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Comics Discussion => Flipside Discussion => Topic started by: Brion Foulke on February 21, 2014, 07:37:27 am

Title: Chapter 40: Discussion
Post by: Brion Foulke on February 21, 2014, 07:37:27 am
This is the thread for discussing Chapter 40.
Title: Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
Post by: mittfh on February 22, 2014, 08:48:58 am
(Merci beaucoup! :) )

So, dinnertime, and we find out the enigmatic Marce is a bit of a seamstress. Lehm's evidently done his research and found that May tends to be more confident when wearing her jester outfit.

As for the ring not working, it may be that Lehm's disabled it, on the other hand, it may be that in her current predicament, Bern's no longer wearing hers. No doubt we'll find out in due course :)

-oOo-

[Update: 25th Feb 2014 - to avoid a double post]

Hah! Sorry Lehm, you've just found someone who isn't taken in by your charms and hospitality - bad luck! :)

Although knowing May, she may qualify it as saying either (a) she'd only do so with the express authorisation of Bern, or (b) she'd only do it alongside Bern.
Title: Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
Post by: Azure Priest on February 25, 2014, 05:56:57 am
Or she could easily point to all her previous experience with Lehm's cabal and say "even if I trusted YOU, I have absolutely no trust in your ORGANIZATION" as well as point out all of Lehm's other "failures" and say "plus, I have absolutely no desire to participate in any of your experiments, seeing as none of them went well, even by your standards, although Melter DID call Mary a 'breakthrough' which directly contradicts YOUR assertions."
Title: Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
Post by: weirdguy on February 25, 2014, 10:56:11 am
girl's still got her career to think about, anyway

organization is neat and all buuuuut it's not like they've actually offered her anything

where are the stock options, guys
Title: Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
Post by: SparcMan on February 26, 2014, 03:57:38 pm
May's got the street smarts of 100 street-rats. And she's got the poker-face to pull this off. If Lehm does let her go, not only will May trust him more, he's going to respect her savvy-ness that much more as well. Well played!
Title: Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
Post by: weirdguy on February 26, 2014, 11:10:09 pm
may's freaky eyes are the best freaky eyes

anyway, i like mind chess so let the games continue
Title: Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
Post by: Azure Priest on February 27, 2014, 07:40:53 am
May's poker face is SCARY, and maybe, just maybe it's time for Lehm to give up painting if he doesn't like what those paintings are telling him.

Two weeks? Where does this 2 weeks figure come from? Why? He wanted a decision ASAP, and when Maytag gives him one, all of a sudden it's "give me two weeks to convince you?" What? Does that mean in two weeks, someone in Lehm's employ will come along who WILL force her?

After all, Lehm said HE won't force her, but he never said a subordinate wouldn't. (Looks suspiciously at Melter who obviously did something to Suspira while she was unconscious.)
Title: Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on March 01, 2014, 08:05:24 am
Yepo!  THAT'S our saucy shrewd Blonde 'Negotiator'!

..if ya hadn't noticed.. I REALLY dig smart women.. and blondes can Always get the best of me! lol!

"I want a girl who gets up early..
I want a girl who stays up late."


"I want a girl with uninterrupted prosperity...
Who uses a machete to cut through red tape."


"With fingernails that shine like justice,
And a voice that is dark like tinted glass!"


"She is fast, thorough, and sharp as a tack,
She's touring the facility and picking up slack!"


"I want a girl with a short skirt,
 and a lonnnnnng... ....jacket."


:)
Title: Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
Post by: mittfh on March 01, 2014, 01:52:12 pm
Lehm still hasn't realised he's dealing with a (pretty darn good) poker player, which means (a) she's not going to trust him until he's proved his honesty beyond all reasonable doubt; (b) she's not going to give anything away, (c) she'll be more than capable of leading him (and his entourage) up the proverbial garden path before making a final decision.

Lehm may be a biodevisor and an unusual variety of seer, but he is evidently not a poker player. He's evidently unused to people saying "no", and it wouldn't surprise me if he's occasionally used the two week gambit before...
Title: Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
Post by: maddhopps on March 02, 2014, 08:28:35 pm
I wouldn't underestimate Lehm here. I don't think he really expected her to agree to stay for two weeks. Right now he just needs Maytag to agree to hear him out and any shorter amount of time he suggests, after throwing two weeks out there, will seem more reasonable. I think he knows he is at a disadvantage right now and that pushing too hard would get her to shut off completely. Considering some the experiments he got people to agree too, I would suspect he is on equal footing with May in manipulating negotiations to his advantage. It'll be interesting to see how both of  them play this out.

On a side note, I wonder if those magic swords will play some role in Lehm's plans. Grant described them as being made with an old sorcery, so maybe they predate the nanomachine magic.
Title: Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on March 04, 2014, 11:05:15 am
Lehm - "So sweet Maytag... you want a voice that reaches everyone?  I can... arrange that... drink this... I can make your voice so sweet and irresistible even straight women will throw themselves at your feet in convulsions of orgasms!"

May - "Uhm.. I've seen what happens to people who 'accept' your gifts of power.. no thanks!"

Lehm - "Awe common.. it'll be fun!  Think of the squealing pleasure you could bring to Bernadette?"

May - "Nope.  Your experiments Never workout right! Pass."

