Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.

Messages - Shazam

Pages: [1] 2
Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« on: March 27, 2015, 02:53:32 pm »
I happily have the two sides of looking at things. Her swords are magic,  so they do magic stuff to momentum.

The other side equates the magic on the ideal to a flight spell. It is accelerated through the air by the will of the wielder faster than mere muscle. I wouldn't expect Bern's swords cancelling flight magic to suddenly leave the flyer on the ground as if the magic never set them flying in the first place,  I'd expect them to suddenly tumble from the air at the speed they were going when the magic was cancelled.

All this really means to me is that Bern's swords are more than just magic cancelling.  After all,  just holding up the mass of that ibeam would be hard for Bern's physical strength even if it had been unmoving. So the swords are mighty enchantments with more subtlety than merely being magic cancelling.

Or I'll chalk it up to suspension of disbelief even if she should have been smashed by the rapidly traveling 500lb club. :)

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« on: March 26, 2015, 12:50:23 pm »
This is assuming that the momentum created by the magic can be interrupted as well. Those two little dinky pieces of metal shouldn't be able to stop a ton of steel even if they disrupt the magic that initially created the momentum.

True, the momentum and energy associated with it is already in the system. That said, I feel like I've created a monster by bringing up the actual physics in my original post about weight vs mass :P

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« on: March 25, 2015, 05:22:19 pm »
Shifting mass without changing the makeup or distribution of matter in the weapon seems a bit too convenient to me. Have you considered that perhaps the warden's use of terms is loose/doesn't match non-fictional modern scientists' use of terms? Anyway, another method would be to simply have the nanobots that are the source of "magic" in Flipside's world be compensating for all the missing force wherever it is needed to create the effect. So if he's lifting the (non I-) beam up it lifts with him to "reduce weight" from the wielder's perspective. This can be applied to any movement based on mass and/or gravity/inertia. For the target struck the nanobots don't have to reduce anything, and just let the beam hit normally.
Yep, that was my theory as well. Nobody knows the nanobots are there, so they just describe the apparent effect of the spell, rather than its root cause... sort of like gravity in real life :P

Hopefully Bernadette will get her act together and actually start fighting rather than needing rescued. Chop that hand off and fling it at True Strike :D

Truthfully, there are all sorts of ways the magic could work via nanobots. I'm fine with any of it. It's magic, or a technology advanced enough to be indistinguishable. My only original nitpick is that it wasn't changing the 'weight', which is just a matter of lifting, not changing lateral momentum. :) Only terminology, not magic.

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« on: March 24, 2015, 10:59:03 am »
Not a criticism Shazam.. but don't you mean it the other way around?  Weight is based upon the gravitic pull of the largest body acting on it.  But the Mass never changes... that's a constant; and my point.  "Magic" might be able to make the weapon feel weightless.. but it still retains its mass.. hence why getting hit with it would be fatally painful... for the few second one was still alive after such a devastating impact.

The magic does not really make the weapon inertialess... or it would have absolutely NO impact no matter how fast you swung it on contact.. its 'inertia-less'.  So the magic is twisting gravity fields in some way to make it 'seem' weightless but retain its mass. 

My point is if Bern's swords negate that magic~ when he swinging the I-Beam... at that speed the inertia of the mass of the I-Beam is WAAY HIGH.. and his tightly gripping hand will feel all that tidal effect of the inertia he has imparted to it with his swing!  Momentum is a bitch.. it will likely rip his fingers off if not pulverize every bone in his hands, as the grip violently flies out of his hands from the momentum of the swing... flesh & bone have their shear force limits... like everything else made of matter.

I pick up a bullet and throw it at you and it bounces off your shirt... no biggie, it's not very heavy at all.  Now I do it again.. but this time I add several thousands of meters of velocity on it and it blows a hole through your chest and the brick wall behind you!  It didn't get heavier.. but its inertia made the impact Much more devastating.  Now do that same with the I-Beam.  Its already damned heavy... so getting hit with it will... hurt {to say the least}.  But, try holding onto it with it moving several hundred feet per second while your standing still...  Good-bye hand!  'nuff said.

