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Comics Discussion => Flipside Discussion => Topic started by: Brion Foulke on May 13, 2016, 02:38:12 pm

Title: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: Brion Foulke on May 13, 2016, 02:38:12 pm
This thread is for discussing Chapter 46.  Bernadette and Polly are now both in A-Rank.  Will they be able to smoothly make progress towards escape?
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: Azure Priest on May 15, 2016, 02:49:03 am
And we're back to our sexy gladiators!

Guess they were able to satisfy their secret "admirer?"
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on May 15, 2016, 12:43:58 pm
I know I'd be satisfied....! ;) (lascivious joking)

On a side note.... do we know ANYTHING about Bernadette's mother?  Wouldn't it be interesting if the warden was her mother?
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: Azure Priest on May 16, 2016, 06:27:08 am
I know I'd be satisfied....! ;) (lascivious joking)

On a side note.... do we know ANYTHING about Bernadette's mother?  Wouldn't it be interesting if the warden was her mother?

She'd have to be taking Elixirs of Youth on a fairly regular basis, seeing as Bern is easily in her thirties, and even if the Warden had Bern young, she'd easily be in her 50s.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on May 16, 2016, 11:38:32 am
Thirties? I thought Bern was around 16-21. Warden looks maybe 16 years older (one of reasons to ditch a child is being too young/inexperienced to take care of them). Given no child pregnancy laws in this country, Warden could be as young as 32-early forties. She hardly looks 50.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: monimoni on May 17, 2016, 04:59:12 am
I always assumed all the main characters are in their 20's (except maybe Regina, Crest and Suspiria who i would say are around 19), because they seem a bit too mature and experienced to be under 20 (Bern was part of some gang and then worked as a bodyguard or something..), and it would be a little weird.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: Azure Priest on May 17, 2016, 06:42:34 am
Bern has been stated to be old enough to be Crest's mother and he's in his mid to late teens.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on May 17, 2016, 12:16:08 pm
Bern has been stated to be old enough to be Crest's mother and he's in his mid to late teens.

So what your saying is.. Bernedette is a Bad-Ass, Milla Jovovich Sexy, Sword-wielding MILF?!? 
{I think I'm in love!  ;)}

... "I'll be in my bunk..."
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on May 19, 2016, 06:15:13 pm
I always assumed all the main characters are in their 20's (except maybe Regina, Crest and Suspiria who i would say are around 19), because they seem a bit too mature and experienced to be under 20 (Bern was part of some gang and then worked as a bodyguard or something..), and it would be a little weird.

Quote
Bern has been stated to be old enough to be Crest's mother and he's in his mid to late teens.

You don't happen to have quote for that one?

Let's assume she's early 30s, Warden could still realistically be in her mid 40s.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: MaronaPossessed on May 20, 2016, 06:53:53 am
Darn. Was hoping for a full sex scene here on this chapter.

...maybe if it becomes a side story, i'll buy it<3
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: monimoni on May 20, 2016, 11:19:28 am
I dont think the author intended to turn it into full-blown lesbian pornography.. there are other places for that. However I am a bit confused.. so they had sex already? Are they being watched?
Also, am i the only one bothered by Polly's constantly changing eye color?
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on May 20, 2016, 01:27:31 pm
I think the author is not necessarily censoring sex. I mean there obviously is sex and violence aplenty, along with other themes like cannibalism. I think though, that Brion, like many authors believes "sex should be shown only if relevant to the plot." If you can get the point across without showing much, this is probably enough.

It seems so, otherwise she wouldn't say that she's cheated.

Oddly, this is probably okay, as both are feeling guilty about the idea of an open relationship. May is beating herself because she wants to be faithful to Bern, but knowing that even Bern got talked into something like this might ease her mind. Not that the average couple wants to cheat, but here it might give peace of mind.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: Brion Foulke on May 22, 2016, 07:45:46 pm
I think the author is not necessarily censoring sex. I mean there obviously is sex and violence aplenty, along with other themes like cannibalism. I think though, that Brion, like many authors believes "sex should be shown only if relevant to the plot." If you can get the point across without showing much, this is probably enough.

Depends on how frugal I'm trying to be with page space.  But as I am generally trying to keep things pretty tight, I prefer to show *nothing* that's not relevant to the plot.  If the constraints were a bit looser, it'd be okay to show anything with thematic relevance, and I like to read comics with that kind of looseness as well.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on May 23, 2016, 10:13:22 am
And here is the crux of her guilt.. she really does love Polly.. and Bern enjoyed being with her.. and she knows it!

How does the Bible put it... 'A man who looks at a women with desire in his heart has already committed adultery with her...' {and NO that's not the same as appreciating  or admiring a lovely woman.. this is about coveting the desire to be intimate with her 'if you could get away with it and not get caught!' THAT is the sin.. the desire for something that is not yours to have or have no right too..bacause you are already married/committed to someone else}.

- Not totally applicable in most Christian views in this case 'ie two women' but the principle is derivative; at least to the morally minded Bernadette! :)

Poor Bern.. the heart is a treacherous thing.. I'm really admiring her for knowing in her heart she does in-fact desire Polly, and her conscience is rightly bothering her!  She has a honest heart at least and knows.. she should apologize to Maytag and ask her forgiveness.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on May 23, 2016, 05:41:31 pm
I used to believe as you do, sunphoenix.

(Then I took an arrow to the knee)

Erm, I mean, then I went to several different churches.

One, a fundamentalist, talked about how the law of the Hebrews was actually impossible to follow, which is why we are saved by grace.

After walking out of said church (something to do with a "family" sermon where he condemned LGBT people) I went to a more down-to-earth easygoing church. I learned that it was okay who I was.

All of this while I was reading a book known as the Virtue of Imperfection.

We have this mentality that sin is wrongdoing, but what I learned was that sin is actually better described by Final Fantasy X. They kept trying to banish Sin (both kinds) through sacrifice, but it kept coming back. It was only by rejecting this mentality that we got at the true source of sin, guilt. Letting go of guilt is the only way to truly kill off sin. That and a massive Aeon.

http://ontologicalgeek.com/change-or-live-final-fantasy-x-as-catholic-dystopia/

What this passage was trying to put was not that "you people may think you're okay but I have a new law and you're way worse off than you think (yay! Good News!)" but more like...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9c8bYuxLEg

"Until I learned to love myself
I was never ever lovin' anybody else"

The problem of adultery is not in itself, but that it produces emotions that make you feel cut off from the loved one. Self-hatred. This in turn make you act out in ways that distance you from other people. Even thinking about someone else produces these feelings. Not the idea of being damned to hell cuz you looked at a cute girl while in a relationship.

Bern needs to lighten up. May does know what she's going through and feels way worse about her own infidelity. But yea, it is how she feels. Tough to let go that feeling of worthlessness.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on May 25, 2016, 12:57:07 pm
heh! Told ya! :)

Here something to bake your brain about... what if the "Interested party" who wanted to see the two of them.. {ahem}.. together.. WAS the Warden?!?

Think about it.. the Warden was clearly impressed with Bern's devotion and CLEARLY unexpressed LOVE of Polly... and think of what the warden got in return... two BAD-ASSED fighters kicking tail all over the arena.. Both Women, probably something she herself would like to rub in the face of all the males watching and or fighting in the arena.  I'm sure arena sales have gone through the roof!
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on May 26, 2016, 12:07:01 pm
Except we saw the person who was interested.

Holdon, gotta find the comic...

http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=2593

Yeah, here it is. The guy who says "They're good."
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on May 26, 2016, 12:51:15 pm
HAHAHA! You have fallen for the writing trick! :)  There is no actual definitive proof that Either of those two was the interested party.. but we are led to draw a conjecture.. that may be entirely false! :)

I have used the same writing ploy in some of my writing as well! :)
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on May 27, 2016, 05:34:35 am
Oh c'mon. Yes, I imagine you could say it was a false lead.

But at a certain point if noticeably evil wizard in muttering on a mountaintop "Soon..." we generally don't assume that actually he is only there to buy ice cream and the actual culprit is the innkeeper.

Though there was a show like that. I saw this one called Josh Kirby...Time Warrior!  and the scientist guy was trying to collect parts for a device before an evil guy in a mech. Turned out the scientist was scattering a device that could stop the powers that be from controlling the world and he needed to collect them first. But it came so out of left field that it wound up being absurd.  Of course, most of the show was absurd so... (I mean really,  it was bad (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UlU_NYtaIg))

This guy appears to be a rich dude, and one of the many "charitable parties" that pays for entertainment. While it is plausible that the Warden has been secretly helping Bern all this time, either because she's into them, or because she hates the government or something, let's put that idea on hold for now.

Update: Also, awwwww, May is gonna be left out in the cold if they don't find a way to contact each other again.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: TheCollector on May 30, 2016, 02:52:00 pm
Y'know, I could be wrong, but I'm not really sure Bern has anything to worry about here, I'm pretty sure May would be open to polygamy.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: Daris on May 30, 2016, 04:06:54 pm
But, that's not the point.  She's not open to it. She feels regret, and shame for her having Polly still in her heart.  When she knows she'd be upset with Maytag for the same stuff.  Everyone's a bit hypocritical, and I'm happy to see that she is too.  Makes her more real.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: TheCollector on May 30, 2016, 04:50:14 pm
Well yeah, now. But who knows how things'll be when this is all over. She may not be willing to lose either of them again.

Oh! Oh! Like Scandal, Liana and Kay in DC comics!
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on June 10, 2016, 04:56:13 am
"Another easy win for (those two)" they kinda bolded that part.

I have a feeling it's gonna get harder before it gets easy. Probably wind up either in S matches or challenging the Warden for their freedom.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: TheCollector on June 10, 2016, 01:03:10 pm
Oh shit is that Melter?
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: MaronaPossessed on June 10, 2016, 02:03:48 pm
Oh shit is that Melter?
Could be Moss as well.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on June 10, 2016, 02:59:54 pm
Moss.

Melter, as seen here (http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=1787) has short cropped hair, no bangs, and high necked outfit.

Moss has bangs creeping into the eyes and shoulder-length hair.

Assuming it isn't another character.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: Puyon on June 10, 2016, 05:10:08 pm
Anyone remember Ash from Book Zero (http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic/book0/fs04titl.html)?

It might be a bit of a stretch for me to say it's her buuuut… I believe Brion F. did say she may be making a return (stated in the commentary at the end of book zero (http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic/book0/fs26pg36.html)…) i don't think Moss would be in Marvallo at the coliseum tailing Bernadette. I don't think he ever found her that interesting.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on June 10, 2016, 07:29:19 pm
Anyone remember Ash from Book Zero (http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic/book0/fs04titl.html)?

It might be a bit of a stretch for me to say it's her buuuut… I believe Brion F. did say she may be making a return (stated in the commentary at the end of book zero (http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic/book0/fs26pg36.html)…) i don't think Moss would be in Marvallo at the coliseum tailing Bernadette. I don't think he ever found her that interesting.

Good catch! And yes, I was thinking that was weird since he was more into May. I briefly considered that maybe he was watching after her because May had been targeted but kinda a long shot.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: SAGG on June 12, 2016, 03:00:19 am
"Escape"? Escape as in fighting for their eventual freedom by this country's rules, or "escape" as in eventually "escaping" by literally fighting to plot an escape, and slipping out? I do recall posting that they should do the former...
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on June 13, 2016, 08:27:32 am
Paying off their debts by being honest and accepting work means they get out of here with nobody pursuing them. Assuming Bern and Polly don't fall for some "double or nothing" trick where they lose all their marks if they fail some task.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: Furcas on June 13, 2016, 01:54:21 pm
Anyone remember Ash from Book Zero (http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic/book0/fs04titl.html)?

That was my thought as well. Although it could be a new character too.

Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on June 13, 2016, 04:59:20 pm
This btw is what I'm talking about. They'll probably handicap them too.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on June 17, 2016, 07:03:20 am
"Escape"? Escape as in fighting for their eventual freedom by this country's rules, or "escape" as in eventually "escaping" by literally fighting to plot an escape, and slipping out? I do recall posting that they should do the former...

