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Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 45: discussion
« on: January 23, 2016, 09:26:44 pm »
The flashback to the note from 403 was to show how Crest would recognize Maytags handwriting in the note that says she is fine .
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Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 45: discussion
« on: January 21, 2016, 06:02:08 am »Just been catching up on the last few, what does Maytag's note in 2761 read?
"I'll do whatever it takes to make her happy [something] gold [something] promise!"
It's from this page of the comic
http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=403
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Flipside Discussion / Re: Maytag's (Completely Inconsistant) Personality
« on: August 19, 2015, 04:52:23 pm »
I don't see how I implied anywhere in that post that Maytag was a psychopath. Like I said I don't like getting into diagnosing characters, partly because I feel labels like “psychopath” or “sociopath” are too easily attached to characters/people that have any social anxieties or communication problems outside the norm.
I think that the main thing that makes May hard to figure out is that she seems to give in to her emotions, while also seeming to have the ability to literally control them. May broke down when it seemed like Bernadette was going die to Mary's poison, but earlier in the story May was willing to kill Bern, because logic dictated that it was better to kill her herself rather then for Bern to be tortured and killed. She can decide that getting eaten alive wasn't going bother her anymore, but a friend being upset with her is something she can carry for a while. I mean Maytag's control over her emotion has allowed to breakout of the control of a demon that caused paralyzing fear and an aphrodisiac that caused overwhelming lust. I don't think May is every devoid of emotion, she can just control it on a level that no one else can and let logic dictate her decisions at a given moment. Of course there is also the issue that Maytag's logic set probably differs from most.
I think that the main thing that makes May hard to figure out is that she seems to give in to her emotions, while also seeming to have the ability to literally control them. May broke down when it seemed like Bernadette was going die to Mary's poison, but earlier in the story May was willing to kill Bern, because logic dictated that it was better to kill her herself rather then for Bern to be tortured and killed. She can decide that getting eaten alive wasn't going bother her anymore, but a friend being upset with her is something she can carry for a while. I mean Maytag's control over her emotion has allowed to breakout of the control of a demon that caused paralyzing fear and an aphrodisiac that caused overwhelming lust. I don't think May is every devoid of emotion, she can just control it on a level that no one else can and let logic dictate her decisions at a given moment. Of course there is also the issue that Maytag's logic set probably differs from most.
For most of it, I guess I'll just have to say that my feelings very strongly align with Crest's and leave it at that.Well part of the reason that Crest started to travel with Maytag and Bern was because he thought they would eventually split up and that he would be there to "pick up the pieces" with May, so it's not like he has been entirely forth coming in their relationship.
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Flipside Discussion / Re: Maytag's (Completely Inconsistant) Personality
« on: August 15, 2015, 10:09:15 am »
I started this post last night and was going wait to fix it up a bit, but it is pretty much is a lot of what Brion posted so I'll just post it now, even thoguh it is a bit of a mess.
I personally don't like getting into diagnosing characters so I'll just talk about what I disagree with as far as the narrative is concerned.
Moss saw Maytag's promiscuity as a weakness at a time where he didn't have the context of it relating to Bern, so he assumed it was the promiscuity itself and not that it related to infidelity. Also remember that at the time Maytag believed that her and Bernadette relationship was inevitably going to fail, because she was struggling with desperately wanting to stay together with Bern and also staying true to herself. I would say that at the time that probably did feel like the biggest weakness for Maytag.
We know Bernadette knows about the personality thing because of this page: http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=1459
It was basically the first thing May told her: http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=412
Not to mention that the way Bern describes May back then includes almost all of personality traits May is talking about currently: http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=415
The story went over the cheating thing. The reason Bern was hurt, but not too angry over it because she accepted from the start that a relationship with May would likely include being cheated on at least for a period of time. She was able to brace herself for it to an extent and she was willing to justify it for May using ?just a phase? reasoning.
I personally don't like getting into diagnosing characters so I'll just talk about what I disagree with as far as the narrative is concerned.
