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Comics Discussion => Flipside Discussion => Topic started by: Brion Foulke on July 06, 2010, 12:36:40 pm

Title: Intermission 18: Discussion
Post by: Brion Foulke on July 06, 2010, 12:36:40 pm
This is the thread for discussing intermission 18. 

4 conventions this month... get ready for a long intermission!
Title: Re: Intermission 18: Discussion
Post by: akashayi on July 07, 2010, 10:14:34 pm
GASP

Fata and Brion are one and the same?!
Title: Re: Intermission 18: Discussion
Post by: charles on July 08, 2010, 08:15:38 pm
There is no Brion  :P
Title: Re: Intermission 18: Discussion
Post by: akashayi on July 09, 2010, 11:05:46 am
I'd sleep with someone before doing the truffle shuffle :P
Title: Re: Intermission 18: Discussion
Post by: charles on July 12, 2010, 07:36:20 am
and they were doin' the truffle shuffle
our Maytag and the Moss man
doin' the truffle shuffle
in the middle of the warp box

Only Churba will get the joke  ::)
Title: Re: Intermission 18: Discussion
Post by: Oddball on July 14, 2010, 09:22:22 am
I hope Bern drops a skip full of bricks on Moss...........no TWO skips of bricks.  I have never seen the sixth sense and now he has ruined it for me!!  :o :o >:(
Title: Re: Intermission 18: Discussion
Post by: Churba on July 14, 2010, 09:32:39 am
and they were doin' the truffle shuffle
our Maytag and the Moss man
doin' the truffle shuffle
in the middle of the warp box

Only Churba will get the joke  ::)
;D ;D
Title: Re: Intermission 18: Discussion
Post by: akashayi on July 17, 2010, 07:00:26 pm
<.<

squish squish squish
Title: Re: Intermission 18: Discussion
Post by: RoninAngel on July 26, 2010, 08:22:59 am
Clearly all this stuff is created by Fata. And Moss' trail is was an illusion/ room in the warp box.
I know I'm supposed to feel sorry for Moss, but I still think he's a dick.
Title: Re: Intermission 18: Discussion
Post by: charles on July 27, 2010, 07:29:40 pm
hmmmm, I wonder what weakness he sees when he looks at Fata's illusion of Maytag.  Could tip him off if he's paying close enought attention, but I suspect he's panicked.
Title: Re: Intermission 18: Discussion
Post by: charles on July 28, 2010, 08:54:28 pm
Looks like this Dark Cell place really attacks a person's mental concious.

I'd imagine Moss and Fata would make the perfect team for testing candidates with his ability to see someone's weakness and her illusions.  Sure she might be able to guess at a person's fears or weakness, but Moss can obviously see a person's very core weakness.

I'm guessing that part of the reason they left with Maytag is that they plan to have her enter this Dark Cell for their own purposes.
Title: Re: Intermission 18: Discussion
Post by: RoninAngel on July 28, 2010, 09:47:05 pm
I called that shit like a bad boyfriend doesn't, bitches!  8)

Also, I don't care about this storyline. I could care less about Moss. It would take a whole lot of pet the dog or charisma more charisma then fucking Marven Gaye for me to want anything other then torture, death and/or humiliation for the old Mosster.

Sorry for that I'm just really feeling bitchy today. Been ff my pills for like 3 days now.
Title: Re: Intermission 18: Discussion
Post by: CrystalDragonSpaceMarine on July 28, 2010, 10:59:07 pm
I like Moss.

I mean, he's no Gin Ichimaru, but he's still a sweet character in my book.
Title: Re: Intermission 18: Discussion
Post by: charles on July 28, 2010, 11:31:40 pm
I wonder what it means to fail Morgana's "tests" since we've only seen Maytag tested.

I guess Moss is probably going to fail since they would have otherwise used him.

Its interesting to note that despite not having Moss's ability, she was able to work out his weakness from his memories but I guess either he knew it in his memories or she just read the whole part where Maytag worked it out.

