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Comics Discussion => Flipside Discussion => Topic started by: Brion Foulke on December 17, 2018, 03:40:09 pm

Title: Chapter 52: Discussion
Post by: Brion Foulke on December 17, 2018, 03:40:09 pm
This is the thread for discussing chapter 52.
Title: Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
Post by: SAGG on December 17, 2018, 07:53:40 pm
Curses! You beat me in starting yet another chapter thread, Brion! Well-played! 😠😆 Anyhoo, does this mean Bern, Maytag, and Crest are finally going to finally reunite?
Title: Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on December 17, 2018, 08:41:52 pm
I see "wall-flower" on Crest's shoulder... what about Suspiria?!?  SHE's the one who REALLY needs him!
Title: Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on December 18, 2018, 03:55:32 am
sunphoenix, I imagine the reason it's just these three is they're the leaders of this group. And yeah there's alot of fallout from this thing. Glyph, Buzz, and the other girl all died (a knife wound is resurrect-able, I'd imagine, being dismembered and stuck inside a pit... a bit harder, though that might be a later quest, to get revenge on what did this).

Depending on the tone, think of a theme song for this chapter. I'm going say (Where Were They Going Without Ever Knowing) The Way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0wfu3tOrtQ

Oh, I didn't notice those shoulder hangers. That's cute!
Title: Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on December 20, 2018, 07:36:32 am
Eh...

S-sso sorry Moby... but ~ this is ... kind of your fault.. YOU pushed the sorceress with the power to warp reality.. when the situation was under control.. she had captured and apprehended the villainous wizard in charge of the cells who clearly had been doing something wicked with the prisoners... feeding them to something!  But YOU pushed the confrontation THEN and THERE with her.  It should have been handled in a much more controlled and calm environment but YOU wanted to rubb her face in the fact she was shaping reality to fit her assumptions... which the jury is STILL out on whether she was wrong at all in my opinion ...but that's just me.  Confronting her in a dangerous situation and shattering her view of reality made her shape a horrid semi-reality that indeed KILLED a lot of your friends.. but again.. she was no more in control of that than you were!  The THIN man never gave her a choice about being boosted to have so much magic she could not control... the SAME thing could have happened to YOU!~  It was bad timing an badly done... Suspiria could have been talked down... in a more calm and controlled situation but YOU forced that then and there!  What did you expect would happen when the reality warping sorceress found out she was living with a lie and her reality was flawed?!?

Don't blame Crest for loving Suspiria... he offered the same sort of to you.. but YOU rejected it.

I just hope she does not do something to hurt herself.. I REALLY do feel for Moby!  She has just been through a harrowing experience... one she was certainly NOT emotionally prepared for! :(
Title: Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on December 21, 2018, 02:14:02 pm
I've been around relationships where the other person is like that.

It doesn't really matter whose fault it is. They're hurt and bothering them right then won't help. Usually at that point, I don't know what to do to help.
Title: Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
Post by: Brion Foulke on December 21, 2018, 05:55:57 pm
Curses! You beat me in starting yet another chapter thread, Brion! Well-played! 😠😆 Anyhoo, does this mean Bern, Maytag, and Crest are finally going to finally reunite?

Wouldn't that be cool?
Title: Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on December 21, 2018, 06:39:37 pm
I've been around relationships where the other person is like that.

It doesn't really matter whose fault it is. They're hurt and bothering them right then won't help. Usually at that point, I don't know what to do to help.

I know..right?  You want Sooo much to help.. but they won't have it.. all you can really do is keep an eye on them.. and be there when they are ready to open up... or really need you.

@ Brion - Yeah.. THAT would be cool!
Title: Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
Post by: SAGG on December 22, 2018, 03:26:54 am
Eh...

S-sso sorry Moby... but ~ this is ... kind of your fault.. YOU pushed the sorceress with the power to warp reality.. when the situation was under control.. she had captured and apprehended the villainous wizard in charge of the cells who clearly had been doing something wicked with the prisoners... feeding them to something!  But YOU pushed the confrontation THEN and THERE with her.  It should have been handled in a much more controlled and calm environment but YOU wanted to rubb her face in the fact she was shaping reality to fit her assumptions... which the jury is STILL out on whether she was wrong at all in my opinion ...but that's just me.  Confronting her in a dangerous situation and shattering her view of reality made her shape a horrid semi-reality that indeed KILLED a lot of your friends.. but again.. she was no more in control of that than you were!  The THIN man never gave her a choice about being boosted to have so much magic she could not control... the SAME thing could have happened to YOU!~  It was bad timing an badly done... Suspiria could have been talked down... in a more calm and controlled situation but YOU forced that then and there!  What did you expect would happen when the reality warping sorceress found out she was living with a lie and her reality was flawed?!?

Don't blame Crest for loving Suspiria... he offered the same sort of to you.. but YOU rejected it.