Lehm - "This Time for sure...!" {psst - 'hold her down guys.. this'll be fun!'}
Title: Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
Post by: Daikun on March 04, 2014, 01:19:21 pm
Let's see... Mind-blowing scientific discovery... Comedy contest...

Nice to see that Maytag has her priorities straight.
Title: Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
Post by: weirdguy on March 05, 2014, 11:39:23 am
screw the mysteries of the universe, weasel a bribe out of the thin man
Title: Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on March 05, 2014, 01:59:38 pm
Let's see... Mind-blowing scientific discovery... Comedy contest...

Nice to see that Maytag has her priorities straight.


Hey, magic's been around a long time in this world.. it might be a priority for Lehm.. but that certainly does not make it a priority for Maytag!

The world has continued to spin for centuries.. it will spin for another month - I'm sure if the "Source of Magic" remains a mystery until then! :)
Title: Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
Post by: Azure Priest on March 11, 2014, 05:40:38 am
"MY promise means NOTHING? That's a rich statement coming from a bunch of kidnappers, con-men, and various sundry na'er do wells."
Title: Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
Post by: mittfh on March 12, 2014, 01:10:04 am
And so Round 2 of the negotiations begins. I wonder how many rounds it will take before they arrive at a mutually acceptable compromise...

[EDIT Thursday 13th March]

I think I can see where this is going - Lehm will offer her one million gold if she agrees to do the dark cell thing, whereupon in return May will almost certainly ask for proof he can / will do so.
As the financial services disclaimer says, "Past performance is not a guide to future performance" - just because Lehm's been open and honest (albeit manipulative) to date, it doesn't necessarily mean he'll remain open and honest when the going gets tough. One million gold is a lot of money - how's he accumulated so much?
Title: Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
Post by: Azure Priest on March 13, 2014, 07:06:18 am
And so Round 2 of the negotiations begins. I wonder how many rounds it will take before they arrive at a mutually acceptable compromise...

[EDIT Thursday 13th March]

I think I can see where this is going - Lehm will offer her one million gold if she agrees to do the dark cell thing, whereupon in return May will almost certainly ask for proof he can / will do so.
As the financial services disclaimer says, "Past performance is not a guide to future performance" - just because Lehm's been open and honest (albeit manipulative) to date, it doesn't necessarily mean he'll remain open and honest when the going gets tough. One million gold is a lot of money - how's he accumulated so much?

Theft is the most obvious answer. His organization has "inherited" the belongings of most of his previous "test subjects."

Extortion also comes to mind. His minions have shown a complete disregard of legality, ethics, and morality in their dealings to date.

The Thin Man has shown that he doesn't care what his organization does, or HOW they do it, as long as he gets what he wants... FOR SCIENCE!! What's a little larceny or highway robbery compared to that?
Title: Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
Post by: weirdguy on March 14, 2014, 04:36:03 pm
aw yiss here comes the bribe

okay, just call him on his bluff, see if he is able to produce an inflation piledriver sized pile of gold
Title: Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
Post by: mittfh on March 16, 2014, 12:39:59 am
So not one million gold, but twenty million. Please May, don't let the rational side of your brain get switched off by the emotional side:

(a) you don't get something for nothing,
(b) if he's willing to part with twenty million, just how dangerous is the task he wants you to do?
(c) has he got twenty million gold?
If so, (i) what portion of his fortune is he prepared to give away?
(ii) will he really do so, or is he just bluffing?
(iii) is it a grant or a loan?
(iv) how did he acquire his wealth? Robbery, "donations" from previous test subjects, business / investments, or dug out of a hole in the ground?

It wouldn't surprise me if pushed on the subject, he'd claim he asked the Qualia how he could make money fast...
Title: Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
Post by: Azure Priest on March 17, 2014, 05:49:03 am
Ok. He's just taken everyone's suspicions and cranked it up to eleven! Maytag, sweetie, you, of all people, must realize that when something sounds too good to be true, it usually is.

Now I REALLY hope she tells Lehm to go f*** himself. Because there is no way in hell, I'd agree to "easy money" like that.

20 Million! That's more than she could possibly carry! Even if he actually HAS that much, how is he going to pay her? A personal check? A bank note? The Thin Man is a known and notorious criminal. No way any currency other than actual coin is going to be any good anywhere, and that much is more than Maytag's weight in gold.
Title: Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
Post by: mittfh on March 21, 2014, 01:14:28 am
Wahey! Rationality kicks in - and May's comment that most people wouldn't see more than a few hundred thousand in their entire lifetimes gives a perspective to the offer - it's like offering one of us a few hundred million (or maybe a billion or two) currency units (multiply that by a hundred if you're somewhere like Japan where one Yen is equivalent to a penny/cent elsewhere!), since for the ultra-wealthy, a few hundred thousand would seem like pocket money.

On the other hand, he isn't giving off any tell-tale signs of bluffing, and those around him seem unmoved by his apparent generosity - which begs the question even more, how the heck did he accumulate so much wealth? Does he have his own personal gold mine?!

