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Comics Discussion => Flipside Discussion => Topic started by: Brion Foulke on January 12, 2011, 12:36:13 pm

Title: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: Brion Foulke on January 12, 2011, 12:36:13 pm
This is a thread for discussing Chapter 28.
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: charles on January 12, 2011, 01:33:33 pm
HELL YEAH!

I've ordered book 5 and woken up to see this terrific image of Maytag in full Jester Suit action on the cover.  She looks awesome!

Seems like some Gambling is due.  A pack of cards and that uniform is probably all she's got left with her posessions missing... I'm still half expecting that potion of posession made from her spirit essence to be used against her at some point... We'll see.

Also looking forward to seeing the other costume getting designed for her, no matter how outlandish it might be.  *PMSL* They need to get one designed for Crest *LOL*
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: FyreFennec on January 12, 2011, 03:53:05 pm
Mwee! Maytag's so cool. I love the latest cover. I think it's my favorite so far.
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: Brion Foulke on January 12, 2011, 06:28:21 pm
Just wait till it's colored!
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: charles on January 15, 2011, 10:14:56 pm
Man you do some fantastic Backgrounds Brion.  A new town of wonder like Eschelon has just been beautiful for showing off the skills there and seeing some fasinating, fantastical images.
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: Brion Foulke on January 16, 2011, 12:54:30 am
Thank you very much.  One of the problems with trying to move a story along fast is that you need a lot of transitions because of quick scene changes.  Which means you need to draw a lot of backgrounds.  I just finished penciling next Friday's page and it's very background heavy also, so it took awhile.

I'm glad that they're turning out well, though... (I'm also glad that you didn't notice how the perspective in page 2 doesn't really make sense.  There should not be a tower that high... but luckily I don't think that's the kind of thing most people will notice.)
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: charles on January 16, 2011, 05:06:54 am
I just figured it was a magick tower that sat on top of another rock and had a portal leading to a building far below.
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: Hans on January 16, 2011, 03:18:18 pm
I'm glad that they're turning out well, though... (I'm also glad that you didn't notice how the perspective in page 2 doesn't really make sense.  There should not be a tower that high... but luckily I don't think that's the kind of thing most people will notice.)
So, yo have a city on a floating rock, with more floating constructions above it and are bothered by the laws of physics for the hight of a tower?
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: Azure Priest on January 16, 2011, 06:55:13 pm
I'm glad that they're turning out well, though... (I'm also glad that you didn't notice how the perspective in page 2 doesn't really make sense.  There should not be a tower that high... but luckily I don't think that's the kind of thing most people will notice.)
So, yo have a city on a floating rock, with more floating constructions above it and are bothered by the laws of physics for the hight of a tower?
Not the laws of physics, but perhaps how rareified the air is up there.
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: Brion Foulke on January 16, 2011, 08:31:20 pm
It's not a physics issue, it's just a simple perspective mistake.  The tower is drawn to look much higher than it could actually be, that's all.  It's supposed to be the tower on top of the dorms where Suspiria lives, so it's not supposed to be as high as the actual university, which should be the tallest building of the island.
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: charles on January 17, 2011, 01:34:43 pm
Awwww, but she can still wear the suit on air!  *lol* nah, I see what Crest is getting at. Her direct audience for the live performances.

I wonder how Showgrams make money... Advertising, donations?  Maybe there's actually a special subscription with those earings, like pay $6 to get one which will tune in for a month or something. *thinks* that would be 1,440,000 a year for Glyph's showgram.

I've changed my mind. Its going to be harder for Melter to pull of the kidnapping if Maytag becomes popular and well known.  Her kidnapping would attract a significant amount of attention from a city thats probably full of the most powerful magick users.
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: Smiles on January 24, 2011, 01:06:16 am
hmm intriguing as usual Brion. she can't get a show... wonder how this is going to go. i do like her new outfit though  ^_^ :-* it's nice to see Crest getting more involved with what's going on again.
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: Blue Dragon on January 24, 2011, 03:31:07 am
I agree with smiles--I like Crest, and he hasn't been seen much lately. Looking forward to more with him :)

Wow! Turned down for the show...it's probably cause she's steal all the fans! That's gonna be my guess. Too much competition for the others ;)
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: Ryuu on January 24, 2011, 07:24:54 am
i get the feeling that she hasn't been turned down, but that there is another issue, i'm expecting a "but" on the next page.
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: RoninAngel on January 24, 2011, 08:23:31 pm
Exciting! I can't wait to learn more about the plot!  :D
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: charles on January 25, 2011, 02:46:16 am
They handed out a lot of the earings for free to get a starter audience?

I still reckon thats the money maker though.  Someone makes the earings with a limited amount of charge, in some way that can't be replicated, and they sell them.

I'd think Maytag's best option would be to try and come in on the tail end of their existing show or as a lead in.  Already established audience and all they have to do is keep listening into the same channel.

But the title of the chapter gives me the impression that Maytag will be taking some kind of gamble to get going with her show that'll have slim odds of success.
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: Azure Priest on January 26, 2011, 06:21:12 am
Wait. So how exactly do sound stones work again? You have to get a second pair to broadcast to that someone? You can't just broadcast to any other pair you like? Sounds like a radio star using one way walkie-talkies.
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: Oddball on January 26, 2011, 07:56:48 am
so is May's dream of having her own show at an end or will she take up gambling again?
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: RoninAngel on January 26, 2011, 11:25:57 am
ONE MEEEEEEEELIOOOON GOLD!  :P
I love Maytag's reaction.
That's one advantage we have over the inhabitants of Iscariot. It's really expensive to host a podcast in a fantasy world.  :P
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: Brion Foulke on January 26, 2011, 12:35:28 pm
Wait. So how exactly do sound stones work again? You have to get a second pair to broadcast to that someone? You can't just broadcast to any other pair you like? Sounds like a radio star using one way walkie-talkies.