Nope. :)

Sorry for the delay in replying.

Weight is solely your angular momentum based on a force (in this case gravity) being applied to a mass.  Ie, gravity as a force measures the pull and thus acceleration on an object towards the source of the gravity.

I'd been pondering how to simplify things via text (before I forgot about this thread). Reducing an item's weight, simply means you are reducing how much force you need to lift it vertically. That's all. You are simply addressing it's relatively momentum downward. It has no other meaning of effect. It doesn't allow you to increase your acceleration of an object for a given net force. That would require changing the mass.

To give another mind experiment. If you have ever seen the challenges of someone pulling a large mass, perhaps a car, or a sled with weights on it, they are having to strain against two elements, the first is the inertia of the object (ie, it is at rest) and in addition whatever friction is inherent in the system... is in wheels, flat against the ground, etc. The most difficult stage is the beginning and starting to get the mass moving. They have to add enough force to the system to accelerate it and change it's momentum. Once it is moving, they can keep pulling it more easily. It will tend to keep moving only shedding speed based on energy lost to friction. An object at rest tends to stay at rest, and an object in motion tends to stay in motion.

The short answer is, whatever he's doing it isn't changing 'weight'.

A solution to what he is doing is that he's transferring the effect mass of the system that is him plus his ibeam to his body and thus changing his the rotational angular momentum of the system. Ie, like when a ballerina/figure skater pulls their arms/legs in after starting to spin which dramatically accelerates the spinning.

The 'magic' is that the ibeam isn't actually pulled in, so the location of impact will be on the end portion of the weapon which is now moving ridiculously fast, and with kinetic energy being 1/2 mv^2, you get his legendary (unbeknownst to Polly apparently) destructive capability.

So his magic is a faking out of the rules of physics by shifting mass within a system. Ta da. :)

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 43: Discussion
« on: March 20, 2015, 10:46:31 am »
A very small nitpick,  since this world is one of magic as science.  He'd change the mass of his weapon,  not the weight.  Even in zero g a more massive weapon has greater momentum. Ie,  it would be rather hard to stop once you get it swinging at high velocity and would pull him from his feet as its mass is so much higher than his,  coupled with its velocity. Similarly,  accelerating to such speed is based on mass,  not weight.

So reduction of mass,  not weight :)

Flipside Discussion / Re: Intermission 30: Special Voting Thread!
« on: February 27, 2015, 07:13:48 am »
Thanks for inviting us to :) Was nice seeing the varied views.

Flipside Discussion / Re: Intermission 30: Special Voting Thread!
« on: February 23, 2015, 08:52:05 am »
As an aside, nice seeing how many readers the poll has gotten to post, regardless of the votes :)

Flipside Discussion / Re: Intermission 30: Special Voting Thread!
« on: February 20, 2015, 01:34:12 pm »
Hah.  I'm apparently (as often the case)  the outlier.  I really want to see what's happening with May and am most engaged with Bern's arc so far, but I vote for :

3. Crest

So far his arc hasn't really gone far into his journey,  and I was actually pretty disappointed by the prior chapter's 'Suspira was really just under some mental delusion'. Thus I'd like to see his arc get some more meat. Also where Bern is capable but lacking depth,  Crest has a bit of complexity but is invisible. I'm curious to see how Brion handles his solo 'vision quest'.

That said I'd also enjoy seeing more of Bern. The stage is set and I'm into it. May is the least interesting to me,  as the comic is already almost all about her. It'll be nice for her to get in touch with her human emotions,  but I'm not as hungry to learn more about her and see her developed.

PS -  could always throw in 4. Bloody Mary,  because just as many shows and comics have discovered it can be surprising which characters the audience falls in love with,  and I think just about everyone loves Mary and I refuse to believe her story is at an end :)

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« on: February 17, 2015, 07:19:36 am »
As aside, hope Polly doesn't leap in to help Bern and get killed redshirt style in order to give Bern her motivation to win.