Also.. they are far to public now with their new found renown.. if they tried to make a break for it ..even if they were not stopped immediately.. who do you think would be sent after them?  Yeah that's right ALL the "S" rank fighters as now it would like letting a pair of weapons of mass destruction loose... and look really bad on the 'Authority' of the Arena and Marvello{?Sp} Government for them to get away with it.

You can bet though.. the Arena is going to try to scheme a way for Bern and Polly to be forced into some kind of perpetual debt to Keep them fighting in the arena... its profitable for them after all to keep them fighting!

Polly is Sooo sexy when she's mad!  Too bad she's 'batting' for the other team... though I think she might be Bi actually... so hope springs eternal! :)

EDIT1#:  Hahaha! Love Bern's insight!  Yes "S" rank is a trap.. its dangerous and why risk her or her beloved Polly getting hurt when all they need to do is be patient?  Of course when they refuse.. I'm sure the powers that be will have something to say about their choice..it may soon not be a choice!
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on June 17, 2016, 03:45:12 pm
There are always choices. One of the biggest illusions is that other people can force us to do something. They actually can't.

They can try to manipulate us into thinking this, but if we have neither fear nor desire they can't bait us with the carrot or hit us with the stick. After that, the most they can do is try to kill us, and then all they have is a corpse not power over us.

Suppose for example, someone wanted me to stop being trans. "Just be a boy again!" They try to scalp me from my current job, offering more hours or better pay if I just play along. I say "screw that" and refuse the job. They threaten to get me fired. Once again, "screw that." If I'm doing a good job at my job, I can explain exactly what they said, and they can't actually say anything that will make that happen. They have no power.

A good leader knows this, and tries to make appealing options so the person neither feels manipulated nor coerced. A failed leader tries force, and someone like Gandhi makes their "rule" fall apart.

Bern and Polly can make any choices they like. If the Warden and (the other guy) are smart, they'll think of something that will make them a ton of money through gambling and get them out of their hair as quickly as possible before they get angry. Messing with someone who can fight is a bad idea.

Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on June 17, 2016, 06:52:57 pm
To ALL your points I whole-heartedly agree... Mrs Briefs!  No amount of coercion or temptation would force me to give up my Christian beliefs or my stand for the Sovereignty of Jehovah God's name!

Again.. "You can't control a man whose mind is free... ", unburdened by fear or desire! :)
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on June 20, 2016, 01:33:45 pm
Yeas sorry, I kinda blatantly plagiarized your signature.  ;D
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: SAGG on June 20, 2016, 07:52:09 pm
Well, those are famous Last Words. :) And Brion, I think it's "guarantee", not "gaurantee". ;) Watch as the Powers To Be manipulate our Heroic Duo into doing what the Powers To Be want them to do, which is to fight S-rankers....
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: monimoni on June 22, 2016, 02:12:36 am
"The hard and soft brothers"?  ;D
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on June 22, 2016, 01:16:26 pm
I assume they mean with regard to fighting form. Soft is stuff like judo which counters stuff, hard is direct force attacks.

Powers that be, not powers to be.

I think the time for manipulation is over. They have probably heard the playing it safe speech. This is likely one of the S-rank fighters jumping into the arena.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: SAGG on June 22, 2016, 04:16:16 pm
I assume they mean with regard to fighting form. Soft is stuff like judo which counters stuff, hard is direct force attacks.

Powers that be, not powers to be.

I think the time for manipulation is over. They have probably heard the playing it safe speech. This is likely one of the S-rank fighters jumping into the arena.
Yep. Annnd now it begins....
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on June 24, 2016, 05:15:35 am
They're pretty clever. They study their enemy well. Unfortunately, this kinda means the challenge of A rank is gone. Bern and Polly might opt for S rank just to have actual battles.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: SAGG on June 24, 2016, 12:22:25 pm
Um, I didn't expect THAT. :)  Well played, Brion!
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: Azure Priest on June 25, 2016, 07:40:18 am
" It's A TRAP." They're arguing to lure Bern and Polly into a false sense of security to launch an otherwise ill-advised attack and get their asses handed to them.

It's hard to think otherwise seeing as they had plenty of opportunity to discuss strategy while waiting for the match.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on June 26, 2016, 08:24:26 pm
They both sound like Fan-boys of the sexy 'dynamic duo'.

Like sports fans arguing over whose better... Michael Jordan or Lebron James! :)
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: SAGG on June 27, 2016, 12:50:46 am
Welp, THAT'S not working! :) What now, dude?
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: mittfh on June 27, 2016, 11:20:22 am
Oops - I think one of the brothers is in need of a new sword...

...and with the buildup required to perform that move, Bernadette had plenty of time to get into position.

Of course, what neither brother's realised is that neither Bern nor Polly individually are the true threat, but the combination of both. Meanwhile, with Polly's observation from p18 that they didn't pose a problem, she definitely didn't expect them to be that unchallenging (then again, neither did the MC).

Now is the thing attached to his brother's right arm a second weapon or a shield? If the latter, then the brothers are reduced to one weapon against the combination of Bern and Polly - added onto which, their reputation's just taken a bit of a dent...
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: dekutree64 on June 28, 2016, 03:41:03 am
Oh my god, he just ran in. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLyOj_QD4a4)
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on June 28, 2016, 04:31:45 am
Oops - I think one of the brothers is in need of a new sword...

...and with the buildup required to perform that move, Bernadette had plenty of time to get into position.

Of course, what neither brother's realised is that neither Bern nor Polly individually are the true threat, but the combination of both. Meanwhile, with Polly's observation from p18 that they didn't pose a problem, she definitely didn't expect them to be that unchallenging (then again, neither did the MC).

Now is the thing attached to his brother's right arm a second weapon or a shield? If the latter, then the brothers are reduced to one weapon against the combination of Bern and Polly - added onto which, their reputation's just taken a bit of a dent...

He also took quite a bit of shrapnel from the looks of it.

Quote
Oh my god, he just ran in.

The Leeroy Jenkins story is always told from the party's perspective. But actually looking from Leeroy's perspective, what he did was pretty much on point, he did his job as an tank to generate aggro away from the party. They spent over a minute gabbing about strategy in the video, and display a complete inability to think on their feet. As in, they spend the whole time trying to follow someone who was leading the enemies around. Instead, they could have come up with a four second plan. "Wizards, ready your AOEs. Fighters and Rogues concentrate on one creature at a time to break their line. Buffers buff. Healers heal. I don't know what Leeroy is doing but let's just go in." Not the best pan, but enough to keep them alive for awhile. They had no plan B, they just followed Leeroy, broke formation and pretty much died from panic.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: monimoni on June 30, 2016, 08:52:12 am
Ouch. I sorta feel bad for them..
Hard brother might've had a point. But how do you defend against a flying steel ball?
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: mittfh on June 30, 2016, 02:06:16 pm
Ouch. I sorta feel bad for them..
Hard brother might've had a point. But how do you defend against a flying steel ball?

You either block it or move out of its trajectory - given in the last panel it looks as though Polly's already launched the ball, Hard's leaving it rather late to defend himself (perhaps still in shock about the downfall of Soft?), so this may turn out to be an unexpectedly short match.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on June 30, 2016, 05:00:57 pm
Someone's been watching too much of the Phantasm movies.  ;D


Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on July 01, 2016, 03:41:01 am
...I think she's gonna 'ball' him!
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: monimoni on July 01, 2016, 07:58:03 am
Yeah. I guess guys with standard weapons have little chance against these two. Shouldve kept them both busy
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on July 01, 2016, 07:43:21 pm
Interestingly, these weapons have a great deal in common with Taoism themes.

http://taoism.about.com/od/meditation/a/Fun_With_Mirrors.htm

Bern's weapon is a mirror, a group of swords that channel force from one to another, and also act as portals where attacks, "magical" or not, travel through to the other side.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baoding_balls

And Polly's balls are vaguely reminiscent of those metal exercise balls you rotate in your hand. This is exactly what this curve looked like when I saw.

Both groups are sort of a matchup of sword and shield motif. It looks like these ones are clearly skilled, but in terms of class ranking they are kinda needing to beef up the challenge. That said, it is important to remember that gladiators were originally slaves. If S rank was so great, you would think all the convicts would be out by now.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on July 04, 2016, 06:11:54 am
FINISH HIM!

..flawless victory!
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: mittfh on July 07, 2016, 12:12:29 am
So both brothers are down for the count, but the MC hasn't announced Polly and Bern as the winners.

Hmmm.

Given the spectators have paid to see the fight, I wouldn't be surprised if the venue has a contingency plan for unexpectedly short fights, e.g. bring someone else out to fight the victors (although they may not get any extra credit for the extra match)...
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on July 07, 2016, 08:38:51 am
You can do an S-Rank-up match. Or you can do A-Rank battle royal style, as an S-rank-up challenge. You choice.

 ;D

Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: monimoni on July 09, 2016, 02:53:14 am
Whoa. I had a feeling about this. Please don't kill Polly :(
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on July 09, 2016, 03:46:26 pm
Oh Crap no.. Don't kill Polly!
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: Azure Priest on July 09, 2016, 03:57:56 pm
Well. We've already seen that they're willing to "overlook" the death penalty when one of their gladiators doesn't do what they want. They wanted Bern and Poly in S-class. Since Poly and Bern refused, out come the poison darts.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: monimoni on July 10, 2016, 03:06:22 am
I dont know, I thought they did that when the crowd didn't like somebody. Would be a bit weird considering they're the most popular fighters. We don't know what the dart does yet.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on July 10, 2016, 06:33:48 pm
Probably a paralysis dart. I have a feeling Polly won't be able to help with this battle, Bern's gonna have to finish herself. Hopefully it's not a poison dart. I don't want to see her doing this without her.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: Azure Priest on July 12, 2016, 09:06:09 am
I dont know, I thought they did that when the crowd didn't like somebody. Would be a bit weird considering they're the most popular fighters. We don't know what the dart does yet.

Whatever it is, it can't be something good, and no, Polly is not alright.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: SAGG on July 12, 2016, 09:14:56 am
You can do an S-Rank-up match. Or you can do A-Rank battle royal style, as an S-rank-up challenge. You choice.

 ;D

Why do I have this feeling the MC and their sponsors, after hearing Bern and Polly refusing to do an A-Rank jump, conspire to get these two losers to do just this (to get set free early in exchange) and force Bern and Polly to do the jump, or for Bern to watch Polly die? Yeah, I can see this. The only thing I wonder about is did the dude consider a PO'd Polly to kill him? Somehow, I doubt it.

I look for Bern to do the jump to A-Rank for both of them to keep Polly from dying...
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: SAGG on July 12, 2016, 09:18:10 am
Probably a paralysis dart. I have a feeling Polly won't be able to help with this battle, Bern's gonna have to finish herself. Hopefully it's not a poison dart. I don't want to see her doing this without her.

See my post above. I think it's a slow-poison dart designed to force Bern (and Polly) to move up to A-Rank....
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on July 13, 2016, 02:45:22 pm
S-Rank.

They are on A-Rank already.

Also, this seems alot more like breaking someone's kneecaps to prevent them from skating than a thing planned by the sponsors. Which poison would pretty much have to be. That might not stop them from denying treatment for what is still like a shard straight through her... brachial artery (looked it up). It's a pretty big artery, and I don't think having a hole in it normally makes one all that healthy even if poison isn't involved.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on July 13, 2016, 09:09:47 pm
So... now~ saying 'fuck it' and busting out of here is starting to sound much more reasonable. Cause I'm not actually buying that the 'Sponsors' had nothing to do with this.. to much coincidence means there is no such thing! 

Its clear to me .. the 'sponsors' are going to do WHATEVER they have to do to Keep Bernadette and or Polly in their Arena perpetually. 

This was never really about Justice anyways.  A law system that underhands its own laws by rigging the system to serve their greed is not a law system that needs to be obeyed or respected in the least! 

Bust out.. kill every son of a bitch that tries to stop you.  Cause in the end.. that's what it looks like this is going to come down to anyways.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on July 14, 2016, 06:38:11 am
Yeah, it's a rigged game. It seems like they are in reach of their goal, but the house always wants to win, upping the stakes until they can't manage. No matter what dirty tricks they have to pull.