I just hope she does not do something to hurt herself.. I REALLY do feel for Moby!  She has just been through a harrowing experience... one she was certainly NOT emotionally prepared for! :(
Maybe Moby knows this, and is too ashamed to admit she was wrong...? 🤔
Title: Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
Post by: UmberIsSexy on December 26, 2018, 11:59:33 pm
I see "wall-flower" on Crest's shoulder... what about Suspiria?!?  SHE's the one who REALLY needs him!

You know, to be honest, I think what Suspiria needs more than anything is to do a little soul-searching on her own.  If Crest is keeping his distance a bit, that's probably wise and honorable.  Suspiria is not in the right emotional space to start a healthy relationship, and I think it'd be difficult for Crest to be any closer to her and still maintain "just friends" status.  A relationship with Suspiria seems WAY dangerous (ridiculously so due to all her power) and also emotionally exhausting right now.  Even trying to support her emotionally or protect her could end up being tricky.

But, we'll see, I guess.  Anyway, due to recent revelations, Suspiria has become a much more interesting character now, assuming she can escape from being a statue..  I think the Phalanx will want to do something to control her, however, or curb her power somehow.  It's interesting that Melter would just hand her over to Crest's keeping, unless he's sure she's really just a statue now.
Title: Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on December 29, 2018, 12:07:30 am
Do not believe him Crest... her power still lives.. YOU all being alive proves that!  Plus it serves HIS ends better that someone with her power no longer be around... that an his master's.  Believe in her and yourself... use the sword 'Heal' Her!
Title: Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on December 29, 2018, 04:40:24 am
-Yeats

Quote
Too long a sacrifice can make a stone of the heart
O when may it suffice?
That is Heaven's part,
Our part is to murmur name on name,
as a mother names her child.
When sleep at last has come,
on limbs that had run wild.
What is it but nightfall?
No, no, not night but death.
Was it needless death after all?

(Then he taks about England, since this is a context of a revolt vs England)

https://www.unp.me/f153/too-long-a-sacrifice-can-make-a-stone-of-the-heart-169186/
Title: Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on January 10, 2019, 04:06:47 am
Ok... something does not add up...

Who or what gave Regina the Orb?  What was it or what was it supposed to do and did it do it?!?

Clearly... Suspiria had a classic emotional breakdown, and Moby is fast on the same route... but who WAS the guy in the prison?  Was he from the pit.. and Again.. what the fuck was the pit and what happened to the prisoneers fed to it?  I'd assume they are all dead... just like Buzz and Glyph... but does that mean the pit is a monster or a portal to a accursed or sentient realm?  WTF IS IT?!?

And Is it STILL a threat?

And for the record...what exactly was Melter there to accomplish.. resolve The Pit, Suspiria... ?  I think he told everyone he was there to observe Suspiria..but how did HE know she would be there?
Title: Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
Post by: dekutree64 on January 10, 2019, 10:35:01 pm
Do not believe him Crest... her power still lives.. YOU all being alive proves that!  Plus it serves HIS ends better that someone with her power no longer be around... that an his master's.  Believe in her and yourself... use the sword 'Heal' Her!
Indeed. Probably should try kissing too, since that occasionally cures such conditions.
Title: Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on January 14, 2019, 06:07:58 am
AS GOD IS MY Witness... I Swear she slipped and fell into the pit!  No one pushed her.. not me!

So since she cannot die by simply being mangled... Mary is now a ~ Gore-naut, Zombie-naut, Carrion-naut...???

"And to think... I hesitated." ~ Hellraiser II: Hellbound
Title: Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on January 14, 2019, 08:14:01 am
AS GOD IS MY Witness... I Swear she slipped and fell into the pit!  No one pushed her.. not me!

So since she cannot die by simply being mangled... Mary is now a ~ Gore-naut, Zombie-naut, Carrion-naut...???

"And to think... I hesitated." ~ Hellraiser II: Hellbound

I imagine she's eaten some of her clones too.

https://youtu.be/Vgkoucw_M44?t=401
(Video about critters eating a fishman and concealing the fact)

Title: Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on January 15, 2019, 06:20:37 am
Bwahahaha! I remember that episode of "Slayers"... I think later on he criticizes them for eating him and not sharing WITH HIM! {Snicker...} Great Vintage stuff!
Title: Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
Post by: SirBananaPie on January 15, 2019, 09:56:57 am
Page 12 reminded me of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESr2HU38eDM :P
Title: Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on January 15, 2019, 10:55:44 am
{Snicker}

...oh-Oh..I got it.. now Mary is a ~ Necro-naut!  Into the pit ~ "To OBLIVION.. and Below!!!"
Title: Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on January 16, 2019, 04:48:41 am
Bwahahaha! I remember that episode of "Slayers"... I think later on he criticizes them for eating him and not sharing WITH HIM! {Snicker...} Great Vintage stuff!

I don't remember that part but the part right before he mentions how crisp and delicious his friend looks. Pretty sure this joke wasn't in the dub though.