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« on: February 16, 2015, 09:11:54 am »
I now expect an errant blow to slice off one side of Bern's father's mustache, revealing more of his face and his true identity which will have greater ramifications as we find out he is also Crest's father, which will lead to some interesting questions of his triple identity and what's really happening at the core of the Flipside world.

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« on: February 15, 2015, 03:37:35 pm »
Good question I suppose. I'm looking forward to see how Brian manages to do it.

In a general way,  I'd have hoped she'd have stopped Polly from taking on more suffering to pay for Bern's choices.

From a story perspective,  we're now in a scene that requires martial prowess. If you're asking what I'd like to see her do in this scene,  I'd like to see her be successful. I'd also in a greater story sense like to see her save Polly by offering to take on something that will represent a cost to Bern and which will represent growth and a turning point.

Again,  I assume this is the point of this arc. I'm very engaged to see how Brion manages to do so.  We have the arena as forge,  and Bern is the steel.  What can come of this will determine the balance and temper of the blade.

What would you want to see?

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« on: February 15, 2015, 12:02:14 pm »
I'd like to see Bern have to show strength and earn success in a venue that doesn't involve martial prowess. I actually really want her to grow into the hero and knight she has dreamt of being. If all she does is win because she's super powerful now that she has the swords and a grievance over her treatment in the arena, then all we have a is a power up, not character growth.

Her character so far is very shallow and weak. Sort of a cut out. Good characters are complex, and are often defined by loss and/or sacrifices and the reaction to these things. Bern has never really been much more than the straightman for May. My hope for this arc (and the separate solo arcs for Crest and May) is to have the characters come out with a much greater depth and internal strength than they went in, and for us to have a better sense of the whole of the characters.

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« on: February 15, 2015, 11:23:35 am »
I am outspoken in my view Bern has to get some depth as a character, and have to be more than a mary sue uber-cute, uber-innocent, uber-pacific, uber-skilled swordswoman. However, I admit after the Warden's speech, it does make you want to see Bern show her up.

As for those still stuck on the sex part of choice A. I was thinking. Take that out of the equation.

Bernadette commits a crime for a loved one. This isn't uncommon in RL, people stealing to get money for family, mugging, embezzling, etc. Perhaps for food money, perhaps to get someone else out of trouble etc.

She's convicted and has to go to jail. (Now here we have the one oddity, which doesn't even really make too much sense in the Flipside world, but we'll go with it. Her pal Polly claims to have been involved.. or somehow volunteers to go to jail with her as part of what turns out to be a horribly conceived plan.)

Bern gets to jail and assess her to figure out what job she can do in the jail, work the kitchens, make license plates, bust rocks. Good behavior and demonstrating value to society with better jobs can get you parole sooner. Despite her pal Polly prepping her for this, Bern refuses to participate and is set to busting rocks. It's going to be a long time till she's out.

Polly again tries to help, and goes to bust rocks with her. In fact, she ends up doing her work and Bern's. It all gets done, but it's noticed that Bern once again did nothing. They separate Polly from her finally and let her know she'll be in jail for the max sentence with no real chance of parole. But hey, she has some choices. She can take 10 lashes, or lash someone else.

(I'm leaving out the mutilate element in this to keep things simple.)

Bern's primary motivation has always to be the moral, heroic savior knight type. Period. She obviously can't go simply lashing others. Then Polly steps in again and says, no no. Rather than you taking 10 lashes, I joined you in jail for a crime of your choosing, you refused to prove yourself at orientation, you slacked off when we were paired together, and now I'm going to take 100 lashes to your 10. But really, don't fight me on this because you're so special to me. And so Bern being weak doesn't fight her on it, doesn't take accountability, and lets her friend suffer 10x what she'd have had to for her transgression. That isn't very chivalric, no matter how you want to parse it.

There is nothing moral to letting your friend do this. And if you do want to dwell on the punishment being sexual, it's somehow okay for Polly who has done absolutely nothing wrong to have to suffer ten times as much as Bern in order for Bern to stay pure? Polly is worth less? Polly who is an actual and literal innocent in all of this and has only sought to help her friend at every step, can be sacrificed to a far worse fate and this can ever be justified on Bern's part? It isn't Bern's obligation to make sure her friend doesn't suffer any more than necessary due to her repeated bad choices?

