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Comics Discussion => Flipside Discussion => Topic started by: Brion Foulke on June 09, 2011, 10:58:54 pm

Title: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Brion Foulke on June 09, 2011, 10:58:54 pm
This is the thread for discussing chapter 30, "Blackbird."  You may have already guessed what this chapter's about, but there's more... cause this is gonna be a long chapter.  It'll be 60 pages, in fact.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Kiran on June 10, 2011, 09:53:28 am
I can't wait!
60 pages, that will be a ride.

Also Blackbird looks gorgeous, beside Bern she's has the best design so far for me, that spiky bun kind of surprised me, it has to be a hell to stylise if of course this is not a magical hair again kind of thing.
No wonder Bern is so shocked there, Blackbird looks really refined and badass in this look than what we saw of her in that one panel in the past.

One thing bugs me is that we don't see Blackbird's legs in that first panel below the stool she sits on, like they would be cut.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Nettlekid on June 10, 2011, 09:17:18 pm
Oh so wait, is this a flashback or the present? For a moment, following the super-short flashback of cute lil Bern asking to learn the Split Rose, I thought we were moving into a midpoint flashback. For some reason, Bern looked younger to me here than she usually does. But this is happening in the present day, isn't it?
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Brion Foulke on June 10, 2011, 10:00:40 pm
This is in the present, sorry for the confusion.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: vintage on June 11, 2011, 12:51:55 am
One thing bugs me is that we don't see Blackbird's legs in that first panel below the stool she sits on, like they would be cut.

Proof that she's actually Fata in disguise  ;D
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: charles on June 11, 2011, 06:58:08 am
I figured it was the present.  We've seen teenage Bern before.

I'm surprised that Blackbird didn't immediately recognize Bern.  With the distinct hair, the scar and the scarf she's kept her whole life, I'd have thought she would be just as easy to spot as Blackbird was for Bern to make out.

Its a very interesting tern of events... I'm trying to remember if this chapter will be the first of Book 7 or the last of Book 6... I think its the last of Book 6.  I wonder if this means that Blackbird is the cover for Book 6. *goes to check other chapter covers*
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Hans on June 11, 2011, 09:00:21 am
I'm surprised that Blackbird didn't immediately recognize Bern.  With the distinct hair, the scar and the scarf she's kept her whole life, I'd have thought she would be just as easy to spot as Blackbird was for Bern to make out.
Maybe Bernadette was not that important to Blackbird as Blackbird was to Bern.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Brekkjern on June 11, 2011, 05:54:22 pm
Or maybe, Blackbird wasn't actually looking for someone. Bernadette is searching for someone and is taking in details. Trying to remember stuff. Blackbird isn't. This is just one of the many days in the job.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: charles on June 13, 2011, 07:20:10 am
I wonder what Clairen's nickname was... Could it really have been maneater even back then?

...nah, Bern would have realised that an assassin with the same name would be her.

Still loving the angle of parting Bern and Maytag while tempting them with other possible partners... I'm betting Maytag resists but Bern submits to temptation.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Kiran on June 13, 2011, 12:07:01 pm
It would be nice, after all meeting now her first real crush looking so hot and if in future Blackbird would help her find the father and all then who knows ^^
But I doubt it, Bern is a bit too loyal if mind controlling/altering magic isn't involved.
And the nickname for sure is another hidden thing from Bern past May doesn't know about ^^
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Hans on June 13, 2011, 12:16:28 pm
I like Blackbirds face in that last panel. I really do.
That's all I have to say at the moment.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: akashayi on June 14, 2011, 03:54:07 am
sn...snow patch? that's adorable XD
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: vintage on June 15, 2011, 04:48:41 am
It would be nice, after all meeting now her first real crush looking so hot and if in future Blackbird would help her find the father and all then who knows ^^
But I doubt it, Bern is a bit too loyal if mind controlling/altering magic isn't involved.
And the nickname for sure is another hidden thing from Bern past May doesn't know about ^^

I agree, Bernadette is so loyal that I don't really see anything going down between them besides some romantic tension, maybe some looks of longing or a parting kiss on the cheek lol. She's also supposed to have legendary tolerance to alcohol, so I don't think anything to blame on the henny will happen either. If something were to happen by magical means, I don't know, then I hope it isn't a scenario that's hard to swallow.

...But again, who knows what Bernadette might do if Blackbird is her first love? We haven't seen Bernadette interact with anyone else she has/had feelings for, and we know she dated Clairen while pining for Blackbird instead. Bernadette keeps a lot of personal things to herself, and since this is going to be a long chapter and most likely focused on her, I'm really looking forward to getting inside her head and more of her character development. Only thing that's certain is that Bernadette has a taste for sexy women ;)

I also actually hope Maytag cheats on Bernadette. I know Maytag has some iron will, but if her greatest weakness is her promiscuity, I'd like to see her be human and succumb to it.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Jety Lefr on June 15, 2011, 08:23:52 am
I probably shouldn't be laughing, but "snow-patch" is just too funny!  ;D
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: charles on June 15, 2011, 06:13:42 pm
Ohhh, Are we thinking Fata is the boy handing out the pamphlet?  He did mention knowing she was friends with Maytag because he was watching her so if Fata already has Maytag's memories she wouldn't need to have been watching.  Maybe Shepherd or Melter with an illusion or potion of possession?

...Maybe Mayweather and Taggerty trying to get her out of her Jester suit while she bathes so they can steal it.

I'm surprised that Maytag didn't figure that Moby would be comfortable with nudity around guys.  Guess its just Regina who needs to agree... Maybe she'll just wear a bathing suit *shrug*.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: vintage on June 15, 2011, 08:15:25 pm
Soo Regina, trying to get May naked in the bath with you huh?

I guess Glyph hasn't gotten enough bath parties lately ;) But him and Moby though, I hadn't thought of that at all and love the possibility :-*
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Trombonefellow on June 16, 2011, 02:16:52 am
I like the way things are going, but I'm a little annoyed with the rapid change of focus.
I was looking forward to a chapter completely about Bern and dat Blackbird (lawdy lawdy lawd dat Blackbird).
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Kiran on June 16, 2011, 03:30:33 am
Yeah I'm too not too fond of this perspective change, somehow Glyph, girls and bath irks me in a wrong way ::)

It seems both Moby and Glyph are such kind of people Maytag would find interesting and similiar to her with sleeping around with other openly and not caring about the world, add to that a shy Regina who had gone with drastic change in her life and we might get a nice bath indeed :D

I'm too thinking that this will be a ploy to get Maytag costume so she will have to take up Moby's one.

But I want the story to go back to "Snow patch"!

Of course I don't say that Bern should make-out with Blackbird, but I think for Bern even getting a real kiss with her would be considered a major cheating.

But who knows, maybe this would slowly open Bern to all-girl threesomes :-*
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Nettlekid on June 16, 2011, 07:03:13 am
I don't know what everyone else thinks about this, but what Moby said kind of irritates me. I don't believe in relationships, we're just sex buddies...Is EVERY new character in this strip like that? I know that a recurring theme in this comic is to be surprising, breaking away from conventional societal norms, and such freedom of sexual expression is one of the best, most efficient ways to bring that across, but there comes a time when it just becomes boring. I mean, on the very first page Maytag is spinning that out to us. That point of view is a fairly intrinsic part of Maytag's personality, and it works well in that context. When you contrast it with Bern, who's super faithful and strongly believes in relationships, it makes for a good kind of disturbance that builds plot-developing tension. Thus, because it's already a part of Maytag so strongly, the only reinforcement it needs is the sort that comes from a more minor character like Umber, which just provides the sort of "devil on the shoulder" for Maytag. But now, again and again and again we meet characters who may be quite different, with different upbringings and different views on life, but their sexual philosophies are remarkable similar. Especially when sexual philosophy has very little to do with the given situation. I know that the comic is meant to be a little raunchy and fanservice-y, but I also know that the author is talented enough to subtly slip it in without cramming it down our throats. Between Fata Morgana going on about how society perceives all but select types of sex disgusting, and now Moby saying she doesn't believe in relationships...It just gets the point where I stop caring about what anyone says. Am I in the minority about this, or does anyone feel the same way?
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: charles on June 16, 2011, 02:41:25 pm
Yeah but sexual/relationship philosophy has a lot to do with much of the comic and the relationships between Maytag and Bern, not to mention much of the other major cast.  We tend to explore the extremes of these philosophies and if everyone was the same in the comic it would quickly become quite boring.  Most stories in the modern world tend to involve eccentric people/characters often at the extreme ends of social groups.

Moby is different in the fact that she simply doesn't believe in relationships (at least for herself, possibly everyone).  Moby may even be less experimental sexually than Maytag, heck she could easily be straight, but Maytag obviously likes relationships and getting close to people which is why she's already been involved in two major relationships in her life and tempted to enter others.  Maytag simply likes the notion of open relationships much like Umber's.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Brion Foulke on June 16, 2011, 04:33:01 pm
Yeah, Moby is different from anyone else so far.  She's not into relationships, and I'll just go ahead and tell you that she is in fact totally straight.  May actually does believe in relationships, she just tends to prefer open relationships.  As for straight-forward monogymous people in the comic, there's at least 3 major characters like that, maybe more.  See if you can guess which ones.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: charles on June 16, 2011, 05:06:43 pm
Bern, Crest, Regina?

Not sure on Crest.  He didn't like the notion of Maytag cheating on someone with him, but if he was in a relationship maybe he'd be happy if it was open *shrug*

MAYBE Suspira.  She did have that threesome but didn't really like it.  Thats probably it for the MAJOR characters.  Some minor ones include Bloody Mary, Nigel... Not sure about Sierra.  She might only want a monogymous relationship for herself, but she was pretty keen to see Crest getting humped by anything and everything with tits.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Kiran on June 17, 2011, 01:39:41 am
Bern, Crest, Regina?

Not sure on Crest.  He didn't like the notion of Maytag cheating on someone with him, but if he was in a relationship maybe he'd be happy if it was open *shrug*

MAYBE Suspira.  She did have that threesome but didn't really like it.  Thats probably it for the MAJOR characters.  Some minor ones include Bloody Mary, Nigel... Not sure about Sierra.  
I too would bet that loyal monogamous ones are Bern, Crest and Regina, maybe also Vennice too from minor characters.
I'll be pretty surprised if Blackbird would turn into monogamous one too, but so far we only know she had a relationship with that former Bern gf and nothing more.
Quote
She might only want a monogymous relationship for herself, but she was pretty keen to see Crest getting humped by anything and everything with tits.
She was just a desperate mother there.

As for current page it really looks like Regina is forcing herself to live up to May standards.
Regina doesn't know that May has a girlfriend, right?

As for how sexuality and take on relationships go I like the variety given in the comic so far, we see various examples coming from both sides, with May and Bern conflict in the middle of things.
Personally I wouldn't like to see Bern change into a person who would be able to accept an open relationship with May(maybe some threesomes from time to time just to keep things lively but nothing more on constant basis, but seriously it would be hard for me to imagine Bern staying calm when someone else, male or female, would be claiming May).
And also I don't want to see May limiting her own happiness just to be with Bern and start to resent her due to it in longer time, or beat herself over if she would now cheat on Bern.

Like I sad many times in the past I wouldn't mind May and Bern breaking up staying of course best friends, but instead getting partners more similiar to their own nature.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: charles on June 17, 2011, 05:22:20 am
Maytag's facial expression at Regina being fine with this is priceless.

Yeah, I'm thinking Regina is trying to push herself to be like Maytag or something.  The Jester suit and occupational change were the first hints and this has fairly well put doubt out of mind.  She's idolised Maytag and is pushing herself to be like her.

Interesting character examination to see just how far someone can go to be someone they're not.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: vintage on June 17, 2011, 10:23:36 am
This strip  (http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=222)made me wonder if there were plans for Regina to end up in a jester suit early on ;)
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Kiran on June 17, 2011, 10:41:00 am
Haha, true.
Now we just have to wait till May will brick Regina out of this 8)
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Brion Foulke on June 17, 2011, 11:48:33 am
This strip  (http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=222)made me wonder if there were plans for Regina to end up in a jester suit early on ;)

Yep, there was!
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: akashayi on June 17, 2011, 10:49:51 pm
This strip  (http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=222)made me wonder if there were plans for Regina to end up in a jester suit early on ;)

Yep, there was!

Sneaky! *stocks up on bricks*
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Kiran on June 18, 2011, 04:55:19 am
This strip  (http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=222)made me wonder if there were plans for Regina to end up in a jester suit early on ;)

Yep, there was!
Don't tell me that Bern too will turn into jester and will have her own official brick act? :o
Jester triangle combo where Bern throws bricks instead of pie ^^
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: vintage on June 18, 2011, 07:15:06 am
I could see Bern juggling bricks too. She'll end up getting her own D-bag and fighting enemies with an endless supply of throwing bricks that she pulls out from nowhere.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: charles on June 19, 2011, 05:44:09 am
Sooner or later, I swear, Brion will find a way and reason for Bern to throw a brick at someone in the main comic.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Kiran on June 20, 2011, 04:41:50 am
I hope so ^^

As for current page, plot for stealing May's clothes develops, really Regina will either pass out soon or will totally go out of control shocking May even more...

Both choices are possible.

Somehow I would want to see Bern, Regina and Crest together in the bath(not for any kind of sexual reason), just for amusement I wonder who would blush redder.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: charles on June 20, 2011, 05:11:18 am
I wonder if there's much difference between this nude Regina and the nude Regina that Fata created from Maytag's memories.

Yeah, I can't quite pick how this is going to go with Regina... I'm thinking she'll get in the water and all but... I dunno... If she can take her clothes of like this, I think she's fine for just sitting in a relaxing bath.

Of course, if Glyph and Moby decide to get feisty in front of Regina and Maytag... and Maytag decides to pleasure herself...

Meh, I'd like to think that Maytag would see she's incredibly uncomfortable or something and take her out to have a chat.  There's just something not right about Regina pushing herself like this.  I'm all for pushing yourself to enjoy new experiences and shed inhibitions but I guess it feels like Regina is doing it for the wrong reasons or motivations.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Hans on June 20, 2011, 09:01:07 am
I somehow have a feeling that Reginas costume will get stolen soon. Maytags maybe too, maybe not.
Any case, at least one of them will need Mobys service soon.
Just a feeling.


And Regina is really determined to change. She doesn't seem to be comfortable with that, but determined.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: charles on June 20, 2011, 02:47:37 pm
WOW! I didn't even think of the fact that there are two jester suits in there.  Yeah, it could be a hell of a thing if poor Regina looses her costume as well and is stuck with no clothes to leave in.

Although, I guess they have towels.

I wonder if Maytag would ever go for a much more seriously different costume like her first one or Reginas, outside the Black and White.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Brekkjern on June 20, 2011, 08:07:31 pm
Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

I am sorry... Your post just reminded me of that line :P
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Kiran on June 22, 2011, 08:58:00 am
But Regina didn't mind that May checked her ass and front fully?
 ;D

Also, POLLY!?
Seriously?

Kinda funny they didn't know they real names when they were playing in the gang in their younger days, can we get a little info about how old Polly/Blackbird is?
Is she much older than Bern like around 30 or still in her mid 20s?
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Kanazaka on June 22, 2011, 02:15:25 pm
Ah, Regina, the things we do for love  ;).  I hope this turns out well for you. 

The jester-suit theft idea sounds solid, so let's see if it happens to be true.

I'm also glad to get back to Bernadette and Polly, to see more of them getting re-acquainted with each other.  I wonder if Polly has any important news for Bernadette regarding the goings-on in town?
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: charles on June 22, 2011, 03:08:40 pm
I'm pretty sure Maytag was about 16 when she met Bern, which means Bern would have been around 22. *checks* yeah, 16 and 22 (or there abouts).  Wouldn't surprise me if Bern was a teenager, at least when she first joined the gang and Polly probably isn't much older if she is older.  A bunch of kids in a gang, coming up with cool names.  Or just a way to avoid the authorities discovering your identity *shrug*
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: vintage on June 23, 2011, 04:14:36 pm
I'd been a fan on just about every new character name introduced, but now along came Polly ...  :P
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: L0g0s on June 23, 2011, 04:59:31 pm
I know a guy as 'Chico' because that's his nickname and I never learned any others, and there's plenty of people who know me by various names (IRL) who don't know my real name.  Not because I go around introducing myself with other names, it just kind of happens.

And I LIKE having a Polly.  :)

Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Kiran on June 24, 2011, 01:16:37 am
Seems Blackbird more and more becomes more alluring to Bern and her ideals, like she became a lawful person fighting criminals for good cause, matured quite a bit and has similiar viewpoint on things like Bern.

And at the same time also Regina becomes a bit more open person in sexual matters to meet May expactations...

It will be interesting to see this race who will break up first, May or Bern ^^]

As for ages, yeah 8 years ago, so Bern was like 17 at that time when she was in the gang, still we don't get Polly age but I would bet then as a leader of the gang she should be at least 1 or 2 years older than Bern.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: charles on June 24, 2011, 04:48:53 am
Hard to say if Polly is older.  Kids of roughly the same age tend to hang out so it wouldn't surprise me to learn they were all between 16 and 18 at the most.