[EDIT 9:50pm]

Ooh - a conspiracy theory! To date, we've only encountered one country: Iscariot (Marvallo, where Bern is currently having fun (not!), is a region of iscariot - see Intermission 6) - but so far I don't think we've been told Iscariot has a monarchy (unless I've forgotten it!) - the Conclave are the nearest thing to government, and appear to be answerable only to themselves.
Title: Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
Post by: Azure Priest on March 24, 2014, 05:44:09 am
Wahey! Rationality kicks in - and May's comment that most people wouldn't see more than a few hundred thousand in their entire lifetimes gives a perspective to the offer - it's like offering one of us a few hundred million (or maybe a billion or two) currency units (multiply that by a hundred if you're somewhere like Japan where one Yen is equivalent to a penny/cent elsewhere!), since for the ultra-wealthy, a few hundred thousand would seem like pocket money.

On the other hand, he isn't giving off any tell-tale signs of bluffing, and those around him seem unmoved by his apparent generosity - which begs the question even more, how the heck did he accumulate so much wealth? Does he have his own personal gold mine?!

[EDIT 9:50pm]

Ooh - a conspiracy theory! To date, we've only encountered one country: Iscariot (Marvallo, where Bern is currently having fun (not!), is a region of iscariot - see Intermission 6) - but so far I don't think we've been told Iscariot has a monarchy (unless I've forgotten it!) - the Conclave are the nearest thing to government, and appear to be answerable only to themselves.

We've actually seen at least one other "province." There's the lovely little place where Bern and Maytag met Crest. A place where the Phalanx can't operate legally because the Knights that run the place outlawed sorcery (even to cure a woman blinded by sorcery). Those who've read book 0 would have seen two other provinces that are not on friendly terms with each other.

As for the "king from a wealthy country" theory, it actually makes quite a bit of sense. A king hostile to Ishkarot would happily fund the Thin Man's "research," quietly. It's a win-win for him. If the Thin Man succeeds, the King would get proprietary access to unfathomable power. (Controlling all the sorcery in the world.) If the Thin Man fails, the King would have plausible denyability concerning the Thin Man's actions, and so far, all of Lehm's "failures" have been wrecking havock on Ishkarot, which, of course, would make a King hostile to Ishkarot (or at least with cool/cold relations) VERY happy.
Title: Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
Post by: maddhopps on March 24, 2014, 11:12:53 am
I wouldn't be shocked if someone called The Benefactor was sponsoring morally questionable research.
Title: Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
Post by: dg86 on March 24, 2014, 09:14:40 pm
Didn't Suspiria off the complete conclave though?
Title: Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
Post by: weirdguy on March 25, 2014, 01:57:18 am
Well, it could be why he's come into so much money lately...
Title: Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
Post by: Azure Priest on March 25, 2014, 05:37:57 am
Didn't Suspiria off the complete conclave though?

We can't be sure of that. Someone walked away invisibly after Suspira's "retribution doll" cast Qtalda's spell on the Conclave. Still, it would fit with their methods to date.

Kidnap a girl, wipe her memories, and pretty much ENSLAVE her for their own ends. Check.

Wipe out her family and any witnesses. Check.

Set her loose as an abomination? Or call her "rogue" and issue bounties for her capture dead or alive? Check.

Yeah, I could see them funding Lehm "under the table." It wouldn't be too far a stretch.
Title: Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on March 25, 2014, 02:56:10 pm
Hi all!  I'm on a different computer and had to do a search for the web site this time...

No I don't have the web address memorized.  Just wanted to comment that...Damn! There is a lot of hate and criticism out there for THIS particular Web comic..sheesh..!!  I had to parse through all the hate sites just to find the address to this comic!  WTF?!?! Why is there so much hate for flipside?!?! O.o?!?!

I like this comic and like the characters... do see why so many feel compelled to criticis this comic with actual hate website!  What's got them so 'up-in-arms' about Flipside?
Title: Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
Post by: UmberIsSexy on March 26, 2014, 09:24:15 am
Enjoying the threads that are running in the comic right now!

I love Maytag deep in negotiation!

Also love Bernadette in ANY combat situation!
Title: Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
Post by: mittfh on March 27, 2014, 12:18:02 am
Hehe - May's having similar thoughts to mine a couple of weeks ago:

(c) has he got twenty million gold?
If so, (i) what portion of his fortune is he prepared to give away?
(ii) will he really do so, or is he just bluffing?

I just love the way she completely blindsided him with that :) If she sees evidence of his wealth, I wonder if she'll then ask him up front how he acquired it...
Title: Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
Post by: Azure Priest on March 27, 2014, 05:28:37 am
I just love the way she completely blindsided him with that :) If she sees evidence of his wealth, I wonder if she'll then ask him up front how he acquired it...

That would be suicidally stupid. She might ask  for someone to cast "detect" or "dispel" magic on it to be sure it's not illusionary coin like what Mors and the Maytag impostor used on their inn visit.

Edit: Well, looks like Lehm actually has the funds. Guess he means "you didn't ask me what it is I wanted you to do, what the risks are, or why it's WORTH 20 million."
Title: Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
Post by: SparcMan on March 29, 2014, 04:54:47 am


Edit: Well, looks like Lehm actually has the funds. Guess he means "you didn't ask me what it is I wanted you to do, what the risks are, or why it's WORTH 20 million."

