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Comics Discussion => Flipside Discussion => Topic started by: SAGG on July 02, 2018, 03:08:31 pm

Title: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: SAGG on July 02, 2018, 03:08:31 pm
So, the Thin Man has a major role here? Should be interesting....
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: Kiran on July 07, 2018, 04:59:59 am
I'm more sad that this is another Crest group chapter, 3rd in a row...
For some reason it got boring for me, seeing Vennice killed off for drama sake didn't help either.

Maybe Brion got bored with May and Bern and Crest became the MC for real?
:P
It's really strange that last time we saw May it was around 1 year of our real life time ago (august 2017), and Bern almost around 2 years ago (september 2016). And this chapter content means that next half year of Flipside updates will be again all about Crest storyline.
Where's the variety of the 3 people stories being separated as it was at the beginning to change perspective?
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: SAGG on July 07, 2018, 08:50:59 pm
The devil--? Did someone just pass gas?! 😆
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on July 11, 2018, 08:10:09 pm
Quote
I'm more sad that this is another Crest group chapter, 3rd in a row...
For some reason it got boring for me, seeing Vennice killed off for drama sake didn't help either.

Maybe Brion got bored with May and Bern and Crest became the MC for real?
:P
It's really strange that last time we saw May it was around 1 year of our real life time ago (august 2017), and Bern almost around 2 years ago (september 2016). And this chapter content means that next half year of Flipside updates will be again all about Crest storyline.
Where's the variety of the 3 people stories being separated as it was at the beginning to change perspective?

They're doing it by character development. Bern we had her get through the whole Arena deal, May had to get out of the Dark Cell, Crest has to face the Pit.

All said, I love this page. It kinda reminds me of one of the pages of Elfquest, and there is a very poster-quality feel to the last panel.
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: Brion Foulke on July 12, 2018, 12:14:10 am
I'm more sad that this is another Crest group chapter, 3rd in a row...

I understand.  But I kinda had no choice but to do it that way.  We're pushing through the separate storylines and we're almost at the end of them... from then on, it's going to be one storyline with all the characters united.  So, please bear with it a little bit longer!

All said, I love this page. It kinda reminds me of one of the pages of Elfquest, and there is a very poster-quality feel to the last panel.

That's cool you think so... Elfquest was actually the very first comic to really get my interest, back when I was a kid!  And was a big part of what drew me towards manga.
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on July 12, 2018, 08:17:05 am
Oh YEAH!  I'm with Ms bulmabriefs on this.. love the story progression.. have not been bored with with Crest is doing to the least!  Like how his character has developed.. though I wish he'd been more decisive in his feelings about Suspiria... perhaps he will get a chance to redress that soon.

And ... oh Crap.. they are all in the crapper now..WTF?  What IS the pit... is it sentient or does a malevolent intelligence reside within or control it?  Whatever it is some form of reality manipulation or perception modification is clearly within its power.  If the whole keep/castle is under its control like this.. this could really be bad for everyone...not just those currently threatened by its rapaciousness.

And YES, ElfQuest is my most favorite storylines.. and recently the Final Quest ended and I'm saddened by not just the end of the story... but how it ended.  I will Howl for the lost all the rest of my days as well...
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on July 13, 2018, 04:12:09 am
I actually have The Complete ElfQuest Volume 1. I was going to get volume two, etc. But then I realized that it was a self-contained story (the story to find a new Holt, and the realization that their clan, not a location, was the Holt; the story of life, death, and a sort of extended life with those ancient elves; but more importantly, the story of characters, of Skywise, (the human shaman), Cutter, Leetah, and even Rayek, Bearclaw and Treestump, and the depraved Winnowill and Door) plus I was poor.

I like the whole grand story, heavy with metaphor. I think I know what the Pit is, but I'll let Brion tell you (hint: it has something to do with depression). But I also think it might be a subjective metaphor (represents different stuff to different ppl).

If theyare supposed to get together, the anti-magic crystal being gone kinda puts a damper on getting past Eye's aura.
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: Brion Foulke on July 13, 2018, 09:08:45 am
And YES, ElfQuest is my most favorite storylines.. and recently the Final Quest ended and I'm saddened by not just the end of the story... but how it ended.  I will Howl for the lost all the rest of my days as well...

Didn't know about the "Final Quest."  I only read up to and including Kings of the Broken Wheel.  The original 20 issue comic (first 4 volumes of the graphic novels) are still my favorite.
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on July 13, 2018, 07:51:21 pm
Didn't know about the "Final Quest."  I only read up to and including Kings of the Broken Wheel.  The original 20 issue comic (first 4 volumes of the graphic novels) are still my favorite.

OH MY Dear Brion.. there is Soooo much more to the story than just that... and it ALL Good.. look further... there are many more quests after that MANY MORE!
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: UmberIsSexy on July 18, 2018, 07:21:02 am
This pit and that guy are very scary.  I'm nervous for everyone.

What did Mary puke up?
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on July 18, 2018, 10:35:17 am
This WRONG on oh sooo many levels!

Melter is being heroic... Mary is defending and protecting people!... Crest has the opportunity to truly be heroic.. and he goes catatonic..

Thing in the pit.. Ewwww.. 'runaway, Runaway, RUNAWAY!!!'
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: Caffinator on July 18, 2018, 11:15:25 am
If they are supposed to get together, the anti-magic crystal being gone kinda puts a damper on getting past Eye's aura.

I believe it wouldn't have made a difference. I'd be willing to bet that Thin Man has had access to such devices and tried them on Dark Cell before. Eye's curse is probably one of the strongest magical forces any of these characters has encountered. Speaking of which, if Suspira's magic level is currently "off the charts", I wonder if she has enough power to at least suppress Eye's curse if not dispel it entirely. Certainly food for thought!

These last few panels really portray to the reader a feeling of chaos and confusion that matches how everyone but Melter appears to be reacting. And doing so without resorting to a bunch of indistinguishable motion-blur mess is probably the most impressive aspect. Really enjoying the story Brion!
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on July 18, 2018, 11:46:01 am
Her power isn't off the charts. It's just out of control. Melter implied there were even dissolving tests for such power, meaning there are in fact "charts" for it.

I honestly think there is alot of stuff that is different from what we've been told previously. Like for one, demons do exist (and this creep here is one of them), and two, probably curses aren't actually curses at all but some sort of human mutation to demonic energy.  Eye might in fact be able to control her power. There was another thing I thought about in regards to this. What happens when her powers meet Bern's swords? Do they suck it up? Or does it overcome her?
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: Deuce on July 20, 2018, 10:56:12 am
That is some Junji Ito shit right there, holy hell.
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on July 20, 2018, 12:31:38 pm
Get lost, jerk. You're just like all the others.

Don't forget the guy who wrote Berserk (Kentaro Miura). Some of that stuff, especially the Apostles kinda this much.
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on July 21, 2018, 02:25:32 am
AWE HELLL NOOO!!!  :)
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: MaronaPossessed on July 21, 2018, 09:50:12 am
"I just wanna have some fun"

Nope nope nope nope hurry up Melter that's enough fuck for the day
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: SAGG on July 22, 2018, 10:08:56 pm
"Yeah, uh, sure we'll join you. Just let me get refreshed first..." (runs off) 😆
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on July 23, 2018, 04:41:55 pm
Hey Brion, we should do a vote.

Like, how many people want this chapter to go totally Grimdark, with everyone dying?