Sounds like there might be some backstory surrounding crime in Bern's past before she even entered the Steel Viper gang.  Maybe whatever caused the scar under her eye or maybe she just saw a lot of crime against the girls in the Brothel she lived in. *shrug*
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: vintage on June 24, 2011, 07:24:59 am
Sounds like there might be some backstory surrounding crime in Bern's past before she even entered the Steel Viper gang.  Maybe whatever caused the scar under her eye or maybe she just saw a lot of crime against the girls in the Brothel she lived in. *shrug*

I'd personally love to see more backstory on Bernadette's life in the brothel and in the gang. We know Bernadette already had her scar when she first met Maytag, but in that joining Blackbird's gang flashback you can't see if she got her scar yet. I wonder if Bernadette got it when she was very young, or during her stint with the gang (definitely at least she had it during the gang sometime from this (http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic/book0/fs17titl.html)). Personally I hope she got it before joining the gang, the scene not something cliche-ish like she got it protecting someone at the brothel and then deciding to learn how to fight.  ;D
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Kiran on June 24, 2011, 11:01:19 am
I'd personally love to see more backstory on Bernadette's life in the brothel and in the gang. We know Bernadette already had her scar when she first met Maytag, but in that joining Blackbird's gang flashback you can't see if she got her scar yet. I wonder if Bernadette got it when she was very young, or during her stint with the gang (definitely at least she had it during the gang sometime from this (http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic/book0/fs17titl.html)). Personally I hope she got it before joining the gang, the scene not something cliche-ish like she got it protecting someone at the brothel and then deciding to learn how to fight.  ;D
Yeah I too wonder from what that scar came from.
I bet that Bern protected some girl/woman at the brothel she was staying with her mother originally, and with that she found her resolve that she wants to protect weaker ones and asked her father to teach her how to fight.
Or in much worse direction she was assaulted/attacked and from that she wanted to learn how to fight.
Or maybe it was her father who in some training fight gave her this scar.
But then again how someone with such character like Bern joined a vigilante gang is beyond me.
Maybe even Bern had her rebellious stage when her father left her and she was left alone fed up with adults.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: vintage on June 25, 2011, 04:52:04 pm
My guess is we won't find out about the scar for a while yet still. We only just found out about her scarf lol.

I ran across this previous comic (http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=1087) and wonder if it's some foreshadowing maybe? ;)
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Nettlekid on June 25, 2011, 06:22:54 pm
The thing is, Maytag really doesn't seem like she'd at all care if Bern cheated on her. She didn't show a single flash of jealousy when that other girl (I forget her name, but Moby's friend) expressed an interest in Bern, and even encouraged it. So if Maytag ended up hearing that Bern had cheated on her, she'd most likely be all "Hey, yeah, good for you being adventurous, wasn't that a lot of fun, now let's have a threesome."
On the other hand, one thing I'd be interested in seeing (and I strongly doubt it'll ever come up, but still) is the girlfriend who cheated on Crest, resulting in his unflinching attitude toward Maytag when she wants to cheat. I think that might add an interesting dynamic, if only for a chapter or so.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Kiran on June 26, 2011, 12:24:30 am
My guess is we won't find out about the scar for a while yet still. We only just found out about her scarf lol.

I ran across this previous comic (http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=1087) and wonder if it's some foreshadowing maybe? ;)
Didn't Bern explain it already that her previous girlfriend Clairen cheated on her with Blackbird and that made her quit the gang while Bern real love interest was Blackbird and Clarice was just kind of a replacement?
Soap opera lesbian drama ^^

Well we know at least that May would not be bothered by Bern cheating on her with another girl if that was her own will, I think, but we will see it when it will be done how in reality May would react, different thing is talking about it and feeling it for real.

May could easily let that bath incident continue and have a threesome with charmed Bern and possessed Glyph, but she stopped it.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Shay on June 28, 2011, 09:51:34 am
Hm, I dunno. They're both facing 'unrequited loves from their past'. I can see Regina coming onto Maytag, May turning her down and really hurting her feelings, all for her newfound faithfulness to Bern.

If May then later found out that Bern cheated on her with Blackbird, and that her friendship with Regina had been ruined for nothing then... well, wouldn't even Maytag be a bit bothered?
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Kiran on June 28, 2011, 12:52:17 pm
Current update makes me wonder if this Benefactor guy could be Bern father?
It would be an interesting twist.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Brekkjern on June 29, 2011, 06:43:21 pm
(http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lev96798fU1qe91wdo1_250.gif)

No force? How does anything work at all? No electromagnetic force and the entire country would dissolve. No kinetic force and they would not function at all! Doesn't Newton exist in this universe?!

(http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_le3issnLGw1qe91wdo1_250.jpg)
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Brion Foulke on June 29, 2011, 08:33:05 pm
I think you're kidding, but just in case... she means no physical force, aka violence.  Maybe that's not clear.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: charles on June 30, 2011, 01:23:54 am
Yeah, anytime you see this face, you know they're kidding (or trying to get you mad for fun):

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Icsnh6oDrWA/TUnk4qdOjqI/AAAAAAAAAEA/UxzKltBCdjE/s1600/troll-face1.jpg)

On the idea of no force.  I'm guessing that means you can pretty much get away with anything that doesn't involve violence.  So if you con someone, they're conned, but maybe there's commercial agencies that blacklist con artists to limit their activity or some other system of merrit.  Not sure what there would be for enforcing contracts but I'm guessing it's down to taking collateral that ensures delivery or something.

Maybe force can also pertain to blackmail and certain threats other than those of physical violence, but who knows.

From the previous talk of bloodlust and gladiators, I'd imagine they have some kind of rules to allow violence.  Maybe criminals are sentenced to the ring with a bloodlust spell cast on them to fight it out for the crowd's pleasure as punishment or maybe you can actually challenge people and legally fight them in the ring to settle some disputes.

**************

On the discussion of cheating.  I made a post for this but must have lost it.  There's a bit of a difference between cheating and "playing".

A cheater is deceptive.  They are effectively having relations with multiple partners while leading one or more partners to believe that the relations they have with them are exclusive.  Sometimes they outright lie, sometimes they knowlingly let the partner/s presume, but either way the partner/s are left purposely ignorant of the cheater's inexclusive relations with them.  In effect, we're talking about dishonesty.

A "player" is honest.  They are having relations with multiple partners, but they never lead the partner/s to presume they are in an exclusive relationship and there are no others, or knowingly allow the partner/s to presume the relationship is exclusive.  Certainly, a partner might not like relations with someone who are not exclusive to them, but so long as the partner is aware then they can make an informed decision about if they wish to have non-exclusive relations with the "player" and if they decline then that is their informed choice, if they accept then that is also their informed choice and deception has not played a part.

In this case, Bern has given Maytag every indication that she intends to be intimate, exclusively with Maytag.  If she is intimate with Polly and does not inform Maytag, it could easily be regarded as cheating.  If she hides the act from Maytag then there can be no doubt that it's cheating.  However, if she contacts Maytag on her ring and informs her that she has changed her mind then she's covered for the most part.  If Maytag is happy and gives her blessing then there's no problem.  If Maytag doesn't, then its up to Bern to decide if she wishes to proceed and risk their relationship or decline intimacy with Polly to keep Maytag happy.  If she decides to go ahead, despite objections from Maytag, then its up to Maytag to decide if she can withstand that or to break up with Bern.

Note: While it could be construed as cheating if you get into a deep exclusive relationship with someone and later inform them that you no longer wish for it to be exclusive (thus forcing them to choose between ending the relationship or accepting it as non-exclusive), in this case Bern was sincerely honest when she indicated to Maytag they she intended to be exclusively intimate with her.  Someone could be construed as a cheater if they made the same promise but knew that they would change their mind later and force the choice upon the partner... well... they'd at least be dishonest.

Certainly, Maytag would likely not have a problem with giving Bern her blessing for intimacy with others and could even be alright if she only heard about it shortly after the act.  But if Bern tries to keep it from her, I'd imagine there might be issues of trust.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Hans on July 01, 2011, 12:34:45 pm
I think it's a bit surprising that Regina is that surprised. She has seen uncostumed May a few times.

Also, who is shadow guy in the last panel?
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: charles on July 01, 2011, 03:13:17 pm
I'm pretty sure its the guy who gave them the pamphlet, using an invisibility spell to sneak in and steal their costumes.

We may well be finding out some of the history behind Maytag's confidence complexity, regarding her suit.  Mayweather and Taggerty certainly seemed to know of it from their past experience with her and as the ones who mentored her into the entertainment industry, I can imagine they may well have been there at the start and know the story that led to it.

Poor Regina.  I wonder if its Maytag as a whole she's idolising or feels some need to be braver in general thats driving her to match Maytag.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: akashayi on July 04, 2011, 03:30:41 am
The mystery might be revealed? I think we've been curious for -years- about Maytag's personality!
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: charles on July 05, 2011, 01:10:24 am
And so its revealed I guess.  A slightly different personality, mainly in her confidence I guess, more than her opinions and sexual desires.  Without it, I'm thinking she'd have stage fright for the most part, but possibly it would be more difficult for her to face opponents as well.

Not sure what to make of this thing they've put on her suit.  Best I can guess is that it will simply make the costume disappear while she's on stage, which means its unlikely that Moby's costume could save her... Still wondering if the guy might have picked the wrong jester outfit... that'd be pretty bad for Regina who would likely be watching the show in the middle of the crowd.

If he did get the right outfit, it'd probably just leave her unable to finish the remainder of her jokes, but might actually impress the crowd and work against Taggerty if they actually think its part of the act.  It'd be best to pull the prank just as she's getting on stage, before she could even start and leave her no time to get a new one.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Hans on July 05, 2011, 03:08:43 am
If he did get the right outfit, it'd probably just leave her unable to finish the remainder of her jokes, but might actually impress the crowd and work against Taggerty if they actually think its part of the act.  It'd be best to pull the prank just as she's getting on stage, before she could even start and leave her no time to get a new one.
Maytag could turn losing her costume on stage to her favour if she still had her confidence then. But as the main point is her becoming shy I don't see much she could do.

On the other hand somehow i can't help to think they got Reginas costume. We will see.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: charles on July 06, 2011, 04:42:18 am
Whats the bet Inverness got Crest a Sword?  Magic blade of some description?

I'm just hoping its not Kinn's sword.  That would be a bit awkward I think.

And we know what Suspira's D-Bag looks like.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: xrdn on July 06, 2011, 05:27:09 am
Whats the bet Inverness got Crest a Sword?  Magic blade of some description?

I'm just hoping its not Kinn's sword.  That would be a bit awkward I think.


yeah that would be wierd but yeah i think she got him a sword. I just hope she really likes Crest and isnt just trying to use him to cover up her sadness about kinn. It just seems Crest gets the short end of the stick most of the time.... and he is the only one who seems not to have been laid

Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: vintage on July 06, 2011, 08:16:00 pm
I think a sword is a good guess, though if not maybe another kind of weapon or some equipment.

I miss Suspiria's magical hair though and hope she gets it back eventually. This hairstyle just makes me think of her as Crest's sibling -__-
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Kiran on July 07, 2011, 09:40:32 am
Wouldn't it be funny if she would give Crest a chastity belt?
And mention that she will be the only one having the key... :-*

But seriously a good sword seems as nice idea.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Hans on July 07, 2011, 11:14:43 am
This hairstyle just makes me think of her as Crest's sibling -__-
That could be deliberately. She wants to be as near to Crest as possible, even look like him.
</crazy theory>
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: vintage on July 07, 2011, 03:21:32 pm
This hairstyle just makes me think of her as Crest's sibling -__-
That could be deliberately. She wants to be as near to Crest as possible, even look like him.
</crazy theory>

Haha that reminds me of an article I read years ago about how Brad Pitt tends to change his hair to match whoever he's currently with at the time:

(http://i52.tinypic.com/hvc3mb.jpg)
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: charles on July 08, 2011, 05:10:02 am
Lana?

EDIT: checked, and nope. Lana had Pink hair.
http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=1235

EDIT2: Maybe a relative of Kin's.  Possibly the girl seen to the far left in panel 1 here: http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=1043

But considering that Suspira tends to be a bit of a bitch and that Kin was apparently the only one who could put up with her, I guess it could be any student who's studied with her and had to put up with her attitude.  Everyone loved Kin and now he's dead.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: twalker500 on July 08, 2011, 06:26:05 am
So did Suspiria just call Crest Kismet, or did she randomly say that name for no reason? I'm currently leaning towards the former.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Azure Priest on July 08, 2011, 07:34:19 am
So did Suspiria just call Crest Kismet, or did she randomly say that name for no reason? I'm currently leaning towards the former.

"Kismet" is the avatar of Fate.  By saying it, she's basically suggesting that this Crest and this sword were fated for each other.  As for that "student," what a BITCH! Suspira's been through a great deal and NEEDS Crest's support as well as that of her friends. She does NOT need someone "rubbing her nose in it."
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: The Ghost on July 08, 2011, 11:02:09 am
I'm really scared for Crest with Suspiria. It feels very reboundie. She seems to have latched onto Crest very fast and very hard, you can see the turning point in Chapter 22, Page 18. Yes she did just lose her lover who she seemed very close to, and Crest seems like the person to lend his shoulder to cry on. But it's the fact she seems only interested in Crest comforting her and she is doing all of these nice things for him, paying for Phalanx training and now the sword, sends up a red flag for me.

I also don't know how I feel about Suspiria just yet. To me, too many sides have come out to really get a feel for her, She has been kind of a spoiled brat during Bloody Mary, kinda of angry and spiteful during Nagelring, and now this quite and reserved girl. I would like to think how she is now is really how she is. I think they would make a good couple. But i just have my doubts right now. (I tend to see things half empty, but it's still 6oz of beer in the end).

Keeping on this slightly negative outlook, who else thinks the portal idea will backfire? Not intentionally by Suspiria, but that just seems too good to be true. Either May will end up somewhere else, some how get stuck in limbo between portals or May will not make it back though in time (not really a bad thing, more minor inconvenience. BUT! could cost her the wining if the contest isn't over before hand.)

Sadly my focus is on Crest. I really like him. As much as I would like to see him get some "action", I want it to be for the right reason and right person.

I know it's just me but Bern's "stick" is driving me crazy right now. I'm not saying she needs to be more like May and be cool with sleeping around, but she seems to be constantly at odds with May's personality. I don't understand how you can be that in love with someone but also so at odds with who they are. Bern just seems to be putting up with May. They both have this feeling that they can't see themselves without the other, but Bern seems unwilling to make a compromise where May is willing to basically give up a drug for Bern. I don't know, guess I just have to see how things play out between them.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: xrdn on July 08, 2011, 03:20:43 pm
I'm really scared for Crest with Suspiria. It feels very reboundie. She seems to have latched onto Crest very fast and very hard, you can see the turning point in Chapter 22, Page 18. Yes she did just lose her lover who she seemed very close to, and Crest seems like the person to lend his shoulder to cry on. But it's the fact she seems only interested in Crest comforting her and she is doing all of these nice things for him, paying for Phalanx training and now the sword, sends up a red flag for me.

I also don't know how I feel about Suspiria just yet. To me, too many sides have come out to really get a feel for her, She has been kind of a spoiled brat during Bloody Mary, kinda of angry and spiteful during Nagelring, and now this quite and reserved girl. I would like to think how she is now is really how she is. I think they would make a good couple. But i just have my doubts right now. (I tend to see things half empty, but it's still 6oz of beer in the end).

Keeping on this slightly negative outlook, who else thinks the portal idea will backfire? Not intentionally by Suspiria, but that just seems too good to be true. Either May will end up somewhere else, some how get stuck in limbo between portals or May will not make it back though in time (not really a bad thing, more minor inconvenience. BUT! could cost her the wining if the contest isn't over before hand.)

Sadly my focus is on Crest. I really like him. As much as I would like to see him get some "action", I want it to be for the right reason and right person.

I know it's just me but Bern's "stick" is driving me crazy right now. I'm not saying she needs to be more like May and be cool with sleeping around, but she seems to be constantly at odds with May's personality. I don't understand how you can be that in love with someone but also so at odds with who they are. Bern just seems to be putting up with May. They both have this feeling that they can't see themselves without the other, but Bern seems unwilling to make a compromise where May is willing to basically give up a drug for Bern. I don't know, guess I just have to see how things play out between them.



yeah i agree with you but i really think the Suspiria now is the real her right now she is withdrawn from mostly everyone else and so yeah she may be latching on to him for support and my very well be using him for rebound but that doenst mean she doesnt truly like him shes been through a lot and needs someone to lean on not to cry on but to make her forget and crest fits the bill on that factor he is there and he is willing to listen if this blossoms into a real relationship so be it doesnt mean it wont work out
i for one hope Crest and Suspiria end up together they are a good pair
and i love the idea of a healing sword but i guess that means Suspiria is saying crest sucks at fighting
and crest looked like he was ready to fight that girl for insulting her
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: charles on July 08, 2011, 04:28:40 pm
Hmm.  This could actually be the REAL Inverness/Suspira if the intermission is anything to go by: http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=536 "She was a very shy, average little girl"

As for the Stick up Bern's arse and how she can be in love with someone so at odds with who they are.  Don't forget that Bern has stated a few times, the qualities she loves in Maytag which attract her: http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=415

She's also done some sacrificing of her own. Giving up her dream to become a night of the LaShoar and even a great deal of tolerance by accepting Maytag's adultery for over three years.

I seem to recall that Bern said she would try to loosen up a bit, but haven't searched for the reference much yet.

In the end it seems to be that many of their differing qualities is exactly what attracts them to each other, as well as what causes potential confilict in the relationship.  Both of them are a little self loathing about certain aspects of themselves which is why they admire the differences in the opposite.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: The Ghost on July 08, 2011, 05:25:38 pm
I believe you are right charles. Now that I think about it I do believe Bern said she'd try to loosen up. I'll have to look back and see when she said that before I make myself look like a fool.

True that Bern has sacrificed, but I think putting up with the adultery isn't something to be proud about. If it really bothered Bern that much, Bern should have come forward sooner. Not bottle it up and put on a smiling face. I think it was sad it had to come out under the "Nagelring" and not on their own power. I don't want Bern to be like May. I do like that they are such a yin and yang. Personally, I see that they will learn a lot from each other.

It's still early so I really shouldn't be over stepping right now with my assumptions. I just need to sit still and watch it all unfold.

Regardless tho, when they're not at odds with each other they do make a cute couple. I guess I just really want them to work their differences out enough to where they are comfortable with each other. Guess I tend to side with May, since I share some of the same ideals as her.

