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Comics Discussion => Flipside Discussion => Topic started by: Brion Foulke on November 04, 2011, 01:06:02 pm

Title: Chapter A: Discussion
Post by: Brion Foulke on November 04, 2011, 01:06:02 pm
This is a side-story chapter.  It will be up until Book 6 is released.  That probably won't be until next year, though.
Title: Re: Chapter A: Discussion
Post by: Kiran on November 05, 2011, 12:59:42 am
So trying a long shot, May is a psychopath?
 :o
This side story should be interesting, showing how it all started for May.
Title: Re: Chapter A: Discussion
Post by: Blue Dragon on November 05, 2011, 05:00:16 pm
I'm really getting intrigued now! I was wondering what was going on for a minute there, cause I remember way back when, she even had to grab her Jester Costume to save Moss. But then it was like, "whoa? An act?" I'm really curious where things are going.

I know it's been a while since I posted, but just cause I don't post, I'm still here, and still a fan!

I'm looking forward to see what's going on with her. Will we possibly learn why her mother abandoned her? (I'm gonna have to wait, aren't I?)
Title: Re: Chapter A: Discussion
Post by: Azure Priest on November 07, 2011, 05:29:43 am
....

Holy! "Maytag" was schizophrenic! (Note: schizophrenia is NOT MPD.)

EESHH!!! That's some serious transformation.
Title: Re: Chapter A: Discussion
Post by: Yeti on November 08, 2011, 03:02:51 am
I'm not sure how you've come to a schitz diagnosis.
Title: Re: Chapter A: Discussion
Post by: ducky_worshiper on November 08, 2011, 06:11:58 pm
Yeah, really not sure where the heck you came up with a schizophrenia diagnosis.  

The DSM IV(the current version) states the following criteria for Schizophrenia:

Quote
A. Characteristic Symptoms:
Two (or more) of the following, each present for a significant portion of time during a 1-month
period:
1. Delusions
2. Hallucinations
3. Disorganized speech
4. Grossly disorganized or catatonic behavior
5. Negative symptoms, i.e., affective flattening, alogia, or avolition
B. Social / Occupational Dysfunction:
For a significant portion of the time since the onset of the disturbance, one or more major areas of
functioning such as work, interpersonal relations, or self-care are markedly below the level
achieved prior to the onset.
C. Duration:
Continuous signs of the disturbance persist for at least 6 months. This 6-month period must
include at least 1 month of symptoms that meet Criterion A and may include periods of prodromal
or residual symptoms.
D. Schizoaffective and Mood Disorder Exclusion:
Schizoaffective Disorder and Mood Disorder With Psychotic Features have been ruled out
because either (1) no Major Depressive, Manic, or Mixed Episodes have occurred concurrently
with the active-phase symptoms; or (2) if mood episodes have occurred during active-phase
symptoms, their total duration has been brief relative to the duration of the active and residual
periods.
E. Substance / General Medical Condition Exclusion:
The disturbance is not due to the direct physiological effects of a substance or a general medical
condition.

The list of negative symptoms includes:

Quote
lack of emotion - the inability to enjoy regular activities (visiting with friends, etc.) as much as before
Low energy - the person tends to sit around and sleep much more than normal
lack of interest in life, low motivation
Affective flattening - a blank, blunted facial expression or less lively facial movements, flat voice (lack of normal intonations and variance) or physical movements.
Alogia (difficulty or inability to speak)
Inappropriate social skills or lack of interest or ability to socialize with other people
Inability to make friends or keep friends, or not caring to have friends
Social isolation - person spends most of the day alone or only with close family

She has absolutely no evidence of any hallucinations, disorganized speech or behaviors, or delusions as far as we've seen in the comic.  The *closest* you might be able to argue is a flattened affect based off of "inhumanly calm," and "rarely smiled."  The rest are pretty firmly trounced by her personality throughout the comic.

So basically, tl;dr - there's no way she's schizophrenic based on evidence presented thus far in the comic.

Edit - spelling.
Title: Re: Chapter A: Discussion
Post by: contreras on November 12, 2011, 09:47:44 am
I gotta say that those ads with music are unbearably annoying

I know its probably a necessary evil but I had to say it
Title: Re: Chapter A: Discussion
Post by: ipatrol on November 13, 2011, 03:46:56 am
Interesting how Oublimobious is dressed in that very revealing manner. I think I can even see part of a nipple on one comic.
Title: Re: Chapter A: Discussion
Post by: Azure Priest on November 14, 2011, 08:48:40 am
@Ducky. Try reading that list of negative symptoms again. She's showing most if not all of them in this chapter.