Not that I do, but I think it would get ppl involved and stuff. Too many people expecting Crest to survive cuz he's hero, we need some added tension, right?  :o
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on July 24, 2018, 10:11:32 am
I just don't want moby hurt, indecisive crest has earned a few lumps in my opinion.
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: Brion Foulke on July 25, 2018, 04:44:54 pm
OH MY Dear Brion.. there is Soooo much more to the story than just that... and it ALL Good.. look further... there are many more quests after that MANY MORE!

Yeah, I figured.  I should probably try to get back into it one of these days!

These last few panels really portray to the reader a feeling of chaos and confusion that matches how everyone but Melter appears to be reacting. And doing so without resorting to a bunch of indistinguishable motion-blur mess is probably the most impressive aspect. Really enjoying the story Brion!

Thanks!

Hey Brion, we should do a vote.  Like, how many people want this chapter to go totally Grimdark, with everyone dying?

Haha, yes you can all feel free to vote your opinions!  That said, the chapter might go grimdark whether you want it or not!  Or maybe it won't, who knows!
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on July 25, 2018, 07:31:35 pm
Elfquest.com has free scans, all except Final Quest. They're tiny though!

http://elfquest.com/read/digitalEQ.html

I'm liking that whole whistle scene, reminds me of the Abhorsen series. The whole bells thing.

 
Uh oh, don't give the author ideas, I guess!  :o

Update:

Looks like the only way anyone can survive is if Crest uses his sword. I wonder...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4utCMzu3hCg
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: UmberIsSexy on August 08, 2018, 07:37:22 am
OoooooOOO!  Crest gonna do a Kin here?
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on August 08, 2018, 07:58:33 am
YES! Crest is going to engage ~ finally... let's hope he chooses wisely..
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on August 08, 2018, 10:43:44 pm
Probably not.  ;D

I'm not convinced there is a "right choice." Everyone is in danger from this guy. He needs to save the musician, the other jester Regina, Moby, Glyph, his gf, and himself. And honestly , the only way everyone can get out is if they set aside their jealousy (I know they're all jeally for Crest) and whatever else is up, even if they don't get along, and work together against the common problem. The Pit. Either that, or everyone fails.
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: UmberIsSexy on August 09, 2018, 09:56:55 pm
I'm wondering about the interaction between Suspiria and the pit...whether that is in play here at all.  I mean, we don't really know at all what the pit is right?
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on August 10, 2018, 09:05:54 pm
If bards in D&D had those kinds of anti-evil songs, everyone would take the class.

Yay, for morale boost! Also, don't die...

Ummm, remember how he's been using Bloody Mary clones?

He seems able to bounce back from injury like crazy and likes to munch on people. Also has sharp claws. This sounds familiar...

The pit itself seems to shatter at least lesser magical items (http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=3645), and add powers (Mega-manning) to Mister Creepy Priest.

They need to save everyone at all costs because anti-bards really suck. But especially save Suspiria because reality warping powers would be a bad thing. Which reminds me...
http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=3281
 http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=3295
http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=3517

From what we know, Bloody Mary has died numerous times to the pit, and it's safe to say Suspiria has died at least once.

Getting a Bravely Default vibe here.

  But don't get depressed or anything. This is super-happy time cuz good morale.


Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on August 15, 2018, 01:09:44 am
I'm not thinking any anti-bard is in Buzz's future... sponge and squeegee... maybe...  He just got the equivalent of the magical buzzsaw-woodchipper!  They're gonna need a doggy-bag for what's left of him if the pit leaves even that much behind.  Not sure if the pit possess.. or just devours and spits out only facsimiles of those it consumes?  Perhaps {likely} it feed on his innate magical power and in doing so exsanguinated his magic form every cell of his body.  But if what we know is true about magic.. does that mean the pit consumes the Qualia nanites?

What really IS the 'Pit'...where does it go?
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on August 15, 2018, 06:02:57 am
Oh no, I meant all power goes to the creepy priest dude. Like he gets to demoralize them or something.

Aside from that, two things really worry me, that the pit might be rising, or that what sprayed on them... isn't blood. 
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on August 15, 2018, 12:15:36 pm
They ALL gonna need some serious therapy...if they get out of this...  I feel worse for poor Moby! 
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on August 16, 2018, 08:41:42 pm
They ALL gonna need some serious therapy...if they get out of this...  I feel worse for poor Moby!

It's an actual rule of fiction. There's no therapists.

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ThereAreNoTherapists
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: Kiran on August 21, 2018, 07:33:29 am
So this pit turned into big blender/meat processor?
Ouch.
In the end Vennice got better fate than Buzz as endings go for sides.
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on August 25, 2018, 05:01:34 am
It's a garbage collector sink thingy.

If I had to say, I'd say it's mostly her depression. She wants to kill herself and pretty sure her friends are untrustworthy now.

Remember, the number is 1-800-273-8255.

In term of what seem like the natural defenses of the pit, probably turning from flat ground into a pit (usually enough to make most people fall to their doom), eating artifacts, and priestmonster that keeps coming back. The whole spikes popping out of the wall, the fell of rising tide, that the guy was able to pop up from nowhere and eat the stretcher bed, the skeletons, and the blender probably not.

For one, some of these things contradict certain things. For instance, if you have a blender, you probably don't have skeletons, since the blender grinds stuff up. And it seemed like the pit was more a darkness that swallowed stuff up, not a grindinv machine. It was more about negativity and not supposed to be about punishment. And then there's the clear contradiction of the wall spike being active while the music was melting some faces. That pretty much reveals a second force immune to the music.

The question is, does Crest wanna talk to her and try to cheer her up, or is Melter wrong about it being a bad idea to put her in the pit and things will be better off without her?
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: SAGG on September 06, 2018, 08:21:28 pm
In my opinion, this is the most graphic Flipside arc, and that's saying a lot. No offense, because the tension is obviously very high here... 😋
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on September 07, 2018, 10:59:07 am
...does it make me a total perv and sicko ..that I find Moby even sexier spattered with a bit of blood? :)
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on September 08, 2018, 12:58:54 pm
Why it's important to pay attention to details.

May's hand that got regrown, was done by "mirroring". But what about Glyph's legs (and whatever else got gobbled by the Pit)? If he does survive, he'll be a complete wreck. I'm not sure they'll be able to regrow what he's got, so they'd have to do a Six Million Dollar Man thing on this guy just to get him to walk right. 
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on September 11, 2018, 11:18:45 am
Yep, Glyph...soon to be only a head, left arm and a few right hand finger-tips.  Not much to mirror with that!

The Question is... 'Is this all a horrid Dream sequence that Only Crest is experiencing?'
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on September 12, 2018, 09:40:42 pm
And now for another graphic blood-splosion of viscera, limbs and crimson all over the mostly naked and shapely Moby... oh.. and one shredded eyepatch....
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on September 14, 2018, 10:57:11 pm
AAaaannnd ~ "Chunky Salsa!"
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: SAGG on September 16, 2018, 03:20:47 pm
Goodbye Glyph. I hardly knew you....  :(
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: SirBananaPie on September 17, 2018, 03:19:44 am
I really like this scene a lot, because it hit me so differently compared to Suspiria's outburst. You see, Moby once again couldn't control her emotions as if she didn't go through any professional Phalanx training whatsoever, and pushed Suspiria over the edge instead of realizing that our precious glass cannon needed support and comfort or else! So I felt really really bad for poor Suspiria and I'm still hoping against hope that she can somehow return.
But Moby can go to hell! And everyone else who didn't try to stop her can go with her (i.e. everyone besides Crest and Regina). Nobody had any sense of danger whatsoever even though they've been inspecting one of the most dangerous places in the world. So of course they got Worfed really hard from the beginning to the end. At least Crest realized that he was in way over his head after the sphere unworfed him from a dumb Phalanx person back to a sensible human being.