Yes, soundstones aren't like radios.  They have to be enchanted to pick up sound from a specific source.
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: Hans on January 26, 2011, 03:34:15 pm
So they set up a rather big (for their world) broadcasting network and have the only sender. The reaonable thing to do would be to sell time to peoplo who want to use that sender.
Would make them from a single show to a broadcasting company, but anyway that's where they invested the money.
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: RoninAngel on January 26, 2011, 11:05:51 pm
But they went into business to be "radio" personalities. But not "radio" producers. As a group, they may not be willing to do the work that requires.

I say "radio" for lack of better term. :P
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: Churba on January 27, 2011, 01:44:06 am
But they went into business to be "radio" personalities. But not "radio" producers. As a group, they may not be willing to do the work that requires.

I say "radio" for lack of better term. :P
From Experience, I can't blame them - There is a reason the main talent is often separate from the production side, and the production side is hard work. I was co-host on our show, and yet, it was definitely the quietest, because the whole time you have to be doing 15 things at once, as well as actively listening to the sound, watching the clock, AND participating in the discussion.
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: Blue Dragon on January 27, 2011, 06:25:06 am
So what's costing so much with these stones? The enchantments, the materials needed for the earing, or what?

Also, they should get a patent on their invention, before someone tries to steal it :P
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: Brion Foulke on January 27, 2011, 08:09:31 am
The enchantments.
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: Oddball on January 27, 2011, 09:19:44 am
I'm sure radio shack has a few  :P
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: RoninAngel on January 28, 2011, 03:26:16 am
Not looking good for Maytag's new dream.  :(

But she's not this easily discouraged. We'll wait and see what comes out of it...
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: Hans on January 28, 2011, 06:21:03 am
But they went into business to be "radio" personalities. But not "radio" producers. As a group, they may not be willing to do the work that requires.
They don't need to be producers to sell time on their microphone equivalent. They can sell to producers.
Still needs a lot of work, but I'm suprised that nobody has done this before and each show is building up it's very own network.
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: Azure Priest on January 28, 2011, 04:48:40 pm
@Brion:

Still loving the comic.  That said, small grammatical error today.  Each has "its" own (id est, without apostrophe).  Just in the interest of the comic... ^.^  I couldn't remember if there was a separate thread for this kind of thing so if I missed it, let me know.

Yes, there's the bold "MISTAKE THREAD." Found in the forums, in the same sub category where you found "Chapter 28: Discussion."
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: Yahappynow on January 30, 2011, 01:21:42 pm
@Brion:

Still loving the comic.  That said, small grammatical error today.  Each has "its" own (id est, without apostrophe).  Just in the interest of the comic... ^.^  I couldn't remember if there was a separate thread for this kind of thing so if I missed it, let me know.

Yes, there's the bold "MISTAKE THREAD." Found in the forums, in the same sub category where you found "Chapter 28: Discussion."

Thanks
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: RoninAngel on January 31, 2011, 02:52:52 pm
Wow! Maytag doesn't like that one bit! I wonder what she'll do...  :-\
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: Ryuu on February 01, 2011, 06:18:51 pm
i agree with the selling out time thing, the sounds stones are basically radio recievers that can only recieve one radio station, most radio stations have more than one show on them
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: Blackwolf359 on February 02, 2011, 08:12:48 pm
Maytag really isn't going to be deterred easily...
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: Ryuu on February 03, 2011, 10:02:28 am
i know what you mean, i'm jus wondering how long this 'arc' is gona last, cause i mean if she gets a radio show she will be stuck where she is (unless the recording stuff is portable, but something like those sound stones seems to me that they would have a range)  which would put a crimp in the whole "quest to find the anti-magic magic sword" thing
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: Oddball on February 04, 2011, 11:45:54 pm
Ah but on the other hand May/Bern could but out an appeal for the missing sword(s) instead of searching for them.
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: Pwncho on February 05, 2011, 01:31:45 am
Well I never have anything constructive to say...and I'm not about to start now so.

"page 11 cleavage."

That is all.
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: Blue Dragon on February 06, 2011, 06:48:56 am
^Ha ha! I noticed, that, too. Here eyes are very well done in the same panel :P

Curious just how they're going to come up with the money for all this. But also, I wonder if this type of attention will help to quell May's desire for multi-sexual partners. I guess I need to put that in a different way. I wonder if doing this will help fill the void of not having sex with other people. Maybe it'll be a better way for her to work through that frustration, since she's trying to be monogamous for Bern.

Or who knows, maybe all the publicity, assuming the show gets popular (which it probably will), will simply make more temptation for May?
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: RoninAngel on February 09, 2011, 07:39:53 am
Cute.

More reason to ship Crest and Suspira.

I like how Suspira is willing to help Crest train because she sees that it's important to him.
That's the best reason to help someone. Because you can tell it's important to them.
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: RoninAngel on February 09, 2011, 07:44:09 am
^Ha ha! I noticed, that, too. Here eyes are very well done in the same panel :P

Curious just how they're going to come up with the money for all this. But also, I wonder if this type of attention will help to quell May's desire for multi-sexual partners. I guess I need to put that in a different way. I wonder if doing this will help fill the void of not having sex with other people. Maybe it'll be a better way for her to work through that frustration, since she's trying to be monogamous for Bern.

Or who knows, maybe all the publicity, assuming the show gets popular (which it probably will), will simply make more temptation for May?