Moss saw Maytag's promiscuity as a weakness at a time where he didn't have the context of it relating to Bern, so he assumed it was the promiscuity itself and not that it related to infidelity. Also remember that at the time Maytag believed that her and Bernadette relationship was inevitably going to fail, because she was struggling with desperately wanting to stay together with Bern and also staying true to herself. I would say that at the time that probably did feel like the biggest weakness for Maytag.
We know Bernadette knows about the personality thing because of this page: http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=1459
It was basically the first thing May told her: http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=412
Not to mention that the way Bern describes May back then includes almost all of personality traits May is talking about currently: http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=415
The story went over the cheating thing. The reason Bern was hurt, but not too angry over it because she accepted from the start that a relationship with May would likely include being cheated on at least for a period of time. She was able to brace herself for it to an extent and she was willing to justify it for May using ?just a phase? reasoning.
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Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« on: December 12, 2014, 02:59:53 am »
Bern has had a couple of moments were she engaged in unnecessary violence(knocking out Seraph after he killed Clairen and was walking away and smacking Suspiria after she used that truth spell). While you can make arguments for both those moments being reasonable and/or justifiable, neither comes off as things a pacifist would do. Also the bar for pacifism is high in a comic that has a character who advocates for a girl who ate her arm and befriends a guy who once tortured her.
I wonder what Polly's plan is now, maybe going for S rank? Don't think the Warden would go for Polly using her marks to pay off Bern's or letting her do one of those options in Bern's benefit. Maybe she figures she'll have a better chance to free Bern from outside the Coliseum. I can see her convincing the warden into giving her a chance for an S rank match by arguing Bern was holding her back.
I wonder what Polly's plan is now, maybe going for S rank? Don't think the Warden would go for Polly using her marks to pay off Bern's or letting her do one of those options in Bern's benefit. Maybe she figures she'll have a better chance to free Bern from outside the Coliseum. I can see her convincing the warden into giving her a chance for an S rank match by arguing Bern was holding her back.
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Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« on: December 11, 2014, 07:54:35 am »
The Warden may lose some fingers thinking Bern is too much of a pacifist. She may dislike violence, but she never seems to take it completely off the table. I think it may be the guilt of using violence to save her dad that is causing Bern to be more passive then usual, but it is kind of a stretch to say she is a pacifist.
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Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« on: December 10, 2014, 09:14:03 am »
I seriously doubt that option A will just be about sex and that it could be a bigger trap then B. If the Warden had phrased it as being a sex worker for multiple people in one night that would be one thing, but saying Bern would be a sex slave to a group could have other implications.
We saw in an earlier chapters that sex workers were not in short supply in Marvallo and that criminals had no rights there. Someone who would want a sex slave specifically from the coliseum would most likely do it for the purposes of finding a loophole to Marvallos no violence rule, so her physical safety and ability to fight can still be endangered with that choice.
I'm sure they'll lay out what exactly the implications of A before she decides whether or not to go with it.
On another note Polly desperately wants to protect Bern, but it looks like a small bit of frustration with Berns hesitation is starting to creep in.
We saw in an earlier chapters that sex workers were not in short supply in Marvallo and that criminals had no rights there. Someone who would want a sex slave specifically from the coliseum would most likely do it for the purposes of finding a loophole to Marvallos no violence rule, so her physical safety and ability to fight can still be endangered with that choice.
I'm sure they'll lay out what exactly the implications of A before she decides whether or not to go with it.
On another note Polly desperately wants to protect Bern, but it looks like a small bit of frustration with Berns hesitation is starting to creep in.
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Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« on: December 05, 2014, 11:38:27 am »
Polly's C gambit makes some sense, if it works like she thinks, since most people would only choose the lashings expecting to survive. Convincing Bern of that will probably be a big challenge for her. ( Will Bern be able to complete it should she choose C would be the next big question.)