Gonna end it here before I go off on a tangent again.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: xrdn on July 08, 2011, 06:59:10 pm
well what ever happens i want to see it to the end this is a great series and i want to see all of the twists and turns it will make.
true there are things i would like to see happen in the series but who doesnt the author is simply brillant to create characters that we can really talk about in such away and feel for as if we knew them. Maytag Bern Crest Suspiria all of them are great and we want to see them grow and change as the story does. I can only wait on the edge for the next I want to see how Crest and Suspiria handle things and what challenges lay ahead of them.


well till the next page.....
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: The Ghost on July 08, 2011, 07:34:20 pm
True that, xrdn. A whole weekend of shaking, while waiting for my next hit of Flipside... Never did I ever think I'd say.... Can't wait for Monday.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: xrdn on July 08, 2011, 07:43:25 pm
my computer was down for a month i kid you not i had withdrawls
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: charles on July 09, 2011, 12:12:13 am
Not rubbing things in or anything but just noting a few other examples I got bothered enough to search for:  Bern has desired death rather than live without Maytag (http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic/book0/fs11pg03.html), risked her soul (or sacrificed her beliefs as the case may be) (http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic/book0/fs26pg35.html), used magic devices to keep in touch with her (http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=1139) and joined Maytag in a radio broadcase as she spilled her most shameful secrets to the whole world. (http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=1088)

No use in listing maytag's as they are fairly obvious and numerous to anyone reading the comic.

They do seem to have learned a lot from each other.  Maytag spelled out how much she has changed as a result of Bern's influence here: http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=694 . While Bern has been able to come out of the closet openly and does seem more comfortable around others and with magic.  She was willing to let her mind be read to assist in the capture of Bloody mary: http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=1036

I think this is the best we may have seen in the way of Bern possibly looking to loosen up a bit more in the future: http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=837 . She didn't exactly say it herself or necessarily agree but I very much had the impression that she'd try to be more understanding and tolerant.

Really, the two problems these women have had stem from a lack of communication and conversations like that last link.  Bern has hidden things in her past that she's felt ashamed of and not confronted Maytag about what she suspected of her ways while Maytag has hidden things about her present activities from Bern rather than openly discuss them so they can each understand their feelings on the matter.  Both of them simply need to keep opening up honestly like this and working towards that understanding.

On the other hand, its possible that if they'd both confronted each other about their beliefs and ways, early on before they fell in love, that they may have parted ways then and there rather than have the strength and incentive to work through their differences.

There was the argument early on about the nude drawing by Kin: http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=572 . This was probably the first open moment between them after Maytag swore not to cheat on Bern anymore and be honest.  Its quite likely that in the past she would have simply told Bern she'd stop but then go ahead anyway, behind her back.  It was a shaky but important beginning I think.  And while they're still at odds over some things, they're obviously becoming much better at all this.

*********************

Still not sure what exactly would happen if Bern cheated on Maytag or not.  I've just recalled another page back here which strengthens the argument that Maytag would be happy for Bern to be intimate with others while still remaining committed only to Bern herself, but I'm still of the thought that Bern would/might try to hide a discrepancy from Maytag and that Maytag would take exception to that more than the act it's self:
http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=559
http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=562
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: The Ghost on July 09, 2011, 12:47:20 am
Guess I should sit down and read Book 0. That might help me out a little with the back story of May and Bern. I should also re-read whats happened so far as it seems I'm missing more then I remember.

I don't know why I don't like Bern so much. I really want to, but I have these strange blinders on when it comes to her. I agree that Bern has done more then I give her credit for.

That or I have no real clue whats going on and just waiting for the next titty shot. Which is a good possibility. Guess I just have a strange view of things.

I think that I'm letting personal feelings and experiences cloud me on the Bern issue.

About to tangent again and it's late. And I don't think well when I'm tired.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: charles on July 09, 2011, 01:29:01 am
*meh* I'm just pointing other stuff out.  Regardless of that, people will obviously love the characters they admire or can relate to in the comic far more than the ones who's points of view or actions they find hard to comprehend or relate to.  A lot of people would likely say they'd love a wild, open relationship with Maytag while a good deal would prefer a more quiet, dedicated one with Bern and I'd dare say there are people who wouldn't want to be involved with either of them.

I do think there's some danger in Crest and Suspira's relationship this early after Kin's death, which I guess is about to be addressed if page 14 is anything to go by, but I'm also worried about a relationship between them regardless of that.  While Crest is a little shy, he also tends to be fairly submissive while Suspira can tend to have moodswings in which she's very dominating to the point of abusive.  This is the stuff abusive relationships are made from, an aggressive, domineering person paired with a timid, submissive person who doesn't stand up for themselves when they're treated like crap or abused.  But then we have seen Crest stand up for himself at times, and he supposedly left his girlfriend when she cheated on him, so maybe he would stand up when it really mattered.

I do like the idea of the portal backfiring.  Maybe one of them will loose the portal's opposite, Melter or someone could replace Maytag's with one that leads elsewhere or maybe Maytag misses going back through before it runs out.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Kiran on July 09, 2011, 02:53:34 am
I know it's just me but Bern's "stick" is driving me crazy right now. I'm not saying she needs to be more like May and be cool with sleeping around, but she seems to be constantly at odds with May's personality. I don't understand how you can be that in love with someone but also so at odds with who they are. Bern just seems to be putting up with May. They both have this feeling that they can't see themselves without the other, but Bern seems unwilling to make a compromise where May is willing to basically give up a drug for Bern. I don't know, guess I just have to see how things play out between them.
Well what kind of compromise you would make Bern to do?
Be more open about sex?
They had these masturbation thing going where Bern said she would like to see May masturbate so that's a step in some direction.
Bern wouldn't be Bern if she would agree for May to go for a threesome, and that's why I love her character, cause I'm more similiat to her in beliefs.
If I would be Bern I would never be with a person like May, especially if Bern knew May cheated on her constantly and even once didn't say sorry for that but always hide the truth, but Bern accepted that as some kind of phase in that time from which May would grow up.
But they had that honest talk under the spell where they told each other their true feelings...
Like I said many times these two would be better as best friends who love each other deeply but would have a respected partners more matching their personalities.
I don't want to see Bern change into a person who would easily have a threesome with May and some other person, or become flashy person like May not caring about nudity and social norms.
These are the reasons I love her character, a surprisingly loyal and monogamous lesbian who is commited to only her partner.
If we would combine that with an open bisexual who loves to have sex with different interesting people and would love to have an open relationship, then only outcome sooner or later will be a catastrophe.
And I don't want to see May becoming a total monogamist who would only stay loyal for Bern like it's happening.
If we would look at it there's no middle grounds for them, they love each other deeply but I really doubt that in long run that will be enough for their relationship to last.
I'm waiting for some breaking point where May would finally succumb or start resenting Bern, repressing her true nature should have some negative effects, which would finally open Bern eyes that despite all this big love she needs to find a steady loyal partner.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: The Ghost on July 09, 2011, 12:51:48 pm
I'm not saying that Bern needs to be like May, that wouldn't make any sense. But I would like to see Bern be more trusting. We know May is trying to be loyal. There have been a few chances May could have taken to break that promise, but she hasn't. I understand why Bern isn't 100% trusting. But you have to get to a point where you either trust someone or you don't.

I don't think Bern needs to "open up" about sex, she obviously enjoys it and wants it, but just with May. And power to her for that. I have no objection to only wanting to be with one person. I like the fact that she stands firm with her ideals on that. Where my rub is, that Bern, to me anyways, doesn't trust May enough. (see above). I understand Bern not liking the "Slave" idea. I don't think I have ever heard someone say "looking for submissive slave to clean my house", normally a is wanted slave for sexual reasons. But the nude picture, again at least to me, doesn't seem that wrong. But Bern seems to feel that it's on the same level as cheating when she scolds May for wants to continue it nude.

I'm not completely blind to Bern's feeling and I understand she has been hurt before by people she has loved. But I feel that if you know that someone is more sexually active then you, sleeps around and puts themselves in sexual positions, then you have no right to cry when shit hits the fan. Guess I'm just more annoyed finding out that Bern knew about May's behavior and didn't do anything about it, yet expects May to be this loyal partner. That's not coming out right and I'll edit when/if I find the wording I'm looking for.

Also looking for a reference I realize that most of my rubs, if not all at this point, happened before the "Nagelring" event, where Bern said she is willing to compromise, and May did tell Bern that she would never cheat on her again. For some reason I'm getting my time line mixed. I thought May told her that on the way to Bloody Mary, but she gave Crest the note saying that she would do anything to make Bern happy, with Crest thinking to himself that he'll need to keep an eye on her.

I do agree that there is going to be a breaking point, but it's like you said, who breaks and how.

I might just have an unrealistic view of how this relationship should be. And to be honest, I'm jealous. The idea that May was willing to cut off pieces of herself to save Bern floored me. That's love. Even with their differences May is willing to do anything for Bern, and a part of me hates that. For personal reasons I wont go into.

I don't want to see one lose a Portal, I want May to be there for Bern, or at least have the ability to. I'm more thinking something happens where the portal closes early or as May is coming though something sucks he back in, but then that would just cement Bern's hatred for magic. But that plan is just too good to be true.

Thank you all for this. You guys helped me straighten a few things out. Really, now that everything is out on the table we just need to see how things play out. I really do hope for the best with May and Bern.

With Crest and Suspiria, I think we're either going to find out that she has done this before, jump into a new relationship soon after leaving one, or this is going to be a rebound/shock fling. Who knows, maybe Crest is what Suspiria needs to finally be herself. With Kin she seemed all over the place with the mood swings. I think Crest would be ok if she has jumped into new relationships soon after ending one, but I think a fling would crush him. Could lead to an interesting arc or two if the relationship is real.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: vintage on July 09, 2011, 04:50:52 pm
Hmm.  This could actually be the REAL Inverness/Suspira if the intermission is anything to go by: http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=536 "She was a very shy, average little girl"

I've been wondering actually if Suspiria's gradual personality change has had something to do with Melter's time alone with her when she was unconscious. I'm still terribly curious to know if Melter did something to her.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: The Ghost on July 09, 2011, 07:43:12 pm
Quote
I've been wondering actually if Suspiria's gradual personality change has had something to do with Melter's time alone with her when she was unconscious. I'm still terribly curious to know if Melter did something to her.

I didn't even think of that. If Melter wanted anything from her, he would have taken it then. They seem to be more interested in Maytag. If he did do anything to her, I'm going to guess either mind control or listening device/spell. If it's mind control, it's very well that the Portals Suspiria game them are rigged, as charles suggested, to port her where he wants. If it's the listening device/spell, he knows when and where to set an ambush. This could get good.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Kiran on July 11, 2011, 12:34:07 am
Well in reality the real Suspiria was an immature bitch, so the black haired girl is right...

She really is hated by everyone here since they won't even give her a brake after Kin's death.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: charles on July 11, 2011, 02:44:58 am
Also looking for a reference I realize that most of my rubs, if not all at this point, happened before the "Nagelring" event, where Bern said she is willing to compromise, and May did tell Bern that she would never cheat on her again. For some reason I'm getting my time line mixed. I thought May told her that on the way to Bloody Mary, but she gave Crest the note saying that she would do anything to make Bern happy, with Crest thinking to himself that he'll need to keep an eye on her.

Really, thats what it comes down to.  As I noted earlier, the issue with the slave and picture were the first time Bern was really confronted directly by Maytag's nature rather than given an excuse to ignore it, and it was the first time Maytag confronted her with it rather than circumvent her with lies.  It wasn't even a discussion leading up to the event, it was Bern walking in on the act and then a conversation.

Since then we've had the "Nagelring" event where all the cards where finally laid out on the table.  The promise by Maytag to commit to Bern and Make her Happy after Bern made a step to openly commit to Maytag rather than join the Knights, didn't cover the past and open up the lies they held between them.  After Nagelring, Maytag finally knew that Bern had suppressed her feelings rather than confronted Maytag and Bern had confirmation of Maytag's ways and that she wasn't simply going through a phase.  Before that it could be any relationship with a partner who willfully cheats while the other stays willfully ignorant.  Dishonesty all round.

Since Nagelring we've seen the girls have a number of open conversations about their relationship and topics such as nudity, sex with others and a few other points.  They've been at odds on the subjects but I can't really note any point where either wasn't willing to listen and understand the other's feelings in such cases.

Both Maytag and Bern need to share responsibility for entering into this relationship and allowing it to continue until they fell in love.  Bern knew Maytag was the kind of girl who would fool around on her but kept it to herself rather than confront Maytag and let her know her expectations and ideals.  Meanwhile, Maytag knew Bern wanted a committed relationship and may leave her if she knew Maytag wanted an open relationship, but instead of confronting Bern with that, worked to decieve her and cheat with others.

While Many argue that Bern has no right to demand that Maytag conform to her code of relationship conduct, I argue that she has just as much right as Maytag has to ask that Bern conform to her code of relationship conduct.  But, of course, if they had been open and honest at the beginning, they likely wouldn't have formed a strong bond and enough committment to both work towards the compromisation and understanding they are now where they've come to love so many of the differences in each other.

*********************

On Suspira... Well... Really, you can understand them openly attacking her a bit since Kin was well loved.  She was given some sympathy before but now she's seen to have moved on, some of them see it as a slight against Kin's memory to move on that quickly.

While I can understand that Suspira's actions or encouragement got Kin into the situation and her wreckless use of magic left Bloody Mary to attack later, I think it also needs to be understood that Kin was a mature man who knew what he was getting into.  He choose to follow Suspira to the town and he also walked away from the crater rather that double check that Bloody Mary was dead, and he choose to walk out and face Bloody Mary to save citizens in what was surely a suicide mission until Suspira cast the diamond spell on his sword to give him a little hope of success.  He could just as easily have hidden in the house and waited for Suspira to recover while people died, just as easily as he could have waited until an authorised team was dispatched to deal with Bloody Mary and let people die.

I still wonder about the "Real" Inverness.  I just remember back to the intermission that she was a shy girl helping out in her parent's business.  Maybe the "Bitchy" Suspira is more the fake with some sense of fake confidence, or maybe she really does just have significant mood swings between quiet-kind and loud-bitchy.

P.S. I'm loving this three way, respectful discussion on these two's relationship.  We've got the fence sitter, the Bern fan and the Maytag fal.  Now we just need someone who dislikes them both *lol*
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Azure Priest on July 11, 2011, 07:00:05 am
"You're only defending her because you don't know her. Don't worry, you will."

Oh, really? You mean you've been by her side in battle, not once, not twice, but numerous times where the enemy was stronger, faster, and trying to kill you?  You mean you've seen her risk her own life several times to save others? You mean you've seen her heart-broken after losing a loved one, or refusing to give up even when facing an "impossible" problem, like a never-ending staircase?  Because THAT's the Suspira I've seen, and she's my friend.  Sure we all have flaws, like some self-proclaimed "student" who goes out of her way to verbally attack someone at a public restaurant having her meal, but that's what makes us humans not angels.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: xrdn on July 11, 2011, 07:44:51 am
"You're only defending her because you don't know her. Don't worry, you will."

Oh, really? You mean you've been by her side in battle, not once, not twice, but numerous times where the enemy was stronger, faster, and trying to kill you?  You mean you've seen her risk her own life several times to save others? You mean you've seen her heart-broken after losing a loved one, or refusing to give up even when facing an "impossible" problem, like a never-ending staircase?  Because THAT's the Suspira I've seen, and she's my friend.  Sure we all have flaws, like some self-proclaimed "student" who goes out of her way to verbally attack someone at a public restaurant having her meal, but that's what makes us humans not angels.


i agree but also how i see it Kin was a smart and kind person so he must have known this side of Suspira exsited cause it looked like he truly loved her and even if he hadnt seen this side he must have known it was there and was hoping that one day it would show maybe not to him but to someone. There is more to Suspiria then we have seen im sure we really havent go to much in her past like the others. I like her and crest together they seem to balance each other out and thankfully crest has seem to gotten over his girl phobia cause this would have been a much different conversation if he hadnt

and am i the only who want to see crest deck this student chick in the face and or stab her
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: The Ghost on July 11, 2011, 10:27:42 am
lol charles, that would make this complete. It has been fun.

Quote
It wasn't even a discussion leading up to the event, it was Bern walking in on the act and then a conversation.

Kinda... Bern walked away... it was May that went after her started the conversation. May could have just finished it, and then talked to Bern, or even not talked to Bern about it all together. But you are right, it was the first open discussion they had about this topic. Baby steps rights.

I do believe that both are at fault in the own respect. But I find it hard to believe that not being open and honest early on would have "doomed the relationship" (not your words, but slightly exaggerating them). But I do wonder what would have happened if May didn't try to sleep with Crest, well, tell him she had a "boyfriend". It seems like his "You're scum" comment/scolding really got to May and opened her eyes. I love how he was more hurt for the "boyfriend" then anything else.

I'm torn right now... I wanna see this thing with Crest and Suspiria unfold, but Bern running into Blackbird could get very interesting. I'm on the fence about wanting her to have an indiscretion with Blackbird. As Kiran said, Bern's strong stance on being a one woman woman, is something to admire. It takes a lot to fight temptation (god I sound like a priest). But I kind of want Bern sleep with Blackbird to see how she'll handle the emotional aftermath. I think she would hide it, feeling like she was weak, selfish, and petty but then come out about it as her after her conscience beat her into submission months down the road.

*****

I think Kin knew what he was getting into, and you're right, he could have made a lot of different choices. I'd like to think he make his choices out of honor and duty, but they seem just as rash as Suspiria's actions. Also both of them didn't seem to take the situation 100% seriously. They almost seem to be playing around like it was a game.

I have a feeling that Suspiria might be an emotional chameleon (might not be what I'm looking for but it's the best way I can describe it). She acts how ever the person she is with acts. But I have a feeling the rage she felt after Kin died was true, who wouldn't go crazy if your loved one died. Maybe Kin's death was a wake up call for her. Be it a harsh wake up call... And we don't know who this "student" is yet. Maybe she was a past lover of Kin or maybe a childhood friend and blames Suspiria for his death. As much as I would love to see Crest belt her one, I'm gonna wait to see how this plays out a little more. There are so many ways this can go.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: SAGG on July 11, 2011, 02:21:28 pm
I'm really scared for Crest with Suspiria. It feels very reboundie. She seems to have latched onto Crest very fast and very hard, you can see the turning point in Chapter 22, Page 18. Yes she did just lose her lover who she seemed very close to, and Crest seems like the person to lend his shoulder to cry on. But it's the fact she seems only interested in Crest comforting her and she is doing all of these nice things for him, paying for Phalanx training and now the sword, sends up a red flag for me.