They're adventures. Adventures are always able to find huge amounts of funds.
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: parameciumkid on February 09, 2011, 08:30:06 am
Dude, Crest is about to get banged.
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: Oddball on February 09, 2011, 10:21:36 am
HEHEHEHEHEHE crest is about to get duffed up  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: vintage on February 09, 2011, 11:25:56 am
Crest appears to be left-handed. ^^
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: RoninAngel on February 11, 2011, 08:27:56 am
Crest fell down! That's funny!   :P
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: Ryuu on February 11, 2011, 09:02:32 am
crest earned hisself a bitchslap
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: RoninAngel on February 11, 2011, 12:49:56 pm
Sometimes it's the simple things in life.  :P
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: Azure Priest on February 12, 2011, 01:50:38 am
And so the "trainer" goes "well, at least he knows how to take a punch."
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: April on February 14, 2011, 04:58:44 am
So, how come Maytag can't just rent out of soundstones for a few hours a week?  Surely it would be cheaper than having to buy all the soundstones, and it would come with an already huge audience.  Right now it's as if Car Talk had its own frequency, and This American Life had its own frequency, and Prairie Home Companion had its own frequency, instead of scheduling shows one after another.
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: Brion Foulke on February 14, 2011, 08:52:46 am
Not sure what you mean by renting soundstones, that doesn't make sense.  You mean rent a soundbox that is already tied to a bunch of stones?  Like the one Glyph is already using?
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: Churba on February 14, 2011, 09:00:13 am
Not sure what you mean by renting soundstones, that doesn't make sense.  You mean rent a soundbox that is already tied to a bunch of stones?  Like the one Glyph is already using?
I think that's what was meant, yes.
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: Brion Foulke on February 14, 2011, 10:53:51 am
It's a good solution as long as Glyph and the others don't mind letting them use it, and Maytag doesn't mind being tied down to the location where Glyph lives.
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: Churba on February 14, 2011, 10:55:55 am
It's a good solution as long as Glyph and the others don't mind letting them use it, and Maytag doesn't mind being tied down to the location where Glyph lives.
Well, really, that wouldn't make it terribly different to an actual radio station - They're usually a shared space, and you end up tied down to a single location - and if some of the producers and techs I know are anything to go by, they do pretty much live there.
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: RoninAngel on February 16, 2011, 01:00:50 pm
I like watching Maytag play poker. It's so sexy. Possibly the most sexy thing she does in the comic. She's so confident and at the same time cheerful.  :-*
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: Ryuu on February 16, 2011, 07:41:09 pm
It's a good solution as long as Glyph and the others don't mind letting them use it, and Maytag doesn't mind being tied down to the location where Glyph lives.
couldn't she like tie a single soundstone into a soundbox and then use that as a relay through glyph's soundbox?
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: Brion Foulke on February 17, 2011, 09:53:48 am
She probably could, yeah.
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: RoninAngel on February 17, 2011, 08:45:19 pm
This scene is so intense. And this Galdur fellow is quite cute! I can't wait to see how this turns out!  :-[
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: Blackest_Eyes on February 18, 2011, 02:27:27 am
This is not very smart of Maytag. She was told the guy is a good player, why try to play a big pot against him? There are apparently a lot worse players at the table, play pots with them you crazy girl! ;)
It'll be a pretty short scene if she gets called though, so I wonder...
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: dg86 on February 18, 2011, 04:46:14 am
Aaaaaaaand...he's a telepath.  Call.  GFG GTFO Kthxnore.
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: Ryuu on February 18, 2011, 05:14:54 am
i'm kinda inclined to reckon she looses the pot, but then they let her bet something else and she wins it all back
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: Oddball on February 18, 2011, 05:23:05 am
Could this turn into strip poker?  ;D
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: Ryuu on February 18, 2011, 05:31:44 am
that TOTTALY flashed through my mind
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: parameciumkid on February 18, 2011, 08:08:00 am
No, Maytag, it is you who has the medium-sized pair. ;D
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: Azure Priest on February 18, 2011, 09:34:07 am
that TOTTALY flashed through my mind
Hehehe! Good Pun. Maytag just got played by a card shark. He LET her win the first hand, and is now going to win the last.
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: Ryuu on February 18, 2011, 10:55:17 am
I dobt may is bad enough to get sharked that easy
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: RoninAngel on February 18, 2011, 01:50:42 pm
Well this is all compressed time. Brion has to show that this guy is better then Maytag, but he can't waste time re-establishing that Maytag is also good. (If that is indeed Brion's plan for this scene.) It can be very tricky to make a scene like this without coming off as a Bag of Spilling.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BagOfSpilling

I also agree that Maytag will probably lose this pot, but then win it back. And Galdur is attractive, so I have a feeling that some kind of fanservice might be involved as well...  ;)
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: Brion Foulke on February 18, 2011, 02:20:41 pm
It can be very tricky to make a scene like this without coming off as a Bag of Spilling.

The closest to "Bag of Spilling" would have been when Maytag lost her dimension bag a few chapters ago.  Since the money she's playing with now it borrowed, it's not the same thing even if she loses it.
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: Alcapter on February 19, 2011, 02:06:58 pm
dont know why but i have a bad feeling Maytag is gonna lose this one.
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: SAGG on February 19, 2011, 02:50:26 pm
dont know why but i have a bad feeling Maytag is gonna lose this one.

I find myself concurring...   :-[
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: Ryuu on February 19, 2011, 02:53:48 pm
it's the way it's written, makes it quite clear that this hand is important, therefore, she looses
(the whole all in thing kinda makes it important too, but the way it is written is more so, i would expect her to loose this hand even if she hadn't have gone all in)
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: charles on February 20, 2011, 04:49:40 am
Telepath was the first thing I thought of as well, but they'd have pretty intense magick detectors there, so you'd think they could pick up on something like that, particularly in a town like Eschelon.