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Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« on: December 03, 2014, 04:02:20 pm »
I just have a hard time buying her choosing option C. I imagine that the person they'll choose for her to kill would be Polly (which she would never do) and even if it isn't I can't see how Bern is convinced to torture and kill someone in cold blood, unless Polly is seeing some loophole there.
I guess the story could be heading towards A, which would be the least interesting to me story wise, but, eh, I guess we will find out soon enough.
I guess the story could be heading towards A, which would be the least interesting to me story wise, but, eh, I guess we will find out soon enough.
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Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« on: December 03, 2014, 10:47:59 am »
I guess good on Polly for getting clarification about the type of A rank match Bern would be getting into, but at the end of the day it probably doesn't change the choice much. It is still be her best chance to getting out as soon as possible.
I also lost sight of the title of this chapter, while Bern would be a weaker fighter to start with one eye, she'd have a stronger weapon that is suited for combating magic and maybe other enchanted weapons. The way the Warden phrased it she'll only give Bern those swords if its used in A rank matches.
I also lost sight of the title of this chapter, while Bern would be a weaker fighter to start with one eye, she'd have a stronger weapon that is suited for combating magic and maybe other enchanted weapons. The way the Warden phrased it she'll only give Bern those swords if its used in A rank matches.
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Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« on: November 26, 2014, 01:07:09 pm »
I agree that B is the less interesting option, but I disagree that the other two options would do more for her character growth. The other choices go so much against her character that it wouldn't really come off as character growth and more turning her into something she isn't.
I think Bern's current arc is building to making her more assertive and aggressive while staying true to her character. I think the moral conflict will come once she starts engaging in fights and finding out how far she will engage in that violence the closer she gets to freedom.
As a side note some interesting things that can come from B (at least in the immediate):
*She'll have tougher opponents to help her rank up faster, but she'll be a worst fighter to start off.
*In line with the above she may be forced to reevaluate and change her fighting style.
*Going back to chapter 10 doing something like cutting her eye out herself, she considered impossible, her resolving to do so could lead to a character defining moment.
*It is possible that Bern would refuse to replace her eye. Like her scar she may keep it as a reminder of something or maybe because of her Knightly beliefs. (Orransong also has a missing eye)
I think Bern's current arc is building to making her more assertive and aggressive while staying true to her character. I think the moral conflict will come once she starts engaging in fights and finding out how far she will engage in that violence the closer she gets to freedom.
As a side note some interesting things that can come from B (at least in the immediate):
*She'll have tougher opponents to help her rank up faster, but she'll be a worst fighter to start off.
*In line with the above she may be forced to reevaluate and change her fighting style.
*Going back to chapter 10 doing something like cutting her eye out herself, she considered impossible, her resolving to do so could lead to a character defining moment.
*It is possible that Bern would refuse to replace her eye. Like her scar she may keep it as a reminder of something or maybe because of her Knightly beliefs. (Orransong also has a missing eye)
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Hall of Games / Re: The Alphabet Game
« on: November 26, 2014, 06:32:49 am »
Q is for Quest, something the main characters occasionally take on.
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Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« on: November 26, 2014, 06:27:57 am »
Unless she rejects those choices out right, option B seems the most likely for Bern to choose.
Option C: She would probably reject outright because killing someone in cold blood is the one that goes most against her moral code, let alone throwing in torture. C probably won't factor in at all.
Option A: I just can't see Bern choosing to be a sex slave and a victim to other peoples whims. Maybe if there was more immediate pressure and the stakes were higher, but yeah I just can't see her choosing that.
Option B: This option is the only one where the only victim and perpetrator is Bern. It fits in with Bern's willingness to self sacrifice, while not violating her morals. Also it seems like a moment like this was coming since Chapter 10 where Bern wondered if she would be able "mutilate" herself for the sake of May, throw in Polly's fate being tied to Bern's and I think we have the most likely option here.
Option C: She would probably reject outright because killing someone in cold blood is the one that goes most against her moral code, let alone throwing in torture. C probably won't factor in at all.