Fata Immediately had his supposed friends turn on him with Danzig handing him over to Authorities and Maytag becoming his torturer.
Title: Re: Intermission 18: Discussion
Post by: CrystalDragonSpaceMarine on July 28, 2010, 11:33:15 pm
Well, he "cheated" so to speak, with his curse, so maybe he didn't get the "full" test.
Title: Re: Intermission 18: Discussion
Post by: charles on July 29, 2010, 02:52:21 pm
You could argue that anyone who simply sees through Fata's illusion is cheating since they're not undergoing the full test but rather seeing it for what it is, so in that sense Maytag didn't pass the test either.

If you go into this Dark Cell knowing that it's going to test you with non-existent situations like Fata does, then its possible that you could ignore all it does to you and get through.  I suspect that when they really enter Dark Cell, we'll see it pull one of those things where it makes you believe you've passed and then destroys you.

Sort of like that episode of Angel where they had to remove his soul so the souless Angelos could tell them how to kill some demon.  The guy got ready to do it and then pulled a weapon and tried to kill him but failed.  They ended up figuring out another way to kill the demon and succeeding. Angel's son came to love him and Cordelia also expressed her love and then made love to him which gave him a moment of true happiness, causing him to loose his soul and suddenly we were back in the room with the guy removing his soul, discovering that it was all a dream to make him believe his curse had broken and he'd lost his soul.
Title: Re: Intermission 18: Discussion
Post by: RoninAngel on July 30, 2010, 11:08:56 am
I like Moss.

I mean, he's no Gin Ichimaru, but he's still a sweet character in my book.

Are you refering to Samurai Champloo? I love that show!

And if that's the Gin Jin Mugen you mean, I think that's a jerkass character done right. If your going to make a character who does unsympathetic things and is unpleasant to be around you can go one of two ways to make him watchable you can make him a pathetic figure of scorn like George Costanza from Sinfeild, or Zap Branagin from Futurama or you can make him a sick badass like Belkar in Order of the Stick or Gin Jin Mugen from Samurai Champloo. In the first type, the character is frequently the source of his own anguish (so your sense of justice is appeased) and at times you feel pity for his in-ability to get his act together and become a decent human being. In the other, the character is so cool that you forgive him for occasional dips into sociopathy.  :-\

To me Moss fails in both respects, he's not intelligent, talented, brave or intresting enough to be a badass, and he's not pathetic enough to be a jerkass woobie, although he's still pretty pathetic. He just is. Obnoxious.  >:(

Edit: Oops I really meant "Mugen".  :-[
Title: Re: Intermission 18: Discussion
Post by: CrystalDragonSpaceMarine on July 31, 2010, 02:15:53 am
Are you refering to Samurai Champloo? I love that show!

I meant Gin from Bleach, who is a total snake, and yet still my favorite character.

There's no "Gin" in SamChamp. There's a Jin, but he's not a jackass (Mugen on the other hand, slightly is).

Quote
To me Moss fails in both respects, he's not intelligent, talented, brave or intresting enough to be a badass, and he's not pathetic enough to be a jerkass woobie, a though he's still pretty pathetic. He just is. Obnoxious.  >:(

Though I will admit, Moss could use some better showings (though this short bit seems to be a nice bit of character development, I hope it's theme continues in the main comic), as far as making him more sympathetic and understandable.
Title: Re: Intermission 18: Discussion
Post by: RoninAngel on July 31, 2010, 10:13:21 am
Yeah I meant Mugen. I guess I get him and Jin Confused.   :-[
I'll fix it.  :D
Title: Re: Intermission 18: Discussion
Post by: charles on August 01, 2010, 11:26:35 pm
Well... We first knew Moss as pretty much a Jerk-ass who showed himself to be a badguy.  Now he's been switched to semi-goodguy, working with our main characters, but still with his old attitude.  In the end, we haven't seen him in this role for very long yet so I'm happy to wait and see where it takes us.