On the current page she's specifically stating "I will try to go make friends then" in a seemingly flat tone with an expressionless face.
Title: Re: Chapter A: Discussion
Post by: xrdn on November 14, 2011, 11:55:00 am
so thats what schizo means ... well i think she has most of the symptoms but again how much is an act if everything thus far is an act how can we tell truth from lies i think we saw maytags true colors when she visited crest in his room and she said she agreed with his statement about being scum but again that could have been an act as well. Because when you distance yourself from life far enough and you still know when to laugh and smile when needed when to say I love you when to laugh and when to cry and not truly mean any of it then can you really love some one like maytag says she does for bern. though I do understand maytag's point of veiw and can relate to acting how others want you to so all i got to ask now is who is the reall maytag is it a side we have yet to see or one we have only seen glimpses of through out the story.

Title: Re: Chapter A: Discussion
Post by: dg86 on November 14, 2011, 02:33:18 pm
Alright, so we're going to see Maytag's mother come back soon.  You don't introduce someone in a gaiden, have them be this beautiful, provocatively-dressing, yet quite clearly caring person--and then run away because they thought their own child was a freak.

That, or it'd be an epic waste of an opportunity not to run with this ball.
Title: Re: Chapter A: Discussion
Post by: CrystalDragonSpaceMarine on November 14, 2011, 02:41:48 pm
So Maytag grew up in an orphanage run by Gendo Ikari?
Title: Re: Chapter A: Discussion
Post by: ducky_worshiper on November 14, 2011, 03:47:53 pm
@Ducky. Try reading that list of negative symptoms again. She's showing most if not all of them in this chapter.

On the current page she's specifically stating "I will try to go make friends then" in a seemingly flat tone with an expressionless face.

Like I said, I can give you the flat affect... but the rest?

Quote
lack of emotion - the inability to enjoy regular activities (visiting with friends, etc.) as much as before

I've seen no evidence whatsoever that she does not get enjoyment out of her life or the activities in which she chooses to partake.  Yes, she does not enjoy the activities her mother would like her to enjoy, but there's no evidence that she doesn't enjoy the activities she does. 

Quote
Low energy - the person tends to sit around and sleep much more than normal

Again, no evidence of this.  When have we been shown that she is lethargic?

Quote
lack of interest in life, low motivation

She is so interested in life that she wants to discuss the meaning of life with her mother.


Quote
Alogia (difficulty or inability to speak)

She seems perfectly capable of having rational thoughts and communicating those thoughts through speech.


Quote
Inappropriate social skills or lack of interest or ability to socialize with other people

You could maybe argue this one, but it seems less like she doesn't want to, or is unable to, socialize with people and more that she might be a little shy or (as stated in the most recent comic) she doesn't feel she has anything in common with other children.

Quote
Inability to make friends or keep friends, or not caring to have friends

See above.

Quote
Social isolation - person spends most of the day alone or only with close family

She doesn't spend all day isolated.  She goes to school.



I could see arguing for maybe 2 of the negative symptoms, but even then she is not meeting the criteria for a schizophrenia diagnosis.  The negative symptoms alone are not enough, she would have to have at least one of the positive symptoms in conjunction with the negative ones.  Additionally, I feel it is more likely that she is simply socially awkward or has something else going on, or that she just doesn't know how to relate to people, rather than being schizophrenic as there is absolutely zero evidence for any negative or positive symptoms in adult maytag.
Title: Re: Chapter A: Discussion
Post by: xrdn on November 14, 2011, 03:58:26 pm
So Maytag grew up in an orphanage run by Gendo Ikari?

if a giant robot gets involved im out or if we find a tank full of maytags
Title: Re: Chapter A: Discussion
Post by: Yeti on November 15, 2011, 12:25:36 am
It is mildly distressing that ducky can post exact criteria which clearly Maytag does not meet (based on current evidence) and still have multiple people decide she has schitz. However since there seems to be interest in slapping her with some kind of mental disorder, I'd suggest a very early onset of schizoid (personality disorder) would make more sense.