Thus I'm currently just relaxing and enjoying the show instead of being caught up in the intense drama that's happening.  ;D
Let's find out who's next to be torn to pieces!

As a side note:
Does the Phalanx not have access to Anti Magic spheres and other convenient gadgets that just might come in handy for inspecting - oh I don't know - only one of the most dangerous and highly magical places on this side of the world?
A scouting/scrying spell maybe? Or Q'Talda's clone spell? But hey, who needs to learn from another's experience on how to survive if you're an elite soldier, right? :P
Also if I were in charge of such a prison then the very bricks of all floors, walls and ceilings would be made of "Strong Anti-Magic sphere"-material. Or as much as the budget allows. Maybe find a way to suck away their energy... wait. Is that what the pit was originally for?

edit: Ok I forgot the walls are indeed heavily anti-sorcery. http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=3273
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: SirBananaPie on September 17, 2018, 08:22:53 am
Quote from: bulmabriefs144
The question is, does Crest wanna talk to her and try to cheer her up,
Wait, that's still an option?

AAaaannnd ~ "Chunky Salsa!"
Dude, your posts are hilarious! ;D
I admit that there is a sexiness to bloody Moby. That's all she seems to be good for.  ::) Though personally I find Bloody Mary and Suspiria way hotter, because they're super strong but their personalities are so adorable. Moby's polar opposite, basically.  8)
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: SirBananaPie on September 17, 2018, 11:37:11 am
Oooooh, page 33 just went up! ^^
Yes yes oh god yes kill her kill her!!! ;D ;D ;D

I don't understand why Melter is just floating there, letting Shade holding him despite her losing strength. Can't they just fly up and out? If so, then he has some serious balls for staying in there anyway. And why doesn't he cling to a wall to reduce the burden on Shade? Such a weird guy.
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on September 18, 2018, 12:58:37 pm
Quote from: bulmabriefs144
The question is, does Crest wanna talk to her and try to cheer her up,
Wait, that's still an option?


I know she went all "stony faced", but there's a good chance she can still see and hear. The sword itself may also have an impact. We do see Crest reaching for it a few scenes earlier. The tone of this is sorta like 3rd phase of Dark Cell but for us and for most of a chapter though. Here's hope someone does something.
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: Daikun on September 19, 2018, 03:11:17 am
Is there a way we can get these two latest pages (32-33) as one? It really has that double-page spread feel.
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: MaronaPossessed on September 19, 2018, 09:51:28 am
Crest! About time!
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on September 19, 2018, 01:24:41 pm
YEAH CREST!!! I've Been routing for you the whole time!  Show that hero stuff.. I KNOW your made of!!! :)

~ This made my day! Thx Brion!!!  :-*
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: SirBananaPie on September 20, 2018, 01:28:01 am
That sad-faced skeleton is so hilarious! ;D

@Bulma:
Oh right the healing sword. If it can counter Death&Decay, a stoner surely is no problem.
Interesting that the skeleton doesn't get healed by it. Now to find out if he's going to heal Moby with it. Hopefully he stabs her in the eye just for the lulz.

I don't understand the tone thing. You mean as in inevitable peril? Because for me the tone in phase 3 had a cold finality to it, while the current scene is full of hot action. Also gore.
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on September 20, 2018, 02:30:02 pm
That sad-faced skeleton is so hilarious! ;D

@Bulma:
Oh right the healing sword. If it can counter Death&Decay, a stoner surely is no problem.
Interesting that the skeleton doesn't get healed by it. Now to find out if he's going to heal Moby with it. Hopefully he stabs her in the eye just for the lulz.

I don't understand the tone thing. You mean as in inevitable peril? Because for me the tone in phase 3 had a cold finality to it, while the current scene is full of hot action. Also gore.

I actually totally called it. It seemed like that sword is like Sesshomaru's Tenseiga. Heal the living, hurt the undead/demons.

The pervasive despair, I mean. The feeling that we, the viewers are watching something hopeless. Of course, if Phase 3 is any guide, not really the case.

The action is more active, yeah, but the whole deal where super-cool stuff happens, but nope, fails. Buzz and Glyph being all heroic are two good examples. Then it was Melter actually losing grip. Crest is the first guy so far that succeeded in doing something awesome with nothing poking out and impaling him... (here's hoping that thought isn't interrupted)
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on September 23, 2018, 09:53:28 pm
I know its a drama thing but I'd really dislike it if Crest's first forey as a hero he gets 'Worfed'... as a storyteller having a main character tell a terrified supporting character "Its alright, everythings gong to be ok"...just so you can kill her violently and in the next scene to subvert our expectations is such a LAME and really annoying FAR TOO overused writing trope. 

In fact the whole idea of subverting the expectations of the readers...or in the case of viewers of BADLY WRITTEN STAR WARS Movies ~ is so over used it just pisses the audience the hell off!  Especially, when it undermines character development or sensible story... if all you wanted to do was kill off the female supporting cast character ~ THEN JUST FUCKING DO IT...don't make it the fault of a main character or use it as a tool to slap said main character in the face...especially when said main character has not done anything particularly foolish or unwise when trying to be proactive and heroic... it cheapens the character, unless that is your objective from the get go.  Don't screw with your audience!

Poor Asuka Langley, in the Neon Genesis Evangellion Anime' Series gets this treatment all the time... she is presented as a daring gungho capable fighter...able to handily kick Shinji's butt in anything physical outside her Eva...but the moment she is put into battle and seems to know how to use her Eva and wants to do so.. she gets constantly 'Worffed' and beat the hell up only for Shinji who does not want to be in the Eva and does not know what he's doing to save the day.  Its frustrating not only to the character Asuka... but doubly so to the audience who is being told one thing and shown another.  In the case of NGE there is a story plot to this... but it is often used too damned much on the audience.

DON'T build up our hopes for Crest, the Courageous, Compassionate and Honest to become a great contemporary of the Powerful but Gentle Burnadette, and the Wise, Cunning and Selfless Maytag only to continually slap him down... its annoying!~  DON'T WORF CREST!
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: SirBananaPie on September 25, 2018, 07:54:17 am
@Bulma:
I've never seen Inuyasha, so I had to look this one up real quick, but yeah, I guess it's basically like that one.

I kinda wish we could've seen Buzz and Glyph do more. Up until this point I only remember that Glyph was able to see women naked and that he helped outsmarting that lightning rod fighter by using that Anti magic glove he didn't own. This goes for Buzz even more so, who pretty much became Kin's replacement in that regard, i.e. died on his first on-screen mission. ;-)

Btw, I just had a thought: If they're dead now, what happens to Maytag when she starts her own sound show? I totally call that a LOT of people will give her crap for seemingly just waltzing in after the others died.

As for Crest: If the pit is Suspiria's doing (and Melter assumed it's about halfway the case) then replacement-Kin is going to save the day.


@sunphoenix:
Weeeeell, Brion is preparing for a double-page, so we just might see Moby dying a horrible death. But I'll stick to my call that she gets to live a traumatized life.