I certainly don't like the Warden's speech in the last page and would love to see her wipe the mat with the three she's facing. Heck, it would be great to see her beat them and then challenge the Warden for a climactic denouement. However, no matter how skilled she is martially, it isn't in any way a mitigating factor. At least in this arc, she's weak, cowardly, unheroic, and in situations where she can't just beat people up to get her way (which is what got her into this mess) she'll let even innocent loved ones suffer rather than take personal accountability.

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« on: February 12, 2015, 08:59:56 am »
How does that work?

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« on: February 11, 2015, 11:58:47 pm »
  • A- Prostitute yourself for a night
  • B- Get mutilated
  • C- Torture someone to death

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« on: February 11, 2015, 04:50:42 pm »
Nothing at all about that from my view. It isn't a moral question. It is a personal accountability question. A couple folk on the forum have been all about the morals of choice A. That's almost irrelevant from the Warden's perspective.

Polly took away Bern's ability to take responsibility for her own actions. Bern had a choice and chance to act like an adult and pay a price in order to make up for previous actions (and lack thereof). And it was a price. Unlike choice C however it was solely a personal sacrifice, not something she'd take out on a third party. As adults we often have to trade off costs vs gains. Polly said to Bern, you're not strong enough/mature enough/capable enough to do so. And by not arguing, Bern agreed. Right now she thinks she's weak and pathetic... and she is. Because she let a friend pay her debt, and pay 10x what she'd have had to pay.

I actually can't see where you think the Warden cares at all about anything sexual or prurient. Nothing she's said or implied hints at her having any interest in such. All of this is a test of Bern's mettle from her perspective. Yes, one of the options involved sexual degradation, probably solely because it has significance to Bern. If Bern had a different personality, the options would likely have been different as well. I also can't figure out what any of this scene would have to do with promiscuity or lust. Neither Bern nor Polly are making a choice based off titillation, it was solely a question of what is a chance to get out of the arena sooner worth to Bern (until Polly disempowered her).

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« on: February 11, 2015, 12:47:54 pm »
You tell her Warden.

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« on: February 09, 2015, 11:03:45 am »
Remember, everyone. Bern's specialty is COUNTER-attacks. She's not "looking down" or depressed. She's clearing her mind so she can kick ass. The first of these three who goes after her will be used as a club against the other two.


Perhaps she's down and will need a few blows to wake her up.

Perhaps she realizes she needs to change her approach to life and be more proactive both in fighting style (as the flaws in her style have been pointed out before) and in her approach to life and will surprise everyone by being the first to attack.

Perhaps Polly will do something foolish as she isn't very rational where Bern is involved

Perhaps it will cut directly to Bern swilling champagne over the piled up corpses of her three opponents yelling 'How do you like them apples' as gems and coins rain down from the crowd and we'll be left to imagine what happened.

Ah the anticipation. Properly roped in and waiting to see what will happen :)

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« on: February 08, 2015, 07:29:02 pm »
I can't really tell if the Warden is malicious. I haven't gotten that impression. She does seem callous and cold about it, but perhaps it is more 'Your friend is going to die, based on what she's shown so far. She has to demonstrate real strength.'

It's implied multiple times that the warden has a higher impression of Bern than the other powers that be in the arena, but also disdain for being so weak willed. The others may consider this just a crowd pleasing slaughter, I'd bet the Warden sees it as a challenge/test. If she succeeds, she's in a much better position, if she fails.. ah well, the Warden was wrong.

I'm curious what's really going through Bern's head right now, if she'll be able to gather herself together on her own, if her father or Polly will say something, or even the Warden.

I'm still waiting to see this chapter's slow but gradual escalation (and the so far disappointing behavior of Bern) help strip her down and reveal a new kernel of strength at her core. A few more pages for character growth :) I'm really interested to see what crystalizes. Thanks Brion. Nice anticipation.