Merely escaping won't do, though, they'll catch her and add marks.

This is a choice between doing things the right way (becoming so OP that the sponsors have to resort to trying to bringing their best people until finally they're like "fuck it, this is no contest, we can't make any more money from you" and let them go), and doing things the easy way (simply becoming fed up and leaving, which might land them right back in the slammer).  It's stacked against her, but unfortunately for their sponsors, they have the teamwork and they have the tools.

Right now, though, Polly is top priority. And Bern doesn't really know how to help her short of playing along.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: MaronaPossessed on July 14, 2016, 08:18:12 am
AW SHIT MAN THINGS ARE GOING DOWNHILL!!!
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: monimoni on July 15, 2016, 04:45:44 am
Are we approaching the end of this chapter? Anyways Bernadette especially really needs to reconsider her strategy. She cares too much about the well-being of others; always planning her moves as to not cause much harm to her enemies. She also assumes her enemies have some sort of dignity. Well, that makes her especially predictable and vulnerable..in a place with no morals or rules.. This is where Warden had a point, imo. 
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on July 15, 2016, 05:31:00 am
I don't think you get it.

Bern isn't being "soft" she has seen the sort of people this place churns out. She sees the only way to keep her sanity as to be better than this place. And she's right. Those like Big I-Rod (this now his canon name) way back a few chapters ago let themselves get manipulated by the warden by hearing a promise of an easy victory against weak opponents. These people end up as sacrifices to this sick system. Bern, on the other hand, tries not to underestimate anyone, that everyone is potentially of worth and not up for slaughter. Her style is defensive and cautious. It was this that gave her a few seconds heads up to notice the guy throwing the weapon.

This doesn't make her infallible, she has flaws like everyone. But there's another thing. Her swords. Her swords are like a giant judo weapon. If she changed her style, openings would begin to form in her defense. She would become like these other chumps, all attack and no skill. Polly does what works for her, Bern is who she is supposed to be. This however, is not their best day. But a dirty attack doesn't "prove" that your approach is wrong. It proves that you need to be aware that occasionally people may try to trick you.

This was something brought up in the Kung Fu show. They were raised in a Buddhist Shaolin or whatever setting. The master raised these kids, and one day they got robbed. The master asked them "what have you learned?" One of the kids said "not to trust anymore." Hero said "expect the unexpected", but the master was like "You can GO now" to the other one, and proceeded to tell them about how when the nail fails, you don't blame ALL nails and stop building. Sometimes you just hit it wrong or had a bad nail.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzKXNqBxPrc

Bern needs to improve, yes, but she needs to set an example to this place. Why? Because either she can be better than it, or it can be better than her.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: monimoni on July 15, 2016, 10:52:48 am
Cool video
Quote
This however, is not their best day. But a dirty attack doesn't "prove" that your approach is wrong. It proves that you need to be aware that occasionally people may try to trick you.
Don't underestimate your enemy, is all I'm saying. Once the opponent is down, she should not give them the chance to fight back. Should've learned this from the fight with big I-rod guy. People will do about anything here and dirty moves are not sanctioned. Plus she had plenty free time while Polly was beating the fat guy..
Also the MC mentions "her favorite move" as going for the legs. Talk about being predictable..

In any case that was extremely dirty. Also interesting how it was aimed at Bern.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on July 16, 2016, 05:13:50 am
Wow.  Polly is Soooo lovely... who can blame Bern for not falling head over heels for her?
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: TheCollector on July 17, 2016, 02:06:06 pm
WOW. Okay Polly better damn well get better, cause if that guy says she's going to die or some shit then I'm just done with this comic.

Any other death whatever, but this would basically be the same lesbian takes a bullet for the one they love bullshit every tv show in the world seems to pull, and it would seriously disappoint me if Flipside did the same.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: Wulf on July 17, 2016, 08:03:13 pm
I am confident the arena might just happens to have the right extremely rare antidote in stock, available for the tiny price of going to S-Rank and perhaps an extra thousand marks or five.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: Kiran on July 18, 2016, 10:30:21 am
WOW. Okay Polly better damn well get better, cause if that guy says she's going to die or some shit then I'm just done with this comic.

Any other death whatever, but this would basically be the same lesbian takes a bullet for the one they love bullshit every tv show in the world seems to pull, and it would seriously disappoint me if Flipside did the same.
Looks like Brion is a fan of "The 100" and also "Once Upon a Time" resolution for lesbian characters this year ;)

Shame to see the best character in the comic so far which really grow on me much more than May or, blasphemy even Bern at some point, ended her life with such fate.

You would think that arena masters would not finish their profitable warriors in such way, but it really looks that there are no second chances for them after the prisoners refuse their promotion.

And we should remember that the poison was aimed at Bern not Polly, but from the guy's thoughts it looked he just got orders to poison one of them to break up the duo and make other suffer.
Kinda shitty deal for Polly, reunite with your life's love, then sacrifice your freedom for her, finally sell your body for her sake and now give up the life like previous deeds weren't enough...
Granted she heard that Bern loved her, she even got sex with her, but still the outcome is bad cause she never had a chance with May since May is the MC.

I still have some hope that this will turn into some poison which just slows down the heart rate and later could be reverted, but the chances are slim.
And if this is truly the end for Polly then at least I hope this will change Bern moralityand give her enough hardened resolve to kill all the arena masters and Warden in cold blood for what they did to her, semi-Gladiator movie style.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: monimoni on July 18, 2016, 11:13:55 am
Come onnnnnnnnn

Sh** just got real for Bern.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on July 18, 2016, 11:23:29 am
Noooo!!!! (http://www.nooooooooooooooo.com/)

So... shit.. I feel awful.. but does that mean Bern gets to keep Polly's Ball... and WREAK THE HELL out of EVERYBODY!?!

Cause then, they can't get near her because of her swords and she can pound the most deserving FUCK out of all of them {ironically}..with Polly's Ball!
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: SAGG on July 19, 2016, 03:22:12 am
Oh, man! Is this really happening?! Brian's got to have something up his sleeve, he's got to....
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: TheCollector on July 19, 2016, 09:39:43 pm
WOW. Okay Polly better damn well get better, cause if that guy says she's going to die or some shit then I'm just done with this comic.

Any other death whatever, but this would basically be the same lesbian takes a bullet for the one they love bullshit every tv show in the world seems to pull, and it would seriously disappoint me if Flipside did the same.
Looks like Brion is a fan of "The 100" and also "Once Upon a Time" resolution for lesbian characters this year ;)

Shame to see the best character in the comic so far which really grow on me much more than May or, blasphemy even Bern at some point, ended her life with such fate.

You would think that arena masters would not finish their profitable warriors in such way, but it really looks that there are no second chances for them after the prisoners refuse their promotion.

And we should remember that the poison was aimed at Bern not Polly, but from the guy's thoughts it looked he just got orders to poison one of them to break up the duo and make other suffer.
Kinda shitty deal for Polly, reunite with your life's love, then sacrifice your freedom for her, finally sell your body for her sake and now give up the life like previous deeds weren't enough...
Granted she heard that Bern loved her, she even got sex with her, but still the outcome is bad cause she never had a chance with May since May is the MC.

I still have some hope that this will turn into some poison which just slows down the heart rate and later could be reverted, but the chances are slim.
And if this is truly the end for Polly then at least I hope this will change Bern moralityand give her enough hardened resolve to kill all the arena masters and Warden in cold blood for what they did to her, semi-Gladiator movie style.
Well fuck him then, and no I'm not censoring that for once.
I mean what? Has Bury Your Gays become popular now? Is that what everyones jumping to do? See how many people they can piss off compared to others?
Since the first one in 1976, 160 lesbian and bisexual woman have been killed off on tv shows.
And believe it or now, it's even worse then it sounds, because 98 of those deaths, 98 of those characters killed. Took place in the past 5 and a half years. Yeah.
2010-2012 8 died each year, 2013-2014 16 died each year, and then in 2015 23 died.
At this point 2016 is at a whopping 19. And the years only half over.
Just saying, maybe JRoth isn't the type of writer you should model yourself after.
Title: !
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on July 20, 2016, 01:37:42 am
I am confident the arena might just happens to have the right extremely rare antidote in stock, available for the tiny price of going to S-Rank and perhaps an extra thousand marks or five.

Yup, keep stringing her along.

Probably now they'll promise to resurrect her or something. Bern should just tell them to fuck off or she'll kill them. Polly wouldn't want them working so hard to be free only to get sucked back into slavery. Also, pretty sure May wouldn't be okay with knowing that Bern is taking deal after stupid deal when she needs to get her life better, and have a work situation that actually works for her without her worrying about her life.

Bern needs to turn the tables on this bastard and be like "no, YOU listen! You are going to revive her, or I'm not going to anymore of your stupid battles! I'm going to stay in my cell and kill any guards that try to make me do otherwise. That won't be profitable for you, would it?" 

It's pretty clear why Bern was targeted. She has the better weapon, that can turn this thing around. She is also more taciturn Polly is weaker, probably would make for better entertainment, and would not have any chance of winning this back. She is also (despite appearances) more submissive, less principled, and more likely to do whatever the situation takes. Bern is more likely to sulk and refuse to cooperate at all.

Also, geez that statistic is almost more depressing than the actual statistic of RL LGBT  deaths. Almost.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: Puyon on July 20, 2016, 08:10:46 am
Bern's character is built around her integrity, though she has been shown to be willingly violent when the lives of people she cares about are endangered such as when Suspiria dropped Maytag from the sky or when she threatened the healer when Grant was dying. Good thing neither of those two died, but hoo boy, Polly is most probably dead. I don't know how I feel about Bern trying to kill everyone (or even threaten to do so), because killing people I cold blood has been against her code since uh… forever. I would like to see how Bernadette is going to uphold her mentality that she won't kill anyone if she doesn't have to. Her character is really going to be challenged here and yeah, I'm really mad if that's what Polly's death is going to be reduced to; something that forces Bern to have to change.

…also while I'm not okay with the premise of Bern murdering anyone, I am heavily in favor of Bern punching this guy in the teeth, if only to get him to shut the ever loving heck up.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: Wulf on July 20, 2016, 11:26:49 am
Hmm, well, Book Zero did show that ressurection was possible, but that it was expensive and depended on the cause of death. Since we also now know or at least assume magic is produced by tiny nanobots, I guess the big limiter is how damaged the brain is. Still, being death does damage the brain rather quickly, so the time limit has to be rather tight.

Good thing the warden is there with his sincere used car salesman smile to propose the deal of the century. Stringing along? Nonsense, the management is wholly unresponsible for this fully unexpected and unfortunate turn of events. It is only in our vastly infinite generosity that we propose an equitable solution with an insignificant cost compared to the expenses deployed for it. Truly, you are in our (infinite) debt.

Also still possible, perhaps being the more affordable option, would be having the poison causing a realistic simulation of death and having the healer lying.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on July 20, 2016, 12:18:37 pm
That smile...

That FUCKING SMILE...!!! (https://www.google.com/search?q=Ikari+Gendo%27s+smile&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjGlbSj4ILOAhWK1CYKHZSvB18Q_AUICCgB&biw=1024&bih=634#imgrc=fT5E6oCVXozmzM%3A)

I think the arena masters have made a major mistake.  You can push people.. only so far, and true it varies with each person.  But... there comes a point .. when you have pushed a person Too Far~ and there is no going back for them... or YOU!
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: MaronaPossessed on July 20, 2016, 03:03:44 pm
That guy...
*grabs knife* YOU LIKE SMILING SO MUCH?! LET ME CUT A SMILE INTO YOU.

YOU WILL NEVER. STOP. SMILING. :D
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: SAGG on July 20, 2016, 07:48:34 pm
Yeah, okay, I get it now. My original thought is back about the sponsors wanting them to move up...
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on July 22, 2016, 04:32:43 am
Bern's character is built around her integrity, though she has been shown to be willingly violent when the lives of people she cares about are endangered such as when Suspiria dropped Maytag from the sky or when she threatened the healer when Grant was dying. Good thing neither of those two died, but hoo boy, Polly is most probably dead. I don't know how I feel about Bern trying to kill everyone (or even threaten to do so), because killing people I cold blood has been against her code since uh… forever. I would like to see how Bernadette is going to uphold her mentality that she won't kill anyone if she doesn't have to. Her character is really going to be challenged here and yeah, I'm really mad if that's what Polly's death is going to be reduced to; something that forces Bern to have to change.