So far I've seen Crest as someone who mostly shines with his smarts. He started out as an average guy who made the bad decision to cheat at poker to heal his blind mom and he keeps encountering people who are so much stronger than him, so instead of running away he asks Bernadette for training sessions and Suspiria offers to pay for some additional training while Bern is off visiting her father. And he keeps asking himself why he joined this Phalanx mission at all. It's only because they told him "talk to Suspiria, you're the only one she might listen to". He has been in way over his head most of the time, but was still brave enough to move forward. I think that's splendid character development, even if it's still unclear how much was Suspiria's influence.

But I think you're misusing the term "worfed" in case of Crest. Characters get worfed when the viewers are merely told about how awesome they are, but all they ever do is get beaten up by other people in order to establish how bad-ass those people are. You can't establish anyone as a bad-ass villain by having them beat up Crest. Crest has worfed a couple of standard thugs himself by putting his healing/paralyzing blade to practice a bunch of chapters back and that established him as a decent fighter, but nothing too special yet. If he fails here, then that's not worfing him for the sake of the pit, because we already know how powerful the pit is just because Melter admitted to it.
The worfed ones I keep complaining about is the Phalanx and even the Conclave (save Qtalda), because they rarely ever do anything besides getting killed.
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: SAGG on September 26, 2018, 08:14:45 pm
Page 36: 😳
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: SirBananaPie on September 26, 2018, 11:50:26 pm
That's gonna leave a mark.
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: MaronaPossessed on September 27, 2018, 12:36:27 pm
Crest: Everything is gonna be okay!
Dark Pit: nope.avi
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on September 28, 2018, 12:24:45 pm
Page 38 is up! He fell and then the fall lines kinda look like they changed. Flattened out.

http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=3709

Hmmm, it's possible the Dark Pit made an "unauthorized move" so to speak.  It looks like Suspiria may actually care for Crest for reals, at least enough to want him around. Thanks, Suspiria!  :-*

Of course, Moby and the others may still be ummm "voted off the island" so to speak. But it looks like Crest's not dead just yet.

Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on September 28, 2018, 08:12:44 pm
AH LOVE! Yes, I do believe Suspiria has decided... "NOT THIS ONE... HE'S MINE!"  :-*
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on October 01, 2018, 06:49:17 pm
Ah, it turned out to be Regina. She should have retaken the test.
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on October 01, 2018, 07:50:29 pm
Or not bothered to come along at all in the first place!  I mean seriously...what was she going to contribute to stopping power level 7 Suspira?!?!?!?
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on October 01, 2018, 09:14:49 pm
The Pit is actively trying to kill people. Suspiria is making it worse. But notice there's no meat-grinder here. And I'm not convinced she is actively doing this either. Kinda more like when you have a bad mood about getting hired to a company, and sure enough, you wind up doing something to jinx it. Now imagine someone whose negativity causes huge ripples in events.

http://faculty.virginia.edu/perlab/pdf/ZadraCloreEmotPercept.pdf
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: SirBananaPie on October 05, 2018, 12:26:28 am
Moby, why do you say you're no good at flying magic? You have a flying carpet and you did carry yourself AND Crest in search for Suspiria.
Also: Why didn't you bring it with you? Eh, nevermind, the Phalanx in general didn't seem to think about bringing all kinds of magical gadgets with them.
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on October 05, 2018, 12:33:41 pm
Moby, why do you say you're no good at flying magic? You have a flying carpet and you did carry yourself AND Crest in search for Suspiria.
Also: Why didn't you bring it with you? Eh, nevermind, the Phalanx in general didn't seem to think about bringing all kinds of magical gadgets with them.

She's a seamstress. She moves the thread, she doesn't levitate anything. Also, her carpet kinda got eaten.

Welp, that's it. Crest got 51 chapters, but Brion must be doing a Kill Em' All Tomino (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Creator/YoshiyukiTomino) thing. Maybe.
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: Kiran on October 08, 2018, 10:44:28 am
So Ladies and Gentlemen, Crest was saved by literal ASSPULL  :o
 :P

So now I wonder if every other one will get similiar treatment or stay dead, but as I understand the setting and how magic fueled by some nanomachines in reality works, you can't revive a person whose brain died for too long or was minced, so that should be rather impossible.
But then we have Bloody Mary so who knows...
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: SirBananaPie on October 08, 2018, 11:38:37 pm
Alright, things are really starting to look up now.
Next page: Regina or Moby gets stabbed and Melter's friend has to start all over again.

@Bulma: Oh, I didn't know magic was that specific, but I guess it makes enough sense. Was her carpet eaten in this chapter? Because if not then I'd wonder why she didn't have a bunch in reserve.
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: SirBananaPie on October 11, 2018, 12:29:27 am
Okay, now that we know there's no way out the situation looks positively dire. Soooooo... another space-time-rewind, Melter? How about taking Suspiria with you through space-time and letting the "Phalanx" do another "investigation" that'll let them return empty-handed?
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: Brion Foulke on October 12, 2018, 07:01:03 am
So Ladies and Gentlemen, Crest was saved by literal ASSPULL  :o

That sounds gross!
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on October 14, 2018, 05:46:13 am
So Ladies and Gentlemen, Crest was saved by literal ASSPULL  :o

That sounds gross!

I don't know... I'm sure Moby would let Crest 'pull her ass' into just the right position... and enjoy every moment of it!  :-*
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: SirBananaPie on October 16, 2018, 04:44:24 am
Looks like that thing is enjoying itself seeing its food struggle. I don't have any other explanation as to why there aren't any more spikes coming out of the walls or skeletons coming from the pit. There should even be two new ones available by now. 8)

Also if the sword's healing power doesn't work, then maaaaybe paralysis will do something? I mean, if the whole pit is powered by that thing, maybe the rotating blades will stop and everyone can drop down safely and explore it?
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: UmberIsSexy on October 16, 2018, 05:39:17 am
I could be mistaken, but I don't think I've ever seen Crest looking so determined!  He looks like an honest-to-goodness badass!
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: SirBananaPie on October 16, 2018, 09:23:01 am
Yep, ever since that sphere broke and that dude played the song he reverted back to being confident. But I'm still not sure if he reverts to becoming Kin again, because he looks more emotional than in the previous chapters.

Btw: I just remembered that resurrection is a thing in this world (from the prison arc where Bern's not-girlfriend got fatally poisoned), so if the crew goes to the bottom of the pit, maybe they can take home the remains they may or may not find. But meh, they're just Phalanx, so who actually cares? ::)
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: SAGG on October 16, 2018, 01:34:58 pm
I think that thing is bluffing. I think it knows it can be hurt, and is trying to scare Crest into not even trying to fight back....  ;D
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: SirBananaPie on October 17, 2018, 08:10:01 am
If that thing were scared it would've killed Crest as quickly as it did away with Buzz when he dared to play that song that made all the skeletons disappear.

Oh well, I guess we'll soon find out how immortal that thing really is. Let's see if that sword can do this to him: http://www.sandraandwoo.com/2016/08/01/0808-the-divine-comedy-page-6/
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: SAGG on October 17, 2018, 12:38:44 pm
If that thing were scared it would've killed Crest as quickly as it did away with Buzz when he dared to play that song that made all the skeletons disappear.
Or, maybe you should add, just attack immediately without saying a word? Nah, the thing knows that the sword can hurt him, possibly if Crest can strike him in a certain place. He's just hoping Crest won't realize it, or do so accidently....
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: SirBananaPie on October 18, 2018, 03:45:28 am
Do I need to add that? I thought I covered that with my quoted statement. Unless you wanted me to write "killed Crest as quickly or faster than it did away with Buzz".