Option A: I just can't see Bern choosing to be a sex slave and a victim to other peoples whims. Maybe if there was more immediate pressure and the stakes were higher, but yeah I just can't see her choosing that.
Option B: This option is the only one where the only victim and perpetrator is Bern. It fits in with Bern's willingness to self sacrifice, while not violating her morals. Also it seems like a moment like this was coming since Chapter 10 where Bern wondered if she would be able "mutilate" herself for the sake of May, throw in Polly's fate being tied to Bern's and I think we have the most likely option here.
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Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
« on: April 25, 2014, 07:50:24 pm »
I wonder what the most terrified Maytag has been in the story? The two times Bernadette looked like she might die were the first things to come to mind. Non-Bern related moments, the only thing I can think of is when Moss was torturing her in Book 0.
I'm pretty sure that is Mary's superhero catch phrase.
I am having thoughts about taking the pane with Bloody Mary eating May's arm and replacing the munching with "nom nom nom"
I'm pretty sure that is Mary's superhero catch phrase.
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Hall of Games / Re: The Alphabet Game
« on: April 18, 2014, 04:43:11 am »
Way to go with an easy... *looks at my first post in this topic*.... never mind.
N is for Noventia, A sorceress who was whipping her hair back and forth before Suspiria made it cool.
N is for Noventia, A sorceress who was whipping her hair back and forth before Suspiria made it cool.
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Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
« on: April 18, 2014, 04:37:18 am »
I find it kind of funny that Dark Cell was a literal dark cell. Seems like it has the same effect on people that Mary's fear demon does.
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Hall of Games / Re: The Alphabet Game
« on: March 24, 2014, 05:40:11 pm »
L is for Lucient, ex-boyfriend of Regina, who could sometimes be a jerk.
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Hall of Games / Re: The Alphabet Game
« on: March 24, 2014, 11:14:51 am »
J is for Jester, Maytags current profession.
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Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
« on: March 24, 2014, 11:12:53 am »
I wouldn't be shocked if someone called The Benefactor was sponsoring morally questionable research.
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Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
« on: March 02, 2014, 08:28:35 pm »
I wouldn't underestimate Lehm here. I don't think he really expected her to agree to stay for two weeks. Right now he just needs Maytag to agree to hear him out and any shorter amount of time he suggests, after throwing two weeks out there, will seem more reasonable. I think he knows he is at a disadvantage right now and that pushing too hard would get her to shut off completely. Considering some the experiments he got people to agree too, I would suspect he is on equal footing with May in manipulating negotiations to his advantage. It'll be interesting to see how both of them play this out.
On a side note, I wonder if those magic swords will play some role in Lehm's plans. Grant described them as being made with an old sorcery, so maybe they predate the nanomachine magic.
On a side note, I wonder if those magic swords will play some role in Lehm's plans. Grant described them as being made with an old sorcery, so maybe they predate the nanomachine magic.
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Hall of Games / Re: The Alphabet Game
« on: March 02, 2014, 07:44:52 pm »
At the very least we can end up with a decent list of people, places, and etc for reference.
H is for Hellmouth, a poker player in Solstice who tried to cut Crest's eyes out for cheating.
H is for Hellmouth, a poker player in Solstice who tried to cut Crest's eyes out for cheating.
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Hall of Games / Re: The Alphabet Game
« on: February 16, 2014, 08:19:15 pm »
F is for Fata Morgana, A sorceress who creates illusions and is currently traveling with Moss.
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Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 39: Discussion
« on: February 16, 2014, 08:13:15 pm »In the story's timeline, I think everything that's happened so far has taken place within a few months - while the story's largely been continuous, we have had a few time jumps, for example we're told Bern's ~600 mile journey South took about a month, and was covered in a single page.
I just meant the time passed since Bern and Maytag were last together, when they first met Grant. May was kidnapped the same day and Bern was arrested a few days after. Hard to tell how long both have been captured. I'm just thinking about the time passed because it seems like one possible setup is that all the protagonist will spend some time apart from each other.