I also don't know how I feel about Suspiria just yet. To me, too many sides have come out to really get a feel for her, She has been kind of a spoiled brat during Bloody Mary, kinda of angry and spiteful during Nagelring, and now this quite and reserved girl. I would like to think how she is now is really how she is. I think they would make a good couple. But i just have my doubts right now. (I tend to see things half empty, but it's still 6oz of beer in the end).

Keeping on this slightly negative outlook, who else thinks the portal idea will backfire? Not intentionally by Suspiria, but that just seems too good to be true. Either May will end up somewhere else, some how get stuck in limbo between portals or May will not make it back though in time (not really a bad thing, more minor inconvenience. BUT! could cost her the wining if the contest isn't over before hand.)

Sadly my focus is on Crest. I really like him. As much as I would like to see him get some "action", I want it to be for the right reason and right person.

I know it's just me but Bern's "stick" is driving me crazy right now. I'm not saying she needs to be more like May and be cool with sleeping around, but she seems to be constantly at odds with May's personality. I don't understand how you can be that in love with someone but also so at odds with who they are. Bern just seems to be putting up with May. They both have this feeling that they can't see themselves without the other, but Bern seems unwilling to make a compromise where May is willing to basically give up a drug for Bern. I don't know, guess I just have to see how things play out between them.



yeah i agree with you but i really think the Suspiria now is the real her right now she is withdrawn from mostly everyone else and so yeah she may be latching on to him for support and my very well be using him for rebound but that doenst mean she doesnt truly like him shes been through a lot and needs someone to lean on not to cry on but to make her forget and crest fits the bill on that factor he is there and he is willing to listen if this blossoms into a real relationship so be it doesnt mean it wont work out
i for one hope Crest and Suspiria end up together they are a good pair
and i love the idea of a healing sword but i guess that means Suspiria is saying crest sucks at fighting
and crest looked like he was ready to fight that girl for insulting her

You wrote all that between breathing?  ;D You're very good!  ;)
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: xrdn on July 11, 2011, 08:13:30 pm
ok so out of having nothing to do today i reread flipside from the beginning (Still fantasic even the ninth time through) and as i went through this time in noticed Maytag really is perfect for Bern in a lot of ways we say Maytag was giving up a part of her self for Bern but in truth i dont think she sees it that way. i believe she sees it as a sign of love if giving up sex with random people is what she has to do to show what bern needs to know she loves her then Maytag will. And yes Bern is set in her ways and i believe she could be a bit more open about how she really feels to Maytag yes i know she has in the past but it just seems like she keeps alot of things to herself which could lead to Maytag going astray

And Crest has gone through a major change as the story goes forward he use to be shy and clumsy always tripping over his words never able to say what he wanted. Maytag managed to open him a up a bit but he still seems down to me that was until Suspiria started getting closer to him. He wants to get stronger and more helpful to those around him.

Suspiria did go through a mood swing after kin died but you saw that she wasnt always a moody "cough" bitch right before kin went to fight bloody marry (that was an awesome idea by the way) she was concerned for him which shows she can be caring when she wants to be so i can say i truly believe what we are seeing now is the real her no matter what that student girl says.

and on the aspect of Crest/Suspiria i still say its great cause she believes in Crest even tho he doesnt seem to think he can do anything half the time and Crest supports Suspiria even when she is doubting herself
and las time i checked girls just dont ask someone they dont atleast like just to sleep with them and not have sex so it is safe to say that she does like him and as Maytag said if Crest wants to be in a relationship with her he just needs to wait for her to be ready which i think that might be soon if the expensive sword and classes arent some form or sign
but i still think it is a bit too soon for her to jump in a relationship that way neither of the two will second guess the relationship as nothing more then rebound so if they take it slow things will turn out ok for the two

(hey if you stab some one with a healing sword what happens???)
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: charles on July 11, 2011, 10:31:34 pm
I'm guessing that the healing sword only heals the person holding the hilt.  My bet is that at some future point, someone leaves him to die from a mortal wound but he manages to clasp his healing sword and steadily recover to catch up and attack again.

I agree that if Bern cheated on Maytag she'd likely hide it.  She has a tendency to hide things she feels ashamed of.  Her sexuality, her hollow relationship with Clairen to get with Polly, etc.  Although, in general she's quite a private person so she does hide much more than that and doesn't exactly boast her better qualities as a swordswoman, etc.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: The Ghost on July 12, 2011, 10:17:53 am
Quote
(hey if you stab some one with a healing sword what happens???)

Lol, I think the pointy end would still hurt someone, but it's a funny thought. i would be interested to learn more on how it works. Like how fast does it heal and how major a wound. Is it one of those items that needs a special word, like the Angels Breath, for it to work or does it just slowly heal you when you become injured. I have a feeling we'll get to see it in action.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Kiran on July 12, 2011, 12:37:07 pm
Maybe, maybe(I know this is just mine long lasted dream) we will see Crest getting abused and hurt by kidnapers!
Later just to be barely kept alive thanks to this healing sword.

So far mostly it's May role of getting hurt and Bern too had similiar encounters.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: The Ghost on July 12, 2011, 01:13:14 pm
Lol, Crest has been getting the crap kicked out of him during his training. But I know what you mean, he has gotten away pretty clean compared to some of the others. May cut off her pinky finger to save Bern and was will to lob off her breats and had/let her whole arm be eaten, Bern almost died, and all that has really happened to Crest is a bitch slap from Voulger when he tried to stand up for May, and almost had his eyes cut out during the poke game. But almost only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades...

I don't think that he will be kidnapped, but he'll try to play hero and get a royal beat down.

Or maybe the "Student" will get mad and light him on fire or "force push" into a stone pillar, breaking all the bones in he body. Wow... for a character I like, I'm really thinking of some mean things to happen to him, lol.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: charles on July 12, 2011, 02:29:15 pm
I'm changing my bet to really rough sex and the healing sword is all that keeps him alive  ;D
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: The Ghost on July 12, 2011, 02:59:34 pm
LOL, thanks for that image of Crest getting raped. He's all tied up with a gag and Suspiria in a dominatrix outfit holding the sword saying "this will only hurt at first, but you'll learn to love it".
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: charles on July 12, 2011, 04:51:22 pm
Raped? Hell no! Crest always volunteers for pain ::) :P :
http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=85
http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=105
http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=976
http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=1105
http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=1123


And here are the pages of Bern I've been looking for!
http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=1067
http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=1101
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: xrdn on July 12, 2011, 06:16:24 pm
wait even better how bout this "student" says something that pushes Crest over the edge and starts a fight with her and that guy behind her. He gets beat up but acctully holds his own for a bit (but still gets a thrashing) then some one stops it

alright Crest better do the right thing now like say"I dont care what you did only what you do" Or "I've only seen a side i like and i'll stick by you from now on."
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: crazy_razor on July 13, 2011, 11:10:16 am
it looks as if every character in Flipside is afflicted with false confidence. i don't think there's been a single character that actually is good at what they say they are. there's always a hidden weakness underneath. even Suspiria, who came on the scene saying "I'm a genius!", Moss, even our archetypical May, who never falters...every single one of them is crippled by their own weaknesses. i would say the 'strongest' character is Bernadette, but that's only with swords. very interesting.

to be honest i find that slightly disappointing about Suspiria...finding out that she's a shy, weak little girl underneath, just like all the other characters. i thought she'd be the one to break the mold and actually be as confident and capable as she said she was.

Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: The Ghost on July 13, 2011, 12:34:42 pm
Quote
i thought she'd be the one to break the mold and actually be as confident and capable as she said she was.

I think she is as capable as she says, but I know what you mean. I feel that Suspiria never had "suffered" before and now with the death of Kin, she's received a rude awakening. Maybe if Kin and Suspiria had take the Bloody Mary situation seriously, I feel they took it as a game, things may had turned out differently.

As for the false confidence thing, the only person who doesn't suffer is Crest, unless I missed something. He seem to suffered a lack of self confidence and he is slowly finding his balls. I like that no one is perfect in this world. Makes everything a little more plausible and helps, me anyways, to get into the story more.

Tho I should have seen this coming, if she behaved like she did during the Bloody Mary situation, then yeah, it's easy to see why no one likes her. I hope she will learn and grow from this. She showed us she has the power, now we just need to see if she's mature enough.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: charles on July 13, 2011, 02:46:43 pm
"...Unpleasent person I WAS"

I think that last word is a key in this discussion.  Despite a few relapses I'm still willing to believe that Inverness has matured a little from that attitude, mainly as a result of loosing Kin due in no small part to her immaturity as much as his.

P.S. LOOOOOVE the colouring Delusion.  Guess we know the cover for Book 6 (or maybe book 7)
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: xrdn on July 13, 2011, 06:31:42 pm
so who thinks crest will rrrreeeeaaaallllyyyy screw this up or will he be a man help Suspiria


curse you for making a comic i reeeeaaaalllly like and cant wait till the next one and you know how to end a page thats for sure will hurry up friday
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: gunsandrockets on July 13, 2011, 07:13:39 pm
I wonder what Clairen's nickname was... Could it really have been maneater even back then?

...nah, Bern would have realised that an assassin with the same name would be her.

Still loving the angle of parting Bern and Maytag while tempting them with other possible partners... I'm betting Maytag resists but Bern submits to temptation.

Damn.  That's a good catch.  Why didn't I see that?
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: gunsandrockets on July 13, 2011, 07:47:03 pm


Certainly, Maytag would likely not have a problem with giving Bern her blessing for intimacy with others and could even be alright if she only heard about it shortly after the act.  But if Bern tries to keep it from her, I'd imagine there might be issues of trust.

Despite Maytag's self-confessed selfishness and self-centeredness, when it comes to the crunch she acts like a saint.  That's why so many characters fall for Maytag or become friends with her, even Bloody Mary.  So when you add the love Maytag feels for Bern I doubt May would feel badly at all over infidelity by Bern even if Bern lied about it.  At the worst May would feel mild disappointment over Bern violating her own code.

On the other hand I could see Bern tormented by guilt.  So badly tormented by guilt that even Crest would catch on to what's going on, let alone the empathic Maytag.

Of course now that I contemplate such a possibility, I find it hard to see Bern ever cheating.  She loves May too much.

The only plausible way, is if Bern thought May had left her or that May was dead.  Then when re-united with Maytag, Bern would feel horribly guilty (even though she really shouldn't, that's just how Bern is).
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: The Ghost on July 13, 2011, 10:29:38 pm
Quote
I doubt May would feel badly at all over infidelity by Bern

As much as I agree with this, I would hate to see it. I would hope she would be hurt that Bern broke her promise at least. But I feel that May would just forgive on the spot without a second thought. Bern will be dying inside with the guilt, that's obvious enough. Bern doesn't like hurting May. She felt bad after yelling at May for the nude drawing and didn't want her to cut off pieces of herself during the Derricks stand off. I could see Bern starting... like making out and getting into bed with (can't remember person's name. Wanna say Jack, but that's what I'm drinking), but would stop before things got to far.

Quote
so who thinks crest will rrrreeeeaaaallllyyyy screw this up or will he be a man help Suspiria

This wont faze him at all. Suspiria would be the one to mess this up. He seems to care enough about her. I still love the "sleep with me" moment, where all she really wants is Crest to be there. I hope this works out between them.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: charles on July 14, 2011, 02:56:51 am
HEHE, The vote incentive looks almost like Suspira is rolling her eyes at the request.

AND YOU GO CREST!

Kin was killed by a monster created by the Thin Man who was killing innocent people, including women and children, daily and would have killed more if not for Suspira and Kin's actions to arrive about 4 days earlier and deal with her.  Bern would have died for certain for one.

While Suspira can easily be construed as the most wreakless one who battled Bloody Mary, all four of them concluded that Bloody Mary must have died from the meteor and walked away from the site without posting someone to at least keep a watch:
http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=532

And it was Kin who ultimately choose to face her again, when he had little or no hope of survival (until Suspira cast the spell on his sword):
http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=601

I suppose he took the responsibility of the Phalanx much more seriously than Suspira, as we see in the next page after that last, but he was just as slack in dealing with her, not even drawing his sword until Suspira called upon him to finish her off.  If she'd attacked him through the wall instead of Suspira, he would have died there.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: xrdn on July 14, 2011, 06:27:04 am


Quote
so who thinks crest will rrrreeeeaaaallllyyyy screw this up or will he be a man help Suspiria

This wont faze him at all. Suspiria would be the one to mess this up. He seems to care enough about her. I still love the "sleep with me" moment, where all she really wants is Crest to be there. I hope this works out between them.
[/quote]


yeah that is one of my favorite scenes. But i like the part when he tells maytag
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: The Ghost on July 14, 2011, 09:42:47 am
OMG! It must be my birthday! Or Christmas. Page 17, wooohooo!

They are both right tho. If you want to go to the extreme, then it is all Suspiria's fault since it was her idea to go, cuz if they weren't there, Kin wouldn't have had to make the choices he did. But regardless it was still Kin's choice to follow her on this "mission" and then to face Mary alone. I like that she recognizes she is not completely innocent. I have a feeling Crest will say more or less the same as I did about it being Kin's choice to do what he did. They will have a bit of a fight, one will walk away, Suspiria will show up at Crests place for make up sex and live happily ever after.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: crazy_razor on July 14, 2011, 09:45:43 pm
Crest is becoming one of my more well-liked characters. he just seems like such a good person all around. aww.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: vintage on July 14, 2011, 10:28:09 pm
Anyone getting Good Will Hunting vibes? ;) IT'S NOT YOUR FAULT!

Crest's spiral eyes as of late remind me a lot of Mashiro from Bakuman.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Kiran on July 15, 2011, 02:23:42 am
Does 'kismet' means 'kiss me' maybe?
 :-*
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Kamui on July 15, 2011, 03:25:53 am
I think Kismet is just a phrase that means "Good!" or something similar, kinda like Bueno is in Spanish.  Also, was reading back through the chapter, and dunno if anyone mentioned this earlier, but on page 13, panel 3, we're seeing the left side of baldy's head, but don't see his tattoo.  Disregard, saw there is a mistake thread, shall hunt through that.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: charles on July 15, 2011, 03:33:15 am
Kismet from Wikipedia: (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kismet) "Fate or Destiny in Turkish and Urdu, a predetermined course of events"

I don't know what to think of Inverness' response here... Disturbing to say the least.  Something is not right, I don't know if it's something Melter did or if she's going through some further stages of grief or self-loathing that could be dangerous.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Kiran on July 15, 2011, 04:59:38 am
True, I totally forgot that Melter played with Suspiria a bit and we don't have any kind of idea what he did then to her.

He might was just checking her for the procedure, but what if Suspiria is already implanted with something?

And no, I don't mean here anything naughty.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: xrdn on July 15, 2011, 06:02:51 am
no i think she just wants to be at fault for his death. she ended the argument with Crest cause i feel she truly likes him maybe even loves him. Kin was her whole world and his death really hurt her this is just a stage of grief and i've seen this in real people mainly myself.
When something you see as perfect as suspiria saw kin and sometime just to make since of that loss you will fix it in your mind to blame yourself. right now she sees he weakness being what got him killed she doesnt even see the fact of Kin would have fought with or without her and would have died in the fight.

well that just how i see it
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: charles on July 15, 2011, 06:04:02 am
...What if Melter was only doing a follow up check?
...What if Suspira has already been worked on before in her life?
...What if Thin Man is responsible for Suspira reaching Level 3 sorcery without Disolving tests?
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: The Ghost on July 15, 2011, 12:26:13 pm
Quote
I don't know what to think of Inverness' response here...
Yeah, I expected a little different myself. Maybe she just wanted to end it before it blew up into something bigger, kind of like xrdn suggested.

Quote
...What if Melter was only doing a follow up check?
...What if Suspira has already been worked on before in her life?
...What if Thin Man is responsible for Suspira reaching Level 3 sorcery without Disolving tests?
That's an interesting idea that didn't cross my mind. I'll have to track down that scene again when I get off work. I don't remember that to well right now to really comment. I hope that she is not one of his experiments.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Andrea on July 15, 2011, 05:28:17 pm
you know what, I just hope nothing bad happens to Suspria (that is the character more likely to be put in danger due to that checkup) and the Crest.

During these years of reading Flipside I choose her as my favorite character, and I really like a possible Suspiria+Crest couple (while I wouldnt like her anyless if she rejects him).

I just hope she don't die/turn something strange/etc...
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Ryuu on July 16, 2011, 01:50:51 am
i quite like Suspira and Crest as characters, it would be nice if they got together.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: L0g0s on July 16, 2011, 03:45:24 pm
Keeping it short because I've got to run, just throwing out two thoughts.
1:  Man, you guys want to be MEAN to poor Crest.  :)
2:  As for the confidence thing, well, how's that different from real life?  Most people you meet who are outwardly confident and bold, feel shy and withdrawn inside.  It's called putting up a front and most people do it.  :)  It's realistic characterization.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Kiran on July 17, 2011, 11:22:57 am
1:  Man, you guys want to be MEAN to poor Crest.  :)
No, we just want him to get a little of similiar treatment as May and Bern got so far, a bit of equality in it since he is too one of main characters in this story :P
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: charles on July 18, 2011, 12:12:40 am
i quite like Suspira and Crest as characters, it would be nice if they got together.

I dunno now... I'm kind of liking the idea of a Crest-Regina pair up.  Crest just seems to be too much of the underdog compared to Suspiria with her level 3 natural magic and personality, etc.  Regina, on the other hand, is a much more meek and humble person who, while skilled, isn't at the top of the ladder in any field.

In fact, if I think about it, both Regina and Crest are sort of multi-class characters, with Regina having some skill in Sorcery and now entertainment but being an expert in neither while Crest has that rouge side with his poker and cheating skills but also some skill in swordsmanship now.

Bern, Maytag and Suspiria are the super team between sorcery, swordsmanship and rogue/bard while Crest and Regina are the meek team with lesser swordsmanship, magic, rogue and bard skills.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Kiran on July 18, 2011, 01:27:02 pm
Hmm, yeah Regina is like May lvl1 version and could be a good match to Crest :P

As for today's page, I kind got a feeling that Blackbird will try to steal a kiss from Bern next update ^^
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: vintage on July 18, 2011, 01:48:13 pm
Hmm not feeling Regina and Crest tbh. XD I'm just more curious what's up with her new mysterious personality, and what happened after she left with Lucient.