Whether or not that thing knows, I guess we'll find out. Either way it's not scared of the sword. But if immobility is really going to happen to it, then I don't believe it knows about that ability, because otherwise it would be stupid to let Crest get so close.
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on October 18, 2018, 05:27:53 am
You guys are missing something key here. Brion's work seems big on symbolic imagery. It's not really religious (I think Brion was on record once saying he doesn't believe in gods, meaning anything from a Buddhist or Taoist mindset, to nontraditional belief, to agnostic, to atheist) so much as a sort of powerful imagery.

There are things in our lives that are immortal. What is the first thing coming to mind? Depression. No matter how many times, it always comes back. People with other difficult to solve disorders like mania or hallucinations probably feel the same. 

This is not to say that Crest can solve their problems by therapy. It's saying the same approach works. How do you deal with something immortal? Well for the long term you figure out its source of power. Only something that truly is a deity is self-powered, everything else that is immortal has some Achilles Heel (like they have to feed regularly, or they need people there to remember them, or they're allergic to milk (who knows what movie I'm talking about)). Maybe a final boss type deal, getting rid of the evil thing in our life that won't go away. But for the short term, the solution to such a creature is one of three things: get past it, trap it (sealing is a big option in games like Final Fantasy V), and strip it of its power (the last of these sometimes overlaps with a permanent solution, unless it is able to regain power).

Update: Everyone watch the anime Lost Song. It gives very good insight on what it's like to be immortal.
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on October 19, 2018, 04:35:13 am
Hmmm... what you Might Seem to suggest Bulma, is that the pit is something like a metaphorical nightmare made reality... an immortal fear?

Could that be Suspiria's manifested fear?  That would suggest the best way to defeat it would be for Crest to declare his love for Suspiria and tell her she does not have to be afraid... she is not alone, and she is NOT a monster ~ Wake up!


And oh dear... I'm not sure I can watch... I HATE Slasher flicks... I really do not like to see young women savaged or hurt... let alone butchered... it REALLY Angers that 'old-fashioned' chivalrous hero complex I have inside.

Oh and yeah UmberIsSexy... I agree Crest looks total badass...{ Smile}... I definitely approve of how he's developed!
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: Brion Foulke on October 21, 2018, 01:54:54 pm
See, I told you guys Crest would develop!  But has he developed ENOUGH?  Stay tuned to find out!
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: SirBananaPie on October 22, 2018, 04:56:36 am
What? The main character develops? Inconceivable! :o

But I suspect that his current bravery is because of either Suspiria regaining her world-shaping influence now that the sphere is broken or that music-based spell is still in effect. Or both. Crest is probably going to take something away from this, but I don't think he is going to keep up being that smart, brave and clear-headed under pressure.
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on November 05, 2018, 02:54:42 pm
...Oh!  :o

It's a sword made by her will.

Also, this sword doesn't look quite the same when he first got it, and now. I'm assuming that's NOT a mistake.
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on November 06, 2018, 02:14:27 am
Yes! So what does the sword represent ...to her mind?  Protection, justice, Heroism?  She gave it to the man she was falling in love with to protect him as a sign of her affection.  Later on she tells him its enchanted to heal those pierced by its blade.  She gave Crest the option of letting her die.. instead of using it on her to save her life after the battle with Qtalda... she was afraid she was becoming a monster... Crest's action to save her gave her verification... that at least one person in the world believed IN HER.. and felt she was worth saving!

So again... what does the sword represent to her mentally?  Redemption, Hope... Love?
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: SirBananaPie on November 06, 2018, 04:46:09 am
That is a fascinating reveal. I didn't question the legendariness of this sword, simply because Bernadette has two super swords as well and because it has been established that magic can be anything you like.
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on November 07, 2018, 08:07:23 pm
"If you believe
Within your heart you'll know
That no one can change
The path that you must go"

"Believe what you feel
And know you're right because
The time will come around
When you say it's yours!"

"Believe there's a reason to be!"
"Believe you can make time stand still!"
"You know from the moment you try!"
"If you believe, I know you will!"

"Believe that you can go home!
"Believe you can float on air!"
"Click your heels three times,
""If YOU Believe, Then you'll be there!"

"Believe in yourself right from the start
You'll have brains, you'll have a heart
You'll have courage
To last your whole life through!"

"You've got to Believe,
Believe in the Magic,
Right there in your heart
Go ahead, Believe all these things~
Not because I told you to!"

"NO.. Go ahead Believe,
Believe in Yourself!"

"If you believe in yourself!"
"If You believe in Yourself!!"
"If YOU believe in YOURSELF!!!"
"As I believe in YOU!!!"

Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: SAGG on November 07, 2018, 08:32:02 pm
As I figured. The creature was bluffing... 🤨
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: dekutree64 on November 11, 2018, 02:37:28 am
Let me see your war face, Crest! AHH!
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on November 12, 2018, 04:01:23 am
There's a chance Crest's loud screaming will wake her up in addition to the sword working. Or instead of the sword working. I dunno.

i'm kinda reminded of something in Gunerkrigg Court. I mentioned it during the Japan Break? Well there's a scene where the talk about how a man sees a stone, and imagines a woman. Usually this would mean a sculpture, but there is girl whose body is like rock in terms of hardness.

The interesting thing is the story suggests humans imagined her into being in such a way as to predate them, ditto the stars in the sky. But that's a side idea. We do it every day, we take an ordinary girl by all accounts, and she becomes our Dearest. Or a bunch of lumber becomes our dream home.
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: SirBananaPie on November 12, 2018, 12:12:59 pm
Yeah, Crest, this isn't Fairy Tail. ::)

Also I shall not read the previous post, since I'm still quite far from being up-to-date with Gunnerkrig. I'm at page 448 by now.
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on November 12, 2018, 06:02:37 pm
If this were Fairy Tail, someone would step in front of the attack with both hands wide apart, then die. Or seemingly die, then recover later.

You're about 600 pages away from understanding the context anyway then, since the character I mean is still a background character. Why, you haven't even gotten to the cows yet!

Watching Man of La Mancha (Turner Classic Movies on DVR). Talk about a coincidence.
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: SirBananaPie on November 13, 2018, 12:37:16 am
I'm going to stop reading your posts now. ::) Until I'm up-to-date with Gunnerkrigg.
I'm allergic to spoilers, regardless of whether or not I know the context.
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on November 13, 2018, 02:36:53 am
"Here me now oh be-grieved and unbearable world,
Thou art base and debouched as can be!"

"Now a HOLY Endeavor is now to begin,
And VIRTUE shall triumph at last!"
{Now a Knight with his Banners, All Bravely unfurled,
Now Hurls down his Gauntlet to THEE!}

"I AM I! Don Quixote the Lord of the La Mancha,
MY Destiny Calls and I Go!"

"And the Wild Winds of Fortune,
Shall carry me Onward for whether-soever they Blow!"

"WHETHER-SOEVER They Blow!"
"ONWARD to GLORY I GO!!!"