Agreed. She's all but agreed to help Lehm if he can prove he has at least 50M in gold, but so far has no idea what it is she needs to help him with (or DOES she? Hmmmmm..)
If he can give her a partial payment first, she she be able to afford bailing out Bern and her sexy friend from Marvallo and probably have enough left over to buy her talk-show.

In other developments, I'm very interested in what's going to happen when Suspira catches up with Lehm. Will May still be there? Will someone be able to talk her down or will there be a big battle.
Title: Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
Post by: mittfh on March 29, 2014, 05:47:49 am
If he can give her a partial payment first, she she be able to afford bailing out Bern and her sexy friend from Marvallo and probably have enough left over to buy her talk-show.

Except she doesn't yet know what Bern and Penny are up to - the last she heard from Bern, Bern was staying a while to help get dad back on the proverbial straight and narrow.

As for the wrong questions, she hasn't yet asked what the required task is or (crucially, given the money on offer), what the risks are, or the question it's probably best not to ask - who's funding him and why...
Title: Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
Post by: Daisuki-chan on March 30, 2014, 04:51:06 am
There is the non-trivial problem of actually moving that much gold into Maytag's "possession". Even if you could easily move it (say with magic), the way that amount has been played up in value I can't imagine that you can just drop it off at a convenient pan-continental bank chain (any bank that can absorb that much with no problem should have owners/stockholders with even more wealth and likely more money, and you'd expect yet more from high rulers, etc.). You'd need to spend money to guard it, or would preferably convert it into assets (businesses, property, estates, farms, mines, etc.) that will not decrease in value due to the inflation you're causing by spending it (although Maytag probably wouldn't be considering inflation due to her world, it would still be safer to spread the money out, and better to have the money be earning you money than to have it just sitting there in a pile awaiting an unfriendly sorcerer, dragon, or whatever can overwhelm your expensive, mandatory guards).

Lehm of course has a secret hideout and only associates with "trusted" people (or can just generate gold with magic, so he doesn't consider it a big risk, or only himself or himself and "super-trusted" people know the vault location(s)), so it would be convenient for him to hold onto that money in the form of gold, but Maytag can't exactly take possession if Lehm is the one who holds it, and I doubt Lehm would give up his location so easily unless he has another...perhaps he does (whether this is the location of the gold, or the gold is here and he'll just move there, I don't know). Either way, "giving" the gold while holding onto it is pretty flimsy, as Lehm could just take it "back" whenever, and I doubt the gold would be at a convenient location to withdraw sums of money from regularly.

Of course how he got the money and what Maytag's task is are important, too.
Title: Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
Post by: SparcMan on March 30, 2014, 11:57:27 am
If he can give her a partial payment first, she she be able to afford bailing out Bern and her sexy friend from Marvallo and probably have enough left over to buy her talk-show.

Except she doesn't yet know what Bern and Penny are up to - the last she heard from Bern, Bern was staying a while to help get dad back on the proverbial straight and narrow.


This is true. I would think if wouldn't take long for her to find out once she leaves the Thin Man's lair and is unable to reach her via the communication device she has. No doubt she'll either go there herself or (if not allowed to because of her task) send someone to find out and report back. That's why I'm hoping she'll get an advance payment as I have a feeling things are just going to get worse and worse for Bern.
Title: Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
Post by: Azure Priest on April 01, 2014, 09:50:23 am
Well. We now know the terms. Sure, Lehm is happy to SHOW the 50 mil, just to prove that he can actually pay the 20 mil. The 20 mil, however, is only payable upon completion. No partial payments. No one to date has ever COMPLETED this "task" whatever it is, and May is just the latest "candidate."

Going by track record, failure means getting mind-wiped (as to Lehm's identity, his location, and anything you may or may not have agreed to have done upon you) and set loose upon Ishkarot as a walking engine of destruction to be hunted down by the Phalanx, trigger happy knights, adventurers, etc.

We have only one case where Lehm actually delivered on a task as promised, and that's the lady with the "killer tattoo." So we have to wonder if he'll actually keep his word regarding payment, or how in the blazes he expected any candidate to be able to move that much gold. Then again, he may simply leave the logistics up to the candidate, and if said candidate can't figure it out, he or she obviously isn't deserving of the payment. Which means more funds for "research" and one more task completed "for science."
Title: Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on April 02, 2014, 05:43:15 am
LOL.

Your ALL forgetting the accessibility of extra-dimensional spaces.  May uses a fairly small one to hold all her stilettos, potions and what not...

No reason Lehm could not do the same an had her a bag of gold ... that seemingly never runs out, well until 20 million gold pieces had been removed!


But as for the task at hand ...NOW we get the catch... so Maytag has to subject herself to an experiment to enter this Dark Cell or entering this 'Dark Cell' will subject her to weird harmful mutating magics!  Not a bright position, but perhaps the Dark Cell enhances what your heart's desire or idealized version of yourself is?  Basically turning your wish on its head twisting it into something monstrous.... like whatever happened to Bloody Mary?  I'm just posting suppositions here...