Something doesn't feel right here, but it could just as easily be that the guy really is good and Maytags met her match.

Maytag is confident, impulsive and impatient.  Its likely that she would seek the biggest poker game so she could get the money as fast as possible with the presumption that she'd come out on top.  If she truly hasn't met her match in many years, as she indicates, then there's no reason for her not to hit the high-roller's tables.

It was $1,000 buy in.  But she borrowed $3,000 from Glyph, so provided she didn't buy in over that amount, she can buy back in at least twice before she's cleaned out.
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: charles on February 21, 2011, 01:40:42 am
OUCH! Called her.

I note that he opened both eyes. I wonder if that has something to do with it.

Other option is that he could see something past her poker face, maybe spotting a tell, or maybe he took a chance so he could confirm a tell for the future.  If he's spotted something, then she's done for until she can figure out what he's worked out.
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: Eversist on February 21, 2011, 04:14:00 am
Well, didn't she bet the rest of her chips anyway? So she's out of money, and out.

The only way that she's not outta there is if he's bluffing, too. Right? My poker knowledge is spotty.

Edit: Ohhhh. So she has $2,000 still?
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: Oddball on February 21, 2011, 04:56:48 am
May was all in meaning she put in all of her money
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: Azure Priest on February 21, 2011, 05:40:08 am
Ok, I'm no poker expert, but he only has one pair (king). Wouldn't Maytag just need "three of a kind" to beat him? We haven't seen her hand, but she shouldn't need aces to beat a pair, unless the rules for this table are a bit odd.
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: Yeti on February 21, 2011, 07:22:25 am
Ok, I'm no poker expert, but he only has one pair (king). Wouldn't Maytag just need "three of a kind" to beat him? We haven't seen her hand, but she shouldn't need aces to beat a pair, unless the rules for this table are a bit odd.

The only hole cards we know of is May's ace. They both have the pair of kings so those are essentially cancelled out - which is why she's announced ace high. Her other card has not hit the board and will likely prove an insignificant kicker. If as she predicted he has a medium pocket pair then he's won it. If he has just one of his cards paired then he has it. The chances of May having won the pot here are.. well non-existant really unless the fellow is trying to gift her chips.
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: Ryuu on February 21, 2011, 08:50:39 am
can't say that came as a surprise
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: vintage on February 21, 2011, 09:41:03 am
It seems like he has probably cheated in some way to beat Maytag. I hope that's not the case, I would have preferred it that if he beat her he did it using skill alone.
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: Brion Foulke on February 21, 2011, 11:35:31 am
Maytag does still have 2000 gold left at this point, since she only bought in for 1000.  In a normal poker game, you aren't allowed to put more chips on the table in the middle of a hand.

They both share the pair of kings so the kings do sort of "cancel out," unless one of them had a smaller 2 pair in which case the kings would counterfit that two pair.  (So if someone had 8's and 3's, the 3's would be counterfitted by the Kings and they would instead have King's and 8's.)  Maytag announces "ace high" because she only has the kings on the board, so essentially all she has is an Ace kicker.  If Galdur has any pair other than the Kings, he wins.

Also, if any of you have watched poker on TV before, you may be more used to watching tournaments.  This game is a cash game, which means the blinds don't raise, which means there's no hurry to win all the money.  So in this sort of game, a large bet on the river is normally a much bigger deal, and almost always means a very strong hand.  Although at the high levels of internet poker, everyone plays aggressively all the time, so you never know.

And yes, those are anti-cheating devices in the room.  I'll just go ahead and tell you that there isn't any cheating going on in this game, just so you know.
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: Alcapter on February 21, 2011, 12:57:57 pm
Quote
And yes, those are anti-cheating devices in the room.  I'll just go ahead and tell you that there isn't any cheating going on in this game, just so you know.
shoot, and i was betting that the guy is cursed/gifted with the future telling ability (like he can see the future with his right eye when its closed), so he could behave differently and change th future :P,

...

or maybe that is stupid :P
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: Brion Foulke on February 21, 2011, 01:40:07 pm
I'm pretty sure I would never have any time traveling/reading abilities in Flipside just because I don't believe it makes sense for time to be a tangible thing.  So one of the limitations on magic in the Flipside universe would be that magic can't in any way effect time.
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: charles on February 21, 2011, 03:55:20 pm
Some of them play it as more of a guesswork type of thing.  So you're seeing the possibilities of the future based on what your magick can pick up about present and past events but the further forward you go, the more possibilities you're dealing with and the wilder the probabilities get based on the predictions and presumptions the magick needs to make on what the factors are doing.

You fire a gun and its fairly easy to predict what the bullet will be doing when its a metre away from the gun because you're not looking to far forward from the moment of shooting.  But try and predict what it'll be doing 500 metres from the gun and it gets harder as gravity becomes more of a factor together with wind resistance, breezes, temperatures, moisture and obstacles between the gun and 500 metres away, not to mention the chance of the bullet tumbling as it looses velocity.  Certainly, there are many computer models that could calculate it with some accuracy based on the data, but its still only a estimate, even for the short time it would take the bullet to travel that distance, since its working on all the factors as it believes they will exist at the time of the shooting.