I can barely remember how Dark Cell was described earlier, just that May was a good candidate to enter it, so seeing her "emotionless" state on the cover makes me wonder if this chapter will focus more on explaining why she can possibly enter Dark Cell or her time actually in it.
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Hall of Games / Re: The Alphabet Game
« on: February 14, 2014, 03:43:35 am »
D is for Dirk (Umbers Husband)
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Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 39: Discussion
« on: February 14, 2014, 03:37:57 am »
The title of chapter 40 is "The Dark Cell" so it is probably moving back to May.
I just realized it has almost been two years real time since May and Bern last interacted, but I'm not sure how much time has passed in the comic since then.
I just realized it has almost been two years real time since May and Bern last interacted, but I'm not sure how much time has passed in the comic since then.
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Hall of Games / Re: The Alphabet Game
« on: February 05, 2014, 11:51:03 am »
B is for Bernadette
This is book 0 if you want to read it.
http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic/book0/comic.html
This is book 0 if you want to read it.
http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic/book0/comic.html
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Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 39: Discussion
« on: February 05, 2014, 11:46:12 am »
Even if Bern does get a S rank she will still have to fight A rank fights, to stay teamed up with Polly, according to the rules we know so far.
It will be interesting to see how Bern and Polly combine their fighting styles when they face opponents who force them to coordinate. I wouldn't be surprised if most fighters were magic weapon users which would put Bern at a disadvantage.
I wonder what role Grant will play in all this? Maybe he'll try to recover the sword he sold to repay Bern.
It will be interesting to see how Bern and Polly combine their fighting styles when they face opponents who force them to coordinate. I wouldn't be surprised if most fighters were magic weapon users which would put Bern at a disadvantage.
I wonder what role Grant will play in all this? Maybe he'll try to recover the sword he sold to repay Bern.
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Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 39: Discussion
« on: January 27, 2014, 11:53:30 am »Hmmm... well if you mean by 'threatened' force he... pointed the sword at her and she grabbed it, but not while it was in motion. Not sure if that makes a difference to your points though?My original point was that Bern would be willing to make the first move in a fight if stakes are high and she has no other options, I was using the confrontation at the healers as an example. I'm willing to agree to disagree on that example.
Polly already said that sorcery isn't allowed, but magic weapons are. If the sorcerer/sorceress doesn't have an enchanted weapon or know how to enchant a weapon, they're going to have a tough time.I wasn't really being clear when I typed that, it was her wording that got me thinking about it, the use of "isn't exactly allowed." She was probably referring to magic weapons when she said it, but I first read it as limited sorcery being allowed.
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Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 39: Discussion
« on: January 22, 2014, 03:26:18 pm »
As I recall, the man pulled his arm back and swung the sword at Bern's head. She caught his arm and tripped him to take the sword away. At that point, Bern was more than qualified to demand compensation.
As for today's strip, the moral is, don't assume untested opponents are weak, and definitely don't mock them. You will regret it if you're lucky.
That part definitely didn't happen, the sword wasn't moving at all when she grabbed it.
Here are the pages for reference
flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=1717
flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=1719
I wonder how the Colosseum deals with a sorcerer/sorceress. Would they be allowed to use a weapon and sorcery or would they have to have to choose between one or the other?
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Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 39: Discussion
« on: January 20, 2014, 10:58:27 am »Actually, the "bodyguards" both drew steel and swung first. Sure they had the right to "escort" or forcefully remove Bern from the shop, but they did NOT have the right to employ lethal force.
We read that sequence differently then. They definitely were the ones to bring the swords out, but I wouldn't say they swung first. The first guy pointed his sword at Bern (I don't think this counts as employing lethal force) and told her to leave, but her grabbing the sword and kicking him is the start of the physical altercation. The second guy, who was about to pick up Grant, swung at the same time as Bern.
LOL. Polly's the "Bowler"...I understood that reference.
...needs more skulls though.
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