Its easily possible that his intentions are still anything but good, in which case you just have to realise that he's a bad-guy among the good-guys waiting to strike.  Both Belkar and Mugen are generally considered part of the good-guy team and not someone who's likely to be making evil plots for some future betrayal.

Maybe Vegeta is a better comparison to Moss.  It wasn't until much later that his character merged in better with the good guys and he developed from a 2d jerk-ass character to much more of a 3d man dealing with his pride.
Title: Re: Intermission 18: Discussion
Post by: charles on August 02, 2010, 03:36:09 am
WOW! I just noticed for the first time that Maytag is in her OLD jester suit.  Excellent work Brion. It didn't even occur to me at first that she should be wearing it instead.

So how is it drawing the old suit?
Title: Re: Intermission 18: Discussion
Post by: RoninAngel on August 02, 2010, 10:07:31 pm
Hrmmmm.

I've already said my peace about Moss.
Can't wait for the next story.
Title: Re: Intermission 18: Discussion
Post by: akashayi on August 03, 2010, 03:30:05 am
I keep thinking it's a lot like the tests in neverwhere, if anyone has ever read that.

And Moss / Fata make a good combo with their respective talents as it is, test or no. Starting to respect that short little conversation we saw them have earlier when we first saw Moss again, where Moss mentioned her weakness and grinned. Interesting.
Title: Re: Intermission 18: Discussion
Post by: RoninAngel on August 04, 2010, 01:35:12 pm
Hmmm. So we find out what fata really looks like. That's intresting. She doesn't seem that bad actually. The marks remind me of tatoos I like tatooed girls.
Title: Re: Intermission 18: Discussion
Post by: tbeean on August 04, 2010, 02:36:28 pm
Should've seen that coming, with how Bloody Mary looks and everything.
But I was still surprised.
Title: Re: Intermission 18: Discussion
Post by: Xshu on August 04, 2010, 03:11:12 pm
Did this page strike anyone else as strangely corny? The punctuation of "NOOOOO...!!!!" really confused me. I have an idea of what Brion's getting at when he punctuates something with "...!" but this is pushing the boundaries of my imagination. How do you scream something and be apprehensively shocked by it at the same time? If you're screaming a word, it doesn't make sense to have ellipses at the end of the sentence. It's the same thing with "STOP LOOKING...!!!"

I don't know, it just really broke the immersion when I had no idea how she was supposed to be saying that word. I can get on-board with the multiple exclamation marks, and even the ellipses followed by more punctuation, but this just confused me. I have no idea how she's speaking right now.
Title: Re: Intermission 18: Discussion
Post by: charles on August 04, 2010, 08:20:42 pm
Its panic.

NOOOOO
pause in stricken panic
STOP LOOKING
pause in realisation that you've just been MOSSED!!!

haha, yeah. Hate Moss all you like but I actually like how he's managed to crack Fata here in return.  I kind of figured she probably had some self image issues with all the illusion stuff.  I don't know if the strange marks all over her are necessarily the same as Bloody Mary's.  When Bloody Mary was initially released she didn't have any marks on her.  The marks were scars from all her injuries and she gained them over time as more and more people tried to stop her.

But it might make sense with what Moss said ages ago about how the source of her weakness was that she's never done anything to others that she hasn't done to herself.  Quite possibly she tortures her own body out of spite for it or something and the weird marks are scars *shrug*.
Title: Re: Intermission 18: Discussion
Post by: RoninAngel on August 06, 2010, 09:18:36 pm
Real Fata gives me a boner.  :-[
She's like a nakeder, sexier Bloody Mary.  :-*
It's too bad she has body issues, cause she is one fine girl.  :-*
Title: Re: Intermission 18: Discussion
Post by: Kiran on August 07, 2010, 02:59:29 am
Wow, Fata looks kind of adorable with these puffy lips :-*
And her and Moss would make a good pair, one can see people weakness while other can exploit it with her illusion, and both would have fun with the result in the end by messing with people heads.
I wonder if Moss will tell Fata he prefers her original body.
I like this side story so far.
Title: Re: Intermission 18: Discussion
Post by: akashayi on August 07, 2010, 08:01:54 pm
Wow, Fata looks kind of adorable with these puffy lips :-*
And her and Moss would make a good pair, one can see people weakness while other can exploit it with her illusion, and both would have fun with the result in the end by messing with people heads.
I wonder if Moss will tell Fata he prefers her original body.
I like this side story so far.