Gonna be really interesting to so what Maytag does! I just hope our sexy liberated jester is not maimed!
Title: Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
Post by: weirdguy on April 02, 2014, 04:26:39 pm
I imagine that there are parallels to the magic test, except that there's no protections on this one preventing it from outright harming the participant.
Title: Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
Post by: Daisuki-chan on April 02, 2014, 06:46:23 pm
Well, I guess it's a matter of how convenient magic is if you can really move and store 20 million (or even one million) gold in a D-bag. If you can then there's virtually no meaningful volume or weight limit to them (unlike for bags of holding). You'd probably want someone(s) to verify that all of it is legitimate currency, at least, so you'd probably need to pay guards as well as that person(s) for a "short" while, anyway, unless you seriously wanted to do that yourself (and trusted yourself to know well whether or not each coin was a trick to boot).
Title: Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
Post by: Azure Priest on April 03, 2014, 05:35:12 am
So Lehm wants "information." That sounds simple, on paper. In practice, there's nothing "simple" about collecting information, especially if it's information you actually want. So there's a guaranteed payment of 1 mil for a "good effort." The strange thing is, Lehm hasn't detailed what a "good effort" means.

In the Chronicles of Pern saga, there's an artist who, upon commission, goes to paint the portrait of a rather unscrupulous lord. The contract is rather solid, and reputable, but he gets trapped in the lord's mansion for months, painting and repainting the portrait, getting no additional pay because the work was not "satisfactory."

To add insult to injury, after the artist has escaped the mansion JUST BEFORE WINTER SETS IN (which would trap him there with their "wonderful" company for several more months, where he'd then have to pay rent), the Lord then goes to the artist's guild demanding a refund because it's still not "satisfactory." After the guild insists that there's nothing wrong technically or artistically with the work, does he finally get to keep his commission.

Fear not, readers. That particular lord does actually get his comeuppance later when his rather deplorable history fully comes to light.

As it is, Lehm now has a loophole for non-payment. He can claim Maytag's efforts were not "good."
Title: Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
Post by: SparcMan on April 03, 2014, 09:25:44 am
I could be wrong here, but I've so far gotten the impression that Lehm is not the conman type, despite the fact that he operates on shaky if not outrageous moral and legal grounds. I think that the way he works is because (a) He truly believes his work is extremely important, (b) there may be those in the authorities that do not want his discovery to be known and (c) even though he probably considers that "the ends justify the means" in many of his "experiments", the authorities and general public usually don't share that sentiment.
Title: Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
Post by: Tyris on April 04, 2014, 03:04:43 pm
"We want information... information... information."
Title: Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
Post by: mittfh on April 04, 2014, 04:05:47 pm
Perhaps The Dark Cell is their world's equivalent of an anechoic chamber - Lehm's theory being that in the silence and stillness, the candidate will be receptive to information the Qualia supposedly reveal but is inaccessible to people in a normal environment. Just as in an anechoic chamber, the complete absence of sound and light can quickly make people long for escape, with speculation that if someone was cooped up in such a chamber for an extended period with no chance of escape, they'd go slightly mad. Hence the reason for the large bribe...
Title: Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
Post by: Stargoat on April 07, 2014, 02:02:31 pm
"We want information... information... information."

You won't get it!
Title: Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on April 07, 2014, 09:53:38 pm
"You can't stop the signal... {stargoat}..."! :)
Title: Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
Post by: weirdguy on April 09, 2014, 08:56:13 pm
i hope this was worth all the pages getting here lol

edit: I feel like we've been here before, but I'm not exactly sure when
Title: Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
Post by: Abstract Vagabond on April 16, 2014, 03:57:52 pm
"Inside that door was something worse than death."

A community full of people taking selfies?
Title: Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
Post by: Azure Priest on April 17, 2014, 05:38:25 am
"Inside that door was something worse than death."

A community full of people taking selfies?

The horror, the horror!
Title: Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
Post by: maddhopps on April 18, 2014, 04:37:18 am
I find it kind of funny that Dark Cell was a literal dark cell. Seems like it has the same effect on people that Mary's fear demon does.
Title: Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
Post by: Azure Priest on April 21, 2014, 11:15:34 am
I find it kind of funny that Dark Cell was a literal dark cell. Seems like it has the same effect on people that Mary's fear demon does.

That would explain where Melter got the idea.

...

Maytag, you're scary. Most people don't LIKE being terrified. Scared, maybe, terrified, not so much.
Title: Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
Post by: weirdguy on April 25, 2014, 01:57:23 pm
I am having thoughts about taking the pane with Bloody Mary eating May's arm and replacing the munching with "nom nom nom"
Title: Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
Post by: maddhopps on April 25, 2014, 07:50:24 pm
I wonder what the most terrified Maytag has been in the story? The two times Bernadette looked like she might die were the first things to come to mind. Non-Bern related moments, the only thing I can think of is when Moss was torturing her in Book 0.

I am having thoughts about taking the pane with Bloody Mary eating May's arm and replacing the munching with "nom nom nom"

I'm pretty sure that is Mary's superhero catch phrase.
Title: Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
Post by: Stargoat on April 28, 2014, 10:40:34 am
The horror, the horror!