In this case, our poker guru would have to use magick to see back through time on a player's previous games and playing style to compile a good prediction of what Maytag might do beyond what she's presented at the current table game.  But it would have to be done before the game so you go into it with more knowledge but no enchantment.  Otherwise its likely that some kind of viewing magick like that which can pick up the details from a long time ago could be used to simply see the cards as Maytag picked them up only a few moments ago.  Another, probably easier, method would be to read Maytag's memories somehow, or obtain her previously read memories from whoever has them to know all she remembers about her own playing style.
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: RoninAngel on February 21, 2011, 10:18:32 pm
Isn't good poker playing essentially playing your hands correctly, then staying alert to your opponent as best you can and only bluffing occasionally and when you need to? Seems like bluffing too much would screw up your ability just play your cards when you have good ones.

"3 kings? I'll guess I'll pretend that I have nothing and fold if anyone calls!"  ::) Doesn't make any sense to me.

EDIT: And Maytag's big red eyes in panel 7 are adorable!
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: Brion Foulke on February 21, 2011, 11:12:20 pm
Isn't good poker playing essentially playing your hands correctly, then staying alert to your opponent as best you can and only bluffing occasionally and when you need to?

That's the ideal way to play against amateurs, yes.

But at the very high levels of play, players are extremely aggressive and bluff all the time.  "Balance" becomes extremely important, which basically means that for any given action, you want to bluff about the same amount as you make value bets, otherwise you will be too predictable.  If you simply play your cards, your opponents will always know what you have and will destroy you.
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: Brion Foulke on February 22, 2011, 02:36:14 pm
shoot, and i was betting that the guy is cursed/gifted with the future telling ability (like he can see the future with his right eye when its closed), so he could behave differently and change th future :P,

Oh, I forgot something!  Actually, it's already mentioned in the comic that time travel magic is impossible:

http://www.flipsidecomics.com/comic.php?i=870 (http://www.flipsidecomics.com/comic.php?i=870)
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: Ryuu on February 22, 2011, 05:38:29 pm
the thing is, that chaos theory does allow, to a certain extent the future to be predicted, if he could somehow understand the momentary status of every particle of matter int hat room, he could predict the future with a reasonable degree of acuracy

if we had a computer powerfull enough, and where able to program the exact state of every single atom in the universe into it, we could predict the future with 100% accuracy (of corse, a computer large enough to store that data and perform calculations on it would be many times the size of the universe!(unless it was hyper dense, it would still however take more matter than there is in the universe))
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: Brion Foulke on February 22, 2011, 05:43:27 pm
That's true, but at that point you're requiring computers to be near-omniscient, and I don't know if such a thing is even possible, let alone achievable.

As far as magic is concerned, I think that in order for such a thing to be possible, a person's power would have to be at a near-god level.
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: Ryuu on February 22, 2011, 06:42:18 pm
tbh, he wouldn't even need to know that much to know what cards may has
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: Brion Foulke on February 22, 2011, 06:53:00 pm
But if it's just about knowing her cards, there's no need for "predicting the future" magic, he simply needs clairvoyance.
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: Ryuu on February 22, 2011, 08:37:45 pm
true, i kinda shot myself in the foot there, i was merely making the point that it would be possible to know the future, not that it would be practical in this situation
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: charles on February 23, 2011, 12:42:00 am
WOW! He bet on sixes!  She could have had higher pocket pairs, the Kings or possibly even have paired with the eight on the Turn or tripsed the three or two with pocket pairs.

I actually like the idea that Maytag might not be the greatest player in all of Iscariot.  She can still earn money here, from the others, but she'll have to remain weary of this guy or he'll clean her out of it again.  It could even be a tactic of his to make good players wary of pulling a big bluff on him so they play meekly against him... I suspect Maytag would go the opposite way and match his aggressive stance to fight through... Maybe she'll even gime him another Hero Call to appear more prone then buy back in the third time and lure him into a third one while she has a good hand.
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: vintage on February 23, 2011, 07:40:21 am
Her shock is very, very apparent and makes me wonder if she's exaggerating to lead him into a false sense of security.
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: CrystalDragonSpaceMarine on February 23, 2011, 12:29:03 pm
This is the most intense the comic has ever been.


By the way, I never thought cheating on Galdur's part. I just took him as the type to make random shots for the hell of it, on top his regular card playing skills.

The "hero call" as the other guy calls it.
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: Ryuu on February 23, 2011, 05:22:49 pm
Her shock is very, very apparent and makes me wonder if she's exaggerating to lead him into a false sense of security.
i concur, i just can't imagine her reacting like that, specially not during a poker game
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: charles on February 25, 2011, 01:57:45 am
OUCH! She really did get played out.

Again, I like this.  It make's Maytag's Poker skill just that little bit more human.  She's bloody good, but she's not the best.  I wonder if this will make her give up or loose interest in the persuit... I wonder how she'll pay Glyph back... Maybe they'll still work out the whole time-share thing and get to using Glyph's device as if he was a radio station broadcasting multiple shows *shrug*.
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: SAGG on February 25, 2011, 06:15:55 am
I'm sorry, but even though there's no cheating (as what Brion posted), something still doesn't seem quite right here. Maytag's a better poker player than that. I cannot believe her defeat was so overwhelming and yes, humiliating like that.  ???
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: dg86 on February 25, 2011, 08:44:22 am
Of course something's not right.  Hence the wink wink.
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: Ryuu on February 25, 2011, 08:46:11 am
where did the second of those aces in front of may come from?
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: Oddball on February 25, 2011, 09:44:57 am
Marked cards? or he changed his hand?
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: SAGG on February 25, 2011, 12:01:21 pm
Recall: Brion specifically posted that there was no cheating.  ;D Thing is, though, something's still wrong. So what's up?  ???
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: Oddball on February 25, 2011, 12:08:57 pm
May lost on purpose? to make herself look as a easy mark?
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: Blackwolf359 on February 25, 2011, 12:26:38 pm
The hell?!?! Maytag lost? O.o Is that even possible? I insist on an replay in slow motion! I'm sure I must have missed something!
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: Brion Foulke on February 25, 2011, 02:18:29 pm
where did the second of those aces in front of may come from?