that's what I think moss will do.

but I think it'd be interesting if they had crazy maytag-illusion sex. >.>
Title: Re: Intermission 18: Discussion
Post by: charles on August 08, 2010, 10:55:45 pm
I dunno... Moss supporting or uplifting someone?

Then again, maybe Moss just like's people's "ugly side" better.  I guess he would have some understanding for her considering the trouble he's made to hide the appearance of his eyes.

Heck, we don't even know why Fata Morgana is working for the Thin Man yet.  I'm a little doubtful she would be doing it for all this "truth of the world" stuff.  I can only guess there was a promise to alter her real, physical appearance or something.

Also... Is Fata Morgana black?  I'm just wondering about those puffy lips where were commonly used to depict southern African Americans in old Warner Bro's cartoons.
Title: Re: Intermission 18: Discussion
Post by: RoninAngel on August 09, 2010, 07:43:23 am
"Southern African Americans"? Isn't that a little too generous?
If your talking about the same cartoons I'm thinking of, Horrifingly Racially Insensitive Characatures might be alittle more accurate.  ;)

Also, I think her full lips are sexy. And they make her look more distinctive. My family all has full lips, and we're of French-Spanish and French-Polish-English descent.
Title: Re: Intermission 18: Discussion
Post by: akashayi on August 09, 2010, 11:06:41 am
I'm guessing, looking at those scars, Fata was another experiment of the Thin Man's.
Title: Re: Intermission 18: Discussion
Post by: charles on August 09, 2010, 06:24:23 pm
Hard to say.  Clarion had her asphixia to allow her inbuilt abilities.  Bloody Mary's marks were scars from healing wounds she gained after the Thin Man changed her.  Only her claws and eyes (maybe teeth) were physically different.

http://www.flipsidecomics.com/comic.php?i=678

I never quite know what to think about the prejudice behind those old Warner Bro characatures.  I mean, sure it was prejudice as a good portion of white America was back in that day, but at the same time it was also accurate to an extent.  Lets face it, they do have bigger lips while white people tend to have much more narrow ones, but due to the whole issue of prejudice you can't depict them like that any more but for me its like trying to depict a grown woman with a man's chest and no hips.  Cartoons need to pull the characature format a bit to correctly display then in the simple cartoon forms that people can easily recognize.

As for the way they acted and the format they were presented in, it was obviously an over-exageration of their manner, heavily leaning towards the stereotypical Southern South American, but so to is Yosemite Sam an exageration of either Southern White Americans or Wild West ones running around and shooting into the air, getting easily angry or insulted, etc.

...But yeah, I like her puffy lips *shrug*
Title: Re: Intermission 18: Discussion
Post by: RoninAngel on August 09, 2010, 10:36:54 pm
I don't mind the full lips so much as the fact that the lips are a lighter colour then the rest of their skin. In real life, all the black people I've met have a similar or darker colour lips then the rest of their body, just like white people. I think it's ugly and unrealistic is why it bugs me.

Also full lips are not exclusive to black people, Charles.  ;)
Title: Re: Intermission 18: Discussion
Post by: CrystalDragonSpaceMarine on August 10, 2010, 12:12:02 am
Hmmm. So we find out what fata really looks like. That's intresting. She doesn't seem that bad actually. The marks remind me of tatoos I like tatooed girls.

Admittedly, it is horrifically tough to draw ugly people in anime style without making them look ridiculous.