The only thing you have to fear, is fear itself.   And flesh eating monsters.  Fear itself and flesh eating monsters.  Flesh eating monsters and fear itself.  The only two things you have to fear are fear itself and flesh eating monsters.  And the dark cell.  The three things you have to fear are fear itself, flesh eating monsters, and the dark cell.  And an almost fanatical devotion to the Thin Man.  The four things you have.... No.  Amongst the things you have to fear are such elements as fear itself, flesh eating monsters....   I'll come in again.
Title: Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on April 29, 2014, 05:15:41 am
OH CRAP! Maytag ...DON'T!  Your being poisoned/drugged/{fed whatever screwed up all the other 'subject/victims'}!!!  The Tea.. the Tea!
Title: Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
Post by: Azure Priest on April 29, 2014, 05:41:21 am
Whatever shred of doubt once existed is now gone, Maytag is certifiably INSANE!
Title: Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
Post by: weirdguy on April 30, 2014, 12:45:03 am
yeah, it's funny that they didn't just pick her as the first candidate for their project
Title: Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
Post by: mittfh on April 30, 2014, 02:18:59 pm
It's interesting that Lehm is sweating - maybe he's realised he might have to part with a substantial part of his fortune after all... :)

I wonder if Maytag's got any bright ideas as to how she can get over the threshold, given last time she felt rooted to the spot, pscyhologically unable to continue further. Perhaps donning a blindfold immediately beforehand, or taking a running jump into the abyss?
Title: Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
Post by: weirdguy on May 01, 2014, 01:55:34 am
Since Maytag's usual tactic is to attempt to accept the feeling as part of her own being, she'll probably try that first.
Title: Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on May 01, 2014, 09:38:43 am
Uhm.. who the hell is bob?!?
Title: Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on May 02, 2014, 09:16:18 am
If I didn't say this before.. I'm saying it now...

"I got a very bad feeling about this..."

{also.. neat not-sword...}
Title: Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
Post by: weirdguy on May 02, 2014, 11:48:59 am
She's probably just going to use it to retrieve her without having to step inside.

also it's cooler than just tying a rope around her waist
Title: Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
Post by: mittfh on May 02, 2014, 12:46:29 pm
She's probably just going to use it to retrieve her without having to step inside.

also it's cooler than just tying a rope around her waist

Almost certainly, since she issues the command "Abstraction" (as in abstract, verb, sense 2: to extract or remove [something]).

Well, Maytag may not have learned anything useful about Lehm's "Qualia" yet, but she's learning lots about herself! I can imagine several more rounds of this, with Lehm offering her the opportunity to take the money and run each time, but she'll respond with something akin to "I can do this. I'm not a quitter." Heck, she may eventually reach the point of being able to roam around and explore freely. I can just imagine her having spent several minutes in the cell, then calling out, "Hey, Lehm. Got a torch?" or even inviting him to shut the door so she can let her eyes dark-adapt.
Title: Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on May 03, 2014, 10:03:54 am
When I was a little boy... I was afraid of the dark.  Not the paralyzed utter fear... but the I KNOW I'm about to stick my hands into really hot water if I ...'walk into this dark room' kind of groundless phantom fear.  My sister was worse {fear of the dark would paralyze her} and because I loved... and still do love my sister I put on a brave face for her telling her... "looks sis'.. there is nothing in the darkness other than a lack of light that can hurt you!  The darkness does not change the reality of the room you know in the light, there are no monsters that suddenly appear simply because its dark!"

But it was all a sham to protect her as I never liked to see her scared or frightened.  I was her brother her protector - her hero... so I said one thing... but in truth... I was also scared of the dark.

When your a kid ... so many things are frightening... it was the late 70's and such things as the glowing single eyed teleporting tentacle monster from Space: 1999 Utterly terrified me.  Not to mention the suspenseful horror of Ridley Scott's - Alien Movie and the proto-cthulhuian grotesqueness of Clive Barker's remake - The Thing {movies thankfully my parents were wise enough NOT to let me see}.  However, the available media [starlog, fangoria etc...} made scenes from such movies available to a young very bright scifi-fan kid like me; so though I may not have actually watched the movies {at that time} the imagery only added fuel to the fire of my phantoms fears of the dark.  I would spend hours in bed at night tossing and turning unable to close my eyes because of fear of what might be in the darkness and come for me with my eyes closed.

But one evening I was laying in bed wanting to sleep and tired but too scared to close my eyes; and I grew angry!  Angry at the darkness for frightening me so and ... probably even more so at myself for being afraid of what reason told me were groundless phantom fears.  I grew real angry and decided... I was tired of being afraid.  I was only 9 or so years old... but I got out of bed left my bunk-bed where my sister slept on the bottom bunk {cause she was afraid of the height of the bunk-bed}, walked down the hallway of our 'ranch-style' home large living room and went to the center of the vast room {at least to me as a small kid}... and sat in the darkness in the center of the pitched black room {mom had these real thick velvet green drapes in the living room and the kitchen door was closed - so no light came into the room from outside with the light outs} DAREING whatever was in the dark to come for me!  I was going to face it, beat it or die! :)

It seems so funny now thinking back on it now... I came to think of it as incredibly brave for a kid to do such a thing but it worked, I was utterly horrified but as the time passed nothing happened {of course} and the grip the phantom fear had on me was broken... I was still afraid but reason could fight it and win now! Eventually the fear lessened to the point I could recognize it when faced with the dark unknown... but push it aside feeling only a mild discomfort of being in the dark and act without fear.  In life I turned to facing all things the same way as I faced that fear of the dark as a child... head on... and I do so without flinching.