I checked. He calls him a lunch special, and says "You ate him! You ate him all!" implying he wanted some too.
Title: Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
Post by: SAGG on January 16, 2019, 08:19:52 pm
I wonder what this is all about?  ??? What, a new Bloody Mary, independent of her clones, ready to start a new terror? 🤔
Title: Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on January 17, 2019, 12:16:47 am
Thin Man mentioned or implied that Bloody Mary would eventually outgrow her need for human flesh (http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=3039).

That is, regeneration, doesn't come from nowhere. This magic (whether actually tech or not) operates under physical laws. One of those is that regeneration in all likelihood exacts a toll on the body. What toll? A requirement for alot of energy (and matter) to use to regrow herself. The likely reason it must be human is because she needs similar tissue to reconstitute herself.

Which makes us wonder what's really going on with the easy regrowth of May's hand (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FridgeHorror)...

I think I know what's going on. It's kinda a jar bug ritual (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kodoku). It was in an anime called Ghost Hunt, and also in Inuyasha. She's trying to get a version of herself that doesn't need to eat to heal.
Title: Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on January 18, 2019, 11:40:14 am
@ Bulma ~ Close, but I don't think that's quite it.  I think the Thin-Man Lehm... realized that the secrets to the nature of magic and the world in-general are possibly concealed in locale that seem to be inimicle to normal mortal life.  Discovering the pit and it mysterious nature and qualities made Lehm send Melter to the pit with Mary to try to asertain it's nature, just like we conjecture Lehm used Mary for the dark passage. Fortunately this pit obstacle was purely a physical obstruction... meaning it inflicted raw damage upon anything living that tried to desend to its depths... nothing living made of flesh unaided by garden variety magic could survive to reach the bottom to learn of what it contained/concealed. So Lehm's magically created monter in the form of Mary was necessary to enchant/create to get something living that could survive to reach the bottom and report findings.  And even then... the only portions of Mary that reached the bottom of the pit was only a splattering of gore from her mangled and liquified body!  But apparently that is indeed enough for her to reform. It looks like Mary may have the ability to share the thoughts or perceptions of her duplicates.  Very interesting!
Title: Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on January 21, 2019, 03:14:24 pm
What is this thing (http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=1899)?
Title: Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on January 21, 2019, 09:18:55 pm
BAM! "Called it!"
Title: Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
Post by: UmberIsSexy on January 25, 2019, 12:34:59 am
You sure did!
BAM! "Called it!"
Title: Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
Post by: Brion Foulke on January 25, 2019, 03:30:27 pm
Just thought I'd mention that the Kickstarter just got funded today!  We reached the $5,000 for book 10!  Yay!

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1016357068/flipside-book-10-in-print-form
Title: Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
Post by: SAGG on January 29, 2019, 01:34:35 am
Woo hoo! Bern is back! 😋
Title: Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
Post by: UmberIsSexy on January 31, 2019, 12:14:29 am
OMG Brion that's awesome, congrats!!!
Title: Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on February 01, 2019, 04:39:45 am
You know.. Bernadette and Polly are BOTH really pretty... but they never smile... they'd be even prettier if they occasionally smiled!
Title: Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
Post by: Brion Foulke on February 01, 2019, 05:18:02 pm
Well, they have had some troubles recently!  Don't worry, I'm sure they will smile again!
Title: Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on February 02, 2019, 11:47:40 am
Well I hope ~ Polly does not overthink Bernadette too much.  Bern returns home.. in shame ..as she must admit to her truest and dearest Maytag.. that SHE her Bernadette.. who has always portrayed a image of stable, serious, devotion and moral certainty.. has been infidelitous to her love?  I'm sure Bernadette feels like a traitor to Maytag... and is a long way from forgiving herself!
BUT... she has Polly with her.. she Wants Polly with her... Bern does not blame Polly and the fact that Polly is with her says no matter if Maytag forgives her or not... Bern has decided Polly is going to be a part of her life now!

I hope Polly understands how significant Bern wanting her with her is!  THAT is Love.  That is Devotion.. though Bern is not one for long-winded dialogue.. her actions speak volumes.  Bernadette knows in her heart she loves Both Maytag.. AND Polly.

I just hope Polly gives her a chance to express that.
Title: Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on February 14, 2019, 04:29:43 am
That sketchy shading. Anyone else think he might be one of those demons?
Title: Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on February 14, 2019, 04:47:10 am
Not sure.. but that mustache looks fake as hell!

But from Sexy Dangerous Polly's expression she doesn't look too inclined to trust this guy... she just wants to let this play out to see where this is going.. before heads get smashed with flying Balls O' Doom...!
Title: Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on February 14, 2019, 07:10:56 pm
Polly's a Ball Buster for sure!  ;D