I dunno... Moss supporting or uplifting someone?

Being supportive and uplifting can be an excellent manipulation tool.

I never quite know what to think about the prejudice behind those old Warner Bro characatures.  I mean, sure it was prejudice as a good portion of white America was back in that day, but at the same time it was also accurate to an extent.  Lets face it, they do have bigger lips while white people tend to have much more narrow ones, but due to the whole issue of prejudice you can't depict them like that any more but for me its like trying to depict a grown woman with a man's chest and no hips.  Cartoons need to pull the characature format a bit to correctly display then in the simple cartoon forms that people can easily recognize.

There's a difference, though.

Take a look:

(http://www.animepwns.com/afro_samurai.jpg)

Afro Samurai. His features make him look obviously black, but not ridiculously exaggerated.

Now, blackface:
(http://theangryblackwoman.files.wordpress.com/2007/08/drawnminstrel2.jpg)

In your analogy of depicting a woman, this example is making them look like Eiken (http://i.neoseeker.com/mgv/152409-Kilik%2064/409/53/eiken.jpg) and saying "Hey, real women have tits, that's what they look like".

There’s a difference between highlighting features for caricature or for a cartoony style, and then there’s exaggerating those feature to highlight their foreign nature as something to be ridiculed and denigrated.
Title: Re: Intermission 18: Discussion
Post by: Azure Priest on August 10, 2010, 06:01:21 am
awww, I do believe Fata has a crush on Moss.
Title: Re: Intermission 18: Discussion
Post by: RoninAngel on August 10, 2010, 08:53:20 am
Yeah, it's certainly a pet the dog for Fata, but I don't know if it's one for Moss...
I like Fata. I hope we can see her super cute true form again soon.  :-*
Title: Re: Intermission 18: Discussion
Post by: charles on August 10, 2010, 09:22:07 pm
@CDSM: yes but those are two VERY different animation formats.  Afro Samuri is obviously supposed to be a much more realistic style despite still leaning to some mild characature while the other format is incredibly simple and exagerates these features much more.

You're comparing a detailed format of Japanese anime to a very simplistic American Cartoon format where the characters have only three fingers and are generally less realistic even than the Tezuka style of Japanese Animation.

Although if we do look at Tezuka's style applied to African Americans, we see than even that tends to put some emphasis on larger lips as opposed to almost any other character who simply has a line for their close mouth and no discolouration around it to suggest lips.

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_NR48UcL2XMI/S5CdUBb6ZPI/AAAAAAAABMQ/SE0_ebkMEjg/s400/Afro_Boy_II_by_OvejaNegra77.jpg)(http://discover-indo.tierranet.com/images%20japan/Astroboy001w.jpg)
Title: Re: Intermission 18: Discussion
Post by: dorne on August 17, 2010, 02:38:39 pm
I'm intrigued by the relationship between Fata Morgana and Moss. One
can create illusions well, while the other can see the the weaknesses of
others involuntarily. Calling her by her true appearance, "a short ugly
girl, with bushy black hair and scars all over her body" Moss reveals to
Fata the few things she has kept secret from most people: herself. She
really does bear it all. Despite the way Moss says her weakness, he has no malice in his words, and only speaks the truth in that he can see her true self.
 
She transformed to Maytag in the intermission as her way of trying to use
her illusions to help someone else. "For you." This is possibly the first time I have seen Fata help someone gratefully.
 
There is also the deal with emotions, in which Fata states that the
incident with her and Moss she hadn't felt that much emotion in a long
time. Compare that to what she said earlier with Maytag, in which she
states that she is asexual, with no emotion on sexual acts. What she may
be looking for is not eros love, but a different love altogether.
 
Right now I have no reason to think that Fata will turn against Moss any time soon. Moss can read weaknesses, but he can't read minds, so anything is possible I suppose.
 
Also "Faytag" is hot in an innocent sort of way when she's doing using the illusion for Moss. Especially panels one and two in comic 1022.  :-*