   
Quote
A. A pervasive pattern of detachment from social relationships and a restricted range of expression of emotions in interpersonal settings, beginning by early adulthood (age eighteen or older) and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by four (or more) of the following:

        Neither desires nor enjoys close relationships, including being part of a family
        Almost always chooses solitary activities
        Has little, if any, interest in having sexual experiences with another person
        Takes pleasure in few, if any, activities
        Lacks close friends or confidants other than first-degree relatives
        Appears indifferent to the praise or criticism of others
        Shows emotional coldness, detachment, or flattened affect

    B. Does not occur exclusively during the course of schizophrenia, a mood disorder with psychotic features, another psychotic disorder, or a pervasive developmental disorder and is not due to the direct physiological effects of a general medical condition.


However this all seems to go downhill as a diagnosis for adult Maytag.
Title: Re: Chapter A: Discussion
Post by: Kiran on November 15, 2011, 03:06:48 am
so thats what schizo means ... well i think she has most of the symptoms but again how much is an act if everything thus far is an act how can we tell truth from lies i think we saw maytags true colors when she visited crest in his room and she said she agreed with his statement about being scum but again that could have been an act as well. Because when you distance yourself from life far enough and you still know when to laugh and smile when needed when to say I love you when to laugh and when to cry and not truly mean any of it then can you really love some one like maytag says she does for bern. though I do understand maytag's point of veiw and can relate to acting how others want you to so all i got to ask now is who is the reall maytag is it a side we have yet to see or one we have only seen glimpses of through out the story.


That is a problem we have, when and where May was acting natural or simply playing out for other people/enemies to get a desired reaction from them?
Does May loves Bern, or all it's a lie/mirror response for bern feelings?
I think May under the spell told the truth, but knowing May strange strong willpower, what if she could cheat her way out of it too?

Which May is real, what part of her personality is real, and what are just lies?
Her outgoing nature and nymphomaniac tendencies are real or just her playing up so more poeple liked and thought how cool she is?
There are situations where we may see real May, emotionless, strong willed, who can't be broken by anyone, simple cause she may not feel any emotions.

Maybe May is a case of mirror syndrome, she feels with such kind of emotions which would make poeple like her, choosing an open jester work, would make more and more poeple like her, being shy and cute around her lovers in private life, would make them love her even more and want to protect.

Or she was brainwashed/conditioned/trained now which changed her emotionless empty child personality into being absurd open to people one.
But in moments of danger she uses her original personality traits.
Title: Re: Chapter A: Discussion
Post by: Brion Foulke on November 15, 2011, 12:30:08 pm
I think May under the spell told the truth, but knowing May strange strong willpower, what if she could cheat her way out of it too?

Nope.
Title: Re: Chapter A: Discussion
Post by: Kiran on November 16, 2011, 05:00:34 am
Ok, that's actually reassuring.
Title: Re: Chapter A: Discussion
Post by: Azure Priest on November 23, 2011, 06:26:26 am
Now, this is a guy whose got parents that raised him right! I like this Dex already, and he's only been in 2 pages.
Title: Re: Chapter A: Discussion
Post by: Jajii on November 23, 2011, 10:45:06 pm
Oh God, the third frame of page 10 XD. At first glance I thought Dex had sprouted a huge mane between transitions, then realized it was actually May's hair in the foreground. Now I can't get the image out of my head XD
Title: Re: Chapter A: Discussion
Post by: Azure Priest on November 27, 2011, 01:09:11 am
Oh God, the third frame of page 10 XD. At first glance I thought Dex had sprouted a huge mane between transitions, then realized it was actually May's hair in the foreground. Now I can't get the image out of my head XD

I am DEX, hear me roar!

{ROAR!}
Title: Re: Chapter A: Discussion
Post by: Yeti on November 30, 2011, 01:21:25 am
Now, this is a guy whose got parents that raised him right! I like this Dex already, and he's only been in 2 pages.

Or no parents, as the case might stand.
Title: Re: Chapter A: Discussion
Post by: Azure Priest on December 01, 2011, 06:28:19 am
Now, this is a guy whose got parents that raised him right! I like this Dex already, and he's only been in 2 pages.

Or no parents, as the case might stand.
Are you saying he just appeared out of a hole in the ground? He may not have them NOW, but he certainly had them at some point.
Title: Re: Chapter A: Discussion
Post by: Brion Foulke on December 01, 2011, 07:36:56 am
Well actually, his backstory is that he was mysteriously born from a hole in the ground.  He just crawled out, nobody knows why...

Okay, maybe not.  But it might be cool.