My Favorite musical by far!
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: SAGG on November 14, 2018, 01:34:02 am
And it hits Crest. No, not the monster. What he must do in addition... 😁
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on November 14, 2018, 03:10:28 pm
 :o

I dunno what to think anymore. It's almost like someone shoved a large spike through my brain.
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on November 14, 2018, 08:22:18 pm
Same... I'm not sure what to think... oh.. I've ALWAYS had a large spike through my brain...{shuulluulkk}... there pulled it free some things coming to me kn~ [THUD!!!~]
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: SirBananaPie on November 15, 2018, 03:37:09 am
Okaaaay... this is an interesting development. I am curious how Brion is going to get his characters out of this one. Maybe some help from the outside? Maybe it has something to do with the time-loop Melter can apparently do?
But even if that isn't the case, seeing that revival is possible in this world I can't rule out that Crest is actually going to die.
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on November 15, 2018, 11:51:21 pm
Resurrection is out. According to what Brion told us about the process, brain injuries are no go. I have a few ideas, but we're gonna hold off with those for the time being. It's possible this is a really suck time loop that keeps repeating until Suspiria makes things right with Crest. The other option has something to do with a power that Suspiria used earlier. No hints.
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: UmberIsSexy on November 16, 2018, 12:13:31 am
The more I look at them, everybody's faces, including Crest's, look more surprised than horrified...which is probably good news.

Oh plus Moby said "What??" instead of "NOOOO!"  Actually, now I realize it's kind of obvious that everyone's reacting to something surprising rather than something bad.  I think I'm just pointing out the obvious.
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on November 16, 2018, 04:27:15 pm
I think we are about to discover a thus far hidden power of that LEGENDARY SWORD Crest is wielding.  Crest should be dead... but he has NOT released his grip on the sword..curious? :)
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on November 19, 2018, 01:03:33 pm
That's uhhh really creepy that he has a freaking hole through his head and he's like "No Worries!"
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on November 19, 2018, 02:34:35 pm
WOOT!!!  Suspira loves YOU Crest!!! :-*
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: Daris on November 19, 2018, 02:42:10 pm
Whooo!   Go Crest!  Break through and become a Hero!
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: SAGG on November 19, 2018, 08:01:21 pm
HAH! Here we go! Told you guys! 😋 Crest is my boy! (Pauses) Now, just for meanness, watch Brion throw us a curveball...  😏😆
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: SirBananaPie on November 20, 2018, 11:45:27 pm
Eh, he has been alternating hope and despair on a page-by-page basis for the most part after the monster lifted the ground. :P
Right now I'm just sitting back and waiting until he's done with the curveballs.

I think on the next page the monster should stab Moby, like it stabbed Crest back then. Or maybe Regina. Yes, Crest would care about Regina more than about Moby I guess. We need more dead people.
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: Daris on November 21, 2018, 01:31:54 am
I'm just glad Crest is finally acting!  He's actually growing into the potential he showed.  Sure, it cost a lot... but still!
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: Kiran on November 21, 2018, 03:44:20 pm
A bit disappointing result, I thought it would be a bit more serious for a bit longer, but the sword deal, is a bit too much for me...
But then Bern sword got some other power in usage, so maybe that's a given power of any magical weapon, they always have a hidden second mode which will get used and revealed in perfect moment to save their users from certain fate when needed.

I still hope to see this Crest arc to end (to finally get back to the duo of MCs I actually started and still read the comic for even if I can't see them for more than a year of real life time by now in the actual storysince I don't care at all about Crest) with something interesting cause I actually belived the characters would try to work together to get out of this mess than it being resolved just like that with magical weapon outcome.

Or we will soon learn all of them were just sleeping and everything happened in their minds :P
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: MaronaPossessed on November 21, 2018, 04:56:05 pm
"I think I'll call this ability "Instant Karma""

https://youtu.be/GPXkjtpGCFI?t=9s
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on November 21, 2018, 07:45:26 pm
Karma attack!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pe2Pq3n9Euo

Kiran, I think some of your dissatisfaction about pacing is from the fact that you're confusing sword abilities for sword wielder.

In Bern's case, it wouldn't be much good except for a Split Rose wielder. In Crest's case, it took awhile for him to figure out that his sword is basically an extension of Suspi's feelings for him. When viewed this way, it's less a cheap giveaway and more something they managed by character development or skill.
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on November 21, 2018, 08:30:23 pm
And if you don't like the free Web Comic... you Don't have to read it.
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: SirBananaPie on November 22, 2018, 12:52:24 am
Suspiria has been shaping the world like a god, so as a writer it must be really difficult to not make something look like a Deus Ex Machina. I mean, the characters are currently dealing with someone who has the powers to create random Deus Ex Machinas all over the place as if they were in the Matrix and they need to figure out how to deal with someone like that. I think it's legit to assume that Crest's sword received an ultimate attack because of that.

While I do prefer Maytag and Bernadette over Crest, I also do prefer Mary and Suspiria over the others, so I'm perfectly happy with this arc. :) Okay, Mopey is still alive, but you can't have everything. At least Glyph died. 8)
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on November 22, 2018, 04:41:13 pm
Actually, I'm a sucker for blondes... I'd really like to see moby find real love.
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: SirBananaPie on November 23, 2018, 01:31:47 am
Blonde? http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=2263  ;)

But yeah, I kinda suspected you might like Moby, because there was the occasional hint here and there. Which is why I'm wondering if you believe that she messed up the whole thing by herself or if Suspiria's powers forced her to snap despite the sphere. I made a thread about it, because there are quite a bunch of things that seemed off in her behavior, even if you include the fact that joining Phalanx makes you dumb. ::)
http://flipside.keenspot.com/forum/index.php?topic=9123.0
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: Daris on November 23, 2018, 12:00:39 pm
Well, of course joining Phalanx makes you dumb, every time you join a secret organization full of elites, you become cannon fodder for the real bad guys/badasses.
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: SirBananaPie on November 23, 2018, 01:31:12 pm
If they even make it that far at all. Most of the conclave died because Suspiria has difficult emotions.
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: Daris on November 23, 2018, 03:00:00 pm
IE became canon fodder for emotions.  It reminds me of the law of conservation of ninjutsu
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on November 23, 2018, 10:21:31 pm
Suspiria has been shaping the world like a god, so as a writer it must be really difficult to not make something look like a Deus Ex Machina. I mean, the characters are currently dealing with someone who has the powers to create random Deus Ex Machinas all over the place as if they were in the Matrix and they need to figure out how to deal with someone like that. I think it's legit to assume that Crest's sword received an ultimate attack because of that.

While I do prefer Maytag and Bernadette over Crest, I also do prefer Mary and Suspiria over the others, so I'm perfectly happy with this arc. :) Okay, Mopey is still alive, but you can't have everything. At least Glyph died. 8)

As someone who is also writing a story about someone very OP (the story is called Oracle of Tao, and there's a video game of it, and I'm trying to make a novel), there are certain tricks to it.
1. Extremely slow caster (Grune from Tales of Legendia, most summoners, Ambrosia in my game, etc).
2. Make them turn out to be a villain (Sephiroth, also Grune sorta, alot of characters actually)
3. Make them turn out to be a deity (also Grune, also Ambrosia)

And of course there's kill them off, make them the Ace (what TvTropes calls a heroic background character), or introduce Kryptonite into the setting.

But this isn't an accurate  list because there are two others: make their powers have some sort of drawback or make them so strong that they have to hold back or blow everything up.

