT 'about Grant'... it ABOUT Bern!  About what her limits are, about her personal honor, about her devotion and love... in all its parts!

This Arc is more about what SHE is willing to do, what is important to her and what she is willing to risk.. and abandon to follow her heart! 

I think its GREAT!

...And OF COURSE... Bern is Deadly Sexy when she's kicking Ass... too bad she's not into boys!  She'd be a hot little number to cuddle with and caress that distinctive scar tenderly on her face after some passionate love-making! :)

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 34: Discussion
« on: October 06, 2012, 09:40:07 am »
Hehe! :)

Still sexy, '..with fingernails that Shine like JUSTICE, a voice that's DARK like Tinted-glass, and eyes that BURN like Cigarettes!!"

Yep! Suspiria is all 'Magical Girl' now! :)

...maybe even into ravishing cute boys who play hard to get... hmmm?  ;)

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 34: Discussion
« on: October 04, 2012, 11:31:49 am »
I don't know about you guys... but... I'd still do her!  She's... Still sexy! :)

I dunno.  Those horns look like they could hurt.  But if I was a few years younger, yeah, probably.

Hey lust is spiced with a little bit of risk... she'll just have to be a little gentle with Crest... if that is THIS is all that transforms.  The thin man is a world class psycho I would not put it past him that his 'gift' had a severe catch.  I'm sad about that... I really wanted Crest and Suspiria to hit it off.

I knew the 'thin man' did something vile to her and have been waiting all this time for the 'other shoe to drop'.

I hope she does not die... and for the record she may look a little strange but she is NOT hideous!

I really hope Crest tells her so!

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 34: Discussion
« on: October 01, 2012, 09:47:19 pm »
I don't know about you guys... but... I'd still do her!  She's... Still sexy! :)

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