…also while I'm not okay with the premise of Bern murdering anyone, I am heavily in favor of Bern punching this guy in the teeth, if only to get him to shut the ever loving heck up.

Yeah it is. Funny thing about snapping and going on a rampage though. It's still you, it's just the logical extreme of who you are. That is, if Bern went on this sort of rampage...

Bern going on a rampage would be, basically, an extremely angry person with integrity, insane with grief but doing noticeably a minimal amount of harm to innocent lives. All the same, on second thought, that would be a little dark even for this comic.

Quote
Good thing the warden is there with his sincere used car salesman smile to propose the deal of the century. Stringing along? Nonsense, the management is wholly unresponsible for this fully unexpected and unfortunate turn of events. It is only in our vastly infinite generosity that we propose an equitable solution with an insignificant cost compared to the expenses deployed for it. Truly, you are in our (infinite) debt.

Also still possible, perhaps being the more affordable option, would be having the poison causing a realistic simulation of death and having the healer lying.

Until Bern realizes there was never any debt to begin with, and the entire incident was caused by a needlessly obstructive doctor who could have made an exception for someone's loved one. "First do no harm." Someone's dying, you heal them first and then prepare the IOU. Any debt she has was between her and the doctor, and could have been paid off simply by giving her name and residence. Instead, we have trumped up jail charge that is actually tenfold of what the actual debt would be (there is no way it would take her months to pay off what was a minor healing and recompense for threatening).

But, yea, you're in "our" debt now. For a low low price of 50 million marks, we can revive her. Also, you'll have to fight for S-Rank from now.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: MaronaPossessed on July 22, 2016, 01:15:52 pm
What is this guy implying...
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: mittfh on July 24, 2016, 03:16:33 pm
What is this guy implying...

It wouldn't surprise me if he then goes onto say resurrection isn't cheap, followed by a load of bull which translates as "we want to keep you two around as long as possible, as you're very good for business."
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on July 25, 2016, 04:32:17 am
Remember when this guy said something about the guy who used to run the Colosseum and how they'd be getting raped right now? They still wound up both being forced to have sex to pay off their debts.

I'm hoping when these two finally do come out on top, this smarmy guy gets his just desserts.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: Caffinator on July 25, 2016, 10:11:10 am
Yeah, I'm calling this guy's bluff. In fact, I would be VERY surprised if he wasn't involved in setting up the situation in the first place. He already said that she was too valuable to let her stay dead. How "convenient" that she's dead by means that are easy to reverse. Do you really think the other team will be punished if they were doing this guy's bidding? They're probably getting some kind of preferential treatment now. Of course Bern is in no emotional state to call his bluff and he knows it.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: monimoni on July 25, 2016, 02:36:10 pm
Well, it's not like she has a choice..
What I don't really get is why they presented them with the choice to stay in A-rank in the first place. If they wanted them in S-rank, why not simply inform them they will be fighting in S-rank from now on, just like they told Bern she will no longer fight alongside Polly? They don't really have rights to begin with, right? Was it a ploy to keep Polly there forever (dart aimed at Bernadette), or perhaps start a new "auction" like before? 
What would've happened if the guy never got to shoot?
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: Kiran on July 26, 2016, 09:32:05 am
Well, it's not like she has a choice..
What I don't really get is why they presented them with the choice to stay in A-rank in the first place. If they wanted them in S-rank, why not simply inform them they will be fighting in S-rank from now on, just like they told Bern she will no longer fight alongside Polly? They don't really have rights to begin with, right? Was it a ploy to keep Polly there forever (dart aimed at Bernadette), or perhaps start a new "auction" like before? 
What would've happened if the guy never got to shoot?
The answer is simple, the guy who is the administrator of the arena doesn't want to force anyone officialy to do something what they don't want to do, new policy and all that, he wants to keep the good clean guy image of what the Marvallo ruler now wants and supports, he instead uses ugly tactics to make them do it out of their own "free" will where in reality they don't have a choice at all on the matter.

Bern choice here is either to let Polly stay dead as reward for saving her or be forced to do something ugly and/or grow their debt to stay there longer, I really doubt it will be just about moving to S rank seeing how this guy acts.

After all he can easily say now that to Bern and Polly tab there will be added 2000 marks cause the ressurrection of someone is more expensive than just saving someone liver, he can pretty much blackmail Bern into doing anything he wants(like torture someone or become sex slave for free) and add to that more marks to keep them both here for longer. Then after some time he will repeat some underhanded move on them which will again worsen their situation and make their debt grow larger, it can go forever till the prisoners won't give up and will just remain in their cells, or till they won't bring profit anymore. I can't really see an escape from this, maybe May coming here after her part of story will be done and will buy out Polly and Bern with her winning gold instead of doing that radio show...

I feel really sorry for Bern here, May in her worst situation had only one monster to deal with her wits, here Bern and Polly are surrounded by monsters in human form to who they don't mean anything more than being a peace of meat to use and sell to earn money and in reality they can't do anything against them cause there's simply too many of them here. So far we didn't see one positive person who would take their side of their good will or just plain empathy, I had some hope for Warden wanting to remove the leading guy and move the arena into more respectable position but then all the paying supporters would never allow it and it looks the Warden knows it, I wouldn't be surprised if we learned that the Warden herself is an arena prisoner who is still paying off her debt...
I had some hope that maybe the ruler of Marvallo to who Polly served in that task force would somehow help her but clearly he doesn't really give a shit about anyone who is sentenced to the prison.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: monimoni on July 26, 2016, 12:38:21 pm
Truly terrible situation. I am curious to see under which circumstances the characters will meet again..
Quote
I wouldn't be surprised if we learned that the Warden herself is an arena prisoner who is still paying off her debt
That would be interesting. Possibly an ex-prisoner who survived S-rank. Would explain her attitude.

Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on July 27, 2016, 11:06:12 am

The answer is simple, the guy who is the administrator of the arena doesn't want to force anyone officialy to do something what they don't want to do, new policy and all that, he wants to keep the good clean guy image of what the Marvallo ruler now wants and supports, he instead uses ugly tactics to make them do it out of their own "free" will where in reality they don't have a choice at all on the matter.

Bern choice here is either to let Polly stay dead as reward for saving her or be forced to do something ugly and/or grow their debt to stay there longer, I really doubt it will be just about moving to S rank seeing how this guy acts.

After all he can easily say now that to Bern and Polly tab there will be added 2000 marks cause the ressurrection of someone is more expensive than just saving someone liver, he can pretty much blackmail Bern into doing anything he wants(like torture someone or become sex slave for free) and add to that more marks to keep them both here for longer. Then after some time he will repeat some underhanded move on them which will again worsen their situation and make their debt grow larger, it can go forever till the prisoners won't give up and will just remain in their cells, or till they won't bring profit anymore. I can't really see an escape from this, maybe May coming here after her part of story will be done and will buy out Polly and Bern with her winning gold instead of doing that radio show...

I feel really sorry for Bern here, May in her worst situation had only one monster to deal with her wits, here Bern and Polly are surrounded by monsters in human form to who they don't mean anything more than being a peace of meat to use and sell to earn money and in reality they can't do anything against them cause there's simply too many of them here. So far we didn't see one positive person who would take their side of their good will or just plain empathy, I had some hope for Warden wanting to remove the leading guy and move the arena into more respectable position but then all the paying supporters would never allow it and it looks the Warden knows it, I wouldn't be surprised if we learned that the Warden herself is an arena prisoner who is still paying off her debt...
I had some hope that maybe the ruler of Marvallo to who Polly served in that task force would somehow help her but clearly he doesn't really give a shit about anyone who is sentenced to the prison.

Yeah, this is a straight up leonine bargain (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LeonineContract). Someone should tell him that this sort of thing is against the law, and he should be arrested for it.

Warden has seemed to be on her side, and will probably help if she can. On the other hand, this guy will try anything to get her to stay enslaved. She doesn't need his "help". Polly probably isn't dead anyway, this poison probably just makes her look dead, and she can't really die here anyway.

http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=2063

These are the sponsors. The people that the Warden needs to kill to make this place even half-decent.

http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=2065
http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=2067
http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=2069

And this guy. Did you notice, at no point did he give his name? It's because his name is Harker (http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=2123) (he didn't say "I'm not Harker" he's said "Harker's not in charge"). He's the evil rapist, he's just sorta like Nevets in Deltora Quest, it was a personality that got forcibly suppressed with magic or something. That's right. It seems like things have improved, but until the major authorities mentioned above are removed, nothing has changed it's still a rigged game, not a working justice system.

Also, don't get your hopes up too high about Maytag buying her freedom. It's heavily implied that May's in a equally rigged game (there's a reason he can usually keep his winnings, so that probably means there is something that kills most people who pass 3rd stage), and once things don't work out for her, the monster maid will make her into some type of freak.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: monimoni on July 27, 2016, 07:08:40 pm
A bit late to be figuring that out, miss Bernadette...
An escape of some sort seems highly likely now
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on July 28, 2016, 10:25:34 am
Any escape she makes will need to involve dispensing with this guy. Which Bern is completely unwilling to do.

I didn't imagine this thing being anywhere near this high.

They should agree to loads and loads of those entertainment deals. Torturing and killing prisoners, sex, whatever.

What we're looking at is pretty much the same difference as D-Rank. What's the difference between high risk because you're at the bottom, and high risk because you're at the top? They seriously just wanted to serve their time and be out of here. Anything they can do to pay this down will help.

At 50 marks a fight, this is 6 years. At 100, 3 years (but she likely will suck at these battles). And those entertainment things are probably 100 a time, once a week subtracting 5200 a year... per person...  that should cut their years down to 5, just for once a week at A-Rank. If she proved good at the other stuff (sex or torture), they might let her go quicker. But first, they would have to kill this guy quietly and burn the body (pretty sure turning to dust is a way to get someone to stay dead).   

...Bern should have chosen prison. A few months, she'd serve her time and be out.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on July 28, 2016, 12:49:32 pm
Nope.  I'm not thinking this is going to fly with Bernadette.

Pushed. Too. Far.  Things are about to get... medieval.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on July 28, 2016, 02:21:10 pm
Well, that or she'll say "You can take your deal, and suck my **** with it."

Of course, all three options are bad.
Refusing but not escaping means paying down the remainder of 5000 marks, and there's also no telling that they won't try some equally underhanded trick. This is Warden's advice earlier (http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=2125). 
Escaping means she will be hunted everywhere, and unable to sleep safely. They may even send arena contestants promised their freedom (pffft) for killing her. Not being able to sleep safely isn't real freedom.
Finally, there is Polly. She could keep her alive (and probably will, because she's kind) and it would greatly increase her chances because Polly is the other part of her team. But doing so would make her stuck here. On the other hand, if she wanted to forget about May and just be with Polly, it's bearable (but there is no telling they won't try this again).

The issue is, it was tough fighting solo  in A-Rank, because her heavy defense needs an offense counterpart. If she goes with option 1, she will have to basically do both parts. The title is unclear (all three options create a scar of sorts), but I think this may be the option she'll pick. May is the one she loves, and she needs to get out and see her.


 
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: mittfh on July 28, 2016, 02:57:55 pm
What is this guy implying...

It wouldn't surprise me if he then goes onto say resurrection isn't cheap, followed by a load of bull which translates as "we want to keep you two around as long as possible, as you're very good for business."

OK, so it didn't happen exactly like that, but I was pretty darn close...

They're popular with the crowds so are very good for business, and with 3-6 years to pay off the debt for resurrecting Polly, he's certainly intending to keep them around as long as possible. He's so smarmy I wouldn't put it past him to try a stunt like that again when they near the end of their term if they're still as popular.

Which then raises the question of mechanisms by which they can leave the Colosseum (alive!) before their time is up (assuming Brion's planning to reunite Bern and May sometime within the next decade [our time]). Following the end of this chapter, Bern's story's likely to be in a holding pattern pending an external agent interfering.