I know it was a much lamented movie for many reasons.. but Cypher Rage of After Earth put it well... "Danger is quite real... but fear is all in the mind.  It does not exist.. it is not real."

A better scifi movie and much better book - Dune, "Fear is the mind killer, I will let it flow over and under and through me. I will face my fears."

And in final a rather obscure scifi reference - The Chtorr series, A Season for Slaughter, {paraphrasing here}, "Fear is a mode of mind. A emotional program your mind runs but it does not control you.  You choose what mode of mind you wish to run.  Change the mode you set your mind to and you can respond to any situation in the best mode that serves YOUR purposes... but YOU choose that mode.  It is your response.  Your brain is the computer run the mode that serves you the best!"

So indeed phantom fear is hard to over come... but it is NOT impossible.

Way to go Maytag... you rock!
Title: Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
Post by: weirdguy on May 05, 2014, 08:11:33 pm
it's kind of like trying to see what's inside of the sun by throwing people into it
Title: Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
Post by: Stargoat on May 06, 2014, 03:13:55 pm
it's kind of like trying to see what's inside of the sun by throwing people into it

hothothothothothothot!
Title: Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
Post by: mittfh on May 09, 2014, 01:27:59 am
So Maytag's primary goal isn't the money. I'd guess her primary goal is proving to herself she can do it (finding out more about herself en-route), her secondary goal one-upping Lehm (who's just revised his offer so she only gets the one million if she goes at least as far as the furthest any previous candidates have gone), with tertiary goals of getting her own Soundstone show and being reunited with Bern.
Title: Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
Post by: ducky_worshiper on May 09, 2014, 12:28:23 pm
It sounds like her primary goal is the show and Bern. She intends to stop once she's reached that and not even bother trying, that sort of implies it's her priority.
Title: Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
Post by: weirdguy on May 10, 2014, 04:55:12 pm
she hasn't really considered what kind of things might have happened to the person who got the farthest, eh
Title: Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
Post by: Azure Priest on May 12, 2014, 06:23:55 am
Uhm.. who the hell is bob?!?

He's the guy from Aerith and Bob on TV Tropes. He's very popular.
Title: Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
Post by: mittfh on May 16, 2014, 12:43:18 am
Hmm... an interesting question by Rhodes.

Also, given May's lack of progress in recent days, perhaps the Dark Cell adapts to those entering it, so making it harder for them to adapt?
Title: Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
Post by: Azure Priest on May 16, 2014, 05:05:12 am
"Why, yes, Rhodes. I DO feel emotions. If I didn't, that damn cell wouldn't affect me much would it?" Maytag.

Rhodes: "But..."

Maytag: "I can also feel frustrated, annoyed, angry, resentful, and SPITEFUL, as I mentioned earlier to your boss."

Rhodes: "Er..."

Maytag: "I have known what it's like to be happy, and this is not it."
Title: Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
Post by: L0g0s on May 18, 2014, 12:06:56 pm
I haven't been online for awhile, and had to do a marathon catch up.

Dark cell.... interesting, both as a deterrent mechanism itself, and....   what lies beyond it?
Title: Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
Post by: nilinet on May 19, 2014, 09:03:00 am
Can't Maytag give it a running start and launch herself through the door, sending herself into a gymnastic style roll where momentum carries her forward?
Or maybe she can be strapped to a skateboard and sent in at a high enough speed where she can coast to the center?

Lol, I know that can't be the way this room works. I guess Lehm is just going to have to find a strong soul who has recovered from PTSD or some similar debilitating fear(s). Coping skills, ftw.
Title: Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
Post by: mittfh on May 19, 2014, 12:41:51 pm
Interesting theories, nilinet.

Unfortunately, as you surmise, the room probably requires you to physically take steps to get beyond a certain point - so if you came in on a skateboard, zone 1 would expand to x steps beyond where friction would cause the skateboard to come to a stop.

Ideally they could do with a tag-team of a very powerful unidirectional projective empath, and a very powerful unidirectional receptive empath. Except the room would probably interfere with the transmission :(
Title: Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
Post by: Abstract Vagabond on May 19, 2014, 02:22:08 pm
So, for Maytag to experience such fear for the first time, that actually works against her. But she should know that she's felt fear before when Bern's life was threatened. Probably not the same kind of fear, I suppose.
Title: Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
Post by: weirdguy on May 20, 2014, 04:53:47 pm
basically, anything clever that you could think of is probably undone by the room cheating with magic to ensure that you're not cheating with not magic

as if it is some sort of bullshit test created to only allow somebody who is "worthy" of getting in

sounds familiar
Title: Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
Post by: Azure Priest on May 22, 2014, 05:02:44 am
Hoo boy.

Maytag: "Your concern for MY well being seems rather shallow, especially since not only was I brought here against my will, BUT someone was murdered in the process. Perhaps if your organization WANTS better candidates, you might want to consider people who come to you willingly? So you can interview them about their emotional health first?"
Title: Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on May 22, 2014, 09:42:42 am
"Are you sure your actually feeling emotions Maytag... you may be fooling yourself?"

Maytag calmly sets down her cup of tea, stands... AND SLUGS THIS ASS in his one good eye!

Maytag - "Yep, I know THAT felt Really good!"