There's meant to be a transition between this page and the last, if you go back and look at the bottom right corner of page 21.  So this is a different hand, where Maytag had 2 aces and Galdur had 2 jacks, but he happened to get 3 jacks to win.  In other words, I'm not showing any of the other hands, I'm skipping to the end of the game where she loses the last of her money.

As for why specifically Maytag lost, it's gonna be explained in the next couple of pages, don't worry.
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: Ryuu on February 25, 2011, 06:41:42 pm
ah ok, i missed the transition on the prev page lol
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: RoninAngel on February 27, 2011, 09:36:57 pm
Poor May.  :(
Oh God, I want to cry now.  :( :( :(
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: Ryuu on February 28, 2011, 12:10:30 am
let them out, no shame in crying in this situation
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: RoninAngel on February 28, 2011, 02:48:11 am
Well looks like things are looking up. Galdur is maybe helping Maytag get better at the game?
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: Azure Priest on February 28, 2011, 05:31:21 am
Hang on, how could there be 5 jacks in play? Unless the decks are VERY different in the Flipside world, or this game consists of multiple decks shuffled together, there's only supposed to be 4 of a single rank. For example, jack of spades, hearts, diamonds and clubs.

So how could May have two jacks while Galdur has three?
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: dg86 on February 28, 2011, 05:32:44 am
LOL still can't get over the hero call.  What about the other two buy-ins?  Seems her poker skills are quickly starting to look like an informed ability.
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: Blackest_Eyes on February 28, 2011, 06:24:19 am
Hang on, how could there be 5 jacks in play? Unless the decks are VERY different in the Flipside world, or this game consists of multiple decks shuffled together, there's only supposed to be 4 of a single rank. For example, jack of spades, hearts, diamonds and clubs.

So how could May have two jacks while Galdur has three?

There is one Jack on the board, two in Galdur's hand, so he has three jacks. May just plays the pair of aces in her hand.
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: Brion Foulke on February 28, 2011, 12:13:57 pm
Hang on, how could there be 5 jacks in play? Unless the decks are VERY different in the Flipside world, or this game consists of multiple decks shuffled together, there's only supposed to be 4 of a single rank. For example, jack of spades, hearts, diamonds and clubs.

So how could May have two jacks while Galdur has three?

Where do you get the idea that May has 2 Jacks?  Isn't it clear from the picture that she has 2 aces?
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: jasonred79 on March 01, 2011, 05:32:37 am
When you get right down to it, Maytag may be good, but at the end of the day, she's still a casual/ amatuer player. She basically plays for FUN, not for a LIVING.
Now, I dunno about you guys, but IMHO, there's usually quite a big strength gap between the amatuers and the pros. So, it seems pretty "correct" to me for Maytag to get cocky and challenge the best player around and get beaten. Plus, AFAIK, the really really good players who do it for a living will gravitate towards the big money and not really spend all their time gambling in the poorer towns. So, it's quite logical that up to now, Maytag has only been facing players of a certain calibre, and the really REALLY good players haven't bumped into her until now.

Also, frankly, Maytag is being far too cocky and prideful, which just goes to show how she's a real amatuer/ casual player.
Just now, she was playing on BORROWED MONEY, in order to try to make enough money to achieve her goal (soundstones).
A PROFESIONAL player would choose the richest, weakest opponents possible. Their goal here would be to MAKE MONEY.
Maytag? Er. She sets out to prove that she's the best there is. And goes all or nothing against the best player in town.
In the real world, even the best poker player in the world knows that he can have a bad night and can EASILY lose against the 2nd or 3rd best player.

Also... what was Maytag's plan, originally?  Challenging the best player in town is NOT a good way to make money. If you lose, you lose. If you actually beat him, you suddenly gain a reputation, and now none of the marks will play against you. If you're a good player and new in town, far better to play among the idle rich who have money to burn, play badly, and don't mind losing money to a beautiful woman.

So, in conclusion, it looks to me as if Maytag actually has some insidious plan going, and this whole thing is not about a poker game at all... hmm. Pretty expensive way to use 3000 gold though. I hope her plan is worth it.

Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: RoninAngel on March 01, 2011, 09:32:16 am
Yeah, swindling rich suckers might be the best way to make money, but how fun would it be to watch?
This way, May gets to meet a handsome stranger and gets some character development. Watching her con fat tourists all day might be practical and effective or advance the plot, but it would probably be excruciating to read about.

You have to see this in the context of the story. It's more dramatic this way. And notice how May learning how to be a better poker player from this fellow sort-of mirrors Crest's training to become a better sword fighter? That's probably on purpose.
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: Brion Foulke on March 01, 2011, 10:23:03 am
Maytag? Er. She sets out to prove that she's the best there is. And goes all or nothing against the best player in town.  In the real world, even the best poker player in the world knows that he can have a bad night and can EASILY lose against the 2nd or 3rd best player.

Yeah, you're right that part of it is she's cocky.  But the other part is that's the biggest game in town... Maytag doesn't have any other options if she wants to make that money fast, and even at the big game she can only buy in for 1,000, it would've taken her awhile to turn that into 25,000.  And that's just the minimum that she needs.