Which then leaves time for May to get as far as she can with Lehm (and get some form of financial reward) and Crest to find Suspira. May's preferred approach would almost certainly be to take the reward for helping Lehm and use it to bail out Bern (and by extension Polly) rather than launching her own Stone Show. Whether Polly would remain in Marvallo is another matter entirely - going into the Colosseum that would have been her intention, but whether her own personal views of her country have changed since witnessing the Colosseum remains to be seen. If, by any chance, Bern and her leave the Colosseum by means other than a bail payment, it might not be safe to hang around in Marvallo...
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on July 28, 2016, 05:31:04 pm
Well, she can ditch Polly and put all her effort into leaving as quickly as possible. As I see it, this might be the most effective way to ensure she doesn't get manipulated anymore (it would be pretty callous, but nobody would blame her) is to just do it all herself with the original 5000.

1. Ditch Polly. Pay off 5000 marks (remaining)
2. Raise Polly. Work for 6 years.
3. Stage a jail break now.

Or

4. Raise Polly. Stage a jail break.

4 is her best option, as it has the most success chance. But this is unlikely as it doesn't fit the chapter title.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: mittfh on July 29, 2016, 12:33:02 am
Given his comment at the end of Page 31 ("You didn't actually believe we'd let one of our star A-ranked fighters stay dead, did you? She's worth far too much! We simply must bring her back!"), Option (1) can likely be discounted - they'll resurrect her and put it on the team's tab regardless of what May thinks. Given the Colosseum is a jail filled with fighters, I'd find it exceedingly unlikely they haven't considered the possibility of prisoners attempting to escape, so both (3) and (4) look unlikely without outside assistance.

However, we're currently on Page 33, and chapters are always exactly 30 or 60 pages long, we've got a lot of story left before returning to May vs Lehm and Crest vs Suspira, so they're not going to enter a "holding pattern" any time soon.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on July 29, 2016, 06:08:26 am
Actually, Bern does have a "choice". However, the house always wins.

I expect if she did choose option 1, they would sneak in a couple of S-Ranks into the "A-Rank" challenge, or perhaps tell her that option one has consequences. Those consequences would likely be taking on the full debt and possibly being forced to do S-Rank anyway.

I think the one advantage Bern has remaining, is that the arena doesn't really know how her swords work. Just that they are defensive somehow. This works in her favor if she does want to escape.

Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: monimoni on July 29, 2016, 09:09:25 am
Quote
Well, she can ditch Polly and put all her effort into leaving as quickly as possible. As I see it, this might be the most effective way to ensure she doesn't get manipulated anymore (it would be pretty callous, but nobody would blame her) is to just do it all herself with the original 5000.

1. Ditch Polly. Pay off 5000 marks (remaining)

If she was May maybe she would've done this, or coldly negotiate her way out. I don't really see this happening, it's completely out of her character. At least I hope she won't do it.
That said, having Polly around was the worst idea ever.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on July 29, 2016, 11:15:17 am
Quote
Well, she can ditch Polly and put all her effort into leaving as quickly as possible. As I see it, this might be the most effective way to ensure she doesn't get manipulated anymore (it would be pretty callous, but nobody would blame her) is to just do it all herself with the original 5000.

1. Ditch Polly. Pay off 5000 marks (remaining)

If she was May maybe she would've done this, or coldly negotiate her way out. I don't really see this happening, it's completely out of her character. At least I hope she won't do it.
That said, having Polly around was the worst idea ever.

Yeah, it's uhhh at the absolute limit of her personality, basically only if Polly came back for a few seconds and told her "don't do it, I'm not worth it." It'd basically be like telling a devout Jew or something to work on Sabbath.

That said, it's in character with the advice given by the Warden earlier. And the cost is simply too high. She's basically paying for a house to keep her friend around. I can see her doing that for May, but Polly? Dunno.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: MaronaPossessed on July 29, 2016, 02:43:39 pm
Dammit the suspense is killing me here T_T
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: SAGG on July 29, 2016, 03:04:16 pm
And now, here's the warden to really rub it in Bern's face. Is everyone here trying to poke Bern to flip out...?
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on July 29, 2016, 03:12:52 pm
Actually, Warden is helping. She's been helping (see the incident where Bern got her sword). She just believes in tough love.

She's here to give a counter-offer to emotionally fragile Bern who is eager to leap at ANY deal no matter how insane the cost.

Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: monimoni on July 29, 2016, 03:45:25 pm
Yup. I could see some new deal coming up. I refuse to believe that Bern would actually ditch Polly. I'm wondering if she actually has that choice anyway, since they "simply must bring her back, she's worth far too much"; question is, who's paying. 
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: Caffinator on July 31, 2016, 07:07:09 am
Yup. I could see some new deal coming up. I refuse to believe that Bern would actually ditch Polly. I'm wondering if she actually has that choice anyway, since they "simply must bring her back, she's worth far too much"; question is, who's paying.

Agreed. Bern has a very heavily weighed down conscience. She already feels that the whole situation is her own fault and that Polly has repeatedly stepped in to help when she didn't have to. As such, she feels like she owes Polly probably more than she really does. Unless the warden offers a preferable option, she'll accept the cost - her conscience will make her feel that she's "letting" Polly die if she doesn't.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on July 31, 2016, 08:36:38 am
The 'REAL' question.. is why does the Warden give a damn about how abused or taken advantage of the gentle spirited Bern is being treated by the Arena controllers?

What's SHE getting out of helping Bern?  I've never really understood that.  Why would she care if Bern was not ready for fighting in the Ranks above "D"?  What's it to HER if Bern gets wacked in her first fight?  That's part of the "spectacle" that the Audiences come to see anyways {sick bastards everyone of them}!

I'm still thinking there may be some blood-relation between the Warden and Bern that she does not know.  Maybe the Warden is an older sister or an aunt or her mother even?  We've never heard {afaIk}..anything about Bernadette's mother!
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on July 31, 2016, 03:26:02 pm
The 'REAL' question.. is why does the Warden give a damn about how abused or taken advantage of the gentle spirited Bern is being treated by the Arena controllers?

What's SHE getting out of helping Bern?  I've never really understood that.  Why would she care if Bern was not ready for fighting in the Ranks above "D"?  What's it to HER if Bern gets wacked in her first fight?  That's part of the "spectacle" that the Audiences come to see anyways {sick bastards everyone of them}!

I'm still thinking there may be some blood-relation between the Warden and Bern that she does not know.  Maybe the Warden is an older sister or an aunt or her mother even?  We've never heard {afaIk}..anything about Bernadette's mother!

I believe she does. Look back at both of her deals. They involve some serious stuff, but at the end of it...

All of this for a lot less effort than would be the case if Harker (in the absence of a name, that's it) set the agenda for battles. She would still be struggling through D-Rank, and likely not get fed by now. Oh wait, I thought the question was "does she really give a damn?"

As to the WHY part, I have a theory. I don't think it's actually said, but I think those running the arena are effectively running a prison, not somewhere that someone is allowed to escape. Warden probably was the best fighter there, the top S-Rank or even Super S-Rank. She got to the point where she would have paid the marks off, but then there was something where friends she made were forced into S-Rank. She made some kinda deal where she could (a) watch them die from being outclassed, or (b) take their marks and work for the Arena forever. So she freed alot of people, but officially hates the arena now, because she is stuck there due to her sacrifice. She figures that Bern has a shot of screwing up the Arena once and for all, so she's backing her. 

Warden knows Bern is tough, from their spar with each other. She knows Bern can do stuff, and she knows she isn't like the others, tempted by promises of hurting other people. This makes her a bit of a wild card because she is not interested in battles for their own sake, she just wants to leave. So yea, I think she actually feels the Arena is messed up, and she is backing someone that she thinks has potential to do something about it.

As for... family resemblance, well, let's take a look at them.

...Noses don't look the same (http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=2105). Bern has what looks like a Greek Nose, Warden has what is called a Turn-Up (http://i2.wp.com/www.rankerlist.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/nose_types.jpg). Noses usually are a good way to determine genetics. Neither do ears. 


Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: Wulf on August 01, 2016, 12:06:18 pm
Well, the assistance from the Warden has certainly taken a more direct step now. It's also peculiar that the guards do not seems to be doing much compared to their rather good earlier reaction time. I do wonder if it's based on that the Warden has the higher real authority or just fear.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: MaronaPossessed on August 01, 2016, 01:55:00 pm
Yes! I love you Warden <33333
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: monimoni on August 01, 2016, 02:45:30 pm
Awesome! So all is clear now.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on August 01, 2016, 08:58:10 pm
I think this asshole is about to get ousted. And Bern might well get a new deal. Given Warden's mentality, it definitely won't be easy (she doesn't do handouts), but it's unlikely to be six years of grueling torture.

Also, awesomest page ever. It was so satisfying, even if things later turn for the worse.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: SAGG on August 02, 2016, 07:04:31 am
Well, now, THIS is a surprise. It appears the Warden is fair after all. Can't wait to see how it goes....
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: TheCollector on August 02, 2016, 03:56:25 pm
I love the warden now!
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: Wulf on August 03, 2016, 04:14:00 pm
The administrator is probably the actual official person in charge, considering the guards did appears to consider the consequences for a second or two. Rather weak compared to the de facto authority, though.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: Puyon on August 03, 2016, 04:39:16 pm
haha mate's frickin' dead, rest in pieces buddy
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on August 03, 2016, 08:23:59 pm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consent_of_the_governed

Legitimacy is upheld by one of two things:

1. Physical skill (or magical power)
2. Cunning

Cunning gets cheap and dirty tricks done. And it does make a good ruler if it is combined with actual benevolence, becoming wisdom. Physical skill allows one to hold power in a martial situation (the fear effect). But either of these depends on consent of the governed. If the person is brutal but they still don't care for them, that is loss of consent.

We may not like tyrants, but they are people who can hold their power because people fear them. Pretty much the sentiment straight from Machiavelli's The Prince, which I gather doesn't exist in this universe. Plus, they know she is honest and decent so they also to some extent respect her, unlike this worthless snake.
Kinda like Aslan in Narnia, the White Witch kinda was good at tricking people, but c'mon Aslan was a freaking lion. Kinda a goodass (versus badass). Warden is tough as nails, but also pretty decent. And everyone knows it. Didn't even need to raise her voice. 
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: MaronaPossessed on August 04, 2016, 09:00:47 am
Ooo this guy got burned <333
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: SAGG on August 05, 2016, 01:49:09 pm
Perfect Punishment: Get this jerk into the arena to fight for marks. What rank depends on say, a drawing of sticks, or numbers on a piece of paper, whatever.... :)
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: Kiran on August 06, 2016, 10:42:27 am
So how many of us would love to be under Warden's boot too?

If Warden was indeed fair to all here as she presents herself, she should make the guy pay the marks needed for Polly resurrection which he intentionally caused which was a crime in breaking this place rules since she is looking to be truly neutral to all and rules apply to all evenly.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: SAGG on August 06, 2016, 03:00:03 pm
So how many of us would love to be under Warden's boot too?

If Warden was indeed fair to all here as she presents herself, she should make the guy pay the marks needed for Polly resurrection which he intentionally caused which was a crime in breaking this place rules since she is looking to be truly neutral to all and rules apply to all evenly.
And get him replaced....
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: IronSoul on August 06, 2016, 06:07:06 pm
Warden's always been fair and sometimes more than fair--she's just been fair in terms of the legitimate rules and consequences of the Colosseum. When Bernadette was ranked as a D for not fighting, that was her own fault. When she let Polly do the work, or the D Rank teammates, that was also Bern's fault. When Bern was set up for a slaughter match, she tried to at least give Bern a ghost of a chance to push through. Realistically, the entire mess Bern's been in--up until now--has been her own mistakes.

However, the administrator got greedy and tried to force Bern into indenturing herself further into the system, because of no fault of her own, and quite the opposite.

That's why Warden interjected now on Bern's behalf, and why she's always been fair.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on August 07, 2016, 02:07:03 pm
So how many of us would love to be under Warden's boot too?

If Warden was indeed fair to all here as she presents herself, she should make the guy pay the marks needed for Polly resurrection which he intentionally caused which was a crime in breaking this place rules since she is looking to be truly neutral to all and rules apply to all evenly.

