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Comics Discussion => Flipside Discussion => Topic started by: SirBananaPie on October 22, 2018, 07:21:17 am

Title: Did the anti magic sphere fail to completely counter Suspiria?
Post by: SirBananaPie on October 22, 2018, 07:21:17 am
I've been thinking for a while about the scene where Moby snapped at Suspiria and Crest and pushed them both over the edge, and the more I think about it, the less sense it makes. She sounds out of character, like a bitchy teenager, probably just like how Suspiria remembered her from school. She could of course theoretically still be that way, but there are a bunch of reasons why this isn't normal for her under the circumstances:

1. Isn't she a Phalanx soldier? Don't these people have professional emotional training to deal with difficult situations, e.g. staying focused in the face of death, but also staying forcused during a mission, if not all the time?
2. They knew that they were powerless against Suspiria. But they went on this all but hopeless mission anyway, with one goal: Support Crest to give him an opportunity to talk to Suspiria and maaaaaybe she won't kill everyone. So, what are you not supposed to do? Yell at Suspiria. And what else are you not supposed to do? Yell at Crest. And what else are you not supposed to do? Lose your shit while being inside a dangerous room that nobody was supposed to enter, ever, while also being in the presence of Melter and Bloody Mary. Did Moby realize any of that? Nope.
3. Why did nobody stop her and make her regain focus until shy Regina dared to speak up? Regina's not Phalanx, right? I don't thinkg that Phalanx training makes you stupid. I prefer to think Suspiria bent reality so much that nobody was able to stop her in time?

Thus I can only conclude that the anti magic sphere didn't cancel out all of Suspiria's influence. Maybe for Crest, because he was holding the thing, and maybe for Regina, because she held it right before (so the reality-bending had to start over for her), and Melter held it the day before (and possibly Mary, too) but not for anyone else.

I know I keep making fun of the Phalanx and the Conclave for looking like incompetent buffoons almost all the time (except for Qtalda), but Moby outclassed everything I've read so far by a rather large margin and nobody had the sense to intervene. That can't be right. I mean, until now the stupidest thing I've read a Phalanx do so far was Glyph eating the poisoned sandwich before he made out with Bernadette in the pool. I believe that an elite soldier should've been taught about poisons and how to analyze food, but that was merely a rather large mistake that can happen if the guy prefers to analyze women over analyzing anything else. I guess he was also caught off-guard by the fact that the hotel seemed like a nice and safe place. A stupid and big mistake, but nowhere near the mistake of losing focus in the worst danger zone they've ever been in.

So, what does everyone else think? Was Moby herself or not? The sphere likely comes from that continent where level 6 sorcerers are relatively common and the thin man should be rich enough to afford something of adequate power. Did Melter analyze Suspiria's power by himself or did the thin man paint the answer and Suspiria has gone beyond level 7 by now?
Title: Re: Did the anti magic sphere fail to completely counter Suspiria?
Post by: SirBananaPie on November 12, 2018, 12:17:29 pm
Nobody? Not even Moby-fan sunphoenix? This is the thread where I contemplate that it might not have been her fault that she screwed up the mission in the worst and stupidest way possible.
Title: Re: Did the anti magic sphere fail to completely counter Suspiria?
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on November 15, 2018, 11:56:02 pm
It's just easier to call her a *****. I tried to explain things, but mostly everyone froze cuz she went way off the rails.Everything that happened is a result of her screwing up with handling Suspiria.
Title: Re: Did the anti magic sphere fail to completely counter Suspiria?
Post by: UmberIsSexy on November 16, 2018, 12:19:55 am
Well she was reacting to someone's death, which she blamed on Suspiria, so it's understandable that she got emotional.  However, I agree with everything you said about the Phalanx members.  They're more like teen titans go than a well-trained magical swat team.  Kin did also seem pretty disciplined I suppose, in addition to Qtalda.
Title: Re: Did the anti magic sphere fail to completely counter Suspiria?
Post by: SirBananaPie on November 20, 2018, 11:41:04 pm
Okay, that is an easier explanation indeed, but I am willing to give her the benefit of a doubt, because if you turn out to be right, then all the things I listed above make her and the others look SO bad. Until now I enjoyed saying that the Phalanx is just there to get worfed, but this screw-up would go above and beyond anything I dared to expect them to fail at.