The saying it was a fake mustache made me think of just how far May could troll Bern. Disguising as a weird mustachioed man would probly make the top of the list. Call it now, that's totally not a demon as I originally though but May in a weird disguise.  ;D
Title: Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on February 14, 2019, 08:03:01 pm
OH Shit! THAT would be Sooo appropriate for Maytag!  8)
Title: Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on February 20, 2019, 07:27:44 am
Hey Brion.. I'm really digging the Eschelon Culture's access to 'contragravity-Tech'...er.. "Magics"  ;D to have floating buildings and structures.  That's sooo cool!  :-*
Title: Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
Post by: Brion Foulke on February 20, 2019, 03:21:37 pm
Thanks!  I figured since it was a city of magic it might as well have some magical design aspects!  At least as many as I could think of.
Title: Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on February 21, 2019, 05:25:23 am
The Bell woman... She's the one I suspect most of tampering with everyone's mind around the events of the murder of Conclave. It's always the mousy secretary.
Title: Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on February 21, 2019, 08:43:23 am
Y'know.. I agree with that... the more they say Maytag is being protected the more I'm getting uneasy.  Which begs the question.. 'Protected? From What, for god's Sake?!?'
Title: Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
Post by: SAGG on February 27, 2019, 08:28:47 pm
Hmmm...room 313. That's the same frame number in the Zapruder film when President Kennedy's head exploded after the bullet hit it. Possible warning that this is some sort of trap...? 🤔
Title: Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on March 04, 2019, 05:49:00 pm
SQWEEEEEEE!!!!!   :-*

Sorry... couldn't contain it!
Title: Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on March 06, 2019, 06:28:18 pm
Hmmm...room 313. That's the same frame number in the Zapruder film when President Kennedy's head exploded after the bullet hit it. Possible warning that this is some sort of trap...? 🤔

There's also John 3:13 (just typing in 3:13 to see what passages I got) about practically nobody returning from Heaven. I'm thinking about all the people trying the Dark Cell and none of them making it (failing and getting memory-wiped).

Also there's Corinthians 3:13 where it talks about trials by fire and testing people. Pretty much the Arena and the Dark Cell.

I think two random passages are probably more significant than exploding heads. But I could be wrong.

It's also the date of the Edict of Milan.  But that's not very relevant.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/313_(number)  (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/313_(number))

It's also a crazy number in math (palindromic prime, twin prime with 311, several other types of prime, and an Armstrong number). 

Also, this page is sooooo cute.
Title: Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on March 06, 2019, 08:11:54 pm
Also, this page is sooooo cute.

Aheh... yeaaah...  :-*
Title: Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on March 08, 2019, 02:29:39 pm
Ain't LOVE Grand!  :-*
Title: Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
Post by: SirBananaPie on March 11, 2019, 05:34:22 am
It's interesting how many 313 references you found without mentioning Donald Duck's car. 8)
Title: Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on March 15, 2019, 05:39:30 am
I think she might have CS3's teapot.  That's why she's asking Polly to be specific.
Title: Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on March 16, 2019, 05:04:03 am
What a ...deadly weapon in some creative person's hands...  Tea pot give me... cobra venom, sulpheric Acid ( H2SO4), deuterium oxide (2H2O, D2O), Dimethylmercury ((CH3)2Hg), human-blood, liquid nitrogen, kerosine... the list goes on and on...
Title: Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
Post by: Brion Foulke on March 16, 2019, 11:02:48 am
What a ...deadly weapon in some creative person's hands...  Tea pot give me... cobra venom, sulpheric Acid ( H2SO4), deuterium oxide (2H2O, D2O), Dimethylmercury ((CH3)2Hg), human-blood, liquid nitrogen, kerosine... the list goes on and on...

Yeah... but then again, so is a kitchen knife!
Title: Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on March 16, 2019, 01:03:18 pm
True, but my point is a knife is obvious... a drink poured in a cup for you is not.  A knife can be parried or blocked... but a splash of something highly corrosive or toxic.. you MUST dodge as contact of ANY sort could be deadly.

"A door left open,
a woman walking by,
a drop in the water,
a look in her eye,
a phone on a table,
a man on your side ~

"Or Someone that you think that you can trust ~
Is Just, Another way to die!"
Title: Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on March 19, 2019, 05:11:36 am
...And she's milking it for all she's worth.  May knows that aside from creepy psycho cook making monsters, most of the Thin Man's crew aren't really dangerous, and Lehm is on the side of government exposure (i.e. truth). And most of the ppl who have been memory erased can't ask to be taken under Conclave wing because they don't remember what happened.  The Conclave itself knows that unlike legit terrorists, the Thin Man isn't a real threat (though he does in some ways undermine their authority). But because May knows Lehm isn't an issue, and Conclave knows he isn't an issue, but Conclave doesn't know May knows, and the public cannot be allowed to know, she is given protective custody and a snazzy room.
Title: Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
Post by: SirBananaPie on March 21, 2019, 12:55:19 am
Ah, this time Brion did the coming, going and pleasing thing right. Or maybe this is the time when he did it wrong. ;D

http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=3833
http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=3853
Title: Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
Post by: Brion Foulke on March 22, 2019, 10:25:20 am
See, I learned!
Title: Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
Post by: SAGG on March 22, 2019, 08:41:14 pm
Good idea, Enclave. Have Eve oversee everything so she can cut loose with her powers... 😆
Title: Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on March 23, 2019, 02:46:33 am
Muct be a brief bit or absolute terror and pain then dispair to approach her before the elevator enters the "eye"... can you imagine experiencing that riding a elevator up without the ability to stop it?  The "elevator" must be enclosed and set on automatic - not under the rider's control to force them to enter 'the eye', cause I'd think you'd have to be afraid of folks leaping off the platform in shear panic as it rose to her floating home!
Title: Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
Post by: SirBananaPie on March 25, 2019, 09:23:41 am
Sooooo.... this whole ordeal with dark cell led to what exactly? I mean, I'm happy for Eye to finally be free, but aside from that, was there a point in finding out what dark cell is? Kinda feels like a dead end, unless e.g. the conclave manages to inspect the dark storm and find out some things. It would be nice if they could finally do something useful.