Agree with everything. The guy just used force to rig the system.

I also agree with the first part. :D Also, when I first heard the song "Royals" by Lorde, and she said "you can call me Queen Bee" that's actually the vibe I got, that the song was not just about anti-materialism but also some BDSM subtext.

And IronSoul, this is completely the point. The difference between a person bringing trouble on themselves, and someone being exploited. Warden is all about the Arena actually being run the right way.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: TheCollector on August 07, 2016, 09:37:34 pm
Oh yeah, going by her comment in the last panel The Warden is so gonna have Polly resurrected and have him pay the marks. Oh I would so so love if the chapter ending with the new administrator reciting the same speech he did to Bern & Polly when they first arrived.

Here's hoping Bern doesn't do something stupid like refuse to let the Warden do it and say she'll pay the marks her self because of nobel bullshit. It won't happen I'm sure, but Bern has done stupid things in the past that has me worry.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on August 08, 2016, 09:09:48 am
Oh yeah, going by her comment in the last panel The Warden is so gonna have Polly resurrected and have him pay the marks. Oh I would so so love if the chapter ending with the new administrator reciting the same speech he did to Bern & Polly when they first arrived.

Here's hoping Bern doesn't do something stupid like refuse to let the Warden do it and say she'll pay the marks her self because of nobel bullshit. It won't happen I'm sure, but Bern has done stupid things in the past that has me worry.

Well, it wouldn't be exactly the same. This admin has a different "penchant". I would like that, if they showed Polly and Bern walking out, and passing a new entrant who heard the speech. Given by Warden. "The Arena was bad for awhile. The administrator before the last tended to rape people. The last administrator would pull stuff like poisoning people and putting them into debt for resurrection. And the sponsors would often pay off marks by removing limbs, torture, or group sex. But I took care of them. I crushed the last administrator's spine, and cleaned house with the rest of the sponsors. It took a lot of murder though (cue equally horrified expressions (http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=2069))."

I think it's kinda interesting the names used. This guy is an Administrator. Warden is not only a name but a title. When I think of Administrators, I think of two models: tech geeks that largely stay out of the way, and power freaks that manage webforums and have a reputation for banning people for straight-up censorship reasons under the excuse of "trolling" (someone said something that they have they right to say but is politically opposite of them, or similar). A Warden on the other hand, is typically a groundskeeper. They manage the land, technically, but their work involves care rather than authority, and is much more hands-off. 
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on August 08, 2016, 09:51:09 am
Oh no.  I think the Warden has a cruel steak she's about to show in living color...
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: MaronaPossessed on August 08, 2016, 10:59:55 am
Um...Warden? I'm getting some mixed signals here...
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: Wulf on August 08, 2016, 04:04:42 pm
This is when the Warden pulls out a credit card with some kind of reward system and the commercial jingle starts playing.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on August 08, 2016, 04:30:46 pm
Quote
Oh no.  I think the Warden has a cruel steak she's about to show in living color...

I am thinking what she means by "I'll pay for it" is "you won't be around to pay for it."

She'll either lock him away at D-Rank or prison. If he's lucky. If not, well...
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on August 09, 2016, 06:54:27 am
She'll either lock him away at D-Rank or prison. If he's lucky. If not, well...

...there's always room in the magical flesh-pits.  You didn't think they replace all the severed limbs in the arena with the time consuming regrown ones when perfectly transplantable ones are available from condemned prisoners?
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on August 09, 2016, 09:07:34 am
Pfffft, that reminded me of this.

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/92253492337328571/

And this totally sounds like something the Arena would do.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: Puyon on August 10, 2016, 12:48:52 pm
i actually didn't expect him to die haha bye bye admin, nobody's gonna miss you but i think Bern might have some objection to this
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on August 10, 2016, 02:33:24 pm
OH Snap!

Meh, he was a dirtbag... good riddance!  I think Bern is just shocked the Warden just unilaterally ..judged, sentenced and executed this jerk... talk about Swift justice!
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: SAGG on August 10, 2016, 02:56:06 pm
Well, I did not expect THAT. Well played, Brion! ;)
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on August 10, 2016, 05:14:51 pm
I dunno if you'll use this or not (it's a common trope in fiction because it seems unbelievable, and because it hinders storytelling), Brion, but just as a heads up, choking someone to death is incredibly difficult. If the windpipe isn't completely closed or if pressure is released, even if they fall unconscious, consciousness resumes after about 10 seconds. So this deal you always see where it's choke then dead, nope.   

http://www.pottstown.org/DocumentCenter/View/211

Although snapping his neck would be perfectly legit. We're going to assume that happened.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: monimoni on August 11, 2016, 05:07:32 am
Uh okay. He was a sleazy scumbag, but that was a bit excessive maybe? Would've been cool to see him fight in D-rank for all those marks. Or is she making him pay for Polly's life with.. his life? 
Quote
choking someone to death is incredibly difficult.
Except when you have a magical chain thing that can catch a flying metal ball at full-speed. Also to me it looks like she was crushing his neck for quite a while before he died.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on August 11, 2016, 12:50:35 pm
Well, as I say, crushing the windpipe =/= manually choking to death. Completely different story. One has to be done by someone creepy enough to keep choking someone after KO, the other stops airflow and that's it.

On the topic of death and medicine, let's talk instead about resurrection. Why do you think poison-based death is one of the easiest to come back from? My guess is that resurrection doesn't actually heal, it just restarts things, making it similar to an adrenaline. The body begins pumping blood again, and the poison gets flushed from the heart (which it stopped before when it entered), to the liver, and then out the body. But I'd like a separate opinion on how this works.   
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: TheCollector on August 11, 2016, 09:43:11 pm
Yeah!
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: MaronaPossessed on August 12, 2016, 06:15:28 am
I want a Warden plushie now.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on August 12, 2016, 12:38:16 pm
I want a Warden plushie now.

"...You'll take a spiked heel.. And LIKE IT!"  ;)
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: TheCollector on August 12, 2016, 10:58:17 pm
I want a Warden plushie now.
I need a Warden plushie now.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: weirdguy on August 13, 2016, 05:44:33 am
The story's narrative direction almost got derailed with the preceding overly dramatic events seemingly written just to make Bernadette suffer for personal growth in implausible situations, but it makes a bit of a recovery with these last few pages even though it's still riding the edge there as it maintains its grip on the consistency of the law of the arena. Frankly the expectation that Bernadette should somehow learn street smarts within the span of all these events is a bit much, because there isn't much breathing room in the pacing for her to attain character development in a satisfying way. Between all the major events, nothing has really happened to give her enough opportunity to absorb any useful information that wouldn't also end up pushing her too far in the other direction (or giving conflicting advice) and having it turn out worse than before. The two characters have been able to develop their relationship, but that's about it here, besides getting that chekhov's offhand sword in the process. The longform story format where scenes were slower paced had more of an impact than trying to push the story along without any apparent reason as to why it's necessary.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: SAGG on August 14, 2016, 11:49:31 pm
"No warden, I don't think the coliseum is an evil place. I KNOW it's an evil place." 
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on August 15, 2016, 05:00:30 am
Well we can now tell the Warden is at least a "believer"... not just a cynical burn-out who just turned out to be the baddest of the 'bad-assess' and had nothing better to do with her life... 'so why not run a prison of darn near sociopathicaly violent miscreants with magic and a lust for bloodshed'?

She...at least on the surface claims to have effectively made a philosophically profound choice to see to it Justice of a sorts is meted out to these criminals... though I'm still reticent to call what their getting here as "Justice".
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on August 15, 2016, 07:44:09 am
This very much reminds me of the Underworld in Once Upon A Time.

It was supposed to be a place where people dealt with unresolved issues. But Hades was a punk and basically broke the way the place worked. It took someone who was decent and understood the purpose of the place to redeem it.

Likewise, this should be a place where violent people deal with their violence, and are either redeemed into society or dealt with (those who can't control the urge to kill should get punished, while those who fight fair and show mercy can pay off their marks). Instead, people like Bern who have learned their lesson and just want to leave, get rigged to keep fighting, while people like (most of those guys) are given perks or incentives to fight dirty.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: monimoni on August 16, 2016, 06:28:23 am
So she killed Harker. I'm a big fan.
The idea seems pretty legit, but one has to wonder if this system has any positive effects in the long-term, for the society. I mean, the purpose should be to re-educate the criminals, not use them for entertainment, and then to churn them out more hardened, experienced, and violent than ever. So of course it profits off of human bloodlust.

Anyways, I really like the art in the second panel :)
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on August 16, 2016, 09:40:36 am
I dunno about that.

Our current criminal justice system places reasonably nonviolent criminals in the same cell with violent ones. There is no separation contrary to what one might think. As a result, typically minor felons come out hardened, as a result of being raped or abused, and clean felons come out addicted.

Here, the choice and incentive system means nonviolent ones shy away from the risk of battle despite the fact that it can get them out quicker. The violent ones embrace the Colosseum for its ability to get them out quicker and the relative self-determination. This is just. Our justice system is not, as it mixes nonviolent with violent (in fact the maximum security sometimes fudges information to keep their prisons less overfilled), whereas this neatly separates prisoners.

Now, what about the other aspect, reintroduction to society? Well, it helps here too. If you are extremely violent you get penalized. If you get penalized enough, you get D Rank and then death matches. There is some amount of self-enforcement here, as the most violent and brutal people will volunteer to be on the other end of this. Likewise, the best fighters, the most brutal, are sent to S-Rank where it is high likelihood you will accidentally die, because everyone is fighting no-holds-barred at full strength. Between these two extremes are A, B, and C Rank. In these three, lie the majority of the criminals. They are here and love to fight, but also teachable. What is the first thing they are taught?

Restraint. That extreme violence is punished, and that they must fight without killing.

Recall that this country is a constitutional anarchy. If you want to do gladiatorial style fighting in the cities, there is probably an acceptable outlet for it. Mass murder, on the other hand, is force. Force is not allowed.     
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: SAGG on August 16, 2016, 01:27:48 pm
So, Bern is a violent criminal, the same for Polly? Bern wanted to help her father. Polly's there for Bern. Warden, your logic, however well-thought out, is flawed. Your country is flawed and screwed-up, the same for their system. Forcing them to fight for their freedom really does nothing to rehabilitate the violent criminals. If anything, it reinforces their violent tendencies. Screwy, that's what it is, screwy....
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: monimoni on August 16, 2016, 02:40:52 pm
As far as I remember, there were different ways to pay off marks that you could choose from. Bern's situation is a bit different in that she never really had a choice, since Polly insisted she pay off half her marks. The condition was that they take the Colosseum route. It was kind of a mistake/bad luck that she ended up here. I would rather see her doing community service of some sort.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: Kiran on August 18, 2016, 09:32:39 am
So, Bern is a violent criminal, the same for Polly? Bern wanted to help her father. Polly's there for Bern. Warden, your logic, however well-thought out, is flawed. Your country is flawed and screwed-up, the same for their system. Forcing them to fight for their freedom really does nothing to rehabilitate the violent criminals. If anything, it reinforces their violent tendencies. Screwy, that's what it is, screwy....
I don't buy Warden logic either, she and this whole justice system treats the same a person who would willingly and joyfully harm, torture and beat up another human being with a person like Bern(and also Polly in a way)who just forced someone into saving another person life as the big crime while not harming anyone in the process...
Hell in normal case Bern should just get a fine and a time to repay it, either with borrowed money from Polly or as working as bodyguard, than being sent in prison without any kind of fair judgement.
The system is flawed as hell and Warden killing another incompetent corrupt adminsitrator won't make things better if the system is not working in the first place.
Fixing violent criminals by making them spread more violence in fights or in extra night tasks to become sex slaves or to cut or torture others for wealthy sponsors wants and fetishes?
Everything points to idea that Warden is indeed a former prisoner who is either so rich who decided herself to correct and keep the whole system in check, or she has so much marks "earned" during her time that her only real choice as best fighter who can never leave arena now is to be a Warden for the rest of her life.