And also, I would say that Maytag is quite a bit better than an amateur at poker.  She's actually quite talented at reading people, and against even many good players she would come out on top.  (That's why I have Galdur complimenting her on the current page, it's not an empty compliment.)  It's just a case of there's always someone better.  The vast majority of players would have folded those 6's.
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: 9_6 on March 02, 2011, 01:34:03 am
I have no idea what that means but I'm sure it raises mays power level by at least 90.
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: jasonred79 on March 02, 2011, 03:29:48 am
I have no idea what that means but I'm sure it raises mays power level by at least 90.
So, how long before it's OVER 9000!!!!

... sorry, couldn't resist. :)


Anyhow, even if Maytag "had to" play the biggest game in town, there's 5 players on her table, so that's 3 other players for her to fleece. From the looks of it, she seems to be the first one to get knocked out, so I am under the impression that she went head to head with Galdur the whole time? Or maybe she's just the most aggresive player on the table. Mmm.

BTW, May needed to turn the 3k into 28k, cause she has to pay back that 3000. Speaking of which, wonder how she's going to pay him back now... very interesting turn in the storyline. Will galdur not only be willing to take her under his wing, but to essentially pay her to be his apprentice? ... mmm...

I'm also curious as to how strong the other players on their table were. If they play against Galdur week after week, they are either almost as good as him, or just have deep enough pockets that they don't mind losing money to him every single time? hmm. Anyhow, I really got the impression that Maytag stepped into that game thinking she was the best player on the table, whereas she was actually the weakest. Well, maybe weakest is the wrong word. Most reckless? Stubborn? well, anyway, as for how good a poker player May is, there's a lot more to being a good player than being able to read people. At the end of the day, results matter, and her result is that she's in serious debt and having to rely on the compassion of friends and strangers. I guess I'm also a bit prejudiced, because I have heard of acquaintances who think they're good gamblers and borrow money and lose it all, and hope to make it all back in one big killing etc etc. Which is also why, if Galdur gives Maytag back her money, I will feel as if she's getting off too lightly. Sure, may just wanted to make enough money to achieve her dreams through gambling. But at the end of the day, who doesn't? I guess I just feel the resemblance to many people who've destroyed their lives through gambling problems and seeing may like this makes me feel a little uncomfortable... ... I know it's only a comic, but IRL, if one of my friends had just lost a huge amount of borrowed money gambling, and someone came up to them and said "no no, you're actually very talented, you should keep on playing", I would probably punch them in the face. Or at least freak out. And again, I have to remind myself this is just a comic, in anticipation of what's coming next: I get the nasty feeling that the comic is going to deliver the anti-public service annoncement of "How do you get out of large gambling debts? The solution is to borrow even more money and try to make it all back at the gambling tables!"

Suddenly occured to me the "normal" way that young attractive women have to pay back gambling debts. I don't think that's going to happen in this case though. Too much drama.
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: Brion Foulke on March 02, 2011, 10:30:32 am
Anyhow, even if Maytag "had to" play the biggest game in town, there's 5 players on her table, so that's 3 other players for her to fleece. From the looks of it, she seems to be the first one to get knocked out, so I am under the impression that she went head to head with Galdur the whole time? Or maybe she's just the most aggresive player on the table. Mmm.

She didn't have to play it, but if she wants to make such large amounts of money quickly it's the only alternative.  And also it's not a tournament, it's a cash game, so no one gets "knocked out," players can buy back in as much as they want, and leave whenever they feel like it.  There's obviously a lot more of the game I didn't show, so you can just assume she played with the other players as well.

Well, maybe I should have put (a few hours later...) in a narration box just so that people wouldn't have this misconception...

Which is also why, if Galdur gives Maytag back her money, I will feel as if she's getting off too lightly.

Don't worry.  If the end result was going to be no change, I wouldn't have bothered with the poker game.  She will not get that money back the easy way.
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: jasonred79 on March 02, 2011, 10:56:54 am
No, I get that it was a few hours later. What I'm wondering is whether the other players were losing as heavily as Maytag or whether they were managing to keep their losses down. Did the other players get wiped out and have to buy back in multiple times, or was Maytag the big loser for the night? Or did the other players just have much much deeper pockets than Maytag?

Well, I guess I'm the only person on the forums who was wondering all this... I guess the other readers just concentrate on Maytag and Galdur and sort of ignore the other 3 players on the table... hmm. For that matter, I'm quite interested in how the place works. Did they change dealer partway? At one point I see some dude in a suit and wig acting as dealer, and at another point some lady in a black dress seems to be dealing the cards. Or am I mistaken?
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: Brion Foulke on March 02, 2011, 11:11:43 am
What I'm wondering is whether the other players were losing as heavily as Maytag or whether they were managing to keep their losses down. Did the other players get wiped out and have to buy back in multiple times, or was Maytag the big loser for the night? Or did the other players just have much much deeper pockets than Maytag?

That's the sort of thing I need to leave to your imagination, but one thing I'll say is that considering this it the biggest game in town, it's reasonable to assume most of the players have deep pockets.
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: charles on March 03, 2011, 01:53:25 pm
Brion's post count is mesmerising.

Yeah, cash game.  It could easily be a game thats been going non-stop for months or even years.  Dealers rotate and take shifts, players come and go, etc.

As Brion said, they have deep pockets in a game like that.  The other players are probably regulars who play a bit more cautiously around Gladur due to his reputation.  Maytag, on the other hand, is the kind of person who goes for the full attack.  She's too competitive to let it go and not test her skill to find a way to crack him.

"Once I set my mind to something, I do it. And I never crack." (http://flipside.keenspot.com/comic.php?i=348)
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: Hans on March 07, 2011, 12:39:23 pm
Why has May to tell Bern that Prostitution is a noble profession? IIRC Bernadette grew up in a brothel, so she should have a first hand view on how noble or not the prostitutes in Flipsideworld are.
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: Pwncho on March 07, 2011, 02:23:20 pm
Entrepreneurship in a noble profession?