Title: Re: Chapter A: Discussion
Post by: Alchemik on December 01, 2011, 02:35:33 pm
Well, it's a fantasy world. He might have come from a hole in the ground. Or a hole in something else, but still not a woman... Who knows. :p
Title: Re: Chapter A: Discussion
Post by: Brekkjern on December 01, 2011, 08:02:39 pm
I am going to go with an egg. Eggs are fine.
Title: Re: Chapter A: Discussion
Post by: Yeti on December 02, 2011, 05:42:41 am
Though presumably the chic- Dex's mum came first. Unless the egg was produced from the hole in the ground. The point is there's no guarantee that Dex's mum didn't die in egg birth, and who knows what the father is up to? I suppose in a strange twist of fate the father could actually be the hole in the ground, which I'm not entirely convinced would be the most capable parent.
Title: Re: Chapter A: Discussion
Post by: SAGG on December 06, 2011, 02:10:18 pm
...And so we have the story of how Maytag came to be.  ;D One question: Why'd it take so long?  ???
Title: Re: Chapter A: Discussion
Post by: Brion Foulke on December 06, 2011, 06:14:02 pm
We're only up to the sixth volume, after all.
Title: Re: Chapter A: Discussion
Post by: Brigtamethyst on December 07, 2011, 12:41:18 am
So Maytag is basically Tokiko Mima?
Title: Re: Chapter A: Discussion
Post by: Kiran on December 07, 2011, 09:46:37 am
So this short story ended.

Really so Maytag is an empty container without any emotions who needs to be filled constantly so she could feel it, feel good?

And depending on situation and people she uses a proper personality so they would like her and so she could form new connections cause that makes her feel good/complete?

She saw that entertainers make an easy connection with a bunch of people and are mostly well-liked so she choosed to become one.
And also the whole nymphomaniac nature is May true nature or just a very good way to get really strong connections with more and more new interesting people?

So in a way remembering how her cheating habits gone even while having Bern love at disposal nearby, she's a junkie :P
Shouldn't true love be the strongest connection May can ever hope to get int he world to?

Makes me wonder if Bern knew about this, but I suppose we will learn that.
Title: Re: Chapter A: Discussion
Post by: Brion Foulke on December 07, 2011, 12:59:49 pm
Makes me wonder if Bern knew about this, but I suppose we will learn that.

Let's just say she knows a lot.
Title: Re: Chapter A: Discussion
Post by: Jongarakun on December 09, 2011, 10:19:07 am
While it did feel a bit forced, and I hated having to go through her story like this, it was a neat concept, and I like it. Mainly because it reminds me of my own childhood so much. It was an interesting trait to add.
Title: Re: Chapter A: Discussion
Post by: Enkida on December 10, 2011, 08:14:41 am
So Maytag is basically Tokiko Mima?

Props to perhaps the only other metal idol fan around these parts !

And I would say no unless she starts popping pnk pills and bursting into song, which might then cause her to vomit up those pills again.  ;-)
Title: Re: Chapter A: Discussion
Post by: nilinet on December 11, 2011, 12:32:12 am
After this story, I've been curious about Maytag's mom and what she was involved in. What could that man at the orphanage have known about Maytag's mother that would inspire him to say to her child, "In my opinion, she's abandoned you. Probably because she thinks you're a freak."

I wonder if Maytag is the product of some bigger scheme, like how Bloody Mary was. Is it somehow related to the person the guy in this page was reminded of?:
http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=348


I know Maytag has emotions. She's not so empty. Emotions are strong motivators for people behaving the way we do. Her mother made a positive impression on her. To the point where she wanted to try emulating her. I suspect foul play in her mother's disappearance, the perpetrator being perhaps the same reason Maytag/Veranda was born an unusual baby.

I also believe Bern really does know a lot. Evidence being that Maytag has given up a big part of herself (encouraging likability through promiscuity) to make their relationship exclusive an one. Bern even knew all along about that, yet allowed May to make the decision to change instead of demanding it of her.

Haha, I'm thinking too much. I rarely frequent to forums, so there. My backlog of ideas.. Guess I've been intrigued as to where Maytag's life is heading.
I also like how this comic incites people to share their views on society and behavior.
Title: Re: Chapter A: Discussion
Post by: Kiran on December 11, 2011, 06:55:19 am
Now you made me think that May is an artifical human creation, and Veranda role was to establish the emotional connection with little girl and then her disappearance was arranged so the girl would develop further by herself...

As crazy theories go ???