Also did they forget that Polly for the time of their conversation stays dead and her brain doesn't get needed precious oxygen from some time now?
I know this is magical world but even if they will manage to fix her brain and regenerate all nerves and connections in it due to magical nanites system so it would work properly, but the lack of oxygen time for the brain cells to die can make her completely different person after revival process who can even forget Bern or who she was.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: SAGG on August 18, 2016, 01:00:04 pm
Looks as if Bern's about to verbally let the warden have it about the violence subject. Good...
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on August 19, 2016, 12:53:54 pm
So, Bern is a violent criminal, the same for Polly? Bern wanted to help her father. Polly's there for Bern. Warden, your logic, however well-thought out, is flawed. Your country is flawed and screwed-up, the same for their system. Forcing them to fight for their freedom really does nothing to rehabilitate the violent criminals. If anything, it reinforces their violent tendencies. Screwy, that's what it is, screwy....
I don't buy Warden logic either, she and this whole justice system treats the same a person who would willingly and joyfully harm, torture and beat up another human being with a person like Bern(and also Polly in a way)who just forced someone into saving another person life as the big crime while not harming anyone in the process...
Hell in normal case Bern should just get a fine and a time to repay it, either with borrowed money from Polly or as working as bodyguard, than being sent in prison without any kind of fair judgement.
The system is flawed as hell and Warden killing another incompetent corrupt adminsitrator won't make things better if the system is not working in the first place.
Fixing violent criminals by making them spread more violence in fights or in extra night tasks to become sex slaves or to cut or torture others for wealthy sponsors wants and fetishes?
Everything points to idea that Warden is indeed a former prisoner who is either so rich who decided herself to correct and keep the whole system in check, or she has so much marks "earned" during her time that her only real choice as best fighter who can never leave arena now is to be a Warden for the rest of her life.

Also did they forget that Polly for the time of their conversation stays dead and her brain doesn't get needed precious oxygen from some time now?
I know this is magical world but even if they will manage to fix her brain and regenerate all nerves and connections in it due to magical nanites system so it would work properly, but the lack of oxygen time for the brain cells to die can make her completely different person after revival process who can even forget Bern or who she was.

To understand why this is "just" you have to understand the mentality of this government.

Both countries are modern political systems taken to their logical absurdity.

This is a Republican hands-off state, Bern/May's country is a Democratic socialist hands-on state. The absurd degree of the latter is an omnipresent system with grossly high taxes in exchange for free medicine and other services. The former has no taxes, and people are completely free to do anything (including wander around buck naked or engage in weird sex fetishes) provided whatever they do does not force others to do something they don't want, and they have money to pay for it.

Basically, the difference between these two government styles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vc5Pkikeb4Y

So under this system, if Bern did something nonviolent like steal bread, this would not be a load of marks. What she did was threaten a medic at swordpoint. She also attacked three of the medic's guards. She also asked that a man basically rob from his own coffers to fund free medicine.

Update: I don't think Warden means it is wrong to want peace.

By timid ideals she means...

During Nazi Germany, Austria wanted peace. They got invaded, and had to flee. Saw a movie on it last night, the true story of the Von Trapped family. Poland wanted peace. They got invaded. France's defense sucked. Sorry.

England wanted peace, as in they didn't go around attacking other European countries. But they knew the reality of war. They dug it their heels, and said, "No. We are not going to lose our culture, our truth to the Germans. We are not going to let these guys brutalize our country. They may try, but we're better than that. They knock down our buildings we build them again. Night after night after night. And those of us that can fight back will fight back." America wanted peace. They officially stayed up of the war until Pearl harbor. But they did have some Jewish immigrants, and they did send some munitions under the table from what I hear. And after Pearl Harbor, they did fight back.

A pacifist is one who dislikes violence and bloodshed. A sadist is one who likes it. A realist is one who dislikes it, possibly even as much as the pacifist, but also knows you can't invite thousands of violent people into your country and expect nothing to happen.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on August 22, 2016, 09:23:18 am
^ Tooo TRUE!
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on August 22, 2016, 10:40:11 am
"How can you train in something you believe to be evil?"

Because there is a difference between using something to defend, and delighting in the suffering of others. If someone learned to use a sword or magic to hunt for good or to defend one's loved ones, we would find no fault in such a use. But a person learning to fight or use magic to burn people to cinder or cut people up for fun... would generally not be seen as a hero or martyr but a psychopath.
Violence should be used only to stop other violence, and mainly when other options are exhausted or there is a state of emergency. When people cause violence on the defenseless, can it ever be called "just"? No, rather, it is just to defend one's self and one's loved ones, and to put down other violence and oppression. Or in legal terms, this is the castle doctrine (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_doctrine).
Therefore, justice can be said to be a defensive thing. Justice is the use of power to set right what is wrong.

And words can sometimes stop violence. Especially when there is a cause rather than simple desire to harm.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on August 24, 2016, 12:56:05 pm
I agree with you miss Briefs... but I can see in Bern's eyes the Wardens words about 'See how much trouble you've caused for your friend? How well did you protect her?', and all the things Polly has suffered for Bern's sake MUST weigh heavy on Bern's mind indeed!
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on August 24, 2016, 05:45:05 pm
Good lord if this doesn't hit home.

I don't normally have to deal with overt violence, but the contradiction thing and the needing help thing.

I have this thing where because I basically had my parents pay off my student loans a bit at a time, I deeply dislike being in someone's debt. Asking for help. I also don't use a credit card. I have conflicting desires of wanting to be independent, but not alone. It seems like other people have a job and a marriage, or a job and friends, and I work hard but nothing happens except working to the point where I have nobody to come home to (too early or too late, and they all have gone home to bed or something). I also try to avoid expenses, and avoid telling people about potential issues, and then BOOM my car breaks down and it's a major issue that I can't afford, so they have to have help because I don't do credit.   

Bern can be straight up pacifist, and develop some nonlethal 100% knockout attack. Or she can just nix that thing and defend people with violence if it comes to that. But it's like Mr Miyagi said "Karate no, safe. Karate yes, safe. Karate mebbe so, sooner or later, get squished."
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: SAGG on August 25, 2016, 12:20:24 am
I'm sorry, but I thought Bern WAS strong myself, based on what we've seen from her adventures. But of course the warden hasn't read them as we have. ;D 
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on August 25, 2016, 07:37:32 pm
Well I do believe the Warden when she says she KNOWS Bern is strong not weak.. one cannot hold to such a pacifist world-view and not be strong, but what the Warden is getting at is basically Miss Brief's point.. you can't be a warrior maybe... you may fight or not fight..but when you take up the sword.. you have BY -DEFAULT choosen to use lethal force to fight for your beleifs... to look at at it in anyother way is Not respecting the sword of violence.. cause no matter how you use it ...no matter how Well you use it.. it is a Lethal weapon and eventually.. lethal force like it or not will be applied by those that take up the sword or have the sword taken up against them! 

Just like my master told me.. "The art of the sword is not a game.. it is not a sport... it is the art of killing.  I am teaching you how to kill.. if you Ever pick up a sword to use without that clear thought in mind.. whatever your intentions MAY be.. you are not taking responsibility for that Choice YOU made to take up the weapon of lethal force. You are NOT taking responsibility for the lives you are threatening.. you are Not respecting the weight of the decision you have made!  And if I Ever think you are doing THAT..I'll NEVER teach you again!"

That is not to say.. you must kill every time you draw a weapon of lethal force... but you must face that fact... you HAVE chosen to use lethal force and you WILL be held accountable for that choice Regardless of your intentions or your results!
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on August 26, 2016, 02:03:28 pm
Sorta what I said, and sorta not.

It's like Kenshin Himura. He never holds back, but the difference is that he uses non-lethal weapons or techniques. Not restraint. He is fully himself, which is to say an ex-killer.

He also makes a speech about this same topic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFcxlONaG6I

(13:50 or so)

You learn the fight with the sword without delusions. But this isn't the same as being axe-crazy.

You are using the sword with the idea that this sword fight will end someone's life. Does it always? No, or there would be no Colosseum. No Kendo matches. Etcetera. But without the sense of weight of what you are doing, and commitment to it, you will either do something you regret (by treating it like a game) or you will be defeated by your own ambivalence. This is not to say you must desire to kill, if it ends without such (due to it being training, using safe weapons, or dumb luck) be grateful for the battle not fought. But understand the commitment.

This is similar to marriage or the decision to have children. I fully loathe those who make these decisions lightly. Understand that like with the sword, this is an action with lasting consequences. You are bringing life into the world. You are spending life with another. Not to make the decision half-hearted, but to know what you are getting into. Is every child going to be well raised? Is every marriage going to last? No, but with the attitude that this isn't a serious commitment, you've made it into a joke. The other extreme is Bern's idea where fear prevents you from doing the thing when the time comes.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: Caffinator on August 26, 2016, 05:28:59 pm
I think the point here is there is a difference between violence as a tool and violence as recreation. In that regard, Bern and the Warden both have valid points. The arena partly exists to portray violence as as sport - a form of recreation. The warden insists that it's violence being used as a form of paying the debt to society for crimes. I don't agree with the warden on this point, but I agree that violence can be used as a tool if it is used without evil intent such as protecting someone.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: TheCollector on August 26, 2016, 08:06:18 pm
About damn time! Give all the awards to the Warden for actually getting something through Bern's thick thick thick skull. lol
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on August 27, 2016, 10:28:45 am
Polly is Soooo pretty! :)
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: monimoni on August 31, 2016, 10:08:22 am
D'aww, how cute. Interesting how Warden never brought up why somebody like Bernadette would end up in the Colosseum. 
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: monimoni on September 02, 2016, 03:43:23 pm
...seriously? That was it?
I hate to say it, but I absolutely disliked Bern in this arc. Yet again she is rescued by someone else, and then it's over. I hope we will get to see more of Warden, but seems unlikely. Meh.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on September 02, 2016, 04:25:41 pm
I might have liked to see that heartfelt reunion between Bern and Polly... but I'll admit that would be just Fan-Service. 

This chapter has been long and tumultuous ... and I can understand WHY Biron choose this way to get it over with... just a tad abrupt ..but that's ok by me... again a splash page of Bern and Polly Embracing in their reunion would have set it off so an ending like this would have been ok... but overall I'm cool with it anyways.

Also I think Biron's point is that Bernadette though an interesting character.. one I like a lot.. she is NOT the main character, she is not Conan with breasts... she is a pivotal supporting character... though some resolution between her father an her would have been nice to see some of that tied up.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: Puyon on September 02, 2016, 04:31:42 pm
that's awfully anticlimactic. I felt like they would have been there longer and I do have one question

What about that hooded figure on page 13. Who was she. That wasn't Warden, right? It can't be, right? I mean we have some time before the chapter ends so maybe it's too soon to be asking questions but this feels too abrupt to feel… safe  :-\
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on September 02, 2016, 08:03:36 pm
...seriously? That was it?
I hate to say it, but I absolutely disliked Bern in this arc. Yet again she is rescued by someone else, and then it's over. I hope we will get to see more of Warden, but seems unlikely. Meh.

There's something you're not following here.

Bern's a lone wolf. She normally fights alone, because her code doesn't allow her not to defend anyone else.

http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=976
http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=977

So the fact that she is actually allowing a team effort, for her to let other people help her out... it's a major step.

Remember what what I said in a previous post about cars being fixed? Sometimes you dig yourself into trouble because your mentality makes you do it all yourself, rather than fighting smart and being an asset. If Polly wasn't pure offense, and Bern wasn't pure defense, Polly wouldn't be in this situation. For instance, Polly doing a simple Ball Bust (pfft) on the knives would have effectively blocked alot more than jumping in their path (Polly can learn about being mellow and collected from Bern). Likewise, if Bern had known what she doesn't now about offense, she could have done this maneuver and downed the guy before those knives had a chance to leave his hand.

http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=116

Remember? Her being faster than a sped up Voulger?   

Sometimes being a solitary fighter actually is precisely the problem. As much a problem as relying on others, because when you fail, and human beings DO fail, you have to ask for more help than if you just decided to work together in the first place! Bern needs to be committed, but as much to being a team player as to being a stronger teammate.

Now about the rest...