I hope Mary has more luck in the pit. And that Suspiria can come back. That'd be another useful thing the conclave could do if they're powerful enough.
Title: Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on March 26, 2019, 04:20:21 am
...And she's milking it for all she's worth.  May knows that aside from creepy psycho cook making monsters, most of the Thin Man's crew aren't really dangerous, and Lehm is on the side of government exposure (i.e. truth). And most of the ppl who have been memory erased can't ask to be taken under Conclave wing because they don't remember what happened.  The Conclave itself knows that unlike legit terrorists, the Thin Man isn't a real threat (though he does in some ways undermine their authority). But because May knows Lehm isn't an issue, and Conclave knows he isn't an issue, but Conclave doesn't know May knows, and the public cannot be allowed to know, she is given protective custody and a snazzy room.

Yup, I was right.  "Poor little me, I was KIDNAPPED by the EVIL Thin Man, and forced to do all kinds of horrible things. Here's his last known location.  What? He moved? GASP!!! Yes, by all means, I will need witness protection, and btw, my friend here, you're gonna give her a place to live? No, you say? :steps closer with Eye: You will!!! How wonderful!"

 Once she gets inside... "Yay! Free housing!"

 As to people saying this is a dead end, well Eye can go outside (better) and May has a secure house and travel with Bern. Hopefully, at some point, Eye while not losing her power can contain it.
Title: Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on March 26, 2019, 04:41:46 am
"control, Control.. you Must learn CONTROL!"

Now how does Crest fit into to all this?
Title: Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
Post by: SirBananaPie on March 26, 2019, 08:24:21 am
As to people saying this is a dead end, well Eye can go outside (better) and May has a secure house and travel with Bern. Hopefully, at some point, Eye while not losing her power can contain it.
Yes, but I meant regarding finding out some secrets of this world, because that was the whole point of going through Dark Cell.
Title: Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on March 28, 2019, 04:31:24 am
So here's a question... is Maytag a sociopath.. or a psychopath? 

Sociopathy's usually undergo some trauma as a child that conditions their brain not to form emotional attachments for self-preservation.  But a psychopath is born with a brain that does not process emotion at all.  By Maytag's claims she 'acts' normal because she knows to succeed at society it is necessary to 'seem' to form emotional attachments and react the way others expect her too ~ when in truth there is only a void of emotion within her...

So what does that say about her "feelings" for Bernadette?

Sociopaths 'can' form emotional attachments with time and effort.. the brain circuitry is still there they just have been traumatized to avoid working as the brain keep telling them to survive they must not form such attachments...

But a psychopath feels nothing and does not understand why they should... literally they do not care ~ the brain circuitry is not there to begin with.

So which is Maytag?
Title: Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on March 28, 2019, 10:29:28 am
She's neither. I've asked this question to Brion before. As I remember he said no to her being a psycho.

She might be schizoid, one of the milder autistic spectrum disorders, or simply have flat emotions.

But she actually does care for people. She just can't show it.
Title: Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on March 28, 2019, 02:16:12 pm
AH!  Well.. I must say.. THAT is a true relief to know.  As her reactions to others seem too genuine to truly be a a mask simply to fool those around her... I'm glad she is not either!

Thank you for the insight... i like her character just that much more, now! :-*
Title: Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
Post by: Brion Foulke on March 28, 2019, 02:20:25 pm
What I will say is: although you might recognize traits that come from some of those categories, Maytag is written to not fit neatly into one of those "boxes."
Title: Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on March 29, 2019, 11:54:08 am
So basically she's this?

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AmbiguousDisorder

The difference between a sociopath, psychopath, schizoid, and autistic (for quick reference):
https://www.diffen.com/difference/Psychopath_vs_Sociopath

It's not as simple as that, though because there are also something called a covert schizoid (https://mentalhealthdaily.com/2014/03/21/covert-schizoid-sexuality-behavioral-patterns/), someone who tries to feel emotions even though they can't really do it well.
Title: Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on March 29, 2019, 08:02:20 pm
Its interesting.. in my Starfinder Game one of the players is playing a male Android who HE claims is a psychopathy... he IS Evil.. lawful Evil to be exact.  But its not apparent to us other characters.  He does what he does cause it efficient.. he really doesn't care one way or the other and is rather clinical in his actions.

I think I'm playing the only actually Good-aligned character in the party as a Neutral Good, and yet he can be kinda fanatical when it comes to the treatment of certain evil religions worshippers.  The other two are lawful Neutral.