Disappointed with today's page -- it would have been nice to have seen a flashback, or having one of them retell an past experience together, or mention Clairen, instead of a vague "hahaha so many memories." While Blackbird is the chapter title and I'm sure we'll see more of her yet, her appearance so far has been disappointing for me.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: xrdn on July 18, 2011, 02:49:49 pm
im not feeling the crest/regina but im not saying they wouldnt work well together i just like the idea suspiria/crest i think they work well together
just want to see how things work out i guess
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: The Ghost on July 18, 2011, 03:14:27 pm
Yay for new battle lines! First over Bern's personality, now over who Crest should date!

Quote
Hmm not feeling Regina and Crest tbh

As of right now I am in the same boat. Don't know why, but just not feeling it either. I could see why they make a good couple. Hopefully we'll see more of her.

Quote
As for today's page, I kind got a feeling that Blackbird will try to steal a kiss from Bern next update ^^

I got this same vibe. I really think Bern is going to be put to the test here. Could you imagine if Bern and Blackbird did start doing something naughty and the ring turns on...

Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Enkida on July 18, 2011, 04:01:32 pm
Quick art critique: Chapter 30, Page 19, Panel 5 (left side panel, middle row):

I think that horse's back right leg is bending in the wrong direction.  It looks like the horse's knee joint is bending like a human knee joint, that is in a forward direction.  But that particular joint on the hind leg of a horse bends in the other direction when it walks, that is to say, backwards:

Edit, wait, I found a better picture here...

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a330/SweetDisasters/Barn%20Horses/Jigsawfirsthorseshow020.jpg)

Otherwise looks great.  I'm really intrigued by the character of Blackbird, and I like her design.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: charles on July 18, 2011, 04:04:41 pm
I wonder what ever happened to Bern's other admirer, Venice.  I would have thought for sure that she'd be hanging out with Glyph and Moby during Maytag's performances. Particularly while Bern was away.  But maybe she'd be embarrassed to confront Maytag after hitting on Bern.

Heck, maybe thats the pair-up.  Regina and Vennice (unlikely since Regina has shown that she's not bisexual or homosexual).

I agree that we might see a kiss stealing moment from Polly, but it could just as easily be her looking over her shoulder as she leaves to come back later or something.  Maybe she'll try to recruit her as well.  I wonder if Bern did mention what she's been up to, such as her relationship with Maytag, or (more likely) her reunion with Clairen and Clairen's death.

Marvallo certainly seems to be a bit of an industrial state, possibly relying on real world mechanics more than magic like Escariot.  I'm sure they have powerful sorcerers and all, but maybe not a university or significant organisation that really drives magic practice and benefits on a large scale.

I could imagine that Solstice might not have such technology due to the fact its surrounded by sorcerer run towns and may even have an aversion to certain technologies as well as sorcery.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Kiran on July 18, 2011, 11:23:00 pm
Vennice is not such open person to hang with Glyph and Moby knowing what they do whatever they want and how open they are about sex, the other guy is too not with them.
So we may set two teams Team May and Team Bern, I kinda would send both Vennice and Crest to Bern's team, and seems Regina is slowly transferring from TB to TM :P

Also yeah, seems we won't get any kind of past flashbacks showing Bern life with her mother, or how she got that scar for now.
Maybe that will be shown when Bern would reunite with her father.

And we still don't know if Bern told Polly what her goal is, to find her father, I don't think either of one wants to mention Clairen, and i would find it strange that person like Bern would mention Polly about having a girlfriend out of the blue if not asked.

So that's why I expect Polly to do something to test bern a bit, and bern will eaither succumb and feel as hell guilty later(even from one small kiss knowing her) or will clearly state then she has a gf.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Brion Foulke on July 19, 2011, 01:04:09 am
I will tell you that I generally want to avoid doing a ton of flashbacks.  There might be a couple, but nothing extensive.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: charles on July 19, 2011, 01:53:55 am
I'd more imagine something like the time skip between chapter 29, pages 18 and 19 where Crest mentions wanting to talk to Maytag about Suspiria at the end of page 18 and then Maytag burst's out that he's been sleeping with her, letting us know that its been explained.

So we might just have a page start where Polly starts out by saying something like. "Wow, a steady girlfriend for nearly 4 years hu?" and/or "Clairen left shortly after you did.  I wish I'd had a chance to convince her into joining the Enforcers as well.  Maybe she could have avoided this "Thin Man" and her fate if I'd tried harder"

Or something like that, I'm just picking quick examples... I wonder if Bern and Maytag still remember the Thin Man, or if the Conclave took the opportunity to wipe all mention of him from their memories while they scanned them... doubtful they'd have done that.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Kiran on July 20, 2011, 01:12:36 am
This was a weird transition of the scene...

Well seems MONEY are the real important thing to have here.

I suppose Bern might be a bit too naive to think that such little amount of money she got will help her find her father in Marvallo where you have to bribe everyone to get something out of them.

So now I kinda expect Polly to laugh from Bern in next scene, but again it may be a total miss like with the kiss last time ::)
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: charles on July 20, 2011, 01:26:24 am
WOW! $600 for a night?

...well, if its an entire night, maybe thats not so expensive.

If we presume that 1 Platinum = 10gold then she should have $20,000.

We know that 1 Gold = $10
http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic/book0/fs03pg03.html

Although, I recall it mentioned somwhere that the value of gold was double that (i.e. 1 Gold = $20) but can't remember where that was written... Maybe its in the notes or forum somewhere *shrug*.

EDIT: WAIT! I can't tell if Platinum is more expensive than Gold or not.  If Maytag had more Platinum than Gold in her bag then that suggests it's worth less than Gold: http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=355

So if we presume it's 1/10th then she only has $200  :o
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: vintage on July 20, 2011, 01:40:02 am
I agree Kiran, kinda weird transition, and I also agree Bernadette seems a little naive, almost little girl lost. She's traveled a fair lot, you'd think she'd be more self assured. Maybe meeting Blackbird and going back to your roots will do that to you.  :-\ I can't remember but I'm guessing platinum is not as much as gold.

Polly: You don't have nearly enough money to stay at an inn!
Bern: That's okay, I'll just camp outside. With my magical horse.
Polly: Camping with magical horses is illegal in Marvallo. You're going to have to spend the night at my place.
Bern: Let me protest a little before you insist and I finally agree and this leads to further possible sexual tension.
Polly: K
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Xakyrie on July 20, 2011, 03:30:41 am
I'm surprised no one's catching the undertones here.  
follow along with me
Polly: "Sometimes I wish we could go back to the way we were."
end scene. end romantic feelings and niceness and all around good natured for old times sake.

now refresh, start again with next panels.

"its nothing, always pay extra if you want good service."
expectant looks follow... for those who are equally naive, she's asking for a tip for being her guide, as that was good service.

next page.

"... you really HAVE been gone a long time."
smile gone.
she then asks about money, saying the word MONEY, not once, or twice, but THREE times.

it's now become extortion and betrayal of old friends.

psh, all this drama over possible flings, this is so much more delicious as Bernadette meets betrayal after betrayal.
perhaps enough of it and she'll drop the nice girl act and attack of her own vocations.
remember: the comic IS titled FlipSide.  expect every reversal and twist.

also, judging from the picture listed here : http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=355
its very likely that platinum is worth more than gold as its listed on top.  the question is how much more?  i'm betting 1000 gold coins = 1 platinum.
so the problem is naive Bernadette has just possibly mentioned that she's carrying 200 Platinum, or 200,000 gold coins.
with the only hint of current pricings being "hey honey, one night is 60 gold", i'm sure the serious over kill of (again possible) gold coins is going to stir up some trouble to some prying ears.  I don't know about you, but I know its stupid to mention i've got 200,000 in cash on me when i'm walking through a street with lots of people wearing hoods to hide their faces.  That place looks crowded, and exceptionally shady.

on the other hand, if 200plat is worth like nothing >.>  i vote bernadette gets into some serious trouble for starting a fight.
besides, with all the hubbub on money and prices and that the ONLY law is No Force, and there are No Taxes... kinda makes it a scammers dream.
buyer beware, no using force if you get pissed.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Razzly on July 20, 2011, 04:35:12 am
yep, Bern is definietly about to get tricked.

(Still reading the comic actively, Brion. Still going strong! <3 )
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: charles on July 20, 2011, 07:22:17 am
GODDESS OF CUTENESS!!!  :-*

Yeah, either a fully scam from Polly here, or a trick to get them closer.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: SAGG on July 20, 2011, 02:23:52 pm
yep, Bern is definietly about to get tricked.

Not with her friend there, she won't. Recall that Bern's buddy is a cop of a sort there, and apparently just as bad as Bern herself, here. Only a fool would try something stupid.  ;D
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Yeti on July 21, 2011, 11:27:00 am
EDIT: WAIT! I can't tell if Platinum is more expensive than Gold or not.  If Maytag had more Platinum than Gold in her bag then that suggests it's worth less than Gold: http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=355

Maytag also has more gold in her bag than silver, and those electrum coins must be priceless. Dealing with coins which are both heavy and take up a good deal of space one should seek to carry as many of the highest denomination possible. No - I think you were right with your initial belief that platinium is worth more than gold returning to the again initial question of how many golds in a platinium.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: xrdn on July 21, 2011, 05:28:52 pm
yeah i do believe everything right now is just the calm before the crapstorm
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: charles on July 21, 2011, 06:12:46 pm
EDIT: WAIT! I can't tell if Platinum is more expensive than Gold or not.  If Maytag had more Platinum than Gold in her bag then that suggests it's worth less than Gold: http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=355

Maytag also has more gold in her bag than silver, and those electrum coins must be priceless. Dealing with coins which are both heavy and take up a good deal of space one should seek to carry as many of the highest denomination possible. No - I think you were right with your initial belief that platinium is worth more than gold returning to the again initial question of how many golds in a platinium.
Yes but in certain times and cultures, silver was considered more valuable than Gold... Or rather, Silver pieces were more valuable than Gold pieces.

If Bern really has $20,000 worth of money on her, I can't imagine that she'd be concerned about money but *shrug*

If she does have that much, maybe she's worried about having enough to still find her father and get home (although Maytag could always bring more for the return journey through the portal).
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Kiran on July 22, 2011, 12:41:41 am
200 platinium is only 2 silver, and stay at inn cost one silver?

Wow Bern really is naive, and poor...

Maybe we could get an info about currency in some intermission.

Or really prices here in Marvallo are much more higher, or Bern camping all the time doesn't have any kind of idea about real prices.

It's really lucky she met her old friend who won't use her, or let's hope she will try ^^

And now we would need a joke page where whole Polly home is decorated with Bern's portraits :D
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: das-g on July 22, 2011, 02:25:22 am
200 platinium is only 2 silver, and stay at inn cost one silver?

Makes me wonder whether the metals gold, silver and platinum occur in different relative proportions in the Flipside world than in ours. Or maybe the gold and silver coins are much smaller and lighter than silver coins?
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Maelstrom on July 22, 2011, 04:36:18 am
Quick art critique: Chapter 30, Page 19, Panel 5 (left side panel, middle row):

I think that horse's back right leg is bending in the wrong direction.  It looks like the horse's knee joint is bending like a human knee joint, that is in a forward direction.  But that particular joint on the hind leg of a horse bends in the other direction when it walks, that is to say, backwards:
All mammal knees bend in the same direction.  What you mistake for a knee is the back of the horse's foot - remember, that horses walk on the nail of their single, streightened finger.
Knees and elbows of horses are by their sides:

http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/4521/horsejoint.png
Blue circle - knee
Red circle - anckle joint (back of the foot).
Green circle - the first joint of the middle toe.

Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: charles on July 22, 2011, 05:13:49 am
200 platinium is only 2 silver, and stay at inn cost one silver?

Makes me wonder whether the metals gold, silver and platinum occur in different relative proportions in the Flipside world than in ours. Or maybe the gold and silver coins are much smaller and lighter than silver coins?

Nah, in earlier times, Silver coins really were more valuable than Gold.  About 15 Gold = 1 Silver was the steady ratio until the 1800s
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: IronSoul on July 22, 2011, 05:48:24 am
I thought it might also have been a commentary as to how much the value of currency differs across national borders. I mean, wasn't 200 platinum a fairly good amount of money in Iscariot? I wonder if it's a parody on more laws and bureaucracy and its consequences. Or maybe Bernadette's general lack of street smarts.

Or maybe I'm reading too much into it. I could see Brian going for at least more depth in the world with the currency difference though.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: charles on July 22, 2011, 05:58:45 am
Yeah, they could also be taking note that inflation is a problem in Marvallo, but if they're using the same coinage I can't imagine that the values of services and wares could differ that much or people of Iscariot would be exporting like mad to Marvallo and coming home with riches.

Its probably more to do with accommodation being scarce or something, so Marvallo (or at least that town) costs a lot for temporary accommodation, rent, land purchase, etc.

But even in our world, 1 Silver ($100) a night isn't too high above the general minimum for staying in a major town or city.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: IronSoul on July 22, 2011, 06:02:57 am
Yeah, they could also be taking note that inflation is a problem in Marvallo, but if they're using the same coinage I can't imagine that the values of services and wares could differ that much or people of Iscariot would be exporting like mad to Marvallo and coming home with riches.

Its probably more to do with accommodation being scarce or something, so Marvallo (or at least that town) costs a lot for temporary accommodation, rent, land purchase, etc.

But even in our world, 1 Silver ($100) a night isn't too high above the general minimum for staying in a major town or city.

No no, other way around, other way around. Realistically, even at its highest value, 100 platinum being worth one silver is a huge loss. I'm saying Iscariot is having the economic problems, as platinum is much more valuable than silver (if that was different in the past, I stand corrected, but I've never heard of that) and 200 being knocked down to 2 is also pretty staggering.

I'm saying that Marvallo's economy is actually pretty good in spite of their rather lawless system, while Iscariot's economy is doing poorly.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: popeyes on July 22, 2011, 06:33:11 am
Based on panel 4 of this page: http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic/book0/fs05pg14.html
1 silver = 10 gold

And based on the current chapter page as of this post, http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=1249,
1 silver = 100 platinum

In the Flipside universe, for some unknown reason, silver is worth more than gold and platinum (Due to sorcery perhaps?)
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Yeti on July 22, 2011, 09:34:50 am
Yes but in certain times and cultures, silver was considered more valuable than Gold... Or rather, Silver pieces were more valuable than Gold pieces.

If Bern really has $20,000 worth of money on her, I can't imagine that she'd be concerned about money but *shrug*

If she does have that much, maybe she's worried about having enough to still find her father and get home (although Maytag could always bring more for the return journey through the portal).

Looks like you were right. I wonder if this actually makes electrum coins the most valuable.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Nettlekid on July 22, 2011, 10:46:33 am
I just...I can't get over the name Polly. That Blackbird looks so tough and cool, badass and running the town. But "Polly" is the equivalent of that same cool girl falling on her face. I can't stop thinking of "Polly wanna cracker," Polly-O string cheese, and of course Basil Fawlty's manic raving "POLLY! Polly!...MANUEL!!" from the British comedy Fawlty Towers. I've been having trouble with Regina (just because that's my mom's name, so it's kind of weird for me >_>) but...Polly...Why not something like Abigail, and her nickname would be like Nightingale/gail?
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: vintage on July 22, 2011, 01:09:29 pm
I just...I can't get over the name Polly. That Blackbird looks so tough and cool, badass and running the town. But "Polly" is the equivalent of that same cool girl falling on her face. I can't stop thinking of "Polly wanna cracker," Polly-O string cheese, and of course Basil Fawlty's manic raving "POLLY! Polly!...MANUEL!!" from the British comedy Fawlty Towers. I've been having trouble with Regina (just because that's my mom's name, so it's kind of weird for me >_>) but...Polly...Why not something like Abigail, and her nickname would be like Nightingale/gail?

I didn't like the name Polly initially but now I'm used to it. I never cared for the name Regina either, and I absolutely hate the name Abigail xD Authors can't please everyone -- they're always going to come up with names and characters and storylines that don't jell with people. I voice when I'm displeased or happy with something in the comic, but I truly believe in the end authors should do their own thing in the end and take suggestions with a grain of salt.  ;D
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: gunsandrockets on July 22, 2011, 04:39:51 pm
Based on panel 4 of this page: http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic/book0/fs05pg14.html
1 silver = 10 gold

And based on the current chapter page as of this post, http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=1249,
1 silver = 100 platinum

In the Flipside universe, for some unknown reason, silver is worth more than gold and platinum (Due to sorcery perhaps?)

I think you are right.  The relative values of platinum-gold-silver are flipped  ;D compared to DnD.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: gunsandrockets on July 22, 2011, 04:55:11 pm
I thought it might also have been a commentary as to how much the value of currency differs across national borders. I mean, wasn't 200 platinum a fairly good amount of money in Iscariot? I wonder if it's a parody on more laws and bureaucracy and its consequences. Or maybe Bernadette's general lack of street smarts.

Or maybe I'm reading too much into it. I could see Brian going for at least more depth in the world with the currency difference though.

If Marvallo is as free-wheeling as we are led to believe, I find it hard to believe the pricing for similar services would be so much higher than in Iscariot.  Wouldn't cut-throat competition drive prices down?  Of course if competition only left one company standing, a sort of "hotel trust" could develop that could force the price of a room artificially high.

Is Bern being conned by Polly?  If so it is a dangerous con since Bern must have been exposed to a variety of pricing already whether it is the price of her drinks at the bar (where Bern met Polly) to the wares hawked by the street vendors.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: charles on July 22, 2011, 05:35:35 pm
Just to tackle the money problem one last time:

Through much of medieval europe, before the 1800s, Silver was more valuable than gold, so a silver coin was more valuable than a gold coin by about 15:1 on average through the years.

Platinum, while expensive today, was actually used for many years to create false/fake coins as its a metal often found in rocks containing gold and it also alloys with gold.  Which is why it is less valuable than even Gold.  Its also why people used to bite gold and silver coins, because platinum is much harder while gold and silver is softer.

However Platinum never really became a popular metal for coinage because it was more difficult to work with as a harder metal.  Its only in the last century that they've started to use it to create collectable coins.