Hahaha, I love the Teen Titans Go comparison. That seems to be all the Phalanx have left without the Conclave and without Kin (except for Qtalda of course).
Title: Re: Did the anti magic sphere fail to completely counter Suspiria?
Post by: SirBananaPie on November 22, 2018, 12:41:28 am
Also note that the anti magic sphere broke after the monster tilted the ground, so if the monster was created by Suspiria, then she did it despite the sphere being there. Therefore, she might've influenced Moby and the gang, too.
Title: Re: Did the anti magic sphere fail to completely counter Suspiria?
Post by: sunphoenix on November 26, 2018, 06:51:25 am
OH Sorry...! I never saw this... hang on reading all the posts now! :)


Ok..some ideas..not in any particular bear with me..

1) The Conclave & Phalanx - I never got the feeling they were a 'military' operation.  I think that the Conclave pretty much a bunch of stuffy old anarchists more concerned about the politics of policing the study and prestige of their wizard school were too involved in the day to day running of the school and social jockeying for possition in their tigh little elite band to be bothered with going out into the world and dealing with magical conundrums or even threats...but they were the people that all the mundanes looked too as a Master Magicians, but no one "really" wanted them to come down from 'ON HIGH' and actually police magic in the world... way too much like giving them control of everything..which I'm sure the Nobility and rich merchants would not really want the Conclave looking into too closely how they use magic to keep, and acquire their wealth.  SSo... the Phalanx Teams were organized not as police or a military more of a private magical investigation teams.  These Phalanx teams were simply made of of volunteer wizards who attended the magic school willing to devote their time to investigating magical disputes, mysteries or threats.  The Phalanx Teams have the sanction of the Conclave to give them a level of authority but it purely a public-relations thing.  You see the Conclave does not want the responsibility of doing it themselves unless some real threat presents itself and they 'sanction' the Phalanx teams to say see we are doing something about it investigating your petty mostly unimportant mundane issues if real magic is involved.  Also sanctioning the Phalanx teams allows the conclave a scapegoat for when things get screwed up they can blame the Phalanx teams and not accept the responsibility of their complacency in the first place.  Also granting their sanction allows them the freedom of micro-managing and demanding results without taking up their personal time and efforts on away form the research and magical studies that interest them.  So the Conclave gets to have its cake and eat it too!

So that really means that YES the Phalanx teams are basically Teen Titan's groups that petition for sanction by the Conclave and the Conclave puts on a veneer of "How Important and Dedicated" applicants need to be ..tested and screened before Conclave sanction as a Phalanx Team...all to hide the fact THEY don't want to lift a finger to do any of that ~ 'in the field' work away from far more important things; like their internal jockeying for who is the most powerful wizard on the conclave.

Now THIS may not be true.. but its the impression I've been left with about the Conclave and their Phalanx teams.

2) Moby - I think there are many reasons why Moby lost it and ranted at Suspiria. 

One ~ one of her close contacts on the Phalanx team killed herself and responsible or not.. Moby blamed Suspiria for it when she learned that Suspiira's powers were enough to alter reality. 

Two ~ The Phalanx ARE NOT professional anythings!  They are as far as I can tell volunteer spellcasters who get sanction from the conclave to investigate and handle magical disputes, mysteries or threats...trusting that their individual magical powers are sufficient to handle the situation...but none of them are formally trained as combat spellcasters the Conclave does not have a military branch.. that is not how they run the magical school.  Its basically a liberal arts college with spellcasting as a focus for those with the talent to 'discover' their gifts.  So it's perfectly reasonable that Phalanx members are not really trained in dealing with stressful emotions or moral conundrums beyond controlling their magical abilities.. and have no law enforcement regimen to fall back on...they are not a law enforcement organization and certainly NOT a military!