And yes I know some of you may hate beyond words the idea of alignment... but in the context of the game setting its fascinating to observe.
Title: Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on March 31, 2019, 04:34:22 am
An extremely large number of writers mishandle psychopathy/sociopathy, which is probably why the world is a lot worse than it should be.

They tend to make "psychopaths" to be mustachioed types that look sketchy or oily from the start, have a wicked laugh, and are so reeking of evil that everyone can tell. Or they make fun of people who have trouble expressing their emotions (like Maytag, when she's not doing her dramatic dual personality). Or they decide people who hear voices or have weird behavior are psychos (this one really annoys me, because it means autistic ppl and scizophrenics get feared and/or mistreated).

The person on the bus that you should sit two seats away from isn't the smelly woman who mumbles to herself "ash nazg durnatuluk, ash nazg gimbatul..." not unless her eyes glow or head turns backwards.  It's the charming "confident" guy or girl who seems to have no sense of restraint.  This is a warning sign of about three dangerous social disorders: sociopathy, psychopathy, and toxic narcissism.  And you will later discover that lack of restraint also means lack of remorse.  If something bad happens, it's someone else's fault, or some excuse.  I believe Kohlberg was right, that there are stages of ethics.  The psychopath, when written correctly, is someone stuck at the preconventional morality, they avoid punishment.  Now, how many politicians does this sound like? If you said, "All of them" you're unfortunately probably right.

I find the D&D idea of good/evil overly simplistic.  It's too much like the melodrama with eirher ppl in mustaches or people with chainmail armor and swords and shields.  It also fails to account for complex motivations. Except there are nine instead of two.
 Law, Balance, and Chaos is the model of Avatar: The Last Airbender, Korra, and some other media.  The difference between this an D&D model is that chaos doesn't necessarily mean crazy as you can also be lawful and crazy (as Kuvira was), and good and evil are the result of actions not the cause of them.  That is, you don't do things because you're evil, you do things because of personal motivations, and if suffering results, you're out of balance and something evil has happened as a result of you. Keep doing evil things, and it makes you an evil person. Not the other way around.
Title: Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on March 31, 2019, 07:27:01 am
Lol..to be sure.. we players of our game are ALL Moorcock readers and prefer the Law, Balance, Chaos ideal of alignment.  In our games we don't view Good and Evil based on a innate nature... but on how one views the lives of other beings compared to their own.  Evil beings generally view their lives as more important than anyone or anything else.. and care very little if at all about the live of those around them..as long as their goals are achived.  Good people are somewhat the opposite of that view.  Its not perfect and it is not always case...Evil people can love.. but it is more about what THEY are getting out of love.. not so much the well-being or desires of the individual they love.  Again THEIR life and satisfaction are more important to them.  Just as good people can be overbearing viewing their way of protecting other lives is by restricting their choices or freedoms... but its the lengths to which a 'good' person will go that slowly shifts them away from goodness to tyrannical evil.

Our DM actually prefers the Palladium RPG Alignment system ~ {Good} Principled, Scrupulous, {Selfish} Unprincipled, Anarchist, {Evil} Miscreant, Aberrant,  and finally Diabolic.
Title: Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on March 31, 2019, 06:42:38 pm
Huh. No sooner do I say this than I see Dio Brando. He's pretty much spot on what I mean, charming, successful, and ruthless as anything.

:Kicks a dog: "Oh I didn't mean to! I thought it was trying to bite me!"
Title: Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on April 03, 2019, 04:31:38 am
Ok..enough with the April fools.. new page pls!
Title: Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on April 04, 2019, 02:16:07 am
Polly admits to having sex with Bern.

Narrator: Now most people would become insanely jealous. But not Maytag!


Title: Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on April 05, 2019, 05:04:26 pm
Well.. I can tell that Maytag realizes Polly is holding something in... but Maytag is a shrewd body language reader.  She is judging Polly's reactions with her seemingly innocent questions... but that is far from the case.. Maytag's expression does not show it but she is trying to figure out exactly what Poly's story or game is...

Its VERY hard to fool, Maytag... and can be hazardous to try.
Title: Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on April 08, 2019, 10:45:04 pm
She knows because of Bern.

That speech she gave to the Thin Man about having accomplices.  Bern is telling her everything she needs to know without saying a word.
Title: Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
Post by: SirBananaPie on April 10, 2019, 03:34:34 am
Hehehe, Maytag is finally making her move. I just love it when someone asks penetrating questions with an innocent smile. :-* I wonder if Bern warned Polly ahead of time.

I wonder when Crest returns to them and tells them something like "Um, you know how the Phalanx protecting you is supposed to be stronger than ever by now? So, yeah, here's the thing about our most recent mission.... well, to use a euphemism: I'm their second most competent leader after Q'talda now, followed by Regina." 8)
Title: Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on April 11, 2019, 12:30:21 am
She knows because of Bern.

That speech she gave to the Thin Man about having accomplices.  Bern is telling her everything she needs to know without saying a word.