In Iscariot (not sure about Marvollo exchange rate) the monetary values are roughly:
$1 = 1 Platinum
$10 = 1 Gold
$100 = 1 Silver
$1000 = 1 Electrum

Most fantasy writers generally don't bother going to the old medieval values of silver being more valuable than gold and gold more valuable than platinum because it confuses readers who are accustomed to the modern valuation of silver < gold < platinum (or because they don't know).
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Hans on July 23, 2011, 02:00:15 am
Just to tackle the money problem one last time:

Through much of medieval europe, before the 1800s, Silver was more valuable than gold, so a silver coin was more valuable than a gold coin by about 15:1 on average through the years.
Do you have sources for that?
I only find ones that claim it to have been the other way round.

Edit: There mostly seem to have been either gold or silver coins. Not both at the same time.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Shazam on July 25, 2011, 01:42:58 am
Just to tackle the money problem one last time:

Through much of medieval europe, before the 1800s, Silver was more valuable than gold, so a silver coin was more valuable than a gold coin by about 15:1 on average through the years.

Platinum, while expensive today, was actually used for many years to create false/fake coins as its a metal often found in rocks containing gold and it also alloys with gold.  Which is why it is less valuable than even Gold.  Its also why people used to bite gold and silver coins, because platinum is much harder while gold and silver is softer.

However Platinum never really became a popular metal for coinage because it was more difficult to work with as a harder metal.  Its only in the last century that they've started to use it to create collectable coins.

In Iscariot (not sure about Marvollo exchange rate) the monetary values are roughly:
$1 = 1 Platinum
$10 = 1 Gold
$100 = 1 Silver
$1000 = 1 Electrum

Most fantasy writers generally don't bother going to the old medieval values of silver being more valuable than gold and gold more valuable than platinum because it confuses readers who are accustomed to the modern valuation of silver < gold < platinum (or because they don't know).

This isn't correct to my understanding.

Here are a small # of references that would refute this:

Peter Spufford's very pertinent book: Money and its use in Medieval Europe (http://books.google.com/books?id=MoyNhwhSVYAC&pg=PA178&lpg=PA178)

UC Davis Professor's Richard Cowen's essay from one of his classes, Medieval Silver and Gold (http://mygeologypage.ucdavis.edu/cowen/~gel115/115ch7.html)

Senator John Jones' Treatise - Scroll to bottom to the heading HISTORY OF THE RELATIVE VALUE OF GOLD AND SILVER. (http://yamaguchy.com/library/jones/jones_01a.html)

Further, I can't find any medieval period references to platinum. Wikipedia's discusison of the history of platinum puts its European discovery/discussion at 16th century and then it wasn't used as currency:
History of Platinum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platinum#History)

In short, I think the above is simply incorrect and inconsistent with accepted historic fact. It can be true in this world, but not the real one. Certainly I can find numerous additional texts which reference a 12-14.5:1 ratio of value of gold to silver depending on the century. I can't find any which show the 10:1 silver to gold ratio you purport.

Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Azure Priest on July 25, 2011, 08:03:36 am
All I can say with certainty concerning this subject is that once upon a time, in the Caribbean, silver miners considered a gray, powdery metal that they found with silver as trash and would throw it away, until someone discovered that when alloyed with Iron, made it far stronger and resistant to rust and the sea, so they made the cannons to guard the silver ships out of this alloy. Only later, did historians learn that these cannons were actually far more valuable than the silver they were guarding because this gray powder is platinum.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Nettlekid on July 25, 2011, 09:59:52 am
Actually yeah I'd have to agree, I wouldn't have liked Abigail either. I like all the names that aren't actually names in the real world, but just names made for comics or shows or things. Maytag is a perfect example. Don't know anyone named Crest, or Glyph. Mayweather and Taggert, obviously. Although Bernadette is a real name, it's uncommon enough to still feel unique. And of course, I agree that it's entirely up to the author and what sounds right for them. I just don't like Polly. '~'
By the way, is there a guest artist right now, or is it a different drawing style that's being experimented with?
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Kiran on July 25, 2011, 12:15:44 pm
I'm too curious if this is an original guest story, or a further comic story done by a guest artist?
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Brion Foulke on July 25, 2011, 08:39:25 pm
Back from San Diego!  I think it's time to answer a few questions.

Regarding Money: Charles is right.  It's:
$1 = 1 Platinum
$10 = 1 Gold
$100 = 1 Silver
$1000 = 1 Electrum

This is backwards from DND money.  The reason why is not a reference to the fact that silver used to be more valuable (if that is indeed true, I wasn't aware.)  It's just because I like to be different.  And in fact, if I could go back and start Flipside over I'd probably use dollars instead of coins, or perhaps a more original type of money.  It's too cliche to use a DND coin system in a fantasy setting.  But I'm stuck with it now.

Regarding Marvallo's Economy: It is a much more capitalist and laissez-faire type of country than Iscariot.  However, prices tend to be more expensive overall.  This is due to inflation.  This is not what you'd first expect, but there's a reason for why this is, which I won't go into at this time.

Regarding Polly's Name: Yeah, I can see why some people might not be fans of this name.  I just happen to really like the name Polly.  If you don't like it, feel free to keep thinking of her as Blackbird.

Regarding the Guest Strips: I commented on these in several places, but these are written by me.  So you can think of them as being canonical, even if they are guest strips.  There might be a few more next week... not sure if I'm gonna write those yet.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: dg86 on July 27, 2011, 02:01:29 am
Ehhh...well, considering I read another webcomic that was formerly called Blackbird (now called Carciphona), anytime I hear Blackbird, I think of a badass black and red assassin that can't maintain a serious demeanor to save her life, and is completely and utterly awesome.

So, I'll stick with Polly.

Platinum being worthless just because = -_-...

Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: 9_6 on July 27, 2011, 03:17:48 am
Maytag actually looks like a tomboy with much more personality here.

Mr. Foulke... that artist kicks your ass in visually characterizing maytag.
Might be related to her not having a mouth smaller than my nostril =P
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Alcapter on July 27, 2011, 07:53:38 am
Dear Mr Brion :)

I saw you changed drawing style in last 2 panels. First thought was that it was some king of a guest strip or so. Although they are very nice too I just love the old style.
Of course its only your decision about the drawing style, but I as a reader can share my opinion. If u would ask me I would say go back to previous style - IT KICKS ASS!

P.S. Out of MANY online comics I read, U ARE THE BEST, always remember that :)
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Alcapter on July 27, 2011, 07:58:24 am
aww, now I checked again, and the last 2 panels arent signed by u, so they are probable a guest srtips :)
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Chag4 on July 29, 2011, 03:39:32 am
(edited to remove spam link -admin)

Spam?
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: 9_6 on July 30, 2011, 04:45:28 am
No links to scam sites plz. Not even in quote boxes.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Kiran on August 02, 2011, 09:51:21 am
Current page scared me as hell when it loaded...
 :'(
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Brion Foulke on August 02, 2011, 10:12:42 am
There's gonna be guest strips for the rest of the week, the regular comic will start again next week.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: 9_6 on August 03, 2011, 04:29:44 am
So is the sexually frustrated honey badger canon now?
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: ipatrol on August 03, 2011, 06:36:50 am
Back from San Diego!  I think it's time to answer a few questions.

Regarding Money: Charles is right.  It's:
$1 = 1 Platinum
$10 = 1 Gold
$100 = 1 Silver
$1000 = 1 Electrum

This is backwards from DND money.  The reason why is not a reference to the fact that silver used to be more valuable (if that is indeed true, I wasn't aware.)  It's just because I like to be different.  And in fact, if I could go back and start Flipside over I'd probably use dollars instead of coins, or perhaps a more original type of money.  It's too cliche to use a DND coin system in a fantasy setting.  But I'm stuck with it now.

Regarding Marvallo's Economy: It is a much more capitalist and laissez-faire type of country than Iscariot.  However, prices tend to be more expensive overall.  This is due to inflation.  This is not what you'd first expect, but there's a reason for why this is, which I won't go into at this time.


I'm no economist, but I can think of a few reasons. Since these are precious metals and not fiat currency, inflation can only be caused by mining. I commented that Flipside resembles a volcanic island, so the prevelance of minerals in the ground could differ signifigantly from the global mean. If Marvallo has a large precious metal reserves and Iscariot restricts the flow of these metals across the border, then a signifigant price differential can form for currency. Also, the apparently reversed values can be the result of an inverted prevelance of accessable ore. If very little of the gold is refractory and the silver veins are too deep, then those factors and the lack of uses for platinum could create that valuation. This is akin to the inversion of prices for rice, and wheat are reversed between East Asia and the West.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Aster Azul on August 07, 2011, 11:46:41 pm
I love this arc.  :-*

Highly recommend Demon's Souls, Brion. If you like to die, you'll love Demon's Souls.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: SAGG on August 08, 2011, 11:25:02 am
Teddy Pendergrass would've been proud: "Turn Out The Lights"...  ;D
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Eversist on August 08, 2011, 02:36:13 pm
Anyone else seeing this as an opportunity for "Snowpatch" to be tempted, and know what Maytag is going through?
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Kiran on August 08, 2011, 02:53:20 pm
Well I wouldn't be surprised if Polly tried to make some move now.

After all I don't think Polly knows that Bern is already taken, and as I recall Bern left her gang right after seeing Polly in bed with her previous girlfriend, so maybe now is the time to do some catching up.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: vintage on August 09, 2011, 04:57:26 am
Either catching up or some move-making would be welcome to me. I couldn't stop imagining some bow-chicka-wow music when Polly got the lights  ;D

I also have some sneaking amusement that Brion's trolling us, and they're going to end up playing Scrabble, lol.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: SAGG on August 09, 2011, 12:14:38 pm
Yes, Polly, you ARE strange.  ;D Hold up your hands everyone: Who here has an all-black room(s?) in their home? Thought so.  8)
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Jety Lefr on August 10, 2011, 09:05:38 am
this latest page reminds me of a poem I wrote a long time ago.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: SAGG on August 10, 2011, 01:41:05 pm
Hm. I never quite thought of light as burning and blinding. Bern. Get. Out. Now.  ;D
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: L0g0s on August 11, 2011, 07:45:33 pm
It burns us my precious!  IT BURNSSS!!!!!   SSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!



Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Kiran on August 12, 2011, 05:47:33 am
Shouldn't Polly interpret Bern last line as an invitation?
 :P

Well I too think much better sitting in dark room without any kind of distractions than under the bright sun with all windows open but still all black interior is a bit too strange for my taste.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: vintage on August 15, 2011, 07:47:46 am
And so they arrive at Clairen. While Polly's drunk, no less  ;D Wonder what this will lead to. Interesting how Polly says "Your girlfriend Clairen" ...

Polly's teardrop also makes me think. If teardrop tattoos also represent someone's death in the Flipside world, maybe it's for Clairen.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Kanazaka on August 15, 2011, 05:35:07 pm
I like the vibe of the conversation between Polly and Bern -- ethereal and chill.  Maybe now we'll find out a lot more about Bern and Clairen.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: charles on August 15, 2011, 09:30:19 pm
Yeah, Polly is intoxicated and might say a few things she doesn't intend, but Bern is still sobre... I wonder if there is some magic behind her resistance to alcohol... Maybe some spell was cast on her when she was young and that explains her hatred for sorcerers beyond her devotion to become a knight like her father.

It'll be interesting to see how Polly deals with the news of Clairen's death.  This whole thing is a minefield for information and the like.  She slept with Clairen, knowing she was Bern's girlfriend and now she finds out about Clairen's reunion with Bern and her death... Maybe the Enforcers know something about this Thin Man which Polly will reveal.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Kiran on August 16, 2011, 12:07:58 am
And so they arrive at Clairen. While Polly's drunk, no less  ;D Wonder what this will lead to. Interesting how Polly says "Your girlfriend Clairen" ...

Polly's teardrop also makes me think. If teardrop tattoos also represent someone's death in the Flipside world, maybe it's for Clairen.
What if Bern wrongly interpreted that scene where she walked on Polly and Clairen nude in that bed?
What if they landed there due to being drunk but nothing sexual happened.

And then Bern immediately left tha gang without any kind of explenation.

Excuse my bad memory, but did Bern and Clairen had a talk about this in book 0?

If yeas then you can dismiss what I wrote above.

As for Bern drinking habit, well maybe she's a first Thin Man creation who got such a power while loosing her resistance to magic :P

Seriously I find it cute that Bern says "Magic<3", she too feels relaxed, I don't think there's any magic behind it, she just has strong head, I suppose having strong head doesn't make Bern having strong will cause she ends badly with magic where she needs strong willpower.

Yup I hope Bern will tell Polly all about this and the Thin Man, maybe Polly too knows something being some kind of power figure here.
And I'm waiting when Bern will tell Polly about May, I wonder if Bern could open to Polly and tell her all what she gone through with her and about May nature and get an opinion from neutral observant in this case.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: vintage on August 17, 2011, 07:37:37 am
It's definitely possible Bern interpreted the scene wrong, though rereading the Maneater chapters it doesn't seem so. Clairen repeatedly apologizes to Bern, with a cryptic "for everything." We didn't know anyone was a lesbian back then so they didn't discuss it further than that. I guess we'll find out.

It does seem alcohol loosens Bern up at least. I'm not sure she would have said "Well you did sleep with her" otherwise. And Polly didn't know Clairen was dead so I wonder who the teardrop is for, unless it's just decoration. ^^
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Kiran on August 20, 2011, 02:21:25 am
Well so cat is out of the bag, Polly admitted it.

I wonder how this will turn out.

Maybe Polly will say she wanted to sleep with Bern but was happy with getting Clairen instead, then Bern sleeping with Clairen but wanting to sleep with Polly in reality, would make it indirect sex between Polly and Bern situation :P
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Hans on August 22, 2011, 12:10:06 pm
So Blackpolly is not always content with her own lifestyle.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Kiran on August 27, 2011, 01:14:48 am
The place seems pretty dead...

So who think that Polly will give now Bern an old love letter which she didn't have courage to give to Bern and instead gone for Clairen(so she did the same thing Bern did in a way)?
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Eversist on August 29, 2011, 12:30:00 am
I think that it's more likely a letter from Clairen to Polly, concerning Bern.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: vintage on August 29, 2011, 01:31:12 pm
Right on the money, Kiran.

I was hoping it would be something different, not sure what to think of today's developments. Guess I'll wait for Bern's reaction first before I decide.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Hans on August 29, 2011, 11:14:16 pm
So my guess:
When Maytag hears of this, she will suggest a threesome.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Kiran on August 29, 2011, 11:42:50 pm
So I nailed it 8)

Also it will be a foursome...
If Bern would bring Polly for fun then May will do the same with Regina.

Let's see which cookie will crumble first, May loved Regina, Bern loved Polly, now Bern learns that Polly too loved her in the past, still do, and they could be together happily.
Now Bern should either mention she has a girlfriend she is loyal too and the case will be closed, or she will want to give a try for this temptation and maybe succumb and go for Polly, but this is Bern and there's no magic involved so doubt it.

Now we need for Regina to tell May she loves her too, and we will have a clear situation.

I suppose I'm the only person who would want to see May being and acting hurt if Bern would cheat on her with someone, like other thing is to tell yourself it won't bother you, but if it would happen being mad about it.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: SAGG on August 30, 2011, 07:32:25 am
So my guess:
When Maytag hears of this, she will suggest a threesome.

 :lol:
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: SAGG on August 30, 2011, 07:34:55 am
I think the underlying subject in this chapter is temptation for both Maytag and Bern. Will they stay loyal to each other?
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Eversist on August 30, 2011, 03:31:43 pm
I think the underlying subject in this chapter is temptation for both Maytag and Bern. Will they stay loyal to each other?

Anyone else seeing this as an opportunity for "Snowpatch" to be tempted, and know what Maytag is going through?

Yeah, me too.

Man, I was hoping this wasn't a confession from Polly, for some reason. Oh, well. Awkwardness shall abound, looking forward to seeing how Brion writes Bern out of this one! :)
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: L0g0s on August 30, 2011, 06:56:24 pm
Okay, I just read the letter.

Cue drama in 3, 2, 1!
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Kiran on September 02, 2011, 03:35:33 pm
I wonder what Bern will do now since her lost first love wish got fulfilled now like that strangely...

Give in Bern!
 :-*
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Kiran on September 08, 2011, 12:55:01 am
So finally a secret behind Bern scar will be revealed, I can't wait.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Azure Priest on September 09, 2011, 05:30:05 am
Well, considering removing a scar probably requires sorcery, Bern could just say "it's because I hate magic."
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Kiran on September 09, 2011, 08:56:43 am
Seeing how Bern acts, it's rather clear she didn't want to have it removed out of sentiment for her first love, as a reminder...

But I suppose saying that would be quite embarrassing, so I would not be surprised if she told the thing about hating magic excuse.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Oddball on September 09, 2011, 10:14:27 am
I think Bern kept it as a reminder of Polly.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: 9_6 on September 09, 2011, 04:37:39 pm
There's only one possible outcome this can culminate to: A huge lesbian orgy.
I approve.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: SAGG on September 10, 2011, 03:00:50 pm
I think Bern kept it as a reminder of Polly.

Or of Bern knowing she's not invincible when she's in battle. Keeps her humble.  ;)
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Eversist on September 11, 2011, 11:17:34 pm
This could easily be explained away by her aversion to magic, right?
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Kiran on September 12, 2011, 11:53:17 am
 :-*

Will Bern give in fully or not?

Placing bets!

Maybe soon we will get a skip to morning where Bern will awake thinking what she had done...

But I'm bet that she will smack Polly hard next page and will refuse it...

Now I would have a question to Bern who is better kisser, May or Polly :P
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: SAGG on September 12, 2011, 12:30:55 pm
 :o  Okay, then. Hmmm--is it me, or is Polly's ponytail spinning?  :P

Next installment should be interesting...   8)
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: RoninAngel on September 13, 2011, 12:05:17 pm
You can say whatever you want about about Bernadette, but she has amazing taste in women. Maytag and now Backbird?!? SHE IS SO BEAUTIFUL! NOM NOM NOM!  :-*
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: RoninAngel on September 14, 2011, 11:08:19 am
It's such a sad moment. I feel bad for them.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Kiran on September 14, 2011, 01:02:37 pm
You can say whatever you want about about Bernadette, but she has amazing taste in women. Maytag and now Backbird?!? SHE IS SO BEAUTIFUL! NOM NOM NOM!  :-*
Agreed to that!