This is kinda interesting the way the author handled a resurrection. It's sorta reminding of a stage acting rule "never show a gunshot onstage".  The reason being it supposedly looks odd. I kinda think it would have looked cool to show, but then it begs the question, how would you depict it? Or maybe it was "never fire a gun in the first act" the idea being that you don't bother with unnecessary elements. In either case, when looking at what we could have done with a resurrection:
 

I do find it interesting that they just waived the next three months though. Seriously, we are they going to do with the next 15 pages? Or is this gonna be a strangely short episode?

Also, digging that cute horse.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: SAGG on September 02, 2016, 08:31:16 pm
Pretty abrupt ending as well to me, but okay. My next guess is the next few pages will deal with Maytag.
Just thought about something else: Will Polly become a romantic threat to Maytag?
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on September 02, 2016, 09:00:16 pm
Hmmm, that would lead to a rather abrupt shift in plot though. Especially when we consider May's story. There is something extra not being told here, so dramatically, we heighten suspense. To have Maytag have ALSO finished her quest offscreen would be terrifically anticlimactic, especially when we're dying to see this Dark Cell from something other than flashbacks. Having her talk about what's really going on then a "here goes" moment, ending the chapter (only to leave us in suspense), maybe. But not a... "then they all meet Maytag." At least, not without a hefty WTF Happened chapter. There could also be something they meet on the road however, like a certain crazed cannibal, or whoever that hooded person was.

Also, I hope Warden gets her own chapters. She's too badass not to.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: MaronaPossessed on September 03, 2016, 10:14:45 am
Hope we see Warden again in the future...well...i'm talking about years from now XD She is an interesting character.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: TheCollector on September 05, 2016, 01:11:57 am
Nothing else happened besides what it said. The abruptness isn't to conceal some mystery event to be brought up later, the Arena part of the story is just over, Bern finally accepted the lesson this entire arc has been trying to drill into her head. So there was no reason to continue dragging it on.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: Daikun on September 05, 2016, 02:01:38 am
I'm guessing they spent the full 4 years paying off their marks?
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on September 05, 2016, 04:48:27 am
Nothing else happened besides what it said. The abruptness isn't to conceal some mystery event to be brought up later, the Arena part of the story is just over, Bern finally accepted the lesson this entire arc has been trying to drill into her head. So there was no reason to continue dragging it on.

Yeah, the Arena bit was uneventful. That said, in another comic this would actually be two pages.

One page would have the resurrection as an event, the second would have the summing up of months to years in the Arena.

Typically, we treat resurrection as a an event. Depending on the artist's flair and belief-set we have different stuff showing up. Naruto death and resurrections for instance are different.

But Brion treats it as "not needing description" and extra detail. Brion even goes in to explain "we've not yet seen a resurrection but here's how it works..." Pffft, we've still never "seen" a resurrection even though one was just done.   

 
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on September 05, 2016, 10:34:25 am
Yeah, the Warden is kinda hot... love to see more of her bad-ass self.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: ducky_worshiper on September 07, 2016, 04:06:03 pm
I assume it's being handwaved with the idea of healers and whatnot affecting it, but seeing someone who had a pretty damn serious addictions issue just deciding "oh hey nevermind all that" because his daughter showed up randomly one day is... really difficult for me to suspend my disbelief for and honestly kind of a disappointing portrayal.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on September 07, 2016, 06:24:39 pm
It's a promise. He's just setting her mind at ease.

Is he going to stay on the wagon forever? Maybe not. But seeing his drinking drag his daughter into prison was enough to make him quit for awhile. I'm gonna give him the benefit of the doubt.

Bern should hook up with that hot blonde girl.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: Stargoat on September 12, 2016, 10:15:16 am
Did he sell his organs to buy the sword? Or make some very good bets that his daughter would win her matches?
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: ducky_worshiper on September 12, 2016, 12:30:11 pm
Thank you Brion.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on September 12, 2016, 02:34:07 pm
 ;D

Well, it's not as if were expect expected him to make massive changes.

http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=2369

Grant sold everything he owned to get the sword back.

Ideally, it would be great if Grant could be clean and sober from now on. But as far as things go, his story has been played out and he did what he came to do. If he falls back to his vices, he still managed to do something great.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: Furcas on September 12, 2016, 04:36:38 pm
Ahhh haha, well done Brion.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: mittfh on September 14, 2016, 12:16:56 am
If he falls back to his vices

Perhaps a bit sooner than you expected? :)

As the saying goes, tomorrow never comes... particularly when dealing with addition.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on September 15, 2016, 05:50:20 am
I think its quite clear that Bernadette loves two women... but it would be nice if she told 'pretty Polly' so... just so she knows in her heart!
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on September 15, 2016, 02:18:16 pm
I thought she did tell her that she loves her. Earlier, I think.

And I can't see how she doesn't know it, from the moments they shared together.

Bern definitely loves her, though, and if she doesn't manage to tell her (she is shy, after all), I am pretty sure she will show her.

Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on September 16, 2016, 08:15:51 am
Hopefully we can watch.... ( chuckle... I kid... mostly. ;) )
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on September 16, 2016, 12:53:41 pm
That one, we probably could. Sex during arena with perverts watching the whole thing? Super awkward. Sex between two people who love each other (even if there is a third person)? Super cute.

Update: Nooooo, Polly, don't think like that. Bern loves a dark emo girl like you. She just doesn't know how to deal with her feelings. Or the fact that this is now a threesome (four if you count the wannabe jester). Also, it's kinda like Bern learned the lesson of the Arena and overcame it but Polly is still sorta stuck in there.

Update, the return: Urgh, today i feel like Polly.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: monimoni on September 22, 2016, 10:56:47 am
I'm kind of regretting my earlier comment about how the ending was too abrupt. Nice way to wrap it up before moving on to another chapter. 
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on September 23, 2016, 12:05:14 pm
Uh oh. It's that guy again!  :o
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: mittfh on September 23, 2016, 12:05:52 pm
So, a new character, a promoted extra, or someone who's had previous canonical lines? Still, as Warden's noticed her interest in Bern and Polly, Mystery Character now knows that if anything untoward should happen to the pair, she'll be the prime suspect.

Although of course, when Bern and Polly cross the border, they may have to face Bloody Mary, Suspira or more Thin Man generated chaos.

Meanwhile, two more pages and then a new chapter - probably returning to Maytag, possibly Crest.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: monimoni on September 23, 2016, 12:12:32 pm
Is that... Mary? Looks awfully familiar. I can't find the exact comic, but I remember that at some point a long time ago she was seen eating folks at some prison (shortly after the encounter with Maytag probably). Thoughts?
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: vintage on September 23, 2016, 12:41:48 pm
It's Clairen! :D

This is going to get interesting.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: monimoni on September 23, 2016, 01:36:35 pm
Didn't Clairen die in Book 0?
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: mittfh on September 24, 2016, 07:02:50 am
Didn't Clairen die in Book 0?
Starting here (http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic/book0/fs18pg05.html) and over the next two pages, it's difficult to see how Clairen can have survived being turned into a pile of ashes...

While Mary suffered a similar fate and survived, the subsequent intermission indicates she'd built up sufficient flesh reserves to effectively rebuild herself. As Lehm probably wasn't known about in Book 0 (as far as I know, not having read it yet apart from the extract above), Clairen was expecting death and didn't appear to be a high level magic use, it's extremely unlikely she survived.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: Brion Foulke on September 25, 2016, 11:47:54 am
I'm kind of regretting my earlier comment about how the ending was too abrupt. Nice way to wrap it up before moving on to another chapter.

That's my goal, to make you feel regret!
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: TheCollector on September 26, 2016, 01:25:23 pm
Didn't Clairen die in Book 0?
Starting here (http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic/book0/fs18pg05.html) and over the next two pages, it's difficult to see how Clairen can have survived being turned into a pile of ashes...
But was she turned into a pile of ashes?

As literally every character said in that one ep of Psych, no body no crime.

Plus, I don't know if you read the Buffy comics, but the exact same thing was recently done to one of the characters, engulfed in flames, only see a dark shape within the flames, and then nothing left but a pile of ashes. When actually they hadn't been hurt at all, just made temporarily invisible.

I too thought it was Mary at first, but now I'm leaning towards Clairen.

I mean looking at what we see of this character, the smirk, the lip bite, the slightly upturned drawn now, all aspects of Clairen's design. Plus there's the fact that we only get shown one arm, the one that we know Clairen still has. Sure she probably would of regrown the other by now, I'm just saying, the only time we're shown one of this characters arms it's the one Clairen didn't lose.

Plus this story has all been so centralized on Bern's past in Marvallo, so it wouldn't make much sense for it to be Mary. Plus she doesn't have the scars.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: monimoni on September 27, 2016, 06:25:31 am
Yep, definitely not Mary. Clairen is the one with the enchanted tattoos right? Could be. Would be interesting, but I don't get Warden's comments in that case. Why would she want to do something illegal?
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on September 27, 2016, 07:09:18 am
C'mon people, Clairen is dead. Also, only two or so characters showed up from Chapter 0, Moss and Regina. The rest weren't important enough to bother with. I highly doubt we would have someone we already know for the diehard fans, and someone the newer-comers don't even recognize.

Another thing, this is a new character. Clairen would talk about Bern like she knows her. This is someone with personal curiosity. This is also someone that aside from being slim, is not clearly female. Whose mannerisms seem more male to me. Maybe she is a tomboy, but definitely not someone we know from these conversations.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: mittfh on September 28, 2016, 01:23:12 pm
So it's someone she's met before somewhere at the Colosseum - but who? I haven't the patience to search through all the pages to see if they've appeared in canon yet...
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: MaronaPossessed on September 28, 2016, 01:26:33 pm
So it's someone she's met before somewhere at the Colosseum - but who? I haven't the patience to search through all the pages to see if they've appeared in canon yet...
I'm leaning towards Ashley from book 0.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: phillip1882 on September 28, 2016, 01:37:55 pm
i thought it was that guy she beat in order to become a knight.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: Puyon on September 28, 2016, 02:24:22 pm
It's Ashley who first appeared in uh… Chapter 3 or 4 of Volume 0 if I recall. I also totally called it earlier in the thread.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on September 28, 2016, 02:25:36 pm
See! Not Clairen.

I'm leaning towards Ashley from book 0.

Seconded. One, she is an old opponent (who isn't dead), and two, this is about how she looks here (http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic/book0/fs03pg01.html). Especially since we later see her assassin's cloak which pretty much looks the same. And she has a valid reason for revenge... You know what? I don't care what Brion says, it's Ashley.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: monimoni on September 28, 2016, 05:51:29 pm
Yeah. I had to check out the entire incident with the assassins in book 0 to remember who this uAshley is. Well, I hope Bern learned something from the Colosseum and will follow Warden's advice.
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: SAGG on October 02, 2016, 01:14:00 am
Yeah. I had to check out the entire incident with the assassins in book 0 to remember who this uAshley is. Well, I hope Bern learned something from the Colosseum and will follow Warden's advice.
Too bad Ashley won't, it appears...
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on October 02, 2016, 09:31:54 am
Bern needs to defeat, then reconcile with Ashley.

#HaremForBern #FeelTheBernadette
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: SAGG on October 10, 2016, 07:10:34 am
My bad on submitting Chapter 47: Discussion. Please remove, Brion. As for the newest pic, who is this? I know I've seen her before...
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: monimoni on October 10, 2016, 02:08:11 pm
I suppose it's Corona, but I was sure she had dark hair and slight Asian features.
Really looking forward to this chapter!
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: mittfh on October 12, 2016, 11:41:35 am
My bad on submitting Chapter 47: Discussion. Please remove, Brion. As for the newest pic, who is this? I know I've seen her before...

Except that it would seem illogical to have two Chapter 46s - I'm assuming "The Dark Cell's Third Phase, Part 2" is supposed to be Chapter 47, despite both the cover (http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=2993) and the chapter list (http://flipside.keenspot.com/chapters.php) claiming otherwise, and Brion just forgot to renumber when editing the copied / pasted text...
Title: Re: Chapter 46: Discussion
Post by: bulmabriefs144 on October 12, 2016, 01:07:54 pm
As Brion explained to me, it's actually okay if we start the thread.

Oh I get it, it was possibly misnumbered.