Indeed.

Right now... Maytag was waiting for Bern to speak up... cause clearly... Polly was in Emotional agony.. and she just found out how long Bern would let that go on.  Polly is so loyal she would not answer even when pressed... but it does say something that Polly would NOT lie...which I'm sure Maytag picked up on as well!
Title: Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on April 15, 2019, 07:19:22 pm
Ok.. just noticed Book 0... {blush}...I know embarrassing considering I've been a fan for years now.  Binge reading it now.. gotta say.. Maytag is terribly cute!  And Ashley reminds me of DBZ 'Culiflower' {snicker}!  I'm glad thus far Bernadette has not had to kill any of them.. I'm on chapter 5.

EDIT 1#:  Tee-hee... I like the jingle of Maytags bells.. but I understand why you took them out.  But... perhaps her bells should jingle when Maytag's moving in for some... aheh, trying to score! {snicker}

EDIT 2#:  Uhm.. why did the Maw spit Bern out?  That's perplexing...

EDIT 3#:  By the way Brion.. I love YOUR coloring.. never would have visualized the color schemes you chose!  VERY Nice!  :-*
http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic/book0/fs15pg01.html

EDIT 4#: For the Record Brion... I feel that small-breasted or not... Bernadette is a Very lovely woman inside which makes her perhaps small proportions outside inconsequential!  Any man would be honored to gain her love.. if she were inclined that way!  :-*

EDIT 5#:  Ulp..how Sweet!   ;)  Maytag's real name is Veranda!  :-*

EDIT 6#:  Huh.. Maytag smells like licorice?!?  Odd... not sure how to fit that in my mind lol!  I'm not a fan of licorice...but in Maytag's case... I think I'd give it a another try {snicker}!  And she is cute as a jester... don't get me wrong... but she's totally irresistible with her mask off.. all that cute short-blonde hair!  ;D Gah... she's a Heartbreaker!  :-*

EDIT 7#:  Ok.. I LOVED Book 0! I think your art evolved visibly through the chapters... the story was heart-touching and I'm sorry it took me so long to get to read it.  You should put it in the normal books rotation it IS really Good and in my opinion stands well on its own!  Thank you!  :-*
Title: Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on April 16, 2019, 10:34:09 am
Hey wait...!

http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=2983

Is that Asheley?!?
Title: Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
Post by: SirBananaPie on April 17, 2019, 12:35:24 am
Wahahahaha Maytag is so blunt about how sharp she is! ;D :-*
Title: Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on April 19, 2019, 05:32:19 am
OH GODS!!! The Drama and tension are KILLING ME!!!  Either ...Maytag is going to pull them both close and bang BOTH THEIR BRAINS OUT...or they are all going to be SHATTERED and part in Grief... and honestly... I'm not sure which!!!

DAMN YOU Brion! Damn you all the way ta...!  :-*
Title: Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on April 22, 2019, 02:43:10 am
 :-*

LOVE.. IS the Answer!!! :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QZjJU-mtFU
Title: Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on April 24, 2019, 04:26:37 am
Bern: Well, there was that time where we had sex in the Arena, does that count?
May: :sweatdrops: Hmmmm.
Title: Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on April 24, 2019, 12:57:27 pm
May:  ... {looks over at Polly ~ and leers} So... does that mean I'm invited too?
Title: Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on May 02, 2019, 08:14:39 pm
"I know you! I almost knew you as soon as I saw you on the road coming to my door. Since then, there is no movement of yours that has not betrayed you! A pace, a glance, a turn of the head, the flash of your throat as you breathe... even your way of standing perfectly still - they were all my spies!" ~ King Haggard, 'The Last Unicorn'
Title: Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
Post by: SAGG on May 03, 2019, 01:49:44 am
Okay, May...? I think you're being a tad too understandable...? 😆
Title: Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on May 03, 2019, 03:32:32 am
It's like she said though. Hasn't really betrayed her.  Betrayed is when you lie and say "this is not what it looks like" when clearly it is. Bern, the entire time cared about how her Dearest felt, and wanted to tell her what she was doing. Even though it hurt. Even though she feared she would leave her.

This is much different from the characters I wrote who had a threesome. The initial two were kinda friends before that, but... well it was an odd relationship because the guy (Elias) wanted the girl (Aqorm) mainly for conversation and company but wasn't really into sex or family. The other girl (Lilith) was a horny demon in both senses of the word, and didn't really care about conversations. Aqorm loves them both as if they're parts of a whole person. But it's so screwed up, that I can't feel like the first one even gets much in the way of conversation after that.  Things got so awkward even though it was consensual on all parties, that there is not much to talk about. And Lilith secretly also hung out with Michael, an angel, but after getting him pregnant ( ??? don't ask), she kinda wants nothing to do with him, because Michael is an andel and all, so about four people in the group aren't close.  Meanwhile, the lesbian couple (Azrael and Anideshi) who are never written as having sex at all are still joined at the hip, the main heroes (Ambrosia and Nevras) are still doing okay aside from a whole trust issue involving time travel and kinda hiding a previous breakup, and the token villainous heroes (Yazim Jianne and Selqui) are having depraved adventures too. I guess the moral of the story is polygamy/adultery is harder to write a good ending for.
Title: Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on May 03, 2019, 06:53:59 am
Okay, May...? I think you're being a tad too understandable...? 😆