Polly is just so beautiful and kinda refined, her face in panel 3 of newest update is just so alluring, how can anyone resist that...
Bern self control and love for May must be indeed not from this world :P

But yeah for sure a sad moment when you're first love gets fulfiled in such moment you can't follow it, not without breaking your own moral standards.

It might turn even worse if Bern would tell Polly about May and surprisingly Polly would tell her she slept with her on some occasion in the past ;D
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: SAGG on September 14, 2011, 01:31:09 pm
You can say whatever you want about about Bernadette, but she has amazing taste in women. Maytag and now Backbird?!? SHE IS SO BEAUTIFUL! NOM NOM NOM!  :-*
Agreed to that!

Polly is just so beautiful and kinda refined, her face in panel 3 of newest update is just so alluring, how can anyone resist that...
Bern self control and love for May must be indeed not from this world :P

But yeah for sure a sad moment when you're first love gets fulfiled in such moment you can't follow it, not without breaking your own moral standards.

It might turn even worse if Bern would tell Polly about May and surprisingly Polly would tell her she slept with her on some occasion in the past ;D

That's a...really twisted thought.  :o  ;D
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: L0g0s on September 14, 2011, 01:58:21 pm
Sheet ------->  Fan.   :-X


Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: dg86 on September 14, 2011, 09:41:17 pm
If this was Menage a 3, that ring would have accidentally been left on, and Maytag would be blaring over the ringternet: "Fuck her all you want!  Just make sure to save some for me!"

Really, both May and Bern seem to be worse off by NOT nomming on the nearest cutie they find.  Which really sucks for them both because they'd probably be happier for each other if they knowingly "cheated" on each other.

Oh, the dramatic irony.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: RoninAngel on September 14, 2011, 11:28:01 pm
yeah but it's all Bern's fault. Maytag already said she would be into it. Now Bern is finding out how difficult it (fidelity) can be.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Jety Lefr on September 15, 2011, 09:00:44 am
Stay strong Bern. You are the strong one. You are the strongest woman of them all.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Oddball on September 15, 2011, 03:26:50 pm
Bern is going to crumple like a tower made out of cards.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Jety Lefr on September 15, 2011, 04:54:04 pm
NooooooOOOOOO!!!!
Don't listen to him! He's not Canon!
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: L0g0s on September 16, 2011, 04:16:11 am
I've got a mad mental cackle going on now.  Not because of the comic directly, but because of the other fans reactions to the comic.   

Does this make me a bad person?
Never mind, doesn't matter.  :)


My reaction to the comic itself?  "Tsk, Bernadette you (unintentional) tease!"
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: dg86 on September 16, 2011, 12:15:18 pm
Latest page= teh borked.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: RoninAngel on September 16, 2011, 12:47:56 pm
That was kind of anticlimactic.
Now what? they're just going to sleep in different places until Bernedette goes back to Maytag?
I don't usually like drama, but that sounds kinda... boring. :/
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Brion Foulke on September 16, 2011, 01:06:45 pm
Don't worry Ronin... Polly's far from out of the story yet.  It's just that, with so many people wanting the story to move faster, I didn't want to waste even a single page on something trivial like sleeping arrangements.  It's probably a little abrupt but we're picking up with them again the next day so I think it should generally read fine.

It's always cool to see people react in different ways to your story.  If everyone were reacting the same way, I think that would be a sign that I failed as a writer.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Oddball on September 16, 2011, 03:59:23 pm
*In the style of the Emperor in Star Wars*

Come Bern give in to temptation, come over to the Dark Side for we have milk and cookies.  *Cackle*
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: L0g0s on September 16, 2011, 05:41:46 pm
Come now people.  It's not so cut and dried as that. 

People don't give in to temptation all at once.  It's a waiting game.

Temptation *Wears* at you.  Slowly eroding your self restraint...  >:}


"Lord, lead me not unto temptation, for I know the way!"
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Kiran on September 16, 2011, 10:18:04 pm
Well it would be interesting if Polly joined our main group of adventurers in the end with single thing in mind to win Bern over in long run as a reason.

It would be interesting to see May having a rival who who is not a person who sleeps around but is more similiar to Bern where relationships go.

Maybe, but just maybe May would get jealous about Polly if she tagged along and would court and flirt with Bern slowly, not giving any attention at all to May, and not wanting any silly threesomes deals.

I like the slow pace of current chapter, if flashes character more, but I suppose if I got such pacing in fights then it would be boring.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: ipatrol on September 17, 2011, 05:15:06 am
You know what's so funny about this? Maytag by her own admission would not care if Bern gave in, and a threesome would probably be suggested at some point.

They say history plays first time like a tragedy and second time as a farce. So it it with Bernadette's life story. For a second back there, Bern seemed like she was enjoying that kiss. :-X
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: ducky_worshiper on September 17, 2011, 02:05:27 pm
Honestly, I'll be really sad if Bernadette does give in.  I'm 100% supportive of people having alternative views of love and relationships, but I'd hate to have Bernadette's particular view portrayed as "wrong" whereas Maytag's idea of polyamory is "right," and seeing Bernadette giving up what she believes in so strongly just seems wrong to me.  (I'm not saying this has happened at all; I think Flipside has done a great job of showing the ups and downs of multiple views without painting any particular one as right or wrong). 

I'm really hoping that Bernadette and Maytag are either able to find a way to work out their issues without either one of them having to really give up the values they hold, or else they will be forced to break up.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Kiran on September 19, 2011, 10:26:04 am
Today's page give a nice setting to see if both lovers will be telling each other the truth and not hide anything.

I bet that May will tell Bern about Regina(it would be a surprise if May told her the truth she's attracted/in love with her but it may happen if May is totally honest with Bern), and it will be interesting if Bern will say in return about Polly and that she kissed her.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: L0g0s on September 22, 2011, 06:02:35 pm
Guilt trip time!
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: 9_6 on September 23, 2011, 05:44:40 am
Bern won't tell may about the kiss.
Will probably start something as a knee jerk reaction. Is now the one keeping the secrets.
Then, may finds out. And then there will be a lesbian orgy. The day will come. Mark my words.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: RoninAngel on September 23, 2011, 10:06:37 am
I hope your right. As I said, I'm not a huge fan of the drama, but if it leads to a lesbian orgy, I can always get on board.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Kiran on September 24, 2011, 12:57:52 am
So Polly gone with her on this little trip.

Yeah Bern, nothing to talk about :P

Well if May kept cheating over Bern for years as a secret where she actively had sex with interesting people coming from both genders, then one innocent kiss with former love shouldn't be a big deal for Bern to handle right?

But knowing Bern after that promise they made and hearing that May try to keep it in her pants:P hiding this will hurt her more emotionally than what May was feeling after cheating on Bern on constant basis in the past.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Shay on September 24, 2011, 03:28:14 pm
Hm... So Bernadette fell in love with Blackbird, ran off when Clairen slept with her, kept the scar (given to her by Blackbird) for years, spent the night at Blackbird's place, got kissed and confessed to by her... and only then admitted she had a girlfriend, and is now travelling with Blackbird after all of that. It doesn't exactly paint a 'knightly' picture, which is what Bern always seems to be aspiring to be.

Maybe the reason Bern is keeping quiet has less to do with how Maytag would react, and more to do with how it makes Bern look to admit all of that stuff.

Of course, keeping all of it a secret just makes it all look worse but... Bern herself has admitted she has a bad habit of keeping things to herself.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: RoninAngel on September 26, 2011, 01:14:09 pm
pretty shady, bernadette, pretty shady.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Kiran on September 28, 2011, 09:07:57 am
Cheer up Bern, you have a sexy tempting companion who want to help you, nothing to worry about 8)

Am I bad that I would prefer Bern choosing Polly over May, and then just stay with May as best friends?
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Rhadan on September 30, 2011, 12:46:04 am
I think Bern probably doesn't mention Blackbird to Maytag, because Maytag knows about Bern's prior feelings to her.

And the last thing Bern wants to hear right now is "Oh, great! Catch up, have a good time, you can sleep with her!"

Because then she could, but knows she wouldn't and Maytag would be like, "Please do ..." and ...

Well, chaos.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Emp_Dragon on September 30, 2011, 02:20:10 am
@^Mmm... Chaos :p
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: MachaBadb on September 30, 2011, 04:17:21 am
I will aim out the ballpark and call it possible pregnancy? IDK.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Emp_Dragon on September 30, 2011, 06:30:17 am
With two homosexual women... I doubt pregnancy is even remotely possible XD (oups hadn't read the bonus page XS)

So I guess there might be a little one in suspi :)
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: SparcMan on September 30, 2011, 08:44:27 pm
Based on the answer he received in the 2nd panel, I think that Crest was meant to say "Did we miss it?" Rather than "Did we make it?"
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Kiran on October 01, 2011, 03:02:41 am
With two homosexual women... I doubt pregnancy is even remotely possible XD (oups hadn't read the bonus page XS)

So I guess there might be a little one in suspi :)
Well there's magic so I think that problem may be solved if enough money is given.
I wouldn't be surprised, if they can regrow body easily, and seeing how Thin Man magic changes a person even on cell level, then everything is possible, even two women having kids.

Maybe may urges of seeking new interesting people to have sex with would stop completely after getting pregnant...
But then, can you support a family just from being a jester and wannabe bodyguard?

Crest finally got a kiss, and seeing Suspiria thanking Crest like that gives me a feeling that something bad will happen to her soon.

And maybe May will pick up Moby's costume.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: SAGG on October 05, 2011, 06:33:51 am
Geez--talk about being in front of an audience in your underwear...except it's NOT underwear, it's your Birthday Suit!  :o  Maytag, you're gonna have to pull off some REAL great jokes to distract the crowd!  ;D
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: RoninAngel on October 05, 2011, 11:51:20 am
They've done it now! Maytag is only more funny and more naughty when she's half dressed but still has her hat on!
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Jety Lefr on October 05, 2011, 12:20:41 pm
If it was the kind of cheating that involved theft I could forgive it... there's nothing wrong with stealing.
But cheating by other means is too immoral.
GRARRR!!!
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: ducky_worshiper on October 05, 2011, 02:21:37 pm
They've done it now! Maytag is only more funny and more naughty when she's half dressed but still has her hat on!

The hat appears to be disintegrating at the same rate as the rest of the comic if you look at the last panels.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Azure Priest on October 06, 2011, 06:05:29 am
The plan was disintegrate BEFORE going on stage. Disintegrate WHILE ON STAGE, ok. Yeah. Real douche move there.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Kiran on October 06, 2011, 06:43:50 am
For sure this will bring more drama than if May would loose her suit before and simply wouldn't go on stage.

Jerk move indeed.

Knowing May without costume she would cover and just run off the stage since the hat too disappears, meaning she will loose her confidance.

Or maybe May will withstand this and will turn it into some sudden sexual themed joke and will win the audience where her old mentors will loose this game.

If she will loose then she will be depressed and to who she will turn to comfort?
Regina, so such scenario too could happen.

Edit:
Ok, next page will be interesting to see how May will react to this forcefull reveal ploy.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: SAGG on October 07, 2011, 11:54:11 am
For sure this will bring more drama than if May would loose her suit before and simply wouldn't go on stage.

Jerk move indeed.

Knowing May without costume she would cover and just run off the stage since the hat too disappears, meaning she will loose her confidance.

Or maybe May will withstand this and will turn it into some sudden sexual themed joke and will win the audience where her old mentors will loose this game.

If she will loose then she will be depressed and to who she will turn to comfort?
Regina, so such scenario too could happen.

Edit:
Ok, next page will be interesting to see how May will react to this forcefull reveal ploy.

After seeing 10/7 one, I'm thinking your second prediction with her old mentors losing the game. :)
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: akashayi on October 07, 2011, 09:25:35 pm
hmmm.... hard to see how this will end well.  ???  :(

Still! May has a nice ass and I wish I had that spell at my disposal! ;P
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: RoninAngel on October 09, 2011, 04:32:04 pm
Brion, your author appeal is showing! :P
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AuthorAppeal
Actually, I feel like this might be good for Maytag. Her over-reliance on the suit is her primary weakness, and if she can somehow manage to be assertive without it, it will be an amazing boon for her in the long run. :)
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Azure Priest on October 10, 2011, 07:39:29 am
"She will never forgive us." May's the LEAST of your worries, pal. If BERN finds out....

"There are no words in the language of men, dwarves, elves or ents to describe this betrayal, BAAALRUMMM! My business is with" these clowns tonight.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: ducky_worshiper on October 10, 2011, 12:00:35 pm
"She will never forgive us."

I don't understand what made them think she would have forgiven them if it had happened before she went on stage, had she found out they were responsible.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Kiran on October 10, 2011, 01:39:19 pm
"She will never forgive us." May's the LEAST of your worries, pal. If BERN finds out....

"There are no words in the language of men, dwarves, elves or ents to describe this betrayal, BAAALRUMMM! My business is with" these clowns tonight.
Oh yeah!
I don't think Bern would be as forgiving as May is, but Bern is somewhere else busy currently with her own problem named Polly, so if any getting nude for the crowd accident doesn't beat the kiss with former love for now, so Bern would be still loosing that ^^

Let's just see how much May flashy nature goes, after all she posed for Kin without problems not having a hat as I recall fully nude, so I'm betting that the two guys simply understimated old Maytag with new hardened version.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Azure Priest on October 12, 2011, 05:34:25 am
Ok, Maytag was just disrobed against her will obviously BY SORCERY and the judges are considering disqualifying HER?!? What kind of bias is that? :o

That look on May's face at the end says it all. NOW she understands full well why....

1.) Bern hates sorcery.

2.) Bern does NOT like being disrobed, even by a scanner, without her explicit consent.

Further May is very quick on the uptake, she has scanned the audience and after seeing the reactions knows full well who is responsible. May forgives a great deal, but you DON'T MESS WITH HER ACT. PERIOD.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: SAGG on October 12, 2011, 01:48:04 pm
Can't wait to see how May responds. I think she'll come through, for some reason....  ;)
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: ducky_worshiper on October 13, 2011, 03:36:58 pm
Ok, Maytag was just disrobed against her will obviously BY SORCERY and the judges are considering disqualifying HER?!? What kind of bias is that? :o

Just because the disrobing was obviously done via sorcery doesn't mean that they would automatically know it was against her will, even if she seems surprised.  Until they speak with her (and fortunately the last guy did say that they need to hear her out) they have no way to know whether it was a stunt done by her to get more attention or a cruelty committed by someone else against her will.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Kiran on October 14, 2011, 12:30:53 am
Looks like it, May explains the situation.
Now I hope they will allow her to get back from stage, dress in spare costume and try again, of course i hope the judges have some decency not to tell May she can finish her joke looking like that.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Jety Lefr on October 17, 2011, 04:02:00 pm
bricks are definitely better
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: FyreFennec on October 18, 2011, 04:01:22 pm
Please let it be pie please let it be pie . . . XP  :P
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Kiran on October 20, 2011, 12:56:22 am
And now the two guys will see they created a May monster :D

And as for bricks filler page, well I can't picture Bern without bricks...
Makes me wonder when the first page showed this kind of trope that Bern needs to throw bricks or hit May with, what was the reasoning behind it originally, absurd fun?
For sure it worked.

It would be nice seeing Bern hitting someone with a brick in the proper comic on some occasion too, maybe not in joke aspect, but in a fight or so.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: gyoza on October 20, 2011, 01:52:01 pm
It first happened here, I believe:
http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=157

Had me laughing for a good while :)
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: SAGG on October 20, 2011, 03:56:26 pm
Oh, yeah. May's getting control of the situation. I think she'll be just fine...  ;)
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Kiran on October 21, 2011, 12:56:28 am
It first happened here, I believe:
http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=157

Had me laughing for a good while :)
So it was May's own fault there...

No excuses, bricks must stay ::)
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Azure Priest on October 21, 2011, 09:28:29 am
Nice recovery, Maytag. She knows who's behind it too. Prepare for ownage, "mentors."
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: SAGG on October 22, 2011, 10:54:22 am
Nice recovery, Maytag. She knows who's behind it too. Prepare for ownage, "mentors."


I don't think she knows yet. I see no evidence of your conjecture. Maytag is winning the audience over, though.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Hans on October 23, 2011, 01:19:26 am
Maytag confident on stage without costume. Could it be that on stage the stage is her costume? Or replaces it.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Azure Priest on October 24, 2011, 05:03:17 am
Nice recovery, Maytag. She knows who's behind it too. Prepare for ownage, "mentors."


I don't think she knows yet. I see no evidence of your conjecture. Maytag is winning the audience over, though.

"It's because of my 'Condition.' Anyone who KNOWS ME..."

She may not be able to prove it, yet. But she knows.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Kiran on October 24, 2011, 01:01:41 pm
May's secret?

What can it be?

I'm a nymphomaniac jester girl even without costume?

Or we will get classy "I'm hard in love!"...

Or in next page we will see this is not May but someone else and the real May got kidnapped earlier...
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: ducky_worshiper on October 24, 2011, 05:33:37 pm
Maytag confident on stage without costume. Could it be that on stage the stage is her costume? Or replaces it.

I was thinking something similar.  That she's confident on stage, and her costume helps her feel like she's on stage so that's why it gives her confidence off stage.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: BillMo on October 25, 2011, 01:17:00 pm
May's secret?

What can it be?

...

Panel 5 here http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=1171 (http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=1171)
Notice the ring is worn even when not communicating with Bern

Then after the long distance view in Panel 2 here http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=1315 (http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=1315) the right hand is painfully blocked from view.

Methinks, we see Fata Morgana.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: gyoza on October 26, 2011, 03:48:07 pm
Oh snap! Maytag took rule number 221 of the Evil Overlord list to heart :)

But now I wonder... who's the one person in the room who knows about this? Can't be Crest, Regina, or her former mentors... Bern might know but she's not around.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Shay on October 26, 2011, 04:04:33 pm
Is this the truth? Or... some sort of plan?