I wouldn't mind in the slightest ;)

Besides, it's only a little dabble.
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: Furcas on March 07, 2011, 09:15:56 pm
Even the best poker player in the world wants to get in Maytag's pants. That's how popular Maytag's pants are!

Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: Furcas on March 07, 2011, 10:03:27 pm
By the way Brion, I absolutely love the way you drew Maytag's face in the next-to-last panel. So awesome!

Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: MaronaPossessed on March 09, 2011, 12:35:56 pm
Lol the letter in the last panel...I swear I saw the phrase "Fuck Fuck Fuck" on the bottom of the paper
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: Ryuu on March 09, 2011, 12:59:04 pm
i wanna know what the botom of that letter actually says XD
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: FyreFennec on March 09, 2011, 02:11:00 pm
A jester contest?  Awesome!   :-*

I wanna know what the contest is going to consist of now.  ;D
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: RoninAngel on March 09, 2011, 04:50:07 pm
I love how happy Crest was to have his ass kicked. It makes me think he is learning important things and getting good exercise. It's also cool with the poster. I wonder though. Maytag said she wanted to distance herself from her career as a jester. I hope she doesn't resent the implications of Crest trying to get her to get back into it. Especially because it seems like such a great opportunity.
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: Schwarzer Ritter on March 10, 2011, 09:51:48 am
Am I the only one who just heared Ackbars voice shouting "It's a trap!" in his head?
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: Ryuu on March 10, 2011, 12:00:19 pm
it does seem a lil... suspicious...
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: Kanazaka on March 10, 2011, 06:44:43 pm
I'm very curious to see how Maytag will entertain her audience, if she indeed decides to enter the contest.  No matter what, it should be fun to see  :).
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: charles on March 11, 2011, 02:10:30 am
I'm certainly thinking "Trap"

This mob sounds like the idea we were bouncing around for Glyph's program though, where you get a number of shows onto the one soundstone network.  Could compete effectively if they get a line of good entertainers and this competition pays off with getting them going.

I like the idea that he's seen a healer and still looks beat up.  I guess the advantage of healers on hand means that you can afford to get much more physical in training with the knowledge that you'll be fixed up afterwards.  Crest has tended towards absorbing damage for others so if he gets good at beinga meat shield by learning to take more damage then that seems positive.

... I still think he needs a shield and to learn how to use it. :P
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: charles on March 11, 2011, 03:05:03 am
Does it say something about hating tomatoes in the fine print? *shrug*
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: Furcas on March 11, 2011, 11:03:56 pm
Brion asked:
"So this chapter's almost over... what do you all think of the choice I made with it?"


I think you did the right thing. The poker stuff was interesting.



By the way, I don't really like Maytag's current outfit, the previous ones were sexier.

Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: Brion Foulke on March 12, 2011, 12:25:40 am
^Yeah, I like version 2 better as well, although I think the current version is better than version 1.  But anyway, even if this isn't the best version, it's important to keep changing things up!  There will be a 4th version at some point, too.
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: Ryuu on March 12, 2011, 02:55:06 am
i think you have done very well at balancing the speech with the images
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: charles on March 13, 2011, 04:17:46 am
^Yeah, I like version 2 better as well, although I think the current version is better than version 1.  But anyway, even if this isn't the best version, it's important to keep changing things up!  There will be a 4th version at some point, too.
Oh yeah, I nearly forgot about Moby's costume.  Maybe it won't be Version 4, but I'm still looking forward to it.  Heck, Maybe she could have a couple and switch between them as the mood suits her *shrug*.
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: Zarth on March 13, 2011, 10:14:52 am
Looking forward to Maytag's show.
I just love wondering what the Druid jokes could be like.
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: FyreFennec on March 14, 2011, 11:37:35 am
I'm very curious to see how Maytag will entertain her audience, if she indeed decides to enter the contest.  No matter what, it should be fun to see  :).

I VOTE PIE THROWING.

Seriously, a story about a jester and 54 Chapters in not a single pie has been thrown. WHAT'S UP WITH THAT?  :P
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: Kiran on March 16, 2011, 05:56:05 am
I think pie act is more for a clown than jester ;)

Finally read whole chapter and I like how the story seems to be splitting into three-way direction, one Crest and his training and problems with it, May future honest work(I woul be really curious if May would manage to secure a normal job where she would not use her body or poker/jester skills, would be kinda fun to see May in it trying, I still love the most how May looks as normal girl in that cover of chapter 8) or maybe she will try the contest to manage to earn enough money, and Bern finally going to other city to find her father(maybe with Venice as a companion and guide).

For sure it will be interesting to follow.
Title: Re: Chapter 28: Discussion
Post by: charles on March 16, 2011, 02:59:30 pm
WOW! Very nice twist at the end there.  Now they're stuck with what to do since Bern needs to travel even further to find her father and Maytag has a dream career opportunity ahead of her.  Never can catch a break these two but its all test of their relationship I guess.

I wonder what Crest will do since he's effectively under Bernadette's charge but obviously wants to stick around in Eschelon for the training he's getting now and probably Suspira... Guess he can follow and still get training from Bern and Suspira can come with them too if she wishes... Not sure about a member of the Phalanx going to Marvollo though.

Here's an idea.  SEND A BLOODY MESSAGE TO HIM! *lol* Seriously though, if it was a long few weeks to get here it'll probably bee a good couple of months before they make it to marvollo the old fashioned way... Unless Bern buys a horse which is doubtful since I seem to recall that Brion hates drawing them  :P ::)