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« on: February 05, 2015, 09:54:46 am »
I think your being a little unfair in that assessment.  Bern DID choose to take option "A" after she learned the hidden pitfalls of option "B" and her outright refusal to compromise her ethics for option "C".  It was Polly who effectively held Bern emotional hostage over choice "A"... she made it clear she would keep out-bidding Bern if she tried to balk Polly in accepting taking the fall for her.  To fight Polly on it would only mean to inflict more harm on her devoted friend... THAT was not Bern's doing it was Polly's choice. 

I agree Polly should stop treating Bern like a helpless little girl and respect Bern for the woman of substance and ethics that she is.. to make her own choices and stand by them!

So you're essentially rephrasing why I claimed Bern is a bit cowardly and without backbone, as compared to Polly. Polly is willing to endure 10x as much as Bern is. Bern could have spoken up and challenged Polly. She could have bid 3 days or even 20 days herself and shown equal determination and taken responsibility. Polly has to endure 20 days, where Bern wasn't willing to endure 3 and confront Polly.

The thing is you're right. None of the choices were 'winning' choices or at least good choices. They all involved a quandary, and some sort of sacrifice. A body part would likely have lead to death, or a much longer period in the arena. The other two rubbed up against different moral or personal virtues. But her goal is to get out, out of this country and back to May. Now she's letting Polly pay the price for her goal. That's not chivalric, or being any sort of friend. So she spent her life dedicated to becoming a swordswoman and knight. But she's a pacifist swordswoman, who will kill and fight... but only when she can pretend someone else forced it on her? And a knight who lets an innocent suffer for her deeds? Just a failure, no matter how skilled with the sword

Anyway, all my opinion and only that :)

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« on: February 04, 2015, 02:46:22 pm »
I just have the sads.

The results are almost irrelevant. We know Bern is a bad-ass with two swords, and now having the twin magic blades that drove her entire style of fighting and quest to be a swordswoman, of course she'll be even more of a bad-ass.

It doesn't compensate for the fact she turned out to be gutless and a coward. She let a friend sacrifice herself, taking on ten times as much pain and degradation as Bern would have had to. She didn't even try to argue. All the talk of morality and purity on the forums, all of Polly's saying how strong and wonderful Bern is, and we're still left with her being a milksop, with no backbone. Polly was willing to do 10x as much for a friend as Bern is, and it was Bern's actions that got them into this in the first place. Her crime, her refusal to prove herself once in the arena, and her unwillingness to confront Polly when Polly started treating her as the child who is unable to make difficult choices that she apparently is. Polly is the real one who has shown heroic traits in this arc, defending Bern, joining her in the arena and risking her life, sacrificing herself for a friend with this punishment, etc. I think she needs to also let Bern stand on her own feet, but it's up to Bern to show she can do that. Bern hasn't really done anything worthy of respect as yet.

It doesn't matter if she wipes the floor with these three, then challenges the Warden and wins. There is no hard choice in that. There is no character growth or depth. It's just 'Bern has PC glow and is sooper skilled'.

As for this last page, obviously the Warden disagrees with those above her who think Bern is about to be slaughtered. It's clearly others who set that up. I presume the Warden has a sense of Bern's skillset from their brief engagement, and is curious to see what she can do with these blades. In her way, she's giving Bern a chance that wouldn't be there otherwise. She's also right that Bern is weak, however skilled she is.

I still look forward to Brion showing Bern actually making some difficult choices/sacrifices or anything that makes her seem like more than a rather two dimensional sketch of a character. I mean, that has to be the point of these solo arcs, to give each character a chance to grow into themselves as individuals and reveal/explore their depths. Hope springs eternal :)

Flipside Discussion / Re: Mistake Thread
« on: January 23, 2015, 12:22:20 pm »
7th frame: phtsical should be physical

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« on: January 23, 2015, 12:30:18 am »
What? Bern had no response to that? She let Polly put her on a false pedestal and once again sat back to let someone else take on the burden of getting things done, and suffering 10x what she would?