And you MUST remember... Maytag was all fine about multiple extra-relationship flings... it was Bern who wanted a commitment.  It must be much harder on Maytag to to give up her free spirited sexual encounters {though admittedly... in her adventures she has not had much temptation 'Though I'm sure she got a charge out of straddling Lehm!  ;D'} then it would be for Bern to accept her own desires for sexcual encounters outside their relationship.  Bern's feelings for Polly were supressed for years ... and when suddenly Polly ...lovely Polly {not-so-purebread  ;)} was flung back into her life Bern could not deny to herself her deep affection for Polly.
Title: Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
Post by: SirBananaPie on May 06, 2019, 12:36:04 am
I love how much detail went into drawing their eyes. I know this has been the case for a long time by now, but I just noticed it again. :-)
Title: Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
Post by: UmberIsSexy on May 07, 2019, 05:00:24 am
Now here I find it hard not to feel bad for May.  She is forgiving and accepting, but Bern isn't, so she could never have the open relationship her heart desired...but now Bernadette has "cheated", as she would define it, and Maytag is completely accepting, because she knows that this is a natural human thing, and doesn't reflect on Bern's love for her.

UUURRRGGG!!!

But, I'm sure Maytag would say that she chose her present situation willingly, and doesn't blame Bern in the least.

What a saint!!!

Edit: By the way nice twist Brion...did anyone else think that Bern had slept with Polly in the jail cell?  I just remember thinking it would have been almost impossible for anyone, even Bern, to resist the urge, given how long they were locked up together.
Title: Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
Post by: SirBananaPie on May 08, 2019, 12:55:10 am
They slept with each other, because some rich person paid them to do it as an alternative to Polly getting raped for 20 days (or rather: for 19 more days).
Title: Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
Post by: UmberIsSexy on May 08, 2019, 07:01:52 am
Oh, I only vaguely remember that...have to go back and look.

That's quite different. :-\
Title: Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on May 08, 2019, 02:49:58 pm
May's hardly a saint.  I remember Crest calling her on one of her affairs where she was all like "no big deal."

But she is a sweetie, even though she has some spotty bits in the past. 

As for everything not being alright, Bern has no idea.  Crest and Regina are emotional wrecks, Suspie is kinda stone-washed, and there's probably gonna be issues because Bern probably will always have some feelings for Polly (or vice versa).  And then there's whatever's going on with the demons or whatever is guarding areas like the Pit, and the whole computer program of magic.  There's probably quite a bit to worry about long term, it's just not as tense as last chapter. 

...Holy crap, when did the Pit chapter begin? Because it's dated 2017, and it's now 2019.  Hold up.  Three times a week, that roughly 20 weeks per chapter, right? So it takes about a year to do about 3 chapters?
Title: Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on May 09, 2019, 06:45:32 am
Edit: By the way nice twist Brion...did anyone else think that Bern had slept with Polly in the jail cell?  I just remember thinking it would have been almost impossible for anyone, even Bern, to resist the urge, given how long they were locked up together.

Like YEAH!!! Who could resist all that sweet-polly pure-goth in a jail cell!  Even without the chains and whips... lol!  :-*

'Let the sexy-times BEGIN!' {snicker}
Title: Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
Post by: UmberIsSexy on May 10, 2019, 01:21:30 am
Edit: By the way nice twist Brion...did anyone else think that Bern had slept with Polly in the jail cell?  I just remember thinking it would have been almost impossible for anyone, even Bern, to resist the urge, given how long they were locked up together.

Like YEAH!!! Who could resist all that sweet-polly pure-goth in a jail cell!  Even without the chains and whips... lol!  :-*

'Let the sexy-times BEGIN!' {snicker}

Yeah exactly haha!  Myself, I would be seriously distraught and uncomfortable almost every minute.  Even not having any time alone would drive me nuts though...
Title: Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
Post by: UmberIsSexy on May 10, 2019, 05:39:17 am
May's hardly a saint.  I remember Crest calling her on one of her affairs where she was all like "no big deal."


Maybe saint was a poor choice of words...but given her beliefs (and also her conviction to live by her beliefs, to walk her talk), she is...honorable? in her own way, though not exactly in the conventional way.  She treats people fairly, mostly without judgement, and doesn't hold any double standards, no matter what others may do to try to harm her or what (possibly unfair) standards others hold her to.  I also believe she also genuinely respects and honors all people equally.  It's not an easy position to stand in.
Title: Re: Chapter 52: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on May 10, 2019, 10:23:44 pm
Yeah, May is a pretty neat and sweet woman.. I'd love to just have her as a friend.  To know someone despite all your faults will just accept you as You.. and try to be the best friend they can... no judgements.. no artificial standards for you to live up to.