:)
Title: Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
Post by: ducky_worshiper on May 23, 2014, 07:40:41 am
I'm pretty sure this is just really really obvious "reverse psychology." Oh we'll tell her she's emotionally stunted and therefore a bad candidate and now she'll want to prove us wrong so she'll have the proper motivation to do this instead of just doing it for the money which wouldn't have been a strong enough motivation for her to be successful.
Title: Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
Post by: weirdguy on May 26, 2014, 12:21:40 am
this new page seems to be implying that maytag has only avoided emotional trauma instead of experiencing it, in order to endure physical trauma

which wouldn't work on a defense mechanism that projects pure emotional trauma

edit: hooray for adversity and character growth! really specific challenging situations for every character!
Title: Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
Post by: mittfh on June 04, 2014, 03:10:00 pm
Whatshername seems rather arrogant - maybe she'll be a new motivating factor for Maytag.

But then again, since whatshername has been walking into The Dark Cell every day for the past seven years, it may have required as much as a couple of years of that time before she was able to get beyond Stage I.

On the other hand, given the fear factor is generated via magic, perhaps there's an easier way - to cheat (somehow). Alternatively, given what Suspira's been up to recently, bring her in and see if she can do anything magical to assist (e.g. attempting to determine the spell source, disabling it or dampening its effects).
Title: Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
Post by: Daisuki-chan on June 04, 2014, 08:48:32 pm
I'm not sure Suspiria would be of much use if her magic comes from qualia and the qualia are uncommunicative and generally uncooperative.
Title: Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
Post by: mittfh on June 11, 2014, 03:21:23 pm
Maytag... Your mask is slipping...

Scary or what?! Anyone care to speculate on who or what the voice is?
Title: Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
Post by: weirdguy on June 11, 2014, 08:03:34 pm
My guess is dementia!

also, if the source of the barrier is also maybe the source of the secret of magic, I would suspect that it would be really difficult to cheat it with magic
Title: Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on June 12, 2014, 07:33:30 pm
My guess is dementia!

also, if the source of the barrier is also maybe the source of the secret of magic, I would suspect that it would be really difficult to cheat it with magic

Uhm...WTF?  Dementia... possibly but, Maytag may be emotionally retrained..or is it sociopathic {meaning she does not know quite how to emotional relate to others} but her time with Bern I think is very therapeutic for helping her cope with that; BUT... [that all said] my point being.. I've NEVER gotten the feeling Maytag was unhinged!

So again WTF?!?!?
Title: Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on June 16, 2014, 01:22:33 pm
WHEW!!! Not Dementia on Maytag's part...

she's just int he presence of some SERIOUSLY demented and FUCK-UP people!
Title: Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
Post by: mittfh on June 17, 2014, 01:25:20 pm
I think I'll nickname Marzia "Character Development" :D

Maytag's mask is likely to be related to the two personas she wears - the extremely confident, brash jester and the quite, sensitive non-jester (explained sometime way back when). We may be about to find out the trigger for her two different personas, while confronting her inner demons and learning to integrate her personality may be a useful prerequisite for conquering Stage I of Dark Cell.

Having said that, it would still be interesting to know how long it took Wotsername to conquer each of the three known stages of Dark Cell, given she's been trying daily for seven years. With that amount of dedication, it's still slightly surprising Lehm expects newbies to make significantly more rapid progress.
Title: Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
Post by: Azure Priest on June 18, 2014, 05:07:16 am
Ok. Really creepy. We all wear emotional "masks" or "armor" from time to time in order to function in society and survive. Sure, small children can let their emotions run wild, but there are serious consequences for adults who do the same.

Ms. What's her face used to just annoy me, but now she's diving right into "creepy" territory on a bullet train. Perhaps a side-effect of too much "dark cell" exploring?
Title: Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
Post by: weirdguy on June 19, 2014, 12:17:05 pm
the real moral of the story is the importance of braces
Title: Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on June 19, 2014, 08:04:55 pm
the real moral of the story is the importance of braces

Nah. I'm more fond of, "More mind-numbing, loin-grinding sex.. always makes even the most psychotic - mellow and sane.. for a time!"
Title: Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
Post by: Azure Priest on June 23, 2014, 05:57:38 am
Ok. She MUST want to die. Badly.
Title: Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
Post by: sunphoenix on June 23, 2014, 10:59:04 pm
Clearly!  "Don't piss off the crazy person!"
Title: Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
Post by: UmberIsSexy on June 24, 2014, 12:45:08 am
I am very interested in where this is going to go!! I love that the comic is getting back to its rootiest roots right now!
Title: Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
Post by: Azure Priest on June 25, 2014, 07:12:54 am
Oh yeah. Ms. Whatsherface DOES want to die horribly. The last person who mocked the relationship between Maytag and Bern met a very bad end.
Title: Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
Post by: Stargoat on June 25, 2014, 03:34:17 pm
Chrest, pretty much every woman in your life needs saving right now.
Title: Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
Post by: mittfh on June 26, 2014, 01:10:39 am
Perhaps winding Maytag up and getting her seething with anger is the key to Maytag being able to conquer Stage 1?
Title: Re: Chapter 40: Discussion
Post by: mittfh on July 11, 2014, 12:59:33 pm
So while we wait for the Chapter 41 thread to be created, it looks as though we're going to leave Maytag in limbo for the time being and catch up on Crest, Glyph (plus friends) and possibly Suspira.