There are definitely a few situations where Shy!Maytag made things more inconvenient. Like getting tortured by Moss, or at least when Voulger stripped her in the street. I mean... if Bern hadn't showed up... would she have pretended to weak and scared while Crest getting killed for her?

 
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Brillig on October 26, 2011, 05:44:35 pm
I never really thought she had a "condition".  ;D I didn't realise it was an act, but it seemed she was like most people: out going or quieter depending on the mood she was in. Everybody needs time to themselves. Wearing the jester outfit coincided with times she was likely to be extroverted anyways.

As to her suddenly being shy when voulger torn the outfit off, wouldn't you be a bit scared and quiet suddenly when you realised you couldn't do much to stop someone from hurting you?

I know I myself seem rather quiet and introverted to most, until I'm with friends I'm feeling relaxed with or up on a stage. My guess is that Maytag simply chooses, like me, whether she feels like being shy or not. The difference is that she made it out to be a condition, something she had no control over, and that never seemed likely to me.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Eversist on October 26, 2011, 07:52:22 pm
May this, in itself, is an act.

And I would guess that it's Bern that knows her "secret."
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Darque on October 27, 2011, 02:48:47 am
Is there a single aspect of this woman's character that isn't a lie?  -_-
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: SAGG on October 27, 2011, 11:43:19 am
What, what, WHAAAT?  :o  An "act"? Is Maytag serious?  :o
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Kiran on October 27, 2011, 12:05:51 pm
If this is an act and it was such a big secret so why May revealed it like that in front of so many people?

And really in her previous suitless accidents she really looked genuine, and Bern too looked as a person who would not think that was an act.

So I bet that Bern doesn't know about it if it's true.

But more real for me is that what May doing now is an act itself to show others and herself she's confidant.

If not then really I wonder what May is really doing.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Shazam on October 27, 2011, 01:40:37 pm
My main issues (and I presume some will be mitigated by upcoming strips) are:

1. It isn't funny. Someone's costume dissolving, their being a bit uncomfy is funny in the classic "It is funny if it happens to someone else sort of way), especially if she rallied and started telling jokes about it. Talking about conditions, being sabotaged, and a tale of her background might get shock, pity, horror, sympathy, but it isn't setting the mood to be sidesplitting funny which is her goal. Why is she even having this monologue even if it is true? If she isn't affected she should have turned the event to benefit.

2. It is a let down, since others have pointed out there have been situations in the past where she either hadn't expected to interact with people outside her costume where the persona was consistent, and times where maintaining that persona was out and out dangerous, where here it would just be a bit awkward.

If she didn't want to risk the personal when people's health was in danger, why risk it now for a random impulse to have a show? And if you're going to, why engage a monologue that sets a very non-humor atmosphere. Comedy is about context and mood. That is why you have folk whose job it is to get the audience in the mood and receptive before main acts come on stage. She's a pro. Just seems pretty improbable that if her claim is true, she'd respond in this manner.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Asyndeta on October 28, 2011, 05:55:41 am
Okay.

Now this has happened, the only way this comic will be salvageable is if this scene ends with May excusing herself to somewhere private after the show's over and immediately start freaking out through sheer panic - revealing that it was Shy!May all along and it took every last ounce of her fortitude to not fall apart on stage and refuse to give her saboteurs the satisfaction of victory.  I would love to see that.

What makes me think that this isn't a fake-out is...well, I did kinda call this (http://flipside.keenspot.com/forum/index.php?topic=446.0) eighteen months ago.  Maytag's 'shy' personality and 'jester' personality have been growing more and more similar almost since the beginning of Book One.  We've already seen her perfectly able to assume Jester May's personality without the suit.  Remember this scene with Fata Morgana? (http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=907)  That was 2009.

My problem - besides everything Shazam mentioned - is that if this isn't a fake-out, if May really has been pretending to have two personalities, then that is it for her as a character.  No weaknesses, no vulnerabilities, no flaws - nothing that she ever actually pays for, that gets in her way or affects her relationship with other characters for the worse.  She was already careering towards Mary Sue territory as it is but this is ridiculous.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Brion Foulke on October 28, 2011, 11:09:50 am
No weaknesses, no vulnerabilities, no flaws - nothing that she ever actually pays for, that gets in her way or affects her relationship with other characters for the worse.

I'll just say this... in the next chapter, you'll quickly see that this statement is very wrong.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Hans on October 28, 2011, 01:35:46 pm
As already said before, how is she trying to win a comedy/jester contest with this story? There has to be a good punch line coming now.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Abstract Vagabond on October 28, 2011, 01:40:08 pm
Okay.

Now this has happened, the only way this comic will be salvageable is if this scene ends with May excusing herself to somewhere private after the show's over and immediately start freaking out through sheer panic - revealing that it was Shy!May all along and it took every last ounce of her fortitude to not fall apart on stage and refuse to give her saboteurs the satisfaction of victory.  I would love to see that.

What makes me think that this isn't a fake-out is...well, I did kinda call this (http://flipside.keenspot.com/forum/index.php?topic=446.0) eighteen months ago.  Maytag's 'shy' personality and 'jester' personality have been growing more and more similar almost since the beginning of Book One.  We've already seen her perfectly able to assume Jester May's personality without the suit.  Remember this scene with Fata Morgana? (http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=907)  That was 2009.

My problem - besides everything Shazam mentioned - is that if this isn't a fake-out, if May really has been pretending to have two personalities, then that is it for her as a character.  No weaknesses, no vulnerabilities, no flaws - nothing that she ever actually pays for, that gets in her way or affects her relationship with other characters for the worse.  She was already careering towards Mary Sue territory as it is but this is ridiculous.

And you don't consider playing friends for fools a flaw? If she's pretending to have two personalities, then who's the real Maytag? It's like she's become a complete stranger again and how well do you think that will go with Crest, Susperia and others? That she couldn't trust them enough to be honest with them?
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Kiran on October 28, 2011, 02:07:05 pm
Exactly.

Now as reader I learned that May I know from start was someone else, or rather like she said all was an act.
So from where we should know what was real in her behaviour and what not?
Do her behaviour around Bern is real or an act?
Did her act around Crest in beginning chapters were too just an act?

I'm kinda confused now to say the least, her jester side and her shy side are all just an act and in reality she's just a very confident person  by nature, so that mean her sexual behaviour is her genuine trait, or just crazy jester act?

Still I think her love for Bern is genuine, or at least I hope now that Bern is that only person who knows about true May, if not, then well Bern should just tie the knot with Polly and forget about May.

No weaknesses, no vulnerabilities, no flaws - nothing that she ever actually pays for, that gets in her way or affects her relationship with other characters for the worse.

I'll just say this... in the next chapter, you'll quickly see that this statement is very wrong.
I hope so that someone from this group will react to this somehow.
Still as others I can't understand the reason why May tells all this now to them all.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Asyndeta on October 28, 2011, 02:15:54 pm
I'll just say this... in the next chapter, you'll quickly see that this statement is very wrong.

Well, up to this point it's been entirely correct, but I really do hope things change.  I've been waiting for over a year to see Maytag actually face the consequences of her shortcomings and maybe even grow as a character.  You've been really kind of reluctant to let that happen so far and the comic has been suffering for it; the rest of the cast can only make up for so much.

And you don't consider playing friends for fools a flaw? If she's pretending to have two personalities, then who's the real Maytag? It's like she's become a complete stranger again and how well do you think that will go with Crest, Susperia and others? That she couldn't trust them enough to be honest with them?

It's only a true character flaw if she's facing real, quantifiable consequences for it.  If that's coming soon then I welcome it, but up until now?  There has never been a point in Book One where her negative traits and the consequences of having those traits have been fully explored.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: akashayi on October 28, 2011, 08:41:10 pm
Wait. What? After all these years, is that true? o.O
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Brion Foulke on October 29, 2011, 09:04:09 pm
Well, up to this point it's been entirely correct, but I really do hope things change.  I've been waiting for over a year to see Maytag actually face the consequences of her shortcomings and maybe even grow as a character.  You've been really kind of reluctant to let that happen so far and the comic has been suffering for it; the rest of the cast can only make up for so much.

Well for one thing, her shortcomings are not easily defined.  What is considered "growing" is a matter of opinion, but you can't say she hasn't changed since the beginning of the comic.

There has never been a point in Book One where her negative traits and the consequences of having those traits have been fully explored.

Fully exploring something takes time.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Enkida on October 30, 2011, 03:36:53 pm
Just stopping by to comment on Maytag's exposition.

While I, as a reader, find it great to hear her explain about her split personality issue, I cannot, for the life of me, imagine that she is holding the audience captive with this story.  No, really, they came there for standup comedy and they get an eyeful and her baring her soul.  Considering the audience I am wondering why nobody is catcalling "why don't you bare your boobs again instead of your soul" or such like that.

That being said, I find the storyline about Bernadette keeping secrets from Maytag to be very interesting.  I think she's going to get her proverbial ass kicked about it eventually when Maytag finds out, and am looking forward to that.  Don't get me wrong, I like Bernadette, she's my favourite character in this comic.  But she has been - and does need to do more - growing out of the downsides of her at times puritan paladin mentality.

... plus that spiky hair chick is hot.   :-*
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Shay on October 30, 2011, 05:43:21 pm
At the very least I don't think Bernadette knows either. Firstly, she probably isn't the 'one other person' May mentioned, because she isn't actually there and the ring probably isn't turned on.

Secondly, May and Bern have kept many secrets from each other before. And I can't imagine Maytag approaching Bern after a few years and going, "Hey Bern, by the way, my entire personality for the past few years has been an act. I've been lying to you and everyone else constantly. Yeah. You still love me, right?"

Thirdly, there's a moment in Book Zero where Bern tells May to not put on her suit before she goes out on the town. If Bern knew about May's act, that comment would have been pointless. (However, May could have told Bern later, like in the six month gap between Book Zero and Book One).
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Azure Priest on October 31, 2011, 06:10:14 am
I think Moss is the "one person" because his "Curse" forces him to see ALL a person's weaknesses. He even saw the entire "daddy love" that first girl he met went through.

Yeah, I don't think this performance is about giggles anymore. I think it's about shaming her mentors, and "poisoning the well" for all future auditioners. (Who incidentally are prime suspects for sabotaging her act.) She will never go so low as to sabotage another person's act, but that won't stop her from "ruining the atmosphere." Comedy is an exercise in futility if the audience is depressed and emotionally scarred.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: SAGG on October 31, 2011, 03:16:57 pm
You know, concerning the 10/31 comic, for a second there, it looked as if Maytag had briefly bitten her microphone, or whatever it's called...  ;D
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Brekkjern on October 31, 2011, 07:10:25 pm
I can't really remember the competition being about standup comedy or jesters. If I remember correctly, it was about the best entertainer. And an entertainer is many things and I know there are many serious, entertaining radio shows around.

Just going to throw that out there.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Kiran on October 31, 2011, 11:56:03 pm
So for who else May become a total stranger?

I will hold waiting for next page to see May big reasons behind this.

If Bern doesn't know about this, then personally it's even worse than all this cheating May did behind Bern back.

I could see May doing it specially for Bern so she as a knight person would have a shy May to protect...
But that would be low.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Brillig on November 02, 2011, 03:06:51 am
@Brekkjern

You make a good point, and have helped me see what she's doing in a better light =)

As to May becoming a stranger, I don't think she has changed at all. She has simply revealed that she is both personalities she has been putting on. Just because they are acts doesn't mean they aren't a part of who she is. I still have no reason as to why she would do this, but I'm sure it will become clear soon. Have faith in our master lobster friend!  ;-D
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Azure Priest on November 02, 2011, 06:43:05 am
It's... IT'S HIM! The guy who exploded the "pactio" neckband! Shepperd was it?
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Kiran on November 02, 2011, 11:20:30 am
"I want to be liked!"

A bit anticlimatic?

So she's a person who choose different personality for different people so they would care for her/like her?

So maybe she's faking it for Bern to so Bern would have a girl to protect?

Still as in many posts before, I have no idea why she thought this was a good moment to share this info with.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Abstract Vagabond on November 02, 2011, 11:43:12 am
"I want to be liked!"

A bit anticlimatic?

So she's a person who choose different personality for different people so they would care for her/like her?

So maybe she's faking it for Bern to so Bern would have a girl to protect?

Still as in many posts before, I have no idea why she thought this was a good moment to share this info with.

My guess is that by knowing why her costume was sabotage, she likely knew who did it. Not wanting to give them any satisfaction in their deed, she used what was likely her only remaining card left to retaliate with. Had the sabotage happened before she went on stage like the attempt was planned to go, she may have not used it and probably had time to conjure up another idea.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Enkida on November 03, 2011, 01:35:53 am
After seeing the big secret, I tend to agree with Asyndeta.

I still think the comic has great art and is fun to read because of the large cast of "minor" characters who are very well written.  But Maytag is becoming a part of the comic I sigh at and suffer through until I can learn about what happens to everyone else.

To be fair, professional Japanese mangaka do this sort of thing with their main characters all the time, too.  I just don't like reading it in licensed manga either, though.    ;)
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Andrea on November 03, 2011, 05:35:01 am
She's definitely not skilled as an entertainer
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: ducky_worshiper on November 03, 2011, 06:26:20 am
Yeah... I have to admit that "I have been portraying 2 completely different personalities, whether or not it made sense or was dangerous for myself or others at the time, for several years cuz OHMIGAWSH I WANT PEOPLE TO LIKE ME" is stretching it a bit far for me =/

May's becoming less and less interesting, which is sad to me because originally she and Bern (and their relationship) was why I started reading this comic years ago because I was interested to see how the nuances of their personalities would be handled.  

Edit - Also wanted to say that either way I'm holding out hope because, to be fair, there were other points in the story that frustrated me but ultimately came to ok conclusions, so I keep hoping that Brion will salvage this in a way that I have yet to think of.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Brion Foulke on November 03, 2011, 02:38:33 pm
Yeah... I have to admit that "I have been portraying 2 completely different personalities, whether or not it made sense or was dangerous for myself or others at the time,

When was it ever dangerous to others?
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Andrea on November 03, 2011, 06:20:44 pm
Well the main character doesn't need to be liked as they aren't usually.
Who likes Goku for example? Or who likes Seya? Or who likes Ken from HNK? :)

Go go Suspiria! <3
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Enkida on November 04, 2011, 01:53:06 am
When was it ever dangerous to others?

I would say chapter 2 page 43 and onwards.  Although it would be more interesting if she didn't take initiative without her costume because she really didn't care about Crest getting punched and Orransong getting stabbed.  But that doesn't seem in character for what we've learned of Maytag, the girl who can rescue anybody from any situation at the mere cost of her own health, either.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Azure Priest on November 04, 2011, 07:55:30 am
Still... waiting... for ... other .... shoe... to... drop.

Oh wait, May's no longer wearing shoes!

Guess she won't be winning that show, and she won't be getting one either unless her mentors realize what dicks they were.

HAHAHAA! NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: ducky_worshiper on November 04, 2011, 08:00:05 am
When was it ever dangerous to others?

I would say chapter 2 page 43 and onwards.  Although it would be more interesting if she didn't take initiative without her costume because she really didn't care about Crest getting punched and Orransong getting stabbed.  But that doesn't seem in character for what we've learned of Maytag, the girl who can rescue anybody from any situation at the mere cost of her own health, either.

This scene is the one that pops immediately to mind; however, I'd honestly have to reread the archives to answer this (something I won't have time to do until my weekend).

That being said, the guy in the last panel claiming "Good show!" bothers me.  Maybe, *maybe*, for someone who has already shown interest in, and has a history with, Maytag it could be somewhat interesting (as it is for the readers), but looking at it objectively...  If I were some random person who went to a bar/club/whatever to see an entertainer contest, this just wouldn't be entertaining.  I agree that the rules never said "funny" specifically, but I would just be sitting there going "um, wtf just happened? This is stupid/weird..."  I'm really confused as to how she intends to win based off of "Teehee strangers I like to pretend I'm shy so people like me ^_^"
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Brion Foulke on November 04, 2011, 09:32:12 am
I would say chapter 2 page 43 and onwards.  Although it would be more interesting if she didn't take initiative without her costume because she really didn't care about Crest getting punched and Orransong getting stabbed.  But that doesn't seem in character for what we've learned of Maytag, the girl who can rescue anybody from any situation at the mere cost of her own health, either.

But what could she have actually done to help Crest in that situation?   It's already shown that there's nothing much she can do to attack Voulger directly.  What would she have accomplished by not acting shy?

Instead, wouldn't it be better for her to pretend to be embarrased and weak so that she could attack Voulger when his guard was down?
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: Brion Foulke on November 04, 2011, 10:31:37 am
If you're paying attention, you may have noticed that we've seen Maytag break character out of costume before.  In particular, in the flashback starting at chapter 11 page 18, there is nothing shy about the way Maytag is acting.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: contreras on November 08, 2011, 11:21:38 am
Still as in many posts before, I have no idea why she thought this was a good moment to share this info with.

my theory is that she felt outwitted by the "prank" so she needed something strong intelectually to counter attack

plus, bernadette is not there to overreact so it's a pretty good time to make the confession
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: TheCycoONE on November 09, 2011, 10:03:38 am
That being said, the guy in the last panel claiming "Good show!" bothers me.  Maybe, *maybe*, for someone who has already shown interest in, and has a history with, Maytag it could be somewhat interesting (as it is for the readers), but looking at it objectively...  If I were some random person who went to a bar/club/whatever to see an entertainer contest, this just wouldn't be entertaining.  I agree that the rules never said "funny" specifically, but I would just be sitting there going "um, wtf just happened? This is stupid/weird..."  I'm really confused as to how she intends to win based off of "Teehee strangers I like to pretend I'm shy so people like me ^_^"

Guy in the last panel knows her.  At least I think it's the same guy has been stalking her since: http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=315.  Assuming it is the same guy he's more interested in character development than crude comedy.

As for the crowd in general, if they end up liking it we can assume that Brian didn't show us her entire show and after the reveal she went on to make a bunch of really funny jokes.
Title: Re: Chapter 30: Discussion
Post by: danzig on December 05, 2011, 08:37:55 am
So Maytag just lost the competition for going into half an hour of boring exposition in the middle of a comedy routine, right?

Looks like their plan worked out after all!