Say it isn't so

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« on: January 13, 2015, 07:43:24 pm »
And after Polly's speech

"That's nice, but I'm an adult. I need you, my friend to support my acting like an adult, standing on my own feet, owning up to my own choices. You can offer your aid, but you can't step in for my responsibilities as if I'm a child. That's not being a friend. The Warden is right. Plus, if we want to work together to get out sooner, your taking ten times as long to finish the task that can get me to an A rank fight costs us time I don't want to spend here. I appreciate it, you're awesome. Now be a friend and help me instead of treating me as a weakling and child who isn't strong enough to take care of herself."

But with more wide eyed staring from everyone else involved :)

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« on: January 10, 2015, 01:44:13 pm »
So now Bern will have to accept doing 2 nights! Polly will just have made things even worse for her.

By the way, I think this conversation has been going on long enough. Put an end to it already.

I agree with that I suppose, a bit drawn out

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« on: January 09, 2015, 06:14:10 pm »
Hey all. Been wandering Asia for a little.

As one of the first to support option A (or really anything but option B), I'm glad to see Bern stepping up. I've said it before, the current arcs are interesting because they take the chars out of the existing party dynamic, letting us see them as individuals and addressing areas of their personality that need to be tested/fleshed out.

Bern just sacrificing for a 'new scar' isn't meaningful to her, and being willing to torture another is outside her bounds. We are defined in many ways by the challenges we face and how we do it, so I'm glad Bern is stepping up and hopefully will feel more plausible/fleshed out as a result.

That said, I personally have no real interest or need in a whole chapter of prurient exploitation of Bern and doubt Brion is going there. Obviously, can't just have Bern's need to follow through with her decision be 'saved', but I'm sure he has a path in mind. :)

Interesting here that Polly is making it harder for Bern to make her own choices, and actually more expensive. I don't see Polly's logic though. The Warden doesn't have to do anything. She gave Polly an option, but there is no contract involved here. What she wanted was Bern, and she got it. Lets see if Polly has just doubled the cost of Bern's owning up to her actions though.

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« on: December 17, 2014, 07:31:52 pm »
Wouldn't that be a real character development for Bern, become a complete coward and ultimate pacifist who will sacrifice a woman who clearly loves her for her own personal benefit of seeing May quicker?
That would be quite selfish which many wanted to see Bern acting like, using someone else well-being and body for her own gains :P

I suppose that's true. Would be an amusing turn. :P Not very protagonist worthy, but certainly would be char development!

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« on: December 17, 2014, 01:31:29 pm »
"I'll do all three!"  Damn... now THAT'S devotion!  But, I'm Certain... Bern will NOT allow that!

Or why the warden would even really care. Can likely get lots of people to do it, but it was a test for Bern. Plus all the same issues remain on B and survival. Lastly, yes... it would rather undermine this being a story for Bern's growth. I'm trusting Brion won't take us down that path :P At least hopefully it will galvanize Bern to stop whining and act to stop her.

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« on: December 15, 2014, 05:59:11 pm »
Btw, Brion. I do want to reiterate (because my critique of Bern's personality may be harsh), that I enjoy what you're doing. Most comic characters tend to be a bit flat as we only see them within the limited environment of the context of comics. Also I imagine some of the idiosyncrasies crop up over time. It's nice to see some of that lack of cohesion coming together and seeing others frustrated when they finally are apparent. So kudos :)

Flipside Discussion / Re: Chapter 42: Discussion
« on: December 15, 2014, 03:34:43 pm »
An interesting tact by Polly, not really relevant as the question isn't what rank she is capable of, it's what rank Bern is and Polly performing a task still doesn't address the question of Bern's willpower.

Mostly OOC I hope it isn't offloaded into some morally complex issue of Polly being faced with whipping Bern's father to death because that was the price he paid to have the blades delivered to Bern (or something similarly interesting, and yet a distraction from the chance for Bern to become more than a cut out prudish but likeable foil for Maytag.)

Pages: [1] 2