Three ~ Oh yeah.. it would be Sooo EASY to blame Suspiria for Moby trying to basically rape Crest 'she was altering reality and made me do it'... but honestly.. I'm not entirely buying that.  I think the answer is simpler... Moby is a Hottie.. she knows it, she sees it in the reactions men and women have to her.. she has NEVER been rejected.  The simple fact is she saw something in Crest.. his nobility, his intelligence, his forthrightness.. his faith that things can be better tomorrow.. his tenderness; Moby saw that he really cared and that his heart was motivated by love ~ not selfish personal interest.  Crest did not see Moby as a object to be used for his own satisfaction nor anyone else and that REALLY touched her heart... deeper and more profoundly than she realized or was willing to admit ~ Even to herself!!  But Moby is damaged.. she has issues... and rejection is NOT something she was emotionally or even potentially mentally prepared to accept!  Yeah.. everyone was acting strange so perhaps a little push and her own personal desires and low self-esteem nudged her into doing something she would not normally think she was capable of...especially when it is easier to assume that people are as shallow as she is.. and has not been proven wrong in her opinion upon how men usually treat her.  Remember she also is a wizard and magic is a warping of reality by the qualia ~ most people can only warp reality in limited or very focused ways.. self-delusion can be a powerful distraction even for non-magically talented people..look at Bern's father.  So maybe it all comes down to the fact that Moby really likes what she sees in Crest and was frustrated that finding a man with his admirable qualities forces her to question her assumptions about men in-general and even about herself something she Really does not want to do and psychologically she wanted Crest to be just like all the other men so she did not have to question her paradigm of reality, question her nihilistic views.  People can be very good at fooling themselves and being forced to look in the mirror long and hard at yourself is some times unbearable.  I think she went a little crazy briefly..perhaps Suspiria's powers made the situation more possible.. but I think the emotions were indeed all hers.  Moby's value system of her self-worth in relation to what she Thinks she needs to feel alive, maybe some small distraction from the lingering daily sadness and loneliness she claims to feel ARE VERY Skewed!  She's unhappy and lonely and does not know what to do about it but the THINKS mindless Sex is a way to distract her from that emptiness she feels. She claims not to believe in love..but honestly I think TRUE love is just what she is longing for!  Many times what people want or think they want is not what they need or really want..they delude themselves not understanding what THEY personally need to really be happy or possibly not even knowing that they are unhappy.  As I said Moby has ...issues. 

I feel sorry for her.. not pity.. but truly feel sorry for her sadness and loneliness...

Four ~ she ranted at Suspiria... because with all the things Moby had been inspired to do with Crest.. throwing herself at him and then trying to take from him what she thinks she desires and needs by force ~ because of how skewed her value system and self-esteem are.. she sees Crest as this wonder {a person who truly loves someone}.. and its something SHE wants deep inside..someone who loves her with such truth and fidelity.  Suspiria angers her because she feels Suspiria is cheating making Crest ~ this wondrous guy, who if not for Suspiria might actually be with her!  Moby says she does not believe in love, but she does not realize that is what she wants, she does not feel worthy of it and so she seeks to reinforce her disbelief in love by proving to herself that all men are the same... only good for a roll in bar and then gone, THAT WAY she does not have to look into the mirror and she her own shallowness..cause "everybody's the same anyways."

So these are my points of view.. they are not necessarily the truth..but they seem likely to me.
Title: Re: Did the anti magic sphere fail to completely counter Suspiria?
Post by: SirBananaPie on December 03, 2018, 05:50:52 am
Ok, wow, those are quite a bunch of interesting points. Especially the jealousy towards Suspiria is something I hadn't thought of before, even though Moby is all but upfront about it, saying that she couldn't help herself and then saying that Suspiria loves him. I guess it's because I never paid all that much attention to her, because cold, bitchy gothic types aren't my thing, especially since her very first appearance in the comic was SO cold: (and the following page)
But if she gets to have character development, then I'm fine with it and might even like her eventually.

But I still think Suspiria had an influence on how the Phalanx acted, because the group knew how extremely outclassed they were, and when one of them committed suicide and another took his own eye, that should've been a red flag to anyone with survival instincts and/or at least half a working brain. I mean, they took heavy losses before the confrontation even started. If I were in their shoes I would've run the hell away and hide under a rock.
Which brings me straight to why I believe that there must've been some sort of training: The courage to stand your ground in the face of death. I would've been just like Crest when Moby pushed him over the edge.
But everyone - trained or not - should've felt some degree of terror and hopelessness in the face of suicide and reality-warping and Mary being back, at least since they had the sphere. And not casually exchange new information inside the pit room while being surrounded by potential enemies. Thus I believe that Suspiria was more powerful than the sphere.

When Moby threw herself at Crest (again) I didn't think it was all Suspiria either. That scene really did look like only a small push was required to spread her legs. 8)