Ambrosia starts out with a sort of slow-cast tai chi power powered by tattoos, in the end of the first part she learns she is a deity but mainly what changes is that  her power is now kinda normal speed and stronger, she can't use her  deity powers (doing some means she takes up her power's responsibility and is hamstringed by its restrictions), and she get The Ace treatment until the ending where her daughter mostly takes the limelight.
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on November 26, 2018, 08:01:07 am
Blonde? http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=2263  ;)

But yeah, I kinda suspected you might like Moby, because there was the occasional hint here and there. Which is why I'm wondering if you believe that she messed up the whole thing by herself or if Suspiria's powers forced her to snap despite the sphere. I made a thread about it, because there are quite a bunch of things that seemed off in her behavior, even if you include the fact that joining Phalanx makes you dumb. ::)
http://flipside.keenspot.com/forum/index.php?topic=9123.0

Hey answered your Thread on Moby... sorry I missed it!
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: SirBananaPie on November 26, 2018, 11:28:10 pm
Thanks! And very elaborate, too. :) I'll need some time to read all of it.
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: UmberIsSexy on November 30, 2018, 12:11:42 am
That's the problem with having too many eyes!!  Sure, they're scary, but if you get blown up they fly everywhere and everyone laughs.

"Instant Karma" I love it.
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on November 30, 2018, 04:49:53 am
heh.  Now THATS some superhero shit!  Way to go Crest!
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: Kiran on November 30, 2018, 10:11:18 am
Lame attack is the key word to use here :P
Maybe I'm indeed too old to read this comic anymore which turned more into teenage boy wet dream seeing today's page over the year of Crest chapter than what it was before a comic told mostly from it's female characters perspective which intrigued me more.
I suppose I read this comic for different things than the few readers above me and Crest is rather a big minus here seeing how his plot got resolved by instant "cheating" sword which saved the situation completely.
Let's say some readers want a bit different things than male MC being your standard teenage boy hero of the story like in millions of other works with this theme.
Now the real question remains if the people who died actually died, or will be now restored to life by the evil monster defeated or not.
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: Brion Foulke on December 02, 2018, 10:01:53 am
Oh well, every story arc can't please everyone!  I think Crest deserved his time to shine, though!
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on December 02, 2018, 08:42:21 pm
I agree wholehearted... this Web comic has not solely been about just Maytag... or Bernadette... but all three of the main characters, May, Bern, AND Crest! It has consistantly and in my opinion given equal screen time to all three of the main characters. Bern got her power up so has Crest... I'm kinda waiting for Maytag to get hers but she has proven time and again... that she is a remarkable woman of substance who takes on ALL challenges head on and her cunning and insightfulness ARE her greatest power...and as yet have proven Matchless!  I cannot wait to see Maytag, Bernadette, Polly, Crest and Suspira all together again fighting against the threats of the world!!!

So you have my vote of confidence, Brion...keep up the great writing!!

Edit 1# GRRR.. I HATE the uber-aggressive auto-complete on my phone... this post was made from my phone and the grammatical and spelling errors are Damned annoying when I wanted a completely different word!
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: SirBananaPie on December 03, 2018, 06:00:35 am
@Kiran: Stories with characters like Suspiria in them are difficult to tell without giving a Deus Ex Machina impression. I've stated it above:

Suspiria has been shaping the world like a god, so as a writer it must be really difficult to not make something look like a Deus Ex Machina. I mean, the characters are currently dealing with someone who has the powers to create random Deus Ex Machinas all over the place as if they were in the Matrix and they need to figure out how to deal with someone like that. I think it's legit to assume that Crest's sword received an ultimate attack because of that.

While I do prefer Maytag and Bernadette over Crest, I also do prefer Mary and Suspiria over the others, so I'm perfectly happy with this arc. :) Okay, Mopey is still alive, but you can't have everything. At least Glyph died. 8)

@bulma:
Regarding OP characters, I am currently watching The Disastrous Life of Saiki K on Netflix. That guy is more OP than One Punch Man, but the series is hilarious. They deal with it mostly by giving him weaknesses and silly characters to interact with.

Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on December 03, 2018, 09:21:43 pm
I agree wholehearted... this Web comic has not solely been about just Maytag... or Bernadette... but all three of the main characters, May, Bern, AND Crest! It has consistantly and in my opinion given equal screen time to all three of the main characters. Bern got her power up so has Crest... I'm kinda waiting for Maytag to get hers but she has proven time and again... that she is a remarkable woman of substance who takes on ALL challenges head on and her Cummings and insightfulNess ARE her greatest power...and as yet have proven Matchless!  I cannot wait to see Maytag, Bernadette, Polly, Crest and Suspira all together again fighting against the threats of the world!!!

So you have my vote of confidence, Brion...keep up the great writing!!

I thought Eye and CS3 were her powerup. May's power has always been social not combat so it follows her "power" is gaining strong allies.
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on December 03, 2018, 09:35:00 pm
@Kiran: Stories with characters like Suspiria in them are difficult to tell without giving a Deus Ex Machina impression. I've stated it above:

Suspiria has been shaping the world like a god, so as a writer it must be really difficult to not make something look like a Deus Ex Machina. I mean, the characters are currently dealing with someone who has the powers to create random Deus Ex Machinas all over the place as if they were in the Matrix and they need to figure out how to deal with someone like that. I think it's legit to assume that Crest's sword received an ultimate attack because of that.

While I do prefer Maytag and Bernadette over Crest, I also do prefer Mary and Suspiria over the others, so I'm perfectly happy with this arc. :) Okay, Mopey is still alive, but you can't have everything. At least Glyph died. 8)

@bulma:
Regarding OP characters, I am currently watching The Disastrous Life of Saiki K on Netflix. That guy is more OP than One Punch Man, but the series is hilarious. They deal with it mostly by giving him weaknesses and silly characters to interact with.

Yeah he is, I know the show. Yet despite him being much more OP they handle it by making it character-driven like you say. The problem with One Punch Man is that the story is basically all about him trying to find a worthy ally so it basically highlights just how overpowered he is. Whereas, Saiki K is about Saiki trying to entertain himself and slowly gaining friends despite himself. Pffft Teruhashi's literal glowing personality and Kaido's theme song literally kept me watching an entire first season in like three days.
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on December 03, 2018, 10:08:33 pm
... I'm kinda waiting for Maytag to get hers but she has proven time and again... that she is a remarkable woman of substance who takes on ALL challenges head on and her cunning and insightfulness ARE her greatest power...

Edit 1# GRRR.. I HATE the uber-aggressive auto-complete on my phone... this post was made from my phone and the grammatical and spelling errors are Damned annoying when I wanted a completely different word!

@ Bulma :  Hmmm...possibly?  But I don't think Maytag is the type to use people like personal tools... when I say powerup.. I mean 'personal' self-possessed power... like Bern and Crest's swords and increased training.  But Honestly... I agree.. May's power has always been her social skills not only in reading people but being so unpredictable and unfathomly determined regardless of the personal cost to succeed... she will do things most sane people would never consider...

Deadshot 'Speaking to Harley Quin' - "So.. your power is ~ you're basically crazy?!?"
Harley Quin 'Smiling' - "Yep!"
Deadshot 'shaking head' - "I'm NOT getting paid enough for this shit..."

Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on December 04, 2018, 05:05:57 am
I think "use people" is the wrong word.

Maytag has three special skills:

CS3 is basically a bag of tricks, able to summon up stuff. And her charisma nets her some friends. Of course, them staying depends on earning CS3's trust, as that cat plans to take Eye and run.

I guess I'd compare her to a character like Kingpin. Except she weighs a little less. She has her personal strengths, but no powers except durability. But Kingpin is  attached to both Hydra and the Hand, both of which have a huge number of super-powered allies, to say nothing of his common thugs. Now, I don't see her as a crime lord, but let's consider. Maytag used to be alone. Then she found Bern. Then Crest. Then Glyph. Then Glyph's friends, and now she Suspiria in her party. She is not exactly party leader, but despite having Thin Man hunt her for her abilities, for awhile she had a regular entourage, all of which were pretty special.
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: SAGG on December 05, 2018, 02:22:26 am
? What just happened? 😶
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: SAGG on December 05, 2018, 08:26:27 pm
I think I kind of see what's going on, with some characters now still alive, but aren't we missing someone, the blond haired guy? 🤔
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: SirBananaPie on December 05, 2018, 11:55:57 pm
Oh, now I get it when I read somewhere in this forum that the ability might be something Suspiria used earlier already. Was the "No Spoilers" thing something Brion put into that post? Also that post seems to be gone now.

To clarify: The Instant Karma ability is closely related to the Retribution Doll Suspiria used to kill the Conclave. So when Crest got killed while the sword was inside his enemy, the ability was triggered.

I like that outcome! ^^ It was well thought-out.
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on December 06, 2018, 12:44:54 am
"This is the END!
Here’s where You’ll DIE…
Legends should Scatter,
So Just say good bye!

No one will miss you,
When you’re fin’lly Gone.
At your conclusion ~
Sing your Swan Song!

Murder Unkindness Conspiracy,
Embers Extinguished In Effigy…

Black out The sky~
All Things MUST Die~"


heh.  'nuff said.
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on December 06, 2018, 05:00:21 am
Oh, now I get it when I read somewhere in this forum that the ability might be something Suspiria used earlier already. Was the "No Spoilers" thing something Brion put into that post? Also that post seems to be gone now.

To clarify: The Instant Karma ability is closely related to the Retribution Doll Suspiria used to kill the Conclave. So when Crest got killed while the sword was inside his enemy, the ability was triggered.

I like that outcome! ^^ It was well thought-out.

It was probably one of my posts. I tend to analyze every frame of anime and webcomics, and as a result sometimes figure out some of why characters are able to do stuff before it is officially announced. I don't sweat it.

Oh, I didn't realize it came from that moment. I just figured since Suspiria is adding power to the sword, that's probably part of it. 
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: Kiran on December 07, 2018, 10:00:47 am
Let's be frank.
What was the reason I started reaing this comic more than 9 years ago and why I'm keeping reading it till now?
It was an advert on some webcomic list about a comic about nymphomaniac jester girl and her loyal female knight.
I expected some cheap erotic/porn and instead I got deep psychological comic about the couple struggles which as for everyone it can't be easy if the characters definition of what they want is completely different for life, but then, hey they love each other so they stay together anyway, like most of married/partners poeple...
And imagine my negative surprise when I'm start reading it in the past and I got some boring teenage poor boy as MC in that first chapter, thanks God there were more chapters to read then where I learned May and Bern are indeed the MCs of the story, if not I suppose would drop it right there if there wouldn't be shift to their perspective and finally taking over the comic like it should be :P
I don't much like or care about Crest but again having 3 full chapters of his adventure updated by 60 pages each which took over whole year of comic updates while completely sidelining Bern and May turn made me cranky about this issue. For me as being over 30 now, there's nothing worse than story with teenage boy MC being the lamest thing ever existing, hell I even more prefare a story about girl finding her jerkish prince she wants to change plot going and that would say a lot ;)
I simply think Crest if he is indeed the MC too on the same right as the girls he didn't suffer enough like other two girls just for being a guy reason and he has it easier on the abuse or sexual assault or similiar themes compared to female MCs.
Did we see Crest mouth getting raped in magical bath by Glyph by magic excuse reason?
No.
Did we see Crest getting his eyes ripped off (imaginery) or getting chewed on by cannibal monster like other woman?
No.
His serious arc was about being assaulted by a sexy girl he would normally like anyway in normal circumstances, and if we would compare that what Polly had to go through to save herself and Bern, or May in the past, it's just not fair.
Sorry I had to say it.
And in the end we now see Suspiria saved him.
I really hope some next chapter will get a bit even more into the comic lore and why such kind of magic fueled by qualia/nanomachines even exist in such technological level of a world and why some can communicate with qualia better to bend them to their will to change the world and some not.
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: Brion Foulke on December 07, 2018, 12:48:47 pm
You're allowed to like what characters you want to like, but your complaints leave a bad taste in my mouth.  Crest WAS sexually assaulted, you can't call that invalid just because Moby is "sexy."  That's not cool.  For that matter, so was Glyph in that bath since he was actually being possessed, and forced to do something against his will.  There's this whole double standard where guys being sexually assaulted is trivialized because "they'd probably like it anyway" or "they should feel grateful," which was exactly the excuse Moby used in that scene.

You have a point that the amount Crest suffered is not really equal with Bernadette.  For that matter, Maytag also doesn't "suffer" on an equal level, even though she probably goes through the most traumatic events.  That's because each character is different, with different planned arcs.  Maybe it would have been cool to take Crest's character in a different direction, and have him "suffer" more.   But people are always saying they want to see Crest get stronger, that's the direction people always seem to ask for.  So I thought it would be cool to fulfill that, but in a way that is subtly subversive.  I agree it would be boring to simply have him power up Dragon Ball Z style in an arc that amounts to a simply power fantasy, (not that I mind that kind of thing) so I wanted to do something with a few more layers underneath.  As a writer, it would be tacky for me to explain exactly what those are, but suffice to say that if you aren't seeing that, all I can really say is sorry.  Maybe I did a bad job, but hopefully others will see what I'm going for (or get something else out of it.)

Also these last 3 chapters are meant to allow me to have some fun adding more horror and Lynchian elements to the comic, since I'm a huge fan of those elements.  If that's not your bag, as I know it isn't for some people.... well, all I can really say is sorry!  We're pretty much done with that stuff for now, anyway.

I can totally see how it would be a drag how the comic has focused on him for the last year, but that's simply a factor of how webcomics work... time moves slow when it's a page at a time.  If it's any consolation, May and Bern are both planned to be getting a LOT more screentime in the near future.
Title: Re: Chapter 51: Discussion
Post by: SirBananaPie on December 08, 2018, 11:13:23 am
Oh, now I get it when I read somewhere in this forum that the ability might be something Suspiria used earlier already. Was the "No Spoilers" thing something Brion put into that post? Also that post seems to be gone now.

To clarify: The Instant Karma ability is closely related to the Retribution Doll Suspiria used to kill the Conclave. So when Crest got killed while the sword was inside his enemy, the ability was triggered.

I like that outcome! ^^ It was well thought-out.

It was probably one of my posts. I tend to analyze every frame of anime and webcomics, and as a result sometimes figure out some of why characters are able to do stuff before it is officially announced. I don't sweat it.

Oh, I didn't realize it came from that moment. I just figured since Suspiria is adding power to the sword, that's probably part of it.


Ah, so it wasn't Brion who added the "No spoilers" part then? It just meant that you were taking a wild guess and didn't actually refer to any actual power she used before?  :o Wow, that's a new experience for me. ;D